What does "drinking the kool-aid" really mean?

[senior citizen]

Drinking the Kool-Aid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drinking_the_Kool-Aid&printable=yes)



What does “Drinking the Kool-Aid” really mean.......?

[Uptown Girl]

Drinking the Kool-Aid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drinking_the_Kool-Aid&printable=yes)



What does “Drinking the Kool-Aid” really mean.......?

Do you mean in terms of The Villages?
It's an unattractive way to say you have become sold on living here.

[Taltarzac725]

It does seem offensive especially with its relationship to the Jonestown Massacre. Seem to recall at least one TOTVer who had a relative who died in that tragedy.

[senior citizen]

It does seem offensive especially with its relationship to the Jonestown Massacre. Seem to recall at least one TOTVer who had a relative who died in that tragedy.

I just wanted to clarify, for myself, what it really meant as lots of folks on this forum do say it now and again.

First time I really paid attention to that term about the Kool-Aid was re Casey Anthony and her missing daughter.

[senior citizen]

Do you mean in terms of The Villages?
It's an unattractive way to say you have become sold on living here.

I know I haven't had any Kool-Aid. Just wanted to see what it actually refers to.

[2BNTV]

Do you mean in terms of The Villages?
It's an unattractive way to say you have become sold on living here.

:agree: Hit the nail on the head.

[Taltarzac725]

I just wanted to clarify, for myself, what it really meant as lots of folks on this forum do say it now and again.

First time I really paid attention to that term about the Kool-Aid was re Casey Anthony and her missing daughter.

It sure comes up in a lot of the articles on Casey Anthony. I try not to use it because of the TOTVer who had mentioned having a relative who died at Jonestown.

[OldDave]

Last spring we had a bit of discussion about this as a part of a different thread. I cannot remember what that thread was, but I do remember a couple of things.

I read through the Wikipedia definition you listed. I think it's pretty much on the nose. In the case of the Villages, it doesn't mean you like living here. It means you are totally devoted to the place to the point that you refuse to hear or recognize anything negative, even if it is clearly true.

I think this comes up with things like the post a couple of days ago by a woman worried about the recent accidents and whether this was common here. While she eventually got several good responses, most of them really dispelling her worry, the first few were very defensive of TV, and a couple even rude.

I've mentioned this sort of attitude a couple of times and continue to be puzzled by it. This place has some really wonderful, unique things. Like any place else it has some issues. Pretending there are no negatives just doesn't make sense to me. I think when people have such knee jerk reactions to reasonable questions, it makes new people feel like there is something to hide here. I think it actually adds to some people's paranoia. Those people that take the time to make serious, well thought out answers do a much better job of selling the place in the long run, at least they did to me.

I will say one other thing about the kool-aid term. During the earlier thread I mentioned in the spring, I got a message from a guy who was really hurt by the use of the term. He in fact had a friend who died there. (That may be what you are remembering.) I apologized on the thread and have tried to avoid using that term any longer. Unfortunately, it really does describe the kind of blind faith that Jonestown represented. While I will try hard never to use it again, I'm afraid it's become part of our language.

[graciegirl]

Last spring we had a bit of discussion about this as a part of a different thread. I cannot remember what that thread was, but I do remember a couple of things.

I read through the Wikipedia definition you listed. I think it's pretty much on the nose. In the case of the Villages, it doesn't mean you like living here. It means you are totally devoted to the place to the point that you refuse to hear or recognize anything negative, even if it is clearly true.

I think this comes up with things like the post a couple of days ago by a woman worried about the recent accidents and whether this was common here. While she eventually got several good responses, most of them really dispelling her worry, the first few were very defensive of TV, and a couple even rude.

I've mentioned this sort of attitude a couple of times and continue to be puzzled by it. This place has some really wonderful, unique things. Like any place else it has some issues. Pretending there are no negatives just doesn't make sense to me. I think when people have such knee jerk reactions to reasonable questions, it makes new people feel like there is something to hide here. I think it actually adds to some people's paranoia. Those people that take the time to make serious, well thought out answers do a much better job of selling the place in the long run, at least they did to me.

I will say one other thing about the kool-aid term. During the earlier thread I mentioned in the spring, I got a message from a guy who was really hurt by the use of the term. He in fact had a friend who died there. (That may be what you are remembering.) I apologized on the thread and have tried to avoid using that term any longer. Unfortunately, it really does describe the kind of blind faith that Jonestown represented. While I will try hard never to use it again, I'm afraid it's become part of our language.

It isn't a guy, Dave, it is a girl.

And I try not to use the term for her sake.

There is NO reason for anyone to be rude, snarky, snipey or just plain mean to anyone on this forum because we disagree with them. Some of us who others label as K.A. drinkers are just positive souls and try very hard to keep the truth out there. It is just as offensive to be negative when there is no reason for it to us positive folks. We aren't dim witted, we don't work for the Morses, we don't gain anything by our attitude that this place is dang nigh perfect. It is HOW we perceive it.

There is a group of folks who for their own private reasons feel that NOTHING is perfect enough to celebrate, and others who are jealous of people financially more well off, and others who suspect that all big business is corrupt.

Naturally anyone thinking to move here would have to think just as WE did that this is WAY too good to be true. I was VERY suspicious after we came here the first time. WHAT is going on there. That was five years ago and it is still as nice as when we were looking at it, but I now feel so good about our choice to move here.

We don't need to encourage anyone to live here, they are coming in droves. WHO we need to encourage are happy souls, good drivers, people who want to enjoy life and get along with others. The other kind are kinda making me all snarley.

[mgm4444]

Last spring we had a bit of discussion about this as a part of a different thread. I cannot remember what that thread was, but I do remember a couple of things.

I read through the Wikipedia definition you listed. I think it's pretty much on the nose. In the case of the Villages, it doesn't mean you like living here. It means you are totally devoted to the place to the point that you refuse to hear or recognize anything negative, even if it is clearly true.

I think this comes up with things like the post a couple of days ago by a woman worried about the recent accidents and whether this was common here. While she eventually got several good responses, most of them really dispelling her worry, the first few were very defensive of TV, and a couple even rude.

I've mentioned this sort of attitude a couple of times and continue to be puzzled by it. This place has some really wonderful, unique things. Like any place else it has some issues. Pretending there are no negatives just doesn't make sense to me. I think when people have such knee jerk reactions to reasonable questions, it makes new people feel like there is something to hide here. I think it actually adds to some people's paranoia. Those people that take the time to make serious, well thought out answers do a much better job of selling the place in the long run, at least they did to me.

I will say one other thing about the kool-aid term. During the earlier thread I mentioned in the spring, I got a message from a guy who was really hurt by the use of the term. He in fact had a friend who died there. (That may be what you are remembering.) I apologized on the thread and have tried to avoid using that term any longer. Unfortunately, it really does describe the kind of blind faith that Jonestown represented. While I will try hard never to use it again, I'm afraid it's become part of our language.


Old Dave - Just yesterday, after reading about the thread on the accidents, my very first thought was I'm glad I'm not a newbie, anymore, on this forum. I would probably never ask any questions for fear of people jumping all over me. I would have never came here to look around. Or bought. I can't help to think some of the responses here turn alot of people off. A couple of years ago, you'd get maybe one or two people who gave attitude, but it's happening almost every day now, on here. Attitude, defensiveness, being sarcastic. I don't think the newbies know there are thousands more Villagers that are out having fun, joining clubs, at the pools, squares, etc. There's still good info on here, but this forum sure has changed in a few years. I don't log on as much just because of this kind of thing. Everyone on this forum was once a newbie, and alot of people forget that. It's very sad.

[billethkid]

the saying was around long before Jonestown and Casey Anthony.

I would venture a guess that over 99% who use the cliche' have absolutely no reference to Jonestown or Anthony.

It usually has one of or all multiple conotations i.e usually in the vein of implying one not knowing what they are doing/talking about. And even if they do and the other disagrees the cliche' is used similarly. Hence it's much used status in political discussions.

Just as simple as that!!!!!!

btk

Very akin to the other cliche', you must be out to lunch!!

[graciegirl]

Do you mean in terms of The Villages?
It's an unattractive way to say you have become sold on living here.

This is the truth, without embellishment, without sarcasm, and without being defensive.

(and without my usual "sermon". lol)

As usual, good stuff from that Uptown Girl:pepper2:

[OldDave]

Gracie, I always appreciate that you take time to explain your thoughts, even though you are a bit "enthusiastic" at times. I know it is sincere. btw, the person who sent me a personal message about Jonestown, was not a girl. He is someone who I've become friends with on here. So if you know a girl, there are at least two people on here who were personally touched by that tragedy.

I have heard that "drinking the kool-aid" is older than Jonestown. I thought so too, but I have tried to find an earlier reference and haven't been able to do so, if someone has I'd like to see it.

MGM, you stated things very well. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm truly not sure if the people who snap at newbies really mean to be rude or what. As I said earlier it truly puzzles me. As Gracie said people are coming in droves. Maybe those grumpy folks are just trying to slow down the growth.

[redwitch]

I hate the term. I was one of those who lost people dear to me at Jonestown, including a young man I taught to drive and a girl I babysat and, of course, their parents. It was almost impossible to live in the Bay Area during that time and not be personally affected. "Drinking the Kool-Aide" is beyond offensive to me. It is truly painful.

[eweissenbach]

Gracie, I always appreciate that you take time to explain your thoughts, even though you are a bit "enthusiastic" at times. I know it is sincere. btw, the person who sent me a personal message about Jonestown, was not a girl. He is someone who I've become friends with on here. So if you know a girl, there are at least two people on here who were personally touched by that tragedy.

I have heard that "drinking the kool-aid" is older than Jonestown. I thought so too, but I have tried to find an earlier reference and haven't been able to do so, if someone has I'd like to see it.

MGM, you stated things very well. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm truly not sure if the people who snap at newbies really mean to be rude or what. As I said earlier it truly puzzles me. As Gracie said people are coming in droves. Maybe those grumpy folks are just trying to slow down the growth.

I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

[2BNTV]

Posted by Gracie:

We don't need to encourage anyone to live here, they are coming in droves. WHO we need to encourage are happy souls, good drivers, people who want to enjoy life and get along with others.

:agree: I know TV is not perfect, (no place is), but it's it has a high concentration of happy people that I plan to enjoy times with. People are as happy as they make up their minds to be - A. Lincoln

Not all people are agreeable in nature but one has to have tolerance for others point of view. Agreeing to disagree is the best option for me. TV is a perfect place for me and that's what counts.

[LynnDeb]

:a040:If we all thought and felt the same way, we would have a boring life

[duffysmom]

I too do not believe that "drinking the KA" is older than Jonestown. There is a member of TOTV who lost her mother and sister at Jonestown and finds the reference painful. Enough said.

[jbdlfan]

It's sort ironic that it comes up as a reference to living here. It is a term that many of the employees use on a regular basis. I realize some may find the phrase painful and offensive, I guess thats the part I find ironic. Many employees feel they are "forced" to speak and act in a particular way in order to keep their job. In other words, you are not to speak your true opinion if it differs with "It's a beautiful day in The Villages." Flame away.....

[graciegirl]

It's sort ironic that it comes up as a reference to living here. It is a term that many of the employees use on a regular basis. I realize some may find the phrase painful and offensive, I guess thats the part I find ironic. Many employees feel they are "forced" to speak and act in a particular way in order to keep their job. In other words, you are not to speak your true opinion if it differs with "It's a beautiful day in The Villages." Flame away.....

Employees WHERE? At restaurants here in TV? As an ambassador at the Sales Center?

At Where? I guess that WOULD make sense if most of your customers were mostly villagers. When you are employed it would be a good idea to act nice and do what is expected. I have found that you keep your job longer..

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Please help me see what you meant.

[jbdlfan]

I said "forced" in quotes because I don't feel anybody is ever forced to take or keep a job. But no, not entertainment type of positions, more on the corporate side. And I certainly hope you are not questioning the veracity of the statement, but in case you are, I have firsthand knowledge. Not someone told me this kind of stuff. Not really even my point, the point was more to the irony of residents speaking this way when I've heard this mostly from employees. To many of them it's just a big joke.

[senior citizen]

...................

[OldDave]

As to the employees being "forced" to be happy, it reminds me of the many times I've heard TV referred to as Disneyland for Adults. I think it truly is a good comparasion. Disney in no way tries to be the real world. It has always been a reflection of Walt Disney's memories of the turn of the century with a kinder, quieter more genteel world. I think TV is really that same kind of place. By controlling all the media the developer is really able to control the mood of the place to a great extent. Certainly you can get your news anywhere, but how many times have you heard people here very happy to forget the outside world and just be satisfied with "It's a beautiful day in The Villages." The beautiful flowers and trees and golf course do the same thing. Just drive outside the limits of the place and you're back in 1950s falling down Florida.

So, I guess for a lot of people this is OK. It actually can make your day living here better. I'm not even sure I'm against it. (whether it can be sustained after the buildout is another question that is often discussed here.) But for employees, especially those in the service end, I could sure see how it would be difficult to always be positive when you have to drive 30 miles to get to work and live in a poor neighborhood or city, and likely not make much money. Gracie is right, of course, you really need to be pleasant whereever you work, but I can see this might be a little harder to pretend you work somewhere perfect when you're cleaning toliets and picking up after people who have partied too hard.

[graciegirl]

I've actually never thought of it in relation to Jonestown at all.
I doubt if anyone would want to rub salt into a wound or cause more grief to those who lost loved ones in that tragedy. I certainly would not.

I first began hearing about "Don't drink the Kool-Aid" in reference to Casey Anthony's stories prior to her conviction (while the remains of her daughter had not yet been found)...........it was quite a big repeat phrase in the Orlando Sentinel (which people from all over the country were devouring on a daily basis). Entire blogs were devoted to Casey and her Kool-Aid.

As children, my husband's immigrant Polish grandmother would make them "sugar water" which was really Kool-Aid........ditto for my Ukrainian grandmother.........I guess to them, Kool-Aid was a simple inexpensive treat on their meagre budgets. That's how we remember it. FONDLY.

HOWEVER, I HAVE ALSO HEARD IT USED OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN CORRELATION WITH THE ROBOTIC CONFORMITY OF THE STEPFORD WIVES from Ira Levin's book.....and the subsequent movie, etc.

Plot summary
The premise involves the married men of the fictional town of Stepford, Connecticut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut), and their fawning, submissive, impossibly beautiful wives. The protagonist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagonist) is Joanna Eberhart, a talented photographer newly arrived from New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City) with her husband and children, eager to start (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Stepford_Wives&printable=yes#) a new life. As time goes on, she becomes increasingly disturbed by the zombie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie)-like, submissive Stepford wives, especially when she sees her once independent-minded friends – fellow new arrivals to Stepford – turn into mindless, docile housewives overnight. Her husband, who seems to be spending more and more time at meetings of the local men's association, mocks her fears.
As the story progresses, Joanna becomes convinced that the wives of Stepford are being poisoned or brainwashed into submission by the men's club. She visits the library and reads up on the pasts of Stepford's wives, finding out that some of the women were once feminist activists and very successful professionals, while the leader of the men's club is a former Disney engineer and others are artists and scientists, capable of creating lifelike robots. Her friend Bobbie helps her investigate, going so far as to write to the EPA to inquire about possible environmental toxins in Stepford. However, eventually, Bobbie is also transformed into a docile housewife and has no interest in her previous activities.
At the end of the novel, Joanna decides to flee Stepford, but when she gets home she finds that her children have been taken. She asks her husband to let her leave, but he takes her car keys. She manages to escape from the house on foot, and several of the men's club members track her down. They corner her in the woods and she accuses them of creating robots out of the town's women. The men deny the accusation, and ask Joanna if she would believe them if she saw one of the other women bleed. Joanna agrees to this, and they take her to Bobbie's house. Bobbie's husband and son are upstairs, with loud rock music playing – as if to cover screams. The scene ends as Bobbie brandishes a knife at her former friend. In the story's epilogue, Joanna has become another Stepford wife gliding through the local supermarket, and has given up her career as a photographer, while Ruthanne (a new resident in Stepford) appears poised to become the conspiracy's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal) next victim.
************************************************** ************************************************** *******************************

NOTHING WORSE THAN A DUMB WOMAN, in my opinion anyway.
Well, maybe there is...........people with their heads in the sand.

Conforming to the point of not giving offense to ANYONE and agreeing just for the sake of conformity.......submitting meekly to what is perceived as authority..........??????????

No one should hurt other people's feelings intentionally, but to not be able to speak one's own thoughts and opinions is very very very strange to me. As another said, no place is perfect. I also agree that people become bullies when unseen, hiding behind the keyboard.

If everyone had to weigh every single word, just because that word might dredge up painful memories for someone else..........go figure.
We'd all become mute.

How have the Jewish folks managed to survive all the years of repeating stories on the History channel and others about the Holocaust? I have friends who lost their entire families in the concentration camps......good neighbors of ours.

They don't tell people NOT to bring up the tragedy. It's actually cathartic to discuss it. We always listen with interest and tears in our eyes.....even my adult children. Better to talk about the memories and family stories than to bottle it up.

The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.
They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.

Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?????????

Everyone knows there are alligators in Florida . We found out back in 1972 after we had taken our 2 year old son and 5 year old daughter wading into a lake one hot summer day.........naively NOT KNOWING there was a killer alligator lurking beneath. Next day the newspaper told of a teenaged girl he had killed in that same spot we were in. Gave me the willies then and now. I really doubt if this truthful statement will kill Florida tourism.


Senior. I think that the biggest issue was that it wasn't in The Daily Sun, not that it didn't happen.The man rescuing his dog from an alligator) And wire services pick up stories and send them all over the world...it just means it is a good public interest story. I don't recall anyone saying it didn't happen. He, or someone who knew him, apparently contacted another paper....So I am not sure what " volumes that speaks".

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/man-saves-dog-gator-60754/

Everyone I know here has healthy respect for alligators.

Not everyone agrees that this place is as nice as I think it is...

But. I get to live here with two people I adore and surrounded by people I so enjoy. My cancer has not returned. I play golf four times a week and go to several art workshops and enjoy dining at home and at other homes and 'round the villages. THIS IS not what I expected years ago when I thought about being 73 years old.

Happiness is relative.

And if using that phrase really hurts someone, then we should stop. Even if it only affects a few someones.

[Barefoot]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a metaphor commonly used in the United States and Canada that refers to a person or group holding an unquestioned belief, argument, or philosophy without critical examination."

This is typically what happens when newbies visit The Villages. They "fall in love" with the concept offered by the Developer and out comes the checkbook. It happened to us in 2007, and it's the best decision we ever made, even though we made it without critical examination.

This phrase has become commonly used and is never meant to be painful or offensive. However, because we are hopefully all kind and sensitive souls, I suggest we should try to find a better way to describe the wave of euphoria that has motivated many of us to buy in TV.

My creative well is dry today. :mornincoffee: Anyone have a suggestion? PTurner, you have a way with words ....

[2BNTV]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a metaphor commonly used in the United States and Canada that refers to a person or group holding an unquestioned belief, argument, or philosophy without critical examination."

This is typically what happens when newbies visit The Villages. They "fall in love" with the concept offered by the Developer and out comes the checkbook. It happened to us in 2007, and it's the best decision we ever made, even though we made it without critical examination.

This phrase has become commonly used and is never meant to be painful or offensive. However, because we are hopefully all kind and sensitive souls, I suggest we should try to find a better way to describe the wave of euphoria that has motivated many of us to buy in TV.

My creative well is dry today. :mornincoffee: Anyone have a suggestion? PTurner, you have a way with words ....

How about "I was affected by the heat wave". :smiley:

Sorry, that's the best I can do off the top of my head.

[2BNTV]

"I won the lottery"

[ugotme]

How about "We are Villed-out?"

Okay so shoot me argggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !

[graciegirl]

I kissed and told?

[Taltarzac725]

Dusted by Harold Schwartz.

[pqrstar]

I would call moving here "Drinking from the Fountain of Youth"

because you feel much younger living here

[duffysmom]

[quote=senior citizen;590376]They don't tell people NOT to bring up the tragedy. It's actually cathartic to discuss it. We always listen with interest and tears in our eyes.....even my adult children. Better to talk about the memories and family stories than to bottle it up.
The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.

They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.
Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?????????

Senior this is the first I've heard that people denied the man existed.
Anyone who has lived in TV for over a week or two knows there are alligators and they need to be cautious around ponds. It gets old when people who do not live here become authorities on how we Villagers think and feel. Oh and thank you for the psychoanalysis of why people who suffered a tragedy should be more open and discuss it, I know I feel better.:shrug:

[Taltarzac725]

Seen the Buffalo.

[eweissenbach]

"Got Morsed"

[Down Sized]

It does seem offensive especially with its relationship to the Jonestown Massacre. Seem to recall at least one TOTVer who had a relative who died in that tragedy.

Any statement or comment made could be offensive to SOMEONE somewhere. Can't please everyone.

[duffysmom]

Kissed a frog, got all hopped up and bought a pad, became a frog and love it here warts and all.

[Taltarzac725]

Any statement or comment made could be offensive to SOMEONE somewhere. Can't please everyone.

True, but TOTVers interests and sensitivities should be taken into account especially when you know that someone who is on TOTV almost every day had friends or relatives who died in Jonestown.

[Villageshooter]

i agree with the statement of drinking the KA,,it can describe folks true blind faith that is perceived about this place .just another adjective. as they say in the NFL...
COMEONMAN!!!!!

[coconutmama]

I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

Nice post. A Merry & Blessed Christmas to you too.

[Irish Rover]

mgm444, I agree completely and that's why I rarely respond to any topic.

[rubicon]

This thread is classic The Villages"".

First there is more than one genesis for an idea. I can recall a guy who wrote the editor that the state finally listened to him and created a new license plate. Really just how many thousands of risents do you suppose had the sme thought. So I believe more than one incident created the need for the term kool aid.

Secondly, the over-reaction to senior citizen's informational post providing a definition of kool aid is instructive as to how deeply "political correctness has replace candid conversation in our society. Since most residents are over 55 should we also avoid the term dying death? What other terms or issues should we prohibit. How much further should we go in our society until we finally succeed in ending free speech. My best friend(a brother to me) committed suicide should I ask people not to use that term in my presence? No I welcome the oportunity to explain to people that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem

As to kool aid in connection to The Villages the fact remains that there are folks who did just that. You want to identify them? they are the residents who actually believe that by moving here they are wealthier, safer, healthier and living in a Disneyworld. Personally I have always subscribe to the belief that you can ignore reality and have it work against you or embrace it and have it work for you.

Some residents here just have to get a grip.

Senior citizen thank you for your post

[Taltarzac725]

This thread is classic The Villages"".

First there is more than one genesis for an idea. I can recall a guy who wrote the editor that the state finally listened to him and created a new license plate. Really just how many thousands of risents do you suppose had the sme thought. So I believe more than one incident created the need for the term kool aid.

Secondly, the over-reaction to senior citizen's informational post providing a definition of kool aid is instructive as to how deeply "political correctness has replace candid conversation in our society. Since most residents are over 55 should we also avoid the term dying death? What other terms or issues should we prohibit. How much further should we go in our society until we finally succeed in ending free speech. My best friend(a brother to me) committed suicide should I ask people not to use that term in my presence? No I welcome the oportunity to explain to people that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem

As to kool aid in connection to The Villages the fact remains that there are folks who did just that. You want to identify them? they are the residents who actually believe that by moving here they are wealthier, safer, healthier and living in a Disneyworld. Personally I have always subscribe to the belief that you can ignore reality and have it work against you or embrace it and have it work for you.

Some residents here just have to get a grip.

Senior citizen thank you for your post

I had a very close great uncle who committed suicide and one of the worst murders in the history of Nevada (according to law enforcement) occurred on my birthday of 2-24 in 1976. This was the murder of my then high school teacher's daughter Michelle Mitchell in Reno, Nevada near the University of Nevada, Reno campus.

I would be insane to insist that people not celebrate birthdays even though they do remind me of Michelle Mitchell's murder on 2-24. And the word "suicide" should not immediately dredge up painful memories for you as it does not for me.

It just seems to be a matter of decency to at least two TOTVers who had friends or relatives who lost their lives due to the cult in Jamestown to not use this phrase.

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;590376]
The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.

They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.

Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?????????

QUOTE]

I read every post on the threads regarding the rescue of the dog. I did not see any posts where the poster denied that the lawyer existed. Let alone "many folks" as you suggest. Where do you get this information.......just make it up as you go along?
What I find wrong with this picture is you are attacking posters that don't exist........but you make it a great story.

[Bogie Shooter]

For your enjoyment, here is the previous thread.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/drinking-kool-aid-31004/

[Villages PL]

How about "We are Villed-out?"

Okay so shoot me argggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !

How about, "losing all sense of reality?"

[redwitch]

Even if I weren't personally affected by the term, I think I would still find it offensive. Drinking the Kool-Aid is a specific reference to a very tragic event where 912 people died, 906 by drinking the Kool-Aid. Purchasing a home in TV is a happy event, although not always well thought out but rarely regretted. So, a term for a truly ugly tragedy being transformed into a happy event is just wrong to me.

Several of you have made the claim that being asked to not use the term is a form of political correctness and you should be able to say what you feel and when you feel it. Sorry, I see it as an act of common decency.

Some of you imply that the it is a form of censorship to not be able to use the term; that it is impossible to avoid saying things that are hurtful to others (do remember that once upon a time the N word was considered perfectly acceptable no matter how denigrating it was to others). I have a friend who is so terrified of spiders that just the word is frightening to her. Should I ignore her fear and blithely say spider in front of her just because I like the creatures?

Yes, suicide is ugly and tragic as well. Personally, I've never heard of the word used in a happy sense. Death is tragic in a very personal sense and something we are all subjected to in many forms. There are many bad jokes about death, dying and even suicide, but, again, I've never heard of these words used to describe something that causes joy to others. Yet, the Kool-Aid term is used to describe a joyous, life-changing event and that seems to be perfectly acceptable to some.

As I said, even if I weren't personally affected, I'd find the term offensive on some level. It just doesn't seem right to use it to explain why someone would purchase a home (and, yes, I'm well aware that many sales reps are advised to use exactly that term when selling TV to prospective purchasers). So, if you really believe it infringes on your personal freedoms, if you really can't see that the phrase is wrong and hurtful, use it, but don't be surprised when others tell you it is wrong and offensive.

[senior citizen]

.......

[Taltarzac725]

Just found this post Rubicon. You read my mind, if truth be told.

I had been thinking along similar events such as dear friends who died of brain cancer, another who died much too young of Lupus.....wonderful mother in law who died, also way too young, of bone cancer.

I saw my elderly mom decline very slowly for a decade with dementia and alzheimers disease......as they call it, "The Long Goodbye".
Should I get upset every time someone mentions that process?
It was very very sad to experience, as I cared for her in our home.

Should I get my nose out of joint everytime someone mentions the word cancer? Not where we live. Alzheimers and dementia? I don't think so.
Every one has a story.

Like yourself, people up here value the freedom of speech. No one wants to intentially hurt someone else's feelings , however.........not everyone knows everyone elses background to tippy toe around every thought process........we'd all become mute.

My husband and I both agree that this Political Correctness is rediculous.
Our society has not changed for the better since we married in 1965.
Who has all the rights now? Not the average law abiding citizens, that's for sure.........P.C. has slanted society in a totally different direction, if truth be told.

Guess we've been adopted "yankees" way too long. Free speech is tolerated up here. We know people in all walks of life. Live and let live.

I THANK YOU RUBICON.

Truthfully, I never knew someone's relatives died from drinking Kool-Aid in Jonestown. How would I ever know that????

My frame of reference (again) was the Casey Anthony / Caylee Anthony story.........first time I ever read it "over and over again" for years.
"Don't drink the Casey Kool-Aid" or some such comments.....re "believing her".

She had the last laugh, didn't she?

(Now I suppose that will create controversy meaning that I was on her side.....when in reality all our hearts went out to that missing baby.)

I'm going to rent that movie, "The Stepford Wives".....old as it is.
Read the book back in the olden days of Ira Levin and also loved his "Rosemary's Baby". Hmmmm?

There's quite a lot of freedom of speech on TOTV. Maybe, less in many areas of the Villages when you talk about certain topics.

Basically, I just treat people how I would like to be treated. That means trying to not deliberately offend people's sensitivities if you know that some words or phrases cause them great pain.

There was an man with what looked like a Holocaust tattoo on his arm who would come to the dog park every once in a while. He did not seem to be bothered with questions about the tattoo but almost evertwhere I heard question him did it with the utmost dignity and respect.

You never really know what some people online have been through so I do try to treat them as if they were face-to-face.

[senior citizen]

I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

As always, words of wisdom..........in our country everyone is , indeed, entitled to freedom of speech and freedom to read whatever newspaper they wish to get a full account of the news.......to make their own decisions.

Without this freedom we might end up like the poor folks below:
Human rights lawyer Chen Guangcheng escapes from house arrest and delivers message to Wen Jiabao on Youtube (with full transcript): Shanghaiist (http://shanghaiist.com/2012/04/27/watch_human_rights_lawyer_chen_guan.php)


AP Exclusive: China Nobel winner’s wife calls her house arrest ‘absurd and unbelievable’ - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/ap-exclusive-china-nobel-winners-wife-calls-ongoing-house-arrest-absurd-and-unbelievable/2012/12/06/9aa4ff60-3f7e-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html)

I had a dear friend who was born and raised up to age 19 in a Communist block country.......Hungary. *She came to our country and for the first time, she and her mother plus her elderly grandmother experienced freedom to worship, etc. as they chose.

She and I would have long conversations on what freedom truly meant. The ones who have been oppressed with regard to what they can read, study, worship, or speak.......**know the difference in our great country........or should.

*Right after the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and they all were warmly welcomed by the local Mennonite families in West Liberty Ohio..........

**Lest people forget.........what our founding fathers proclaimed.

[senior citizen]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;590376]
The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.

They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.

Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?????????

QUOTE]

I read every post on the threads regarding the rescue of the dog. I did not see any posts where the poster denied that the lawyer existed. Let alone "many folks" as you suggest. Where do you get this information.......just make it up as you go along?
What I find wrong with this picture is you are attacking posters that don't exist........but you make it a great story.

There were two or more threads going on that story at once.
I did read many posts where people did not believe it because it was in the Orlando Sentinel. Nuff said.

Finally, the "alligator trapper" posted his version.

Others , of course, criticized the lawyer for jumping in the water to attempt the rescue.

Others criticized him for having his dog in the back yard to begin with, off a leash. It's just the little "quibbling" things that people from "afar' notice.

Live and let live. Not everyone fits into a certain mold as a "clone".

[OldDave]

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

[senior citizen]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;590376]
The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.

They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.

Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture?????????


I read every post on the threads regarding the rescue of the dog. I did not see any posts where the poster denied that the lawyer existed. Let alone "many folks" as you suggest. Where do you get this information.......just make it up as you go along?
What I find wrong with this picture is you are attacking posters that don't exist........but you make it a great story.

THIS FROM PAULA AND JEAN BACK IN SEPTEMBER.....(As I said, there are many different segments as people were posting under different titles at the time):
Still having hard time with this one. I know everyone saying so a nice guy and all,but did anyone see this happen? are there witnesses,he looks what 65 and he jumps on his back hooks back his leg,grabs his tail until the dog is released from his mouth.The guys on television seem much stronger and younger doing this. Did anyone see them take awat a 7ft gator. Did he go to the hospital for injuries, did the dog go to the vets for injuries.Was there somekind of police or accident report or transport report. Who contacted the Orlando paper?Maybe there is a reason the village paper did not. Just because the newpaper writes a story or gives a interview I do not believe everything is Fact.I asked about his screen name GatorGus,was that before or after this happened that he chose that name. This also was his 2nd posts which I wondered.Being a retired teacher I have seen it all,so sometimes I just questioned. First thing I told the Ex about this event ,first thing she says I do not believe it. Do not believe everything on TMZ (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/man-saves-dog-gator-60754/index8.html#).

[graciegirl]

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

DEAR old Dave,

You are a dear kind man who thinks for himself and will be a joy to a ton of new friends when you move here, if you do. (We G's hope to be three of them)

I very playfully want to point out to you that the chip that they will imbed in your neck when they take your ID photo when AND IF you buy here may turn you into a similarly cultish person as myself and others.

Do you remember how you felt about raising children when you didn't have any?

Do you recall how old 45 used to be? Oh dear, 55? Horrors 65? I won't go further. I said at one time in my life, I would NEVER do that to find myself doing it.

Some kind of snarky person pointed out yesterday that older people more frequently die in automobile accidents than other age group and I was all bummed and was gonna show her and I looked it up and she was right. I am just sayin' that you could be wrong in a few of your thoughts here. You COULD be. You don't know, because you don't live here.

I am personally observing a lot of people who are acting quite foolishly happy here. I kind of think that they were happy THERE...and that is the reason that I have to say to you, Old Dave, that you seem like a person who is reasonably happy now, wherever you are and I wouldn't be at all if you were a little more than reasonably happy here if you choose to move here.

So don't come runnin' to me when you love it here and start defending this absolutely WONDERFUL place and may even turn out just like me.

Hugs.

Gracie

P.S.There have been seven homes burnt to the ground from lightning strikes in the villages in the last eight years.
NO homes have been swallowed by sinkholes. Some have been damaged.
Daily someone crashes and breaks gate guard posts.
People drive like crazy people.
Dogs poop in unexpected places.
There have been sitings of members of the other political party on this campus.
It AIN'T all Purty here.

[senior citizen]

There's quite a lot of freedom of speech on TOTV. Maybe, less in many areas of the Villages when you talk about certain topics.

Basically, I just treat people how I would like to be treated. That means trying to not deliberately offend people's sensitivities if you know that some words or phrases cause them great pain.

There was an man with what looked like a Holocaust tattoo on his arm who would come to the dog park every once in a while. He did not seem to be bothered with questions about the tattoo but almost evertwhere I heard question him did it with the utmost dignity and respect.

You never really know what some people online have been through so I do try to treat them as if they were face-to-face.

We have dear friends and neighbors for the past 41 years, in the same neighborhood, whose parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc. all went through the concentration camps during the Nazi Regime during World War II. The surviving daughter, our neighbor, was even in a post war concentration camp herself, as a baby.

When she tells us the stories, over and over again, we listen and ponder. The stories are filled with true horror......

You cannot hear them without crying............

EVERYONE HAS A STORY. Everyone has had tragedy in their lives.

Everyone might know someone who took their own life or even been murdered, God forbid. It's sad, it's tragic, but it happens.

[senior citizen]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;590376]
The biggest kick I have gotten reading TOTV is when so many folks DENIED that the lawyer had jumped into his backyard pond to rescue his little pooch that was truly being attacked by a REAL LIVE ALLIGATOR.

They denied the man existed, that it was all a made up story......even when the gator was captured by the trapper..........it was still denied, even when it made the GREAT BRITAIN (England) newspapers.


QUOTE]

I read every post on the threads regarding the rescue of the dog. I did not see any posts where the poster denied that the lawyer existed. Let alone "many folks" as you suggest. Where do you get this information.......just make it up as you go along?
What I find wrong with this picture is you are attacking posters that don't exist........but you make it a great story.
************************************************** ********

Dear Bogie Shooter:

Well, there are probably more threads than you even imagined.....
All going on simultaneously..........

Gracie girl said:
“I think someone is pulling our BACK leg”.

Barefoot thought the "story was posted by a troll."

Others doubted it as well..........

Soon, other folks began posting the STORY FROM THE ORLANDO SENTINEL:

Then others said “Dang , it was a true story”.

This goes on and on for three or more separate threads under different titles..........in other words, people had begun their own individual titled postings of this same exact story.

Some criticized the man for risking his own life to save a mere animal.
Others criticized the trapper for killing the alligator.
Others commended the man for trying to save his pooch.
Others critized the man for not having his dog on a leash.
Obviously, NOT ALL GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE.
His neighbor came to his defense as a great man and neighbor.

Paula and Jean said:
"Still having hard time with this one. I know everyone saying so a nice guy and all,but did anyone see this happen? are there witnesses,he looks what 65 and he jumps on his back hooks back his leg,grabs his tail until the dog is released from his mouth.The guys on television seem much stronger and younger doing this. Did anyone see them take awat a 7ft gator. Did he go to the hospital for injuries, did the dog go to the vets for injuries.Was there somekind of police or accident report or transport report. Who contacted the Orlando paper?Maybe there is a reason the village paper did not. Just because the newpaper writes a story or gives a interview I do not believe everything is Fact.I asked about his screen name GatorGus,was that before or after this happened that he chose that name. This also was his 2nd posts which I wondered.Being a retired teacher I have seen it all,so sometimes I just questioned. First thing I told the Ex about this event ,first thing she says I do not believe it. Do not believe everything on TMZ (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/man-saves-dog-gator-60754/index8.html).something wrong with this picture?????????"
************************************************** *******


I tried to copy and paste......but doesn’t work. In a nutshell, the impression I got intially as the story was breaking was that no one believed it.

Do you have a problem with my perception? Once I read it in the newspaper, I immediately posted the HYPERLINK which I noticed was relegated to a distant page..........I do realize that the ORLANDO SENTINEL IS A NAUGHTY WORD..........however, if people want a true overall feel for what central Florida has to cope with.....one should read the big city newspaper as well.........not just the happy news.

I later had communication with the trapper guy and I believed him. He knew exactly what I meant about the alligators on Sanibel Island as he had lived there.

The first time we vacationed on Sanibel Island, with our teenaged kids, after reading their local newspaper the entire winter prior to our flight down, I innocently inquired of the rental home owner about the alligators roaming the island........as we had to walk through some pretty tall GRASS to get from the house to the beach on the Gulf of Mexico......he laughed, pooh poohed it , and only later did we see them all, even on the beach........and of course in the Ding Darling Nature Preserve.........the above mentioned trapper knew about the lady gardening , etc. who was bitten, and other cases of limbs being torn off, etc. by Florida alligators. Why deny it? People should be on the lookout for their own safety. It's as if we said that it does not snow in Vermont so clear sailing on all the twisty turny mountains roads, don't slow down and don't worry at all.

I realize that most of the posters on TOTV are just trying to discern whether or not TV is a place they'd want to spend their golden years in, or not. The naysayers and "Doubting Thomases" do not help anyone.

[OldDave]

Gracie, you always make me smile and I love that. I do hope we end up there. There are lots of questions to be answered. But I have no doubt the majority of folks there love it. I think we will too, but I just want the freedom to ask questions. I've never been one for blind faith when it comes to anything. I'm guessing that isn't a surprise to you.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you always make me smile and I love that. I do hope we end up there. There are lots of questions to be answered. But I have no doubt the majority of folks there love it. I think we will too, but I just want the freedom to ask questions. I've never been one for blind faith when it comes to anything. I'm guessing that isn't a surprise to you.

YOU oughta have read my posts when I first started looking at this place.

I can't believe I am the same person. Ask Village07, she'll say how I was..... I thought the posters on here were all nuts.

[MSG@TV]

I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

Very well said, Ed.

[quirky3]

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Beautiful! I was so touched by this. Thanks, OldDave!!:BigApplause:

[OldDave]

Very kind of you Quirky, thanks.

[2BNTV]

I do not think "drinking the kool-aid" as an analogy is older than Jamestown. I think it is directly related to that tragedy, and refers to people who blindly follow along with the crowd or a charismatic leader, without regard to the consequences.

As for people who snap at newbies, I think they see certain opinions as a threat to their strongly held beliefs and react accordingly. The dynamics of chat sites like this, and I have been a participant on several over the last ten plus years, are interesting to say the least, and would probably make for a fascinating psychological study. People who are relatively non-confrontational in their real life, suddenly become active debaters on a keyboard. People who are passive-aggressive in life become simply aggressive on a keyboard. With a level of anonymity comes a "courage" to say things one would seldom, or never, say to another person's face. Add that to the fact that many people struggle to accurately express their opinions and feelings, and you have a situation rife with the probability of misunderstandings. I have often found statements I have made to be minconstrued or mischaracterized. Sometimes it is my fault, particularly in an effort to be brief and concise when I don't provide adequate context, and sometimes it is because the responder did not read carefully, or misinterpreted what I said. I try not to get too excited about what people say here because; a. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and legitimate opinions can coexist, even if diametrically opposed, and; b. because I can choose what I read, and I can choose what I want to beleive, regardless of what anyone else thinks or types. Have a nice day and be kind to one another! Merry Christmas.

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Thoughful intelliigent posts. :bigbow:

[Villages PL]

....I just want the freedom to ask questions.

I think it's totally reasonable to expect to be able to ask any question without being treated like an enemy of The Villages or an enemy of the developer. I think all questions should be treated seriously and respectfully.
Those who don't like a question can always refrain from participating. To be purposely disruptive, or disrespectful to any question, is to make The Villages look bad and doesn't "fix" anything.


I've never been one for blind faith when it comes to anything.

Good for you. As far as a replacement-phrase I would like to offer the following: Victim of Faith

[MSG@TV]

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Liked what you had to say.

[OldDave]

Thanks again to everyone for the kind words, it is nice to hear from positive people. And Victim of Faith is a pretty interesting turn of phrase.

[senior citizen]

The Political Correctness Of “Merry Christmas” Has Dangerous Consequences (http://freindlyfirezone.com/national-news/item/196-the-political-correctness-of-“merry-christmas”-has-dangerous-consequences)

“This is the way the world ends ...Not with a bang but a whimper."
Does that famous quote aptly describe America’s future? Time will tell, but indications are that this nation, the most powerful, benevolent and fair in the world, is crumbling before our very eyes. Like Rome, it isn’t falling from outside invasion, but within.
And one of the biggest culprits is political correctness.
It’s all around us, but especially this time of year, as the assault on “Merry Christmas” accelerates.

It used to be a standard greeting, and people would reciprocate with a smile. Your religious denomination didn’t matter, or whether you even had one. It was simply a friendly expression in a nation where the vast majority celebrated Christmas. And for those who didn’t, most returned the sentiment anyway because it was just a nice thing to do during the jovial season.
But all that changed as Americans’ sense of entitlement exploded. And yes, that included being entitled not to feel “offended” because something may not be to your exact liking.
“Merry Christmas? Well, I celebrate Hannukah or Kwanza or am an atheist, so how dare you presume to wish me your holiday? How offensive and rude!”
But it doesn’t stop there. Hypocritical retail stores woo Christmas shoppers --- you know, the 95 percent who do celebrate Christmas and spend a half-trillion dollars doing so --- but won’t put the word “Christmas” in their ads or on their displays.
It’s the Nativity scenes that are increasingly barred from public places. It’s residents who call the ACLU because a development hangs simple white lights on its trees. It’s office Christmas parties becoming a relic, replaced by generic “holiday” events. And yes, it’s Mayors like Michael Nutter who last year deliberately removed the word “Christmas” from the holiday retail complex near City Hall (but subsequently was forced to replace it).
All of it a brazen attempt to make America a more secular society through political correctness, and those who dare question it are labeled “bigots.”
Several important points need to be addressed:
1) The push to make all things politically correct has been successful, as it is now entrenched in all aspects of society. Everyone gets a trophy in most youth sports leagues, we don’t keep accurate score when one team is winning over another, and all things must be racially, culturally and ethnically homogenous.
The problem is that’s not how the real world works. And it’s the basic principle that the Occupy movement doesn’t understand. You have to work hard and fight for things you want, but when they are bestowed upon us --- without merit --- from those who worship at the altar of political correctness, things go downhill fast. Need proof? Just look at those who engage in PC the most ---Europe and the United States. Enough said.
2) This is a not call for “Thought Police” to mandate that everyone say “Merry Christmas.” Quite the opposite. It’s a call for the silent majority to wake up and shove it right back at the small but extremely loud minority who shout “I’m offended” at every single thing. Saying Merry Christmas behind closed doors doesn’t take guts. Saying it because you truly believe it and not worrying that such an innocuous greeting will offend does --- insane as that is.
3) Most important, Americans need to remember that actions have consequences. And until we connect the dots and see the error of being so PC, those consequences can, and will, have devastating results.
When good folks start looking over their shoulders before saying Merry Christmas for fear of "offending," it all begins to unravel.

Think the PC stops at that? Well, think about the fact that the next time you step foot on an airplane, it may be your last day on Earth because your government --- we the people --- absolutely refuse to non-invasively profile the very folks who openly state their intentions to blow up said aircraft. And it gets better, as the Transportation Security Administration just announced that children under 12 don’t have to take off their shoes for screening, and will not be subject to routine pat-downs like everyone else
Here’s the $64,000 question. What do we think al-Qaeda will do now? Here’s a wild guess. Start flying a lot more with children? What’s next? Not screening foreign children at all?

So when your wife gets incinerated two minutes after takeoff, and the wreckage of a jumbo jet falls on your child’s school because a terrorist put the bomb in his 11 year old's shoe, courtesy of the red carpet we provided, perhaps we shouldn’t wonder why it happened.
Or when your son gets his skull sliced in half by a bullet that emanates from a Mosque in Afghanistan which is "off limits" for retaliation for fear of offending the very people who don’t like us anyway, maybe we should think about where it all started coming apart.

Did it start from the reluctance to say Merry Christmas or the refusal to put a Christmas tree on a courthouse plaza? Did it originate from the refusal to acknowledge Christmas on a public school calendar while other religions’ holidays are clearly labeled as such? It’s impossible to pinpoint, but it really doesn't matter. That mentality is here, and has in large part led to the Great Decline.

So when the inevitable tragedy happens again --- one that could have been prevented --- and dumbfounded Americans stand around asking "How and why did this happen?", well, you'll know why. The 40's and 50's were certainly not perfect, but people spoke their minds, were respectful, and America was a powerhouse. That attitude put a man on the moon a mere 60 years after the Wright brothers took flight but is now a fleeting memory. Which is what happens when you bow to the wrong principles.

When Rome was at its zenith, it adhered to the simple principle that the well-being of its citizens was paramount. All of them. In fact, so fervent was that belief that the Romans would literally go to the ends of the Earth to hunt down any thug that violated the rights of just a single Roman. They didn't let political correctness rule the day, and the Republic thrived. But when it abandoned that principle, it all came crashing down.

They said Rome would never fall, but it did. Many say the same about America. Yet the whimper is at our door.
So if we are to ever return to our former glory, perhaps that path could begin by good folks jettisoning political correctness and saying two small but incredibly joyous words without reservation:
Merry Christmas!


Chris Freind is an independent columnist, television/radio commentator, and investigative reporter who operates his own news bureau, www.FreindlyFireZone.com (http://www.freindlyfirezone.com/) His self-syndicated model has earned him the largest cumulative media voice in Pennsylvania. He can be reached at CF@FreindlyFireZone.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it






(http://freindlyfirezone.com/national-news/item/196-the-political-correctness-of-“merry-christmas”-has-dangerous-consequences)

[Villages PL]

Merry Christmas, Senior Citizen!

..................AND............................. ..

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[eweissenbach]

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

[graciegirl]

Merry Christmas!

[Lark7]

Yes, I like the ring of those words!

Merry Christmas!

[Barefoot]

What does “Drinking the Kool-Aid” really mean.?

Another take on the meaning of "drinking the Kool-Aid". This is a quote and not from personal experience!

This is a reference to the "electric Kool-Aid acid tests," which were LSD parties held in the San Francisco Bay area in the mid 1960's. Someone who was willing to drink the LSD-laced Kool-Aid had, symbolically, made a choice to join (if only for a few hours) a counterculture that stood against conventional society. Once you take acid, you're committed -- the trip lasts for hours and you can't cut it short or change your mind. Once you've drunk the kool-aid, you're firmly committed.

[Taltarzac725]

Another take on the meaning of "drinking the Kool-Aid". This is a quote and not from personal experience!

This is a reference to the "electric Kool-Aid acid tests," which were LSD parties held in the San Francisco Bay area in the mid 1960's. Someone who was willing to drink the LSD-laced Kool-Aid had, symbolically, made a choice to join (if only for a few hours) a counterculture that stood against conventional society. Once you take acid, you're committed -- the trip lasts for hours and you can't cut it short or change your mind. Once you've drunk the kool-aid, you're firmly committed.

Very interesting Barefoot. Drinking The Kool Aid - Television Tropes & Idioms (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrinkingTheKoolAid)

[duffysmom]

You know I told myself I was finished commenting on this thread, because as is normal, it has turned into a discussion of something other than what was posted. But I find myself wanting to say a couple of other things.

First, redwitch, I'm very glad you posted your thoughts. It is better for you to explain why this is painful, rather than some of us trying to. Although I do have to say something about your post. You state that this term used in TV just means people who have moved here and are happy. I do disagree with that. To me it means the people who are blindly devoted to all things TV, without the use of logic. The people on this list that blast anyone who dares to suggest anything negative or something that needs to be looked at. Those that state it doesn't matter if your house is swallowed by a sink hole, or the costs go up, or the developer might leave town after the build out...just love it and be quiet because it's paradise. I think probably the best term to replace it is Blind Faith. Although that really doesn't seem strong enough. And of course Blind Faith is more normally used for religious groups, or at least those pseudo-religious groups that control their followers like Jim Jones. And sometime not so fringe religious groups. (I'm reminded of the little boy who asked his father, "Daddy, what is a cult?" His father responded, "Oh a cult is any religion other than ours.")

But I for one respect you and others. Even though the kool--aid remark does seem to describe this phenomenon well, I don't want to hurt your feelings. After digging around it seems clear that Jonestown is the source of this term in our modern usage. So, I personally won't use it again.

I am struck by the odd posts that jump to the conclusion that if we give you the courtesy of not using that term, just here where we know you, we are soon going to be visited by the language police and can't say anything. I'm just trying to be understanding for one person who I've enjoyed chatting with on this site. It is a small enough gesture. And a very easy one.

Someone mentioned that the N word used to be OK. It was OK because the only people that matter in that world were white. So there was silent agreement the feelings of black people didn't matter. I'm pleased that my generation had the courage to say, "you know just because I'm white doesn't mean I think that's OK. Stop saying it." It's slow progress, but it's progress. We have a next door neighboor only 10 years or so older than us. He adores our two kids and would do anything for them. But they refuse to go in his house any more because he is an uncontrolled bigot. They simply won't appear to condone this words, by just sitting there quietly.

A few years ago jokes about gays were quite funny. People enjoyed telling them and laughing. That's great unless you happen to be gay or someone you love is. Then, it's not all that funny. You stay quiet because you cannot afford to come out. Now that is changing, again slowly.

So the bottom line for all of this, and people who complain about political correctness going to far, is this. It is easy for the majority to put down any minority, whether by race, sex, religion, politics or a nice lady who doesn't want to be reminded of a tragedy. Sure it's easy to ignore these groups because there are more of us than there are of them. But it doesn't make it right.

It isn't that hard to try and be nice. OK, that's my sermon for today. Please turn in your hymnals to number 496, "It's a beautiful day in the villages."

Old Dave, beautifully said. I'm turning to page 496 of my hymnal (printed by Gary Morse) and it does say "It's a beautiful day in the villages.":ho: There's a house for sale in my neighborhood, I suggest you buy it.;)

[MSG@TV]

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

Ed, once again, my new "friend" you make a lot of sense IMHO. Happy Hanukkah (which begins tonight), and in advance, Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa (begins on the 26th). Personally I don't care which greeting I'm offered and offer the same in return.

[graciegirl]

How'd we get on this topic?

[manaboutown]

Ed, once again, my new "friend" you make a lot of sense IMHO. Happy Hanukkah (which begins tonight), and in advance, Merry Christmas and Happy Kwanzaa (begins on the 26th). Personally I don't care which greeting I'm offered and offer the same in return.

Please don't forget "Festivus for the rest of us"!

[quirky3]

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

"AMEN", Ed! In my workplace we have Hindu, Muslim, Christian, and Jewish cultures, and we all share our holiday spirit, food, and celebration. I believe that an inclusive, multi-cultural environment is a healthy one.

[eweissenbach]

How'd we get on this topic?

When "drinking the kool-aide" became a discussion on political correctness; threads often take on a life of their own.

[HMLRHT1]

It means you believe what the establishment wants you to believe!

[rubicon]

Another take on the meaning of "drinking the Kool-Aid". This is a quote and not from personal experience!

This is a reference to the "electric Kool-Aid acid tests," which were LSD parties held in the San Francisco Bay area in the mid 1960's. Someone who was willing to drink the LSD-laced Kool-Aid had, symbolically, made a choice to join (if only for a few hours) a counterculture that stood against conventional society. Once you take acid, you're committed -- the trip lasts for hours and you can't cut it short or change your mind. Once you've drunk the kool-aid, you're firmly committed.

Barefoot :Perhaps as suggested in an earlier post of mine could this be an alternative gensis to the "kool-aid meaning. Hmmmm Thank you

[rubicon]

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

Ed: Every Christmas our office was inundated with greeting cards. what I discovered is that in the last few years that I worked not one of those greeting cards held a religious connotation, a lack that I attributed to political correctness.

You speak of being a life long Christian and as such it seems that you better than many other people would unerstand the importance of christmas to christians and that anyone making claim that they may be offended or not be offended or understand is a lame execuse used by those people who are determined to end Christianity and/or Americans believe in God. to wit the call at the Democratic convention to remove God from the agenda.

I for one am becoming very annoyed with groups such As "Freedom From Reigion (Wisconsin based group) that petition the courts in Texas to prevent football cheerleaders who signage Bible verses

As my hero Popeye says"I can't stands no more."

[eweissenbach]

Ed: Every Christmas our office was inundated with greeting cards. what I discovered is that in the last few years that I worked not one of those greeting cards held a religious connotation, a lack that I attributed to political correctness.

You speak of being a life long Christian and as such it seems that you better than many other people would unerstand the importance of christmas to christians and that anyone making claim that they may be offended or not be offended or understand is a lame execuse used by those people who are determined to end Christianity and/or Americans believe in God. to wit the call at the Democratic convention to remove God from the agenda.

I for one am becoming very annoyed with groups such As "Freedom From Reigion (Wisconsin based group) that petition the courts in Texas to prevent football cheerleaders who signage Bible verses

As my hero Popeye says"I can't stands no more."

As for cards coming to the office, I believe that it signifies a recognition by the senders that the office may not be totally made up of Christians and therefore the cards should simply celebrate a holiday season that is celebrated differently by different religions. It is usually considered good business to be as inclusive as possible. I would assume that you, as I, recieve many Christmas cards with religious themes, but you and I are known by our friends to be Christians. If someone sends me a secular or Santa themed card, I think no less of the sender or the message. while it is and will always be, true there are groups and individual athiests who will try to stir the pot, it may also be true that we Christians have used our majority position to make things occaisionally uncomfortable for folks of other persuasions. Popeye indeed said that, but he continued to be harassed by Bluto.

[perrjojo]

I once made $5.65 selling Kool aide at my Kool aide stand. Grape was by far the favorite flavor.

[senior citizen]

Merry Christmas, Senior Citizen!

..................AND............................. ..

Merry Christmas to everyone!


Merry Christmas to Villages PL !!

[senior citizen]

Merry Christmas!


Merry Christmas Gracie !!

[senior citizen]

Now this will ruffle some feathers, but I don't see the issue with Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas. Some "political correctness" goes overboard, while some is simply, correctness. I am a life long practicing Christian and I certainly have never felt offended by a greeting of happy holidays, rather than Merry Christmas. I can get all the "Merry Christmas" greetings I need at Church, from my family and from my Christian friends. I can listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on television and at the movies. No one has trampled on my right to say Merry Christmas if I choose to, but I wonder how many of you would feel if someone greeted you with Happy Chanuka, Happy Kwanza, or Praise Allah, or any number of other greetings with religious conotations? There are many good people who practice religions other than Christianity in this country, as well as some who choose to practice no religion at all. A store that advertises Happy Holidays, may be owned by a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddist, a Taoist, a Sikh, a Christian, or an athiest, and they may just be trying to recognize that this is a holiday season for many religions, and a secular holiday for those who get paid days off, but have no religious beliefs. It seems to me to be a radical position to see this as the end of civilization as we know it. I think that banning Nativity Scenes goes too far, but then perhaps Menorahs or other symbols should also be displayed. As for harkening back to the 40s or 50s, when many of us grew up, and holding that period up as a morally superior time, I would ask you to remember how blacks were treated in many places in those days, and even women! If you are a Christian there is no danger of your losing your right to worship as you choose, and Christmas and Easter remain two of the most universally celebrated religious holidays in the free world. So I guess what I am saying is take care of your family and friends - celebrate whatever holiday you are into, love your neighbors, be good to everyone, and don't sweat the small stuff. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays -- Ed

Merry Christmas Ed !!

[perrjojo]

Merry Christmas and God bless us, everyone.

[senior citizen]

Ed: Every Christmas our office was inundated with greeting cards. what I discovered is that in the last few years that I worked not one of those greeting cards held a religious connotation, a lack that I attributed to political correctness.

You speak of being a life long Christian and as such it seems that you better than many other people would unerstand the importance of christmas to christians and that anyone making claim that they may be offended or not be offended or understand is a lame execuse used by those people who are determined to end Christianity and/or Americans believe in God. to wit the call at the Democratic convention to remove God from the agenda.

I for one am becoming very annoyed with groups such As "Freedom From Reigion (Wisconsin based group) that petition the courts in Texas to prevent football cheerleaders who signage Bible verses

As my hero Popeye says"I can't stands no more."


The changes have actually crept in quite insidiously over the years.
Insidiously to mean having a gradual and cumulative effect.......

When our children began school back in 1972 and 1975, the Christmas Musical Show was held each December and looked forward to by all the children, parents, grandparents and townsfolk. All parents are proud when the little ones are up singing, dressed in their Christmas duds.

Non religious "carols" were sung by all the grades separately and together as well as "winter" songs, Jewish dreidel songs, etc. for the one or two families who attended our elementary school..........it was fun for all.

Now, we have dear Indian friends who are good neighbors for the past 35 years........but when a handful of Indian families (Hindu) moved into town, they complained and suddenly our "Christmas" shows ended.
We have two colleges in town, so occasionally, we get new residents from various countries.....

I believe it was actually all because of ONE family. They didn't want their children to participate in singing the Christmas songs. It was a public school.

Even though the Christians were the majority!! Our town was founded by Irish settlers, English settlers and the wonderful French Canadians who came down to Vermont from Canada........... but a handful of newcomers changed the entire landscape.

At the same time, our classrooms stopped saluting the flag during the morning assembly. My husband didn't think that was right. Both of us had saluted the flag all during our school days.

The irony of the lack of the Christmas pageants is that the teachers began having "parades" for the Aztec sun god . Go figure. Christmas was eliminated but the kids could march down Main Street for the Aztecs.
I doubt if we have one citizen in our town of 12,000 folks who is descended from the Aztecs.

We've seen a definite shift.

Neither of us is racist. I had a little black girl friend in kindergarten and first grade in New Jersey. My daughter had a dear friend all through her elementary school in Vermont...........my mom worked with wonderful black ladies and we'd wrap up Christmas gifts for them.........

We had an Asian daughter in law. We love all the ethnic groups.

HOWEVER, IT REALLY IS MAINSTREAM AMERICA WHO IS BEING FORCED OUT OF THE LOOP.

Vermont always was a conservative state..........but with the influx of the city folks (of which we also were at one time) it has changed to liberal left.
So, I know of what I speak about political correctness and it is not always fair to ALL PEOPLE.

When I wrote my cards out, I also wrote "Happy Hannukah" to our Jewish friends........and our Jewish friends' children have married Christians , thus it has become very ecumenical.........ditto for our Indian Hindu friends. We've always been ecumenical...........but getting back to the workplace, they are NOT always ecumenical back....my husband's pet peeve was those who would say Happy Holidays and not Merry Christmas.

Although we were raised in a city and did know "diversity", our kids were raised in a very small town.........they sought out diversity by becoming foreign exchange students.* We also had students from other countries in our home for months at a time. When they were all in high school, any kid from a foreign country was treated like a celebrity....as it was quite a novelty to the small town kid. *Plus traveling the world, even to third world countries when they grew up.........we raised them to be open minded and friendly to all people.

Again, we are not racist and never were............I take each person individually as they come.

Even though we lived through the Newark, New Jersey RIOTS of the '60s, my husband having to pack a gun to get home safely from work, etc. we remained understanding..........then we moved to Vermont, which was a totally new world from N.J. Back then it was the whitest state in the entire U.S. and probably still is, for the most part. We did have the hippies and the "back to the land" movement.

No, the 40's and 50's were not utopian days...........they were simple days and a struggle for some, with the wartime rationing, etc. , fathers being off at war.......however, for decent hardworking people, one didn't have to mince words or watch everything they said for fear of ridicule. People were more plain spoken. Now everyone dances around the issues for fear of saying the wrong thing.

NO ONE LIKES A BIGOT..........we all have , hopefully, risen above that.

However, being so "politically correct" about everything in the universe gets pretty old after awhile.

Our daughter has gone back to teaching in northern Vermont; she was telling us that one of the towns near Burlington has become a "resettlement area" for Muslims from African countries and the middle eastern countries. That was news to us. Now, they have to celebrate and get days off from school for the Muslim holidays.......she's been teaching women in head scarves. So, even Vermont is changing.

Our cousin in New Jersey has had to deal with a large Muslim student population in the college where she works...........they are NOT ALL FRIENDLY to the older secretaries. However, she tries to be nice to all, to maintain the peace.

The Villages seems to be a very homogenous type place with similar types. It's easy to be open minded and welcoming of all......it's also what we've also done during our lifetime........however, people our age have noticed a definite change in society as far as it becoming lopsided......and not in our favor.

We do believe in being kind to all people. It's our nature.

Again, there was no way we could possibly know that someone had died in Jonestown massacre...related to a Villager. It's like knowing a Martian landed in the Green Mountains of Vermont.........who would know?
Although U.F.O.'s have indeed been spotted in our skies......more than once....but that's a new thread.

[looneycat]

It's sort ironic that it comes up as a reference to living here. It is a term that many of the employees use on a regular basis. I realize some may find the phrase painful and offensive, I guess thats the part I find ironic. Many employees feel they are "forced" to speak and act in a particular way in order to keep their job. In other words, you are not to speak your true opinion if it differs with "It's a beautiful day in The Villages." Flame away.....

isn't that the case for any and every service worker? If you don't act nice to patrons, would you expect to keep your job?? if you do, you won't have a job long because the business will close...as several have in the Villages just due to lousy service and 'help' that thinks they don't have to smile and do their job like they enjoyed it, bsides, a smile earns more tips than a frown.

[graciegirl]

isn't that the case for any and every service worker? If you don't act nice to patrons, would you expect to keep your job?? if you do, you won't have a job long because the business will close...as several have in the Villages just due to lousy service and 'help' that thinks they don't have to smile and do their job like they enjoyed it, bsides, a smile earns more tips than a frown.

YOU are so RIGHT.:BigApplause:

And if you want to be the head of the company, work hard and try to be polite. No one is interested in your "true" feelings. We all have had to keep our feelings to ourself in order to keep employed.

[rubicon]

YOU are so RIGHT.:BigApplause:

And if you want to be the head of the company, work hard and try to be polite. No one is interested in your "true" feelings. We all have had to keep our feelings to ourself in order to keep employed.

GG We all have to keep.... does not apply to many... for instance Somlians working in Minneapolis won't handle pork products when working as grocery store clerks. somlian taxi drivers won't transport passengers who are carrying alcohol purchased overseas. I could go on with numerous examples .

The facts are that the attacks are against christians and their way of life because it is representative of the majority and there is an intent to remove the majority in all aspects.

[mgjim]

GG We all have to keep.... does not apply to many... for instance Somlians working in Minneapolis won't handle pork products when working as grocery store clerks. somlian taxi drivers won't transport passengers who are carrying alcohol purchased overseas. I could go on with numerous examples .

The facts are that the attacks are against christians and their way of life because it is representative of the majority and there is an intent to remove the majority in all aspects.

I suspect this is way off topic but, unfortunately, anyone reading your remarks may think that what you've written is true. Actually, both of these issues were resolved in 2007. The Twin Cities Metropolitan Airports Commission voted unanimously to penalize any cab drivers who refused to carry passengers carrying alcohol or traveling with dogs. The penalties include a two year license suspension for cab drivers who refuse to comply with the rules.

As for the check out clerk who refused to touch pork products, she was offered a choice of a different job where she wouldn't have to handle pork or she was offered the door. She happily accepted the job in the stock room.

Usually, it seems, common sense prevails even when requests for special workplace accomodations seem to be unreasonable. And for those people who are unhappy with their workplace conditions, they usually end up quitting or being fired. I don't think that is an attack on the majority.

[senior citizen]

GG We all have to keep.... does not apply to many... for instance Somlians working in Minneapolis won't handle pork products when working as grocery store clerks. somlian taxi drivers won't transport passengers who are carrying alcohol purchased overseas. I could go on with numerous examples .

The facts are that the attacks are against christians and their way of life because it is representative of the majority and there is an intent to remove the majority in all aspects.

Rubicon is correct. It may not appear to be so in the "Bubble" of TV, however, out in the real world we have all noticed the subtle changes over many decades. It is so obvious, even among our heads of state, bending over backwards so as not to offend the middle eastern populations.

Our 44 year old daughter said something quite interesting when they were home for the long Thanksgiving weekend, while discussing all of the "resettlement" areas up in northern Vermont where she is teaching E.S.L.

They are sending them to Vermont from west African Muslim countries and middle eastern countries......to resettlement areas. Go figure.
This state is very foreign to what they are accustomed to. A better climate would be Arizona, New Mexico, etc.

She told "Dad" and I........"Believe it or not, you both are now in the minority". Meaning white caucasion, Christian, etc. born in the United States.

She was speaking of overall in the United States, also... as far as who was getting the most "help" and benefits, etc. No one gave our kids free college, free housing or food stamps........they got into college based on their grades and ability to pay.

Our cousin's college in New Jersey also has tons of immigrants who got "help" to study and get their degrees.

Now, having been quite involved with my own genealogy for the past decade +++, I know that our immigrant ancestors had to wait their turn and pay their own way.........and work their way UP the ladder of success. There really were no free rides like today.

When so many long time citizens of our country are literally hurting due to the recent "great recession" and drop in real estate prices.........why keep taking in all of these immigrants from Muslim countries ????? When they are hellbound to destroy us? I'm smart enough to know that not all are terrorists, however, one never knows how many might be.

[quirky3]

IMHO, This is starting to sound like a lot of hateful generalizations with no value other than to stir up bad feelings toward diverse kinds of people.

[OldDave]

I agree with Quirky. Just because there are more of us that are white, with a christian background doesn't make us any more important than anyone else. As I said in an earlier post, it is easy to be the majority and feel as if others don't matter. For the most part others are trying to live their lives according to their beliefs, a principal this country was founded on. We are, and always have been a melting pot. This country is extremely new compared to many of the groups that are coming here for a better life. (Except the people who were here when our forefathers came...and I'm part Choctaw, so I was here first.)

And throughout our history there have always been hated groups. I used to have a boss you was described as always having to have one person in his doghouse. Didn't matter if it was justified, he just needed someone to feel superior to. If you look at some of the sadder parts of our history there have always been groups that were looked down on: the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, women, and on and on. I would argue all those groups have become Americans first, and have helped build our country. Certainly there are some people that come here to do harm. But you know, we grow our own religious nuts here. The federal building in OKC that was blown up is two hours south of me, and the county park where those guys mixed up their fuel oil and fertilizer is 30 minutes north of here. Evil is evil, and it is not conveniently recognized by a religion, a color or a country of origin. I know in these days that's hard to remember, but I believe with all my heart it's true.

So, you can go on and on about how Christmas is being destroyed, or you can celebrate what you believe with your family and friends and give others with different beliefs the freedom to do the same. Our fathers and grandfathers died to let us live that freedom. (By the way, if you think our Christmas in this country is mostly about religion you have had your head in the sand. It's about money, gifts and parties. Sure many people are deeply devoted to their beliefs, and I'm happy for them, but the religious celebrations don't start the day after Halloween...Walmart does.)

I realize I'm not going to change anyone's mind here. That's one of our burdens of being older...we're all more stubborn than Missouri mules. And if you've never met one you really should. They leave a lasting impression!

It is a season of love. I would implore people to remember that and stop worrying about preserving America the way it was less than 150 years ago in the good old days, you know: women couldn't vote, blacks could be owned by other people, the Irish need not apply and my Choctaw forefathers were being wiped out...remember the only good Indian is a dead Indian.

For me, I don't want to go back, I want to move forward and try to love my neighbor...I read that somewhere.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and whatever else works for you this time of year. Let's all try to actually live that.

[zonerboy]

I believe way earlier on in this thread some one quoted Pres Lincoln as saying "you are as happy as you choose to be".
In a similar vein, I think you can be "offended" by what ever you choose to have offend you.
I bear no ill will towards Redwitch or any one else on TOTV, but I don't have time to worry about unintentionally offending some one.

[janbrady]

:22yikes:ken kesey book "the acid koolaid test"...riding on a bus around the countryside drinking koolaid laced with LSD!!!!!

[janbrady]

oh its actually from tom wolfes book..electric koolaid acid test

[Pturner]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is a metaphor commonly used in the United States and Canada that refers to a person or group holding an unquestioned belief, argument, or philosophy without critical examination."

This is typically what happens when newbies visit The Villages. They "fall in love" with the concept offered by the Developer and out comes the checkbook. It happened to us in 2007, and it's the best decision we ever made, even though we made it without critical examination.

This phrase has become commonly used and is never meant to be painful or offensive. However, because we are hopefully all kind and sensitive souls, I suggest we should try to find a better way to describe the wave of euphoria that has motivated many of us to buy in TV.

My creative well is dry today. :mornincoffee: Anyone have a suggestion? PTurner, you have a way with words ....

Back when I considered it a perfect and delightful way to express falling head over heals for TV, I used the expression with abandon. I neither knew of its association with Jonestown nor meant it in an unflattering light. Indeed I considered myself a Kool-aid-head extraordinaire, if you'll pardon the expression. :) Until being convinced otherwise, I thought it originated with Tom Wolfe's book. When I learned that I was mistaken, and that it was painful and offensive to others, I abandoned all encouragements to come try all the flavors.

Bare, I love your idea of a substitute but sadly am at a loss for words... if you'll pardon the expression. :)

Hmmm. What about, "Inhale the Disney Dust"?

[redwitch]

Ate the whole enchilada ?? Or because we're a bunch of old fogeys, "Bought the whole kit and kaboodle."

[2BNTV]

How about "I can't believe I bought the whole thing".

[jbdlfan]

isn't that the case for any and every service worker? If you don't act nice to patrons, would you expect to keep your job?? if you do, you won't have a job long because the business will close...as several have in the Villages just due to lousy service and 'help' that thinks they don't have to smile and do their job like they enjoyed it, bsides, a smile earns more tips than a frown.

My point has nothing to do with being pleasant or polite in dealings with the public. More has to do with the general way or philosophy of "the company." Suggestions on finding better ways of doing things or changing policy that was enacted (even if the policy has been proven inefficient or disruptive) is not tolerated. One does not speak in a way that would be considered anything but positive. Hey, if that is the way you want to run your busisness, so be it. Free enterprise, but like I said before, I'm not talking about bars or eateries, those are private non-Villages businesses. I just wanted to be more clear, not arguing.

[jbdlfan]

YOU are so RIGHT.:BigApplause:

And if you want to be the head of the company, work hard and try to be polite. No one is interested in your "true" feelings. We all have had to keep our feelings to ourself in order to keep employed.

Would you do that even if you knew your customers were being treated poorly or that your company was doing something wrong? Just asking?

[Barefoot]

Bare, I love your idea of a substitute but sadly am at a loss for words. "Inhale the Disney Dust"?

Ate the whole enchilada ?? "Bought the whole kit and kaboodle."

"I can't believe I bought the whole thing".

I think it has to be a three-word phrase which immediately gives the impression of being powerless against one's inner inhibitions. Something like "Inhale the Euphoria", but that's not the right phrase, too complicated. :confused::confused::confused:

Drumroll .... Suggestion from Ed Weissenbach please. Or anyone, please jump in ...:024:

[eweissenbach]

I think it has to be a three-word phrase which immediately gives the impression of being powerless against one's inner inhibitions. Something like "Inhale the Euphoria", but that's not the right phrase, too complicated. :confused::confused::confused:

Drumroll .... Suggestion from Ed Weissenbach please. Or anyone, please jump in ...:024:

Gave mine in a previous post: Got Morsed!

[OldDave]

You know this is difficult. The reason this phrase works is exactly because of the event it refers to. There aren't many like it.

Also, I'm not sure everyone here inteprets it the same way. Some have suggested it only means you really like TV. So I suggest we see first if we can agree on the meaning.

To me, it's little complicated. It means blindly accepting something, not because you believe in it, but because someone tells you to. It also implies that someone has a bit of power and/or respect over you. Which is why it applies to cults. Eventually you believe the feelings to be genuinely yours and your duty to defend it, in extreme cases to the death.

This is almost to the point of brainwashing.

Now in TV people arrive at this point more freely, even with very persuasive salesmen and people here telling them how wonderful it is. But the real key to me is the total refusal to hear or see anything negative. Not to disagree, but to act as if whatever is negative simply doesn't exist, and that you are to be dismissed for suggesting that it does. This seems to act to justify the decision you made to move here.

That's about as close as I can come to a definition. So, it's pretty darn hard to put all that into a simply phrase. Blind faith and brainwashing have elements that are true, although here brainwashing is a bit harse.

The only other situation I can think of that is similar is Beltway Fever referring to DC. In that case someone get elected to Congress or takes a job there on a mission to change things. But in a short amount of time they are taken in by the power, prestige, the money, the connections or whatever it is, and they become part of the problem.

So perhaps we could lift the "fever" part of that. How about "Village Fever" or if you want to be a bit more cynical, "Morse Madness". Or for those of you living near Brownwood "Mad Cowtown Disease."

[graciegirl]

You know this is difficult. The reason this phrase works is exactly because of the event it refers to. There aren't many like it.

Also, I'm not sure everyone here inteprets it the same way. Some have suggested it only means you really like TV. So I suggest we see first if we can agree on the meaning.

To me, it's little complicated. It means blindly accepting something, not because you believe in it, but because someone tells you to. It also implies that someone has a bit of power and/or respect over you. Which is why it applies to cults. Eventually you believe the feelings to be genuinely yours and your duty to defend it, in extreme cases to the death.

This is almost to the point of brainwashing.

Now in TV people arrive at this point more freely, even with very persuasive salesmen and people here telling them how wonderful it is. But the real key to me is the total refusal to hear or see anything negative. Not to disagree, but to act as if whatever is negative simply doesn't exist, and that you are to be dismissed for suggesting that it does. This seems to act to justify the decision you made to move here.

That's about as close as I can come to a definition. So, it's pretty darn hard to put all that into a simply phrase. Blind faith and brainwashing have elements that are true, although here brainwashing is a bit harse.

The only other situation I can think of that is similar is Beltway Fever referring to DC. In that case someone get elected to Congress or takes a job there on a mission to change things. But in a short amount of time they are taken in by the power, prestige, the money, the connections or whatever it is, and they become part of the problem.

So perhaps we could lift the "fever" part of that. How about "Village Fever" or if you want to be a bit more cynical, "Morse Madness". Or for those of you living near Brownwood "Mad Cowtown Disease."



I imagine since I have the most posts that part of the "blind faith" MAY be directed at me...or the part about not tolerating anything negative.

I can and will give you a lot of negatives in just a minute but I want to tell you that I TRY to point out INCORRECT information that some folks keep trying to ram down our throats....without the use of modifiers like many, some, often, frequently sometimes etc.

And I can say that many of us have not found many sales people employed by The Villages being persuasive in much of a way other than to show us houses.

Now.

You can buy a much bigger house on a much bigger lot outside of The Villages. Ask Faithful Frank.

You can buy a home in many parts of Florida where you are not restricted in ANY way about who lives with you when it comes to age.

You can buy a home without restrictions about signs you can place on your property.

You can buy a home without ANY amenity fee AT ALL.

You can buy a home that is truly in a GATED community for far less money.

You can buy a home elsewhere where there is entertainment late at night and where you can see the ballet and the opera.

You can buy a home where there are mostly younger people.

You can buy a home where you don't have to deal with choices about 1000 clubs, 32 executive courses, dozens of pools and rec centers.

You really should think long and hard about buying outside of this area where the IRS has not been mulling over whether the municipal bonds are taxable. It could incur an unknown expense in the future.

If you like the ocean, this is not the place for you.

You run the risk of being in someway harmed by a lightning strike as nowhere else in the country are there so many.

There are many sinkholes here, only more over in The Tampa area of Florida.

There is a majority of conservative people who live here.

The country clubs are NOT like the country clubs that many of us left behind. The serve inexpensive food that is o.K. for most of us but NOT wonderful....like many are used to.

People are older here and are not as good at driving in many cases as they once were. People are just plain bad drivers here;the worst I personally have ever seen in my whole life and there is for many a total disregard for any kind of traffic rules.

Many older people are substance addicted who live here.

Many of the Morse family and their friends were charged with poaching at their home in Montana.

The Morse organization was successfully sued for upwards of 40 million dollars by homeowners and lawyers who lived here.

The Morses sold ALL of us land that has swamps, alligators, bugs, and not much else and we bought it.

[graciegirl]

I forgot to say that I love it here and Sweetie and I would choose this place again in a heartbeat..Just in case you didn't know that..:wave:

[OldDave]

Gracie, for the record, I have never included you in the "Village Fever" group. As you pointed out you were slow to love it and that has only grown since you've been here. I would never accuse you of having Blind Faith about the place.

I've always enjoyed your posts. Yes, you are enthusiastic about the place, but I've never seen you say things like, "it doesn't matter if the house isn't built well and falls apart, I'll be dead by then." I've never seen you snap at anyone. I see you as a very postive person who has found some place you love. Comments from people like you help make me think I'd enjoy it there.

On a personal note, you were so supportive this summer when I was having all my health issues during our visit, that I will never forget it...even though we never made it over to have ice tea on your porch. We would still like to sometime though.

Your list of negatives is pretty thorough, too.

[jblum315]

Is this KoolAid thread never going to end? It just causes hurt feelings and misunderstandings.

[2BNTV]

With all due respect to Redwitch and others who find the term offensive, I request this thread be closed and a new one opened to give a new catchphrase to someone who has come to TV and totally fell in love and committed to buying a home.

Nuff said........

[jblum315]

With all due respect to Redwitch and others who find the term offensive, I request this thread be closed and a new one opened to give a new catchphrase to someone who has come to TV and totally fell in love and committed to buying a home.

Nuff said........

:agree:

[graciegirl]

I agree too.

[stuckinparadise]

ditto

[senior citizen]

You know this is difficult. The reason this phrase works is exactly because of the event it refers to. There aren't many like it.

Also, I'm not sure everyone here inteprets it the same way. Some have suggested it only means you really like TV. So I suggest we see first if we can agree on the meaning.

To me, it's little complicated. It means blindly accepting something, not because you believe in it, but because someone tells you to. It also implies that someone has a bit of power and/or respect over you. Which is why it applies to cults. Eventually you believe the feelings to be genuinely yours and your duty to defend it, in extreme cases to the death.

This is almost to the point of brainwashing.

Now in TV people arrive at this point more freely, even with very persuasive salesmen and people here telling them how wonderful it is. But the real key to me is the total refusal to hear or see anything negative. Not to disagree, but to act as if whatever is negative simply doesn't exist, and that you are to be dismissed for suggesting that it does. This seems to act to justify the decision you made to move here.

That's about as close as I can come to a definition. So, it's pretty darn hard to put all that into a simply phrase. Blind faith and brainwashing have elements that are true, although here brainwashing is a bit harse.

The only other situation I can think of that is similar is Beltway Fever referring to DC. In that case someone get elected to Congress or takes a job there on a mission to change things. But in a short amount of time they are taken in by the power, prestige, the money, the connections or whatever it is, and they become part of the problem.

So perhaps we could lift the "fever" part of that. How about "Village Fever" or if you want to be a bit more cynical, "Morse Madness". Or for those of you living near Brownwood "Mad Cowtown Disease."

EXCELLENT POST. GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE. SO RIGHT ON TARGET ABOUT THE BELTWAY FEVER.....etc.

Blind faith is never a good thing.......in the long run.
Act in haste, repent at lesiure goes the old saying...........

[jblum315]

I thought this thread had been closed.