pretty sad

[scarecrow1]

I think its pretty sad that you can only put three slugs in a shotgun when your hunting deer but you can put a hundred round it a semi-automatic gun for protection. I think the deer are safer than we are.:sad:

[Mudder]

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Golfingnut]

It appears that the folks with unstable minds as seen in this recent horrific shooting and the minds of criminals who are also unstable have the interest in assault rifles and automatic pistols with mega fire clips. I think you will find that normal hunters and sportsmen do not have the desire for these destructive fire arms. When I hunt, I can kill any thing I am after with a 12 gauge shot gun or one of two rifles, a 30-30 or a 22. There are exceptions, but if you feel the need for these automatic killing machines, I would hope you take it upon yourself to have an outside evaluation to verify your mental capabilities.

I for one do not want to take guns out of the hands of responsible hunters or target sportsman, but something has to be done and fast about the weapons designed and used to kill mass amounts of human beings. We should all be ashamed of a government that continues to allow these mass executions.

[justjim]

In 2009, 31,347 Americans were killed by guns. In the UK 39. You can google "gun control" and get all kinds of similar data. All assault weapons are illegal in the UK. The assault weapons Ban Act of 1994 was not renewed in 2004---thanks largely to the NRA. The NRA sort of reminds me of some Labor Unions that some place in time have lost their way and no longer seem to have a common sense approach to today's issues and problems. Hopefully, some common sense gun control will come out of the Newtown massive murder of our innocent children.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I don't believe it's a gun issue. I believe it's a mental health issue. I think the changes that need to be made have to do with getting and paying for mental health care, not changing the number of rounds in a clip. A mentally stable person would not shoot up a school, mall, church or workplace even if they had access to 500 round clips

[lovesports]

Why does anyone need an assault weapon.??

[Cantwaittoarrive]

In 2009, 31,347 Americans were killed by guns. In the UK 39. You can google "gun control" and get all kinds of similar data. All assault weapons are illegal in the UK. The assault weapons Ban Act of 1994 was not renewed in 2004---thanks largely to the NRA. The NRA sort of reminds me of some Labor Unions that some place in time have lost their way and no longer seem to have a common sense approach to today's issues and problems. Hopefully, some common sense gun control will come out of the Newtown massive murder of our innocent children.

Many more people were also killed by drunk drivers in the USA than were killed in the UK lets take away cars, golf carts, motorcycles and then we won't have to worry about being killed by drunk drivers either. Actually more people in the USA were killed by cars than guns, so that proves we need to take away cars

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Why does anyone need an assault weapon.??

It's a right to bear arms afford by the US constitution and sealed by the blood of many citizens. It doesn't matter if some don't see the need, that's why it's a right

[Wi11iam]

Why does anyone need an assault weapon.??

What a horrific tradgedy...i agree with you....Why would any civilian person need an automatic weapon.
You may never be able to control all the people who are not stable and should not own or have the ability to own a weapon, but you sure could lower the casualties by not allowing these high volume weapons to be in the hands of the civilian population.
Common sense needs to prevail. If you cannot eliminate the problem then at least attempt to control it.
Just my simple mind working as logically as possible.
Very very very sad..:cry:

[Figmo Bohica]

In 2009, 31,347 Americans were killed by guns. In the UK 39. You can google "gun control" and get all kinds of similar data. All assault weapons are illegal in the UK. The assault weapons Ban Act of 1994 was not renewed in 2004---thanks largely to the NRA. The NRA sort of reminds me of some Labor Unions that some place in time have lost their way and no longer seem to have a common sense approach to today's issues and problems. Hopefully, some common sense gun control will come out of the Newtown massive murder of our innocent children.

If you carefully read the "Assualt Weapons Ban Act of 1994" you will find that it was a feel good law. The only thing it did was "BAN" some items from the firearms it covered. Read it, it is and still is a joke.

[AJ32162]

Why does anyone need an assault weapon.?? I guess it's because of an uncertain future. Ask those living in Rwanda, Egypt, Libya, and Syria to name a few, the same question and you might get a better answer.

[lovesports]

I guess it's because of an uncertain future. Ask those living in Rwanda, Egypt, Libya, and Syria to name a few, the same question and you might get a better answer.

Been to Rwanda(see gorillas) Egypt (to see Pyramids) and both countries were surprising safe. The media here had us scared but it turned out the people were friendly and we felt safe. Rwanda is especially in a new building mode.

The topic of guns never came up.

But I'm sticking by my position and stepping away from this debate. This debate is nation wide and can go on forever.

[eweissenbach]

It's a right to bear arms afford by the US constitution and sealed by the blood of many citizens. It doesn't matter if some don't see the need, that's why it's a right

There were no assault weapons available when the constitutions was written, and I doubt if any of the framers forsaw them coming. Another ridiculous argument promoted by the NRA.

[Figmo Bohica]

There were no assault weapons available when the constitutions was written, and I doubt if any of the framers forsaw them coming. Another ridiculous argument promoted by the NRA.

Yes there were assualt weapons available when the constitution was written. They were the most advanced for the time. Same as there were no computers, airplanes, cars, phone, etc., we could go on forever, but it seems that the US Constitution covers all our rights pretty good.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

There were no assault weapons available when the constitutions was written, and I doubt if any of the framers forsaw them coming. Another ridiculous argument promoted by the NRA.

I usually agree with most everything you say but to say there were no assault weapons is not true and would it also be ridiculous to say since TV's and radio's and computers weren't available our right to free speach isn't covered when using these forms of communicating?

[Golfingnut]

Florida CWL Instructor
NRA Certified Law Enforcement Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Certified Civilian Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Home Protection Instructor
Retired Army Military Police Investigator - 20 years, 4 months, 13 days
Retired Deputy Sheriff/Corrections Officer
IDPA Safety Officer Instructor
All skill is in vain when an Angel weewees in the flintlock of your musket.

I want people like the above to own and carry weapons, but if you do not have at least some of those type qualifications, I don't want you to own and carry a BB gun. AGAIN: Don't ban guns, but cut out the assault rifles and automatic pistols and all guns from the millions that are un-educated, un-qualified and un-fit mentally to own and carry them.

[Bogie Shooter]

Florida CWL Instructor
NRA Certified Law Enforcement Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Certified Civilian Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Home Protection Instructor
Retired Army Military Police Investigator - 20 years, 4 months, 13 days
Retired Deputy Sheriff/Corrections Officer
IDPA Safety Officer Instructor
All skill is in vain when an Angel weewees in the flintlock of your musket.

I want people like the above to own and carry weapons, but if you do not have at least some of those type qualifications, I don't want you to own and carry a BB gun. AGAIN: Don't ban guns, but cut out the assault rifles and automatic pistols and all guns from the millions that are un-educated, un-qualified and un-fit mentally to own and carry them.

Now that make sense!

[Golfingnut]

I usually agree with most everything you say but to say there were no assault weapons is not true and would it also be ridiculous to say since TV's and radio's and computers weren't available our right to free speach isn't covered when using these forms of communicating?

Great point, but still just a play on words. The Gatling gun was designed in 1861, and even if it was available in 1776, it would have been difficult to carry it into an elementary school classroom. I truly believe that the framers of the constitution never intended for the average citizen to OUT ARM the police or military. If so, should we make nuclear bombs available to the average Joe on the street.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Florida CWL Instructor
NRA Certified Law Enforcement Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Certified Civilian Handgun/Shotgun Instructor
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Home Protection Instructor
Retired Army Military Police Investigator - 20 years, 4 months, 13 days
Retired Deputy Sheriff/Corrections Officer
IDPA Safety Officer Instructor
All skill is in vain when an Angel weewees in the flintlock of your musket.

I want people like the above to own and carry weapons, but if you do not have at least some of those type qualifications, I don't want you to own and carry a BB gun. AGAIN: Don't ban guns, but cut out the assault rifles and automatic pistols and all guns from the millions that are un-educated, un-qualified and un-fit mentally to own and carry them.

Sure and while we are at it lets not let people vote in less we think they have a certain level of qualified education and I think only people that have a certain level of qualification should have freedom of speech, lets not forget how many people in history have died or been killed for speaking what others feel are the wrong words. Actually lets give total control of every aspect of our lives to someone else that knows better and can protect us from harm. Does it not mean anything that the rights we have are rights that other people died earning for us? Lets fight to get the people that need mental health help, the help they need and not throw the baby out with the bath water

[Golfingnut]

Sure and while we are at it lets not let people vote in less we think they have a certain level of qualified education and I think only people that have a certain level of qualification should have freedom of speech, lets not forget how many people in history have died or been killed for speaking what others feel are the wrong words. Actually lets give total control of every aspect of our lives to someone else that knows better and can protect us from harm. Does it not mean anything that the rights we have are rights that other people died earning for us? Lets fight to get the people that need mental health help, the help they need and not throw the baby out with the bath water

Again, great points, but Again, just a play on words. Speaking your mind or voting are both less likely to inflict a fatal wound as is a Glock pistol loaded with hollow points in a 33 round clip.

[Golfingnut]

I just realized, I should apologize for the plagiarism of FB. I did just cut and paste those stellar accomplishments. I salute your background FIGMO.

[justjim]

Yes there were assualt weapons available when the constitution was written. They were the most advanced for the time. Same as there were no computers, airplanes, cars, phone, etc., we could go on forever, but it seems that the US Constitution covers all our rights pretty good.

I own a couple of guns myself---I use to hunt a bit----mostly with my father when he was alive. My grandfather use to talk about during the 30's hunting to put food on the table. When our Constitution was written a lot of hunting for food took place. Times change. Besides the obvious population difference, explain why the total deaths from guns would be U.S. 31,347 and UK 39??? I must admit that I am not the brightest bulb in the ceiling but my common sense tells me that we need to consider some common sense gun controls in America. The right to bear arms did not mean the right to weapons of mass destruction IMHO.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Again, great points, but Again, just a play on words. Speaking your mind or voting are both less likely to inflict a fatal wound as is a Glock pistol loaded with hollow points in a 33 round clip.

Makes no difference they are all important and equal rights earned through the blood of others. So I guess some rights are more important than others? How many people through history have been killed because someone spoke their mind? Ask people in other countries that face death and still stand in line to vote, if the act of voting is safe. Is a death only important if it comes in multiples or if thousands die because of an idea or spoken word that's not important because they weren't all killed at the same time by a few weapons. The people in my family that died in past wars didn't just die for a few rights afforded by our constitution, they died for all of the rights afforded by our constitution

[l2ridehd]

I don't want to add fuel to this debate, but why is this all about assault weapons? Everything I read about this tragedy the shooter had a Glock and a Sig which to the best of my knowledge are hand guns. No assault weapons were involved except those law enforcement had. Those hand guns have clips that hold between 9 and 17 rounds. And even the 17 round clip for a Glock is a special type clip not readily available. He also had a high powered rifle (I read this as deer type rifle) which he did not bring into the school. He may have had those extra round clips, I don't know or have not seen those details in anything I have read.

This is just an honest question about the direction this discussion has taken. Maybe I missed something in the reading and what has been reported.

This was a terrible tragedy and we should make sure we have the facts before we go off on tangents that are not relevant.

[perrjojo]

Gun control is a hot issue when these things happen and it is a part of the problem, but only a part. Yes, we need more funding and education in regard to mental health but again, that is only a part of the issue. We live in a culture that glamorizes violence through movies, TV, music and video games. We live in a cyber world where young people are losing social and coping skills. This is a multiple dimensional problem. Just mt opinion.

[janmcn]

I hope that all the posters on this forum who are in favor of everyone being able to have an assault weapon, just listened to the coroner's press conference on TV. It was so horrific that I wouldn't even attempt to summarize it.

A seasoned reporter, who had been an FBI profiler for many years, broke down in tears while he was trying to report.

[downeaster]

"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (My emphasis).

It would appear the reason for our right to bear arms is to protect the state. Along with that right goes the responsibility to muster in a state militia unit when called upon.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (My emphasis).

It would appear the reason for our right to bear arms is to protect the state. Along with that right goes the responsibility to muster in a state militia unit when called upon.
Amen

[janmcn]

I don't want to add fuel to this debate, but why is this all about assault weapons? Everything I read about this tragedy the shooter had a Glock and a Sig which to the best of my knowledge are hand guns. No assault weapons were involved except those law enforcement had. Those hand guns have clips that hold between 9 and 17 rounds. And even the 17 round clip for a Glock is a special type clip not readily available. He also had a high powered rifle (I read this as deer type rifle) which he did not bring into the school. He may have had those extra round clips, I don't know or have not seen those details in anything I have read.

This is just an honest question about the direction this discussion has taken. Maybe I missed something in the reading and what has been reported.

This was a terrible tragedy and we should make sure we have the facts before we go off on tangents that are not relevant.

I know nothing about guns, but I believe the coroner that did the autopsy on some of these children, said they all died after being hit several times by semi-automatic weapons at close range.

[graciegirl]

I don't want to add fuel to this debate, but why is this all about assault weapons? Everything I read about this tragedy the shooter had a Glock and a Sig which to the best of my knowledge are hand guns. No assault weapons were involved except those law enforcement had. Those hand guns have clips that hold between 9 and 17 rounds. And even the 17 round clip for a Glock is a special type clip not readily available. He also had a high powered rifle (I read this as deer type rifle) which he did not bring into the school. He may have had those extra round clips, I don't know or have not seen those details in anything I have read.

This is just an honest question about the direction this discussion has taken. Maybe I missed something in the reading and what has been reported.

This was a terrible tragedy and we should make sure we have the facts before we go off on tangents that are not relevant.

Thanks Chris. Always the voice of reason.

Everyone is upset and this whole discussion is an attempt to figure out something...anything to bring this old world back into some semblance of order.

There just aren't any easy or pat answers. None that I can see.

[Love2cruise]

Now that make sense!

This is the best post I have read! I agree!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I truly believe that the framers of the constitution never intended for the average citizen to OUT ARM the police or military.

Umm...actually they did. Part of the argument over the second amendment was that the people should be able to protect themselves from a government that has run amok and become tyrannical.

One of the first things that Hitler and the Nazis did when they took over in the 1930s was to confiscate all the gun.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

"As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (My emphasis).

It would appear the reason for our right to bear arms is to protect the state. Along with that right goes the responsibility to muster in a state militia unit when called upon.


It might appear that way to some reading only this quote, but after reading all the supporting papers and arguments of the founding fathers, the US Supreme Court has decided that your interpretation is incorrect. In fact one of the arguments that was made at the time of the constitutional convention was that the people have the right to keep and bear arms in order to protect themselves from the government should it become a tyrannical force. Even by the short sentence that you posted it is apparent that the founders felt that freedom was tied directly to the right of the people to keep and bear arms. They believed that a people whose right to bear arms was taken away would not be truly free.

By the way, in the USA there are 88.8 guns per 100 people. In Iran there are 7.3 guns per 100 people.

[Jim&Fran]

Doesn't matter what side of the isle I'm on or what position I take here but this thread is walking the line of Politics.
Gee, isn't that banned from "Talk of the Villages"?

[justjim]

Umm...actually they did. Part of the argument over the second amendment was that the people should be able to protect themselves from a government that has run amok and become tyrannical.

One of the first things that Hitler and the Nazis did when they took over in the 1930s was to confiscate all the gun.

Bow and arrow/musket, knives etc in the days the second amendment was written are a far cry from the weapons of today. Your points are well taken but a bit out of context IMHO. It is a huge stretch to think that the right to bear arms include many of the weapons of today.

[Wing-nut2]

The cars of today are much different then the horse and carrage of yesterday. Would you like to go back to the horse and carrage? Times change.

Please, lets not start the gun thing again. It's the law live with it.

[John_W]

I know nothing about guns, but I believe the coroner that did the autopsy on some of these children, said they all died after being hit several times by semi-automatic weapons at close range.

Here's a Glock 19 and a Sig Sauer P238, there is probably at least 500 to a 1000 of each right now among the 40,000 homes in TV. Both are very popular and well made handguns that sell for about $600 apiece. Each and every gun has a safety, and that starts between your ears, not with something you hold in your hands.

Florida will soon issue it's 1,000,000 concealed weapons permit. That means 1 in every 18 Floridian is probably carrying a gun legally. I believe that's one of the reasons we don't see events like this in florida.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CsNAB1sCKNg/TSnfK7hEaPI/AAAAAAAAHIE/64rVkMpwieU/s400/Glock%2B19.jpg

http://higher-power-outfitters.com/shop/images/sig%20sauer.jpg

I think its pretty sad that you can only put three slugs in a shotgun when your hunting deer but you can put a hundred round it a semi-automatic gun for protection. I think the deer are safer than we are.

Hunting deer with a shotgun seems awfully inhumane, I much rather you use a single shot from high powered rifle if you have to kill wildlife. At least the deer would be dead before he even hears the shot. I wonder how many would be hunting if the deer shot back, it seems like it's not a sport if only one side knows they're playing.



.

[njbchbum]

It might appear that way to some reading only this quote, but after reading all the supporting papers and arguments of the founding fathers, the US Supreme Court has decided that your interpretation is incorrect. In fact one of the arguments that was made at the time of the constitutional convention was that the people have the right to keep and bear arms in order to protect themselves from the government should it become a tyrannical force. Even by the short sentence that you posted it is apparent that the founders felt that freedom was tied directly to the right of the people to keep and bear arms. They believed that a people whose right to bear arms was taken away would not be truly free.

By the way, in the USA there are 88.8 guns per 100 people. In Iran there are 7.3 guns per 100 people.

doc - i pretty much agree with the argument re protection from a tyrannical govt...but...in reading of the supporting arguments, i could not find one that promoted or protected the keeping of guns for the purpose of assault. protection from - yes...assault - no. did i miss a supporting argument for assault?

[AJ32162]

While we are banning assault weapons and high-capacity "clips" (The correct term is actually "magazines"), perhaps we should ban the sale and use of heroin and other hard drugs. That will eliminate the addiction and deaths they cause, as they will no longer be accessible. Oh, wait they are already illegal aren't they? How's that working out? There are already over 18,000 firearm regulations, why not add a few more?

[janmcn]

It's been reported that one of the children was shot 11 times at close range with this assault weapon. There will be 28 funerals in Newtown, CT before Christmas. I just hope that no poster on this forum had a grandchild killed.

[Bucco]

It is becoming apparent that some folks believe that if you do not support tougher gun laws, that you are somehow not sensitive to the horror that occurred in CT.

THAT is extremely unfair...TOTALLY unfair....and I would hope the same exact logic will be allowed for anyone killed by someone in the State of Washington who is using what is now legal drugs !

[buggyone]

"Florida will soon issue it's 1,000,000 concealed weapons permit. That means 1 in every 18 Floridian is probably carrying a gun legally. I believe that's one of the reasons we don't see events like this in florida."

The killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman was not a mass killing but still is drawing national scrutiny to Florida.

[AJ32162]

"Florida will soon issue it's 1,000,000 concealed weapons permit. That means 1 in every 18 Floridian is probably carrying a gun legally. I believe that's one of the reasons we don't see events like this in florida."

The killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman was not a mass killing but still is drawing national scrutiny to Florida.
Since the case is yet to be adjudicated, I'd say it's due more to politics than anything else.

[eweissenbach]

It is becoming apparent that some folks believe that if you do not support tougher gun laws, that you are somehow not sensitive to the horror that occurred in CT.

THAT is extremely unfair...TOTALLY unfair....and I would hope the same exact logic will be allowed for anyone killed by someone in the State of Washington who is using what is now legal drugs !

Who is saying that? Who, bucco? Let's keep the issues clear and not try to play the martyr. Gun safety issues need to be a PART of the dialogue, along with mental health and security issues. On the other side, I am tired of being shouted down by the NRA and told that I am not a defender of the contstitution on this issue. Everyone needs to shed their biases and think and work through the issues that may be controllable, recognizing that not all the issues are controllable.

[Bucco]

Who is saying that? Who, bucco? Let's keep the issues clear and not try to play the martyr. Gun safety issues need to be a PART of the dialogue, along with mental health and security issues. On the other side, I am tired of being shouted down by the NRA and told that I am not a defender of the contstitution on this issue. Everyone needs to shed their biases and think and work through the issues that may be controllable, recognizing that not all the issues are controllable.

While I do not understand how you say what you say about me playing a martyr, I suggest you read the comments that accompany folks who do not endorse any more regulation....hoping that they did not have any children killed or grandchildren or a reminder of the kind of bullet used.

NOBODY, for sure me..is touting the NRA.....my posts on this have been crystal clear.....there are no biases from me. If I have ever touted the NRA, I would love to have a copy of that post. A poster has followed a few folks who want no further legislation with comments that are pointed at "hoping that those posters did not have a grandchildren killed"

That is unfair...not sure why you feel so strongly about me...my posts have supported your position, but I do not like the guilt trip being laid on other folks....it is not fair !

Sorry if you find my posts offensive !! I find the kind of posting I referred to as very offensive and political

I do not and never have supported the NRA.....I made that clear....it is not an issue with me..fairness is

[ugotme]

I can not imagine a more horrible event.

Yes, I am a gun owner. Politics aside, something needs to be done - but what?

As OldcoachED has stated, safety and mental competence are (obviously) important aspects when issuing a permit to a person.
As a former instructor, safety ALWAYS came first. Don't mean to put Figmo on the spot but I do believe he will agree with me.

However, does anyone REALLY think that criminals - repeat - CRIMINALS are going to obey more gun laws?

Do you really think that ALL guns could be collected and
destroyed - IMPOSSIBLE!

BTW - Almost every handgun you buy is NOT an automatic weapon - this is a misnomer. They are semi-automatic - you have to pull the trigger each time to shoot.

I confess that I do not have the answer.

[Bogie Shooter]

Florida will soon issue it's 1,000,000 concealed weapons permit. That means 1 in every 18 Floridian is probably carrying a gun legally. I believe that's one of the reasons we don't see events like this in florida.
.

A very bold statement that cannot be proven.

[pooh]

If one's grandchild was a victim of this unthinkable tragedy, I wonder just how thoughts on gun control might be affected?

Talking about how and what should be done when not directly impacted by tragedy may just change when someone we love suffers.

[eweissenbach]

While I do not understand how you say what you say about me playing a martyr, I suggest you read the comments that accompany folks who do not endorse any more regulation....hoping that they did not have any children killed or grandchildren or a reminder of the kind of bullet used.

NOBODY, for sure me..is touting the NRA.....my posts on this have been crystal clear.....there are no biases from me. If I have ever touted the NRA, I would love to have a copy of that post. A poster has followed a few folks who want no further legislation with comments that are pointed at "hoping that those posters did not have a grandchildren killed"

That is unfair...not sure why you feel so strongly about me...my posts have supported your position, but I do not like the guilt trip being laid on other folks....it is not fair !

Sorry if you find my posts offensive !! I find the kind of posting I referred to as very offensive and political

I do not and never have supported the NRA.....I made that clear....it is not an issue with me..fairness is

I didn't say I find your posts offensive, you are generally thoughtful and make good arguments, though I often disagree with them. I apologize if I misstated your intent. You are correct that it is unfair to imply that people that are against gun control are somehow in favor of these kinds of killings. I too am a crusader for fairness.

[Jim&Fran]

It doesn't matter what side of the isle I stand or what position I take. It seems as if the thread here is leaning very Political.
I thought that "political views and referances were banned" in Talk of the Villages.
Just saying.......

[cologal]

I think its pretty sad that you can only put three slugs in a shotgun when your hunting deer but you can put a hundred round it a semi-automatic gun for protection. I think the deer are safer than we are.:sad:

Great post!!!!

[rubicon]

My concern is that politicians being politicians that they will take the easy way out and blame it on guns and ignore the fact that the guns in question did not belong to this unstable person but his mother, This was a family with money and intelligence and yet this young man was not contained. Perhaps his outrage was instantaneous? My guess their were signs.

We cannot address politics on this thread but one cannot ignore the global attempt to ban guns as a part of this discussion. To me such an attempt is not in the best interests of Americans for those reasons explained when passing the 2nd Amendment.

This gun issue is very emotional. I cannot and will not discuss it with my wife because if she had her way guns would have never been invited

Again state laws have to create better avenues for the treatment of people with neuro-brain disorders. The Mentaa Health System has to improve and funds have to be available. Ffinally society has to education itself that mental health issue should be looked at as any other disease because once you break through the stigma much can be accomplished

Finally I heard an expert on the news state that he went back in time and found that in 1922 several young children were killed in aschool, I forgot which state but guns were not used the man set off a bomb.

[mrdarcy]

I'm a staunch conservative, but I heartily agree with a ban on assault weapons.

[shcisamax]

While the mental health issue must be addressed, it isn't going to be solved anytime soon. I am still not convinced that you need a gun with a reloadable clip that can kill 26 people in less than two minutes to feel you can protect your family...from WHAT? or to go hunting? We have to come up with a reasonable, I repeat reasonable, solution to what is on the market. I would really like to know why his mother bought all these guns.

[mulligan]

IMHO, it's way too late for any ban on any or all guns to be effective. There are too many of them out there to control already. If sales were stopped in the US, our gracious NAFTA partners would send them across our borders.

[Taltarzac725]

IMHO, it's way too late for any ban on any or all guns to be effective. There are too many of them out there to control already. If sales were stopped in the US, our gracious NAFTA partners would send them across our borders.

That seems like a very realistic assessment. A ban though might get the assault rifles out of the hands of some people with evil intentions like the CT school shooter. He looks like someone who just had a very evil approach of showing his anger and rage at his mother and everything she loved. She would shoot these guns--hers--with him and taught him how to use the guns used in CT's elementary school massacre. Some people are just evil. There are very many men and woman in history who were not mentally ill just rotten to the core. Not sure how they got that way but it seemed that their evil thoughts and intentions were their own and not based on any messed up chemicals streaming through their brains.

It seems unfair to put the onus of this evil on people who are struggling with genuine mental illness problems who never harm anyone. There are millions of these people in the US. Do some research on the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. http://www.nami.org/

[Cantwaittoarrive]

When the OK City bombing occured no one said lets ban box trucks, don't forget there was a pre-school in the federal building. After 9/11 no one said lets ban airplanes after all there were kids and 3,000 + people killed in a mass murder ! Why? Because most people could see the box truck and the airplanes were just tools used by deranged, mis-guided people to accomplish their goal. The minute guns become involved people seem to lose their ability to think clearly and instead of blaming the act on deranged, mis-guided people it becomes the fault of the gun and the gut reacation is to take away or limit the right to bear arms that have been paid for dearly by so many. Has anyone asked what would have happened if the killer didn't have a gun but was dead set on doing his deed? He could have used a bomb and killed everyone in the school or who knows he might of done nothing but, we shouldn't be so quick to give away our rights

[lovesports]

The more details coming out, the worst it gets.

[graciegirl]

I'm a staunch conservative, but I heartily agree with a ban on assault weapons.

The more details coming out, the worst it gets.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbejNNCTr7k&feature=youtu.be
Today, 07:38 AM
Taltarzac725 (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/members/taltarzac725-25479/)https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/talkofthevillages/statusicon/user_online.gif
Sage
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,770


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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulliganhttps://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/talkofthevillages/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/pretty-sad-65904/index6.html#post595281)
IMHO, it's way too late for any ban on any or all guns to be effective. There are too many of them out there to control already. If sales were stopped in the US, our gracious NAFTA partners would send them across our borders.

That seems like a very realistic assessment. A ban though might get the assault rifles out of the hands of some people with evil intentions like the CT school shooter. He looks like someone who just had a very evil approach of showing his anger and rage at his mother and everything she loved. She would shoot these guns--hers--with him and taught him how to use the guns used in CT's elementary school massacre. Some people are just evil. There are very many men and woman in history who were not mentally ill just rotten to the core. Not sure how they got that way but it seemed that their evil thoughts and intentions were their own and not based on any messed up chemicals streaming through their brains.

It seems unfair to put the onus of this evil on people who are struggling with genuine mental illness problems who never harm anyone. There are millions of these people in the US. Do some research on the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill. http://www.nami.org/

I tried to multiquote but couldn't capture all of the remarks I thought were wonderful...


When we all speak from our hearts, and are honest, we come up with wonderful, caring and insiteful, thought provoking posts like these.

As we age we become more insistent on our beliefs and that does not pave the way for compromise and finding answers. The people quoted above are admired by me for these statements.

And of course, I could be wrong and often am.

[Moderator]

This is just a reminder, not directed at any specific individual post above....

This discussion is about a notable current event and, for the most part, the posts have stayed on track to the event and the related issues of weapons and mental health.

Any posts that stray into partisan politics or inflammatory name calling of other TOTV members or public officials, will be edited or deleted. If the discussion strays too far, the thread will be closed.

When a controversial topic can be discussed with civility and respect, we all benefit.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Billyworld]

:cry:This is truly a tragedy that is becoming more common. The people doing the killing are in their 20's. Could this be because of watching all these shoot em up movies from the time their born until they are in the 20's? Could it be because we have taken God out of schools? Could it be that teachers and parents are forbidden to give a old fashioned "Ass beating"? There are many questions to be answered on "Why". Guns are not the issue. Look at the worst terrorist attack on our Country where our Country was brought to it's knees. This attack was made possible by box knives that can be bought at any hardware store. As a gun owner with dozens of firearms including assault rifles, I object to more gun control. I could never think about killing my mother. Killing a child would be unthinkable also but we have crazy unstable people among us. I carry a automatic pistol whenever I leave the TV because I was robbed at gunpoint myself. I honestly believe if one wants to kill many people, he/she will find a way. I would think if you went to a large sporting event with a full size pickup truck and drove into people at 60MPH, You could probably kill more people than were killed at that school. Do we then talk about banning large pickup trucks? I think we need to find out what is wrong with people that makes people want to kill. Enough said.----May God Bless the victims of this tragedy along with the family's and their community. :cry:

[Bogie Shooter]

:cry:This is truly a tragedy that is becoming more common. The people doing the killing are in their 20's. Could this be because of watching all these shoot em up movies from the time their born until they are in the 20's? Could it be because we have taken God out of schools? Could it be that teachers and parents are forbidden to give a old fashioned "Ass beating"? There are many questions to be answered on "Why". Guns are not the issue. Look at the worst terrorist attack on our Country where our Country was brought to it's knees. This attack was made possible by box knives that can be bought at any hardware store. As a gun owner with dozens of firearms including assault rifles, I object to more gun control. I could never think about killing my mother. Killing a child would be unthinkable also but we have crazy unstable people among us. I carry a automatic pistol whenever I leave the TV because I was robbed at gunpoint myself. I honestly believe if one wants to kill many people, he/she will find a way. I would think if you went to a large sporting event with a full size pickup truck and drove into people at 60MPH, You could probably kill more people than were killed at that school. Do we then talk about banning large pickup trucks? I think we need to find out what is wrong with people that makes people want to kill. Enough said.----May God Bless the victims of this tragedy along with the family's and their community. :cry:

How is the need defined for this type weapon??

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Bow and arrow/musket, knives etc in the days the second amendment was written are a far cry from the weapons of today. Your points are well taken but a bit out of context IMHO. It is a huge stretch to think that the right to bear arms include many of the weapons of today.

I believe that the thinking of the founders was that if the government is allowed to have a weapon then the citizens should be able to have the same weapon so that they can revolt against the government should the need arise.

I don't have an answer, but I know that spoons and forks didn't make me fat and that car manufacturers are not responsible for the millions that are killed in car accidents every year and the breweries and distillers are not responsible for people killed by drunk drivers or alcohol poisoning.

As has been stated, many of our ancestors shed their blood protecting the rights guaranteed by our constitution. ALL of rights are important and they all need to be protected. The issue is finding balance between protecting these rights and protecting the people. What we've been doing over the past fifty years does not seem to be working.

[EdV]

Why does anyone need an assault weapon.??

Well for one thing, more than a million American GIs have been professionally trained to use one. So when they return to civilian life, it’s a viable option for a home defense weapon.

And as for the alarming number of US homicides, keep in mind that there are roughly eighteen other countries that have more homicides per capita than the U.S. And the second deadliest country is Jamaica in spite of enacting strict gun controls and required licensing over 40 years ago.

Furthermore, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/CT) website has Connecticut listed as one of the most restrictive gun control states.

And for the record, CNN is now reporting "Adam Lanza was found dead in a classroom, and police recovered three weapons from the scene: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, a source with knowledge of the investigation said." The Bushmaster is the civilian version of the M16 military standard issue rifle.

[2BNTV]

I am one who does not believe that weapons that would cause mass destruction be placed in the hands of evil/mentally unstable people as the general public does not need weapons of this type to defend themselves.

There are many facets to this terrible tradgedy:
1. Obviously, Adam Lanza was mentally unstable.
2. Mother was a gun affecianado.
3. Access to a m-16 type weapon.
4. 11 bullets in one child.

I'm sure the NRA will want to keep their guns as the constitution was written.

When this country was formed, the right to bear arms was a constitutional right. Somehow, in today's society, it seems to include guns that contain many bullets fired at a rapid rate. I think this is something that both the NRA and anti gun advocates need to rethink. If someone is evil or mentally unbalance, they will find a way to obtain these type of guns. In a perfect world, this would not have happened. With that being said, I think we should all work for a solution to ensure this type of tradgey won't happen again.

I would hope something good can come out of this senseless tradgedy,

[Jim&Fran]

If a madman wants to kill innocent people he will find a way......
Killers don't need guns to kill people.......
Timothy Mcveigh used fertilizer.......
9-11 terrorists used box cuters and planes......
The Nazis used cyanide gas.......
Taking guns from innocent people will not protect inocent people........
The problem is not guns........
It's a Godless society.........
We all pray and ask, why would God allow things like this to happen?
Well, if you just close your eyes and listen, God will say.......
"it might be because the Government said I'm not allowed in your schools anymore."
Let's all take a deep breath and reevaluate not just gun controll but controll of what our Government believes is best for all of us.
This not a political statement of any kind, I am a Vietnam wounded Veteran and retired NYC Police Officer who has seen his share of mans inhumanity to man.
God Bless this great Country.

[graciegirl]

I am one who does not believe that weapons that would cause mass destruction be placed in the hands of evil/mentally unstable people as the general public doe not need weapons of this type to defend themselves.

There are many facets to this terrible tradgedy:
1. Obviously, Adam Lanza was mentally unstable.
2. Mother was a gun affecianado.
3. Access to a m-16 type weapon.
4. 11 bullets in one child.

I'm sure the NRA will want to keep their guns as the constitution was written.

When this country was formed, the right to bear arms was a constitutional right. Somehow, in today's society, it seems to include guns that contain many bullets fired at a rapid rate. I think this is something that both the NRA and anti gun advocates need to rethink. If someone is evil or mentally unbalance, they will find a way to obtain these type of guns. In a perfect world, this would not have happened. With that being said, I think we should all work for a solution to ensure this type of tradgey won't happen again.

I would hope something good can come out of this senseless tradgedy,

Thoughfully written. You just can't get here soon enough for us.

[Bogie Shooter]

If a madman wants to kill innocent people he will find a way......
Killers don't need guns to kill people.......
Timothy Mcveigh used fertilizer.......
9-11 terrorists used box cuters and planes......
The Nazis used cyanide gas.......
Taking guns from innocent people will not protect inocent people........
The problem is not guns........
It's a Godless society.........
We all pray and ask, why would God allow things like this to happen?
Well, if you just close your eyes and listen, God will say.......
"it might be because the Government said I'm not allowed in your schools anymore."
Let's all take a deep breath and reevaluate not just gun controll but controll of what our Government believes is best for all of us.
This not a political statement of any kind, I am a Vietnam wounded Veteran and retired NYC Police Officer who has seen his share of mans inhumanity to man.
God Bless this great Country.

Yes, to the right to have guns.............................just not those that are used to fight wars!

[eweissenbach]

I am one who does not believe that weapons that would cause mass destruction be placed in the hands of evil/mentally unstable people as the general public doe not need weapons of this type to defend themselves.

There are many facets to this terrible tradgedy:
1. Obviously, Adam Lanza was mentally unstable.
2. Mother was a gun affecianado.
3. Access to a m-16 type weapon.
4. 11 bullets in one child.

I'm sure the NRA will want to keep their guns as the constitution was written.

When this country was formed, the right to bear arms was a constitutional right. Somehow, in today's society, it seems to include guns that contain many bullets fired at a rapid rate. I think this is something that both the NRA and anti gun advocates need to rethink. If someone is evil or mentally unbalance, they will find a way to obtain these type of guns. In a perfect world, this would not have happened. With that being said, I think we should all work for a solution to ensure this type of tradgey won't happen again.

I would hope something good can come out of this senseless tradgedy,

You are a good man!

[pooh]

I am one who does not believe that weapons that would cause mass destruction be placed in the hands of evil/mentally unstable people as the general public doe not need weapons of this type to defend themselves.

There are many facets to this terrible tradgedy:
1. Obviously, Adam Lanza was mentally unstable.
2. Mother was a gun affecianado.
3. Access to a m-16 type weapon.
4. 11 bullets in one child.

I'm sure the NRA will want to keep their guns as the constitution was written.

When this country was formed, the right to bear arms was a constitutional right. Somehow, in today's society, it seems to include guns that contain many bullets fired at a rapid rate. I think this is something that both the NRA and anti gun advocates need to rethink. If someone is evil or mentally unbalance, they will find a way to obtain these type of guns. In a perfect world, this would not have happened. With that being said, I think we should all work for a solution to ensure this type of tradgey won't happen again.

I would hope something good can come out of this senseless tradgedy,

Thank you.

[lovesports]

If a madman wants to kill innocent people he will find a way......
Killers don't need guns to kill people.......
Timothy Mcveigh used fertilizer.......
9-11 terrorists used box cuters and planes......
The Nazis used cyanide gas.......
Taking guns from innocent people will not protect inocent people........
The problem is not guns........
It's a Godless society.........
We all pray and ask, why would God allow things like this to happen?
Well, if you just close your eyes and listen, God will say.......
"it might be because the Government said I'm not allowed in your schools anymore."
Let's all take a deep breath and reevaluate not just gun controll but controll of what our Government believes is best for all of us.
This not a political statement of any kind, I am a Vietnam wounded Veteran and retired NYC Police Officer who has seen his share of mans inhumanity to man.
God Bless this great Country.

This thread is about what has just happened and has happened many times before. There had been many mass killings recently in public places, especially schools. In every case it has been assault type weapons!!! This is a problem.
You can keep you guns but not assault weapons. My daughter hid under a desk at VT for over an hour. Her best friends were killed. We have cried many many tears and she still can not stand to hear a gun shot. You will never know the fear we felt as we prayed she would not be shot. We ran to a church and just prayed.
This happened years ago and nothing has changed and it still happening.
I own guns and have all my life but for hunting. Please don't do a smoke and mirror and on what just happened. Work with today's problem. I agree we are too great of a country to let our young to be gunned down and traumatised forever and ...do nothing! You have no idea what this is about until it happens to your most precious children or grandchildren.

[bluedog103]

It seems that most people posting on this thread wouldn't know an assault weapon from a bb gun. While some posters are definitely expert, most are not. We already have a ban on automatic weapons. An automatic rifle fires continuously when the trigger is squeezed. It will fire until the trigger is released, it runs out of ammo or the weapon malfunctions. These weapons are already banned. Assault weapons are semi-automatic weapons no more powerful than the non-assault weapons out there. This includes civilian versions of the M-16. When a semi-automatic weapon is fired one pull of the trigger fires one round. It's no more of a weapon of mass destruction than a hunting rifle, if fact some, if not most "assault weapons" are less powerful than a deer rifle.
All guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. Assault weapons are actually used in a very small percentage of crimes involving firearms. Banning assault weapons will do nothing to reduce gun related crime. I don't have an answer but think we should be doing a much better job of keeping weapons of any kind out of the hands of those who are mentally or emotionally unfit to use them. Something should be done but a ban of assault weapons isn't going to do it for us. It might make us feel like we've made progress and it might make some points for the politicians it will be an illusion.

[graciegirl]

It seems that most people posting on this thread wouldn't know an assault weapon from a bb gun. While some posters are definitely expert, most are not. We already have a ban on automatic weapons. An automatic rifle fires continuously when the trigger is squeezed. It will fire until the trigger is released, it runs out of ammo or the weapon malfunctions. These weapons are already banned. Assault weapons are semi-automatic weapons no more powerful than the non-assault weapons out there. This includes civilian versions of the M-16. When a semi-automatic weapon is fired one pull of the trigger fires one round. It's no more of a weapon of mass destruction than a hunting rifle, if fact some, if not most "assault weapons" are less powerful than a deer rifle.
All guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. Assault weapons are actually used in a very small percentage of crimes involving firearms. Banning assault weapons will do nothing to reduce gun related crime. I don't have an answer but think we should be doing a much better job of keeping weapons of any kind out of the hands of those who are mentally or emotionally unfit to use them. Something should be done but a ban of assault weapons isn't going to do it for us. It might make us feel like we've made progress and it might make some points for the politicians it will be an illusion.

I think I heard somewhere somehow in some state if you suffered a concussion you had to relinquish your drivers license until you were well . Now this is repeating something I think I remember. Well if you are being treated for a disorder that could cause harm to others, it should be made mandatory to report that by the person treating you, like health professionals and teachers have to report suspected child abuse.

Surely SOMETHING could be done without harming people simply being treated for things like depression or post partum disorder or OCD. It is a challenge to be sure. AND of course there would be the possibility of error and abuse of any such law.

Nothing is simple.

[gamby]

A study done by consumer advocate (Ralph Nader) found that DOCTORS kill over 200,000 people every year in the U.S.
Let me repeat that " Doctors KILL about 300,000 people every year in the U.S.""

Not one person has said "Lets ban doctors

Prescriptionrscription and over the counter drugs Kill about 80,000 people a year in the U.S.

Draw your own conclusions.

[janmcn]

A study done by consumer advocate (Ralph Nader) found that DOCTORS kill over 200,000 people every year in the U.S.
Let me repeat that " Doctors KILL about 300,000 people every year in the U.S.""

Not one person has said "Lets ban doctors

Prescriptionrscription and over the counter drugs Kill about 80,000 people a year in the U.S.

Draw your own conclusions.

WOW...in the time it took you to type that post, the number of people killed by doctors increased by 100,000. That is a lot of people dead in a short amount of time.

We can work on banning doctors and prescriptions and over the counter drugs, but right now the main goal on everybody's mind is banning semi-automatic weapons and mega clips, and making sure all gun owners are licensed and pass a mental exam.

[AJ32162]

WOW...in the time it took you to type that post, the number of people killed by doctors increased by 100,000. That is a lot of people dead in a short amount of time.

We can work on banning doctors and prescriptions and over the counter drugs, but right now the main goal on everybody's mind is banning semi-automatic weapons and mega clips, and making sure all gun owners are licensed and pass a mental exam. Good luck with that.

[gamby]

I was just making a point to those that say ,ban guns, and I do agree with you about better screening and licensing .
My daughter taught at that school as a student teacher awhile ago and the Principle that was killed lived near her, so I have a personal interest .
I lived in CT all my life.
I think the current talk has focused to much on guns instead of the victims.
I would be in favor of teachers going through training and carrying concealed weapons at work if they wanted to. I don't know how things would have turned out different if this were so; Just maybe some deaths might have been prevented if a teacher was able to try to protect them by shooting the attacker.

[shcisamax]

Not allowing mentally ill people to have guns makes sense. In this case, it was the mother..no history..who owned the four guns and a rifle.

[thekeithfan]

Can you hunt deer with assault weapons? Seems like if you cant get the deer in three shots you need an assault weapon.

[Taltarzac725]

Perhaps, we need more education about guns as well as mental health issues.

While I was fighting for better access to information for victims/survivors of violent crimes through libraries during much of the 1990s and half way into the 2000s, I tried to link up as many public and law libraries to victim rights groups and resources. I was using approachs taught to me at the University of Denver School of Librarianship and Information Management from which I received a MA in 1984.

TOTVers should contact their public and other libraries nearby and ask them what kind of materials they have that would help other people manage mental illness in their families and in their communities as well as how to deal with the proper handling of guns and the like.

Maybe, if we all look out for another we can curb some of this violence commited by people with mental illnesses.

Also contact groups like NAMI and Victim Resource Providers to see what they might like to see in local public and other type libraries. https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/support-groups-click-here-78/resource-finding-support-those-mental-illness-9060/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/support-groups-click-here-78/link-victims-crimes-looking-information-about-area-resources-8999/

[senior citizen]

............

[Monkei]

Well we can ignore all this data and do nothing ... Imagine what it will be like 20 years from now.

[Golfingnut]

So, lets find a better way to stimulate, manipulate, reroute thoughts within the brain through surgery rather than over medication. Medication works very well for some, where others need more serious intervention like surgery. In the mean time, Drugs are certainly better than not doing anything.

[PaPaLarry]

Why can't we as citizens of this great country, come together for a solution?? At least sit down with each other and think this out? Everytime there is a killing with a gun (regardless what type) you touch hundreds of people!! (family, friends, neighbors, doctors, nurses, plus community etc.) I'm not a gun owner, but believe in protection if the citizen chooses to own one. I hope and pray, that everyone can come to common ground, and come to some type of regulation, and laws that will satisfy everyone, so we too can have the low numbers that the UK has now when it come to gun killings. (In fact, I think in the UK the police don't carry guns? Not sure!) It takes a tragedy like this one, for people to speak up, and discuss ways that will satisfy everyone. Here its Christmas and those poor famlies are mourning, and I grieve with them. God love them all!!!:pray:

[2BNTV]

Why can't we as citizens of this great country, come together for a solution?? At least sit down with each other and think this out? Everytime there is a killing with a gun (regardless what type) you touch hundreds of people!! (family, friends, neighbors, doctors, nurses, plus community etc.) I'm not a gun owner, but believe in protection if the citizen chooses to own one. I hope and pray, that everyone can come to common ground, and come to some type of regulation, and laws that will satisfy everyone, so we too can have the low numbers that the UK has now when it come to gun killings. (In fact, I think in the UK the police don't carry guns? Not sure!) It takes a tragedy like this one, for people to speak up, and discuss ways that will satisfy everyone. Here its Christmas and those poor famlies are mourning, and I grieve with them. God love them!!!:pray:

Nice post.

Newtown only has one funeral home. Very sad that mutiple funerals are being held at once.

Let us have prayers for the little ones as well as the heroes. :pray:

Hug you grandchildren and love one's today.

[graciegirl]

Why can't we as citizens of this great country, come together for a solution?? At least sit down with each other and think this out? Everytime there is a killing with a gun (regardless what type) you touch hundreds of people!! (family, friends, neighbors, doctors, nurses, plus community etc.) I'm not a gun owner, but believe in protection if the citizen chooses to own one. I hope and pray, that everyone can come to common ground, and come to some type of regulation, and laws that will satisfy everyone, so we too can have the low numbers that the UK has now when it come to gun killings. (In fact, I think in the UK the police don't carry guns? Not sure!) It takes a tragedy like this one, for people to speak up, and discuss ways that will satisfy everyone. Here its Christmas and those poor famlies are mourning, and I grieve with them. God love them!!!:pray:
That is just how I feel. Thank you for putting it into words.

[senior citizen]

.......

[senior citizen]

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