You really want to open a can of worms?

[eweissenbach]

Lots of discussion about violent video games and movies etc. contributing to the real violence in this country. When gun control comes up, we hear from the defenders of the 2nd amendment. That is nothing compared to what you will hear if there becomes a movement to ban violent video games or violence in movies from the first amendment crew. In my opinion we have broadened the intent of these amendments to mean something that was never considered by the framers of the constitution. Be that as it may, it becomes virtually impossible to do anything about these problems at this point.

In my personal fantasy world there would be limited and regulated access to hunting and self-defense weapons, serious mandatory sentences for violators of gun laws (many of which already exist) and perpetrators of crime carried out with a weapon. There would be no realistic games where the controller of the game could use a virtual weapon to kill virtual enemies. There would be no songs with lyrics that incite violence against women or anyone else. Bomb making sites and others promoting violence would be shut down, and the creators prosecuted. This does not even scratch the surface of things that I would change, or that, in my opinion, need to change. I am a progressive and realize that things continue to change and evolve, most for the better, but some things were really better before television, computers, and the relaxation of the movie code. Maybe in the afterlife my fantasy will play out, but in this world I unfortunately don't see it getting much better.

[gomoho]

:agree:

[Taltarzac725]

Lots of discussion about violet video games and movies etc. contributing to the real violence in this country. When gun control comes up, we hear from the defenders of the 2nd amendment. That is nothing compared to what you will hear if there becomes a movement to ban violent video games or violence in movies from the first amendment crew. In my opinion we have broadened the intent of these amendments to mean something that was never considered by the framers of the constitution. Be that as it may, it becomes virtually impossible to do anything about these problems at this point.

In my personal fantasy world there would be limited and regulated access to hunting and self-defense weapons, serious mandatory sentences for violators of gun laws (many of which already exist) and perpetrators of crime carried out with a weapon. There would be no realistic games where the controller of the game could use a virtual weapon to kill virtual enemies. There would be no songs with lyrics that incite violence against women or anyone else. Bomb making sites and others promoting violence would be shut down, and the creators prosecuted. This does not even scratch the surface of things that I would change, or that, in my opinion, need to change. I am a progressive and realize that things continue to change and evolve, most for the better, but some things were really better before television, computers, and the relaxation of the movie code. Maybe in the afterlife my fantasy will play out, but in this world I unfortunately don't see it getting much better.

It seems more up to the parents to monitor what kids watch and play on video games and the like. Adults should be able to tell the difference between the worlds of say Middle Earth (The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogies be they in film, book or video game form) from reality.

A Clockwork Orange had a solution to destroying the violent tendencies of its anti-hero by having the State force him to watch violent movies and other scenes of violence over-and-over again with his eyes pried open. Unfortunately, with some kids the more they play extremely violent video games with the full ability to close their eyes, to blink and look away, the more desensitized to violence they become.

Still seems more of getting to the hearts and minds of kids through education than anything else. Overall this seems a matter of our educators and kids' parents, parent, grandparent(s), uncle, aunts, grand uncles, grand aunts.

From personal experience, it seems the more you tell a kid that he or she should not watch some show or play some video game, the more they want to watch it. Especially with teens.

[2BNTV]

Lots of discussion about violet video games and movies etc. contributing to the real violence in this country. When gun control comes up, we hear from the defenders of the 2nd amendment. That is nothing compared to what you will hear if there becomes a movement to ban violent video games or violence in movies from the first amendment crew. In my opinion we have broadened the intent of these amendments to mean something that was never considered by the framers of the constitution. Be that as it may, it becomes virtually impossible to do anything about these problems at this point.

In my personal fantasy world there would be limited and regulated access to hunting and self-defense weapons, serious mandatory sentences for violators of gun laws (many of which already exist) and perpetrators of crime carried out with a weapon. There would be no realistic games where the controller of the game could use a virtual weapon to kill virtual enemies. There would be no songs with lyrics that incite violence against women or anyone else. Bomb making sites and others promoting violence would be shut down, and the creators prosecuted. This does not even scratch the surface of things that I would change, or that, in my opinion, need to change. I am a progressive and realize that things continue to change and evolve, most for the better, but some things were really better before television, computers, and the relaxation of the movie code. Maybe in the afterlife my fantasy will play out, but in this world I unfortunately don't see it getting much better.

Consider them opened. :smiley:

I agree with you that as a society there is too much violence in video games, movies, music, etc. I for one would never go see a gory movie or even somthing billed as a horror movie as I see too much of violence in the news. Some people enjoyed being titilated by horror. I find watching something pleasant more preferable. I don't watch the news on television as it's who murdered who and who raped who. I much rather get my news from the internet but then it has videos and I can select, if I want to watch it.

I would like to go back to days when people bought their children toys that promoted learning. In a perfect world, banning of violence through music, movies and video games would happen. Being in the real world, there isn't a chance odf a snowball in he** that will come to fruition.

We owe it to our grandchildren to provide a safe environment. Will they always be totally safe? No, but we have to try to make it as safe as possible and minimize and insulate them from the horrors of life until they reach the legal age.

My heart breaks over the 20 children lost in Newtown as one of my co-workers had her child attending kindergarten that day. Donations will be collected at work for those in need.

Have a nice day everyone. :smiley:

[eweissenbach]

It seems more up to the parents to monitor what kids watch and play on video games and the like. Adults should be able to tell the difference between the worlds of say Middle Earth (The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogies be they in film, book or video game form.

A Clockwork Orange had a solution to destroying the violent tendencies of its anti-hero by having the State force him to watch violent movies and other scenes of violence over-and-over again with his eyes pried open. Unfortunately, with some kids the more they play extremely violent video games with the full ability to close their eyes, to blink and look away, the more desensitized to violence they become.

Still seems more of getting to the hearts and minds of kids through education than anything else. Overall this seems a matter of our educators and kids' parents, parent, grandparent(s), uncle, aunts, grand uncles, grand aunts.

From personal experience, it seems the more you tell a kid that he or she should not watch some show or play some video game, the more they want to watch it. Especially with teens.

Much of that is true of course. The problem being, that people with minds that tend to fantacize about violence will always find a way to access that which is available, despite the guidance of parents, clergy, educators, etc. Keep in mind the last several mass killers that come to mind were all "adults"; Connecticut, Aurora, Arizona, Va Tech................

[blueash]

Our cultural exposure to video games, news media, movies, TV shows, websites and music is no different than the exposure of citizens in UK, Canada, Australia and other developed English speaking nations. However only in this country do we have regularly occuring slaughter both in massacres like those in the last several months and the grinding daily death toll of individual gun homicides. And only in this country do we have the second amendment and organizations and individuals which interpret it to prohibit any meaningful restrictions on citizen gun ownership (the phrase well regulated was rendered moot by the present SC, prior to that there was no prohibition on local gun regulations).
For an example of what can be done I would point to the example of Australia where in 1996 as a result of a massacre there was a rigorous set of regulations enacted. Since then there has only been either zero or one (depending on the definition of mass meaning 4 deaths, there was an incident with 3).In the 18 years prior to these laws there had been 13 such mass murders. It would be fair to point out that the rate of gun homicide/suicide was lower in Australia prior to the new laws than it is in the US, but it has gone even lower.
Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia)
Gun deaths by nation
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate)
Will the CDC be doing any research on the epidemic of gun deaths in this country? We have approximately 32,000 firearms deaths a year. That is about the same as those caused by hypertension or liver disease. The CDC regularly publishes research on these killers, but not anything which might reduce gun deaths because...
specific language was inserted into the CDC's funding prohibiting it by the NRA's enablers in Congress http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?pagewanted=all

An interesting article looking at the comsumption of video game consumption and gun related murders is at http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/17/ten-country-comparison-suggests-theres-little-or-no-link-between-video-games-and-gun-murders/
We are in vigorous agreement that graphic depictions of violence cannot be helpful. But only here do we meld the availability of highly effective mass killing tools with whatever external and internal triggers drive the individual to action.

[Cedwards38]

I would also add to that fantasy world...........there would be parents who would stop trying to be just best friends with their children and actually be parents to their children. That means saying no to them occasionally, teaching them values, soft loving them when they are right and tough loving them when they are wrong, ignoring whining and drama, not making excuses for them, and demanding that they learn to behave in a civil manner that is respectful of those around them. I understand that some children have special needs, and I accept that, and sympathize with that, but I'm talking about the run of the mill kid who doesn't know right from wrong because they have been told by parents their entire life that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. You don't want them playing violent video games, don't buy them, and forbid it, with consequences. You don't want them to watch inappropriate television, turn it off and forbid it with consequences. You don't want them having bad grades, demand good ones, with consequences. You don't want them being disrespectful, forbid it, with consequences. I spent a lot of years as a public school administrator, most as an elementary school principal, and I could tell you some stories. Your children will love you if you raise them to be good responsible adults, and not if all you ever do is try to make them happy.

OK, I'm off my soapbox. Now all of you who disagree, go ahead and let me have it. I can take it. 29 years in the public schools will make your skin pretty thick. :wave:

[eweissenbach]

I would also add to that fantasy world...........there would be parents who would stop trying to be just best friends with their children and actually be parents to their children. That means saying no to them occasionally, teaching them values, soft loving them when they are right and tough loving them when they are wrong, ignoring whining and drama, not making excuses for them, and demanding that they learn to behave in a civil manner that is respectful of those around them. I understand that some children have special needs, and I accept that, and sympathize with that, but I'm talking about the run of the mill kid who doesn't know right from wrong because they have been told by parents their entire life that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. You don't want them playing violent video games, don't buy them, and forbid it, with consequences. You don't want them to watch inappropriate television, turn it off and forbid it with consequences. You don't want them having bad grades, demand good ones, with consequences. You don't want them being disrespectful, forbid it, with consequences. I spent a lot of years as a public school administrator, most as an elementary school principal, and I could tell you some stories. Your children will love you if you raise them to be good responsible adults, and not if all you ever do is try to make them happy.

OK, I'm off my soapbox. Now all of you who disagree, go ahead and let me have it. I can take it. 29 years in the public schools will make your skin pretty thick. :wave:

I agree with all you say. I too spent many years in education, and that leads me to believe that this is the most unrealistic fantasy of all, unfortunately. The number of children who come from homes in which values and limits are basically nonexistent is frightening.

[JAV0108]

I have one thing to add and it is my opinion only, BUT I believe that God needs to be brought back into this country. We were founded on Christian values, let us all fight to get them back. We need to make our voices loud so they can be heard. Doesn't the squeaky wheel get it's way?

[gerryann]

I have one thing to add and it is my opinion only, BUT I believe that God needs to be brought back into this country. We were founded on Christian values, let us all fight to get them back. We need to make our voices loud so they can be heard. Doesn't the squeaky wheel get it's way?

This is so true!!!!

[graciegirl]

What I hear when I hear all of you saying how you feel this might be fixed, what I hear is your suffering and anger that this unspeakable tragedy has occurred and like the grown ups we all are we want to prevent it from happening again.

We are united in that. There is no use arguing right now. Wait and vote what your concience tells you is right. This is a democracy.

That is all we can do. And we can pray.

Making each other angry accomplishes absolutely nothing. And voicing your opinion does not change others opinions about guns, mental health, ways to raise children, video games etc. All of these things are contributing factors but us arguing about solutions will not bring solutions.

[mulligan]

Once again, Gracie, you are the voice of reason, and a cheerleader for peace and harmony. I hope you and your's have the happiest of holidays.

[ugotme]

I would also add to that fantasy world...........there would be parents who would stop trying to be just best friends with their children and actually be parents to their children. That means saying no to them occasionally, teaching them values, soft loving them when they are right and tough loving them when they are wrong, ignoring whining and drama, not making excuses for them, and demanding that they learn to behave in a civil manner that is respectful of those around them. I understand that some children have special needs, and I accept that, and sympathize with that, but I'm talking about the run of the mill kid who doesn't know right from wrong because they have been told by parents their entire life that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. You don't want them playing violent video games, don't buy them, and forbid it, with consequences. You don't want them to watch inappropriate television, turn it off and forbid it with consequences. You don't want them having bad grades, demand good ones, with consequences. You don't want them being disrespectful, forbid it, with consequences. I spent a lot of years as a public school administrator, most as an elementary school principal, and I could tell you some stories. Your children will love you if you raise them to be good responsible adults, and not if all you ever do is try to make them happy.

OK, I'm off my soapbox. Now all of you who disagree, go ahead and let me have it. I can take it. 29 years in the public schools will make your skin pretty thick. :wave:


No soapbox - IMHO you are absolutely correct! I have stated it in other posts - parents need to do parenting !!!! I will not keep going because you and Oldcoach Ed have said it all.

[Challenger]

I believe that a ban( that included confiscation) on semiautomatic weapons in the US would be " a can of worms" and impossible to enforce. It would cause a reaction from many law abiding citizens that would shock those who think that such a ban would make a differene. Of course, access laws could and should be strenghtened , but IMO would have little or no effect on the problem for the lifetime of anyone reading this post ,if ever. I hope that we can have a civil debate and avoid personal attacks at least on this forum. My personal observations, exprssed herein, are not reflective of my desires if I had unilateral power to change the present situation.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I have one thing to add and it is my opinion only, BUT I believe that God needs to be brought back into this country. We were founded on Christian values, let us all fight to get them back. We need to make our voices loud so they can be heard. Doesn't the squeaky wheel get it's way?

I agree 100% with the above statement. The freedoms provided by our "founding fathers" are exactly what makes the USA what it was in it's "hay day" and I think we already have too many controls on these freedoms. The problem is the moral decay of our society and the lack of responsibility and respect for everything including human life and property. You don't fix that by limiting freedoms you fix that by getting back to family values, morals and respect.

[janmcn]

Things are already changing across the country. Guns are being pulled from shelves, gun shows are being canceled, violent movies are not opening, songs about 'dying young' are not being played, private equity firms are selling their positions in gun manufacturers. There are many ways people are fighting back against this kind of violence.

[2BNTV]

Things are already changing across the country. Guns are being pulled from shelves, gun shows are being canceled, violent movies are not opening, songs about 'dying young' are not being played, private equity firms are selling their positions in gun manufacturers. There are many ways people are fighting back against this kind of violence.

From everything I'm reading, this is true.

There is a big outcry across the nation to bring violence into to some form of control. We have to do something to prevent these type of tradgedy's.

If we do nothing but say that's not going to solve the problem then we are asking for it to be repeated again and again.

So many funerals at a time when people should be happy about the holiday's.

[eweissenbach]

From everything I'm reading, this is true.

There is a big outcry across the nation to bring violence into to some form of control. We have to do something to prevent these type of tradgedy's.

If we do nothing but say that's not going to solve the problem then we are asking for it to be repeated again and again.

So many funerals at a time when people should be happy about the holiday's.

I think the mood of the masses is such that some gun regulation will be addressed, even people like Joe Scarborough, and others with high grades from the NRA are inclined to do something. I fear that it will be too little, too late, but I suppose any move in the right direction is a move in the right direction. Whether anything will be done, either by regulation, or voluntarily by producers of violence in movies, video games and music, is less likely IMO. Also expect some mental health issues to be addressed. A shame that any solutions will be too late for twenty 6-7 year old children and their families. If nothing else, this tragedy may cause many parents to rethink their permissive behavior with their children, and try to pass along some ethics and values. Not all will be so moved, sadly.

[buggyone]

I agree 100% with the above statement. You don't fix that by limiting freedoms you fix that by getting back to family values, morals and respect.

Remember that when the Constitution was written, there were only single shot firearms. The "freedom to bear arms" had an entirely different meaning than with an AR-15 with twin banana magazines taped back to back.

I would really like to know what the poster means precisely by "family values" as it can mean lots of things to different people. Is it the traditional family of Beaver Cleaver having dinner together with Wally and The Beav scared that Dad is going to yell at them or hit them?

[senior citizen]

Everone's thoughts are valuable. When we were raising our children and right after they both "left home" we were told that we had the typical "Leave it to Beaver" type household. This was said by an activity assistant who would bring my elderly mom back to me each day from adult daycare.........he'd visit awhile; we'd invite him to dinner. He was a nice young man; came from a broken home. Everyone sees what a family should be in a different way, based on their frame of reference. When our kids got to be juniors in college, they both thanked us for staying together and having a good family life for them. At that age of 20, they realized, after seeing all the broken homes of some of their friends..........we always ate our meals together in the kitchen....we always went on vacations together and we always were with them each evening, and knew what they watched on television..........so many kids are left alone nowadays with either daycare providers or babysitters.......so they can watch whatever they choose to on t.v.......whether it be violent or not.

When our grandkids were visiting for the long Thanksgiving weekend, they spotted the new Wii games I had purchased for them from amazon.com........such as "INDIANA JONES", "HARRY POTTER".......and on and on........all popular with the elementary school set............originally, I had bought the Wii console a few years ago for my husband (to do the Sports Fitness videos which our adult kids had brought home with them one other visit.......and all seemed to enjoy the exercises; he never used it).........anyway, the machine sits there.

The 8 year old and 11 year old found segments within segments of the Indiana Jones and Harry Potter, etc. wii challenges......that I thought were a little "INTENSE" to say the least.........but they were mesmerized. That's a good word. I can only imagine what teens in these gaming parlors or on the internet "might" get hooked into.

We were superivising ours and called it quits after a spell......

Wii also has dance video games as well as all the exercise and other wii games that are fine............but I can see where video games, as kids get older, might impact on them, esp. if they see really violent ones which turn normal kids into killing machines.

It's a complicated matter involving guns in the wrong hands, violent media and games, plus psychotropic drugs given to kids, which may or may not alter the brain chemistry in a bad way.......look up the facts for Ritilin given to school aged children labeled as hyperactive or A.D.H.D. which is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.

Scary.

We all watched shoot em outs with cowboy t.v. shows, etc........and I can't think of one child or teen murderer from our childhood neighborhood or city.......again, it is complicated...........however, family morals were different back then. No one really preached to us.........we just seemed to KNOW "right from wrong"......go figure.

Another thing I marvel at is that we, as children, walked all over the city into various kinds of "bad" neghborhoods, even in New York City.........and no one ever abducted us..........my husband thinks that back then they had the fear of the law in them.

I don't have an answer.........but times have changed for parents and grandparents alike. Our children also had the freedom to roam, to walk back and forth from school if they wished.......to play in the woods, to walk on the pine trail.....and I never worried.............nowadays, I wouldn't allow it.....as other young parents do not allow it. There are too many questionable type folks out there.

[graciegirl]

When I was in school it was taught that all human behavior could be changed and modified and that children were born as " blank slates". Now much has been learned that certain tendencies and personalities are born with us and can be modified to some degree but there isn't an answer or a solution to all behavior problems and all mental illnesses.

I am worried that the kids in this country who have Asbergers will now have the additional burden of having people fear them when in almost all cases these people are not in anyway a threat to society.

Some mental illnesses are caused by environment, stress,traumatic events and lack of nurture, but most are either genetic or are caused by an imbalance in brain chemistry or brain configuration. We can't let what we see in the movies guide our understanding of mental illness. There are those people with mental illness are a threat to their family and to society and there is no place where they can be safely placed and that is a huge problem. I have read things that said we need to report behaviors but until someone acts or makes a threat it does not become criminal behavior.

There just isn't any pat or easy answer. I cannot think of a single one.

[shcisamax]

Our kids spent their first 8 years in Mexico. I have a very good friend who is a psychologist. When she came to visit, she was amazed how able the kids were able to play independently and find something to do rather than be scheduled to do something. They had no video games. I think they watched Pokomon on TV when it finally hit Mexico. When we returned, all the boys in our area had video games and I was caught in this constant battle with my son about why we didn't have all those games. It was apparent, the parents were in total denial. I found myself asking before a "playdate" (I didn't even know what a play date was) what will they be doing? If the answer was, or my son later told me, video games were part of the experience, I limited his time at that house in the future. It became very difficult because literally ALL the boys were playing video games. I finally broke down and bought the player and a couple games but NEVER ones with violence. I don't know how anyone can't see that watching and participating in violence for play is the most stupid thing you can allow your child to do. And I am not talking about cowboys and indians so please don't draw that correlation. It simply doesn't meet the gory standard that the video games present. Does life imitate art or does art imitate life? I think at this point, we can safely say that while art can imitate life, in these cases, life imitates art. They didn't think up this stuff on their own.

[shcisamax]

I agree with Gracie. This is not a one solution answer. There are many pieces of the puzzle. Mental health has to be looked at, environment has to be looked at, the societal culture has to be looked at. Types of guns released to the general population has to be looked at. None of this will get fixed overnight.

[senior citizen]

Our kids spent their first 8 years in Mexico. I have a very good friend who is a psychologist. When she came to visit, she was amazed how able the kids were able to play independently and find something to do rather than be scheduled to do something. They had no video games. I think they watched Pokomon on TV when it finally hit Mexico. When we returned, all the boys in our area had video games and I was caught in this constant battle with my son about why we didn't have all those games. It was apparent, the parents were in total denial. I found myself asking before a "playdate" (I didn't even know what a play date was) what will they be doing? If the answer was, or my son later told me, video games were part of the experience, I limited his time at that house in the future. It became very difficult because literally ALL the boys were playing video games. I finally broke down and bought the player and a couple games but NEVER ones with violence. I don't know how anyone can't see that watching and participating in violence for play is the most stupid thing you can allow your child to do. And I am not talking about cowboys and indians so please don't draw that correlation. It simply doesn't meet the gory standard that the video games present. Does life imitate art or does art imitate life? I think at this point, we can safely say that while art can imitate life, in these cases, life imitates art. They didn't think up this stuff on their own.

I "hear you". Our daughter and her husband (ditto for our son and his wife) rarely, if ever, watch television.......the older children are kept so busy between school activities, sports, community and church activities and just "playing in the great outdoors".....swimming, kayaking, ice skating, skiing, mountain biking, climbing, you name it....they are OUTDOORS doing it..........when they were really little, they only watched a few selected shows on public television or old reruns of Little House on the Prairie, The Waltons, etc.........our other grandchildren are babies so again, they are not exposed to violence at all.

But, you are correct in your observations.........

p.s. The reason I purchased the stack of Wii games from Amazon, was for some "down time" while they were visiting and they did come in handy on a rainy day.
But in very limited amounts. Grandson had loved all the Indiana Jones leggo sets we got him and they all read the entire series of Harry Potter books...........
Not to mention, the "cartoonish" characters on the Wii boxes didn't hint at the intensity within the game......once one got to various levels. Still they were for kids.

[ugotme]

Unfortunately today there is basically NO social inter-action.
Without sounding like an old fuddy-duddy, growing up we were always outside with our friends. playing whatever games you played in your area. But, we interacted with each other - sometimes laughing sometimes arguing. We "saw" each other and talked to each other.

Today, most kids are cooped up looking at a television - whether it be a program or a video game. When they are bored with that they take out their cell phones and either play another game or text each other. You can not develop social skills through a phone! Life isn't about if you disagree with someone - you hang up!

What to do? I don't know!!!! There is a lot of peer pressure and a lot of "parent pressure" to help kids "fit in." I would love to see kids outside playing but I believe, for the most part, those days are long gone!

[senior citizen]

Unfortunately today there is basically NO social inter-action.
Without sounding like an old fuddy-duddy, growing up we were always outside with our friends. playing whatever games you played in your area. But, we interacted with each other - sometimes laughing sometimes arguing. We "saw" each other and talked to each other.

Today, most kids are cooped up looking at a television - whether it be a program or a video game. When they are bored with that they take out their cell phones and either play another game or text each other. You can not develop social skills through a phone! Life isn't about if you disagree with someone - you hang up!

What to do? I don't know!!!! There is a lot of peer pressure and a lot of "parent pressure" to help kids "fit in." I would love to see kids outside playing but I believe, for the most part, those days are long gone!

Our daughter and son in law keep their kids so busy with extracurricular activities (as mentioned above in another post) it tires me just to think about it......but they have thrived on all the interaction with their peers in school, church, community and adults in their lives.......I don't think she ever lets them sit still......they are always doing something educational or "athletic"........but that's just her style..... Living in a rural area, she feels she has to keep them involved or perhaps they would be glued to the t.v.

When we were kids, we were just like you mention above........out playing all the time. The one or two shows we watched were those such as "Superman" or one on Saturday I remember, "Ramar of the Jungle" and then we'd go out and play all day.

Our kids were born in 1968 and 1971 and also played out all the time , even in the winter time.

When I, myself, noticed the change was when new neighbors with ten year "younger" children moved in. They were driven everywhere, whereas our kids walked to their friends' homes, walked to school and back up the hills or walked to the library and movie theatre in town, etc.
just as we used to do.

The new parents also did allow a lot of video game watching and basically kept the kids "close" to home. They turned out just fine, but I did notice a difference in that they didn't play outside during all four seasons such as ours did. Actually, I think our kids and their friends' generation were the last to play out all day such as you and I did. They are now 44 and 41.

Times did change since I was a kid, that's for sure. We were raised in the 1950's.....born in 1945.

I always say to my husband that he and I can watch a show like DEXTER and obviously we are NOT going to go and stab someone to death.....however, there is an entire generation of kids , home alone, watching all the cable network has to offer.......and then some.

My dad would put on BONANZA or some such show, which wasn't violent and he controlled the t.v. knob; there were no remotes back then.

Nowadays, all of the violent t.v. shows probably would very insidiously creep into kids' psyche.....not necessarily cause ALL OF THEM to act on what they see.......but who knows, in a slightly unbalanced mind, what might happen??? Or, since they see so much of it, maybe it wouldn't phase them one iota.

But for the good news, most of the young parents I know, which are friends of our adult children and old neighbors' children plus our young neices and nephews, DO NOT allow their children to watch much t.v. at all........so there is a parental control of sorts happening........at least with the young parents we know.

But, I know exactly what you mean.........

[shcisamax]

Maybe the pendulum is done swinging in that direction. Decided not to say swinging to the left or the right because it would cause another can of worms :)

[2BNTV]

I see the problem as being three prongged:
1. Ban all weapons of mass destruction as only law enforcement and military should have them.
2. Mental health isues need to be funded and addressed.
3. Violence in our culture needs to be toned down.

I will only address the last issue as I expounded on various threads on the other two points of contention. Today's children need to play more with their imaginations and with learning type toys. They need to be more activities with other children as oppossed to sitting in front of a computer whether hand held etc......

I wish the children of today had the days when we were thrown outside to play in the street as I remember we were always busy playing stickball, ring a levio and other games. We were safe in the neighborhood as the neighbors looked out for us. I think everyone our age misses those day as today's kids need to be entertained from the moment they open their eyes to the time they go to sleep with video games. It's a different world for sure as they need to be watched less something bad will happen to them.

I agree with ugotme in that their social interaction with their peers leaves a lot to be desired. I remember a story when a mother took her adult daughter to lunch and the daughter played with a hand held device throughout dinner instead of interacting with her mother. How sad........

[buggyone]

This is all good stuff and makes sense. However, most here are talking of a family unit where there is a mother and father. Father works and mother stays home preparing meals and cleaning house.

Would you want your daughter to be one of those housewifes who stay home or be a vibrant part of the workforce equal to that of any man? Choices are made according to each person.

How many of us in the Boomer generation (born around 1945-1955) had a mother who worked as an attorney, CEO, or a profession that required her to be equal to any man? If mothers worked, it was a store clerk, secretary, nurse, or teacher.

[Russ_Boston]

Admin - ?

Why does this thread not constitute political discussion? Which is banned on this forum.

We all are saddened by the tragedy last week. But political discussion on this thread about legislation, gun control, censorship etc. will not help and will only divide the many great posters of this site.

IMHO - Please close this thread.

Respectfully,
Russ

[eweissenbach]

Admin - ?

Why does this thread not constitute political discussion? Which is banned on this forum.

We all are saddened by the tragedy last week. But political discussion on this thread about legislation, gun control, censorship etc. will not help and will only divide the many great posters of this site.

IMHO - Please close this thread.

Respectfully,
Russ

Some might say this is not, or perhaps more correctly, should not be a political discussion. Some might say that discussing solutions to deeply troubling problems is a way to heal wounds, and begin a dialogue that may ultimately be solved politically. Some might say that if discussions of this type can be kept civil, they provide an excellent way for people to think through how they might ultimately make a difference, and many of those solutions may well come outside of legislative action. Some might say that if one in not interested in such discussion, one might choose not to click on the thread. And some may not agree with any of these things.

[janmcn]

And some might say that discussing ways to save the lives of our littlest angels in the future must never be a partisan or political issue.

[Taltarzac725]

And some might say that discussing ways to save the lives of our littlest angels in the future must never be a partisan or political issue.

Very well said. This should not be a partisan discussion. It has not seemed to be either.

[shcisamax]

I don't see a political discussion here. I see people trying to noodle what should be done and what are the causes for tragedies that inflict huge holes in the fabric of our society. I would hope that everyone would be on the same side as to wanting to figure out what the problem(s) barrier(s) and solution(s) might be.

[Russ_Boston]

And some might say that discussing ways to save the lives of our littlest angels in the future must never be a partisan or political issue.

Completely agree. But in the end it will turn to gun control issues and then someone will say something about this side not wanting something or that side holding up resolution etc. If the thread stays alive long enough - Just wait.

[Lark7]

Besides, it is not just a gun issue - it is a forum to focus on the violence that permeates our country.

[graciegirl]

Russ, usually you are right, but so far people have been very careful and very restrained on this thread.

All of us, every person who has heard of this, is saddened by it and we all are doing our best to try to learn from it so if we can do something, ANYTHING, so it won't happen again.

It makes me proud to know all of you. I have read every one of your posts and I know you speak from your very hearts.

When wise men (and women) are confronted with new problems, they use the wisdom they have gained from their whole lives and what they have learned from others and from history, and sometimes not even that is enough.

[shcisamax]

Gee everyone is doing just peachy keen not getting into political anything. Why even bring it up.

[2BNTV]

Today is a day of national mourning for the Newtown victims. A moment of silence was held at 9:30 AM.

I would hope and think solutions are going to be implemented to prevent a tradgedy of this magnitude again. I hope we all are the side of angels to protect out little angels.

[DaleMN]

Today is a day of national mourning for the Newtown victims. A moment of silence was held at 9:30 AM.

I would hope and think solutions are going to be implemented to prevent a tradgedy of this magnitude again. I hope we all are the side of angels to protect out little angels.

And then the NRA weighed in on the topic. :ohdear:

[graciegirl]

Four killed, including gunman, in shooting incident in Pennsylvania; three troopers injured - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069042-four-killed-including-gunman-in-shooting-incident-in-pennsylvania-three-troopers-injured?lite)

[buggyone]

News story on now about the NRA proposing armed police officers at every school in the country.

The Orlando Sentinel has a cartoon on the editorial page today of what looks like a maximum security prison with barbed wire, gun turrets, guard towers, searchlights, and a circling helicopter. One person is commenting to another about this is a new elementary school.

The NRA has also proposed doing away with the "gun free zones" by schools so teachers, administrative help, and students could be armed with concealed or open carry weapons. Now, there is a great idea!

[2BNTV]

I find the NRA statements disappointing and disturbing.

Outspoken gun-control advocate New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg called the statement "a shameful evasion of the crisis facing our country."

"Instead of offering solutions to a problem they have helped create, they offered a paranoid, dystopian vision of a more dangerous and violent America where everyone is armed and no place is safe," he said. "Enough. As a country, we must rise above special interest politics."

26 funerals is 26 too many. 20 of them are kids six years old.

Enough!!!!

[Waynecarla]

Very well put,I agree !!!!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

Russ, you tried to warn them.............................

[2BNTV]

Very well put,I agree !!!!!!

Thanks. I had to look up dsytopia.

dystopia - definition of dystopia by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dystopia)

[rubicon]

Some might say this is not, or perhaps more correctly, should not be a political discussion. Some might say that discussing solutions to deeply troubling problems is a way to heal wounds, and begin a dialogue that may ultimately be solved politically. Some might say that if discussions of this type can be kept civil, they provide an excellent way for people to think through how they might ultimately make a difference, and many of those solutions may well come outside of legislative action. Some might say that if one in not interested in such discussion, one might choose not to click on the thread. And some may not agree with any of these things.

eweissenbach: spot on.

My concern hearing of the news was that the media would milk the tragedy for all it was worth in order to fill the 24/7 need news media , talk shows etc need. By doing so they actually marginalize an otherwise serious issue. My second concern is that opportunitist would jump in loaded with an emotional narrative when instead reasoned and honest discussion needed to take place.

The obvious finger pointing would be to gun control or a lack thereof, mental health system and lack thereof, violence on TV, movies, in video games....and should

However the underlying issue is being ignored and that is the lack of restraint and self control that has deteriorated over the last 40 years or so. A lack of self restrain that has been sanctioned by the news media, intellectuals in universities, judges. Civil disobedience has been sanctioned since the days of the war protest. People like Jane Fonda and other hollywood types made it a kool thing. I believe you know where I am going here.

Look at what's kool for young people today. The more misbehaved the better. A clean cut kid can't make it in Hollywood or Nashville. No drugs, tearing up hotels ,risky behaviors make headlines and stars. How else do you explain a Charlie Sheen or Lindsay Lohan.

If there is going to be a dialogue in this country about violence it might be well to begin with a look back at what we have become to accept as normal behavior. In my day a recalcitrant student was one who got caught chewing gum in class.

[buggyone]

eweissenbach: spot on.

My concern hearing of the news was that the media would milk the tragedy for all it was worth in order to fill the 24/7 need news media , talk shows etc need. By doing so they actually marginalize an otherwise serious issue. My second concern is that opportunitist would jump in loaded with an emotional narrative when instead reasoned and honest discussion needed to take place.

The obvious finger pointing would be to gun control or a lack thereof, mental health system and lack thereof, violence on TV, movies, in video games....and should

However the underlying issue is being ignored and that is the lack of restraint and self control that has deteriorated over the last 40 years or so. A lack of self restrain that has been sanctioned by the news media, intellectuals in universities, judges. Civil disobedience has been sanctioned since the days of the war protest. People like Jane Fonda and other hollywood types made it a kool thing. I believe you know where I am going here.

Look at what's kool for young people today. The more misbehaved the better. A clean cut kid can't make it in Hollywood or Nashville. No drugs, tearing up hotels ,risky behaviors make headlines and stars. How else do you explain a Charlie Sheen or Lindsay Lohan.

If there is going to be a dialogue in this country about violence it might be well to begin with a look back at what we have become to accept as normal behavior. In my day a recalcitrant student was one who got caught chewing gum in class.

Well, I believe civil disobedience has been around in the US for a long time. Look at the writings of John Stuart Mill or Ralph Waldo Emerson.

As for clean cut kids not making it in Nashville - I think Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift are pretty clean cut. Yes, there are plenty of others who are not good role models but still some mighty good one.

[Cedwards38]

The rebellious are not limited to the Charlie Sheen and Lindsay Lohan generation. There was James Dean, Marlon Brando, W. C. Fields, Jack Kerouac, Abbie Hoffman, and the list goes on and on. People are people. Always have been, always will be. We have to have rules to govern the welfare of us all.

[kittygilchrist]

gentle reminder: people who cannot discern reality from games are not made that way by the games. Being insane comes from wooky brain chemistry, not electronic images.

[eweissenbach]

gentle reminder: people who cannot discern reality from games are not made that way by the games. Being insane comes from wooky brain chemistry, not electronic images.

I tend to agree to an extent. However people with "wooky brain chemistry" (is that a new clinical diagnosis?) may be influenced by the graphic and violent images and believe that is normal, logical, and acceptable behavior. They may also become desensitized to the violence. There is much about the human brain we simply don't understand.

[Roaddog53]

What I hear when I hear all of you saying how you feel this might be fixed, what I hear is your suffering and anger that this unspeakable tragedy has occurred and like the grown ups we all are we want to prevent it from happening again.

We are united in that. There is no use arguing right now. Wait and vote what your concience tells you is right. This is a democracy.

That is all we can do. And we can pray.

Making each other angry accomplishes absolutely nothing. And voicing your opinion does not change others opinions about guns, mental health, ways to raise children, video games etc. All of these things are contributing factors but us arguing about solutions will not bring solutions.

:bigbow: once again Gracie..very well put. When something unspeakable happens everyone has answers and knee jerk reactions. Those reactions sometimes cause more reactions. Some will say doing nothing is wrong. what is needed is sensible, thought out, democratic solutions that are not caused by emotional individual events.

[Challenger]

:bigbow: once again Gracie..very well put. When something unspeakable happens everyone has answers and knee jerk reactions. Those reactions sometimes cause more reactions. Some will say doing nothing is wrong. what is needed is sensible, thought out, democratic solutions that are not caused by emotional individual events.

Wish I had said that:clap2:

[senior citizen]

This is all good stuff and makes sense. However, most here are talking of a family unit where there is a mother and father. Father works and mother stays home preparing meals and cleaning house.

Would you want your daughter to be one of those housewifes who stay home or be a vibrant part of the workforce equal to that of any man? Choices are made according to each person.

How many of us in the Boomer generation (born around 1945-1955) had a mother who worked as an attorney, CEO, or a profession that required her to be equal to any man? If mothers worked, it was a store clerk, secretary, nurse, or teacher.

It is complicated nowadays. We have educated our daughters and our sons to the max.

However, even the highly educated women who had careers before "baby" arrived on scene..........often choose to be stay at home moms and raise the children to school age, at least. Raising a family is a JOB.

I was a "latch key kid" of the 1950's and always envied my friends who had stay at home moms. Luckily, our circumstances after marriage permitted me to be that stay at home mom........forever. I later ran an at home business, plus helped hubby with any secretarial duties in his business.........all from home.

Our home was always open to all of our childrens' friends from the early years and right through college.......

Our daughter taught in Boston after her marriage and then taught at a community college in Vermont prior to having her first child......but then, until most recently, she chose to be a "stay at home mom" for at least a decade.........now has returned to the workforce, teaching.

Our daughter in law ran a successful business, but also has chosen to be a "stay at home mom".....and her babies are amazing.

All of these are super bright kids , having parental love and guidance from BOTH parents.

Sometimes the women just put their "careers" on hold, all the time knowing that nurturing children is the highest calling.

My mom, especially after she retired, and would travel up to be with us (before moving up here in their retirement) would say how happy she was that I didn't have to "go out to work"..........I felt the same way.

A household can become chaotic with both parents out working and the kids left unsupervised...........however, I realize that many do have to work nowadays and it's a fact of life and the "new normal".

Our kids both wrote us letters when they were in college "thanking us for the way we raised them" after they saw all the broken homes of other friends..........and even at his wedding, our son wrote us yet another thank you note, echoing the same thing.......that everything he had achieved in life (which is a lot) was due to us in his formative years.

Anyway, now that my daughter has returned to "work" it is difficult as the kids have so many many activities...........it's hard to be a Mom and juggle everything.

I know a lot of young parents who are "juggling" and yet I know others who chose to manage with less money and be there 24/7 for the little ones. Either way is just a "choice" nowadays.

When we were "latch key kids" in the 1950's we had to "stay indoors" until our parents came home from work........there was no DAY CARE.
Grandma couldn't always walk over to watch us. Not everyone had cars.

It was NOT FUN to be home alone when everyone else was out playing during days off from school.........so we'd sneak out. Luckily, we did not get into trouble...........but I can see both sides of the issue ...............as always. Can't help it. Life isn't just one way or the other. There are various nuances.

[graciegirl]

It is complicated nowadays. We have educated our daughters and our sons to the max.

However, even the highly educated women who had careers before "baby" arrived on scene..........often choose to be stay at home moms and raise the children to school age, at least. Raising a family is a JOB.

I was a "latch key kid" of the 1950's and always envied my friends who had stay at home moms. Luckily, our circumstances after marriage permitted me to be that stay at home mom........forever. I later ran an at home business, plus helped hubby with any secretarial duties in his business.........all from home.

Our home was always open to all of our childrens' friends from the early years and right through college.......

Our daughter taught in Boston after her marriage and then taught at a community college in Vermont prior to having her first child......but then, until most recently, she chose to be a "stay at home mom" for at least a decade.........now has returned to the workforce, teaching.

Our daughter in law ran a successful business, but also has chosen to be a "stay at home mom".....and her babies are amazing.

All of these are super bright kids , having parental love and guidance from BOTH parents.

Sometimes the women just put their "careers" on hold, all the time knowing that nurturing children is the highest calling.

My mom, especially after she retired, and would travel up to be with us (before moving up here in their retirement) would say how happy she was that I didn't have to "go out to work"..........I felt the same way.

A household can become chaotic with both parents out working and the kids left unsupervised...........however, I realize that many do have to work nowadays and it's a fact of life and the "new normal".

Our kids both wrote us letters when they were in college "thanking us for the way we raised them" after they saw all the broken homes of other friends..........and even at his wedding, our son wrote us yet another thank you note, echoing the same thing.......that everything he had achieved in life (which is a lot) was due to us in his formative years.

Anyway, now that my daughter has returned to "work" it is difficult as the kids have so many many activities...........it's hard to be a Mom and juggle everything.

I know a lot of young parents who are "juggling" and yet I know others who chose to manage with less money and be there 24/7 for the little ones. Either way is just a "choice" nowadays.

When we were "latch key kids" in the 1950's we had to "stay indoors" until our parents came home from work........there was no DAY CARE.
Grandma couldn't always walk over to watch us. Not everyone had cars.

It was NOT FUN to be home alone when everyone else was out playing during days off from school.........so we'd sneak out. Luckily, we did not get into trouble...........but I can see both sides of the issue ...............as always. Can't help it. Life isn't just one way or the other. There are various nuances.

I relate to every single word of your post.

[senior citizen]

I relate to every single word of your post.

Thank you Gracie. I forgot to add that a lot of Dads are "Mr. Mom's" today.

We have a dear friend, young mom, younger than our kids, whose own mother was a working teacher, her dad a lawyer........after graduating college and medical school (via the U.S. Navy) she began having her babies, one each year for three years......then went back to med school for her "specialty" which involved a lot of study and surgery, etc......all the time her husband gladly took on the roll of full time MOM. She always tells me that she couldn't have done it without him. Someone has to supervise the children. She hardly had any time at all to be with her family, as she always states.

They are now out in the South Pacific but we still keep in touch....held her in my arms when she was a newborn baby. Had deep conversations with her while she was still at Brown University , saying that she had that dilemma of knowing she was going on to medical school, yet knowing her biological clock would be ticking if she waited too long to begin her family...........then wondering how she would BALANCE everything.

It's not easy for the working mom or those who go back to college for advanced degrees. I was fortunate to be able to stay at home and the kids always bragged that not only did they have their mom at home but Dad as well, as he had a studio at home and worked from home the entire time they were in school, from K through college.......then he opened a retail establishment..........they were long gone by then. So, it worked for us.

p.s. Vermont allows cottage industry or "at home businesses" ; we lived in a totally residential neighborhood the entire time.
Other artists and craftsmen also worked at home. I'd say we had the best of both worlds..............

p.s. My parents were both factory workers......my mom had to work a lot of "overtime" so dad would do the cooking. They were ahead of their time.

[Russ_Boston]

And then the NRA weighed in on the topic. :ohdear:
As I said it will devolve into political talk sooner or later. You might not (obviously not) agree with the NRA position but why not give us your thoughts on gun control instead of just the frowny face? I'd be interested in your opinon on how to handle guns in our society.

This tragedy has many talking points: gun control; violence in our society from video games, movies etc.; mental health issues; police in schools...

[ugotme]

This tragedy has many talking points: gun control; violence in our society from video games, movies etc.; mental health issues; police in schools...

Isn't that what it really boils down to?

There is really no one single answer - period !

[eweissenbach]

This tragedy has many talking points: gun control; violence in our society from video games, movies etc.; mental health issues; police in schools...

Bingo Russ.

[Russ_Boston]

As far as police in each school I'd say that if it ever comes to that then maybe we need to look at the other issues first.

I'm not even sure that one armed guard in each school would really do the trick. I'm pretty sure that a 'smart' gunman intent on inflicting damage would know how to take out the 'guard' first. To me that is no answer. And what kind of message is that anyway.

Personally I feel that there is no, zero, natta, need for any sort of attack, military style rifle in the hands of any civilian. Rifles? yes, there are many legitimate reasons for hunters, ranchers, sport target etc. But military style semi automatic attack guns? With 20 or more bullet cartridges? IMHO - no! Doesn't solve the whole issue but let's try starting there.

[eweissenbach]

As far as police in each school I'd say that if it ever comes to that then maybe we need to look at the other issues first.

I'm not even sure that one armed guard in each school would really do the trick. I'm pretty sure that a 'smart' gunman intent on inflicting damage would know how to take out the 'guard' first. To me that is no answer. And what kind of message is that anyway.

Personally I feel that there is no, zero, natta, need for any sort of attack, military style rifle in the hands of any civilian. Rifles? yes, there are many legitimate reasons for hunters, ranchers, sport target etc. But military style semi automatic attack guns? With 20 or more bullet cartridges? IMHO - no! Doesn't solve the whole issue but let's try starting there.

Again, we're on the same wave length. Starting somewhere is preferable to doing nothing only to wait for the next tragedy and wringing our hands once again.

[Taltarzac725]

I tend to agree to an extent. However people with "wooky brain chemistry" (is that a new clinical diagnosis?) may be influenced by the graphic and violent images and believe that is normal, logical, and acceptable behavior. They may also become desensitized to the violence. There is much about the human brain we simply don't understand.

I agree in some cases with this like with the Son of Sam whose mind was so messed up he thought dogs were directing his actions. He really sounds off his rocker. But, when these mass murderers plan out carefully their killings like with Virginia Tech, Columbine, Oklahoma City, the Aurora movie theaters, and Sandy Hook, there seems to be something else much worse than bad brain chemistry going on. These people have become evil and seem to know exactly what they want to do.

[travelguy]

as far as guns...all guns...are concerned. take 'em all away. If you are a hunter and feel the need to go out in the woods and kill something then check out a gun like you check out a library book and return it when you are done killing. i grew up in a culture that does not embrace any sort of weaponry in the home; and consequently I am uncomfortable around all guns. In fact we did noat allow our children to play with guns or even visit any friends' homes where there were guns. I just do not get the fascination or necessity with guns.

[manaboutown]

Millennium-Ark: Pic of the Day (http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html)