Solar pool owners

[Happinow]

For those of you have a solar heated pool, has your pool been swimmable over the past few months?? Our pool has gotten too cold to swim in since end of October. We thought we would be able to swim in it longer than that and wonder if our solar heat is working properly. Our house faces west so we get the afternoon sun. Seemed to us it should not have cooled off so fast and not been able to get it back up to a reasonable temp. It hovers around 65 these days.

[shcisamax]

We face north and the temp is around 65 as well.

[RedChariot]

I am interested to hear responses. We just had Jack's solar give us an estimate. The person that came here said they guarantee their Solar heater to heat the water up to 80 degrees. We have not used our pool since mid September. It is unheated and the temp of the water is about 60 degrees. Even if the water was 80 degrees, would you want to come out of the water to air temp in the 50 and 60 range? Mighty chilly. I fear southern FL. is where we private pool lovers belong.

[Roaddog53]

Wow. We don't have solar heat yet. We thought we would wait this winter to see if we would really use it. We too face west and don't even put the solar blanket on it since we were told it is a waste. Our pool I checked today and it was 64! Hasn't got below 62 so far. I would say your system is not working or worth it.

[Happinow]

Not that I want anyone's pool not to be warm but now I know it's not a problem with my solar panels. Jacks solar told us we would be able to swim in our pool 10 months out of the year. I guess I'm disappointed. Although, I would probably not swim in the 60 degree weather but when the days warm up like today I would swim. The solar works well in the summer....the pool stays really nice so we can swim night or day so to me it's worth it.

[jimbo2012]

Folks I have researched this topic in great detail, those that know me are aware that I developed a solar cart with the help of a close friend who is a solar engineer.

I have been talking with him for the past few weeks about solar heating our to be built pool and spa in very near future.

Bottom line is this is very simple to calculate, it is the surface area of the pool as the first part of the puzzle to the sq ft of the panels, not rocket science.

THere is also a flow rate thru the panels to consider, too fast will not allow time to heat, to slow will get it hot but not circulate enough water to have it work.

The basic panels cost about less than $2,000 plus the labor to install. My pool is going to be about 18-20', I'm planning on 4 4X12 panels.

Generally a solar pool install should cost $2500-$3,000, if you can't find anyone at about that price I'll start a new biz.

But folks you need to know where in relation to your roof TRUE south is not a guess but the angle.

The majority of if not all the panels MUST be on the south side, if there's not enough room then you can add east/west facing panels.

If someone told you they go on the west side........well the question is do they know what they are doing.

another issue to be aware of is what is IMO the unprofessional way some have been installed with pipes all over the place like monkey bars, that can be done in much cleaner aesthetically looking way.

One other point, they must be mounted where the entire system is on a slight angle to allow it to drain for freezing.

I just took a system down off a roof in The Villages two weeks ago (I rather not say who installed it) [U can PM me] but it was absolutely level and could not drain.

The sealant was not put in place adequately, and lastly all PVC pipes on a solar system MUST be painted they plastic and most importantly the glue joints break down with the suns UV. This installer did none of that and that is solar install 101.

So down load an app for a compass and see what you have.

Rant over:wave:

[Bogie Shooter]

Jack's Solar installed my pool solar system. He wrote right on my invoice he would guarntee 80 degrees Feb 20th thru October. If not he would come back and put in more panels. Last year we used the solar cover and the system beginning Feb 1 and the water was 80 plus degrees.
The use of the cover does a good job of not losing heat over night. I don't think any system without a cover can maintain warm water when the overnight temps get into the 50's or 40's.
Jack's Solar has an excellant reputation here in The Villages. I suggest if you are not satisfied to give Jack a chance to fix any problems you may have.

[ijusluvit]

I think it's a reasonable conclusion that solar heat will not keep a pool at 80 degrees or higher October through March unless the solar panels are at, or close to direct southern exposure. Also, quality companies like Jack's Solar will recommend adding as many panels as there is room on the roof to increase the pool temp. That is very good advice.

I have a pool/spa with gas heat assist. Because Jack put 50% more panels than required on my south roof, (six years ago), my pool stays in the high 80's except in January and February. In those months I use the gas assist for about 20 minutes to heat my spa to 99 degrees, and I use the spa most days. When I shut the spa off that warmer water mixes back into the pool and helps maintain the 83 pool setting. It is very rare when the gas heater kicks on to warm the pool only. That has occurred only when we have had subfreezing temps at night for several days. Before solar heat, I had once had a winter gas bill of more than $500. My highest one since has been about $150. I haver never used a pool cover.

There is another factor as well. The control systems and timer for the solar unit must be designed to maximize the solar heated water. This is another important reason to have an expert like Jack design and build the system.

[MACH7SS]

First, we wanted to buy in the Villages but opted to purchase near Winter Garden to be closer to our son's who live in Orlando. That out of the way, here's my experience with our solar unit. We have six 12 by 2 Heliocol panels mounted on the south side. We have black PVC from the filter across the east side of the roof over to the south side. We have been between 70 and 80 degrees since Halloween dropping to 67 when we had 3 days of clouds and rain. We have reached as high as 86 when we had several days of warmer temps. If I divert to the spa only on a clear sunny day over 60 degrees, the spa will heat to between 90 and 98. The weather prediction is for warmer temps by mid-week so I expect to be in the mid-80's by the weekend again.

[shcisamax]

Are you saying if you don't use the pool cover, you cannot expect to have the water temp close to 80 during this time of year? I wasn't really paying attention because we just haven't been wanting to go in the water but the water never gets up to anything near that. Until this thread, I forgot what our conversation was about maintaining close to 80 except Dec-Feb but am beginning to think the seven panels on the west side of the house are not sufficient for the 35' x 10" pool. Think I need to call Jack.

[keithwand]

Our pool temp hovers at 65 degrees and we do not use the cover as it is ugly.
We also have 2 small dogs that don't like the water but might try and walk on the cover and fall in and drown trying to get out.
This time of year we consider the pool a water feature.
We face West and have 10 panels facing West and 2 panels facing South.
This week I will bump up the setting as the weather will be really nice. Yesterday before it rained the pool was almost 70 degrees.
Time to blow up the rafts again!

[kittygilchrist]

Justlovit and Jimbo, Thank you! I shall follow your advice! I will have great southern roofline. Will be calling on Jack, asking for pipes to run through the house instead of around and getting 1.5X number of panels or more. If I missed anying, chime in!
Kitty
I think it's a reasonable conclusion that solar heat will not keep a pool at 80 degrees or higher October through March unless the solar panels are at, or close to direct southern exposure. Also, quality companies like Jack's Solar will recommend adding as many panels as there is room on the roof to increase the pool temp. That is very good advice.

I have a pool/spa with gas heat assist. Because Jack put 50% more panels than required on my south roof, (six years ago), my pool stays in the high 80's except in January and February. In those months I use the gas assist for about 20 minutes to heat my spa to 99 degrees, and I use the spa most days. When I shut the spa off that warmer water mixes back into the pool and helps maintain the 83 pool setting. It is very rare when the gas heater kicks on to warm the pool only. That has occurred only when we have had subfreezing temps at night for several days. Before solar heat, I had once had a winter gas bill of more than $500. My highest one since has been about $150. I haver never used a pool cover.

There is another factor as well. The control systems and timer for the solar unit must be designed to maximize the solar heated water. This is another important reason to have an expert like Jack design and build the system.

[billethkid]

I don't care who the installer is when they say they "gurantee" 10 months use one should ask a whole bunch more questions.

How many panels are required VS how many any particular roof will allow.
As was stated in a previous post, surface area....the bigger the pool the more heat loss/gain.
With a cover or not? Ugly or not, pool covers are a must if one is to maximize use of the pool in the cooler months.

Once temps start going below the high 60's at night and during the day it is almost impossible for the solar to keep a pool swimable let alone 80 degrees.

We made sure we put in an extra panel or two morw than the calculation reccomends. We also have a gas back up heater. And we use a pool cover during Dec and Jan.

We keep the gass heater set at 80 so as to never lose a warm base temperature. December through January the heater runs for an hour or two each morning.

I keep the solar temp set at the maximum (104 on our controller)....it will never reach that temperature in non summer months and assures maximum heating per outside temperatures.

In my opinion the statement of being able to use the pool 10 out of 12 months or guarantee 80 degrees are nothing more than tip the scale in the direction of making the sale. Too many variables to makw such definitive statements.

btk

PS don't forget to put your solar system in bypass during those periods when the temperatures go below 38 degrees for prolonged periods of time to keep water from being delivered to the panels when the pool pump is running.

[NECHFalcon68]

On the two recent mornings where the outside temp hit 35, our pool water was 76-78 with the pool cover, prior to the solar kicking in, which usually happens about 9AM on a sunny day.

All 6 of our panels face south, Jack's installed, and his guarantee was 80 degree water from Feb 15 to Dec 1, if we use the pool cover.

If we want warmer water in the Dec-Feb time frame, we can put on the heater (electric), but it wont have to work as hard to bring the temp up as the solar is doing most of the work on sunny days.

But then, we dont need to get in the water when the outside temp is below 70...

[jimbo2012]

We face West and have 10 panels facing West and 2 panels facing South.
This week I will bump up the setting as the weather will be really nice. Yesterday before it rained the pool was almost 70 degrees.
Time to blow up the rafts again!

? why are 10 panels on the west.

I would think you miss a big part of the solar gain until later in the day, if the panels don't fit on the south, the next choice is east second choice is west from what I understand.

[keithwand]

You are right.
We had room for 5 on the South and the installer did not want to use extra pipe to connect to the others on the west side so installed 10 panels on the West.
Said it would also not look good.
Since the pool would not warm up in the fall 2 panels were added.
You guessed it.
2 on the South and a whole bunch of pipe almost what I had asked for in the first place.
IDIOTS.
My neighbor is up to 25 panels on the North and no heat; go figure.

[jimbo2012]

My neighbor is up to 25 panels on the North and no heat; go figure.

If that was done by a contractor, he should have his butt sued.

Talk about doing stuff wrong maybe he was looking to heat the panels on moon light :1rotfl:

[skyguy79]

Talk about doing stuff wrong maybe he was looking to heat the panels on moon light :1rotfl:I was considering doing just that myself, but my neighbors wouldn't rent me roof space for the extra panels needed! :1rotfl:

[Golfingnut]

We have 4 Twelve foot panels on the south side and 2 ten foot panels on the east. Even with that, we do not expect to swim year round, but enjoy having the pool at around 88 to 90 degrees for 9 plus months a year. When the day time temp is 60 degrees or less, we only use the hot tub. I would not use the pool when the air temps are at or below 60 degrees even if I could have 90 degree water temp in the pool. The variation is too great for me. Jack's was our choice after a detailed complex research for solar. They were not the cheapest, but they were top of the line quality with the material they use and their workers were polite and professional.

[skyguy79]

We have 4 Twelve foot panels on the south side and 2 ten foot panels on the east. Even with that, we do not expect to swim year round, but enjoy having the pool at around 88 to 90 degrees for 9 plus months a year. When the day time temp is 60 degrees or less, we only use the hot tub. I would not use the pool when the air temps are at or below 60 degrees even if I could have 90 degree water temp in the pool. The variation is too great for me. Jack's was our choice after a detailed complex research for solar. They were not the cheapest, but they were top of the line quality with the material they use and their workers were polite and professional.We pretty much get the same upper temperatures of 88-91º for about the same 9-10 month period. The only difference is that we had (8) 12.5 panels SW facing installed by Jack's.

http://greenbellenergy.com/wpimages/wp99d50ebd_05_06.jpg
This Post Solar Powered

[Villages Kahuna]

Jack's Solar is the best, by far. I've been a happy owner for six years.

The key to maintaining swimmable temperatures in the winter months is the use of the floatable solar cover on your pool. If you use that, I agree that you can achieve 75-degree temps in the winter months on solar alone.

[Villages Kahuna]

Are you saying if you don't use the pool cover, you cannot expect to have the water temp close to 80 during this time of year? I wasn't really paying attention because we just haven't been wanting to go in the water but the water never gets up to anything near that. Until this thread, I forgot what our conversation was about maintaining close to 80 except Dec-Feb but am beginning to think the seven panels on the west side of the house are not sufficient for the 35' x 10" pool. Think I need to call Jack.
If you don't use the pool cover, I think you'd have a tough time maintaining 80-degrees, almost regardless of how many panels are installed.

Another thing to consider is the amount of water you lose thru evaporation during the cold, dry winter months. Without the cover, my pool looks lie a San Francisco fog bank in the mornings. That's all (expensive) "lost" water you'll have to replace.

[kimball]

Folks I have researched this topic in great detail, those that know me are aware that I developed a solar cart with the help of a close friend who is a solar engineer.

I have been talking with him for the past few weeks about solar heating our to be built pool and spa in very near future.

Bottom line is this is very simple to calculate, it is the surface area of the pool as the first part of the puzzle to the sq ft of the panels, not rocket science.

THere is also a flow rate thru the panels to consider, too fast will not allow time to heat, to slow will get it hot but not circulate enough water to have it work.

The basic panels cost about less than $2,000 plus the labor to install. My pool is going to be about 18-20', I'm planning on 4 4X12 panels.

Generally a solar pool install should cost $2500-$3,000, if you can't find anyone at about that price I'll start a new biz.

But folks you need to know where in relation to your roof TRUE south is not a guess but the angle.

The majority of if not all the panels MUST be on the south side, if there's not enough room then you can add east/west facing panels.

If someone told you they go on the west side........well the question is do they know what they are doing.

another issue to be aware of is what is IMO the unprofessional way some have been installed with pipes all over the place like monkey bars, that can be done in much cleaner aesthetically looking way.

One other point, they must be mounted where the entire system is on a slight angle to allow it to drain for freezing.

I just took a system down off a roof in The Villages two weeks ago (I rather not say who installed it) [U can PM me] but it was absolutely level and could not drain.

The sealant was not put in place adequately, and lastly all PVC pipes on a solar system MUST be painted they plastic and most importantly the glue joints break down with the suns UV. This installer did none of that and that is solar install 101.

So down load an app for a compass and see what you have.

Rant over:wave:

All this mumbo jumbo aside, if you have a propely sized solar system it will heat your pool to an acceptable temperature from March to October. If you want to swim in Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb suggest you augment the solar with a gas heater. It's got nothing to do with anything but the weather in the winter months.

[jimbo2012]

I don't think U need gas to augment a solar array, if it is sized correctly for a given temp.

But do you want to go swimming and get out of a pool wet in 55 and under degrees, it's cold on your skin.

So if you design the panels to give you 80 water temp at 60-65 air temp it's very doable with solar. This design should include a solar cover.

That being said a gas heater is about $2,000 installed I think and if you're in an area without natural gas add the cost of a propane tank, how much will additional panels cost to do the same.

Of course with gas U increase you're carbon footprint;)

[graciegirl]

If you don't use the pool cover, I think you'd have a tough time maintaining 80-degrees, almost regardless of how many panels are installed.

Another thing to consider is the amount of water you lose thru evaporation during the cold, dry winter months. Without the cover, my pool looks lie a San Francisco fog bank in the mornings. That's all (expensive) "lost" water you'll have to replace.

I have been listening to pool discussions here for five years and everyone I know agrees with you.

In the winter, pools are difficult and expensive to keep swimmable.

[shcisamax]

I never considered swimming in the winter months when we built the pool. Who wants to get out into cold weather. We have solar and gas but are not heating the pool. Might use it to kickstart in the spring. It is still nice to look out on it in the morning. The temp is 65 so no fog here :)

[NECHFalcon68]

I was in my pool yesterday afternoon. Water temp was 86, and I am not using the cover nor the heater. Gotta love the solar panels!
I will probably put the cover on tonite, as the water temp will drop over the next few days when the daytime ambient slides below 75.

[jimbo2012]

What is your panel config and size of pool?

[shcisamax]

Wow. 86!!!!! We don't use the cover nor the heat and ours right now is 72. Our lanai faces north...not great for winter but so welcome in the summer.. 7 panels on west side.

[Golfingnut]

For those of you have a solar heated pool, has your pool been swimmable over the past few months?? Our pool has gotten too cold to swim in since end of October. We thought we would be able to swim in it longer than that and wonder if our solar heat is working properly. Our house faces west so we get the afternoon sun. Seemed to us it should not have cooled off so fast and not been able to get it back up to a reasonable temp. It hovers around 65 these days.

We have been swimming all week with temps in the low to mid 80's. That is with water solar only.

[skyguy79]

I was in my pool yesterday afternoon. Water temp was 86, and I am not using the cover nor the heater. Gotta love the solar panels!
I will probably put the cover on tonite, as the water temp will drop over the next few days when the daytime ambient slides below 75.Wow, I wish our pool got up to 86. The highest we've been up to is 82 this past week when the high air temp got up to 80+. We have a pool that holds appx. 11,700 gals. of water and (6) 4x12.5 + (2) 4x10.5 panels.

[NECHFalcon68]

What is your panel config and size of pool?

Probably smaller than most, about 8000 gallons, irregular shape but about 24x9 at its widest, depth 3-1/2 to 6 ft.
6 panels all facing south.

[l2ridehd]

I use a combination of solar and gas. Pool is small, 12 X 28 and 3 ft to 5 ft deep. Solar alone will hold it at around 75 using the cover. When using it in the winter months, the solar and gas will keep it at 88 degrees pretty easy.