What is going on?

[eweissenbach]

Seems the moderators and administrator of the site have had to do overtime duty on the board the last few days, deleting posts and shutting down threads. They shut down the political site, largely because the tone could not remain civil and because they were spending an inordinate amount of time administering it. Would hate to see people kicked off the board because they can't be civil. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Humor is a very personal thing and without context and sometimes facial expression or body language, is misunderstood. Humor to one, may be critical or hurtful to another. Sarcasm, satire, and irony do not translate well to forums of this type and should be used with care. Believe me, I have posted things I thought of as funny and harmless, that others percieved as mean-spirited, and for that I apologize.

Most issues or opinions are not black or white. If you disagree with someone, it does not mean they are not right in the way they see things, nor that you are not right in the way you see things. Disagreement should generally be accompanied with an acknowledgment that one can understand the opposite point of view but disagrees in specific ways. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on, and sometimes it is best to simply ignore things. I can't tell you how many times I have hit quote and reply and began to compose a response, and then realized that nothing positive could possibly come of it, and it was best to simply back away from the keyboard.

What you write may be misunderstood. I have had this happen many times, and generally when I go back and look at my post, I find that I didn't provide proper context or tried to be too brief and left out things that would have provided clarity. For example, I recently said in reply to a post that I thought was pointedly critical of another poster, something to the effect that while you don't have to do (whatever the subject of the post was about), you don't have to be a jerk either. I was not really calling them a jerk, but implying that it was equally poor taste to criticize them so severely as it was to do the thing the OP had done or said. It came out wrong (hopefully this won't do the same) and was rightly deleted. I generally re-read my posts prior to submitting them to check for spelling, grammar, and context, but still my thoughts are sometimes misstated or misconstrued.

As my friend Joe (2B) says, it doesn't cost anything to be nice, which are probably words for most of us, myself included, to pay more attention to.

[justjim]

Seems the moderators and administrator of the site have had to do overtime duty on the board the last few days, deleting posts and shutting down threads. They shut down the political site, largely because the tone could not remain civil and because they were spending an inordinate amount of time administering it. Would hate to see people kicked off the board because they can't be civil. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Humor is a very personal thing and without context and sometimes facial expression or body language, is misunderstood. Humor to one, may be critical or hurtful to another. Sarcasm, satire, and irony do not translate well to forums of this type and should be used with care. Believe me, I have posted things I thought of as funny and harmless, that others percieved as mean-spirited, and for that I apologize.

Most issues or opinions are not black or white. If you disagree with someone, it does not mean they are not right in the way they see things, nor that you are not right in the way you see things. Disagreement should generally be accompanied with an acknowledgment that one can understand the opposite point of view but disagrees in specific ways. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on, and sometimes it is best to simply ignore things. I can't tell you how many times I have hit quote and reply and began to compose a response, and then realized that nothing positive could possibly come of it, and it was best to simply back away from the keyboard.

What you write may be misunderstood. I have had this happen many times, and generally when I go back and look at my post, I find that I didn't provide proper context or tried to be too brief and left out things that would have provided clarity. For example, I recently said in reply to a post that I thought was pointedly critical of another poster, something to the effect that while you don't have to do (whatever the subject of the post was about), you don't have to be a jerk either. I was not really calling them a jerk, but implying that it was equally poor taste to criticize them so severely as it was to do the thing the OP had done or said. It came out wrong (hopefully this won't do the same) and was rightly deleted. I generally re-read my posts prior to submitting them to check for spelling, grammar, and context, but still my thoughts are sometimes misstated or misconstrued.

As my friend Joe (2B) says, it doesn't cost anything to be nice, which are probably words for most of us, myself included, to pay more attention to.

:agree: Excellent post. Well done.

[ugotme]

Excellent post!

Everyone has the right to disagree. However disagreement in a civil manner is generally a discussion. This is what all comments should be posted as.

A thoughtful, clear concise explanation may cause the recipient to alter his/her thinking but may not. So be it!

One of the beauties of living here in The United States of America!

[OldDave]

Well said, Ed. I am somewhat worried about the increased activity coinciding with my return to posting. Coincidence? Hmmm.

[2BNTV]

Thanks Ed and as usual, a well thought out post.

I usually am careful when responding to a post and tend to think it's the better thought not to say anything when someone post something I find to be objectionable. I have on a couple of occasions been misunderstood and tend to believe no one wins if you get into an argument so why start one?
If I offend anyone, I would be the first to apoligize. I did post a short response yesterday that would have better if I expanded my thoughts.
For that, I am sorry. We should all strive to agree to disagree respectfully. We are at an age where we don't need any additional heartache.

I always remember the story about Lincoln when he wrote a letter to a general roundly criticizing him for not attacking the enemy. He then decided to put the letter in his drawer instead of mailing it as he was angry. He read the letter after sleeping on it and then got news the general had attacked the enemy that morning so he would up ripping the letter and throwing it away instead of having to mail it.

Dale Carnegie once said, "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

Okay, I won't quit my day day . :smiley:

[NotGolfer]

I agree...with ALL the posters here!!! We've all seen some snippy responses on here. It's too bad as this site is really a great way to get some information (quickly most of the time). I appreciate whom ever set it up originally!! Thank you!!!

[rubicon]

My take on this goes to two issues. First political correctness has been so ingrained into our thinking that too may of us have forgotten how to have a civil discussion because the immediate reaction to a word or the content of a statement is immediately taken as an affront. Think about how many people you are comfortble with kidding or teaseing anymore. I can think of two my wife and my brother other than that I hold back because experience has taught me that too many people over-react.

Secondly, this country is so decisively divided; especially politically that just being in the opposite political party is enough to set a person off. Just watch the news from the standpoint of what I just said and I promise you that you will see examples of this story after story.

That old live and let live philosophy simply is dying out...and it is a heartbreaker

[Bucco]

My take on this goes to two issues. First political correctness has been so ingrained into our thinking that too may of us have forgotten how to have a civil discussion because the immediate reaction to a word or the content of a statement is immediately taken as an affront. Think about how many people you are comfortble with kidding or teaseing anymore. I can think of two my wife and my brother other than that I hold back because experience has taught me that too many people over-react.

Secondly, this country is so decisively divided; especially politically that just being in the opposite political party is enough to set a person off. Just watch the news from the standpoint of what I just said and I promise you that you will see examples of this story after story.

That old live and let live philosophy simply is dying out...and it is a heartbreaker

Your point about the "news" is spot on. I said this the other day. I can think of NOT ONE news media that reports total stories. I can only imagine true and real journalists from the past as they watch this group...the MSM...be above reproach, and very seldom questioned on WHAT they report nor WHAT THEY DO NOT report.

[OldDave]

Amen Bucco. Your comment about old journalists really hits home. I don't believe I could work in journalism today. The rules we used to live by have all gone out the window. When reporters show up on talk shows giving their personal opinions, it's pretty much over.

Of course, I guess we're all at fault. CNN is the only cable news channel that seems to attempt to be balanced (I'm not commenting on how successful they are.) Fox and MSNBC both make their living by appealing to their own constituencies and not really trying to hide it. AND both of them have higher ratings than CNN, so apparently we like what they do better.

It is interesting that CNN just hired a new president, and he said his first task is to broaden their definition of News. That cannot be good. We'll likely see Honey Boo Boo looking for big foot on CNN by the end of next year.

[cologal]

As veteran of the political thread I learned that even though I am center left and others center right usually we could agree on issues if we calmly explained our position and the reason behind it. I miss those.discussions. Its all about finding common ground!

[njbchbum]

As veteran of the political thread I learned that even though I am center left and others center right usually we could agree on issues if we calmly explained our position and the reason behind it. I miss those.discussions. Its all about finding common ground!

miss that forum, too! i always found it a place to learn - even if some of the 'lessons' were a bit more than heated! the discussions always provided insight as to how/why one's opinions were formed. totv lost an informative forum.

[gomoho]

miss that forum, too! i always found it a place to learn - even if some of the 'lessons' were a bit more than heated! the discussions always provided insight as to how/why one's opinions were formed. totv lost an informative forum.

When the political forum was shut down admin said they would revisit the possibility of opening it again after the election. So maybe there is still hope?

[graciegirl]

Ed. This is my theory. Some people like to inflame and they are warned and eventually banned but return again under a new name, no matter how hard the moderators try to control this.

It is very easy apparently to disappear under one name that has caused trouble and to reappear under another.

I am pretty sure of some reappearers because their errors, their habits and their writing style is the same.

And I am close to giving the forum over to them. They have hurt some sensitive and well meaning posters.

And Old Dave, you are right. You can write from your heart until the cows come home but you won't change anybody's mind.

[Xavier]

Perhaps if you went back and read the last couple weeks of what was posted in the political forum just prior to the closing, you might get shocked back to reality. It's best that it remains gone. There is no civility in politics -especially here. A couple of those who used to post there have demonstrated recently, in the regular forum, that nothing has changed. Of course, when the topic comes up again, some of the regular posters to political, who have been mostly away from TOTV, come out of the woodwork to put their two cents in - just as I have just done.

Xavier

[sueandskip]

Your point about the "news" is spot on. I said this the other day. I can think of NOT ONE news media that reports total stories. I can only imagine true and real journalists from the past as they watch this group...the MSM...be above reproach, and very seldom questioned on WHAT they report nor WHAT THEY DO NOT report.

I take a totallyh different view on all this ....My forfathers as well as I and most of you either know or have personally fought for the rights you have and supposidly hold dear....One of them is freedom of speech....It is written and it is the law....So why are all of you ready to looose more of your rights just because you don't like the way someone said it ? I will fight for your right to speak will you not fight for mine ?

[CaptJohn]

Good thread, Ed.
I can see several factors at play. One is that newbies here dive right in with their questions/ problems and are often the ones attacked. Yes, many may be suspicious but I think it's encombant on those of use who have been around a while to be aware of their newness and treat them with kid gloves to start out and give them the benefit of doubt. Those of us that have been on here a while tend to get used to or 'get the hang' of the rest of the personalities and will harmlessly tease or poke fun at some knowing they will take it in good jest as it was intended. I think know the grumps and avoid commenting in those cases because I don't have a good idea how they'll take it and I never mean any harm. I do like to point out ironies though. That is my personality and I have just as much fun being poked at. As another said, I also read my responses carefully and sometimes delete them or edit them before posting if I think they'll be taken wrong. It is difficult at best with the wide range of personalities on here.
In short, give the newbies a break and think before you click 'post reply'.
Popcorn for all but ask Bill first! He is the popcorn keeper and we all know that! :laugh:.

[Bucco]

I take a totallyh different view on all this ....My forfathers as well as I and most of you either know or have personally fought for the rights you have and supposidly hold dear....One of them is freedom of speech....It is written and it is the law....So why are all of you ready to looose more of your rights just because you don't like the way someone said it ? I will fight for your right to speak will you not fight for mine ?

I do not know exactly how to respond to this.

The media is to report the news...ALL OF IT. Not one side or another.

That has nothing to do with freedom of speech in anyway. If you call yourself a journalist who is reporting NEWS, then report it all.

If you are a commentor with your opinions, then certainly you have a right to say them, put them on billboards..whatever.

Problem is that we take commentators comments as NEWS and it is not. I honestly cannot think of a valid NEWS outlet ! They are shooting for ratings and not accuracy or NEWS and they are servants to those whom they should be keeping in place. That pendulum swings BOTH ways and is not a political comment.

[ugotme]

I do not know exactly how to respond to this.

The media is to report the news...ALL OF IT. Not one side or another.

That has nothing to do with freedom of speech in anyway. If you call yourself a journalist who is reporting NEWS, then report it all.

If you are a commentor with your opinions, then certainly you have a right to say them, put them on billboards..whatever.

Problem is that we take commentators comments as NEWS and it is not. I honestly cannot think of a valid NEWS outlet ! They are shooting for ratings and not accuracy or NEWS and they are servants to those whom they should be keeping in place. That pendulum swings BOTH ways and is not a political comment.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you !
The vast majority of "News" today is slanted by the corporations that control the media - one way or the other. It is very rare to hear both sides of a story reported without bias.

[graciegirl]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you !
The vast majority of "News" today is slanted by the corporations that control the media - one way or the other. It is very rare to hear both sides of a story reported without bias.

I believe you are right.

[Lark7]

Media bias is very much alive but not so well.

[senior citizen]

........

[NotGolfer]

New is all about ratings these days! Have you noticed how news-persons tend to also editorialize??

Yesterday that incident in CT was horrific...did you all notice all the reports coming that had to be rebutted due to incorrect information? I can see reporting what's happening but to devote the whole of the day to it is a bit over-board. "They" will say it's because "we" have the "right" to know.

I believe in the right of "Free Speech" but civilty has gone by the way-side! I'm with fighting for our freedoms---but of late all I see is folks sending e-mails, complaining and not putting action into their words (for the most part).

[graciegirl]

New is all about ratings these days! Have you noticed how news-persons tend to also editorialize??

Yesterday that incident in CT was horrific...did you all notice all the reports coming that had to be rebutted due to incorrect information? I can see reporting what's happening but to devote the whole of the day to it is a bit over-board. "They" will say it's because "we" have the "right" to know.

I believe in the right of "Free Speech" but civilty has gone by the way-side! I'm with fighting for our freedoms---but of late all I see is folks sending e-mails, complaining and not putting action into their words (for the most part).

AND some producers of news shows are more "ethical" than others, but not every day and not every moment.

It is "their" job to report the news and if "they" don't keep running the story and the other major networks do, they lose business. I feel sorry for the anchors who have to fill air space and it is NOT what they were taught as correct to speculate or encourage people to repeat gossip...but they all do.

No easy answer. It is a competitive business much like any other.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Geez.......I guess I've missed a lot by being away from TOTV for a few days!

CaptJohn............. :popcorn: It's always available! :)

Good thread/initial post, Ed.

Bill :)

[bkcunningham1]

As veteran of the political thread I learned that even though I am center left and others center right usually we could agree on issues if we calmly explained our position and the reason behind it. I miss those.discussions. Its all about finding common ground!

I miss those discussion too. I hope you are healthy and happy and hitting them straight and long. Happy, happy New Year. B.K. Cunningham

[CaptJohn]

Isn't the news media on a different thread? :laugh:

[skyguy79]

Isn't the news media on a different thread? :laugh:Thread? Don't know! World? Could be! :sigh:

[nitehawk]

Isn't the news media on a different thread? :laugh:

Thank you, Capt --

[senior citizen]

Seems the moderators and administrator of the site have had to do overtime duty on the board the last few days, deleting posts and shutting down threads. They shut down the political site, largely because the tone could not remain civil and because they were spending an inordinate amount of time administering it. Would hate to see people kicked off the board because they can't be civil. Here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Humor is a very personal thing and without context and sometimes facial expression or body language, is misunderstood. Humor to one, may be critical or hurtful to another. Sarcasm, satire, and irony do not translate well to forums of this type and should be used with care. Believe me, I have posted things I thought of as funny and harmless, that others percieved as mean-spirited, and for that I apologize.

Most issues or opinions are not black or white. If you disagree with someone, it does not mean they are not right in the way they see things, nor that you are not right in the way you see things. Disagreement should generally be accompanied with an acknowledgment that one can understand the opposite point of view but disagrees in specific ways. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and move on, and sometimes it is best to simply ignore things. I can't tell you how many times I have hit quote and reply and began to compose a response, and then realized that nothing positive could possibly come of it, and it was best to simply back away from the keyboard.

What you write may be misunderstood. I have had this happen many times, and generally when I go back and look at my post, I find that I didn't provide proper context or tried to be too brief and left out things that would have provided clarity. For example, I recently said in reply to a post that I thought was pointedly critical of another poster, something to the effect that while you don't have to do (whatever the subject of the post was about), you don't have to be a jerk either. I was not really calling them a jerk, but implying that it was equally poor taste to criticize them so severely as it was to do the thing the OP had done or said. It came out wrong (hopefully this won't do the same) and was rightly deleted. I generally re-read my posts prior to submitting them to check for spelling, grammar, and context, but still my thoughts are sometimes misstated or misconstrued.

As my friend Joe (2B) says, it doesn't cost anything to be nice, which are probably words for most of us, myself included, to pay more attention to.

A very thought provoking intelligent post.........from one of the very most intelligent posters on TOTV.

Everyone has a different reality, a different frame of reference....having seen things first hand that others may not have witnessed, nor ever will witness...........such as pertains to the mental illness debate going on.

With regard to the guns debate, it all depends on which part of the country you live in; not to mention the crime rate in that particular region. For the most part, hunters from rural areas, will continue to defend their gun rights. They are not necessarily thinking of the guns being in the hands of a mentally ill young person, intent on shooting innocents, such as those beautiful young children, teachers, etc.

Of course, as we see in Connecticut's quintessential lovely hometown where the school tragedy occurred, oftentimes evil knows no boundaries.

One news anchor mentioned yesterday that people are becoming increasingly intolerant of other folks' opinions during all of what has transpired recently...........which has brought up long submerged memories in a lot of people. Often, one thing leads to another rememberance. At our age, all of us should have a wealth of experience which allows us to relate to much of what is happening in our world today.

Again, you are an extremely intelligent writer with a fairness and a good heart.

[senior citizen]

My take on this goes to two issues. First political correctness has been so ingrained into our thinking that too may of us have forgotten how to have a civil discussion because the immediate reaction to a word or the content of a statement is immediately taken as an affront. Think about how many people you are comfortble with kidding or teaseing anymore. I can think of two my wife and my brother other than that I hold back because experience has taught me that too many people over-react.

Secondly, this country is so decisively divided; especially politically that just being in the opposite political party is enough to set a person off. Just watch the news from the standpoint of what I just said and I promise you that you will see examples of this story after story.

That old live and let live philosophy simply is dying out...and it is a heartbreaker

I can so relate to your above words.........especially, who you can trust to "get" you and "understand" you. We are fortunate to have them, aren't we?

Again, more power to your words........I agree with your statement above.