Miscalculation of Bond Payoff

[Advogado]

In case you don't read the POA Bulletin, if you paid off the bond on your house, you may have been overcharged on the interest because of a miscalculation by the District Government.

As incredible as it seems, now that the miscalculation error has been discovered (apparently by a diligent homeowner), the District Government is not, on its own volition, checking the amounts of all the payoffs and refunding the overpayments it wrongly collected. Instead, if you paid off your bond and want to recover any overpayment, you need to obtain from the District office on Wedgewood Lane, fill out, and return to that office a form entitled "Request for Reimbursement of Bond Interest".

The District has said that it will then refund, to persons filling out and returning that form, any overpayments, whose recovery is not barred by the statute of limitations. In other words, if you paid off your bond, don't wait too long to file your claim.

[KeepingItReal]

In case you don't read the POA Bulletin, if you paid off the bond on your house, you may have been overcharged on the interest because of a miscalculation by the District Government.

As incredible as it seems, now that the miscalculation error has been discovered (apparently by a diligent homeowner), the District Government is not, on its own volition, checking the amounts of all the payoffs and refunding the overpayments it wrongly collected. Instead, if you paid off your bond and want to recover any overpayment, you need to obtain from the District office on Wedgewood Lane, fill out, and return to that office a form entitled "Request for Reimbursement of Bond Interest".

The District has said that it will then refund, to persons filling out and returning that form, any overpayments, whose recovery is not barred by the statute of limitations. In other words, if you paid off your bond, don't wait too long to file your claim.


There is a new article dated November 29th on the VCDD website and also in the Recreation News in the Daily Sun which explains there have been approximately 880 overpayments of bond interest identified. It also notes that only 30 of these residents have actually applied for their reimbursement. This took quite a bit of doing to prove to the VCDDs this was being done and it was being done incorrectly but you still have to apply for the refund if it applies to you. Makes you wonder what was being done with this money before this was identified since it was excess money?

Even if you haven't paid off the bond this may save you interest in the future depending on when within the year it is paid.


Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/index.aspx)

[janmcn]

There is a new article dated November 29th on the VCDD website ans also in the Recreation news in the Daily Sun which explains there have been approximately 880 overpayments of bond interest identified. It also notes that only 30 of these residents have actually applied for their reimbursement. This took quite a bit of doing to prove to the VCDDs this was being done and it was being done incorrectly but you still have to apply for the refund if it applies to you. Makes you wonder what was being done with this money before this was identified since it was excess money?

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/index.aspx)

Funny how these overpayments always benefit the developer and never the residents. It seems like it should be a simple process to notify these 850 residents that they were overcharged and what they have to do to apply for a reimbursement. They shouldn't have to rely on a website for the information. Who imposed the statute of limitations and why? Time is of the essence.

[eweissenbach]

In case you don't read the POA Bulletin, if you paid off the bond on your house, you may have been overcharged on the interest because of a miscalculation by the District Government.

As incredible as it seems, now that the miscalculation error has been discovered (apparently by a diligent homeowner), the District Government is not, on its own volition, checking the amounts of all the payoffs and refunding the overpayments it wrongly collected. Instead, if you paid off your bond and want to recover any overpayment, you need to obtain from the District office on Wedgewood Lane, fill out, and return to that office a form entitled "Request for Reimbursement of Bond Interest".

The District has said that it will then refund, to persons filling out and returning that form, any overpayments, whose recovery is not barred by the statute of limitations. In other words, if you paid off your bond, don't wait too long to file your claim.

Shame on THEM - there should never be a statute of limitations on doing the right thing! Once THEY discovered there was an error, every effort should have been made to determine who was affected and THEY should do the calculations and cut them a check regardless of any legal limitations THEY could claim.

[KeepingItReal]

.....

[graciegirl]

In case you don't read the POA Bulletin, if you paid off the bond on your house, you may have been overcharged on the interest because of a miscalculation by the District Government.

As incredible as it seems, now that the miscalculation error has been discovered (apparently by a diligent homeowner), the District Government is not, on its own volition, checking the amounts of all the payoffs and refunding the overpayments it wrongly collected. Instead, if you paid off your bond and want to recover any overpayment, you need to obtain from the District office on Wedgewood Lane, fill out, and return to that office a form entitled "Request for Reimbursement of Bond Interest".

The District has said that it will then refund, to persons filling out and returning that form, any overpayments, whose recovery is not barred by the statute of limitations. In other words, if you paid off your bond, don't wait too long to file your claim.

I have wondered this for a long time and I am going to ask you, are YOU the lawyer that brought suit against the developers?

I, as many have pointed out, assume that the Morses mean to do the right thing, but others seem to think the opposite. Being rich doesn't mean you are unethical. It seems that some posters never have anything positive to say about them. I don't know them, the Morse family, and I am guessing you don't know them either. I haven't ever met anyone that does know them. But in my eyes they continue to do good things for us.

Here is a link to the article on page 6 of the POA Bulletin. "Have you prepaid your infrastructure bond"? And for those who don't know, the POA is the watchdog organization not one that is controlled by the developer.
http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201211.pdf

[KeepingItReal]

I have wondered this for a long time and I am going to ask you, are YOU the lawyer that brought suit against the developers?

I, as many have pointed out, assume that the Morses meant to do the right thing, but others seem to think the opposite. Being rich doesn't mean you are unethical.

I knew this post was coming and I don't mind telling you I was the resident that identified this error and fought the battle to get it corrected. It started at closing on 11/08/11 when an additional year's bond interest was tacked on to our closing statement even though we paid it off in full at closing. It was either close and pay it then and fight it later or refuse to close and have to file suit for our deposit back. I had numerous exchanges with all the VCDD management and even was sent a letter by the lawyers telling me I was wrong and I owed the full year's interest. I have all the letter's and records if anyone would like to see how much work this took. I did post on TOTV asking if anyone had run into this problem before. You may look at my posts for the dates if you wish.
The Villages is a large business first and foremost and businesses are in business to make money. It is no different from other developments and resorts that try to make it appealing to live there. After correspondence to Jennifer Morse Parr I was again told I was billed correctly and only after requesting a face to face meeting with Gary Morse did I get a positive response. I never did get to meet with Jennifer or Gary but did meet with the VP of development who immediately explained I was correct and would be sent a check for $721 for 1/2 the interest. As noted before I was also overcharged on my county taxes by $67 and it was refunded as well. We were told by our closing agent they only estimate the county taxes? There is absolutely nothing wrong with being high on the Villages of which I was totally excited to be moving here too but you have to be realistic and keep your eyes wide open. I will say this ordeal took a little bit of the shine off of the Villages experience for me and made it very clear the Villages is no better or worse than any other business ethically or otherwise.

MY Original Post 07/24/12

BOND Question Anyone Familiar With this Situation

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If you pay your bond off at closing 11/08/11 was it legal for us to be charged another $1,363.38 for the next year's interest on our bond up through 09/30/12? Seems ridiculous since our bond was paid in full at the first opportunity to pay it which was our closing yet we were required to pay basically another full year's interest at 6.85% on over $21k. None of this was ever disclosed to us by our agent though we ask about the bond repeatedly. We were only told about it after we had made our deposit and were told we would loose our deposit if we refused to pay the $1,363.38 and cancell the purchase. We know full disclosure was not made as required by the Florida CDD Statute attached below but are wanting to know if we were overcharged illegally as well? Have tried to work it out with the VCDD finance manager and Villages Realty but have been basically brushed off. Will be appealing to the govenor's office and an attorney.

We bought a spec house already built in October and closed November 08, 2011, our house was not even built until end of August so there was no way the bond could have been paid in JULY. We did buy through VR and a VR agent.

CDD Statute 190.009 Disclosure of public financing. FLORIDA STATE LAW I WAS ADVISED BIG MONEY TALKS IN FLORIDA
(1) The district shall take affirmative steps to provide for the full disclosure of information relating to the public financing and maintenance of improvements to real property undertaken by the district. Such information shall be made available to all existing residents, and to all prospective residents, of the district. The district shall furnish each developer of a residential development within the district with sufficient copies of that information to provide each prospective initial purchaser of property in that development with a copy, and any developer of a residential development within the district, when required by law to provide a public offering statement, shall include a copy of such information relating to the public financing and maintenance of improvements in the public offering statement. The district shall file the disclosure documents required by this subsection and any amendments thereto in the property records of each county in which the district is located.


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Last edited by KeepingItReal; 07-24-2012 at 09:20 PM.

[Bogie Shooter]

I guess the bottom line is The Villages made a mistake. And because one individual was smart enough to raise the question and brought it to conclusion, now all are receiving the benefit. Good for him.
But, many businesses make mistakes, the paper boy makes mistakes, the local, state and federal governments make mistakes. They too benefit unitil or when it is corrected. Was the mistake by TV intentional? I doubt anymore than anyone else who makes a mistake.
Wondering what happened to the money is just silly. If the process as previously defined was being used it was not extra money, because it was expected.

[mickey100]

No one is saying it is anything more than a mistake. But it would not be a difficult matter to go thru the records, get the names of people who were overcharged, and send them a letter letting them know they are owed money. That would be the ethical thing to do, and I question why it isn't being done.

[janmcn]

I guess the bottom line is The Villages made a mistake. And because one individual was smart enough to raise the question and brought it to conclusion, now all are receiving the benefit. Good for him.
But, many businesses make mistakes, the paper boy makes mistakes, the local, state and federal governments make mistakes. They too benefit unitil or when it is corrected. Was the mistake by TV intentional? I doubt anymore than anyone else who makes a mistake.
Wondering what happened to the money is just silly. If the process as previously defined was being used it was not extra money, because it was expected.

Funny how these people are considered business geniuses until they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, and then it is just a simple mistake. You don't have to have a lot of business acumen to know that you don't charge interest on money that's already been paid back.

[KeepingItReal]

....

[manaboutown]

It was extra money in that it was over and above that which was required to pay off the bond. They took in more in interest than was required to pay the interest so the difference in the two amounts was EXTRA MONEY which should have been accumulating in the books somewhere and no it is not silly to wonder about it. Somewhere there should have been indications more money was being collected than was being required to pay the bond interest. If each of the 880 overcharged were due $721 it would amount to over $634,000.00. Apparently this pool of money is being used to pay back the overcharges but only if a request is submitted.

This situation reminds me of the reports Citizens adds another 1/4% or so to the going rate for mortgages offered by competing lenders. People borrow from Citizens for fear of not closing in time and being penalized. A little here, a little there, it all adds to the bottom line.

[janmcn]

It was extra money in that it was over and above that which was required to pay off the bond. They took in more in interest than was required to pay the interest so the difference in the two amounts was EXTRA MONEY which should have been accumulating in the books somewhere and no it is not silly to wonder about it. Somewhere there should have been indications more money was being collected than was being required to pay the bond interest. If each of the 880 overcharged were due $721 it would amount to over $634,000.00. Apparently this pool of money is being used to pay back the overcharges but only if a request is submitted.

Are they paying interest on the amount of EXTRA MONEY they took by mistake? Silly question. But if the shoe were on the other foot, the residents would be handed a bill for interest compounded daily, IMHO .

[downeaster]

Thank you KeepingItReal. Not only did you fight the system to get what is due you, you made it possible for 880 of us to get what we are due. Thanks also for the detailed report of how you finally prevailed.

When we paid off our bond I guess my head was still in the clouds and I accepted their explanation of why I was paying interest on funds that were paid off. (Honestly, I didn't just fall off a turnip truck, but, like I said, my head was in the clouds).

This incident along with some past situations have really put a damper on my opinion and enthusiasm. The shine is becoming tarnished. Or I might say as our cousins across the pond would say "the penny finally dropped".

Kudos the POA as well.

[quirky3]

Thank you KeepingItReal. Not only did you fight the system to get what is due you, you made it possible for 880 of us to get what we are due. Thanks also for the detailed report of how you finally prevailed.

When we paid off our bond I guess my head was still in the clouds and I accepted their explanation of why I was paying interest on funds that were paid off. (Honestly, I didn't just fall off a turnip truck, but, like I said, my head was in the clouds).

This incident along with some past situations have really put a damper on my opinion and enthusiasm. The shine is becoming tarnished. Or I might say as our cousins across the pond would say "the penny finally dropped".

Kudos the POA as well.
:BigApplause:

[mickey100]

Many thanks also to KeepingItReal, for helping make the refund possible. I think we should bump this thread from time to time, to keep getting the word out. Its entirely possible that people have not heard the news, particularly snow birds.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Here's a link to an article from David Miles, the finance director for the VCDD, giving a pretty thorough explanation of the issue with the bond payoffs and the refund process:

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801

Bill :)

[janmcn]

Here's a link to an article from David Miles, the finance director for the VCDD, giving a pretty thorough explanation of the issue with the bond payoffs and the refund process:

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801

Bill :)

This is a pretty clear and concise explanation of the refund process, but doesn't explain why the VCDD can't contact the 830 property owners involved and advise them they may have a refund due.

[Advogado]

Here's a link to an article from David Miles, the finance director for the VCDD, giving a pretty thorough explanation of the issue with the bond payoffs and the refund process:

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801

Bill :)

As indicated in my original post, I find two things incredible:
1. The Districts are not, on their own volition notifying the overcharged residents and refunding the overcharges; and
2. The Districts were originally (and one still is) trying to invoke the statute of limitations so as to keep some of their ill-gotten gains. If the remaining District tries to continues to try to invoke the statute, I would hope that the affected residents challenge that invocation in court.

Add to that list the fact that apparently none of the Disticts is paying interest on the amount of the overcharges despite having had use of the money during the relevant period.

[Bogie Shooter]

As indicated in my original post, I find two things incredible:
1. The Districts are not, on their own volition notifying the overcharged residents and refunding the overcharges; and
2. The Districts were originally (and one still is) trying to invoke the statute of limitations so as to keep some of their ill-gotten gains. If the remaining District tries to continues to try to invoke the statute, I would hope that the affected residents challenge that invocation in court.

Add to that list the fact that apparently none of the Disticts is paying interest on the amount of the overcharges despite having had use of the money during the relevant period.

You can get answers to your questions by contacting the Director:
David R. Miles, CGFO, is
finance director for the Village
Community Development District.
He can be reached at 753-
0421 or david.miles@districtgov.
org.

Let us know what you find out.............................

[graciegirl]

In case you don't read the POA Bulletin, if you paid off the bond on your house, you may have been overcharged on the interest because of a miscalculation by the District Government.

As incredible as it seems, now that the miscalculation error has been discovered (apparently by a diligent homeowner), the District Government is not, on its own volition, checking the amounts of all the payoffs and refunding the overpayments it wrongly collected. Instead, if you paid off your bond and want to recover any overpayment, you need to obtain from the District office on Wedgewood Lane, fill out, and return to that office a form entitled "Request for Reimbursement of Bond Interest".

The District has said that it will then refund, to persons filling out and returning that form, any overpayments, whose recovery is not barred by the statute of limitations. In other words, if you paid off your bond, don't wait too long to file your claim.

This was sent to me via email from the VCDD. I am sure it was sent to everyone who lives here.

http://mail.aol.com/37208-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28631963&folder=NewMail&partId=3e-NotificationSubject: What's Happening - Special EditionDate: 11/30/2012 Dear Subscriber,

The purpose of yesterday’s Our Place article was to address the information you have seen in the local media the last two months concerning an error in the procedures used in the calculation of bond payoff amounts when a resident elects to pay off their bonds used to fund each District’s infrastructure. For your convenience, the article link is below. If you have any additional questions, please contact the District Finance Department, Bond Team at (352) 751-3900 or visit the District’s website at www.DistrictGov.org (http://www.DistrictGov.org).
Our Place 11/29/2012 (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801)

[Bogie Shooter]

This was sent to me via email from the VCDD. I am sure it was sent to everyone who lives here.

http://mail.aol.com/37208-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28631963&folder=NewMail&partId=3e-NotificationSubject: What's Happening - Special EditionDate: 11/30/2012 Dear Subscriber,

The purpose of yesterday’s Our Place article was to address the information you have seen in the local media the last two months concerning an error in the procedures used in the calculation of bond payoff amounts when a resident elects to pay off their bonds used to fund each District’s infrastructure. For your convenience, the article link is below. If you have any additional questions, please contact the District Finance Department, Bond Team at (352) 751-3900 or visit the District’s website at www.DistrictGov.org (http://www.DistrictGov.org).
Our Place 11/29/2012 (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801)

I may be wrong (most folks think that all the time) but you only get the e-notification if you sign up to receive the notices.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

This was sent to me via email from the VCDD. I am sure it was sent to everyone who lives here. ....... - - - - - - .......Dear Subscriber, ....................


That would only have gotten sent to those who subscribed to receive such notifications from the VCDD.

Here's the link where you can sign up to selectively receive all kinds of notifications:

VCDD e-Notifications Sign Up (http://www.districtgov.org/newsletter/newsletter.aspx)

Bill :)

[mickey100]

This was sent to me via email from the VCDD. I am sure it was sent to everyone who lives here.

http://mail.aol.com/37208-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28631963&folder=NewMail&partId=3e-NotificationSubject: What's Happening - Special EditionDate: 11/30/2012 Dear Subscriber,

The purpose of yesterday’s Our Place article was to address the information you have seen in the local media the last two months concerning an error in the procedures used in the calculation of bond payoff amounts when a resident elects to pay off their bonds used to fund each District’s infrastructure. For your convenience, the article link is below. If you have any additional questions, please contact the District Finance Department, Bond Team at (352) 751-3900 or visit the District’s website at www.DistrictGov.org (http://www.DistrictGov.org).
Our Place 11/29/2012 (http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801)

Obviously, anyone who doesn't have email or a computer, didn't receive this. And many people are lax about their email; the email could have gone into their junk mail and not be noticed.

[Skybo]

Thank you KeepingItReal. Not only did you fight the system to get what is due you, you made it possible for 880 of us to get what we are due. Thanks also for the detailed report of how you finally prevailed.
<snip>
Kudos the POA as well.

I agree! Good job KeepingItReal!

[lovesports]

I agree! Good job KeepingItReal!

Thanks for all the time you put into this and standing firm. If only 30 out of 880 had made out the required paperwork to get their money back-the message is not getting out.

It was the same when siding and roofs(2004) had to be replaced because they were done wrong. First a long battle and getting no where. POA got involved. Then threat of a lawsuit that the developer had no chance of winning as the manufacturers were willing to testify that their products were put on wrong.
I told as many people as I could but most never knew anything about it. (especially the snowbirds). Many were redone poorly and people had to hire an outside inspector to get their villas redone the right way. Also, only a 4 month window so many found out too late and others to this day know nothing about it.

So keepingItReal, I have a ton of respect for your work and yes I am one who will get money back. Thank you again.

[KeepingItReal]

Thanks very much! Merry Christmas!

[Sweetgirl]

Thank you KeepItReal for challenging this wrong for future bond payoffs and those 800 + that have already done so. I must be missing something. You said they charged the full years interest of $1363.38 at your closing, but you only received 1/2 that interest $721 back. Why not the full amount? Thank you and Merry Christmas:angel:

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank you KeepItReal for challenging this wrong for future bond payoffs and those 800 + that have already done so. I must be missing something. You said they charged the full years interest of $1363.38 at your closing, but you only received 1/2 that interest $721 back. Why not the full amount? Thank you and Merry Christmas:angel:

Full explanation here:
http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/PDFMeeting.aspx?id=20121129000801

[KeepingItReal]

....

[mjfg154]

We closed 9/12/2011 and our shine for moving into The Villages also dulled. We made many calls (bank person, lawyer, Bond/taxes office) when we got the paperwork of our charges for closing. We argued the point many times and everyone told us that is how it was and we had to pay and that's just the way it was. Thank you, KeepingItReal, for having the tenacity to keep going...we all benefited from it. We also find it annoying that they do not contact all of the 880 people in writing.If they know the number, they certainly know the people. I am just looking for fairness and for sure we didn't get it at closing. We try to tell all that we see about this.

[KeepingItReal]

....

[KeepingItReal]

....

na·ive
/nīˈēv/
Adjective
(of a person or action) Showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment: "the rather naive young man had been totally misled".