Tragedy in Connecticut

[senior citizen]

For those of you who are from Connecticut or have loved ones or grandchildren in Connecticut, for the past hour or more, CNN has been reporting about the shooting of 27 or more in the Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT. Hearbreaking news............shooter is dead. News conference upcoming........God Bless. F.B.I. on scene, etc .
http://news.msn.com/us/at-least-27-dead-in-shooting-at-conn-elementary-school

[2BNTV]

Article from CNN.

Children and adults gunned down in Connecticut school massacre – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1)

I just saw this on the television. What a tradgedy. Article says 20 killed.

Newtown is 25 minutes from where I live. My thoughts and prayers to those family and friends who have loved ones that were killed and those who are traimatized. :pray:

[2BNTV]

Reporting that at the least, 10 children are dead.

'Close to 20' dead in Connecticut school shooting, source says - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

This is sickening to me. I'm at a loss for words.

[Tom Hannon]

NY papers say 18 children, 7 teachers are dead. So sad to take the children. What is this world coming to? I could not imagine getting a phone call like that and telling my my kid was not coming home.

[jebartle]

My prayers to all of the families....Just so so sad, these families anticipating the thrills of Christmas with their loved ones, only to discover that their sweet child is gone....Oh, I just want to cry....What is going on in this world!...How can we isolate these NUTS before they do real harm???

[Tom Hannon]

Glad SWAT killed the ******* before we waste tons of money for a trial and the time to rehab this devil.

[2BNTV]

Daily News article -27 Dead - 18 Children

I feel like crying.

Masked gunman kills 27, including 18 children, at Connecticut primary school; Evacuations, terror within Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/deadly-shooting-reported-conn-elementary-school-article-1.1220164)

[aln]

:pray:

Prayers are needed for many people right now for many reasons.

[Taltarzac725]

For those of you who are from Connecticut or have loved ones or grandchildren in Connecticut, for the past hour or more, CNN has been reporting about the shooting of 27 or more in the Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT. Hearbreaking news............shooter is dead. News conference upcoming........God Bless. F.B.I. on scene, etc .
18 children among 27 dead in Conn. school shootings (http://news.msn.com/us/at-least-27-dead-in-shooting-at-conn-elementary-school)




I saw that on the AOL News. Horrible. Not sure if there is any kind of solution to these kind of tragedies. Cannot really do away with guns. Just look at how well Prohibition worked with getting rid of alcohol? They seemed to make booze even more prevalent in certain sections of society by outlawing it. http://history1900s.about.com/od/1910s/a/18thamendment.htm

Prayers for those whose lives have changed or been lost because of this.

[spk7951]

My wife told me about this when I came home from golf earlier. Can not put into words how we feel for those that are suffering and also hope that none of our friends living in that area of CT have suffered any loses.

[shcisamax]

I too lived 25 minutes to Newtown. In fact, we boarded our horse there for several years. For the life of me, I cannot imagine a less likely place for such unimaginable violence. I am heartbroken for all in Newtown, Fairfield County.... the country. What is happening to people?

[janmcn]

My heart is breaking for these families in Newtown, CT. Sickening. Unimaginable.

If these young men, like the shooter, want to take their own lives, let them sit in their cars and blow their miserable brains out...don't take all these innocent people with you.

[graciegirl]

Just returned from Golf to hear this horrible news.

[Golfingnut]

So horrible.

[tpop1]

First of all I am sick to my stomach over this unspeakable act. We are praying for these children, teachers, police, EMTs, and others who were caught in today's hellish act.

The innocents pay the price for selfish, self centered, violent individuals who prolifirate in today's society.

I have already seen posts blaming guns. Its not the guns, its endemic of a society where there are little consequesces for ones's anti-social actions. We see it all the time; no discipline, no punishment and no being "responsible for one's actions!.

The slipery slope we allowed to grow has turned into a mud slide!!!

It's time to change or our way of life is done.
_

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Now Fox news is reporting 20 children killed. How anyone could kill someone else I will never know but how anyone can kill 5 year olds is beyond my comprehension.

[Taltarzac725]

Now Fox news is reporting 20 children killed. How anyone could kill someone else I will never know but how anyone can kill 5 year olds is beyond my comprehension.

Very sick and/or evil person.

[Barefoot]

:pray:

Prayers are needed for many people right now for many reasons.

Amen to that. Unspeakably sad news. :pray:

[rubicon]

We have not learned from the previous school, mall, movie theatres shootings. And while well intented pundits will narrow their focus to gun control and mis-lead the discussion. The "cause"of this was not guns. The "cause"is a person whose emotional state had been ignored.

What a terrible thing for young kids to have to go through. God hear our prayers,

[eweissenbach]

There is really nothing, beyond TSA type security, that can be done to stop people who's minds are so twisted that they would even consider such an act. Someone like that is an anomaly and could show up anywhere, unfortunately. And no one that I know would support airport security at all schools, theatres, malls, and restaurants, nor could we afford it.

[Taltarzac725]

We have not learned from the previous school, mall, movie theatres shootings. And while well intented pundits will narrow their focus to gun control and mis-lead the discussion. The "cause"of this was not guns. The "cause"is a person whose emotional state had been ignored.

What a terrible thing for young kids to have to go through. God hear our prayers,

So far on this thread, I have only noticed one mention of guns. I just wrote that outlawing guns was not the solution as they would probably still be accessible to criminals as well as to some mentally ill people. The 18th Amendment was a disaster at controlling the abuse of alcohol even if well-intentioned at the beginning. Seemed more like a recipe for corruption as Prohibition developed.

Any over broad approach would probably just be a recipe for abuse of power in government. The 2nd Amendment is there to curb abuse of government.

[Golfingnut]

We have not learned from the previous school, mall, movie theatres shootings. And while well intented pundits will narrow their focus to gun control and mis-lead the discussion. The "cause"of this was not guns. The "cause"is a person whose emotional state had been ignored.

What a terrible thing for young kids to have to go through. God hear our prayers,

I agree the cause was not guns, But as God is my witness, without AUTOMATIC HAND guns, this would not have resulted in so many deaths.
My prayers go out to all for this senseless tragedy.

[graciegirl]

words are so inadequate. The president was unable to speak too.

So awful. Dear little ones, all so innocent and so frightened in their last moments. Dear God. Their moms and dads. No one should have to suffer this indescribable pain.

[shcisamax]

So how is it possible that all these twisted people manage to get guns? While I am not one to mess with the constitution, I wonder why it appears the criminals and the crazies are the ones who get them?

[mfp509]

My friends in Glenbrook are from Newtown - I called them right away. I wouldn't be surprised if they know someone related to one or more of the victims. I am also from CT - what a terrible thing!!

[LittleDog]

I agree the cause was not guns, But as God is my witness, without AUTOMATIC HAND guns, this would not have resulted in so many deaths.
My prayers go out to all for this senseless tragedy.
You hit the nail on the head about assault and high capacity weapons. That is where the problem lies, not the abolishing of guns themselves. Unfortunately some deranged individual will see this and then plan on some type of duplication.

John

[2BNTV]

A person at work has a daughter in the school and she is OK, Thank GOD.

It is being reported Ryan Lanza is the shooter and he killed his mother at the school and they found his brother dead at home.

I am sick thinking these small children are dead and will ever know the joys that come with growing up and having children themselves. Those surviving children are tramatized by this tradgedy and were crying.

Thoughts and prayers for all affected by this tradgedy. :pray:

[KayakerNC]

The 2nd Amendment is there to curb abuse of government.

Really?
I thought it was in there to have a readily available militia. :confused:

[Taltarzac725]

Really?
I thought it was in there to have a readily available militia. :confused:

Militia for what? In terms of the people who wrote the Constitution so that they would have enough arms to fight off the British as well as Native Americans and for whatever they might encounter in the very raw areas of much of the Colonial US.

I do feel that access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons is kind of a hard sale to make given that the Constitution was written when they were fighting with ax, musket, sword, tomahawk, bow-and-arrow, and cannon.

[Lark7]

We should all give an extra hug and kiss to our children and grandchildren this evening. We are blessed that each was not a victim of this tragedy. And our prayers should be for those parents, grandparents, siblings, and others who were touched by the victims. Life is very fragile.

[cologal]

I agree the cause was not guns, But as God is my witness, without AUTOMATIC HAND guns, this would not have resulted in so many deaths.
My prayers go out to all for this senseless tragedy.

Amen! We have the right to bear arms no question but I doubt the framers could have imagined the guns of today.We need to start a national discussion about gun violence....

My heart goes out to those parents who lost a child today.

[steamdogman]

It is hard to fathom what the parents, brothers and sisters and grandparents of these poor little children are going through tonight! This morning they probably all sat down at the breakfast table and grabbed their lunches and headed out to the school bus which was their daily routine.

Our hearts have to go out to the parents etc. Our hearts also go out to the family of the teachers who were also killed.

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS IN THEIR LIFE TIMES LET ALONE PARENTS AND SIBBLINGS.

There are no answers to this dilema but it just seems to be occuring much much too often in this Country.

[Villages PL]

I'm very familiar with Newtown because my sister and her family lived there years ago and her kids went to that school. It's a very rural, sparcely populated, community as I recall. It seems unlikely for such a tragedy to happen in such a peaceful place.

Newtown is also known for having a mental hospital but so far there doesn't seem to be any connection with it. My grandmother stayed there in her last years because she had dementia (hardening of the arteries). Also, I had a girlfriend whose brother stayed there because he was severely retarded. That was a long time ago.

It's difficult to understand why anyone would shoot and kill little children. What was the purpose of that?

[shcisamax]

Militia for what? In terms of the people who wrote the Constitution so that they would have enough arms to fight off the British as well as Native Americans and what ever for they might encounter in the very raw areas of much of the Colonial US.

I do feel that access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons is kind of a hard sale to make given that the Constitution was written when they were fighting with ax, musket, sword, tomahawk, bow-and-arrow, and cannon.

Thank you for putting it in perspective.

[buckscounty]

I saw that on the AOL News. Horrible. Not sure if there is any kind of solution to these kind of tragedies. Cannot really do away with guns. Just look at how well Prohibition worked with getting rid of alcohol? They seemed to make booze even more prevalent in certain sections of society by outlawing it. 18th Amendment (http://history1900s.about.com/od/1910s/a/18thamendment.htm)

Prayers for those whose lives have changed or been lost because of this.

Yes, we can do away with assault weapons, who needs them, any grandparent out there who has a solution, lets do it. It took one mother to bring drunk driving to light.

[lovesports]

Militia for what? In terms of the people who wrote the Constitution so that they would have enough arms to fight off the British as well as Native Americans and what ever for they might encounter in the very raw areas of much of the Colonial US.

I do feel that access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons is kind of a hard sale to make given that the Constitution was written when they were fighting with ax, musket, sword, tomahawk, bow-and-arrow, and cannon.

I so agree with you Tal, and many others here, who question the need to have all these assault weapons.
I have some terrible personal experience with school shootings while my daughter was at VT.
Please Please Please, lets work on getting these assault weapons banned. Even my family members who are NRA members agree with this. Shooting little sweethearts, can it be any worse? Words can not express how sad this sitaution is.

[shcisamax]

I so agree with you Tal, and many others here, who question the need to have all these assault weapons.
I have some terrible personal experience with school shootings while my daughter was at VT.
Please Please Please, lets work on getting these assault weapons banned. Even my family members who are NRA members agree with this. Shooting little sweethearts, can it be any worse? Words can not express how sad this sitaution is.

Maybe the NRA should start the movement.

[shcisamax]

I'm very familiar with Newtown because my sister and her family lived there years ago and her kids went to that school. It's a very rural, sparcely populated, community as I recall. It seems unlikely for such a tragedy to happen in such a peaceful place.

Newtown is also known for having a mental hospital but so far there doesn't seem to be any connection with it. My grandmother stayed there in her last years because she had dementia (hardening of the arteries). Also, I had a girlfriend whose brother stayed there because he was severely retarded. That was a long time ago.

It's difficult to understand why anyone would shoot and kill little children. What was the purpose of that?

It isn't quite as sparsely populated as you may remember. It is however a very peaceful place that at one point was named one of the the safest places to live.

[justjim]

It isn't quite as sparsely populated as you may remember. It is however a very peaceful place that at one point was named one of the the safest places to live.

My wife and I were in this area two summers ago visiting a friend. Newtown and surrounding area is (was) a very lovely peaceful community of upper middle class homes. No place is safe from a mentally deranged person. Our prayers are for all the families who lost loved ones in this needless tragedy. Gun control is a subject for another day.

[De Lis]

:pray:

Prayers are needed for many people right now for many reasons.

Let us not to forget all those teachers who shielded the children!

[eweissenbach]

I have stayed out of the gun control discussion, largely because for some inexplicable reason it becomes highly politicized. Perhaps it is time for all Americans, including the NRA, to agree that assault weapons, oversized cartridge clips and the gun show exeption to gun registration need to be outlawed. Owning guns for personal safety, and/or hunting is a constitutional right that I agree with. However, I see NO reason that any law abiding citizen needs an assault or automatic weapon, or an oversized cartridge clip. We settled long ago on the prudence of requiring registration for those purchasing weapons, so why does the gunshow exemption persist? I own guns and come from a long line of hunters, yet I see no reason that anyone supports the issues I have outlined. The NRA is simply afraid that any control will ultimately lead to complete control of firearms, and that is simply not the will of the majority of the people in my opinion. We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.

[Mack184]

All I know is that anybody over 40 NEVER had to fear this sort of insanity when they went to school. I have all sorts of thoughts as to why this is, but if I write them I will fall into disfavor with the Board Police for being political.

[KayakerNC]

I have stayed out of the gun control discussion, largely because for some inexplicable reason it becomes highly politicized. Perhaps it is time for all Americans, including the NRA, to agree that assault weapons, oversized cartridge clips and the gun show exeption to gun registration need to be outlawed. Owning guns for personal safety, and/or hunting is a constitutional right that I agree with. However, I see NO reason that any law abiding citizen needs an assault or automatic weapon, or an oversized cartridge clip. We settled long ago on the prudence of requiring registration for those purchasing weapons, so why does the gunshow exemption persist? I own guns and come from a long line of hunters, yet I see no reason that anyone supports the issues I have outlined. The NRA is simply afraid that any control will ultimately lead to complete control of firearms, and that is simply not the will of the majority of the people in my opinion. We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.
:agree:
Growing up in Michigan, I had my 1st gun (20 guage bolt-action shotgun) at 14. Many a meal from pheasant, partridge, and squirrels.
I think the NRA should get out in front on this issue, they have the knowledge and expertise to make a difference. However, I don't think today's NRA is the same one as I remember from many years ago, so I'm not really optimistic.

[shcisamax]

We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.
No opposition here.

[eweissenbach]

:agree:
Growing up in Michigan, I had my 1st gun (20 guage bolt-action shotgun) at 14. Many a meal from pheasant, partridge, and squirrels.
I think the NRA should get out in front on this issue, they have the knowledge and expertise to make a difference. However, I don't think today's NRA is the same one as I remember from many years ago, so I'm not really optimistic.

Very true: I was an NRA member for many years, but dropped my membership when they began to get politically involved in a very partisan and devisive way.

[billethkid]

the guns as already stated are not the problem.
We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.

AND GOD forbid anymore that we try to do something about and bring into action every political, special interest group, minority group (not referring to race) who MIGHT object. And as a result the now all too common place linguine spined leaders at every level who fear to offend somebody for something.

We continue to allow the degrading of core valuesthat actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad.

GOD forbid we try to use dicipline...punishment...or law enforcement.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.

Does anyone think for one minute that gun control would have prevented the lunatic of today from employing some other means of accomplishing the need to do some killing? Of course not.

IT AIN'T THE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

[eweissenbach]

the guns as already stated are not the problem.
We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.

AND GOD forbid anymore that we try to do something about and bring into action every political, special interest group, minority group (not referring to race) who MIGHT object. And as a result the now all too common place linguine spined leaders at every level who fear to offend somebody for something.

We continue to allow the degrading of core valuesthat actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad.

GOD forbid we try to use dicipline...punishment...or law enforcement.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.

Does anyone think for one minute that gun control would have prevented the lunatic of today from employing some other means of accomplishing the need to do some killing? Of course not.

IT AIN'T THE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

You are right - to a degree. It is not JUST the guns!!!!!! Most of what you say is contributory, but add to those issues the easy access to guns and you have a volitile mix. I know dozens, maybe hundreds, of hunters and gun owners, yet I know no one that owns an automatic weapon or "assault weapon". I think the position that it is not the guns, fails to recognize a part of the problem that is key, and seems to justify the mentality of troubled people who amass weapons intended to do harm to people. I have heard the catchphrase, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sounds reasonable, but I would revise it to say, guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.

[janmcn]

the guns as already stated are not the problem.
We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.

AND GOD forbid anymore that we try to do something about and bring into action every political, special interest group, minority group (not referring to race) who MIGHT object. And as a result the now all too common place linguine spined leaders at every level who fear to offend somebody for something.

We continue to allow the degrading of core valuesthat actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad.

GOD forbid we try to use dicipline...punishment...or law enforcement.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.

Does anyone think for one minute that gun control would have prevented the lunatic of today from employing some other means of accomplishing the need to do some killing? Of course not.

IT AIN'T THE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

Too bad you're not in Newtown CT tonight to preach your sermon to the parents of those 20 young children or the families of the adults that died today.

[shcisamax]

If the guy had to reload instead of getting off 100 rounds at a time, there is a chance the outcome may have been different. For sure, with the weapons, there was no possible outcome other than what happened. I honestly don't understand WHAT the defense is for having assault and automatic weapons. Just because the constitution gives us the right to bear arms, does that include nuclear bombs? Where do you draw the line to have a reasonable right to bear arms versus unrealistic absurdity. THERE IS NO REASONABLE REASON TO HAVE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

[Bucco]

I have stayed out of the gun control discussion, largely because for some inexplicable reason it becomes highly politicized. Perhaps it is time for all Americans, including the NRA, to agree that assault weapons, oversized cartridge clips and the gun show exeption to gun registration need to be outlawed. Owning guns for personal safety, and/or hunting is a constitutional right that I agree with. However, I see NO reason that any law abiding citizen needs an assault or automatic weapon, or an oversized cartridge clip. We settled long ago on the prudence of requiring registration for those purchasing weapons, so why does the gunshow exemption persist? I own guns and come from a long line of hunters, yet I see no reason that anyone supports the issues I have outlined. The NRA is simply afraid that any control will ultimately lead to complete control of firearms, and that is simply not the will of the majority of the people in my opinion. We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.

You are correct about the politics of this issue. It already started on MSNBC...very specifilly

I do not like guns, never used guns, and in my gut agree on the atutomatic weapons.

On the other hand, when we look at these sad situations as a gun only problem we really do a disservice to the country. This is BASICALLY a result of the total breakdown in our society and not just guns. BUT ongoing conversations will ignore that aspect and focus on guns only. Those who think this is a GUN problem have their head deep in the sand

[Justjac]

All I know is that anybody over 40 NEVER had to fear this sort of insanity when they went to school. I have all sorts of thoughts as to why this is, but if I write them I will fall into disfavor with the Board Police for being political.
Sadly, gun control becomes the topic of conversation when an incident such as this occurs...

Yet, no one ever looks beyond...i.e., why does a young person turn to such violence...could it be the result of seeing nothing but violence on tv...in the news...in games, on the internet, at the movies...

I agree with some of the above posts...in my day, I never feared someone coming to school with a gun. Then again, the most violent things I witnessed on tv was the light-hearted cartoon "Heckle and Jeckle."

And, the evening news was filled with fact-checked information...not speculation and competitive "breaking" news scripted to gain larger viewing audiences.

Oh what I wouldn't give to see two old crows back on television!

[Mack184]

Controlling guns only takes away freedoms from law-abiding citzens. While it is a trite saying it is true.."If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns". Do you really think that taking away guns from legal, law-abiding citizens is going to matter one whit to the thugs and the crazies who can get them illegally? Every major city in this country has thousands of thugs running around with illegally gotten guns. They cannot legally possess them because they are convicted criminals or head cases but they have them just the same, and they will continue get them if guns are taken from law-abiding citizens. Cocaine is illegal everywhere in the USA. That hasn't stopped it from being a billion dollar illegal business in the USA. Do you want THAT kind of business going on with guns?

Also fully-automatic weapons are completely illegal for private use, so if this guy was using a fully-automatic weapon then he had it illegally. The illegality of it all didn't stop him, did it?

[eweissenbach]

It is not a one or the other issue. Clearly the biggest problem is the gunman, the sociopath. However, that does not preclude the contributory factor of readily available weapons. Both need to be dealt with.

[Villageshooter]

My prayers to those who are grieving tonite. They are living every parents nightmare of laying to rest one of there children ,,, children are suppose to bury the parents not the other way around.. Godspeed

[Barefoot]

Sadly, gun control becomes the topic of conversation when an incident such as this occurs... Yet, no one ever looks beyond...i.e., why does a young person turn to such violence...could it be the result of seeing nothing but violence on tv...in the news...in games, on the internet, at the movies...


I agree with Justjac. In our society, we need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

[lovesports]

It is not a one or the other issue. Clearly the biggest problem is the gunman, the sociopath. However, that does not preclude the contributory factor of readily available weapons. Both need to be dealt with.

Ed, I so agree.
These mass killings are not something we can tolerate. What more has to happen ??? These were tiny young innocents. We can't just have these shootings going on and on.

[anarick]

My heart goes out to the victims families, friends and the entire community of Newtown, Conn. No one should have to suffer the loss of loved one especially in such a horrific way.
We should all pray for the families and friends of the victims.

[cologal]

Controlling guns only takes away freedoms from law-abiding citzens. While it is a trite saying it is true.."If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns". Do you really think that taking away guns from legal, law-abiding citizens is going to matter one whit to the thugs and the crazies who can get them illegally? Every major city in this country has thousands of thugs running around with illegally gotten guns. They cannot legally possess them because they are convicted criminals or head cases but they have them just the same, and they will continue get them if guns are taken from law-abiding citizens. Cocaine is illegal everywhere in the USA. That hasn't stopped it from being a billion dollar illegal business in the USA. Do you want THAT kind of business going on with guns?

Also fully-automatic weapons are completely illegal for private use, so if this guy was using a fully-automatic weapon then he had it illegally. The illegality of it all didn't stop him, did it?

I don't think cocaine ever killed an Kindergarten class... FYI guns were purchased legally but they were semi-automatic. I support restrictions for semi, auto and extended clips.

[Bobbie416]

If the guy had to reload instead of getting off 100 rounds at a time, there is a chance the outcome may have been different. For sure, with the weapons, there was no possible outcome other than what happened. I honestly don't understand WHAT the defense is for having assault and automatic weapons. Just because the constitution gives us the right to bear arms, does that include nuclear bombs? Where do you draw the line to have a reasonable right to bear arms versus unrealistic absurdity. THERE IS NO REASONABLE REASON TO HAVE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

I agree. The guns were legally registered to the killer's mother, the kindergarten teacher. I do not understand why she needed, or wanted, these guns. I do not understand why anyone not fighting a war needs these weapons.

[ugotme]

You are right - to a degree. It is not JUST the guns!!!!!! Most of what you say is contributory, but add to those issues the easy access to guns and you have a volitile mix. I know dozens, maybe hundreds, of hunters and gun owners, yet I know no one that owns an automatic weapon or "assault weapon". I think the position that it is not the guns, fails to recognize a part of the problem that is key, and seems to justify the mentality of troubled people who amass weapons intended to do harm to people. I have heard the catchphrase, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sounds reasonable, but I would revise it to say, guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.


While I understand your position, your revised saying is not true. I have owned guns for many years (40 or so) and I have never even pointed one of my guns at anyone. Yes, guns in the hands of the wrong people - criminals, sociopaths etc. are dangerous. I would venture to say that these types of people can get their hands on a weapon, whether bought from another criminal or stolen, very easily.

There are, however, millions of law abiding citizens who own guns for recreation. So YES - guns do kill people - in the hands of the wrong person. Which I do believe may be to what you were referring. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Guns kill people in the same way that forks made me fat.

[ugotme]

Guns kill people in the same way that forks made me fat.

Don't forget spoons !!!!

[ilovetv]

Two things about banning automatic weapons to prevent such massacres or reducing the numbers killed:

1. "What's now beyond dispute — largely from the [Columbine] killers' journals, which have been released over the past few years, is this: Harris and Klebold killed 13 and wounded 24, but they had hoped to kill thousands.

The pair planned the attacks for more than a year, building 100 bombs and persuading friends to buy them guns. Just after 11 a.m. on April 20, they lugged a pair of duffel bags containing propane-tank bombs into Columbine's crowded cafeteria and another into the kitchen, then stepped outside and waited.

Had the bombs exploded, they'd have killed virtually everyone eating lunch and brought the school's second-story library down atop the cafeteria, police say. Armed with a pistol, a rifle and two sawed-off shotguns, the pair planned to pick off survivors fleeing the carnage.

As a last terrorist act, a pair of gasoline bombs planted in Harris' Honda and Klebold's BMW had been rigged apparently to kill police, rescue teams, journalists and parents who rushed to the school — long after the pair expected they would be dead.

The pair had parked the cars about 100 yards apart in the student lot. The bombs didn't go off......" (*)

2. The 9-1-1 Massacre was accomplished with bombs consisting of loaded for cross-country jet fuel tanks flown into the buildings.

When sick minds are set on doing a massacre, they will find a way to do it regardless of the legality of the various types of guns.

To me, the common denominator in most of these mass shootings such as Columbine, Ft. Hood, Tuscon, Denver Theater, Virginia Tech and probably this latest massacre in Newtown is that school and military (Ft. Hood and Walter Reed) faculty, justice system authorities and counseling professionals knew long before the events that these killers were sick enough in the head to be planning and capable of carrying out such an event.

But "privacy" laws and notions, maintaining a good institutional image, and political correctness are helping to keep such individuals and their evil, sick propensities under wraps and they are allowed to be free to stalk and plan and execute.

I suspect the killer in this case, too, was known to have a history of sick and twisted thinking but more and more kids and classmates have been taught to be "tolerant" and "nonjudgmental". Those two good concepts have become distorted to the point of many young people thinking it's worse to be "judgemental" than it is to be planning an evil, murderous and suicidal killing spree.

(*) 10 years later, the real story behind Columbine - USATODAY.com (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-13-columbine-myths_N.htm)

[Mack184]

I don't think cocaine ever killed an Kindergarten class... FYI guns were purchased legally but they were semi-automatic. I support restrictions for semi, auto and extended clips.
Cocaine has killed, addicted and sickend thousands.

[cologal]

Cocaine has killed, addicted and sickend thousands.

yes but cocaine did that to people who chose to use it, not a classroom full of 5 year olds.

I support the ban of high capacity clips, auto and semi automatic weapons and body armor.

[cologal]

Guns kill people in the same way that forks made me fat.

Tis true as each has to be used... It's called cause and effect!

[Golfingnut]

First and foremost is the incredible sorrow I feel for the innocent souls of Newtown. May God shower comfort on us all during this terrible time.

The real cop out is to say things like, Guns don't kill people, people kill people or The crazy will just find another way if you ban guns. I sincerely believe it is the assault weapons, extended clips and automatic firing that give these cowards the False courage to carry out these wicked acts. Even if I am dead wrong, would America be any worse off if we were free of these fire arms capable of mass killings?

If anyone out there has the ability to set up a responsible gun owners group that would work toward banning Assault Weapons, Extended Clips, Automatic Firing and more stringent rules for gun shows, Add me to your notification as I will be happy to volunteer for that cause in any way I can. Keep in mind that the opposition will say the government is trying to erode gun owners rights. That is false as gun ownership should not mean that any citizen can own and operate military style weaponry on our streets.

[Golfingnut]

I agree with Justjac. In our society, we need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

Absolutely, we give them all this to watch and then provide them with the same assault weapons to carry it out and be the star of their own video games.

[graciegirl]

Absolutely, we give them all this to watch and then provide them with the same assault weapons to carry it out and be the star of their own video games.

No one needs assault weapons. Video games are WAY too violent. Ethics aren't allowed to be taught in schools and there is a lot wrong with our society


Little ones have been murdered. Their parents lives will never, ever completely be happy again. The small innocents just went to school. We all have sent our children to school. I taught kindergarten for decades. They are the most wonderful age of all.

We are all mourning and in so doing we are going through all of the reactions; shock, anger, confusion. We are just incredulous.

I post too much. We all talk too much sometimes. There aren't any easy answers here. We can't say it was caused by this or this or would not have happened because of this or this. We are the older generation, supposedly the wise ones, we should be able to see this all clearer somehow.

We don't know if this man was sane or angry or raised with no moral compass. We don't know and if we did, what could we do?

It is just awful and doesn't look any better after we slept on it.

I feel so bad for all of us kind and loving people who just are absolutely powerless to help or to comfort.

God help us all.



We are all together in trying to absorb how anyone could do this, ever.

[senior citizen]

yes but cocaine did that to people who chose to use it, not a classroom full of 5 year olds.

I support the ban of high capacity clips, auto and semi automatic weapons and body armor.


I'm with you.

Just imagining the fear that those innocent kindergarteners, as well as the other grades of children, experienced from a deranged youth who obviously was mentally ill..........makes me think of my own grandbabies.

God only knows why his mom, knowing his condition, would even have owned guns in the first place.

That community and that part of Connecticut is a lovely place, where people moved to live in peace and harmony and raise their innocent children in a safe environment.

Someone else mentioned that we are all supposed to (nowadays) tolerate people like the shooter and it is part of the problem. Even in our town, we know of "youth" and "middle aged" folks who are all on psychotropic drugs due to mental issues. Sometimes a cocktail of drugs.

These drugs all interact differently, depending on one's system.

We've been told by a local sheriff (neighbor) to lock our doors and be careful if dealing with a certain one or two individuals.....one a teenager, the other a preppy guy who graduated Harvard. Go figure. They come in all shapes and sizes and ages. No one knows what "meds" their neighbor is on or what cocktail of drugs......and when they are going to explode.
..........usually venting their misplaced anger on totally innocent little angels such as those in Connecticut yesterday..........it's very sad for the parents, especially leading up to Christmas......which will always be a sad reminder, year after year.

My prayers also went out to the families of the teachers and principal, etc.,having educators in our family and extended family. One never imagines when they are going to step into a schoolroom setting and experience pure evil. I envisioned my son when he was in kindergarten and our daughter, ditto.......and all of our grandchildren, ditto.......and it was heart wrenching to think of them mowed down by guns........of any kind.

My husband has always been a hunter and is for hunter's rights and citizens rights to "bear arms"........but it's how do you keep them out of the hands of the deranged folks? We also remember Columbine in Colorado as if it were yesterday..........and Virginia Tech, etc., etc.

[senior citizen]

P.S.
Our town's morning newspaper said that the shooter was an honors student, his mom was a decent person........his brother claims he had a "personality disorder" and someone else claims he was "autistic". I know what autism is. I do not think that is connected to the personality disorder part. I have two 40 some year old nieces who are both autistic, but the condition seems to run on the German side of their mother's family.....uncles, aunts, etc. They are both mute. I don't believe this boy was mute, or at least that part of it has not been published..........of course, there are different parts of the "autism spectrum" such as asburgers syndrome, etc.

My neices both have "hearts of gold" and although mute.....do write long letters. I would never be afraid of either one of them or expect any acting out like in CT.

The personality disorder might have been bi polar / schizophrenia.........like our neighbors whom we've been warned against by the sheriff. They have "attacked" their parents........and spouse........not fatally, but they have had police to the house on many occasions and been confined to mental facilities.

As it stands, with the killer dead.........he's taken his "reasons" to the grave with him.

His mom cannot speak, that's for sure. Only his dad and brother remain to shed some light on it all.........if they can. WE noticed his bro was taken in handcuffs to be questioned. Is that common procedure when you are innocent? We were surprised.

I know there was a mix up in the names in the beginning and Ryan, the living bro, was the suspected killer........later it was Adam.

[jblum315]

His brother was taken into custody because his ID was found on the suspect's body. He was not charged.

[Love2cruise]

I support the ban of high capacity clips, auto and semi automatic weapons and body armor.

I agree. Why do people who are not in law enforcement, military, etc. need those types of weapons and body armor? To all of the people who think its their right, try explaining that to 26 grieving families this morning.

[janmcn]

I can't understand why the shooter's mother didn't keep her four legally registered guns locked up, if it was known that the shooter had mental problems. If she had, she might be alive today along with the others.

[Figmo Bohica]

I have read all the posts on this. It will not be long before the object, guns, are blamed for what happened, taking all the responsibility away from the person. It seems that none of us are no longer held responsible for what we do, it is always someone else’s fault.


Well, folks, look in the mirror, that is the person who is responsible for this and the other horrendous acts of violence that have taken place in the past few years. That’s right, you, me and the rest of us. We have taught our children that they can do no wrong. If they do, and someone else corrects them, we, the parents come to their aid and defend them, making the other person look in the wrong. Shame on us. Back in my school days and play days, if I misbehaved in school or at a neighbors house and got in trouble, I could expect, double when I got home. Now if a teacher or neighbor says anything to “your child” you sue, telling your child it’s not their fault, its that mean person for saying something to you, even if the child is at fault.

Just look around us here in The Villages. How many of you stop at all stop signs, use your turn signals, let you underage grandchild drive your golf cart? You are just enforcing the fact that rules don’t apply to you ot them, only to the other person.

Will more incidents like this happen, ya bettcha, they will until we step up to the plate and take responsibility back and make our children understand that they have to be responsible for their actions.

Look at who we vote for and send to office. They make rules for us that they don’t have to follow. We allowed this, never said a word, and now we are reaping what we have sowed.

Shame on us. It’s time to make everyone take personal responsibility for their actions again and quite blaming any object for our misguided actions.

So if you are brave enough, look in the mirror and get busy changing things.

[janmcn]

I have read all the posts on this. It will not be long before the object, guns, are blamed for what happened, taking all the responsibility away from the person. It seems that none of us are no longer held responsible for what we do, it is always someone else’s fault.


Well, folks, look in the mirror, that is the person who is responsible for this and the other horrendous acts of violence that have taken place in the past few years. That’s right, you, me and the rest of us. We have taught our children that they can do no wrong. If they do, and someone else corrects them, we, the parents come to their aid and defend them, making the other person look in the wrong. Shame on us. Back in my school days and play days, if I misbehaved in school or at a neighbors house and got in trouble, I could expect, double when I got home. Now if a teacher or neighbor says anything to “your child” you sue, telling your child it’s not their fault, its that mean person for saying something to you, even if the child is at fault.

Just look around us here in The Villages. How many of you stop at all stop signs, use your turn signals, let you underage grandchild drive your golf cart? You are just enforcing the fact that rules don’t apply to you ot them, only to the other person.

Will more incidents like this happen, ya bettcha, they will until we step up to the plate and take responsibility back and make our children understand that they have to be responsible for their actions.

Look at who we vote for and send to office. They make rules for us that they don’t have to follow. We allowed this, never said a word, and now we are reaping what we have sowed.

Shame on us. It’s time to make everyone take personal responsibility for their actions again and quite blaming any object for our misguided actions.

So if you are brave enough, look in the mirror and get busy changing things.

Are you saying that everybody in the other industrial countries of the world take personal responsibility, except in the United States?

Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728. source NRA

[Figmo Bohica]

Are you saying that everybody in the other industrial countries of the world take personal responsibility, except in the United States?

Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728. source NRA

No, I really don't care what the other countries are doing. If you will do some research, you will find that a lot of the gun deaths in the US are gang related and that the children killing children are gang members.

People join gangs because it gives them a "family" to relate to and rules to follow. If you don't follow the gang rules there are consequences. To bad it not the same in the "real family."

[billethkid]

Too bad you're not in Newtown CT tonight to preach your sermon to the parents of those 20 young children or the families of the adults that died today.

Some of us are no less emtionally affected by the tragedy than another....others may try to measure that!!??

Some of us have opinions to offer that we believe could be/may be the cause or causes or contributors to the tragedy.

Let's try to continue to express our sympathy for those who lost their most precious possessions in this tragedy. And some of us hope that by expressing our opinions abaout the cause or causes that allowed this to happen will continue. And one day as a result will lead to meaningful prevention.

And hopefully those compelled to make totally and completely insensitive categorizations will abate until a more appropriate quorum.

btk

[DonH57]

It appears so far and not all the evidence has come to light but I suspect that the shooters mother or both parents were irresponsible gun owners by not securing unauthorized access to these weapons. I'm sure there are many more problems this family had than we will ever know. Ct. has some of the toughest gun laws in this country. I feel it is a big truth today no one takes responsibility anymore for anything. I try not to dwell on ifs or maybe's. I'm actually just so saddened by the events that unfolded yesterday I only want to focus on the lives lost.

[Lark7]

I concur that we should focus upon the loss of lives and those affected by the tragic events in Connecticut. We all search for how and why this could have happened - we tend to find "something" to hold accountable - finding "something" is easier that finding "someone". Having said that, we must also realize that, in the United States, we live in a culture of violence - a culture which we have allowed to germinate and one which is seemingly tolerated. The violence is real and the effects are so far reaching. Somehow, we must get beyond the dialogue and cultivate a climate of personal responsbility and accountability. And, we should never forget all those who were lost in this tragedy.

[shcisamax]

Tell me why it is necessary to exercise our 2nd amendment by owning four guns and a high power rifle? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. What possible reason could there be for owning such powerful weaponry? A disaster waiting to happen.

[jebartle]

My only question, when would it be necessary to have a gun with rapid fire, one shot after the other in this country? I understand the right to bear arms, for protection and hunting????....Of course we don't know what was going thru Adam's mind at the time, but I understand that he had a lot of "alone time" with video games and such....some of the video games can be very violent...But when there is a will, there is a way, Could this have been avoided, really!?





TE=billethkid;594750]the guns as already stated are not the problem.
We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.

AND GOD forbid anymore that we try to do something about and bring into action every political, special interest group, minority group (not referring to race) who MIGHT object. And as a result the now all too common place linguine spined leaders at every level who fear to offend somebody for something.

We continue to allow the degrading of core valuesthat actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad.

GOD forbid we try to use dicipline...punishment...or law enforcement.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.

Does anyone think for one minute that gun control would have prevented the lunatic of today from employing some other means of accomplishing the need to do some killing? Of course not.

IT AIN'T THE GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk[/QUOTE]

[Mack184]

I have read all the posts on this. It will not be long before the object, guns, are blamed for what happened, taking all the responsibility away from the person. It seems that none of us are no longer held responsible for what we do, it is always someone else’s fault.


Well, folks, look in the mirror, that is the person who is responsible for this and the other horrendous acts of violence that have taken place in the past few years. That’s right, you, me and the rest of us. We have taught our children that they can do no wrong. If they do, and someone else corrects them, we, the parents come to their aid and defend them, making the other person look in the wrong. Shame on us. Back in my school days and play days, if I misbehaved in school or at a neighbors house and got in trouble, I could expect, double when I got home. Now if a teacher or neighbor says anything to “your child” you sue, telling your child it’s not their fault, its that mean person for saying something to you, even if the child is at fault.

Just look around us here in The Villages. How many of you stop at all stop signs, use your turn signals, let you underage grandchild drive your golf cart? You are just enforcing the fact that rules don’t apply to you ot them, only to the other person.

Will more incidents like this happen, ya bettcha, they will until we step up to the plate and take responsibility back and make our children understand that they have to be responsible for their actions.

Look at who we vote for and send to office. They make rules for us that they don’t have to follow. We allowed this, never said a word, and now we are reaping what we have sowed.

Shame on us. It’s time to make everyone take personal responsibility for their actions again and quite blaming any object for our misguided actions.

So if you are brave enough, look in the mirror and get busy changing things.
:agree: I agree with you 1000% You are absolutely right on this. Excellent post and well written.

[Golfingnut]

It is the type of weapon and the ease of putting them in the hands of deranged people that I am troubled with. You can acquire an assault rifle and ammo easier than you can adopt a dog in this country. I am a hunter raised on a farm and will always own guns, but I find something kinda creepy about someone that wants assault rifles and automatic pistols like the glock and a 33 round clip.

[Happinow]

This latest incident has me at a complete loss for words. I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams that I would send my child to school only for them never to return alive. As some of you have stated, this world has become a different place with killings, no one being held accountable for much, the "F" word is most frequently used on TV now, sex is everywhere and humans run wild with not much guidance. I believe that reform starts with each of us. If we all took just one thing we did incorrectly......not stop at a stop sign, not littering, picking up after our pets, using our signals in the cars and carts.....just the little things.....it would be a start. We need to hold ourselves and our children accountable. The world is a mess and I fear it is going to get much worse so prepare. What happened to society and treating each other with kindness and respect? Maybe everyone needs to be armed?? Perhaps they would think twice about taking the lives of others.

[janmcn]

Some of us are no less emtionally affected by the tragedy than another....others may try to measure that!!??

Some of us have opinions to offer that we believe could be/may be the cause or causes or contributors to the tragedy.

Let's try to continue to express our sympathy for those who lost their most precious possessions in this tragedy. And some of us hope that by expressing our opinions abaout the cause or causes that allowed this to happen will continue. And one day as a result will lead to meaningful prevention.

And hopefully those compelled to make totally and completely insensitive categorizations will abate until a more appropriate quorum.

btk

I totally agree that we are all emotionally effected by this tragedy. I also agree that if these children's deaths don't cause our lawmakers to act, nothing will. Time for them to get busy.

[Barefoot]

Well, folks, look in the mirror, that is the person who is responsible for this and the other horrendous acts of violence that have taken place in the past few years. That’s right, you, me and the rest of us. We have taught our children that they can do no wrong. If they do, and someone else corrects them, we, the parents come to their aid and defend them, making the other person look in the wrong. Shame on us. It’s time to make everyone take personal responsibility for their actions again and quit blaming any object for our misguided actions. So if you are brave enough, look in the mirror and get busy changing things.


the guns as already stated are not the problem. We have become, like it or not, an anything goes society....swearing is common place in public, movies, television....killing in entertainment is common place in the news, the movies and on television...ditto sex....ditto people slaughtering people.
We continue to allow the degrading of core values that actually punish those who do wrong.

It is not the guns....look in the mirror....we the people have become so permissive we have no idea anymore what to do when something bad happens or when someone does something bad. IT IS NOT THE GUNS.....that is a cop out, political issue that will solve absolutely nothing.
btk


.... we must also realize that, in the United States, we live in a culture of violence - a culture which we have allowed to germinate and one which is seemingly tolerated. The violence is real and the effects are so far reaching. Somehow, we must get beyond the dialogue and cultivate a climate of personal responsbility and accountability.

I agree with Figmo, BTK and Lark ...

It's not the gun laws that are to blame. It's the culture of violence in which we live. We need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught AT HOME to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

[billethkid]

the issue is to determine what it is they should be acting upon.
If they are capable of acting it will not be because they know, understand the problem and are taking action(s) to be sure it does not happen again.

The government has shown time and again they will not do ANYTHING that will go against their re-election. Period!

If they cannot agree to stop spending money they do not have how in the world does any thinking person believe they will be capable of doing anything about tragedieis like the recent one in CT?

Let's just go along for a moment that all those who are against gunds and or think that gun controls will prevent such tragedies. So now all congress has to do is determine and agree on which kinds of guns should be controlled or out lawed. Auto? Semi auto? Any gun that can be fired rapidly? 20 shot magazine? 12? 10? Domestic only? Foreign ? Ammo? calibers?

If anybody thinks our congress will magically find a way to solve the problem....I am waiting to hear what that might sound like.

Guns are nothing more than another political lightning rod that will be controversial forever just like all other partisan issues....infortunately.

What I want to know is what is going to be done to root out the cause of the tragedy? What did this young man do? why? who knew? who knew and in our current society would not come forward to do something about it?

Several other posts refer to the society of today and our attitudes as the real problem. The notion of "not in my back yard"......"dare not say something for fear of offending some one".....eliminate the role political correctness (barf....happens every time I say the words).....bring back discipline. AND since none of this is going to happen....it is much easier to go after the guns. And I use the term easier.....we shall see.

As I have said and figmo bohica and others....it starts by looking in the mirror and demanding change......it is high time for our society to take a step back to a time when many of the ills of today just simply would not be allowed.

Then and only then will there be a possibility to prevent another tragedy like CT.

btk

[janmcn]

I agree with Figmo, BTK and Lark ...

It's not the gun laws that are to blame. It's the culture of violence in which we live. We need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught AT HOME to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

As a Canadian, maybe you can explain what Canadians do differently that causes such a discrepancy in the number of annual gun deaths, 52 in Canada compared to 10,728 in the US is 2011?

How do Canadians not allow the culture of violence that is running wildly in this country? Canadians see the same movies, play the same video games, use the same internet? Is it all a matter of family values being different in Canada, or more discipline in the homes?

[buggyone]

"It's not the gun laws that are to blame. It's the culture of violence in which we live. We need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught AT HOME to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

I would agree with parts of this post and disagree with other parts. First, when we were kids, we almost all had cap guns and played Cowboys and Indians with plenty of play shooting of each other and seeing each other clasp their hand over their heart and go down dying. There were all the cowboy movies and television shows with Roy, Gene, and Hoppy doing violence on the bad guys who did violence on good guys. None was graphic!!

It is the graphic violence of video games like Black Ops or World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto that is a problem (but not the whole problem). Who buys the games for the kids? Mom and Dad do and that is the problem.

The teaching of respect needs to be taught at home, school, and church.

There also is NO NEED for civilians to own high capacity magazines for their rifles or pistols. There is a need for more evaluation and treatment of people suspected of mental problems. I am sure Figmo and Ladydoc would agree with those two statements.

Will Congress do anything? Probably not - the NRA has too many Congressmen scared of not winning re-election if they vote in a reasonable (non-NRA approved) way.

[gerryann]

Tell me why it is necessary to exercise our 2nd amendment by owning four guns and a high power rifle? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. What possible reason could there be for owning such powerful weaponry? A disaster waiting to happen.

The shooter has been said to have "personality" disorder, or "Ausbergers". Whichever he may or may not have had.....what kind of mother would own and keep guns around a mentaly impaired child??

[Figmo Bohica]

Buggy, good to see you again. Yes, I have told some that were taking my class to get a concealed permit that I would not sign their certificate, because of their attitude. Not adult enough to be responsible to own let along carry a firearm. Have been told "I will sue you." My answer, sue away, we will see who wins what.

You will have to explain to me why civilians should not be allowed to own hi-cap magazines for pistol or rifles. As long as the criminals own them, law abiding citizens have the right to own them. So on that one, we will have to agree to disagree.

You can thank our criminal congress critters for allowing all the PC on the mental cases to be roaming the streets. Personal freedom and don't you dare say anything about someone's kid, they will sue you. See no parental responsibility about raising their children. Why do we let a small majority take prayer out of schools. Why do we, you name it, allow a small majority to take away anything. If you don't like it, don't do it.

My heart goes out to all those that lost love ones. I know how it feels. It is something that you never get over.

All of us need to start to do something to stop this, and make, from the top down, start taking responsibility and get this country back to the basics. Now, not, next week, but now, so that something like this does not ever happen again.

[shcisamax]

You will have to explain to me why civilians should not be allowed to own hi-cap magazines for pistol or rifles. As long as the criminals own them, law abiding citizens have the right to own them. So on that one, we will have to agree to disagree.



Just because criminals own them, doesn't make it a reason for civilians to own them. If there are no assault type weapons for sale, there will be a very limited black market for them and they would
be EXTREMELY expensive. Most criminals, and deranged individuals, the type you and I will come in contact with will never get their hands on them because they don't have lots of money. The cartel types and organized crime types will still but the majority of these disasters are not from cartels and organized crime. They are from street gangs, deranged people and low lifes.

[Taltarzac725]

Just because criminals own them, doesn't make it a reason for civilians to own them. If there are no assault type weapons for sale, there will be a very limited black market for them and they would
be EXTREMELY expensive. Most criminals, and deranged individuals, the type you and I will come in contact with will never get their hands on them because they don't have lots of money. The cartel types and organized crime types will still but the majority of these disasters are not from cartels and organized crime. They are from street gangs, deranged people and low lifes.

The folks or other relatives of the deranged might have access to assault weapons. And you can never really tell when someone with what appears to be mild mental health problems will break. There are a very large number of people in the US who have some kind of mild mental health problem. http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=about_mental_illness

I do not see any easy answers with preventing these kind of atrocities.

[westcoastsunshine]

I have received many emails and facebook messages from
distraught, grieving Mothers. These wonderful women come from
many different cultures yet we are all feeling one and
the same emotion......profound sadness.

One woman sent me this so I thought I would pass it
along:

THE SOLDIER'S SANCTUARY

Evil does not exist within a gun.
It exists in the minds and hearts
of those who pull the trigger for
evil purposes.

If I had it to do over, I would never have purchased
those popular, violent and graphic video games for
my son. What was I thinking.... should have
banned them from our home to take a stand against
violence!

This bible phrase has new meaning for me:

"Suffer little children and forbid them not to
come unto me such is the kingdom of heaven"
- Gospel of Matthew Chapter 19 Verse 14


WCS

[gerryann]

As a Canadian, maybe you can explain what Canadians do differently that causes such a discrepancy in the number of annual gun deaths, 52 in Canada compared to 10,728 in the US is 2011?

How do Canadians not allow the culture of violence that is running wildly in this country? Canadians see the same movies, play the same video games, use the same internet? Is it all a matter of family values being different in Canada, or more discipline in the homes?

I agree, but that is a HUGE discrepancy. Are the guns laws stricter in Canada? Must be......

[Taltarzac725]

I agree, but that is a HUGE discrepancy. Are the guns laws stricter in Canada? Must be......

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada)

[eweissenbach]

You will have to explain to me why civilians should not be allowed to own hi-cap magazines for pistol or rifles. As long as the criminals own them, law abiding citizens have the right to own them. So on that one, we will have to agree to disagree.



With all due respect Figmo, this is a ridiculous argument. Civilians including the criminal type, should not be allowed to own hi-cap magazines or other military weapons because there is no legitimate reason for them to own them. If they were unlawful, there would be a possibility they were found out and the weapons would be confiscated and they could be prosecuted. Realizing that they could own them illegally, what would be the logic that law abiders should then also own them? Do you forsee a firefight between criminals and law abiding citizens where each armed with assault type weaponry the outcome would be positive? This is the kind of stuff the NRA promotes and most people disagree with, but since they have many lawmakers in their pocket, little can be achieved. I think the overwhelming majority of Americans think that military weaponry should not be in the hands of civilians. I think the overwhelming majority of Americans cannot fathom why 40% of guns sold are sold without background checks as the result of the "gun show loophole". I am sure you are a conscienscious gun owner and instructor, but unfortunately it has been proven that many people are not. . And I am not a sissy or a pollyanna, I understand that we cannot always prevent things like this before the fact, but that does not mean we should not take whatever actions are available to us sooner rather that later

By the way, when I look in the mirror I am pleased with the person I see. The people that are narcissistic or mentally disturbed look in the mirror and believe they see the only person that is right or has worth.

[rubicon]

We have become a re-active and very emotional society. witness how long and extensive coverage continues with celebrity deaths mass shootings, a celebrity's bad behavior. this extensive coverage is bad because it marginalizes the event and actually creates more apathy than empathy. Hollywood types will cry out for gun control and then continue to make movies like Ä natural born Killer."

Worse yet all of this attention getting will cause politicians to look for an easy answer and of course that easy answer is gun control. Forgive me but i was not one to fall for Obama's alligator's tears. He was posing for his push on gun control.

The direct cause of this latest mass killing was again a young person in desperate need of mental health care. One cannot judge the family. There is little help either from private or public sources for families. Some families abondon mentally unstable members, while some mentally unstable leave on their own accord. Even for famiies willing to help the mental health community is either inept or not provided suffiecient funds in which to operate successfully. Mental health professionals often misdiagnose their patients, some abuse them or simply show little compassion in the same manner they would a cancer patient.

The direct cause of this and many such tragedies is our nation's inability to deal effectively with this problem but this long drawn out emotional display by the mass media will bury this fact.. We seem not to have a problem with tackling other issues, some more complex and life threatening.

In past generations our american ancestors dealt with massacre, those killed in wars, etc by paying proper respects and then moving on with the determination that they would deal with the root cause and eliminate it. Now we mourn and mourn and mourn and then deflate

To be sure my heart cries out for those killed in Connecticut but if we really want to honor them do it by writing to your represenatives to pass laws that help mental health professionals and families deal effectively with loved ones needing care.

Remember several school children were attacked not with a gun but a knife in China. finally let me end with this disclosure. I do not own a gun nor do i have the motivation to want one. However, I do believe strongly that the
2nd Amendment has as much relevance today as it did when it was originally passed. finally to those who believe that the orginators had flint locks and could not imagine today's weapons must remember that in today's world flint locks woud be ineffective. Ergo to suggest that semi-automatic don't fit the 2nd amendment must remeber we are looking at today's world not 1776.

[gerryann]

If this boy did not have access to a gun(guns), these children would be alive. Don't compare a gun to a knife....ridiculous.

Since Wisconsin recently approved the concealed gun law, I know of a whole lot of idiots out there with guns.....sitting in bars, getting drunk, with a gun in their pocket.

[eweissenbach]

Forgive me but i was not one to fall for Obama's alligator's tears. He was posing for his push on gun control.
.

You diminish the credibility of your arguments with a partisan political cheap-shot such as this.

[Barefoot]

As a Canadian, maybe you can explain what Canadians do differently that causes such a discrepancy in the number of annual gun deaths, 52 in Canada compared to 10,728 in the US is 2011?

How do Canadians not allow the culture of violence that is running wildly in this country? Canadians see the same movies, play the same video games, use the same internet? Is it all a matter of family values being different in Canada, or more discipline in the homes?

I haven't really examined the statistics. As far as I can see, all North American peoples are pretty similar, be it Ontario or Nebraska or Florida. Of course the population in Canada is around 34 million compared to around 311 million in the US. Canada does have the same culture of violence being readily available in movies, on the internet and in video games. I do see one difference between the countries. Canada is a very popular destination for immigrants, because we do encourage multiculturalism. We protect cultural identities and languages rather than expecting immigrants to become similar to us. It's just a personal observation, but there are a lot of immigrants from Europe and Asia who seem to hold their children to higher standards and expect more in terms of obedience, hard work and respect. Please don't flame me for saying that.

[shcisamax]

eweissenbach....I am renaming you to e wise is back.

[Madelaine Amee]

It's just a personal observation, but there are a lot of immigrants from Europe and Asia who seem to hold their children to higher standards and expect more in terms of obedience, hard work and respect. Please don't flame me for saying that.

Agree entirely with this last comment. But, I think this is the same with all immigrants who come to our countries looking for a better life, not so much for themselves, but definitely for their children.

One only has to look at the professions to see who are taking over the top positions, mainly children of immigrants because (IMO) they see the opportunities which they would never have had in their own countries, but our children have grown up with these opportunities and are very much inclined to take them for granted.

[graciegirl]

Agree entirely with this last comment. But, I think this is the same with all immigrants who come to our countries looking for a better life, not so much for themselves, but definitely for their children.

One only has to look at the professions to see who are taking over the top positions, mainly children of immigrants because (IMO) they see the opportunities which they would never have had in their own countries, but our children have grown up with these opportunities and are very much inclined to take them for granted.

I think you are right. And because children are being raised by others now rather than in the home like ours were, they aren't exactly getting the same things told them, day after day. And because we moms were human, we would be impatient if they didn't act fairly decently. We wanted them to turn out right. All of those things have changed. There are good caregivers for little ones but it is NOT the same, or as effective as people being with their own children when they are little and learning what matters from someone who truly loves you. (values)

But... all of those things cannot fix someone who is deranged or mentally ill. That isn't an issue with a simple answer.

[janmcn]

"It's not the gun laws that are to blame. It's the culture of violence in which we live. We need to stop exposing our children to violence on television, in the news, in video games, on the internet, at the movies. Children need to be taught AT HOME to love and respect others, and that violence isn't normal or permissable.

I would agree with parts of this post and disagree with other parts. First, when we were kids, we almost all had cap guns and played Cowboys and Indians with plenty of play shooting of each other and seeing each other clasp their hand over their heart and go down dying. There were all the cowboy movies and television shows with Roy, Gene, and Hoppy doing violence on the bad guys who did violence on good guys. None was graphic!!

It is the graphic violence of video games like Black Ops or World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto that is a problem (but not the whole problem). Who buys the games for the kids? Mom and Dad do and that is the problem.

The teaching of respect needs to be taught at home, school, and church.

There also is NO NEED for civilians to own high capacity magazines for their rifles or pistols. There is a need for more evaluation and treatment of people suspected of mental problems. I am sure Figmo and Ladydoc would agree with those two statements.

Will Congress do anything? Probably not - the NRA has too many Congressmen scared of not winning re-election if they vote in a reasonable (non-NRA approved) way.

That was then. This is now. What has changed, you ask? It's the ages of the victims in this case that makes it so horrific. After listening to the coroner explain how these little angels died, I am sick to my stomach.

What else has changed, you ask? The frequency that these events are happening -- one happened Tuesday, one happened Friday.

IMO, no law maker wants to have the blood of children on their hands.

[Bucco]

That was then. This is now. What has changed, you ask? It's the ages of the victims in this case that makes it so horrific. After listening to the coroner explain how these little angels died, I am sick to my stomach.

What else has changed, you ask? The frequency that these events are happening -- one happened Tuesday, one happened Friday.

IMO, no law maker wants to have the blood of children on their hands.

While I probably would support laws restricting the type of guns allowed for purchase...I simply know so little about guns, etc that is how I think I feel.

Same day this happened someone in China went after school children with a knife.

I submit the problem is NOT with guns.....people today live in a false world...a world of virtual reality. Generally speaking we live in a world where people think that what they think is what every one should think. We have no...none...feelings for others, only ourselves. We cloak that and manifest caring publicly but we do not...and again, I am speaking in a general sense. We are in this country so self involved that we feel we deserve what we want and when we want it and there is no reason we should not do what we want.

NOT ONE PERSON who knew this dark hearted person had problems came forward to have him taken off the street, and we will find many signs he exhibited but still he was protected. And the children died. Make a political issue of this and ignore the real problems and more will die.

Whether it is the debt of the country or any particular issue as with guns, not dealing with it because it is unpopular never ever works. Those you expect to take guns off the street put people ON the street that should not be there so why would anyone expect any different results here.

Bottom line...I hear folks on tv ranting and ravin about gun laws but never ever mentioning the real bottom line !

[janmcn]

While I probably would support laws restricting the type of guns allowed for purchase...I simply know so little about guns, etc that is how I think I feel.

Same day this happened someone in China went after school children with a knife.

I submit the problem is NOT with guns.....people today live in a false world...a world of virtual reality. Generally speaking we live in a world where people think that what they think is what every one should think. We have no...none...feelings for others, only ourselves. We cloak that and manifest caring publicly but we do not...and again, I am speaking in a general sense. We are in this country so self involved that we feel we deserve what we want and when we want it and there is no reason we should not do what we want.

NOT ONE PERSON who knew this dark hearted person had problems came forward to have him taken off the street, and we will find many signs he exhibited but still he was protected. And the children died. Make a political issue of this and ignore the real problems and more will die.

Whether it is the debt of the country or any particular issue as with guns, not dealing with it because it is unpopular never ever works. Those you expect to take guns off the street put people ON the street that should not be there so why would anyone expect any different results here.

Bottom line...I hear folks on tv ranting and ravin about gun laws but never ever mentioning the real bottom line !

I totally agree that someone should have come forward about this young man's mental problems. According to TV reports, his mother told friends that she was very concerned about his mental health, but as far as I've heard, she never sought professional help.

Money was not as issue with these people as they seem to be very well-to-do. The investigation is only in the preliminary stages, so much more will be divulged.

In the incident in China that people keep referring to, no child was killed. The coroner today gave the most horrific account of the way the children in CT were killed. One child was shot 11 times at close range. There will be 28 funerals there before Christmas.

[eweissenbach]

There are many issues that contributed to this atrocity. The primary one is The perpetrater of the act, who was obviously troubled and demented. What, one might ask, keeps equally troubled people in other cultures from perpetrating similar acts? Well, part of it is likely the culture itself - where violence is not nearly as celebrated or available in the media. Another factor may be that guns are not as available or tolerated in other cultures. There are many things that need to be examined as we try to grasp this issue and deal with it. But it seems to me that a PART of the issue is gun safety. Gun CONTROL is a hot button issue with many that continue to cite the 2nd amendment and echo the talking points of the NRA. It is really a gun safety issue - most people don't believe that your guns should be taken away, but that safety of all requires some common sense regulation that minimize the firearm part of the equation that comes together to create these horrific incidents. Quit trying to imply that people who favor no additional regulation on firearms are portrayed as uncaring; I don't think anyone says or even infers that. Everyone is sickened by acts such as this, but we should all be willing to have a dialogue over how they can be prevented and that discussion should logically include, but not exclusively, gun safety regulation.

[buggyone]

Amazing that one a thread about 20 schoolkids being murdered by a psycho with high capacity magazine pistols that there are people defending high capacity magazines by saying "since criminals have them, law-abiding citizens need them to protect themselves from the criminals."

Another person said he "was not taken in by crocodile tears of Pres. Obama who was acting that way just to have gun control take place." Ridiculous as well as the cheapest political shot I have ever seen.

Others were saying the 2nd Amendment guarantees citizens to have the highest firepower they can find. WRONG! It does not say anything of the sort.

Just keep reminding yourselves when making these ridiculous statements - 20 funerals for children just at Christmas time. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? Shame.

[Figmo Bohica]

Since Wisconsin recently approved the concealed gun law, I know of a whole lot of idiots out there with guns.....sitting in bars, getting drunk, with a gun in their pocket.

Just as many that are sitting around here in the Village Country Clubs. See it all the time. Next time I see one might just call the cops and teach them a lesson. Call it a wake up call to the rest of the idiots.

[shcisamax]

over 100 shots in less than two minutes. One child had 11 bullet holes. Who needs these sort of weapons to protect themselves or go hunt?

[billethkid]

[QUOTE=gerryann;595078]If this boy did not have access to a gun(guns), these children would be alive. Don't compare a gun to a knife....ridiculous.

I do not think the issue is comparing a gun to a knife. The issue is one does not need a gun to commit mass murfder.

You are entitled to your opinion whether the children would be alive if the perp did not have access to guns. You are making one very big assumption....that his desire or need or want to kill those young children was to do it with a gun.
There is absolutely no assurance he would not have carried out his task with or without a gun....just like the person did in China.

The Afghanistan rebels seem to be able to dispatch one hell of a lot of death and destruction to our troops without the use of guns.

Where there is a will there is a way.......for the nut jobs....they will not be deterred because they do not have a gun.

btk

[lovesports]

While I probably would support laws restricting the type of guns allowed for purchase...I simply know so little about guns, etc that is how I think I feel.

Same day this happened someone in China went after school children with a knife.


Zero children were killed in that knife attack in China. Zero children with the knife attack were killed.

[Bucco]

Zero children were killed in that knife attack in China. Zero children with the knife attack were killed.


Thank you....I knew that. This thread began as an offering for prayers and condolances for the town and those lost, and quickly became an attack on GUNS as if they cause violence...they do not CAUSE violence was my only point !
This is not a defense of the NRA..I own no guns...never did...have no "dog in the fight"....I just KNOW that the sheer existence of any gun will not cause violence and feel we are just glossing once again over the real problems !

[eweissenbach]

[QUOTE=gerryann;595078]If this boy did not have access to a gun(guns), these children would be alive. Don't compare a gun to a knife....ridiculous.

I do not think the issue is comparing a gun to a knife. The issue is one does not need a gun to commit mass murfder.

You are entitled to your opinion whether the children would be alive if the perp did not have access to guns. You are making one very big assumption....that his desire or need or want to kill those young children was to do it with a gun.
There is absolutely no assurance he would not have carried out his task with or without a gun....just like the person did in China.

The Afghanistan rebels seem to be able to dispatch one hell of a lot of death and destruction to our troops without the use of guns.

Where there is a will there is a way.......for the nut jobs....they will not be deterred because they do not have a gun.

btk

Well, one could concievably commit mass murder by any number of means, including, but not exclusive to, knives, ropes, hammers, baseball bats, paperclips - you name it; any of them could be used under the right circumstances. However, bombs and guns are the most common and least problematic means of mass murder, and both should be difficult for disturbed people to acquire. Do you really think that this apparently skinny nutjob could have killed 27 people without a gun or a bomb? He may have had the will, but not likely, the way. A gun is a symbol of power to many people and if they are mentally unbalanced, it apparently is too often easy to take their frustrations and demons out on others using one. We can't protect everyone and make every situation perfectly safe, but we can be open to addressing the problems that bring about situations like this, and put all the options on the table.

[ugotme]

I can not imagine a more horrible event.

Yes, I am a gun owner. Politics aside, something needs to be done - but what?

As oldcoachED has stated (in another post) safety and mental competence are (obviously) important aspects when issuing a permit to a person
As a former instructor, safety ALWAYS came first. Don't mean to put Figmo on the spot but I do believe he will agree with me.

However, does anyone REALLY think that criminals - repeat - CRIMINALS are going to obey more gun laws?

Do you really think that ALL guns could be collected and
destroyed - IMPOSSIBLE!

BTW - Almost every handgun you buy is NOT an automatic weapon - this is a misnomer. They are semi-automatic - you have to pull the trigger each time to shoot.

I confess that I do not have the answer.

[buggyone]

[QUOTE=Figmo Bohica;595186]Just as many that are sitting around here in the Village Country Clubs. See it all the time. Next time I see one might just call the cops and teach them a lesson. Call it a wake up call to the rest of the idiots. Florida CWL Instructor
NRA Certified Law Enforcement Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Certified Civilian Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Home Protection Instructor
Retired Army Military Police Investigator - 20 years, 4 months, 13 days
Retired Deputy Sheriff/Corrections Officer
IDPA Safety Officer Instructor.

With all of your credentials, I would think it would be your duty (either moral or legal) to call the cops when you see someone breaking the law like that. Isn't it illegal to be carrying a concealed weapon just sitting in the bar area of a restaurant (do not have to be drinking) in Florida?

[lovesports]

One more thing that would help would be if the news media would put more attention on the victims and heroes and less on the killers.
Most can name the location and the killers name but nobody else.
These losers know this and it is one way for them to become famous. One news channel has the killer's picture, name, and background on every 5 minutes.

[Justjac]

I can not imagine a more horrible event.

Yes, I am a gun owner. Politics aside, something needs to be done - but what?

As oldcoachED has stated (in another post) safety and mental competence are (obviously) important aspects when issuing a permit to a person
As a former instructor, safety ALWAYS came first. Don't mean to put Figmo on the spot but I do believe he will agree with me.

However, does anyone REALLY think that criminals - repeat - CRIMINALS are going to obey more gun laws?

Do you really think that ALL guns could be collected and
destroyed - IMPOSSIBLE!

BTW - Almost every handgun you buy is NOT an automatic weapon - this is a misnomer. They are semi-automatic - you have to pull the trigger each time to shoot.

I confess that I do not have the answer.
ugomet, I agree....safety and mental competence are important aspects when issuing gun permits. In California, if you have a gun, you are required to have a safe to lock up the weapon. Otherwise, you will be held responsible for any crime committed when your gun goes missing.

The sad part to all this is some solutions are so simple...start by raising the age that a person can obtain a gun permit; check the mental competence of applicants (not an easy process but we have to start somewhere); develop stricter penalties for the gun owners who do not safely store their weapons (remember that the Columbine shooter used his father's gun)...

Baby steps, I know...but if we as a nation started taking the above steps years ago, yesterday's babies may not have died.

[cologal]

Buggy, good to see you again. Yes, I have told some that were taking my class to get a concealed permit that I would not sign their certificate, because of their attitude. Not adult enough to be responsible to own let along carry a firearm. Have been told "I will sue you." My answer, sue away, we will see who wins what.

You will have to explain to me why civilians should not be allowed to own hi-cap magazines for pistol or rifles. As long as the criminals own them, law abiding citizens have the right to own them. So on that one, we will have to agree to disagree.

You can thank our criminal congress critters for allowing all the PC on the mental cases to be roaming the streets. Personal freedom and don't you dare say anything about someone's kid, they will sue you. See no parental responsibility about raising their children. Why do we let a small majority take prayer out of schools. Why do we, you name it, allow a small majority to take away anything. If you don't like it, don't do it.

My heart goes out to all those that lost love ones. I know how it feels. It is something that you never get over.

All of us need to start to do something to stop this, and make, from the top down, start taking responsibility and get this country back to the basics. Now, not, next week, but now, so that something like this does not ever happen again.

Glad to see some of the political guys back!!! If you are law enforcement then you need hi-cap etc but if you are a private citizen the only point of these weapons is to harm a lot of people in a short amount of time.

[cologal]

As a Canadian, maybe you can explain what Canadians do differently that causes such a discrepancy in the number of annual gun deaths, 52 in Canada compared to 10,728 in the US is 2011?

How do Canadians not allow the culture of violence that is running wildly in this country? Canadians see the same movies, play the same video games, use the same internet? Is it all a matter of family values being different in Canada, or more discipline in the homes?

Great post.....

[Golfingnut]

Amazing that one a thread about 20 schoolkids being murdered by a psycho with high capacity magazine pistols that there are people defending high capacity magazines by saying "since criminals have them, law-abiding citizens need them to protect themselves from the criminals."

Another person said he "was not taken in by crocodile tears of Pres. Obama who was acting that way just to have gun control take place." Ridiculous as well as the cheapest political shot I have ever seen.

Others were saying the 2nd Amendment guarantees citizens to have the highest firepower they can find. WRONG! It does not say anything of the sort.

Just keep reminding yourselves when making these ridiculous statements - 20 funerals for children just at Christmas time. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? Shame.

Thank you for a truthful post. And the comment about taken in by crocodile tears tops the list of disgusting nonfactual personal opinions.

[Golfingnut]

Just as many that are sitting around here in the Village Country Clubs. See it all the time. Next time I see one might just call the cops and teach them a lesson. Call it a wake up call to the rest of the idiots.

This is my assessment of this post that I would like to verify.
I am assuming from what you say that you CANNOT HAVE ALCOHOL while carrying your gun. I hope I am right, but do not know for sure. I do know that you can have a few beers and then return to your car (if under the .08 limit) and drive. Please clarify drinking and carrying.

[jblum315]

Quote:"since criminals have them, law-abiding citizens need them to protect themselves from the criminals."

I don't believe I have ever heard of an assault rifle being used for self defense or to defend against a home invasion. Only to massacre innocent people.

[Golfingnut]

Quote:"since criminals have them, law-abiding citizens need them to protect themselves from the criminals."

I don't believe I have ever heard of an assault rifle being used for self defense or to defend against a home invasion. Only to massacre innocent people.

Same here, I have not seen that or heard that on the news either. It seems more likely that the assault rifle or automatic high capacity fire hand guns are the desire of people that have some underlying paranoia or simply the old macho thing of mine is bigger than yours is. Please take this post as my humble opinion and nothing more. I feel it would be a fitting tribute to dedicate a law in the Newtown citizens names to ban these over the top weapons.

[Figmo Bohica]

This is my assessment of this post that I would like to verify.
I am assuming from what you say that you CANNOT HAVE ALCOHOL while carrying your gun. I hope I am right, but do not know for sure. I do know that you can have a few beers and then return to your car (if under the .08 limit) and drive. Please clarify drinking and carrying.

You can NOT drink any alcohol if you are carrying a concealed firearm. You may carry it if you are only in the restaurant portion of the building but may not carry it in the bar portion. Also you may not have any alcohol with your meal.

Where I lived before was very different from here, next to the Mexican Border in New Mexico, I carried almost all the time, either openly or concealed. New Mexico is an open carry state. Never did I imbibe while carrying. Since moving to The Villages, I hardly ever carry anymore. Might stick one in the car when going off Villages, but until things change, really have not felt the need to carry while anyplace in The Villages. I am more scared of driving that being accosted by a criminal. Do really believe that I have more of a chance of being run over by one of you Villagers that are in a hurry to get someplace, but just can't remember where or why you are in such a hurry.

The sad part about most of the people with concealed carry permits is that they obtrained them with minimum training or no training at all. They have no knowledge of the Florida laws concerning concealed carry or even how to react to a situation that would require the use of a concealed weapon, IE., the old man who fired at the two kids robbing the internet cafe in Ocala. He was correct in what he did, until he fired the last two shoots as they were running out the door. Once he did that he could have been charged with agg assault or even manslaughter. He is fortunate that the DA in Ocala is firearm friendly. Now what would have been the reaction if one of those rounds would have hit someone else? You must remember that every bullet has a lawyer attached to it. So even if you have your concealed carry permit, take some training classes, learn how, when you should take action with a deadly weapon. Just because you are licensed to carry does not give you a license to use deadly force.

Hope that this clears up your question about drinking and carrying. Now would you like to start a discussion about drinking and driving here in The Villages?

[Golfingnut]

Very good post and this is exactly why people that have the knowledge and training that you have should carry for you may very well save someones life in the future. In view of what you say above, I will self contain my belief to Control and not Ban fire arms. How about better screening of buyers and enforcement to have them secure the arms when not in their possession. If the mother was still alive, she should be charged with aiding to this crime.

[lovesports]

Being a grandpa to little ones and a total lover of little people and all people, I have cried many tears.
As details are coming out of these babies having multiple bullets shots into to their little bodies- it is just unbelievable. I look at my grandchildren and they are so happy and trusting. Can't imagine the pain of any of them ever being shot!!!
I'm afraid nothing is going to change. I'm afraid it is going to happen again.
And think of all the babies and young people/teachers/school Admin/ who will live in more fear while they are in their classrooms. This school was locked, just like all schools are now. Believe me, many schools have had angry parents or students with guns.
I'm a hunter and have had guns all my life. I'm not against guns, just assault weapons. We must not just sit back and do nothing. This was just too tragic and evil to happen again.

[Moderator]

This is just a reminder, not directed at any specific individual post above....

This discussion is about a notable current event and, for the most part, the posts have stayed on track to the event and the related issues of weapons and mental health.

Any posts that stray into partisan politics or inflammatory name calling of other TOTV members or public officials, will be edited or deleted. If the discussion strays too far, the thread will be closed.

When a controversial topic can be discussed with civility and respect, we all benefit.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Taltarzac725]

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened in Newtown, CT.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
...
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[cbg150]

It is not possible to prevent all violence, just as it is not possible to prevent automobile fatalities, still with sensible laws and education we can reduce the impact. The mother of a very troubled boy was also a "gun enthusiast". Why was she or anyone permitted to legally purchase semi-automatic weapons and massive rounds of ammunition? It is too late to prevent the death of these innocent children and brave educators in CT, but responsible laws, education and resources for the mentally ill and their families can go a long way toward minimizing future tragedies...each of us shares some responsibility here...
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people." - Martin Luther King Jr.

[JoeC1947]

I just viewed photos of some of the children that were murdered. I can't even figure out what to write next. There are no words that come to mind just overwhelming emotion. What can you say? What can you do? I just don't know how someone can point a rifle at these little children and adults and shoot them down in cold blood.

[cologal]

Quote:"since criminals have them, law-abiding citizens need them to protect themselves from the criminals."

I don't believe I have ever heard of an assault rifle being used for self defense or to defend against a home invasion. Only to massacre innocent people.

So true!!!

[janmcn]

It is not possible to prevent all violence, just as it is not possible to prevent automobile fatalities, still with sensible laws and education we can reduce the impact. The mother of a very troubled boy was also a "gun enthusiast". Why was she or anyone permitted to legally purchase semi-automatic weapons and massive rounds of ammunition? It is too late to prevent the death of these innocent children and brave educators in CT, but responsible laws, education and resources for the mentally ill and their families can go a long way toward minimizing future tragedies...each of us shares some responsibility here...
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Why did this "gun enthusiast", and presumably responible gun owner who knew her son had mental health issues, not keep her guns safely locked up? It's being reported on TV today that the shooter had issues dating back to elementary school, when he attended the school where the shooting took place.

If she had kept her guns in a safe locked place, she might be alive today along with the 27 other people killed. I guess we will never know.

[cologal]

over 100 shots in less than two minutes. One child had 11 bullet holes. Who needs these sort of weapons to protect themselves or go hunt?

These are the types of questions that can turn around the national debate!!!

I support a ban of auto, semi auto weapons, high cap clips and body armor.

[2BNTV]

I have stayed out of the gun control discussion, largely because for some inexplicable reason it becomes highly politicized. Perhaps it is time for all Americans, including the NRA, to agree that assault weapons, oversized cartridge clips and the gun show exeption to gun registration need to be outlawed. Owning guns for personal safety, and/or hunting is a constitutional right that I agree with. However, I see NO reason that any law abiding citizen needs an assault or automatic weapon, or an oversized cartridge clip. We settled long ago on the prudence of requiring registration for those purchasing weapons, so why does the gunshow exemption persist? I own guns and come from a long line of hunters, yet I see no reason that anyone supports the issues I have outlined. The NRA is simply afraid that any control will ultimately lead to complete control of firearms, and that is simply not the will of the majority of the people in my opinion. We need to keep the right to bear "reasonable" arms that make sense for civilians, but not weapons that should only be in the hands of soldiers and law enforcement officers. I expect to hear opposition to this opinion - so be it.

:agree:

It seems now is the perfect time to address this issue. The NRA will probably deny that guns is not the issue but how can one not say that access to these type of weapons should not be avilable to the general public. They should be in the hands of the military and other reponsible law enforcement agencies.

I see no reason why a sane person would need a gun that contains many bullets fired at a rapid rate to defend themselves. To think otherwise is pure folly.

I have been reading many articles on this tradgedy and I am still sick over how many babies were slaughtered. Six and seven year olds never to grow up and have children of their own. They had a right to expect a life with so much promise. :pray:

[Taltarzac725]

:agree:

It seems now is the perfect time to address this issue. The NRA will probably deny that guns is not the issue but how can one not say that access to these type of weapons should not be avilable to the general public. They should be in the hands of the military and other reponsible law enforcement agencies.

I see no reason why a sane person would need a gun that contains many bullets fired at a rapid rate to defend themselves. To think otherwise is pure folly.

I have been reading many articles on this tradgedy and I am still sick over how many babies were slaughtered. Six and seven year olds never to grow up and have children of their own. They had a right to expect a life with so much promise. :pray:

I agree that there is no reason someone should need such weaponry unless they are in a war zone. The US has not been near a war zone since probably WWII at times.

I have been reading a book The Zookeeper's Wife on the experience of Poles in Warsaw during the WWII and the occupation of the Nazis. The people of Warsaw had a terrible set of experiences. They went through the invasion by what almost anyone admit was an evil totalitarian regime. Maybe, there is a possibility that some foreign power will invade the US at some date or some radical military group will take over a territory or some section of a state like with Idaho's various militias.

Maybe the NRA should set up some kind of cache of arms in very secure locations accessible to very few people to meet the possibilities envisioned by the Founding Fathers of some kind of invasion. Foreign and Native American incursions were still a very real threat in the 1780s. Then the politicians could come down very hard on getting semi-automatic and automatic weapons out of the hands of US citizens and criminals.

[JoeC1947]

:agree:

It seems now is the perfect time to address this issue. The NRA will probably deny that guns is not the issue but how can one not say that access to these type of weapons should not be avilable to the general public. They should be in the hands of the military and other reponsible law enforcement agencies.

I see no reason why a sane person would need a gun that contains many bullets fired at a rapid rate to defend themselves. To think otherwise is pure folly.

I have been reading many articles on this tradgedy and I am still sick over how many babies were slaughtered. Six and seven year olds never to grow up and have children of their own. They had a right to expect a life with so much promise. :pray:

Just as much damage could have been afflicted with a pump action shotgun or just handguns. In this case the gunman was not challenged so reloading was not so much an issue. I don't know why anyone would "need" an assault rifle but the bottom line is it's not guns that are the problem here..

[Figmo Bohica]

Maybe, there is a possibility that some foreign power will invade the US at some date or some radical military group will take over a territory or some section of a state like with Idaho's various militias.

You might want to apologize to the Good Citizens of Idaho, List of U.S. Militia Groups « DarkGovernment (http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups/) They are not even listed on this website.

[Taltarzac725]

You might want to apologize to the Good Citizens of Idaho, List of U.S. Militia Groups « DarkGovernment (http://www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups/) They are not even listed on this website.

'Teeth of the Constitution:' Light Foot Militia rises in Idaho's backcountry - PhotoBlog (http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/02/13085293-teeth-of-the-constitution-light-foot-militia-rises-in-idahos-backcountry?lite)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/active-patriot-groups-in-the-united-s

[Golfingnut]

'Teeth of the Constitution:' Light Foot Militia rises in Idaho's backcountry - PhotoBlog (http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/02/13085293-teeth-of-the-constitution-light-foot-militia-rises-in-idahos-backcountry?lite)

Militia movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_movement)

I hope not to offend anyone on here, but Timothy McVeigh was involved in a militia group, I find them all terrorists and enemies of the United States Of America. We have democratic ways to make our government work for us, and if you feel there would ever be a reason to rise up against our government, please get help.

[eweissenbach]

I hope not to offend anyone on here, but Timothy McVey was involved in a militia group, I find them all terrorists and enemies of the United States Of America. We have democratic ways to make our government work for us, and if you feel there would ever be a reason to rise up against our government, please get help.

Yep - well said Lou!

[billethkid]

to refer to the killers mother as a "responsible gun owner" is simply just not true.
As evidenced by the tragedy in CT.

It is an affront and insult to the real, responsible gun owners.

When will the conversations shift from the killer to the victims and their families and their plight in the near future? Must not be controversial or abrasive enough as exemplified by the main streams media placing the priority coverage on the killer and how he did it and speculating beyond their intellectual capacity.

btk

[eweissenbach]

to refer to the killers mother as a "responsible gun owner" is simply just not true.
As evidenced by the tragedy in CT.

It is an affront and insult to the real, responsible gun owners.

When will the conversations shift from the killer to the victims and their families and their plight in the near future? Must not be controversial or abrasive enough as exemplified by the main streams media placing the priority coverage on the killer and how he did it and speculating beyond their intellectual capacity.

btk

Okay Billie, I usually agree with most you say, but it seems to me YOU may be speculating beyond your intellectual capacity. How do we know at this time, that the mother was not a responsible gun owner? IMO, owning a bushmaster type weapon is irresponsible, but it is apparently not illegal, and she had apparently acquired the appropriate permits. How do we know he didn't kill her in order to get access to the guns so he could carry out his killing fantasies. There is a lot we don't know, and there has already been a lot of misinformation, so I will wait until all the investigation has been done to come to conclusions such as this, and even then we will not know eveything.

[cologal]

You can thank our criminal congress critters for allowing all the PC on the mental cases to be roaming the streets.

No one is discussing the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Most of these mass shooting are brought to us by "mentally ill" young men whose own parents are afraid of. In this case, it has been reported, the gunmen's mother was angry with the school system for not helping her with this child. Many years ago the mental health system was dismantled, if the remember correctly, somewhat based on personal freedoms....but was supposed to be replaced with community health care centers. That system, i believe, was not funded leaving many mentally ill wandering the streets homeless. Add to this the number of American families without healthcare or without mental healthcare covered by their insurance policy.

We need to look at this issue as well during this debate.

Hopefully I have stated this in a completely non political way!

[2BNTV]

Just as much damage could have been afflicted with a pump action shotgun or just handguns. In this case the gunman was not challenged so reloading was not so much an issue. I don't know why anyone would "need" an assault rifle but the bottom line is it's not guns that are the problem here..

I agree in that is not a gun problem but "access to guns is the problem" in the hands of evil or mentally unstable person.

I agree one does not need an assault rifle to defend themselves.

[cologal]

to refer to the killers mother as a "responsible gun owner" is simply just not true.
As evidenced by the tragedy in CT.

It is an affront and insult to the real, responsible gun owners.

When will the conversations shift from the killer to the victims and their families and their plight in the near future? Must not be controversial or abrasive enough as exemplified by the main streams media placing the priority coverage on the killer and how he did it and speculating beyond their intellectual capacity.

btk
I ask this with respect ....

If she had the permits, complying with local laws why now is not a responsible gun owner? How about the gun collector in Jacksonville?

Do they go from responsible to non reponsible because their gun was used in a non responsible way? I have never understood this point....these children were killed with legally obtained weapons.

[janmcn]

to refer to the killers mother as a "responsible gun owner" is simply just not true.
As evidenced by the tragedy in CT.

It is an affront and insult to the real, responsible gun owners.

When will the conversations shift from the killer to the victims and their families and their plight in the near future? Must not be controversial or abrasive enough as exemplified by the main streams media placing the priority coverage on the killer and how he did it and speculating beyond their intellectual capacity.

btk

If you go back and read my previous post, you will notice I said "presumably responsible gun owner" based on reports that the mother had complied with all the permitting processes in CT, which has some of the most stringent gun laws in the country.

Obviously, she wasn't that "responsible" or her guns would have been in a safe, secure, locked place where her son couldn't get them.

This case is in the very early stages of investigation and much more will be divulged with time.

[Justjac]

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened in Newtown, CT.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
...
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
You certainly got this one right! I watched this morning as the media went on and on about how if any mentally deranged person wanted to end it all and really hurt people, all he has to do was head to a school filled with children.

Really? We need the media to "report" this?

Whatever happened to the days when the news media's job was simply "just to REPORT," be objective and withhold their own personal opinions and comments. Oh yeah, and check their facts BEFORE reporting the news.

This country needs to start addressing what appears on the news...

[Taltarzac725]

You certainly got this one right! I watched this morning as the media went on and on about how if any mentally deranged person wanted to end it all and really hurt people, all he has to do was head to a school filled with children.

Really? We need the media to "report" this?

Whatever happened to the days when the news media's job was simply "just to REPORT," be objective and withhold their own personal opinions and comments. Oh yeah, and check their facts BEFORE reporting the news.

This country needs to start addressing what appears on the news...

That actually was Morgan Freeman who wrote this. Got it off of a Facebook post that someone put on my Facebook account. Big time actors and actresses do say quite bright things every once in a while.

[CarolSells]

You certainly got this one right! I watched this morning as the media went on and on about how if any mentally deranged person wanted to end it all and really hurt people, all he has to do was head to a school filled with children.

Really? We need the media to "report" this?

Whatever happened to the days when the news media's job was simply "just to REPORT," be objective and withhold their own personal opinions and comments. Oh yeah, and check their facts BEFORE reporting the news.

This country needs to start addressing what appears on the news...

I totally agree! They don't seem to care who is damaged by their irresponsible rush to 'just get the story aired'! I think it's appalling that, as a for instance, they immediately reported that Adam Lanza's brother Ryan was the shooter! They covered their butts later by saying that maybe Adam had his brother's ID. Ryan lost his mother and brother plus they have permanently linked his name to the shooting. They don't give a rat's behind. Same with his mother; everything they are spewing in regards to her guns and how they were kept is speculation!

[AJ32162]

I hope not to offend anyone on here, but Timothy McVeigh was involved in a militia group, I find them all terrorists and enemies of the United States Of America. We have democratic ways to make our government work for us, and if you feel there would ever be a reason to rise up against our government, please get help. I guess the Loyalists during the Revolutionary War must have felt the same way.

[eweissenbach]

That actually was Morgan Freeman who wrote this. Got it off of a Facebook post that someone put on my Facebook account. Big time actors and actresses do say quite bright things every once in a while.

What he said, and you reported are very true. However, (and isn't there always a however?) I try to think of what the solution might be and I can't think of one. First: what is the mainstream media? I guess I would define it as any media outlet that is on my direct TV, or cable menu. A few years ago I would have said the major networks, and maybe CNN, but now virtually everyone has access to dozens or even hundreds of news outlets on TV. So let's say they all conspired to never mention the name of, or any background about, any mass killer. Okay, I know, this would never be likely to happen, but just say it did, kind of like the FCC USED to ban profanity and sexual innuendo. Back when I grew up, in the fifties, TV output was tightly controlled and we all thought Lucille Ball, Harriett Nelson, Donna Reed, and Barbara Billingsley were the typical matrons of typical families. Actually they weren't then, and are even less so now. Now, even if the "mainstream media" were equally controlled, you have the internet. There is simply no way that I can see, of controlling content on the internet. Today, bloggers would get hold of information, or bits of information, and they would satiate the desires of all the people that wanted to know, and if you think the mainstream media lacks journalistic ethics, get a load of some of the nitwits that are out there in the wild wild world of the web. The bloggers would have no restraint from printing rumors that were not fact, and wild speculation. At least the mainstream media GENERALLY shows restraint, and try to confirm rumors or information before making it public. In this age, I just cannot fathom what it would take to truly keep information about a mass killer away from a public, many of whom would move heaven and earth to get all the juicy details. If someone has a realistic answer I am all eyeballs.

[graciegirl]

What he said, and you reported are very true. However, (and isn't there always a however?) I try to think of what the solution might be and I can't think of one. First: what is the mainstream media? I guess I would define it as any media outlet that is on my direct TV, or cable menu. A few years ago I would have said the major networks, and maybe CNN, but now virtually everyone has access to dozens or even hundreds of news outlets on TV. So let's say they all conspired to never mention the name of, or any background about, any mass killer. Okay, I know, this would never be likely to happen, but just say it did, kind of like the FCC USED to ban profanity and sexual innuendo. Back when I grew up, in the fifties, TV output was tightly controlled and we all thought Lucille Ball, Harriett Nelson, Donna Reed, and Barbara Billingsley were the typical matrons of typical families. Actually they weren't then, and are even less so now. Now, even if the "mainstream media" were equally controlled, you have the internet. There is simply no way that I can see, of controlling content on the internet. Today, bloggers would get hold of information, or bits of information, and they would satiate the desires of all the people that wanted to know, and if you think the mainstream media lacks journalistic ethics, get a load of some of the nitwits that are out there in the wild wild world of the web. The bloggers would have no restraint from printing rumors that were not fact, and wild speculation. At least the mainstream media GENERALLY shows restraint, and try to confirm rumors or information before making it public. In this age, I just cannot fathom what it would take to truly keep information about a mass killer away from a public, many of whom would move heaven and earth to get all the juicy details. If someone has a realistic answer I am all eyeballs.

That is true. We are just shooting the messenger. The networks are a business and they lose sponsors if they don't keep the dial tuned on their station.

We are supposed to try to evaluate things ourselves and make decisions based on the experiences we have had in our life and from teachings from trusted people in our life, mostly our family.

If a person lives in a delusional world distorted by mental illness or substance abuse, then not much can keep these kinds of things from happening.

The Baltimore Catechism used to teach that by the age of seven we had the use of reason and could chose between right and wrong.

It has grown very difficult to sort out as of late to be sure.

We all just have to do the best we can.

[Taltarzac725]

What he said, and you reported are very true. However, (and isn't there always a however?) I try to think of what the solution might be and I can't think of one. First: what is the mainstream media? I guess I would define it as any media outlet that is on my direct TV, or cable menu. A few years ago I would have said the major networks, and maybe CNN, but now virtually everyone has access to dozens or even hundreds of news outlets on TV. So let's say they all conspired to never mention the name of, or any background about, any mass killer. Okay, I know, this would never be likely to happen, but just say it did, kind of like the FCC USED to ban profanity and sexual innuendo. Back when I grew up, in the fifties, TV output was tightly controlled and we all thought Lucille Ball, Harriett Nelson, Donna Reed, and Barbara Billingsley were the typical matrons of typical families. Actually they weren't then, and are even less so now. Now, even if the "mainstream media" were equally controlled, you have the internet. There is simply no way that I can see, of controlling content on the internet. Today, bloggers would get hold of information, or bits of information, and they would satiate the desires of all the people that wanted to know, and if you think the mainstream media lacks journalistic ethics, get a load of some of the nitwits that are out there in the wild wild world of the web. The bloggers would have no restraint from printing rumors that were not fact, and wild speculation. At least the mainstream media GENERALLY shows restraint, and try to confirm rumors or information before making it public. In this age, I just cannot fathom what it would take to truly keep information about a mass killer away from a public, many of whom would move heaven and earth to get all the juicy details. If someone has a realistic answer I am all eyeballs.

That's true that information has a way of getting out even in places with as tight a control on the press as China.

What bugs me is the mindset of making this a competition among the deranged as to who can put up the highest body count. They almost talk about it as who won the latest World Series. Along the same line, I have heard of very uncouth business people who sell serial killer trading cards.

Morgan Freeman seemed to be condemning the need to sensationalize the CT school shootings for ratings.

[ilovetv]

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened in Newtown, CT.

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.
...
It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

While I agree with most of what Morgan Freeman said in this quote above, I think it would be even more "brilliant" to look in the mirror as a Hollywood actor and Screen Actors' Guild member, and look at how HOLLYWOOD glamorizes and sensationalizes cold-blooded, grizzly killing/torture of people on the movie screen! Two movies that come to mind are the movies "Seven" with Brad Pitt and Gwenyth Paltrow, and Pulp Fiction. Grizzly and disgusting!!!!

Hollywood feeds and feeds ON blood-bath violence......and perversion. They are just as much to blame as the "news" networks!!

[Golfingnut]

I guess the Loyalists during the Revolutionary War must have felt the same way.

They were not loyalists, they were traders to the English mainland that put them in the Americas. We are all benefiting from what they did, but they were no less than terrorists and traders to their own country. Our own laws would have them executed if they did to us what they did to England. So please call them lots of things, but not loyalists.

:throwtomatoes:

[Taltarzac725]

While I agree with most of what Morgan Freeman said in this quote above, I think it would be even more "brilliant" to look in the mirror as a Hollywood actor and Screen Actors' Guild member, and look at how HOLLYWOOD glamorizes and sensationalizes cold-blooded, grizzly killing/torture of people on the movie screen! Two movies that come to mind are the movies "Seven" with Brad Pitt and Gwenyth Paltrow, and Pulp Fiction. Grizzly and disgusting!!!!

Hollywood feeds and feeds ON blood-bath violence......and perversion. They are just as much to blame as the "news" networks!!

There are some movies that glamorize violence. Others show the reality and the pain that it causes. I personally did not like Seven but Pulp Fiction seemed more like a parody of action movies.

[AJ32162]

I guess the Loyalists during the Revolutionary War must have felt the same way.

They were not loyalists, they were traders to the English mainland that put them in the Americas. We are all benefiting from what they did, but they were no less than terrorists and traders to their own country. Our own laws would have them executed if they did to us what they did to England. So please call them lots of things, but not loyalists.

:throwtomatoes:
Your rambling post makes no sense. You might want to google to the term "Loyalist" and review your Revolutionary War history, I think you are a bit confused. I never called anyone a Loyalist, I only stated that your original post seems to convey an attituded similar to that shared by many Loyalists (those loyal to England) during the Revolutionary War.

[ilovetv]

While I agree with most of what Morgan Freeman said in this quote above, I think it would be even more "brilliant" to look in the mirror as a Hollywood actor and Screen Actors' Guild member, and look at how HOLLYWOOD glamorizes and sensationalizes cold-blooded, grizzly killing/torture of people on the movie screen! Two movies that come to mind are the movies "Seven" with Brad Pitt and Gwenyth Paltrow, and Pulp Fiction. Grizzly and disgusting!!!!

Hollywood feeds and feeds ON blood-bath violence......and perversion. They are just as much to blame as the "news" networks!!

"Tarantino tires of defending ultra-violent films after Sandy Hook massacre"....

'Give me a break' - Tarantino tires of defending ultra-violent films after Sandy Hook massacre - News - Films - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/give-me-a-break--tarantino-tires-of-defending-ultraviolent-films-after-sandy-hook-massacre-8422467.html)

[Taltarzac725]

"Tarantino tires of defending ultra-violent films after Sandy Hook massacre"....

'Give me a break' - Tarantino tires of defending ultra-violent films after Sandy Hook massacre - News - Films - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/give-me-a-break--tarantino-tires-of-defending-ultraviolent-films-after-sandy-hook-massacre-8422467.html)

I really do not buy this argument. Some of the world's best read and loved books are extremely violent and the stories told in them would make Tarantino's movies look tame if they were made into movies with the same level of gore. Actually, some of them have been made into movies. The Iliad's Troy. The Bible's The Last Temptation of Christ. The Iliad as well as The Odyssey are full of murders as is The Bible.

There is probably a good argument against some films that greatly overlook the cause and effect of violence and its lifetime's influence on the people who go through it. There are many exellent movies that tell this in very realistic terms. Unforgiven for instance is great in how in describes the battle between good and evil (and the shades of both) and the very real scars created in the bodies and souls of those in that struggle. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1041911-unforgiven/#

[billethkid]

in my opinion it is not the occassional read that most of today's youth (3-25) wouldn't pick up or have the slightest interest in the first place.

The problem is the steady, complete immersion and exposure of our youth to violent games far too many of which are based on mass killing, using automatic weapons....movies that show the same as well as beheading, dismembering, torture, you name it.....television that is not far behind movies in the violence and manner of presentation.....the language and attitude that has eveolved from these exposures as well as the permissive attitudes of younger parents.....

Violence has been an accepted mode of entertainment for the last 20 (or more years). If exposure is a learning methodology why do some think our youth can be surrounded day in and day out with violence as the underlying theme, learning how to kill/murder, showing no remorse to only go on to the next killing.....then why is it a surprise when members of that same youth turn around and do it in real life?

It is not a surprise. And why doesn't anything get done about it? Because prior generations that also grew up in that same environment are now the parents, managers at work, politicians, etc. They will not take steps to eliminate what they too have become accustomed to and have an investment in it to be continued.

How about an example.....you have heard of MADD...mothers against drunk driving....credited with one of the most successful campaigns against drinking.....a situation that would and could kill any of us.

Have you ever heard of any similar group against cell phone use or texting while driving?? Of course not. Why? Because the mothers did not have an investment or participation in drunkenness. Cell phones are a very different story. Every mother of today is invested in and participation in using a cell phone or texting while driving. And they sure as hell are not going to promote taking away that which they themselves seem to need to have.......even though the statistics on accidents and deaths due to cell phone use and texting are staggering.

For the very same logic, the ongoing violence exposure and permissive toleration of it in our society, poisoning our youth is too important to them personally, hence nothing gets done. Just imagine what the next couple of generations will spawn as this violence exposure continues as an ACCEPTED element of society.

There is no mystery to the number of acts of violence that take place every single day. And those who waffle around trying to blame it on guns or mental health are looking right past the real reason. Because they too are hooked on what they grew up with.

Gun control will have zero effect....when the day to day "training" of death, murder and kill continues to flood their daily lives.

btk

[buggyone]

"Gun control will have zero effect....when the day to day "training" of death, murder and kill continues to flood their daily lives."

The above posting is incorrect. IF the assault type weapons such as AK-47's, AR-15's, streetsweeper shotguns, high capacity magazines, etc. were NOT AVAILABLE for civilian purchase, the limited gun control MIGHT work to some degree. Less damage can be done with a 5 shot shotgun than with a 60 shot drum magazine shotgun and less damage can be done with a 7 round magazine on a rifle than a pair of 60 round banana magazines taped back to back.

The violent movies and video games are to blame to some degree but more so is the easy access to the high capacity weapons.

[billethkid]

"Gun control will have zero effect....when the day to day "training" of death, murder and kill continues to flood their daily lives."

The above posting is incorrect. IF the assault type weapons such as AK-47's, AR-15's, streetsweeper shotguns, high capacity magazines, etc. were NOT AVAILABLE for civilian purchase, the limited gun control MIGHT work to some degree. Less damage can be done with a 5 shot shotgun than with a 60 shot drum magazine shotgun and less damage can be done with a 7 round magazine on a rifle than a pair of 60 round banana magazines taped back to back.

The violent movies and video games are to blame to some degree but more so is the easy access to the high capacity weapons.

I was attempting to be at the general level. On your specific, OK ban all the what ever makes y'all happy...assault, semi automatic, high capacty, etc, etc, etc. accomplish them all or at least what ever it is that will make gun control advocates happy. And let's assume y'all get all ye seek.

My point was the violence exposure will be the same. The results will be the same.....when we allow training (my preferred wording) of youth in the manner of and lack of emotion of killing, murdering, dis-membering, etc......all the changed gun laws are not going to affect the incidence of tragedy. What will be accomplished is removal of one means of doing the deed.

We are talking about a very small percent of even the "trained" to accept killing crowd....the facts of the matter is the more that are trained that small percent = many more incidents.

Call it what you will....we are letting the behavior of our youth be arranged and conditioned to accept the presentation of murdering, killing and mayhem. Repetitive exposure results in learned conditioning.
One only needs to look at the games, the television and movie content, the language, the lack of respect and for too many, no fear of the law.

Guns are only a piece of a very complex puzzle of life and in my opinion too many try to make the puzzle about guns!!!

btk

[janmcn]

I was attempting to be at the general level. On your specific, OK ban all the what ever makes y'all happy...assault, semi automatic, high capacty, etc, etc, etc. accomplish them all or at least what ever it is that will make gun control advocates happy. And let's assume y'all get all ye seek.

My point was the violence exposure will be the same. The results will be the same.....when we allow training (my preferred wording) of youth in the manner of and lack of emotion of killing, murdering, dis-membering, etc......all the changed gun laws are not going to affect the incidence of tragedy. What will be accomplished is removal of one means of doing the deed.

We are talking about a very small percent of even the "trained" to accept killing crowd....the facts of the matter is the more that are trained that small percent = many more incidents.

Call it what you will....we are letting the behavior of our youth be arranged and conditioned to accept the presentation of murdering, killing and mayhem. Repetitive exposure results in learned conditioning.
One only needs to look at the games, the television and movie content, the language, the lack of respect and for too many, no fear of the law.

Guns are only a piece of a very complex puzzle of life and in my opinion too many try to make the puzzle about guns!!!

btk

How do you explain that youth around the world watch the same movies, play the same video games, watch much the same television shows, and get on the same internet as the youth in the US, yet there is such a disparity in the number of homicides per year. It can't be all attributed to lack of respect or no fear of the law.


Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728 Source NRA


I read a quote recently that said Detroit had 300 some gun deaths in one year, while one mile down the road in (I believe it was London) Ontario Canada there were zero gun deaths that year. Presumably, being so close, these two cities are in the same TV markets and watch the same movies.


Fortunately, the brightest minds in Washington are working on addressing these problems. We've done nothing for too long, now's the time to act.

[eweissenbach]

I was attempting to be at the general level. On your specific, OK ban all the what ever makes y'all happy...assault, semi automatic, high capacty, etc, etc, etc. accomplish them all or at least what ever it is that will make gun control advocates happy. And let's assume y'all get all ye seek.

My point was the violence exposure will be the same. The results will be the same.....when we allow training (my preferred wording) of youth in the manner of and lack of emotion of killing, murdering, dis-membering, etc......all the changed gun laws are not going to affect the incidence of tragedy. What will be accomplished is removal of one means of doing the deed.

We are talking about a very small percent of even the "trained" to accept killing crowd....the facts of the matter is the more that are trained that small percent = many more incidents.

Call it what you will....we are letting the behavior of our youth be arranged and conditioned to accept the presentation of murdering, killing and mayhem. Repetitive exposure results in learned conditioning.
One only needs to look at the games, the television and movie content, the language, the lack of respect and for too many, no fear of the law.

Guns are only a piece of a very complex puzzle of life and in my opinion too many try to make the puzzle about guns!!!

btk

People that argue against any manner of gun control usually make the argument - Basically, you gun control nuts are too simplistic and you are missing the point. Often followed by some form of guns don't kill people, people kill people. I am in favor of some gun controls, but I, like most people, don't think for a minute that it would forever solve the problem. It might not even lessen the problem, but why not try it? Who not wearing a uniform, needs automatic weapons and armour piercing ammunition for example? Of course the basic problem is with the societal infuences, and recognition and treatment of mental illness. However, to not include some control of weapons and bomb making material is to ignore an inarguable part of the problem.

[tucson]

[QUOTE=janmcn;596398]How do you explain that youth around the world watch the same movies, play the same video games, watch much the same television shows, and get on the same internet as the youth in the US, yet there is such a disparity in the number of homicides per year. It can't be all attributed to lack of respect or no fear of the law.


Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728 Source NRA


I read a quote recently that said Detroit had 300 some gun deaths in one year, while one mile down the road in (I believe it was London) Ontario Canada there were zero gun deaths that year. Presumably, being so close, these two cities are in the same TV markets and watch the same movies.


Fortunately, the brightest minds in Washington are working on addressing these problems. We've done nothing for too long, now's the time to act.[/QUOTE I think everyone should seriously look into drugs playing a major factor in these cases. Legal and/or illegal partnered w/violent video games causes these kind of violent acts.

[2BNTV]

This a complex problem that needs some discussion at the governmental level in regards to banning assault weapons to the general public. .

We can make out voices heard and hopefully, some solutions will be implemented. I think guns are a part of our culture and owning a gun should be held by responsible people only. I am against the easy access to assault weapons in the hands of the general public. One child had 11 bullets in them.

I see no reason why a person needs this level of protection. Even hunters don't need a weapon like this to kill an animal.

Will banning assault weapons solve this problem? The answer is no but we can limit the potential for more incidents. IMHO

Access to mental health, curbing violence in the media, movies, video games can help.only. Children should be exposed to learning tools type games and not a toy gun. I have never bought my son a toy gun. Is this simplistic, Possibly yes, but we owe to our children and grandchildren to seek better options.

Off soapbox. :smiley:

[tucson]

Someone should do some research on when video games started to be popular w/young boys and see how many mass shootings since then. I heard today that since 1974 there's been 37 in our country.