Tankless Hot Water

[ijusluvit]

TECO Gas sent me the FREE tankless water heater notice.

You only pay for installation: "less than $46 per month for 18 months" ($848). That's not an unreasonable installation fee, especially if all hookups, including electrical, are done. The Rannai unit they install will be worth at least $600-700 and will be sufficient for homes like ours with only two people. Since my house is ten years old, it won't be long before I have to spend at least $600 installing a new hot water tank. With a tankless system there would be a savings on my gas bill, and maybe more for me because I'm not always in town. When I'm gone I turn my tank down, but never off.

As I mull this over I think of a two potential issues: 1) The increased cost of water used while waiting for hot water, and 2) The increased inconvenience of the wait. I don't have a water recirculating system so I have to wait for hot water now. Increasing that time would become an issue.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has converted to a tankless system. I'd like to know if it takes considerably longer to obtain hot water with a tankless system, and I'd love to hear the results if anyone has been able to compare the additional water costs with the gas savings.

[Ooper]

If you are replacing you existing hot water tank with a tankless, why would it take a longer wait for your hot water? I would assume that your tankless will be in the same proximitry of your existing tank to utilize the exisitng plumbing and electrics so the wait should be the same. The hot water exiting from the tankless is almost instantaneous as soon as you turn your faucet on and a flow is established.

[pooh]

There are pros and cons to tankless water heaters. Here's a couple of links for you to read....

Common Problems with Tankless Water Heaters -

Articles :: Networx (http://www.networx.com/article/common-problems-with-tankless-water-heat)

http://www.tankless-water-heater-buzz.com/tankless-water-heater-problems.html

You may never have any problems....but then again, water heaters of any kind are delicate creatures... ;)

[Trayderjoe]

My plumber actually advised against installing a tankless hot water heater here in Michigan. He would have been glad to install it, but he said that for 2 people, the cost of purchase and installation was not worth it-even with some tax credits at the time. I guess you need to add up the numbers and see if in the long run you will come out ahead.

[jimbo2012]

A new water heater is about $325 plus about $100 to install, keep it simple.

[ijusluvit]

If you are replacing you existing hot water tank with a tankless, why would it take a longer wait for your hot water? I would assume that your tankless will be in the same proximitry of your existing tank to utilize the exisitng plumbing and electrics so the wait should be the same. The hot water exiting from the tankless is almost instantaneous as soon as you turn your faucet on and a flow is established.

Even if in the same location, tankless heaters have always taken longer to deliver hot water than tanks do. I'm asking my questions of folks who have compared the two, and about the newest tankless models.

[billethkid]

it will not get the hot water to your kitchen faucet any faster....all it does is get the water hot a different way.

$848 is pretty expensive. If you are going to consider spending that much money, be sure to check out GE's hybrid hot water tank. It too is expensive but seems, to me, a little more practical.

Something to consider when my trusty old $300 hot water tank fails....if ever....in the past 75 years I have replaced one hot water tank!!!!!

It just is not on my gotta have list.

btk

[jimbo2012]

To accomplish what you're asking you need what's called instant-on, but you will need several one at each bath, kitchen etc. get ready to spend $$.

The amount of water wasted to get hot is so insignificant, pennies

[ijusluvit]

A new water heater is about $325 plus about $100 to install, keep it simple.

Thanks for your insight, but let me say a little more to let you know why my question is not entirely trivial.
I installed a tankless heater up North about 4 years ago. Because of tax credits and a manufacturers rebate, it only cost about $300 more than a new hot water tank.

The current TECO offer creates about the same difference in cost as the deal I went for in 2008.
Immediately I saved $15-20 on my gas bill, with no additional cost for water. So I've paid for my additional cost to go tankless and banked $300-400 so far. Big deal? No. Better and greener than simply replacing the tank? Yes. And the life of tankless systems is far greater than standard tanks. I have to wait a little longer for hot water delivery, but it's not aggravating.

But my TV home has the same problem as many others. Hot tank water comes slowly, and water is a lot more costly here. Therefore, I've asked my questions...

[jimbo2012]

Because of tax credits and a manufacturers rebate, greener than simply replacing the tank? Yes. .

I hear ya, that's why I'm installing solar hot water :wave:

[rhood]

$848 for an install is crazy excessive. In my case, unit would go on outside of house, right outside the water lines, electric and gas piping. Two hours tops, give or take a few.

[JamesD]

There is good and bad.

Good: You NEVER run out of hot water.

Bad: Don't flush when sweatheart darling is in the shower.

Good: Takes up less space in garage.

Bad: I've worn out two in 12 years. Going back to a tank next time.

YMMV

PS mine is ELECTRIC not gas.

[ijusluvit]

I hear ya, that's why I'm installing solar hot water :wave:

So since you have taken the questions in a different direction, why not explain in detail why this is cost effective. Can you cite any actual experience from one or more area users?

[ijusluvit]

$848 for an install is crazy excessive. In my case, unit would go on outside of house, right outside the water lines, electric and gas piping. Two hours tops, give or take a few.

Of course it is! But that's not the point. That's the total cost TECO will charge. Compare that to the cost of installing a new standard tank that's not "FREE".
I'ts just a few hundred bucks different. That rather narrow gap is why I'm asking my questions.

[jmd4667]

May want to condsider a solar water heater system when you replace. get tax credit and reduce your elcetrical bills by as much as 30%. Contact SolarRek in Ocala and speak with Pat Altier to help in cost comparison.

[fgrider]

We bought a brand new house in NH 8 years ago and the builder had installed a tankless hot water heater and we thought great well we really dislike it as we waste a lot of water waiting for hot water. We have a basement so it has to come up to the first floor and in the summer I fill my watering cans to water my plants as not to waste water and even after filling 6 large cans I still have to run the water for a long time to start getting hot water. We have thought of replacing it with a old fashion hot water heater but the house is up for sale (Villages wanta be) so it is not worth doing. I would never ever install one. The whole development has it and no one is happy with it with the large amount of waste of water. I would vote against installing one.

[jimbo2012]

So since you have taken the questions in a different direction, why not explain in detail why this is cost effective. Can you cite any actual experience from one or more area users?

It probably isn't cost effective here with two people in home.
Typical cost is $4,000 less 30% fed rebate and no sales tax still $2800, about 30% of your elec or gas bill goes to HW, say $30 a month, so about 100 months to get full payback.

In my case it will cost a fraction of that because I'll install it myself and can get all the components wholesale, but more importantly to me is it's another toy.

[downeaster]

There are pros and cons to tankless water heaters. Here's a couple of links for you to read....

Common Problems with Tankless Water Heaters -

Articles :: Networx (http://www.networx.com/article/common-problems-with-tankless-water-heat)

http://www.tankless-water-heater-buzz.com/tankless-water-heater-problems.html

You may never have any problems....but then again, water heaters of any kind are delicate creatures... ;)

Thanks for those links, Pooh. And thanks to the other posters. I was kinda leaning towards looking into TECO's offer but I have had a change of heart.

By the way, this thread is a good example of what I think this forum is trying to accomplish. It is timely. It has intelligent responses. No one has claimed to be absolutely right. Everyone has been polite.

[cwo4mat]

I think $848 installation is extremely high!
If you figure out the cost to the savings you will find out the pay back is
so far out that it doesn't exist!

[ijusluvit]

I think $848 installation is extremely high!
If you figure out the cost to the savings you will find out the pay back is
so far out that it doesn't exist!

OK I will say it again. I'm comparing this total $848 against the cost of purchase and installation of a new hot water tank, which I estimate at about $500. The difference between the two is potentially recoverable, as I did in about two years up North.

Now do you understand why I am bothering to ask the two questions I started with?

(Still no answers)

[CaptJohn]

I don't know if this will work there but here the gas and electric companies are always trying to get each others business. If you have an electric water heater the gas co. will give you a free one to switch and vice versa, plus installation which is about $125. Since I am the handyman type, when my gas water heater went out I called the electric company and they gave me a new 40 gallon electric. I went to their warehouse and picked it up and installed it myself so the whole thing was free. When the electric goes out I will switch back to gas. Ask around, you never know til you try.

[Trayderjoe]

I don't know if this will work there but here the gas and electric companies are always trying to get each others business. If you have an electric water heater the gas co. will give you a free one to switch and vice versa, plus installation which is about $125. Since I am the handyman type, when my gas water heater went out I called the electric company and they gave me a new 40 gallon electric. I went to their warehouse and picked it up and installed it myself so the whole thing was free. When the electric goes out I will switch back to gas. Ask around, you never know til you try.

For what it's worth, I am not sure of the impact on your home owner's insurance if you install your own gas hot water heater and you aren't a licensed plumber. My insurance company indicated that if I installed the unit and there was a subsequent fire/explosion etc., the home owners policy would not cover the damages. Perhaps it was in the level of my coverage, nor have I checked recently. Not sure how they would know, but then again my handyman skills are limited..............

[lmc56]

I learned one downside to tankless yesterday morning. Woke to no power, which meant no hot water. The tankless heater is controlled by electronics. I'm going to get a cheap UPS for it. Maybe some have battery backup. I'd check before installing a new one.

[Seasidetown]

TECO Gas sent me the FREE tankless water heater notice.

You only pay for installation: "less than $46 per month for 18 months" ($848). That's not an unreasonable installation fee, especially if all hookups, including electrical, are done. The Rannai unit they install will be worth at least $600-700 and will be sufficient for homes like ours with only two people. Since my house is ten years old, it won't be long before I have to spend at least $600 installing a new hot water tank. With a tankless system there would be a savings on my gas bill, and maybe more for me because I'm not always in town. When I'm gone I turn my tank down, but never off.

As I mull this over I think of a two potential issues: 1) The increased cost of water used while waiting for hot water, and 2) The increased inconvenience of the wait. I don't have a water recirculating system so I have to wait for hot water now. Increasing that time would become an issue.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has converted to a tankless system. I'd like to know if it takes considerably longer to obtain hot water with a tankless system, and I'd love to hear the results if anyone has been able to compare the additional water costs with the gas savings.

My husband and I are on the fence about this. We read the link about waterless hot water heater and it talks about hard water - many people in tv
have water softners so this could be a problem if you don't have this- also the venting - it talks about the water heater being very hot and needing to have good venting. Would like to hear from people in TV who have gone ahead with this. the offer expires dec. so there is still time to decide

[DonnaMarie]

Has anyone made use of the TECO offer of replacing an old gas water heater with a new tankless one w/ installation paid over 18 months? Are you happy with it? Any advice?

[UpNorth]

Rinnai tankless units are very reliable and low maintenence. I have heard some disaster stories from plumbers about some other brands. If you are using it for hot water only (mine feeds 2 hydronic furnaces in addition) you will have no problem with maintaining unlimited hot water, even when someone opens up another tap. Not a big cost-saver if you have natural gas to burn.

[gomoho]

I have a plain old electric water heater and with just the 2 of us have never run out of hot water. Guess if we still had teenagers taking 2 hour showers it might be a different case. Would probably go tanless if the price was right,but other than that don't have much motivation to make the change.