The POA goes WOW!

[Skip]

Today's POA Bulletin (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201212.pdf) features an article about Barbara Vesco's decision to cancel all the parades. Excellent job the POA does. The story is factual. And I'm upset that she didn't have the decency to answer their questions or return their calls. A local newspaper, not The Daily Sun, had the same result.

Same goes for the "cruise out" every month after the trophies are awarded. She stopped that too and it was the highlight of the monthly Cruise-In.

Sounds to me like a festival boycott may be in the making because there are many clubs that gear up every year to show off their talents in parades in The Villages. Now they have no reason to exist.

Good job, POA, good job!

Skip

[justjim]

I'm currently in Illinois for the holidays---is there a link to this article? Thanks.

[Skip]

I'm currently in Illinois for the holidays---is there a link to this article? Thanks.

Yup, I just fixed my original post. Click on POA Bulletin (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201212.pdf).

Skip

[mfp509]

I don't know if there is any connection but Rocky and the Rollers used to bring in various performers and do a great show at the Savannah. Now they seem to be moved to Katie Belle's. I so miss those shows at the Savannah. They were almost always sell outs so it wasn't that they weren't attended. It's too bad things change like this.

[graciegirl]

Here is what the poll on this forum said about parades.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/parades-who-wants-them-would-not-miss-them-64256/

[Indydealmaker]

Today's POA Bulletin (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201212.pdf) features an article about Barbara Vesco's decision to cancel all the parades. Excellent job the POA does. The story is factual. And I'm upset that she didn't have the decency to answer their questions or return their calls. A local newspaper, not The Daily Sun, had the same result.

Same goes for the "cruise out" every month after the trophies are awarded. She stopped that too and it was the highlight of the monthly Cruise-In.

Sounds to me like a festival boycott may be in the making because there are many clubs that gear up every year to show off their talents in parades in The Villages. Now they have no reason to exist.

Good job, POA, good job!

Skip

Sounds like the Vesco team needs to learn the value of PR. They may have a lock on the entertainment, but 5 years to the buildout is a long time and bad PR can translate to poor sales. I suspect the Morse team will be keeping an eye on things in the interim.

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is Barbarba Vesco email address.
Barbara Vesco
barbara.vesco@thevillages.com.
CC to Rec. Director

John Rohan: John.Rohan@districtgov.org

[graciegirl]

Here is Barbarba Vesco email address.
Barbara Vesco
barbara.vesco@thevillages.com.
CC to Rec. Director

John Rohan: John.Rohan@districtgov.org

I sent her a link to this thread and I signed MY name.

[Indydealmaker]

I sent her a link to this thread and I signed MY name.

That's good! You usually sign mine!:1rotfl:

[Villageshooter]

The answer to this problem is an informational picket line at the sales offices and at the entrance to the Morris compound,,, or just continue to be drones

[Bogie Shooter]

Here is what the poll on this forum said about parades.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/parades-who-wants-them-would-not-miss-them-64256/

Maybe if she doesn't reconsider and meet with the clubs to see if the parades can be brought back.............a petition on one of those on-line sites might happen. I bet her boss would be upset.

[Warren Kiefer]

I wonder when the developer will amass enough riches to be satisfied ?? The cancellation of enjoyed activities is done at a very slow pace. I suppose those in authority believe the Villages residents will not notice if the many cancellations that have occured are done very very slowly. What's that old adage " we giveth and we taketh away"... Upon my urging and recommendations, the dfeveloper has sold six homes to friends of mine. I will not make another recommendation. I wonder where we would be today if not for the POA watching out for the best interests of all Villages's residents.

[bkcunningham1]

Yup, I just fixed my original post. Click on POA Bulletin (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201212.pdf).

Skip

Thank you Skip.

[Indydealmaker]

I wonder when the developer will amass enough riches to be satisfied ?? The cancellation of enjoyed activities is done at a very slow pace. I suppose those in authority believe the Villages residents will not notice if the many cancellations that have occured are done very very slowly. What's that old adage " we giveth and we taketh away"... Upon my urging and recommendations, the dfeveloper has sold six homes to friends of mine. I will not make another recommendation. I wonder where we would be today if not for the POA watching out for the best interests of all Villages's residents.

Does the developer owe the residents free entertainment for life?

[lovesports]

There is no way I can explain it all here, but I think it is interesting that the VHA is pushing for the parades to come back.
Whoever really knows but if the Developer's VHA really wants the parades back, they will be back. Otherwise, they just want Barb to take the fall for an unpopular decision.
Plus the article did a nice job of explaining different scenarios where compromise could be worked out.
I had already read my copy but thanks Skip for posting for others to see it.
It has much information this month.

Thanks to the 2 following posters to get the--VHA--initials corrected.

[Bogie Shooter]

There is no way I can explain it all here, but I think it is interesting that the HOA is pushing for the parades to come back.
Whoever really knows but if the Developer's HOA really wants the parades back, they will be back. Otherwise, they just want Barb to take the fall for an unpopular decision.
Plus the article did a nice job of explaining different scenarios where compromise could be worked out.
I had already read my copy but thanks Skip for posting for others to see it.
It has much information this month.

Don't you mean the POA??

[Indydealmaker]

There is no way I can explain it all here, but I think it is interesting that the HOA is pushing for the parades to come back.
Whoever really knows but if the Developer's HOA really wants the parades back, they will be back. Otherwise, they just want Barb to take the fall for an unpopular decision.
Plus the article did a nice job of explaining different scenarios where compromise could be worked out.
I had already read my copy but thanks Skip for posting for others to see it.
It has much information this month.

The way I read it, the POA is pushing for the parades to continue. The POA is not the Developer's HOA. The developer's arm is the VHA. The POA functions as a watchdog for the property owners' interests. When you read that the VHA is on board, then there will be positive parade promotions.

[lovesports]

Don't you mean the POA??

Thanks Bogie. I meant the VHA (?). The Developer's Home Owner Association. The POA is standing back and watching because they want to see what the VHA can accomplish.

Bogie, Thanks again

[Warren Kiefer]

Does the developer owe the residents free entertainment for life?

It it were not for me and other Villages residents, there would be no developer. This area would still be a cattle farm.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=Warren Kiefer;589643]It it were not for me and other Villages residents, there would be no developer. This area would still be a cattle farm.[/QUOTe

How so?

[Indydealmaker]

It it were not for me and other Villages residents, there would be no developer. This area would still be a cattle farm.

Let's try this another way. If you were the developer would you pay for free entertainment for your past customers for life?

[lovesports]

Just a gentle question...The Developer owns the bank, the retail buildings in the squares, T&D, (backing a relative) the insurance company, the furniture store, some restaurants, the movie theaters, some golf stores, some golf courses, a mortgage company ,receives rent from vendors etc. He is the hidden owner in some of the health care and utilities companies. I don't think I will ever be his "past" customer. I will be long gone and this place will still be generating income for the developer and his family.

Second point, isn't much of the entertainment being paid for from other sources than the developer??

Like I said, these are gentle questions. No emotion involved on my part. As a matter of fact, I'm going to bed.

[quirky3]

I sent her a link to this thread and I signed MY name.



Gracie, please let us know if you get a response - thank you

[Xavier]

The way I read it, the POA is pushing for the parades to continue. The POA is not the Developer's HOA. The developer's arm is the VHA. The POA functions as a watchdog for the property owners' interests. When you read that the VHA is on board, then there will be positive parade promotions.

The P.O.A. and the V.H.A. newsletters both arrived yesterday. I like that there are two such associations for The Villages residents. It's nice to compare and see both sides of topics that relate to The Villages. However, yesterday was a little different. The P.O.A. paper was pretty much jammed with information and positions. On the other hand, the V.H.A. publication was (surprisingly) total fluff. Absolutely nothing of substance. I certainly hope that yesterday's V.H.A. edition was "one of a kind" as it was a total waste of paper.

Xavier

[billethkid]

the entertainment business in TV used to be developer owned and driven. That is no longer the case. Vesco and her husband bought out the entertainment package from the developer.

They in turn have been and are weedingout those events that do not contribute to "their" bottom line. Parades are an expense. Same as the patriotic events they have scaled back and or cancelled. These were all of value as a marketing tool for the developer. Not so for Vesco.

The Vescos were/are insiders in the developer clan. The obviously operate on the basis it is their business and they owe residents no excuses.

Protests will not bring back that which does not earn them a profit, which is good business....we may quarrel with how they conduct it.

You want to organize an impact? Go after one or more of the big events that they make money from. Boycott a few of those.

As the developement of TV nears completion we can only look forward to more aspects of the "lifestyle" we bought into to be sold off and reduced/changed/eliminated.

The Vescos may be socially connected and entertainment connected however, they are definitely NOT TV resident connected.....such a shame....they exhibit the don't care attitude.
We will be missing the developer more and more as time goes on.
btk

[graciegirl]

the entertainment business in TV used to be developer owned and driven. That is no longer the case. Vesco and her husband bought out the entertainment package from the developer.

They in turn have been and are weedingout those events that do not contribute to "their" bottom line. Parades are an expense. Same as the patriotic events they have scaled back and or cancelled. These were all of value as a marketing tool for the developer. Not so for Vesco.

The Vescos were/are insiders in the developer clan. The obviously operate on the basis it is their business and they owe residents no excuses.

Protests will not bring back that which does not earn them a profit, which is good business....we may quarrel with how they conduct it.

You want to organize an impact? Go after one or more of the big events that they make money from. Boycott a few of those.

As the developement of TV nears completion we can only look forward to more aspects of the "lifestyle" we bought into to be sold off and reduced/changed/eliminated.

The Vescos may be socially connected and entertainment connected however, they are definitely NOT TV resident connected.....such a shame....they exhibit the don't care attitude.
We will be missing the developer more and more as time goes on.
btk

As usual, you say it how it is. I so respect the way you present your ideas.

[Bogie Shooter]

As usual, you say it how it is. I so respect the way you present your ideas.

I agree.

[Skip]

the entertainment business in TV used to be developer owned and driven. That is no longer the case. Vesco and her husband bought out the entertainment package from the developer.

The Vescos may be socially connected and entertainment connected however, they are definitely NOT TV resident connected.....such a shame....they exhibit the don't care attitude.

btk

Right! Paul and Barbara don't even live here any more. They live near Orlando.

Perhaps we could persuade Barbara to apply for a entertainment jobs in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Toronto, Pasadena or New Orleans. Macy's has the wonderful Thanksgiving Day Parade and there's a New York City St. Patrick's Day Parade, then there's the Mummers Parade in Philly, and the Bud Billiken Parade in Chicago, the Santa Claus Parade in Toronto, oh, and the great Rose Parade in Pasadena. Don't forget the dozens and dozens of Mardi Gras Parades in New Orleans. Canceling all those parades will certainly keep her busy. Just think of America without those famous events.

Remember when The Villages had a great Mardi Gras Parade and gave all the marching groups Mardi Gras beads to toss out to the applauding crowd? Then she stopped the tossing, then she stopped giving away the beads and now they set up stands to SELL the beads to residents. Who wants to buy Mardi Gras beads? The object is to come home with "earned" beads, not purchased beads. It's a symbol of fun and sharing not financial enterprise. Next thing you know, she'll move all the celebrations to the Polo Fields and charge admission. That's the direction we're headed.

Old Harold Schwartz must be turning in his grave. He loved to ride in that old Model T car in the parades and wave to the crowd (his friends and neighbors). It's sad.

Skip

[rubicon]

I don't wish to appear judgmental but quite frankly I am surprised that people are surprised of developmens such as this. Golf cart communities have been around for a long time. All the Developer (Entity) did was razzle dazzle people with the Lifestyle concept most of which is available in any city of an appreciable size. But some folks just seem to go overboard and these are the folks that cry out for a return of the bison. Fact is the two lawsuits in connection with the bison were a convience for the Developer (Entity) to exit something which was planned for right from the start. the Developer (entity) possesses good business acumen and is quite aggressive.
I can't say I am enamored as to their modus operandi but it is all legal.

The concern and the thing I dislike most about The Villages is that the Developer (entity) owns or controls most of Sumter County as a previous poster detailed. It is this ownership that is pivotal issue in the IRS audit of the Bond Issue.

so it is not a surprise that the Developer (entity) is spinning off its obligations as the built out is completed because it reduces expenses and increases focus on squeezing more profits on what the Developer (entity) owns here.

Another aspect is that residents either don't know or get lost in the fact that the Developer (entity) leveraged residents money to build The Villages. so when I read a post on TOTV thanking the Developer (entity) for building this wonderful place it leaves me scratching head because it is our money that is building this place.

Another concern is what happens when the build out is done? We know the Developer will have continuing income as long as TV is in existence. However we don't know who will control everyday operations nor how effective and cost efficient they will be.

[ugotme]

Not to steal this thread but . . .

This all leaves folks like us wondering?!
If we come up and like what we see (which I certainly believe we will) do we buy wondering if TV will be as it is or become "just another community?"

Kinda makes you stop and think.

:shrug:

[Bogie Shooter]

Not to steal this thread but . . .

This all leaves folks like us wondering?!
If we come up and like what we see (which I certainly believe we will) do we buy wondering if TV will be as it is or become "just another community?"

Kinda makes you stop and think.

:shrug:

When you do you will be able to talk to Villagers that never heard of TOTV.... different perspective.

[rubicon]

Not to steal this thread but . . .

This all leaves folks like us wondering?!
If we come up and like what we see (which I certainly believe we will) do we buy wondering if TV will be as it is or become "just another community?"

Kinda makes you stop and think.

:shrug:

ugotme: Don't wonder visit and use what you find here to seek the answers to your questions. However, and I may be wrong I do not believe there is anyone here that can answer that question unequivocally.

I am not overly concerned but continue seeking information so as not to encounter any surprises. I do believe The Viilages is large and wealthy enough to withstand some economic surprises and at this point is governed well.

[Yorio]

It's not about parades but we were very disappointed by the recent Bronson Gold performers at Savannah. Since PR touted it as coming from Bronson, Mo, we had great expectation but the music was so loud, we had to leave in mid-performance. The Jerry Lee Lewis performer was good but others IMHO was not Bronson calibre. Last year we heard Cadillac Gold 24 at nearby town and they were very, very good. I hope this an anomaly. There were better singers at the local Village performers of Elvis Lives which we attended few weeks before.

[Advogado]

[QUOTE=Xavier;589799]The P.O.A. and the V.H.A. newsletters both arrived yesterday. I like that there are two such associations for The Villages residents. It's nice to compare and see both sides of topics that relate to The Villages. However, yesterday was a little different. The P.O.A. paper was pretty much jammed with information and positions. On the other hand, the V.H.A. publication was (surprisingly) total fluff. Absolutely nothing of substance. I certainly hope that yesterday's V.H.A. edition was "one of a kind" as it was a total waste of paper.

In reality, the VHA is not an "Association for The Villages residents", as you describe it. In my view, it is a front for the Developer and an affront to The Villages residents. It is subsidized by the Developer in order to weaken the POA-- both financially and in terms of influence. Do not expect merely "total fluff" from the VHA newsletter. Expect Developer-slanted total fluff. Bear that in mind, and you will not be surprised again.

[Skip]

It's not about parades but we were very disappointed by the recent Bronson Gold performers at Savannah.

(BTW, It's Branson, Mo.)

Didn't like the "Branson Gold" performance? Complain to Barbara Vesco - she booked them - and took your money. How much did you pay for a half show?

Skip

[ugotme]

When you do you will be able to talk to Villagers that never heard of TOTV.... different perspective.

ugotme: Don't wonder visit and use what you find here to seek the answers to your questions. However, and I may be wrong I do not believe there is anyone here that can answer that question unequivocally.

I am not overly concerned but continue seeking information so as not to encounter any surprises. I do believe The Viilages is large and wealthy enough to withstand some economic surprises and at this point is governed well.


Good answers as always - thank you.
That is one of the main reasons I come on here to find answers and, of course, now I have gotten to "know" some of you.

Looking forward to asking more questions both here and when I visit.
Thanks for all our tolerance.

:beer3:

[billethkid]

I would not let the parade/no parade dispute sway whether one should buy into the life style here.

I hate to use the cliche', however TV is too big to fail. Some form of ongoing management will be in place....obviously not the developer.

Who ever owns/manges TV in the future is going to need for it to remain the success that it is to be prosperous.

If we go back 10 year we can recount things that used to be. Those who have been here when it all began, would comment at much better TV is than it used to be.

I don't remember the parades or the new years parties on the squares or the buffalo being in the equation when it was time to make a decision to be here.

And the new folks coming in have the advantage to see all the current pluses and no knowledge of anything being lost or "taken away".

C'mon down....TV will still offer a better life style than most any other retirement communities....for those who like an active style of life....that's why we are here right.

btk

[graciegirl]

In reality, the VHA is not an "Association for The Villages residents", as you describe it. In my view, it is a front for the Developer and an affront to The Villages residents. It is subsidized by the Developer in order to weaken the POA-- both financially and in terms of influence. Do not expect merely "total fluff" from the VHA newsletter. Expect Developer-slanted total fluff. Bear that in mind, and you will not be surprised again.

boy howdy

[mickey100]

I don't wish to appear judgmental but quite frankly I am surprised that people are surprised of developmens such as this. Golf cart communities have been around for a long time. All the Developer (Entity) did was razzle dazzle people with the Lifestyle concept most of which is available in any city of an appreciable size. But some folks just seem to go overboard and these are the folks that cry out for a return of the bison. Fact is the two lawsuits in connection with the bison were a convience for the Developer (Entity) to exit something which was planned for right from the start. the Developer (entity) possesses good business acumen and is quite aggressive.
I can't say I am enamored as to their modus operandi but it is all legal.

The concern and the thing I dislike most about The Villages is that the Developer (entity) owns or controls most of Sumter County as a previous poster detailed. It is this ownership that is pivotal issue in the IRS audit of the Bond Issue.

so it is not a surprise that the Developer (entity) is spinning off its obligations as the built out is completed because it reduces expenses and increases focus on squeezing more profits on what the Developer (entity) owns here.

Another aspect is that residents either don't know or get lost in the fact that the Developer (entity) leveraged residents money to build The Villages. so when I read a post on TOTV thanking the Developer (entity) for building this wonderful place it leaves me scratching head because it is our money that is building this place.

Another concern is what happens when the build out is done? We know the Developer will have continuing income as long as TV is in existence. However we don't know who will control everyday operations nor how effective and cost efficient they will be.

As usual, Rubicon, you bring up good points. I think people take for granted that so much of the "lifestyle" will always be here, when in fact, there is nothing saying it will.

[graciegirl]

As usual, Rubicon, you bring up good points. I think people take for granted that so much of the "lifestyle" will always be here, when in fact, there is nothing saying it will.


And...we are all 55 plus. We won't always be here either. ENJOY TODAY!:pepper2:

[mickey100]

Enjoy today. Plan for tomorrow.

[mickey100]

Actually, its probably best to "learn from yesterday, enjoy today, and plan for tomorrow".

[PennBF]

It is NOT Parades. They are the tip of the iceberg. It is all ENTERTAINMENT activities. It is music at the squares, it is supporting any clubs that may be tied to the entertainments new Consultant and so on. It is the developer taking profits out of the Village's (e.g. Retail store rental assessments, Some recreation center revenue, blocking other Reality firms from some parts of business..restriction resale realestate to his pockets, etc.etc.) and not reinvesting some of his profits back into the Villages. These are the things to look forward to vis a vis The Villages. Of course he has the right to all of these things but taking and not giving is allegedly a sign they did not give a hoot nor hollar about the Villages in the first place. If as it is alleged that a person who lives outside of the Villages is now the one in total control of the Village entertainment and this was given up by the Developer without any assurance of basic protection against an abuses then faith has been totally lost and The Villages are essentially a new type of community for over 55's.
Those who mock the ones that are concerned with the shut down of Parades are the same ones who will scream like a stuffed pig when they lose their favorite entertainment.
NET: These are very broad issues and deserve not only attention by all but
also appropriate reactions when the policies are implemented against The
Village residents. :sad:

[graciegirl]

It is NOT Parades. They are the tip of the iceberg. It is all ENTERTAINMENT activities. It is music at the squares, it is supporting any clubs that may be tied to the entertainments new Consultant and so on. It is the developer taking profits out of the Village's (e.g. Retail store rental assessments, Some recreation center revenue, blocking other Reality firms from some parts of business..restriction resale realestate to his pockets, etc.etc.) and not reinvesting some of his profits back into the Villages. These are the things to look forward to vis a vis The Villages. Of course he has the right to all of these things but taking and not giving is allegedly a sign they did not give a hoot nor hollar about the Villages in the first place. If as it is alleged that a person who lives outside of the Villages is now the one in total control of the Village entertainment and this was given up by the Developer without any assurance of basic protection against an abuses then faith has been totally lost and The Villages are essentially a new type of community for over 55's.
Those who mock the ones that are concerned with the shut down of Parades are the same ones who will scream like a stuffed pig when they lose their favorite entertainment.
NET: These are very broad issues and deserve not only attention by all but
also appropriate reactions when the policies are implemented against The
Village residents. :sad:

Pennbf...that is how business is run. The businesses DON'T HAVe to rent here. AND if I owned The Villages, I wouldn't share with outside realtors. Only the outside realtors are beefing about that..not most of us residents.

No one on this forum that I can think of is mocking people who grieve the loss of parades, but this poll of people who post on this forum shows that well over half won't miss the parades. It well may be that the rest of the people are really upset about this, but I haven't heard it from the people I know. But I am often wrong.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/parades-who-wants-them-would-not-miss-them-64256/

I just don't see that AGAINST is the word I would use here in your quote. "These are very broad issues and deserve not only attention by all but
also appropriate reactions when the policies are implemented against The
Village residents."

And I don't see that the Morses " TAKE and not give" or "don't reinvest the profits back into The Villages." or " don't give a hoot or holler about The Villages in the first place".

But what if all you say is 100 per cent true. So far no other entity has come up with anything as good as this...not by a long shot..So if Gary Morse is really Attilla the Hun...This old lady still thinks he is smart as can be and she is glad he built The Villages so she could spend this part of her life here.

[Warren Kiefer]

[QUOTE=Warren Kiefer;589643]It it were not for me and other Villages residents, there would be no developer. This area would still be a cattle farm.[/QUOTe

How so?

Simple,none of us would be here.

[PennBF]

Some are missing the point ! How many bought in The Villages because of great activities? If they are lost and were convinced to buy based on advertising, (e.g. current advertising touting parades as a bait to purchase, etc.) then it was at the least misleading and sad for those that relied on that plus.
I really don't care but to say it is just business is totally missing the boat.
There is an old statement that "business's do not have a soul" and a lot of
people miss this point. Locking out other business could be construed as
creating a non competitive monopoly which allegedly harms the consumer.
Hey, I could care less if there are no Parades or music it would not change my mind about The Villages..BUT I can understand those that rely on
these and mourn their loss. I guess it is having a feeling for the other guy.
To excuse the other person's feeling as a "so what" is unfortunately not what
is appropriate to another persons' loss. :bowdown:

[Warren Kiefer]

Pennbf...that is how business is run. The businesses DON'T HAVe to rent here. AND if I owned The Villages, I wouldn't share with outside realtors. Only the outside realtors are beefing about that..not most of us residents.

No one on this forum that I can think of is mocking people who grieve the loss of parades, but this poll of people who post on this forum shows that well over half won't miss the parades. It well may be that the rest of the people are really upset about this, but I haven't heard it from the people I know. But I am often wrong.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/parades-who-wants-them-would-not-miss-them-64256/

I just don't see that AGAINST is the word I would use here in your quote. "These are very broad issues and deserve not only attention by all but
also appropriate reactions when the policies are implemented against The
Village residents."

And I don't see that the Morses " TAKE and not give" or "don't reinvest the profits back into The Villages." or " don't give a hoot or holler about The Villages in the first place".

But what if all you say is 100 per cent true. So far no other entity has come up with anything as good as this...not by a long shot..So if Gary Morse is really Attilla the Hun...This old lady still thinks he is smart as can be and she is glad he built The Villages so she could spend this part of her life here.

Gracie, you are missing some important points. First not having other realtors in the Villages would only benefit the Developer by giving him a monoply. This would certainly adversly affect the Villagers....Competition is always good for the consumer.
And you not seeing the Morses not reinvesting back into the Villages. Harold Schwartz had a vision, I believe that vision was for him to live a good life and give back as much as possible to the Residents. It has clearly been documented that Gary Morse has accumulated the enormous wealth of 1.2 BILLION dollars. I am sorry, but a person who has a worth of 1200 MILLIONS certainly isn't putting back hat he could into the Villages community.

[swrinfla]

Sorry, but I have one or two major issues with this thread! Among them:

1. The Vescos reportedly do not even live here. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is that statement thrown out?

2. Mr. Morse is reportedly a billionaire. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is this statement thrown out?

3. It's all the Vesco's personal bottom line. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is this statement thrown out?

Granted, if the parades are indeed cancelled due to a personal bottom line, then that is A Bad Thing. But, throwing out "factual statements" such as these without backing them up, that bothers me no end!

SWR
:beer3:

[gerryann]

Gracie, you are missing some important points. First not having other realtors in the Villages would only benefit the Developer by giving him a monoply. This would certainly adversly affect the Villagers....Competition is always good for the consumer.
And you not seeing the Morses not reinvesting back into the Villages. Harold Schwartz had a vision, I believe that vision was for him to live a good life and give back as much as possible to the Residents. It has clearly been documented that Gary Morse has accumulated the enormous wealth of 1.2 BILLION dollars. I am sorry, but a person who has a worth of 1200 MILLIONS certainly isn't putting back hat he could into the Villages community.

To all of us this is our home, our neighborhood, and our retirement decision. To the developer, it is a business....they are in it to make money...that is what businesses do. Their decisions are based on what will or will not make money for them. They are putting out millions to make millions. Anyone moving here, hopefully has done their homework and already know this. It's a business!!
Also, how can anyone say that the Morses are not giving back to the community? Look around. It's beautiful. It's well maintained. Look at the new square. Mr Schwartz's vision is most definitely the current vision as well.

[janmcn]

Gracie, you are missing some important points. First not having other realtors in the Villages would only benefit the Developer by giving him a monoply. This would certainly adversly affect the Villagers....Competition is always good for the consumer.
And you not seeing the Morses not reinvesting back into the Villages. Harold Schwartz had a vision, I believe that vision was for him to live a good life and give back as much as possible to the Residents. It has clearly been documented that Gary Morse has accumulated the enormous wealth of 1.2 BILLION dollars. I am sorry, but a person who has a worth of 1200 MILLIONS certainly isn't putting back hat he could into the Villages community.

Harold Schwartz had the vision, and together with his son Gary Morse, was able to build that dream. His vision, IMO, was a self-contained village with everything a retiree could want or need: shopping, churches, a hospital, medical facilities, entertainment, recreation facilities including bowling alleys, softball fields, tennis, pickleball courts, swimming, etc etc., a woodworking shop, rv parking, and beautiful plush contry clubs. Fortunately, Harold lived long enough to see his main goal of having his own hospital.

It doesn't appear that a lot of this dream is being replicated by the younger generation that is now running The Villages. The business plan that seems to be in place now is build as many houses as quickly as possible, because that is where the quick return on investment is. Possibly they have plans for more shopping, churches, bowling alleys, softball fields, etc, that isn't apparent.

So many changes have happened since I made my first trip here in 2000, when every visitor to TV was picked up at the airport in a stretch limo with a fully stocked bar and given free accomodations when ordering their homes. The lifestyle visits were still $100 per night, but $75 of that was refunded in Village dollars to spend at any village owned facility; ie Katie Belle's, golf, movies, etc.

It's all speculation what will happen when the build-out occurs. Perhaps the Morse clan will move on to another project. They seem too young and too ambitious to retire at their young ages. After all 1.5 billion here, 1.5 billion there...pretty soon you're talking about real money.

[SALYBOW]

Iagree with that.

[Indydealmaker]

Gracie, you are missing some important points. First not having other realtors in the Villages would only benefit the Developer by giving him a monoply. This would certainly adversly affect the Villagers....Competition is always good for the consumer.
And you not seeing the Morses not reinvesting back into the Villages. Harold Schwartz had a vision, I believe that vision was for him to live a good life and give back as much as possible to the Residents. It has clearly been documented that Gary Morse has accumulated the enormous wealth of 1.2 BILLION dollars. I am sorry, but a person who has a worth of 1200 MILLIONS certainly isn't putting back hat he could into the Villages community.

Well, since the Morse family has earned too much, how much money do you think we should allow them to keep?

[Villageshooter]

It is NOT Parades. They are the tip of the iceberg. It is all ENTERTAINMENT activities. It is music at the squares, it is supporting any clubs that may be tied to the entertainments new Consultant and so on. It is the developer taking profits out of the Village's (e.g. Retail store rental assessments, Some recreation center revenue, blocking other Reality firms from some parts of business..restriction resale realestate to his pockets, etc.etc.) and not reinvesting some of his profits back into the Villages. These are the things to look forward to vis a vis The Villages. Of course he has the right to all of these things but taking and not giving is allegedly a sign they did not give a hoot nor hollar about the Villages in the first place. If as it is alleged that a person who lives outside of the Villages is now the one in total control of the Village entertainment and this was given up by the Developer without any assurance of basic protection against an abuses then faith has been totally lost and The Villages are essentially a new type of community for over 55's.
Those who mock the ones that are concerned with the shut down of Parades are the same ones who will scream like a stuffed pig when they lose their favorite entertainment.
NET: These are very broad issues and deserve not only attention by all but
also appropriate reactions when the policies are implemented against The
Village residents. :sad:

Great post! you see the big picture,,,

[Pturner]

I sent her a link to this thread and I signed MY name.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

GG has to be herself. Everyone else is taken. 😉

[Vinny]

If you think this is something just wait until Morse pulls out and we have to vote how to spend our amenities fee. People tend to not want to spend money or increase fees for things they are not interested in. Been there and moved here to get away from there but it appears that I will once again be in a situation where three wolves and a rabbit decide what is for lunch. When that day approaches odds are that I will find a home with no HOA fees and just pay for what I want to pay for.

[Mack184]

Since we live in a society where people will now sue at the drop of a hat, could it be that there are reasons that are unseen? I am guessing that no matter who sponsors the various parades the organizer/sponsor must provide for some sort of blanket liability insurance. Is it possible that the costs for such insurance, or other required expenses have risen to a point where it no longer makes any financial sense to fund them? If this is the case, are those in charge of the entertainment attempting to pick & choose the most popular, most viable activites where the outlay makes the most sense?

Have they been advised by company lawyers that their exposure to a possible lawsuit for various reasons makes these parades to large a liability?

It is quite possible. TV is a business not a charity, and businesses make choices like this all the time. For that matter, so do charities.

[mickey100]

Some are missing the point ! How many bought in The Villages because of great activities? If they are lost and were convinced to buy based on advertising, (e.g. current advertising touting parades as a bait to purchase, etc.) then it was at the least misleading and sad for those that relied on that plus.
I really don't care but to say it is just business is totally missing the boat.
There is an old statement that "business's do not have a soul" and a lot of
people miss this point. Locking out other business could be construed as
creating a non competitive monopoly which allegedly harms the consumer.
Hey, I could care less if there are no Parades or music it would not change my mind about The Villages..BUT I can understand those that rely on
these and mourn their loss. I guess it is having a feeling for the other guy.
To excuse the other person's feeling as a "so what" is unfortunately not what
is appropriate to another persons' loss. :bowdown:
Some are missing the point ! How many bought in The Villages because of great activities? If they are lost and were convinced to buy based on advertising, (e.g. current advertising touting parades as a bait to purchase, etc.) then it was at the least misleading and sad for those that relied on that plus.
I really don't care but to say it is just business is totally missing the boat.
There is an old statement that "business's do not have a soul" and a lot of
people miss this point. Locking out other business could be construed as
creating a non competitive monopoly which allegedly harms the consumer.
Hey, I could care less if there are no Parades or music it would not change my mind about The Villages..BUT I can understand those that rely on
these and mourn their loss. I guess it is having a feeling for the other guy.
To excuse the other person's feeling as a "so what" is unfortunately not what
is appropriate to another persons' loss. :bowdown:

I agree with you. I think any of us could look and find an activity that is funded by The Villages that is something we're not interested in, but we know a number of people that bought homes here in part because of that activity. Softball fields for example. Polo. The Villages Woodshop. Bowling Alleys. Add Parades to that list. The majority of the people here may not want parades, but a big percentage do (if the unscientific poll is to be believed). The same way the majority of people don't play softball but a large percentage do, and so on. The lure of this place was it had a little something for everybody, or so it was advertised.

And it is misleading if not unethical to advertise certain amenities, allow people to purchase homes based on the promise that the amenity will be provided, then discontinue the amenity.

But we need to keep the past in mind and learn from it. We've learned in the past that the Morses have an unethical side to them as evidenced by the class action lawsuit that Villagers filed a few years back that said monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner had been misused by the developer . They at first tried to settle out of court and got nowhere. Luckily for us they went to court, and the lawsuit resulted in $40 million to replenish maintenance accounts to to cover repairs and maintenance to facilities.

And how about the latest business regarding improper refunds of bond payoffs. Can we really trust the developer?

[Cisco Kid]

Well, since the Morse family has earned too much, how much money do you think we should allow them to keep?

:boom:

[Challenger]

Virtually all developers in larger projects provide amenities at one level or another as partof their marketing package. Many times , as in The Villages, this includes the contribution of capital assets such as buildings and playing fields and their equipment. As the development matures it is usually the case that the developer turns these activities over to the residents who determine at what level they will operate and how much they will volunteer to contribute. IMHO The Villages has provided us with a superior array of amenities and services and their withdrawal over time was entirely predictable. As residents we need to now evaluate the things we want to perpetuate and begin to step up as the developer steps out. We have 1800 +/- clubs. If they want a parade then organize and raise the funds needed to put on a parade. We probably have a few more years where the developer is still making significant marketing efforts. We need to begin preparing now for their total withdrawal from these activities.

[graciegirl]

I agree with you. I think any of us could look and find an activity that is funded by The Villages that is something we're not interested in, but we know a number of people that bought homes here in part because of that activity. Softball fields for example. Polo. The Villages Woodshop. Bowling Alleys. Add Parades to that list. The majority of the people here may not want parades, but a big percentage do (if the unscientific poll is to be believed). The same way the majority of people don't play softball but a large percentage do, and so on. The lure of this place was it had a little something for everybody, or so it was advertised.

And it is misleading if not unethical to advertise certain amenities, allow people to purchase homes based on the promise that the amenity will be provided, then discontinue the amenity.

But we need to keep the past in mind and learn from it. We've learned in the past that the Morses have an unethical side to them as evidenced by the class action lawsuit that Villagers filed a few years back that said monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner had been misused by the developer . They at first tried to settle out of court and got nowhere. Luckily for us they went to court, and the lawsuit resulted in $40 million to replenish maintenance accounts to to cover repairs and maintenance to facilities.

And how about the latest business regarding improper refunds of bond payoffs. Can we really trust the developer?



http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer

Elaine Driedame is the president of the POA

[graciegirl]

Before we moved to new house here in The Villages last year we lived adjacent to Odell Recreation center where we witnessed it and all of it's outbuildings being painted EVERY year for the four years we were there.. Also the wall between us and Odell was power washed and the planting beds hand weeded at least twice a year.

The streets are clean and free from debris. The rec centers are kept up beautifully inside.

In every rec center there is a beautiful Christmas tree that goes with the decor of each place. Beautiful.

Take the time to go around and see as many trees as possible in different rec centers this season. They bring us beautiful things.

Disclaimer. I don't work for the Morses, I don't know the Morses, they could be nasty....but they sure make this place so beautiful and keep it so nice and clean.

Merry Christmas

[bimmertl]

Before we moved to new house here in The Villages last year we lived adjacent to Odell Recreation center where we witnessed it and all of it's outbuildings being painted EVERY year for the four years we were there.. Also the wall between us and Odell was power washed and the planting beds hand weeded at least twice a year.

The streets are clean and free from debris. The rec centers are kept up beautifully inside.

In every rec center there is a beautiful Christmas tree that goes with the decor of each place. Beautiful.

Take the time to go around and see as many trees as possible in different rec centers this season. They bring us beautiful things.

Disclaimer. I don't work for the Morses, I don't know the Morses, they could be nasty....but they sure make this place so beautiful and keep it so nice and clean.

Merry Christmas


Of course, this is all possible since it is the residents that pay for all of this. And we also pay all the salaries of the employees, and relatives and friends of Morse who are employees despite the fact their qualifications for their positions are unknown as are their salaries.

While we all scream for "transparency" from our government officials, in TV we have none regarding many issues and nobody complains, not that it would make a difference if we did.

[PennBF]

If anyone wants to have a deeper understanding of the clever ways the Developer is conducting business just take a look at the Amenity Fees vs
the Project Wide. There are a series of articles in the POA newspaper which addresses these and they can be sourced out of the old newspapers on their website. The residents are paying expenses which are a direct advantage to the Developer as opposed to the general public.
I repeat..we love The Villages but we don't lose sight of reality. You have CDD's who historically just approve any actions favorable to the developer, you have Village managment who in a number a cases are the result of being
appointed through the Developer. Some by very clever paths.
Most residents just don't care which I understand since they can afford the extra costs and just go on. I may be one of them. When is action required or needed..probably when the actions directly remove things we individually
enjoy? It looks like they pushed the envelope when they attacked the Parades which are much loved by many? If they can chunk this piece away then it would be time to move on to the others.., (e.g. anything they determine may be classified as "entertainment" and turned over to non Villages residents who are driven by the bottom line.) :MOJE_whot:

[mickey100]

Virtually all developers in larger projects provide amenities at one level or another as partof their marketing package. Many times , as in The Villages, this includes the contribution of capital assets such as buildings and playing fields and their equipment. As the development matures it is usually the case that the developer turns these activities over to the residents who determine at what level they will operate and how much they will volunteer to contribute. ... We need to begin preparing now for their total withdrawal from these activities.


Yes, in The Villages the developer used special appraisal techniques, approved and accepted by their hand-picked boards, to sell common properties back to the residents in the CDDs at grossly inflated prices.

[graciegirl]

I believe that the some of the above posts are speculative and incorrect....at best.

It is not illegal, unethical or immoral to make money running a business.

I do not feel I have lost anything, only gained new things to do and see as we grow, and as we grow, some of our group activities may have to be rethought such as the parades filling the squares and leaving no room for people.


What do the ALWAYS ANONYMOUS naysayers have to gain, I constantly wonder. Do they not live here, and are jealous, do they work for competitive areas, or outside businesses? Do they just dislike the developers because they are successful and very rich?

It is not a sin to be rich.

[Indydealmaker]

Yes, in The Villages the developer used special appraisal techniques, approved and accepted by their hand-picked boards, to sell common properties back to the residents in the CDDs at grossly inflated prices.

Actually, the appraisals have passed more than one audit and are in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices. The valuations were for income streams as well as physical plants.

[perrjojo]

It is not illegal, unethical or immoral to make money running a business.

I do not feel I have lost anything, only gained new things to do and see as we grow, and as we grow, some of our group activities may have to be rethought such as the parades filling the squares and leaving no room for people.


What do the ALWAYS ANONYMOUS naysayers have to gain, I constantly wonder. Do they not live here, and are jealous, do they work for competitive areas, or outside businesses? Do they just dislike the developer because he is successful and very rich?

It is not a sin to be rich.

Right On! It is NOT a sin to be rich....business SHOULD make money...otherwise it is called a HOBBY.

I, like you,wonder about those who have hundreds and even thousands of posts on TOTV and they do not even live here. Some have never even been here and yet they have so many negative comments. Why would anyone not living here or ever intending to live here be on this forum so much? Perhaps it is loneliness that comes from not having all of the wonderful opportunities for friendships that we have here in TV

[Indydealmaker]

I believe that the above posts are speculative and incorrect....at best.

It is not illegal, unethical or immoral to make money running a business.

I do not feel I have lost anything, only gained new things to do and see as we grow, and as we grow, some of our group activities may have to be rethought such as the parades filling the squares and leaving no room for people.


What do the ALWAYS ANONYMOUS naysayers have to gain, I constantly wonder. Do they not live here, and are jealous, do they work for competitive areas, or outside businesses? Do they just dislike the developer because he is successful and very rich?

It is not a sin to be rich.
Gracie, It is currently in vogue to criminalize being wealthy. This whole brewhaw has started because the developer is spinning off various parts of the Villages and those parts are now going to be net income producing. WHAT A SURPRISE!

I think some of the posters are just as mad at themselves as they are the developer...they assumed certain free entertainments would continue ad infinitum.

If these features were that critical to their purchases, they should have performed their due diligence, however all too many did not even use an attorney at their closings. They depended upon the "goodwill" of their agents.

Maybe it is time to do now what they should have done back when; get in writing what will continue free and how it is to be paid for. This really is simple. It is just business and with 80,000 homes, almost any kind of entertainment can be very affordably acquired. There is no free lunch.

[loonlovers]

I believe that the some of the above posts are speculative and incorrect....at best.

It is not illegal, unethical or immoral to make money running a business.

I do not feel I have lost anything, only gained new things to do and see as we grow, and as we grow, some of our group activities may have to be rethought such as the parades filling the squares and leaving no room for people.


What do the ALWAYS ANONYMOUS naysayers have to gain, I constantly wonder. Do they not live here, and are jealous, do they work for competitive areas, or outside businesses? Do they just dislike the developers because they are successful and very rich?

It is not a sin to be rich.

Gracie, you took the words out of my mouth! All these negative posts lately from the same individuals who can find nothing right in TV. And, no..I don't have rose colored glasses on! I'm amazed how critical individuals can be who have very limited exposure to The Villages...a visit doesn't make someone an expert. Some non resident posters even attempt to criticize or even ridicule those of us who live here.

My husband and I have been full time residents for more than two years after spending just winters for six years. We are still "in love" with this wonderful community we live in.

Are there some areas for improvement here...absolutely. But, this community has provided many of us with the best experience we could ever expect in our retirement years.

[billethkid]

yes buying and selling homes/real estate is a business. no kidding!! Is it any different in anyone's mind than buying or selling through any other real estate company in the US?? Of course not.

Let's see, I do believe the developer has been out of "the business(es) north of 441. Some how they seem to have continued to exist.

Did you buy here because of the parades. Most of us did not.

Did you buy here because of the entertainmnent. Most of us did not.

Is it nice to have parades/entertainment? Of course for those who are hooked on it.....odds are this would represent a minority in TV.....which is still a sizeable number of people.

Every developer based community goes through a transition as the developer's build out approaches. There are always many amenities that are subsidized by developers which do in fact benefit residents but make no mistake these amenities are subsidized for marketing to the new sale.

Will the developer hang in here after the build out. Most likely. Why throw away the opportunity to continue to make significant profits selling the same homes over and over and over again.

Those entities the developer owns tha turn a health profit will continue to be held by them like the banks, the liquor stores, the real estate company, etc.

All the marketing driven stuff will be sold off to the insiders first like the newspaper was to the Markquards and the entertainment to the Vescos.
The other marketing driven entities will survive if a profitable venture.

No matter what is left it will still be a far and away better life style than is available in most retirement communities and cities of our size.

btk

[Golfingnut]

yes buying and selling homes/real estate is a business. no kidding!! Is it any different in anyone's mind than buying or selling through any other real estate company in the US?? Of course not.

Let's see, I do believe the developer has been out of "the business(es) north of 441. Some how they seem to have continued to exist.

Did you buy here because of the parades. Most of us did not.

Did you buy here because of the entertainmnent. Most of us did not.

Is it nice to have parades/entertainment? Of course for those who are hooked on it.....odds are this would represent a minority in TV.....which is still a sizeable number of people.

Every developer based community goes through a transition as the developer's build out approaches. There are always many amenities that are subsidized by developers which do in fact benefit residents but make no mistake these amenities are subsidized for marketing to the new sale.

Will the developer hang in here after the build out. Most likely. Why throw away the opportunity to continue to make significant profits selling the same homes over and over and over again.

Those entities the developer owns tha turn a health profit will continue to be held by them like the banks, the liquor stores, the real estate company, etc.

All the marketing driven stuff will be sold off to the insiders first like the newspaper was to the Markquards and the entertainment to the Vescos.
The other marketing driven entities will survive if a profitable venture.

No matter what is left it will still be a far and away better life style than is available in most retirement communities and cities of our size.

btk

We don't always agree, but you score a SPOT ON for this post BTK.

[Bogie Shooter]

Gracie, It is currently in vogue to criminalize being wealthy. This whole brewhaw has started because the developer is spinning off various parts of the Villages and those parts are now going to be net income producing. WHAT A SURPRISE!

I think some of the posters are just as mad at themselves as they are the developer...they assumed certain free entertainments would continue ad infinitum.

If these features were that critical to their purchases, they should have performed their due diligence, however all too many did not even use an attorney at their closings. They depended upon the "goodwill" of their agents.

Maybe it is time to do now what they should have done back when; get in writing what will continue free and how it is to be paid for. This really is simple. It is just business and with 80,000 homes, almost any kind of entertainment can be very affordably acquired. There is no free lunch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
yes buying and selling homes/real estate is a business. no kidding!! Is it any different in anyone's mind than buying or selling through any other real estate company in the US?? Of course not.

Let's see, I do believe the developer has been out of "the business(es) north of 441. Some how they seem to have continued to exist.

Did you buy here because of the parades. Most of us did not.

Did you buy here because of the entertainmnent. Most of us did not.

Is it nice to have parades/entertainment? Of course for those who are hooked on it.....odds are this would represent a minority in TV.....which is still a sizeable number of people.

Every developer based community goes through a transition as the developer's build out approaches. There are always many amenities that are subsidized by developers which do in fact benefit residents but make no mistake these amenities are subsidized for marketing to the new sale.

Will the developer hang in here after the build out. Most likely. Why throw away the opportunity to continue to make significant profits selling the same homes over and over and over again.

Those entities the developer owns tha turn a health profit will continue to be held by them like the banks, the liquor stores, the real estate company, etc.

All the marketing driven stuff will be sold off to the insiders first like the newspaper was to the Markquards and the entertainment to the Vescos.
The other marketing driven entities will survive if a profitable venture.

No matter what is left it will still be a far and away better life style than is available in most retirement communities and cities of our size.

btk

-----------------------------------
After all those depressing posts.................these two will now allow us to not worry anymore!:wave:

[villages07]

The term "amenity" has been used, abused, and misused in this thread.

The amenities that we pay for, via, our monthly amenity fee include.... rec centers, exec golf, pools, community watch, and support for the myriad of recreation programs. We pay for it, we have some (but not a lot) of say in what is offered and how they operate.

All of the entertainment and special events are put on by commercial entities. We don't contract for it or pay for it directly so we have little influence over what is scheduled, when, and how much. If we support these events with our participation and patronage and they are profitable for the sponsoring business...they will probably continue.

Arts and crafts shows, cruise in, parades, military honor events, polo, other car shows at the squares, onsite filming of television talk shows, political rallies, chili cook off, BBQ bash, events for the High School ... and on and on the list goes. These are all events and activities we enjoy but we don't pay for.

You can only control (to some degree) what you own and pay for.

I truly wish the Developer was a little more forthcoming about these business changes and the reasons for them .... that would serve to quell some of the outrage and rumors.

All in all, it's still a pretty remarkable place to live.

[mulligan]

IMHO, Barbara Vesco has no need to justify her business decisions to anyone.

[Challenger]

The term "amenity" has been used, abused, and misused in this thread.

The amenities that we pay for, via, our monthly amenity fee include.... rec centers, exec golf, pools, community watch, and support for the myriad of recreation programs. We pay for it, we have some (but not a lot) of say in what is offered and how they operate.

All of the entertainment and special events are put on by commercial entities. We don't contract for it or pay for it directly so we have little influence over what is scheduled, when, and how much. If we support these events with our participation and patronage and they are profitable for the sponsoring business...they will probably continue.

Arts and crafts shows, cruise in, parades, military honor events, polo, other car shows at the squares, onsite filming of television talk shows, political rallies, chili cook off, BBQ bash, events for the High School ... and on and on the list goes. These are all events and activities we enjoy but we don't pay for.

You can only control (to some degree) what you own and pay for.

I truly wish the Developer was a little more forthcoming about these business changes and the reasons for them .... that would serve to quell some of the outrage and rumors.

All in all, it's still a pretty remarkable place to live.

Well said

[Cedwards38]

This community, like all communities, will change over time. About that we can be sure. Some changes will be liked by some and disliked by others, but the change is inevitable. Generally speaking, that which does not make money disappears, or it finds a way to make money. That is neither good or bad, but is just simple economics. No matter what occurs in life, someone must pay for it.

[swrinfla]

I believe that the some of the above posts are speculative and incorrect....at best.

It is not illegal, unethical or immoral to make money running a business.

I do not feel I have lost anything, only gained new things to do and see as we grow, and as we grow, some of our group activities may have to be rethought such as the parades filling the squares and leaving no room for people.


What do the ALWAYS ANONYMOUS naysayers have to gain, I constantly wonder. Do they not live here, and are jealous, do they work for competitive areas, or outside businesses? Do they just dislike the developers because they are successful and very rich?

It is not a sin to be rich.

Gracie:

As always, you state things in proper perspective. I only wish that all could do the same! :-)

This thread is becoming distressingly negative, I'm afraid. I earnestly hope that that does not portray an over-riding out-view! You and I have been here long enough to understand The Developer's Point-of-View, and endorse it wholeheartedly! Even with our occasional reservations!

I hope others will join us in our "pro" attitude! :-)

SWR
:beer3:

[rubicon]

As a marketing tool the Developer (entity) made a big deal about the free entertainment in town squares year after year after year. So it is no surprise that a number of residents feel betrayed because the practice did infer that this was going to be a part of the lifestyle.

A number of residents seem compelled no obsessed defending the Entity but they fail to recognize that those residents who raise legitimate concerns do so because they do not have representation here.

The Entity has so much power and control in Sumter County and all business is done behind closed doors. The way around the Sunshine Laws in Florida is to have "the meeting"and then a meeting for the record. Sumter One tied up the Commissioners for this entity. The Entity has strategically placed its syncophants in key roles in The Villlages on the Boards of Water District, etc.

The entity finances The Villages HomeOwner Association. The POA has good intentions but it has very limited credibility.

[Bogie Shooter]

A number of residents seem compelled no obsessed defending the Entity but they fail to recognize that those residents who raise legitimate concerns do so because they do not have representation here.

.

Gracie & swrinfl, I think you are being talked about.

[graciegirl]

Gracie & SWRinFl, I think you are being talked about.

I am in great company. Steve is one nice fella.

And for those who are thinking about moving here and having a say in government of this place, think and think again. This is a CDD form of government. Unlike anything you have probably experienced.

I think it is fine...but please don't come here and try to vote on anything, change anything, run anything. It is what it is..

And I of course like it a lot and so does Sweetie and Helene.

[Bogie Shooter]

I keep reading on this thread that we, the residents, have no say about what happens in our district. The following was copied from Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) and relates to District 6.
============
Now that you are generally familiar with the District concept, let's describe the election process and the Board of Supervisors who oversee the activities of the District. Initially, the Board of Supervisors, consisting of five members, is elected based on land ownership. The legislature, in creating Chapter 190, recognized that in order to maintain continuity of the facilities provided to the newly developing community, the developer, who then owns the majority of the land, should be granted the right to substantially complete the project as envisioned by the various land use and zoning approvals that were obtained as part of the development review process. However, the legislature also recognized that at the time control should transition to the residents. Tprescribed by statute, herefore, at the election held in 2006, three of the five Supervisors were elected by landowner vote (one vote per lot owned and/or one vote per acre owned). The same process will occur in 2008. In 2010, one supervisor will be elected by landowners and two supervisors will be elected by "qualified electors" (registered voters) residing in CDD No. 6. From that point forward, all elections will be qualified based elections. This election conversion format ensures that the residents ultimately control the level of service provided to the infrastructure facilities that the District maintains.

[graciegirl]

I keep reading on this thread that we, the residents, have no say about what happens in our district. The following was copied from Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) and relates to District 6.
============
Now that you are generally familiar with the District concept, let's describe the election process and the Board of Supervisors who oversee the activities of the District. Initially, the Board of Supervisors, consisting of five members, is elected based on land ownership. The legislature, in creating Chapter 190, recognized that in order to maintain continuity of the facilities provided to the newly developing community, the developer, who then owns the majority of the land, should be granted the right to substantially complete the project as envisioned by the various land use and zoning approvals that were obtained as part of the development review process. However, the legislature also recognized that at the time control should transition to the residents. Tprescribed by statute, herefore, at the election held in 2006, three of the five Supervisors were elected by landowner vote (one vote per lot owned and/or one vote per acre owned). The same process will occur in 2008. In 2010, one supervisor will be elected by landowners and two supervisors will be elected by "qualified electors" (registered voters) residing in CDD No. 6. From that point forward, all elections will be qualified based elections. This election conversion format ensures that the residents ultimately control the level of service provided to the infrastructure facilities that the District maintains.

I stand corrected by you Bogie Shooter, another nice fella who I highly respect.

[mickey100]

Actually, the appraisals have passed more than one audit and are in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices. The valuations were for income streams as well as physical plants.

The appraisal firms that set the value of the properties were tools of the district who did what they were told. They were not independent appraisers, as the IRS requires.

At one point the IRS said it believed 2003 Village Center Community Development District bonds overpaid Morse for golf courses and other structures. The bonds paid Morse $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. The district is trying to use the income stream argument, and, as we are all aware, the investigation is still ongoing, and these issues have not been resolved.

[graciegirl]

The appraisal firms that set the value of the properties were tools of the district who did what they were told. They were not independent appraisers, as the IRS requires.

At one point the IRS said it believed 2003 Village Center Community Development District bonds overpaid Morse for golf courses and other structures. The bonds paid Morse $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. The district is trying to use the income stream argument, and, as we are all aware, the investigation is still ongoing, and these issues have not been resolved.

I believe that it your opinion.

I don't remember reading anything about what the IRS "believed".

If I were as unhappy and disappointed about this place and the developer as you appear to be...well...

Houses are easy to sell here..without loss.

[Bucco]

I believe that it your opinion.

I don't remember reading anything about what the IRS "believed".

If I were as unhappy and disappointed about this place and the developer as you appear to be...well...

Houses are easy to sell here..without loss.


Ahhh,,,,,,GRACIE......I am so with you.

I came here in 1999....took classes with Pete Wahl to find out about the "government" here (not sure if that is offered any longer)...have seen good and things I didnt agree with totally. I have learned over the years a few things...first , nobody is perfect as so many on here seem to hold as the standard for the family who has been running The Villages. Secondly, that nobody owes me or anyone anything. Do not recall anyone being tied up, told nothing and made to sign papers.

That family is selling off segments of the community and you will never find it to be as wonderful as when they were "running the show" !!

I agree with you Gracie....with all the complaining on here about The Villages and the family, with the ease of selling here and low rates in other places.....suggest that those folks go to that better place.

I have been happy here, not IDEAL or perfect...have not found that yet.....do not feel anyone owes me one single thing !!!!!

[English Ivy]

I believe that it your opinion.

I don't remember reading anything about what the IRS "believed".

If I were as unhappy and disappointed about this place and the developer as you appear to be...well...

Houses are easy to sell here..without loss.

Gracie, you are a very nice person and I think it is great that you and your family are so happy in The Villages.

You tell Mickey100 you "believe that it(sic) your opinion" regarding the appraisal valuation for the ammenities sold to the VCCDD. From all the reading I've done on the subject I believe Mickey is correct, but maybe I'm wrong.

However, I take exception with your statement that "houses are easy to sell here..without loss". That may be your opinion and experience from selling your first home in Hadley, but I know from my experience that it's probably the exception to the rule. Yes, you can sell a home in The Villages, but not without loss. You have stated this many times in your 10,000+ posts and I think you do a disservice to potential residents by giving them the impression that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason they will be able to sell and recoup their investment. Occasionally yes, all the time no.

I apologize if I've offended you but I felt it important to state this.

[janmcn]

The appraisal firms that set the value of the properties were tools of the district who did what they were told. They were not independent appraisers, as the IRS requires.

At one point the IRS said it believed 2003 Village Center Community Development District bonds overpaid Morse for golf courses and other structures. The bonds paid Morse $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. The district is trying to use the income stream argument, and, as we are all aware, the investigation is still ongoing, and these issues have not been resolved.

I was living here when Gary Morse was paid $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. Where I come from that is called a scam. People that complain about being scammed are told to move along, nothing to see here.

[Warren Kiefer]

Sorry, but I have one or two major issues with this thread! Among them:

1. The Vescos reportedly do not even live here. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is that statement thrown out?

2. Mr. Morse is reportedly a billionaire. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is this statement thrown out?

3. It's all the Vesco's personal bottom line. Why is this statement undocumented? On what authority is this statement thrown out?

Granted, if the parades are indeed cancelled due to a personal bottom line, then that is A Bad Thing. But, throwing out "factual statements" such as these without backing them up, that bothers me no end!

SWR
:beer3:

If you will check a recent Bloomberg report on Gary Morse you will get your authority. This report might interest you.

[Warren Kiefer]

I was living here when Gary Morse was paid $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. Where I come from that is called a scam. People that complain about being scammed are told to move along, nothing to see here.

Check out the sale of the Savannah Center. I cannot remember the exact figures but recall the build cost was 8 million blus and sold to the Villagers for over 80 million. The SDavannah Center is a major part of the IRS investigation into the past business practices of the Developer.

[Warren Kiefer]

I keep reading on this thread that we, the residents, have no say about what happens in our district. The following was copied from Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) and relates to District 6.
============
Now that you are generally familiar with the District concept, let's describe the election process and the Board of Supervisors who oversee the activities of the District. Initially, the Board of Supervisors, consisting of five members, is elected based on land ownership. The legislature, in creating Chapter 190, recognized that in order to maintain continuity of the facilities provided to the newly developing community, the developer, who then owns the majority of the land, should be granted the right to substantially complete the project as envisioned by the various land use and zoning approvals that were obtained as part of the development review process. However, the legislature also recognized that at the time control should transition to the residents. Tprescribed by statute, herefore, at the election held in 2006, three of the five Supervisors were elected by landowner vote (one vote per lot owned and/or one vote per acre owned). The same process will occur in 2008. In 2010, one supervisor will be elected by landowners and two supervisors will be elected by "qualified electors" (registered voters) residing in CDD No. 6. From that point forward, all elections will be qualified based elections. This election conversion format ensures that the residents ultimately control the level of service provided to the infrastructure facilities that the District maintains.

If one would make a sincere check of the facts, they would find that most of the Rec centers, etc are sold to the Villagers before the districts come under the control of the full board of supervisors are elected by the residents.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you are a very nice person and I think it is great that you and your family are so happy in The Villages.

You tell Mickey100 you "believe that it(sic) your opinion" regarding the appraisal valuation for the ammenities sold to the VCCDD. From all the reading I've done on the subject I believe Mickey is correct, but maybe I'm wrong.

However, I take exception with your statement that "houses are easy to sell here..without loss". That may be your opinion and experience from selling your first home in Hadley, but I know from my experience that it's probably the exception to the rule. Yes, you can sell a home in The Villages, but not without loss. You have stated this many times in your 10,000+ posts and I think you do a disservice to potential residents by giving them the impression that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason they will be able to sell and recoup their investment. Occasionally yes, all the time no.

I apologize if I've offended you but I felt it important to state this.

You have not offended me. That is my experience and I also know of a couple who lived across the street in Hadley that sold their house on the first day it was listed, they built a larger home here. One of my friends returned to Mobile, she was single and I think she wanted to return to her daughter and family, That took about a month, another friend sold her home also in Hadley to build another larger home here as they were going to live here full time and that took over two months. In our new neighborhood in Laurel Valley, a couple wanted to return to New England to be with family and put a sign out and sold it the second day.

HOWEVER these were all homes built and purchased since 2008. Now those purchased when the boom was going on all over the country were more expensive than these homes. I think that would be in 2005,2006 and perhaps earlier. When we were looking for a second home there were many homes built during the boom that were being offered for MUCH less than was paid for them.

If any of you want to know how much a house cost that is in Sumter county go to sumterpa.com and press search. I find it interesting.

Bill of Bill-n-Brillo has good advice on selling a home. We took it and sold our home in Cincinnati in nine days.

That is our experience English Ivy. We also owned a Camellia which is a very popular model. And we did not sell it for a lot more and we sold it decorated.

I hope you have been able to sell your house.

[Indydealmaker]

I was living here when Gary Morse was paid $60 million for amenities that only cost him $7.5 million to build. Where I come from that is called a scam. People that complain about being scammed are told to move along, nothing to see here.

How is that a scam? A business man sells at a profit. Where I come from, that is called capitalism. Is there a law that caps profits? The buyers of the bonds have made tons of money. The Villagers get a ton of use out of the amenities.

[lovesports]

Gracie, you are a very nice person and I think it is great that you and your family are so happy in The Villages.

You tell Mickey100 you "believe that it(sic) your opinion" regarding the appraisal valuation for the ammenities sold to the VCCDD. From all the reading I've done on the subject I believe Mickey is correct, but maybe I'm wrong.

However, I take exception with your statement that "houses are easy to sell here..without loss". That may be your opinion and experience from selling your first home in Hadley, but I know from my experience that it's probably the exception to the rule. Yes, you can sell a home in The Villages, but not without loss. You have stated this many times in your 10,000+ posts and I think you do a disservice to potential residents by giving them the impression that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason they will be able to sell and recoup their investment. Occasionally yes, all the time no.

I apologize if I've offended you but I felt it important to state this.

I agree English.
My personal experience-- bought my first home in 2006 in the Villages. -- Lost my shirt on it when I sold it in 2011.-- Bought a house in 2011 that had been on the market a year and they lost 60% from what they paid for it.
Homes are not appreciating in here at this time. A courtyard 3 bedroom across the golf course from us has been on the market for 2 years. They paid a great deal for this home and can't sale it. Some people can't walk away from their investment unlike others who can price low because they have large portfolios.

[Bogie Shooter]

Ahhh,,,,,,GRACIE......I am so with you.

I came here in 1999....took classes with Pete Wahl to find out about the "government" here (not sure if that is offered any longer)...have seen good and things I didnt agree with totally. I have learned over the years a few things...first , nobody is perfect as so many on here seem to hold as the standard for the family who has been running The Villages. Secondly, that nobody owes me or anyone anything. Do not recall anyone being tied up, told nothing and made to sign papers.

That family is selling off segments of the community and you will never find it to be as wonderful as when they were "running the show" !!

I agree with you Gracie....with all the complaining on here about The Villages and the family, with the ease of selling here and low rates in other places.....suggest that those folks go to that better place.

I have been happy here, not IDEAL or perfect...have not found that yet.....do not feel anyone owes me one single thing !!!!!

Classes still being offered.......see post #81

[Bogie Shooter]

If one would make a sincere check of the facts, they would find that most of the Rec centers, etc are sold to the Villagers before the districts come under the control of the full board of supervisors are elected by the residents.

Did I say something different than that?

[Indydealmaker]

Not all real estate marketers are created equally.

A neighbor behind me recently sold his 2010 home in one week. He had a hard time choosing between the 4 offers.

30 days later a neighbor in the same area sold her house in two weeks for even more $$.

When you buy during a real estate bubble (when speculating is rampant), you better flip it quick.

Another challenge in The Villages is the apparent condition that most buyers are buying their last home and they want everything new and the latest; then new cars and new toys for the house, etc. This puts existing homes at a bit of a disadvantage. However, this can easily be overcome by the right marketing plans; but not by sticking a for sale sign up and occasionally putting an ad in the paper.

[Bogie Shooter]

I agree English.
My personal experience-- bought my first home in 2006 in the Villages. -- Lost my shirt on it when I sold it in 2011.-- Bought a house in 2011 that had been on the market a year and they lost 60% from what they paid for it.
Homes are not appreciating in here at this time. A courtyard 3 bedroom across the golf course from us has been on the market for 2 years. They paid a great deal for this home and can't sale it. Some people can't walk away from their investment unlike others who can price low because they have large portfolios.

Had you been buying and selling "outside" TV, would your experience have been any different??
BTW why did you sell in 2011?

[lovesports]

Not all real estate marketers are created equally.

A neighbor behind me recently sold his 2010 home in one week. He had a hard time choosing between the 4 offers.

30 days later a neighbor in the same area sold her house in two weeks for even more $$.

When you buy during a real estate bubble (when speculating is rampant), you better flip it quick.

Another challenge in The Villages is the apparent condition that most buyers are buying their last home and they want everything new and the latest; then new cars and new toys for the house, etc. This puts existing homes at a bit of a disadvantage. However, this can easily be overcome by the right marketing plans; but not by sticking a for sale sign up and occasionally putting an ad in the paper.

Agree. I have sold 4 homes by myself. Sold my first home here in 5 min. and I know I under priced it. The courtyard belongs to a real-estate broker. He knows how to sell houses but can't afford to lose as much as it would take to get the right price. They are very disenchanted with the Villages and want to move back to Calif. which has high home prices. Those who bought on the top of the bubble are really taking losses when they sell.
All quiet here as I'm going to bed.

[lovesports]

Had you been buying and selling "outside" TV, would your experience have been any different??
BTW why did you sell in 2011?

Up where I came from, homes never bubbled up and never dropped down so I did great. Florida had a Hugh bubble so most places in Florida were like TV. Sold in 2011 and bought in 2011 because I had looked for 2 years for a bigger home with privacy views. Found the perfect house.

Good night.

[Bogie Shooter]

Up where I came from, homes never bubbled up and never dropped down so I did great. Florida had a Hugh bubble so most places in Florida were like TV. Sold in 2011 and bought in 2011 because I had looked for 2 years for a bigger home with privacy views. Found the perfect house.

Good night.

I see..............................

[Mack184]

Not all real estate marketers are created equally.

A neighbor behind me recently sold his 2010 home in one week. He had a hard time choosing between the 4 offers.

30 days later a neighbor in the same area sold her house in two weeks for even more $$.

When you buy during a real estate bubble (when speculating is rampant), you better flip it quick.

Another challenge in The Villages is the apparent condition that most buyers are buying their last home and they want everything new and the latest; then new cars and new toys for the house, etc. This puts existing homes at a bit of a disadvantage. However, this can easily be overcome by the right marketing plans; but not by sticking a for sale sign up and occasionally putting an ad in the paper.
When we first started looking for homes this past summer we were using TV realty company and also working with an outside MLS realtor. I'm not sure what the difference was, but if we found a home in TV that was listed with TVR they would often have a "pending" stamp on the website before we could finish our research, while homes in TV that were listed by various outside MLS realtors would, on the whole, be up for sale MUCH longer. Not sure why, but it just seemed to be the case.

[janmcn]

How is that a scam? A business man sells at a profit. Where I come from, that is called capitalism. Is there a law that caps profits? The buyers of the bonds have made tons of money. The Villagers get a ton of use out of the amenities.


IMO, it was a scam because the residents never had a say in how much the residents were going to pay for these assets. Evidently, the IRS thought the venture was so questionable that it required a five year plus investigation and a $58 million dollar fine.

[mickey100]

IMO, it was a scam because the residents never had a say in how much the residents were going to pay for these assets. Evidently, the IRS thought the venture was so questionable that it required a five year plus investigation and a $58 million dollar fine.

My thoughts as well Janmcn. For the record, many of us are happy with our clubs and activities and friendships in The Villages, but nobody but a fool would enjoy being scammed by unethical people or entities.:22yikes:

[perrjojo]

So we looked and rented in TV for 10 years before we finally bought. Our home here is equal to our previous home but at half the price. Our utilities here are half the price. Monthly fees for golf are half the price plus we have many swimming pools, softball fields, dance lessons, craft lessons, etc, etc. We live a beautifully landscaped and well maintained neighborhood. Our neighborhood is basically "self contained" which makes it easy for older residents to maintain their independence. Now, many of you tell me we have been scammed by a billionaire con artist..... I feel so foolish.:sing:

[livsea2]

Does the developer owe the residents free entertainment for life?

You paid for entainment for life. That's what the villages sells! You pay about 50% higher prices for cheaply built homes in a "disney world for adults" If it were not for the entertainment EVERY other 55+ community in Florida and I do mean EVERY one of them would be a better buy for your money.

My next question the the management would be what else do you plan to cut out as build out approaches.

[PennBF]

OK lets just understand..You live in a "Company Town" with continued control over your life which you signed away when you bought. If you believe the CDD's, Village Management, Rec Centers, Squares, etc. are not controled by the Developer and his family I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. If you believe you truly have representatives to look out in behalf of you the Bridge is still up for sale. If you believe there is competition going on in the area
of real estate, commercial rentals, etc. that Bridge is waiting for you.
I believe in reality and sticking the head in the sand and pretending all is up and in the open is having your head in the sand. Does all of this matter? Depends on who you are and what you want. But to pretend these don't exist is kind of outrages as it is a way to "look the other way". That is not healthy. By the way. I left out the Banks, Insurance, etc. Am I wrong but are you directed to the Company Business's when you buy? Most just move on
since they are excited about living in The Villages and I honestly understand
that.:wave:

[graciegirl]

My thoughts as well Janmcn. For the record, many of us are happy with our clubs and activities and friendships in The Villages, but nobody but a fool would enjoy being scammed by unethical people or entities.:22yikes:

Please sit down and allow me to tell you about retail business and how they make money.

When the buyers from Kohls sit down with the apparel reps to see the lines and they buy say, a pair of shorts or a few thousand to sell...That pair of shorts will cost them $7.00. They will put them on the rack to sell for $23 with their usual discount of 30% that nets them for sale at about $16.00.

If they do not sell they are placed on clearance for about $14.00. In the business that is called a "keystone markup" and that is how department stores make their money, employ the people who work there, pay for overhead, lights, water, cleaning etc. They make double on what they buy. Double. Just the usual thing.

That is how business is run.

It happens every day.

They don't advertise it. But people go in business to make money and in so doing they employ people who take the money and buy food at Publix and then that money goes to the farmers....

Free enterprise is not bad and if you make a lot of money you aren't "badder".

[Mack184]

Please sit down and allow me to tell you about retail business and how they make money.

When the buyers from Kohls sit down with the apparel reps to see the lines and they buy say, a pair of shorts or a few thousand to sell...That pair of shorts will cost them $7.00. They will put them on the rack to sell for $19.99 with their usual discount of 30% that nets them for sale at about $16.00.

If they do not sell they are placed on clearance for about $14.00. In the business that is called a "keystone markup" and that is how department stores make their money, employ the people who work there, pay for overhead, lights, water, cleaning etc. They make double on what they buy. Double. Just the usual thing.

That is how business is run.

It happens every day.

They don't advertise it. But people go in business to make money and in so doing they employ people who take the money and buy food at Publix and then that money goes to the farmers....

Free enterprise is not bad and if you make a lot of money you aren't "badder".
Amen! Amen!! & AMEN!!!

[perrjojo]

OK lets just understand..You live in a "Company Town" with continued control over your life which you signed away when you bought. If you believe the CDD's, Village Management, Rec Centers, Squares, etc. are not controled by the Developer and his family I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. If you believe you truly have representatives to look out in behalf of you the Bridge is still up for sale. If you believe there is competition going on in the area
of real estate, commercial rentals, etc. that Bridge is waiting for you.
I believe in reality and sticking the head in the sand and pretending all is up and in the open is having your head in the sand. Does all of this matter? Depends on who you are and what you want. But to pretend these don't exist is kind of outrages as it is a way to "look the other way". That is not healthy. By the way. I left out the Banks, Insurance, etc. Am I wrong but are you directed to the Company Business's when you buy? Most just move on
since they are excited about living in The Villages and I honestly understand
that.:wave:


Do you live here? If you do, I am sorry you feel controlled. I do NOT feel controlled at all. I do not use The Company Bank, listen to the company radio station or TV station. I shop at publicly owned stores such as Publix, Belk, etc., etc. I do however choose to let someone else manage the entertainment venues, landscaping, maintenance on recs centers etc, etc. Do I have to pay for those services? Of course I do. I do so by my choice and free will. Oh, BTW way, I am not interested in any real estate in Brooklyn. You may keep the bridge for yourself because I love our Company Town.

[janmcn]

Please sit down and allow me to tell you about retail business and how they make money.

When the buyers from Kohls sit down with the apparel reps to see the lines and they buy say, a pair of shorts or a few thousand to sell...That pair of shorts will cost them $7.00. They will put them on the rack to sell for $23 with their usual discount of 30% that nets them for sale at about $16.00.

If they do not sell they are placed on clearance for about $14.00. In the business that is called a "keystone markup" and that is how department stores make their money, employ the people who work there, pay for overhead, lights, water, cleaning etc. They make double on what they buy. Double. Just the usual thing.

That is how business is run.

It happens every day.

They don't advertise it. But people go in business to make money and in so doing they employ people who take the money and buy food at Publix and then that money goes to the farmers....

Free enterprise is not bad and if you make a lot of money you aren't "badder".

Normally, during a negotiation there are two people at the table...the person doing the selling and the person doing the buying. In the case of the developer selling his assets to the residents, there was only one person at the table...the developer setting the price. There was no negotiation on the price, ICYMI.

Why did this case get the attention of the IRS, and why did the IRS refuse the developer's offer to settle for several million dollars?

[graciegirl]

Normally, during a negotiation there are two people at the table...the person doing the selling and the person doing the buying. In the case of the developer selling his assets to the residents, there was only one person at the table...the developer setting the price. There was no negotiation on the price, ICYMI.

Why did this case get the attention of the IRS, and why did the IRS refuse the developer's offer to settle for several million dollars?

What I heard is that it was the OTHER WAY AROUND, the developer refused to settle for several million dollars because he thought it would destroy the CDD concept.

That was five years ago. Unless you have information I am not aware of I had not heard of any money changing hands.

The person who knows the answer is Edvin Mass or EdV. He keeps abreast of all this.

ED!

[Bogie Shooter]

You paid for entainment for life. That's what the villages sells! You pay about 50% higher prices for cheaply built homes in a "disney world for adults" If it were not for the entertainment EVERY other 55+ community in Florida and I do mean EVERY one of them would be a better buy for your money.

My next question the the management would be what else do you plan to cut out as build out approaches.

Which village did you buy in?

[Bogie Shooter]

OK lets just understand..You live in a "Company Town" with continued control over your life which you signed away when you bought. If you believe the CDD's, Village Management, Rec Centers, Squares, etc. are not controled by the Developer and his family I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. If you believe you truly have representatives to look out in behalf of you the Bridge is still up for sale. If you believe there is competition going on in the area
of real estate, commercial rentals, etc. that Bridge is waiting for you.
I believe in reality and sticking the head in the sand and pretending all is up and in the open is having your head in the sand. Does all of this matter? Depends on who you are and what you want. But to pretend these don't exist is kind of outrages as it is a way to "look the other way". That is not healthy. By the way. I left out the Banks, Insurance, etc. Am I wrong but are you directed to the Company Business's when you buy? Most just move on
since they are excited about living in The Villages and I honestly understand
that.:wave:

Which village did you buy in?

[PennBF]

As with many things some avoid reality and I would not like to be the one
to bring reality to them as in some cases it may be a little too traumatic. Given that this should be my last post on the subject since I failed to recognize the nature of the discussion. If some want to believe this is an open democratic way then so be it. Usually this is a way of "pretending" and that is their right.
:mornincoffee:

[graciegirl]

As with many things some avoid reality and I would not like to be the one
to bring reality to them as in some cases it may be a little too traumatic. Given that this should be my last post on the subject since I failed to recognize the nature of the discussion. If some want to believe this is an open democratic way then so be it. Usually this is a way of "pretending" and that is their right.
:mornincoffee:

Which Village did you buy in?

[perrjojo]

As with many things some avoid reality and I would not like to be the one
to bring reality to them as in some cases it may be a little too traumatic. Given that this should be my last post on the subject since I failed to recognize the nature of the discussion. If some want to believe this is an open democratic way then so be it. Usually this is a way of "pretending" and that is their right.
:mornincoffee:

The suggestion that those of us loving The Villages are avoiding reality or are somehow intellectually inferior to you is offensive. I have lived all over the world for 69 years and my freedoms have in NO way been compromised by living here. Just as I was free to live here after many years of study and watching TV grow, I am equally free to leave. I feel certain that you do not live here or you would realized that. Is this place perfect..of course not but it suits 80,000 plus of us just fine.

[perrjojo]

Which village did you buy in?


I luv this..probably not living here

[perrjojo]

Which village did you buy in?

LUV your post!

[perrjojo]

:posting::posting:

I have made this comment before but it seems appropriate once again. TOTV is a wonderful forum for wanna bes and newcomers. It is a wonderful place for those living here wanting to keep in touch and up to date on what is going on around the Villages. It does however; amaze me that there are many posters who have even said they do not live here and would not ever want to live here. Some have even said that they never have even been here. If that is the case why do these same posters have hundreds and sometimes over a thousand posts on this forum? Most of their post are critical and negative in nature. Why do they care how it is done here? And if this is such a bad place, why do they spend hours of their time reading and responding to these posting? I' m curious, that's all.

[gerryann]

they're bored and have nothing else to do!

[Bill-n-Brillo]

:popcorn:

Bill :wave:

[ugotme]

:popcorn:

:police:

[mickey100]

OK lets just understand..You live in a "Company Town" with continued control over your life which you signed away when you bought. If you believe the CDD's, Village Management, Rec Centers, Squares, etc. are not controled by the Developer and his family I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. If you believe you truly have representatives to look out in behalf of you the Bridge is still up for sale. If you believe there is competition going on in the area
of real estate, commercial rentals, etc. that Bridge is waiting for you.
I believe in reality and sticking the head in the sand and pretending all is up and in the open is having your head in the sand. Does all of this matter? Depends on who you are and what you want. But to pretend these don't exist is kind of outrageous as it is a way to "look the other way". That is not healthy. By the way. I left out the Banks, Insurance, etc. Am I wrong but are you directed to the Company Business's when you buy? Most just move on
since they are excited about living in The Villages and I honestly understand
that.:wave:

Yes, some people are just too stubborn or defensive, or naive to admit that there might be something less than perfect about The villages and/or the Morses. There is the usual "surround the wagons" mentality, attack those who might dare to criticize. Make those who question the workings of things here and raise legitimate questions, out to be "jealous" or not understanding of how big business works, etc. We've seen it all before on these forums, from the same group of people. The thing is, many of us are very successful business people in our own right, and for a reason. We don't take everything that is handed to us on a platter - we reason, we use common sense, we educate ourselves, and if something smells fishy, it usually is. The IRS would not be committing the time and manpower to pursue their claims against the Villages unless they really suspect fraud. I've been around long enough to realize that where there's smoke, there's fire. If some people want to bury their heads in the sand, its really of no concern or interest to me. But I plan on staying on top of things, and it comes to the point of a class action lawsuit, which it may depending on the outcome of the IRS investigation, I will be the first one to sign up.:wave:

[mulligan]

IMHO, the IRS is spending so much time on our bonds because it's not covered in the manual, they have absolutely no idea what they're looking at, and as of now, not one agent has had the balls to accuse anyone of anything.

[graciegirl]

Yes, some people are just too stubborn or defensive, or naive to admit that there might be something less than perfect about The villages and/or the Morses. There is the usual "surround the wagons" mentality, attack those who might dare to criticize. Make those who question the workings of things here and raise legitimate questions, out to be "jealous" or not understanding of how big business works, etc. We've seen it all before on these forums, from the same group of people. The thing is, many of us are very successful business people in our own right, and for a reason. We don't take everything that is handed to us on a platter - we reason, we use common sense, we educate ourselves, and if something smells fishy, it usually is. The IRS would not be committing the time and manpower to pursue their claims against the Villages unless they really suspect fraud. I've been around long enough to realize that where there's smoke, there's fire. If some people want to bury their heads in the sand, its really of no concern or interest to me. But I plan on staying on top of things, and it comes to the point of a class action lawsuit, which it may depending on the outcome of the IRS investigation, I will be the first one to sign up.:wave:

I went back to read your posts so as to understand you better and I thought you were a guy. Mickey mouse is a guy. You are a girl, or a guy who had his highlights fixed at the beauty shop. I am betting you are a girl.

You are an excellent golfer shooting two under and play ready golf.

You are from upper middle New York State.

And you seem happy here.

But the IRS has been examining this for five years now and changed agents twice and still going on. It could be fraud and it could be that the Morses did not want to have the CDD system change.

One of us could be wrong. Who is the most stubborn? lol.

[mickey100]

IMHO, the IRS is spending so much time on our bonds because it's not covered in the manual, they have absolutely no idea what they're looking at, and as of now, not one agent has had the balls to accuse anyone of anything.

Actually, they have accused and offered a settlement, and the developer refused to settle, so the IRS has notched up the investigation another step and has taken a look at additional years bonds.

This discussion has really gone beyond the original scope of the posting - which is the POA. They have done a wonderful job of keeping us posted on events of importance to the residents. If anyone is interested in the IRS business and the ethics, or lack of, of the Morses, it has been discussed many times in various threads on TOTV, just do a search. We all have our own opinions, and won't be changing any minds here. But I do like to see the facts out in the open for prospective buyers to know before they buy here.:wave:

[Bogie Shooter]

Actually, they have accused and offered a settlement, and the developer refused to settle, so the IRS has notched up the investigation another step and has taken a look at additional years bonds.

This discussion has really gone beyond the original scope of the posting - which is the POA. They have done a wonderful job of keeping us posted on events of importance to the residents. If anyone is interested in the IRS business and the ethics, or lack of, of the Morses, it has been discussed many times in various threads on TOTV, just do a search. We all have our own opinions, and won't be changing any minds here. But I do like to see the facts out in the open for prospective buyers to know before they buy here.:wave:

Yes, good that they know. Unfortunately too many posters always put the doomsday claim somewhere in their post.....over and over!

[Advogado]

Yes, good that they know. Unfortunately too many posters always put the doomsday claim somewhere in their post.....over and over!

The IRS investigation is moving slowly, and I am not impressed with the IRS's handling of it. However, it is, by far, the most important issue facing Villagers today. As the investigation creeps along, the Center Districts are losing "over and over". Thus, the subject appears here "over and over".

It is not a bad idea for Villagers to keep up with developments in an issue that potentially could have a huge impact on them. The easiest way to keep up with the factual developments is to follow reports in the POA Bulletin, since the VHA newsletter and Daily Sun have both failed miserably in their obligation to objectively report on the matter and the Orlando Sentinel seems to have lost interest. Since the TOTV is a forum to exchange views concerning matters of interest to Villagers, it certainly seems appropriate that the subject of the IRS investigation appear "over and over" here.

[graciegirl]

The IRS investigation is moving slowly, and I am not impressed with the IRS's handling of it. However, it is, by far, the most important issue facing Villagers today. As the investigation creeps along, the Center Districts are losing "over and over". Thus, the subject appears here "over and over".

It is not a bad idea for Villagers to keep up with developments in an issue that potentially could have a huge impact on them. The easiest way to keep up with the factual developments is to follow reports in the POA Bulletin, since the VHA newsletter and Daily Sun have both failed miserably in their obligation to objectively report on the matter and the Orlando Sentinel seems to have lost interest. Since the TOTV is a forum to exchange views concerning matters of interest to Villagers, it certainly seems appropriate that the subject of the IRS investigation appear "over and over" here.

I often wonder Advogado, How do you hope the IRS matter turns out?????

[Bogie Shooter]

The IRS investigation is moving slowly, and I am not impressed with the IRS's handling of it. However, it is, by far, the most important issue facing Villagers today. As the investigation creeps along, the Center Districts are losing "over and over". Thus, the subject appears here "over and over".

It is not a bad idea for Villagers to keep up with developments in an issue that potentially could have a huge impact on them. The easiest way to keep up with the factual developments is to follow reports in the POA Bulletin, since the VHA newsletter and Daily Sun have both failed miserably in their obligation to objectively report on the matter and the Orlando Sentinel seems to have lost interest. Since the TOTV is a forum to exchange views concerning matters of interest to Villagers, it certainly seems appropriate that the subject of the IRS investigation appear "over and over" here.

Exchanging views over and over is not factual reporting, only a rehashing of opinion.
BTW Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org) has all the documents relating to this issue posted on the website.

[janmcn]

People can google IRS vs The Villages and 954,000 hits come up. Take your pick.

[graciegirl]

People can google IRS vs The Villages and 954,000 hits come up. Take your pick.

And I have always wondered how YOU hope it turns out.

[Bucco]

I know that nobody cares about my opinion but that never stopped me before

I was done with this thread until I read the owners are pulling a "scam" and complaints about being pushed toward their owned or endorsed insurance companies, etc.

In 1999, NOBODY...NOBODY would open a business here. The family wanted a full service community and spent so much money and time BEGGING companies, stores, etc to come to The Villages. I mean they spent almost all there time begging.

In order to keep the dream alive they started their own business in a lot of areas. Soon Win Dixie came...not sure of the timing on that but they were the first to "take a chance" in The Villages. Soon, the success was apparent and they began to come.

I have no problem with the developer pushing business into companies and/or businesses he created to serve the resident.

Again, I do not know if anyone ever took the course to learn about the CDDs where you learn and could inquire and ask whatever you want about any aspect of it. Nothing was hidden......everyone knew the family was working overtime to get services here and THEY BROUGHT THEM HERE...none of you posters did.

The commercial business in The Villages did not just get here nor did those business's "discover" The Villages.

If you are going to call the family scam artists or whatever, then please do your research before just simply calling them names

[Bogie Shooter]

People can google IRS vs The Villages and 954,000 hits come up. Take your pick.

And 953,000 are on TOTV.............:eek:

[Advogado]

I often wonder Advogado, How do you hope the IRS matter turns out?????
As a Villager who would be impacted if the IRS imposes its original proposed remedy, I have hoped, ever since I became aware of the investigation, that the IRS would address the issue prospectively--by means of a Regulation dealing with FUTURE Community Development Districts' issuance of tax exempt bonds. The National Association of Bond Lawyers has now proposed that solution in a letter to the IRS.

[perrjojo]

I know that nobody cares about my opinion but that never stopped me before

I was done with this thread until I read the owners are pulling a "scam" and complaints about being pushed toward their owned or endorsed insurance companies, etc.

In 1999, NOBODY...NOBODY would open a business here. The family wanted a full service community and spent so much money and time BEGGING companies, stores, etc to come to The Villages. I mean they spent almost all there time begging.

In order to keep the dream alive they started their own business in a lot of areas. Soon Win Dixie came...not sure of the timing on that but they were the first to "take a chance" in The Villages. Soon, the success was apparent and they began to come.

I have no problem with the developer pushing business into companies and/or businesses he created to serve the resident.

Again, I do not know if anyone ever took the course to learn about the CDDs where you learn and could inquire and ask whatever you want about any aspect of it. Nothing was hidden......everyone knew the family was working overtime to get services here and THEY BROUGHT THEM HERE...none of you posters did.

The commercial business in The Villages did not just get here nor did those business's "discover" The Villages.

If you are going to call the family scam artists or whatever, then please do your research before just simply calling them names

I agree. The Villages was out in the middle of "no where". The Residents needed a bank..the developers provided one..needed a mortgage company, the need was filled, needed insurance company .needed medical services and hospitals. These services and MANY others were provided to ensure the success of the developement and the developers made money but, guess what? We all benefited!

[janmcn]

And I have always wondered how YOU hope it turns out.

I hope the matter is resolved to everybody's satisfaction, and the residents, who did nothing wrong, don't get stuck paying the bill.

[mickey100]

Agree - it certainly is the most important issue that we as residents are facing. We're very grateful that the POA is doing such a great job of reporting.

The IRS investigation is moving slowly, and I am not impressed with the IRS's handling of it. However, it is, by far, the most important issue facing Villagers today. As the investigation creeps along, the Center Districts are losing "over and over". Thus, the subject appears here "over and over".

It is not a bad idea for Villagers to keep up with developments in an issue that potentially could have a huge impact on them. The easiest way to keep up with the factual developments is to follow reports in the POA Bulletin, since the VHA newsletter and Daily Sun have both failed miserably in their obligation to objectively report on the matter and the Orlando Sentinel seems to have lost interest. Since the TOTV is a forum to exchange views concerning matters of interest to Villagers, it certainly seems appropriate that the subject of the IRS investigation appear "over and over" here.

[PennBF]

A very famous Comedian who has a very large staff once said in an interview that it is easy to manage persons/employees who are knowledgeable and rather smart and know it as they have educated themselve on subjects. It is
very hard to manage persons/employee's who have not done their homework,
are not very smart BUT believe they are. Who have given or provided
opinions have actually studied the subjects and are knowledgeable as opposed to those who rely on what they want reality to be and really don't know the facts or background. How many can describe the policies/practices
of the Amenities vs Project Wide, how many can describe what decisions have been by their CDD's and why, how many have educated themselves on the IRS issue and understand the potential impacts on the residents, how many can discuss the difference between a person selling real estate in The Villages vs an outside real estate agency, how many have taken the time to get involved in residents issues, how many can discuss the various requirements to open and run a business in The Villages, how many have actually been involved in the changes and background of The Villages entertainment practices and policy real or potential future impacts on the residents, how many truly understand how the village's management who set policy and practices are elected or appointed, who controls them and how the system works. Hopefully I have made my point that if someone is going to offer an opinion they should know the history, background and the details of what they are talking about. They should not rely on rumors, what they
would like it to be vs what it really is or worse just guess. :mornincoffee:

[Skybo]

How many can describe the policies/practices of the Amenities vs Project Wide, how many can describe what decisions have been by their CDD's and why, how many have educated themselves on the IRS issue and understand the potential impacts on the residents, how many can discuss the difference between a person selling real estate in The Villages vs an outside real estate agency, how many have taken the time to get involved in residents issues, how many can discuss the various requirements to open and run a business in The Villages, how many have actually been involved in the changes and background of The Villages entertainment practices and policy real or potential future impacts on the residents, how many truly understand how the village's management who set policy and practices are elected or appointed, who controls them and how the system works. Hopefully I have made my point that if someone is going to offer an opinion they should know the history, background and the details of what they are talking about. They should not rely on rumors, what they
would like it to be vs what it really is or worse just guess. :mornincoffee:

No...I don't know the answer to most of those questions. I assume that you do, so could you please fill me in?

[graciegirl]

A very famous Comedian who has a very large staff once said in an interview that it is easy to manage persons/employees who are knowledgeable and rather smart and know it as they have educated themselve on subjects. It is
very hard to manage persons/employee's who have not done their homework,
are not very smart BUT believe they are. Who have given or provided
opinions have actually studied the subjects and are knowledgeable as opposed to those who rely on what they want reality to be and really don't know the facts or background. How many can describe the policies/practices
of the Amenities vs Project Wide, how many can describe what decisions have been by their CDD's and why, how many have educated themselves on the IRS issue and understand the potential impacts on the residents, how many can discuss the difference between a person selling real estate in The Villages vs an outside real estate agency, how many have taken the time to get involved in residents issues, how many can discuss the various requirements to open and run a business in The Villages, how many have actually been involved in the changes and background of The Villages entertainment practices and policy real or potential future impacts on the residents, how many truly understand how the village's management who set policy and practices are elected or appointed, who controls them and how the system works. Hopefully I have made my point that if someone is going to offer an opinion they should know the history, background and the details of what they are talking about. They should not rely on rumors, what they
would like it to be vs what it really is or worse just guess. :mornincoffee:

Alright...Please explain what are the requirements to open and run a business in The Villages.

You have offered an impression that you know how this is done and what made you mention that part?

[PennBF]

I don't think that anywhere in my note/input I indicated I was an authority on the subjects although there has been a number of implied knowledge by others with a minimum of analysis and absent of the detailed supporting data. I think, given the right forum I could give some details regarding the differences/abuses between amenities and project wide. I would truly be interested if anyone can isolate one of the subjects in my note and provide a true detailed analysis.
Regarding the direct question as to "opening a business" in the Villages. It would be relevant to understand what percentages the Owners are allowed to take home, why some close, is there any dscussion as to what support the residents will provide, (e.g. usage of Project Wide funding from residents,etc) to absorbe/assume costs to some business? Describing basic business attributes does not describe The Villages policies and practices. How many regulary attend their CDD meetings, etc.?
Again, it would be interesting if any of these subjects have in fact been studied in detail and what were the results? As defined in the Oxford Dictionary a question is "raising an issue for further consideration or discussion". It should not be used to try to damage the person raising a question. That is a good way to destroy discussion:wave:

[rubicon]

As a vet of the political board, I must admit I am a bit taken back by these accusations aimed at some unknown poster.

Mocking....stalking....pretty serious charges !!

Does this kind of thing actually happen on here ? I am used to barbs, etc on the political forum (closed and ceremoniously piled on by folks who never were there and admit to it), and to my knowledge anything on the political was pretty much upfront (you could see it).

I may be naive but if the accusations made are accurate, the political area may have been the most civil.

Bucco: Amen! I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. A part of this seems to be associated with the different outlook people have toward the Developer. Some seem to view this Enitity in a paternalistic manner while others see this Entity at minimum as a very agressive (take no prisoners) businessman while the IRS Proposal of Issues implied more.

Another part of it is The Villages concept while not new has been expanded well beyond anyone's expectations and with this expansion has brought new and unusual problems, not to forget its benefits.

So that one way or another people are either fearful of, anxious or both as to what the future is holding for its residents.

Personally I believe it is a huge mistake to view the original Developer or its predecessors in a paternalistic light in the same manner and reason it applies to corporations which of course the Developer is. You may love a corporation but as many people can attest a corporation can't and won't love you back. And that's � fact, Jack.

[Moderator]

This thread is hopelessly off topic and will be closed.

These personal back and forth attacks will not be tolerated. Please either use the ignore user function, report posts that you think are personal, or take a break from the board. This board is no one's bully pulpit.

It is a place for an open, civil exchange of ideas and information.