Sumter County Support for Nightly Villages Entertainment

[villages07]

There was a brief mention in the Daily Sun about an item on the Sumter County Commissioners board meeting agenda .... about a grant application to support nightly entertainment at the 2 Sumter County Town Squares... Lake Sumter and Brownwood.

I did a little digging on the Sumter County Commissioners website, located the agenda item and supporting documents. It's under Section E Contracts and Agreements, item #2

http://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/Files/AgendaCenter/Agendas/135/01222013.html

Anyway, it appears that the Villages applied to The Sumter County Tourism Development Council for a grant to help support nightly entertainment at LSL and Brownwood for period from 1/22-9/30/2013 (end of the fiscal year). The grant is for $60K with a $50K match by the Villages. The grant is justified by saying the nightly entertainment brings in many visitors, promotes the county, and generates tourist tax revenue.

Hmmm, this is a clever way to help underwrite the expense of nightly entertainment which we have always been told was paid for by the commercial businesses and the Developer.

Now, all citizens of Sumter County (not just Villagers) will contribute via our tax payments to the county. I am assuming, but have not verified, that the Tourist Council grant funds come from county tax revenues and not some state or federal source.

Hopefully, this will generate some thoughtful discussion and not turn into a flame the Developer tirade. The good news is there is a plan to continue entertainment. The bad news is we (and all citizens of Sumter) will indirectly pay part of the bill.

[mickey100]

Well, I guess we should have seen that coming.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Not a suprise to me. If there is a grant that the developer can apply for to defer cost why wouldn't they?

[Sleeper]

Doubt this is the first year for souce of funding...."he" is a sharp business man!

[villages07]

Doubt this is the first year for souce of funding...."he" is a sharp business man!

Actually, somewhere in all the documents it did indicate that this is the first year for this type of grant funding.

But, no doubt, not the last.

[DandyGirl]

I don't mind contributing to the cost of the entertainment. It's still cheaper than going to a night club to get live entertainment.

[villagerjack]

Sounds OK. to me. The entertainment is available to everyone so whats the fuss? In the end if more rateables are attracted by the entertainment it probably lowers taxes for all residents. Do you know if this covers the entire cost of the bands playing in 2 squares 7 nights a week? If Sumter has 60,000 residents it would be about a dollar a year or 2 cents a week fir each resident?

[Uptown Girl]

Wait... ALL grants come from our tax money, so we are funding all sorts of things, whether we are aware of them or not, partake of them or not, or like them or not.
As this grant money is there for the asking, I don't see the problem.
If I were the Developer and saw that this was now available, I'd give it a shot, why not? It's not wrong or deceitful to do so.

We know the Developer is not legally bound to provide entertainment. That they want to make this a continuing thing AND keep providing jobs for musicians (in a wholesome atmosphere, I might add) is a very cool thing in my book.

[mickey100]

I'm not sure the number of visitors/taxes generated would be much different without the entertainment. But not for us to decide. Hopefully the legislators will spend the money in a way that is best for the majority of their constituents.

[aln]

While the developer starts all this, it befalls us and the businesses to keep it rolling.
If the businesses can get some help, I say great.
Just like us as residents should be mindful of turning off lights in public access areas if we're the last to leave, turning off water in rest rooms picking up after ourselves in parks & downtown etc etc.

[Cisco Kid]

I sure wish I could remove all the crap off my tax bill I don't use or want the money to go too. But then I am sure they know best for me. :1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I sure wish I could remove all the crap off my tax bill I don't use or want the money to go too. But then I am sure they know best for me. :1rotfl::1rotfl:

Sell your place - that'll fix it! :shocked:

:pepper2: :jester:

Bill :)

[billethkid]

the developer sold the entrtainment segment of TV to one of the bands and wife (Vesco)...they ran it before the sale (developer insider).

As discussed on previous threads on the subject/rumor of "no entertainment on the squares in 2013"....the entertainment was obviously subsidized by the developer for obvious marketing purposes.

It is now a for profit, so called privately ownwd business with a much different objective....the profitability of their business!!! And like many other businesses do they will pursue funding from any source possible to increase their bottom line.

They will eliminate things like they did parades that did not turn a profit (another developer subsidized activity).

There are very many more activities that are sponsored/subsidized by the developer that will be privitized as build out is approached. Which simply means additional changes to things we have become accustomed to being a part of TV Lifestyle........as long as the developer was or remained involved.

As there have been many changes in the 9 years we have been here and events we used enjoy have been eliminated and more will be looking forward.

TV will still be a no equal place to live......even without the developer subsidized niceties.

btk

[graciegirl]

Not a suprise to me. If there is a grant that the developer can apply for to defer cost why wouldn't they?

The entertainment is no longer owned by The Developer. It has been sold to the Vescos.

Please read Billy's explanation above. I should have read it before I replied.

[NotGolfer]

The Morse Family are business people. They aren't in the "business" to give us free hand-outs! Grants have been around for a long time and this is an excellant way to subsidize _______(fill in the blank).

We have a family member who has a hereditary degenerative disease. This person relies on grants to have a home, a full-time caregiver and more. I see nothing wrong in applying for grants when one qualifies. This person has to re-apply each year.

If we didn't have the entertainment....would there be the crowds every night?? Doubt it. I personally know folks who live in retirement communities from outside T.V. who come over to listen, dance, shop and eat in the restaurants. On family I can think of live in Tavares. These are just one example........

[Cisco Kid]

Sell your place - that'll fix it! :shocked:

:pepper2: :jester:

Bill :)

That the 5 year plan, down size.
Maybe rent for a few years.
Then make the move to TV

[Cisco Kid]

The love reading about " The Family " on here.
If I ever see " The family " do I have to look down, or cross over to the other side of the street.
Where can I contact "The Family"
I would like to ask the to come up here and run Illinois for awhile.
We are FUBAR

[cquick]

I would think a portion of the amenity fees paid monthly by the residents of The Villages would be enough to cover the entertainment. After all, it's a big part of the advertising for new residents by the developer.....this is not a flame I promise!

[JeffAVEWS]

I'm not sure the number of visitors/taxes generated would be much different without the entertainment. But not for us to decide. Hopefully the legislators will spend the money in a way that is best for the majority of their constituents.

If Haagen Dazs only sells 100 ice cream cones at $4 a pop it's $10,220 in tax revenue a year! Ok, the State gets most of it, but the county gets it share. How many drinks do you suppose are sold around the square while there is entertainment? This is seed money for the county, they will do very well on the investment.

[OldDave]

This agreement is between Sumter County and The Villages (the contractor). There is no mention of some third party that has purchased the entertainment. Now perhaps the Villages has made an arrangement by which the third party coordinates all the entertainment, but if TV didn't own this, they could not enter into an agreement with the county for this grant.

Also, to the suggestion that this grant will somehow lower your taxes. If you believe that, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell you.

There is no way you will find your assessments from the Villages going down over something this tiny in the budget. AND since you're a tax payer in Sumter County (if you are) then your taxes will actually go up to help pay for this, along with the few other people living in the county, but not TV.

Do I think this is a bad thing? No. Clearly a huge number of people enjoy this service, and it seems in large part to help create the lifestyle that is TV. Probably not something I'm going to use very often, but still pretty cool. This should help spread the cost around which will make it more likely to last, but the only money savings will be for the developer who will now have help paying for it.

[Bonny]

It works for me.

[billethkid]

relative to who owns the entertainment it IS the Vescos. They purchased it from the developer.

While I do not know, I suspect their is an ability in their agreement how to use "TV" in their advertising, applications, et al.

Correct, there is no third party...the Vescos and the County = 2.

btk

[Patty55]

The love reading about " The Family " on here.
If I ever see " The family " do I have to look down, or cross over to the other side of the street.
Where can I contact "The Family"
I would like to ask the to come up here and run Illinois for awhile.
We are FUBAR

I saw "THE FAMILY" a few days ago at the Colony Publix, they appear very normal. (Aside from having to kneel and kiss their rings)

[OldDave]

Hey, I have no dog in this fight, and really don't care. But if you look at the links below someone provided, everything mentioned is in the name of The Villages. Just pointing that out. What it means, I don't know.

[Grannynance]

So who has who in their hip pocket? Just a few months ago on this site people were afraid that outsiders would over take brown wood and that there would be a lot of so called bad people roaming the streets. Well it seems that some of the tax money that will be spent will come from all residents of Sumter not only the villages . To say that buioder is a wise man is more than correct his aim is to make money and get any way he can. Like build a road and then have someone maintain it for ever, in the long run who puts out the most money. Take the two large signs on 44 are they their so the village residents know where to shop, eat, and dance? Do you think he is worried about food stores or selling more houses? Some day the family will be gone (if you could find them now) then what? Just my two cents thoughts

[ilovetv]

The live music and dancing is the lifeblood of retail, bar-restaurant, and market-night kiosk businesses around the three town squares.

Don't you remember what has happened to almost all downtowns in the USA when there is no retail left or if they close at 5:00, and if you go to one of the few thriving bar-restaurants in the ghost-town downtown, you feel like you need a Brinks truck and guards to deposit you directly into the front door so you don't have to walk in crime-infested parking decks and lots?

If not for the live music and dancing every night, I'm pretty sure that the stores and restaurants would be closed after 4:00 p.m. Translation: Geriatric Estates, Florida.

I think it's reasonable to expect that at some point, retailers/restaurant associations would form to carry on the tradition that launched TV town squares into being three true, hometown downtowns where you can go safely any time you want, from sun-up till midnight.

[blueash]

I may have bad information, but I have been told that the developer collects a percentage of all sales in the squares. If we are talking 10% and we assume that on an average night there is 2000 dollars spent per square or 5 dollars spent by 400 people as a result of increased traffic from the entertainment which is likely a low estimate, he makes 200/day extra. I don't know how the alcohol sales, and the market night sales figure in that. With two squares in Sumter county that is 400/d times 350 with some days cancelled thus about 140,000 in additional income. If my numbers are off, or way off, make whatever adjustments are needed but it seems that he profits from the extra traffic. This does not take into account the marketing value or the rental of stores value. If you have any question as to whether entertainment increases the shopper traffic in the squares, just compare the crowds daytime vs evening. Looking at the Sumter county website, it seems the Tourist Council gets its money from the 2% tax on rentals/hotels. It then spends its money 40% for event grants and 60% for capital improvements. According the Council's online grant application the amount available is determined by the number of beds which are occupied as a result of the activity. http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1844

Interestingly the language of the rules says the money from the county must be matched 50/50 by the grantee. And the grantee must be a non-profit. However this contract has the county providing 60K while the Vescos are providing 50K. It would be interesting to see the application and the reports which are required from the grantee showing how they spent the money. I have emailed the country asking where those documents can be seen online. So the money is coming from the occupancy tax not the homeowner.
While there may be more legalese somewhere, it is not clear how the Villages qualifies as a non-profit nor why the 50/50 rule was not enforced.

[jbdlfan]

I too, have no dog in this fight, living in Marion County, but if I still lived in Sumter County and did not live in The Villages, I would have a serious problem supplementing activities in and around The Villages. The folks in Lake Pan, Bushnell, Webster and other parts of South Sumter won't see any benefit from this. As a matter of fact, many locals that have been born and raised here, carry a deep resentment for the way their county has been changed. Don't care too much, just saying......

[batman911]

We will all pay regardless of which funds are used. If the vendors pay, they will raise prices to cover the cost. If the developer pays, the cost of homes will be raised to cover the cost. There is no free ride.

[ilovetv]

I too, have no dog in this fight, living in Marion County, but if I still lived in Sumter County and did not live in The Villages, I would have a serious problem supplementing activities in and around The Villages. The folks in Lake Pan, Bushnell, Webster and other parts of South Sumter won't see any benefit from this. As a matter of fact, many locals that have been born and raised here, carry a deep resentment for the way their county has been changed. Don't care too much, just saying......

Doesn't everyone in the county benefit from the increased sales tax collected when the retailers and bar-restaurants are open, operating and thriving 7 nights per week?.....

.....And when people come into town specifically to see a movie or have dinner, the free live entertainment and retailers open gives them reason to stay and spend more on drinks and shopping, instead of just going home??

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=blueash;614404]I may have bad information, but I have been told that the developer collects a percentage of all sales in the squares. I

That is how business is run in certain areas such as malls. It is customary...everywhere in this country. I don't shop in some areas because I KNOW the prices are higher because of the customary percentage given to the owner of the buildings. Many Business owner decide to rent outside of such areas because they can keep their retail prices lower, but they sacrifice the high volume walk in business that a place like the villages town centers generate.

[blueash]

Further review of this document, http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1844
Go down to page 30 and you will see the budget of the Tourist Development Tax 5 year Plan. Expenses planned for 2012-13, 13-14,14-15, and 15- 16 all show 60,000 to go to The Villages Sumter Landing/Brownwood entertainment. So this IS a recurring item and for most of those years represents over 1/3 of the total spending on "Promotion/Advertising/Single Events/Reoccuring Events"

Additionally there is a 10,000 per year allocation for advertsing with The Villages Media Outlet. The contract is between the county and "The Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc" and notifications go to Barbara Vesco for the Contractor with title Director Entertainment/Special events. There is nothing in this contract to indicate that the Vescos independantly own anything rather that they direct or manage it.

[downeaster]

[QUOTE=blueash;614404]I may have bad information, but I have been told that the developer collects a percentage of all sales in the squares. I

That is how business is run in certain areas such as malls. It is customary...everywhere in this country. I don't shop in some areas because I KNOW the prices are higher because of the customary percentage given to the owner of the buildings. Many Business owner decide to rent outside of such areas because they can keep their retail prices lower, but they sacrifice the high volume walk in business that a place like the villages town centers generate.

Thanks for clarifying that Gracie. A lot of people have complained about the landlord (Developer) getting a percentage of the net or gross but that is business as usual. The tenant is aware of that when the lease is signed. It is probably the one business expense the tenant can predict over the term of the lease. Claiming a business failed because the rent was too high doesn't make sense. Businesses usually fail because of any number of other reasons.

[jbdlfan]

Doesn't everyone in the county benefit from the increased sales tax collected when the retailers and bar-restaurants are open, operating and thriving 7 nights per week?.....

.....And when people come into town specifically to see a movie or have dinner, the free live entertainment and retailers open gives them reason to stay and spend more on drinks and shopping, instead of just going home??

Let's see, how much of that money is spent on projects not directly affecting TV? How many of the county gov. seats are occupied by those involved with TV? I realize the growth is directly due to TV, but the money stays there also. If I was paying taxes in Bushnell, like my daughter, and my money is going to help subsidize the partying of retired folks, I'd be a bit upset. It's typical around here, "I want it now and I want it free!"

[LndLocked]

As a general rule ..... monies "granted" by "Tourist Development" agencies come from hotel / motel "bed taxes" Those are taxes / fees tacked on to the cost of a hotel room. Given the fact that Sumter Co. does not have a whole heck of a lot of motel room / beds .... it would seem that funding must come for multiple sources within the county. Exactly what those are ... I do not know.

While you can make an argument that entertainment in LSL & Brownwood Sq's promotes the overall economy in Sumter Co. .... It is an EXTREME stretch (imo) to think that it promotes "tourism" which should be the charge of a tourist development agency. As opposed to a "Economic" Development agency, which Sumter Co has.

[ROCKETMAN]

I am not very good at math but i think that comes out to $164.00 a night per square. 730 nights divided in $120,000. that wouldn't pay for a disc jockey on his first night. $120,000 figure was in a different article i read earlier.

[Barefoot]

If I was paying taxes in Bushnell, like my daughter, and my money is going to help subsidize the partying of retired folks, I'd be a bit upset. It's typical around here, "I want it now and I want it free!"

Your daughter in Bushnell may have children in school. Or may benefit from "the system" in some other way. I personally don't mind paying school taxes one bit. In our retirement community we all pay taxes to support the Florida school system, and most of us don't have children in school. Taxes go into a big pot and then the money is doled out in appropriate ways (we hope).

[jbdlfan]

Your daughter in Bushnell may have children in school. Or may benefit from "the system" in some other way. I personally don't mind paying school taxes one bit. In our retirement community we all pay taxes to support the Florida school system, and most of us don't have children in school. Taxes go into a big pot and then the money is doled out in appropriate ways (we hope).

Property taxes for schools are a totally different animal. When you take sales tax money to support something like entertainment on the squares, that is ridiculous. Come on, really, if we can't afford to pay for our own music, should others....

[jbdlfan]

And just as an added note, if anybody drives through southern Sumter County, you could find a better way to spend that money. If it is to promote tourism or the such, why not throw money at the battlefield area or Lake Pan area? People are coming to TV whether we have music on the square or not. To me, it's just a selfish waste of money!!!!!

[PJOHNS2654]

As a general rule ..... monies "granted" by "Tourist Development" agencies come from hotel / motel "bed taxes" Those are taxes / fees tacked on to the cost of a hotel room. Given the fact that Sumter Co. does not have a whole heck of a lot of motel room / beds .... it would seem that funding must come for multiple sources within the county. Exactly what those are ... I do not know.

While you can make an argument that entertainment in LSL & Brownwood Sq's promotes the overall economy in Sumter Co. .... It is an EXTREME stretch (imo) to think that it promotes "tourism" which should be the charge of a tourist development agency. As opposed to a "Economic" Development agency, which Sumter Co has.

There are many rentals in TV that pay that so called "Bed Tax."

[LndLocked]

There are many rentals in TV that pay that so called "Bed Tax."

I can find no evidence to support that .... can you document it for me?

[mickey100]

And just as an added note, if anybody drives through southern Sumter County, you could find a better way to spend that money. If it is to promote tourism or the such, why not throw money at the battlefield area or Lake Pan area? People are coming to TV whether we have music on the square or not.

I agree - people may enjoy the entertainment at the Squares, but its unreasonable to think that is the motivating reason they come to The Villages instead of going somewhere else. Entertainment on the squares is a small part of what The Villages is all about.

And I don't agree with comparing taxes to provide entertainment to well off people in a retirement community, to paying school taxes . School taxes are for the good of the community in a civilized society. Taxes to pay for entertainment 365 days/year is not in that league at all.

With my County Resident hat on, I personally think that money could be spent in a more judicious manner - surely there are parks or trails or some sort of event that could be promoted to bring in new tourism? All this grant does is subsidize tourism that would occur with or without the grant i.e. its basically a handout to The Villages, not a tourism promoter.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I can find no evidence to support that .... can you document it for me?

Read about it here -----> http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800034.pdf

Here's the document that defines the additional surcharge rates by county: http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2013/dr15dss.pdf

Bill :)

[LndLocked]

Read about it here -----> http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2009/gt800034.pdf

Here's the document that defines the additional surcharge rates by county: http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/2013/dr15dss.pdf

Bill :)

Those are both "sales" taxes that are collected by the state and remitted to individual counties. They do apply to hotel / motel beds and practically every other type of short term rental (less than 6 months). They make these transactions subject to sales tax at the same rate as any other "sales" transaction. The first you list is the State of Fla's 6%, the second is individual counties "discretionary" tax. Sumter Co is 1% which brings the total amount of sales tax on these taxable transactions within the county to 7%. They would be remitted to the state as a basic sales tax collection and the state (or the county the state sent their discretionary portion too) would have no way to know that these specific monies were derived from these short term rentals. If Sumter County shares "sales" tax revenue (of all types) with their "Tourist Development" agency, I do not know.

Neither of those are a "bed" tax which is levied by counties and is traditionally used for tourism development by that counties Tourist Development agency. If you look on a receipt for spending the night in almost any motel / hotel in the USofA, it will have separate line items for "sales" and "bed" taxes. These are specifically collected and remitted as a "bed" tax. I can find no evidence that Sumter Co levies that type of "bed" tax on short term rentals on houses within TV.

AGAIN ... I do not know exactly how Sumter Co funds in "Tourist Development" agency or how it shares it's collected taxes with it. My original point was that Tourist Development Agencys are typically funded by a specific "bed" tax .... Sumter Co would not appear to generate a lot of this type of revenue ..... and regardless of how it is funded, a grant from an agency that's mission is the development of tourism within the county, for entertainment in TV squares is questionable at best.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

LndLocked - - - sorry if I misunderstood the point you were driving at.

Bill :)

[LndLocked]

LndLocked - - - sorry if I misunderstood the point you were driving at.

Bill :)
No problem ... any discussion of taxes tend to get complex and difficult to convey in a short msg brd posting.

[LndLocked]

Further review of this document, http://sumtercountyfl.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1844
Go down to page 30 and you will see the budget of the Tourist Development Tax 5 year Plan. Expenses planned for 2012-13, 13-14,14-15, and 15- 16 all show 60,000 to go to The Villages Sumter Landing/Brownwood entertainment. So this IS a recurring item and for most of those years represents over 1/3 of the total spending on "Promotion/Advertising/Single Events/Reoccuring Events"

Additionally there is a 10,000 per year allocation for advertsing with The Villages Media Outlet. The contract is between the county and "The Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc" and notifications go to Barbara Vesco for the Contractor with title Director Entertainment/Special events. There is nothing in this contract to indicate that the Vescos independantly own anything rather that they direct or manage it.

I did find this line item in the document linked above:

REVENUES
Tourist Development Tax revenues are generated by overnight guests staying in Sumter County RV
parks/campgrounds, hotels, motels and condominiums. As a rule, any short term lodging of six months or less is
subject to the two percent tax in addition to Sumter County’s sales tax. Collections are received through the
Florida Department of Revenue and returned to the County on a monthly basis for the County’s use. Sumter
County records this revenue in a separate Tourist Development Tax fund.

This is Sumter Co's "bed" tax and the line in bold appears to open the door to collecting bed tax on short term rentals in TV. I know a TV rental landlord in Sumter co and will ask if they are required to collect a separate 2% bed tax on short term rentals.

[justjim]

I don't have a problem with TV getting such a Grant. Several moons ago I was involved in evaluating grant proposals and sit on a State Advisory committee and we volunteered to evaluate, along with State Staff, tourism grant applications. There should be a method and criteria to evaluate the intended results of such a Grant and that would/should have been included in the RFP (request for proposal) and TV'S proposal itself. If the results were to be evaluated, it would be interesting how they proposed to do it. Every guest we have for the first time, we usually take them to the entertainment at one of the squares. A lot of the time they spend money at the stores and/or vendors----this in turn generates sales tax for the county. Consumer spending----this is the engine of our economy.

[billethkid]

it is an urban legend that retailers or commercial tenants in the squares have to pay a percentage to the developer for "whatever".

This legend is perpetrated in my opinion by many retailers that have gone out of business and lay blame to their problem on the developer charging too much rent/fees.

There are statements in many of the leases pertaining to attaining certain levels of revenues. For example if one has a business planned to do $500,000 per year in sales....there may be a clause stating that when they attain
$1, 500,000 they will begin paying a 1% fee to TV. Who would care if the business is doing 3 times more than planned???

Also by lease the retailers are supposed to stay open until 9 PM every day except Christmas and Thanksgiving.....whether they do any business after 6 PM does not matter. If there were no entertainment you would see many of these retailers closing at 5 or 6 PM.

The way charging for entertainment would be done, in my opinion, is the amenity fees would be raised to make it happen......not a very popular prospect for many of us.

Reality has a way of sorting out what is important to maintain once the developer has built out the area and has withdrawn subsidizing all marketing-like activities promoting "TV Lifestyle".

btk

[justjim]

Billethkid: You are right about residents paying for the entertainment after "buildout". It is then----you will see, one way or the other, how important the entertainment EVERY NIGHT 0n the Squares is to the residents of TV. I heard from a sales rep that the date is the end of 2015 for "buildout". Who knows if he really knows?

[jbdlfan]

I don't have a problem with TV getting such a Grant. Several moons ago I was involved in evaluating grant proposals and sit on a State Advisory committee and we volunteered to evaluate, along with State Staff, tourism grant applications. There should be a method and criteria to evaluate the intended results of such a Grant and that would/should have been included in the RFP (request for proposal) and TV'S proposal itself. If the results were to be evaluated, it would be interesting how they proposed to do it. Every guest we have for the first time, we usually take them to the entertainment at one of the squares. A lot of the time they spend money at the stores and/or vendors----this in turn generates sales tax for the county. Consumer spending----this is the engine of our economy.
So in this world of being overtaxed and overburdoned with regulations, your ok with taking money out of peoples pockets to give to people who can well afford to provide? Taking money from peoples pockets that would be spending that money in local businesses, at least according to this plan. These people will come to TV with or without music on the square. I would venture to say that the majority of people at the squares are folks that already live here anyways. Another example of tax cronyism......

[mulligan]

Maybe I'm terminally thick, but no posters have shown me where there is a problem with using tourist promotion money to support the entertainment in the squares. I'd rather see that than a couple of billboards on I-75 advertising Sumter county as a tourist destination.

[justjim]

So in this world of being overtaxed and overburdoned with regulations, your ok with taking money out of peoples pockets to give to people who can well afford to provide? Taking money from peoples pockets that would be spending that money in local businesses, at least according to this plan. These people will come to TV with or without music on the square. I would venture to say that the majority of people at the squares are folks that already live here anyways. Another example of tax cronyism......

This money has been designated for tourism. It has already come out of somebody's pocket---most likely added on to a motel bill or as sales tax. I'm not sure what is meant by tax cronyism..... Is the motel tax cronyism or sales tax? Point is, the money was probably spent at a local business in the first place. It is arguable whether this is money well spent or not. That is why the grant should contain evaluation criteria. It is also arguable whether a tax should be added to your motel bill. Maybe we shouldn't promote tourism by using taxes. All questions to be answered by our elected officials that have been voted into office by majority to represent us the people. Some taxes are necessary---some not. Some taxes are used "well" for the better good---some could be rescinded.

[jbdlfan]

This money has been designated for tourism. It has already come out of somebody's pocket---most likely added on to a motel bill or as sales tax. I'm not sure what is meant by tax cronyism..... Is the motel tax cronyism or sales tax? Point is, the money was probably spent at a local business in the first place. It is arguable whether this is money well spent or not. That is why the grant should contain evaluation criteria. It is also arguable whether a tax should be added to your motel bill. Maybe we shouldn't promote tourism by using taxes. All questions to be answered by our elected officials that have been voted into office by majority to represent us the people. Some taxes are necessary---some not. Some taxes are used "well" for the better good---some could be rescinded.

That is my point about tax cronyism. The elected officials come from the most affluent part of the county. They are elected by the most affluent part of the county. Where does the money go? The most affluent part of the county. Why spend more money on something that is already working and effective? Why not spend the money elsewhere to try and generate a new stream of income??? Answer is.......

[mickey100]

.... Why spend more money on something that is already working and effective? Why not spend the money elsewhere to try and generate a new stream of income??? Answer is.......

That was my feeling as well. It would make more sense if you really want to promote tourism, to come up with new and innovative ideas to fund.

It doesn't make any sense at all to fund entertainment at the Villages, from a tourism point of view. People come to The Villages to live or rent, regardless of whether or not there is entertainment. And especially during snowbird season, you get a lot of snowbirds from other nearby retirement communities like Spruce Creek, that frequent the Squares for the free entertainment. Again, they are not tourists - they live or rent in the county already.

Makes you wonder why the legislators are so keen to fund this. I don't really know the political makeup of the local legislators. Could it be they are Republicans who have been on the receiving end of Morse's big donations to the Republican party?

[gomoho]

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?

[graciegirl]

../

[perrjojo]

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?

:BigApplause::agree: we have been coming here for 12 years. Without TV and the squares, we would have never come here. Would you?

[justjim]

Gomoho you posted most of what I was getting ready to post. Nice job and good answer. I would just add one other comment. In order to get a Grant you have to make application or in most cases---complete a request for proposal (RFP) Just maybe TV had the best proposal or even maybe the only one.

[janmcn]

Gomoho you posted most of what I was getting ready to post. Nice job and good answer. I would just add one other comment. In order to get a Grant you have to make application or in most cases---complete a request for proposal (RFP) Just maybe TV had the best proposal or even maybe the only one.

I wonder if there is a grant out there that would bring parades back to The Villages??????????????

[DougB]

I don't mind contributing to the cost of the entertainment. It's still cheaper than going to a night club to get live entertainment.

I also would not mind paying for the cost of the entertainment, as long as it is real entertainment. I get really disappointed when the put these one man/woman or duo barfbarfprivate karaoke shows on.

barf

[Cisco Kid]

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?

BING GO !!!!!!
We are packing right now, getting ready to head down to TV to spend this years vacation money. If not for TV & the squares, we would drive right past the area and go hundreds of miles south.

[justjim]

Governments are not the only sources for Grants. There are millions of dollars available from many many different sources----Foundations, Charities and various Endowments provide Grants for education, research and just about any kind of endeavor you can imagine. Don't laugh, might even be one out there for a parade!

[NJblue]

I agree that TV is THE tourist destination of Sumter County and that there are no other contenders. To spend money trying to develop other areas into tourist spots would be pouring money down a rat hole.

It is also true that the vast majority of the revenue source for this grant is from the motels around TV and short-term rentals in TV, so there is no "taking out of the pockets of the other parts of the county". It's quite the contrary - the rest of the county is a significant benefactor of TV. Without TV, there would be far fewer jobs and property taxes would be significantly higher. I'm sure that the presence of TV is a significant reason for the fact that property tax rates around the county go DOWN every year.

[justjim]

BING GO !!!!!!
We are packing right now, getting ready to head down to TV to spend this years vacation money. If not for TV & the squares, we would drive right past the area and go hundreds of miles south.

:ho: Hey, Cisco come on down. Stay at one of our fabulous rental homes and be sure to Rent yourself a high speed golf cart and join the various thrill races that occur daily between Rt 42 and Rt 44 here in TV. I'm sure you will enjoy yourself. Oh, while you are "thrill riding", your significant other can spend your vacation money at several of TV'S places of business----you will need some "refreshment" following your thrill ride and you can join her at the square for dinner and dance yourself away all the way up to 9 o'clock. Sounds exciting doesn't it? And that is just the first day of the rest of your life!

[jbdlfan]

:BigApplause::agree: we have been coming here for 12 years. Without TV and the squares, we would have never come here. Would you?

Absolutely!!!! Really, people move here for the squares?????? 90,0000 people call this home. Man, the squares would really be crowded....

[cabo35]

I too, have no dog in this fight, living in Marion County, but if I still lived in Sumter County and did not live in The Villages, I would have a serious problem supplementing activities in and around The Villages. The folks in Lake Pan, Bushnell, Webster and other parts of South Sumter won't see any benefit from this. As a matter of fact, many locals that have been born and raised here, carry a deep resentment for the way their county has been changed. Don't care too much, just saying......

Villagers contribute the biggest share of tax dollars that go into Sumter County's tax coffers. Those tax dollars go for schools.....Villagers don't have kids in school...., roads outside of the Villages, public safety resources in "Lake Pan, Bushnell, Webster and other parts of South Sumter." Funny thing....I don't hear of Villagers "carrying a deep resentment" toward locals who benefit from Villager tax dollars. To the contrary, Villagers support local businesses, use local contractors, volunteer and generously donate to local schools and charities.

I concede that if I were a local, I would miss quiet, lazy days fishing at my favorite childhood fishing hole with only my thoughts and the sound of the trade winds slipping through the trees , watching cattle graze or taking in a landscape of watermelon patches and wildlife instead of rooftops and roads. Sumter County is huge. I know there are places within Sumter where those memories still exist.

I don't hear too much resentment from the locals about the favorable economic impact, jobs, medical services, hospitals and financial opportunity for motivated native, "born and raised" who absent The Villages would be looking in Orlando, Tampa or Miami for decent work.

I do know some "locals" and they are wonderful people who do not express the resentment you suggest.

Like you......just saying.

[jbdlfan]

Sorry, but I can't think of a single thing this part of Florida could offer a tourist other than The Villages! My goodness think of all the fabulous parts of Florida with real bona-fide tourist attractions. Why would someone come to no-mans land other than to enjoy The Villages. So why couldn't the nightly entertainment on the squares be part of that attraction along with golf and restaurants and shopping?

The city of Wilmington NC bills itself as a historic district that brings in tourists that end up buying homes there either as 2nd homes or future retirement homes. The idea is bring them in and they'll love the community and buy and add to the tax base.

Hate to say it, but The Villages is a tourist attraction and could easily be promoted as such to a specific segment of society. Disney is for families/TV for retirees. Don't get the problem?
Not the point..... That's what some are missing. Should tax money be spent for this????? Tax Money?!?!?!?!?!? My goodness folks, if you want to subsidize the squares with tax money, why not have free drinks? Free food? no, that would be crazy..... just another form of welfare......hey, if we don't take it someone else will!
Wow........

[jbdlfan]

Villagers contribute the biggest share of tax dollars that go into Sumter County's tax coffers. Those tax dollars go for schools.....Villagers don't have kids in school...., roads outside of the Villages, public safety resources in "Lake Pan, Bushnell, Webster and other parts of South Sumter." Funny thing....I don't hear of Villagers "carrying a deep resentment" toward locals who benefit from Villager tax dollars. To the contrary, Villagers support local businesses, use local contractors, volunteer and generously donate to local schools and charities.

I concede that if I were a local, I would miss quiet, lazy days fishing at my favorite childhood fishing hole with only my thoughts and the sound of the trade winds slipping through the trees , watching cattle graze or taking in a landscape of watermelon patches and wildlife instead of rooftops and roads. Sumter County is huge. I know there are places within Sumter where those memories still exist.

I don't hear too much resentment from the locals about the favorable economic impact, jobs, medical services, hospitals and financial opportunity for motivated native, "born and raised" who absent The Villages would be looking in Orlando, Tampa or Miami for decent work.

I do know some "locals" and they are wonderful people who do not express the resentment you suggest.

Like you......just saying.

Maybe you should get out more.
Sorry, but locals OUTSIDE the TV resent this very much. Medical services-read the post here. Local contractors-hand picked and some are already bankrupt(yes, I know them personally)
But none of this have anything to do with tax money subsidizing fun at the square. And people around here think others have an entitlement mentality.....

[jbdlfan]

I agree that TV is THE tourist destination of Sumter County and that there are no other contenders. To spend money trying to develop other areas into tourist spots would be pouring money down a rat hole.

It is also true that the vast majority of the revenue source for this grant is from the motels around TV and short-term rentals in TV, so there is no "taking out of the pockets of the other parts of the county". It's quite the contrary - the rest of the county is a significant benefactor of TV. Without TV, there would be far fewer jobs and property taxes would be significantly higher. I'm sure that the presence of TV is a significant reason for the fact that property tax rates around the county go DOWN every year.
Schools received $4m less this year from last. Where is the benefit to the rest of the county??????

[justjim]

There are always those that are opposed to development. I've seen articles and letters to the editor of The Orlando Sentinetal expressing opinion that Orlando would have been better off if Disney World had never been built in the Orlando area. Hey, everybody has a right to their opinions but the fact is most reasonable people believe that Disney is a great asset to the area. Would the tri-county area (especially Sumter County) be better off without The Villages? Most would say TV has been an asset and a blessing to the tri-county area. Is everybody happy? Of course not, for many reasons, you always have disgruntled people who feel they didn't get their piece of the pie. But TV has provided opportunities to hundreds of local residents that would never have happen without development of TV. Now a small Grant from Sumter County is awarded to TV. Most would say---long overdue and it should be 10 times more for all TV and it's residents have done for Sumter County.

[Peachie]

....

[graciegirl]

Maybe you should get out more.
Sorry, but locals OUTSIDE the TV resent this very much. Medical services-read the post here. Local contractors-hand picked and some are already bankrupt(yes, I know them personally)
But none of this have anything to do with tax money subsidizing fun at the square. And people around here think others have an entitlement mentality.....

Sometimes I think that people who do NOT live here jump to conclusions about all people who live here. There are some very wealthy people who do and others have saved, scrimped, done without, and made sacrifices to assure that in their retirement years they would be financially secure. It hurts me that some folks assume that all or most people who live in TV were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

This grant issue is not as simplistic as you are making it jbdfan. The grant has not been granted. Grants are VERY hard to get.

I do say that the development of The Villages has turned Sumter county from one of the poorer counties into the one with the highest employment rate. That is a good thing.

It is UGLY to look down on people who are poor and UGLY to look down on people who have managed to live their life in such a way as to attain the privilege of living here. It is NOT a sin to be wealthy if you didn't steal to get it and worked hard to earn it and didn't throw it away when you did earn it.

Some folks who live here are arrogant and demanding and selfish, but I think they are the minority. It hurts all of us who live here to read that others are incorrectly judging all of us.

[rubicon]

Maybe you should get out more.
Sorry, but locals OUTSIDE the TV resent this very much. Medical services-read the post here. Local contractors-hand picked and some are already bankrupt(yes, I know them personally)
But none of this have anything to do with tax money subsidizing fun at the square. And people around here think others have an entitlement mentality.....

jbdlfan: I happen to agree with some of your talking points.
I am probably one of the few that voted against Sumter One primarily because it eliminated the checks and balances needed in government.
I abhor tourist traps believe the Town Squares are just that and so avoid them for the most part. I love to dance but won't dance in the squares.
I believe as respects the Entertaiment that it should be funded with usr fees. If you want to dance every night at the square knock yourself out but please don't ask for my hard earned money. My priorities don't including frequent dining and dancing.

I also don't ever use the rec centers, pools, etc. However I agreed to the amenitiy fees and so I will abide by my obligations.

finally there really are some very nice people who live in The Villages

[billethkid]

Some folks who live here are arrogant and demanding and selfish, but I think they are the minority. It hurts all of us who live here to read that others are incorrectly judging all of us.

Right on the button. Unfortunately as I have said about many of the discussions on various TOTV forums....most keystrokes are spent discussing the minority/isolated issues/incidents.....hence portrying an innacurate perception of what really exists for those of us in the majority of living the lifestyle with no equal.

btk

[jbdlfan]

Sometimes I think that people who do NOT live here jump to conclusions about all people who live here. There are some very wealthy people who do and others have saved, scrimped, done without, and made sacrifices to assure that in their retirement years they would be financially secure. It hurts me that some folks assume that all or most people who live in TV were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

This grant issue is not as simplistic as you are making it jbdfan. The grant has not been granted. Grants are VERY hard to get.

I do say that the development of The Villages has turned Sumter county from one of the poorer counties into the one with the highest employment rate. That is a good thing.

It is UGLY to look down on people who are poor and UGLY to look down on people who have managed to live their life in such a way as to attain the privilege of living here. It is NOT a sin to be wealthy if you didn't steal to get it and worked hard to earn it and didn't throw it away when you did earn it.

Some folks who live here are arrogant and demanding and selfish, but I think they are the minority. It hurts all of us who live here to read that others are incorrectly judging all of us.
I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

[justjim]

"As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.". Jdblfan. I don't personally know the vast majority of TV residents but the ones I do know well enough to call friends don't have what you call a sense of entitlement. You might be surprised to find that many TV residents came from very poor backgrounds and without exception they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Many of us came from "blue collar" homes where they had mothers who mixed bread with hamburger to make the so called meat stretch far enough so all the family members had some to eat. As kids we were poor but didn't know we were poor. We learned the value of work from a very early age. If we wanted spending money we earned it by mowing yards, babysitting, collecting soda bottles, picking wild berries in season, packing in coal and whatever else we could find to do. When my father lost his job Because his factory closed, my mother took in washing and cleaned houses to help out. When I graduated from High School, I went straight to work miles away and sent home money every payday, until Dad got a decent job, so we could keep our house. We were entitled to work hard, pay your bills, save a little for a "rainy" day and go to church on Sunday. When I was 20 years old, I married a beautiful young Christian girl who just graduated from High School (met at church) and for years we worked hard and reached our goals of being the first in our families to graduate from college---while having a son born along the way. Like most folks, we had our mountains and our valleys. We saved and invested for retirement. That's only a small part of our story but in TV (trust me) you will find similar and better stories over and over again. This great land has given us opportunities not entitlements.

[cabo35]

I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

Once again, you do not object to the vast contributions Villagers make to Sumter County schools, public safety outside the Villages, roads not in the Villages, libraries and other services throughout the county. Villagers pay the lion's share of operating ALL of Sumter County without the expectation of personal return on their tax dollar.

Between 1940 and 1960, the population of Sumter was steady at around 11,000. The subsequent population growth occurred from the 70's to today at 97,756. The Villages certainly is the "culprit". My rough numbers, subject to empirical and precise review suggests conservatively that the 80,000 Villagers in Sumter carry the preponderance of the county's tax burden.

1870 United States Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1870_United_States_Census)

1860 1,549
—
1870 2,952 90.6%
1880 4,686 58.7%
1890 5,363 14.4%
1900 6,187 15.4%
1910 6,696 8.2%
1920 7,851 17.2%
1930 10,644 35.6%
1940 11,041 3.7%
1950 11,330 2.6%
1960 11,869 4.8%
1970 14,839 25.0%
1980 24,272 63.6%
1990 31,577 30.1%
2000 53,345 68.9%
2010 93,420 75.1

It is interesting that you cite entertainment three times in your rant. Many would call it culture. How do you feel about culture and the arts? The squares are open to all Sumter residents. Have you ever been to one of the squares? Have you ever taken in a movie? Been to a recital at Church on the Square? Been to an art exhibit on the square? Have you been to a craft show where local artisans display and sell the products of their talent or an antique car show on the square? Many, many Sumter residents outside of the Villages do enjoy the entertainment and culture.

The available math says that the matching grant is for $60,000. There are 97,756 residents in Sumter. That would mean the per capita contribution to support entertainment enjoyed by thousands of county residents would be sixty one cents ($.61) per resident. I would not be considered an "affluent or wealthy" person with an entitlement mentality but would be happy to pick up your share of the grant.

[KathieI]

I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

I very much agree. And... with this grant money, are they going to pay any more to the entertainers who perform for us??? Probably not. They, BTW, are not very well paid, which really upsets me.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm not sure the number of visitors/taxes generated would be much different without the entertainment. But not for us to decide. Hopefully the legislators will spend the money in a way that is best for the majority of their constituents.

You can't be serious. Have you been to the Town Squares between 5:00 and 9:00. have you seen 500 people or so gathered around the stages listening and dancing to the music? Do you think that any of them would be there if not for the entertainment?

I can't imagine saying to my friends, "Let's all down to the Town Square and hang out." If there was not entertainment down there. The little bars and ice cream places may draw a few people, but not in the numbers that go down there now.

The entertainment is a huge draw and the fact that it is being supported by tax dollars is fine with me. It makes sense since there are many people coming into the Villages for the "free" entertainment. The taxes help to keep our amenities fee down.

[cabo35]

Schools received $4m less this year from last. Where is the benefit to the rest of the county??????

Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?

As of the end of the 2008 fiscal year, the district's total spending budget was $55,740,000,

Instruction: $29,878,000
Teacher Salaries: $15,513,000
Pupils: $1,731,000
Total Support Services: $15,926,000

Sumter County School Board, Florida - Sunshine Review (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Sumter_County_School_Board,_Florida)

The 2012 budget is $65,740,938

http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us/pdf/Budget/Budget-submitted.pdf

Forty-three new teachers were just added in Sumter County School Districts. By all accounts and reviews, Sumter county has an outstanding educational system supported by Villagers without ill will or the "entitlement" mentality you keep implying. Further, Villagers do not have kids in the system

Sumter District Schools - Preparing the Next Generation Today (http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us)

Guess who is picking up without protest, most of that tab. Further, remarkably, the tax revenues driven by Villagers reduces the millage rate significantly. That gives substantial tax relief to Sumter residents. A lot more than your sixty-one cents ($.61). Ooops, I forgot, it doesn't affect you...you live in Marion.

While I respect your opinion, the facts do not support your argument.

Have a great day. Thanks for the cerebral exercise.

[jbdlfan]

Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?

As of the end of the 2008 fiscal year, the district's total spending budget was $55,740,000,

Instruction: $29,878,000
Teacher Salaries: $15,513,000
Pupils: $1,731,000
Total Support Services: $15,926,000

Sumter County School Board, Florida - Sunshine Review (http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Sumter_County_School_Board,_Florida)

The 2012 budget is $65,740,938

http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us/pdf/Budget/Budget-submitted.pdf

Forty-three new teachers were just added in Sumter County School Districts. By all accounts and reviews, Sumter county has an outstanding educational system supported by Villagers without ill will or the "entitlement" mentality you keep implying. Further, Villagers do not have kids in the system

Sumter District Schools - Preparing the Next Generation Today (http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us)

Guess who is picking up without protest, most of that tab. Further, remarkably, the tax revenues driven by Villagers reduces the millage rate significantly. That gives substantial tax relief to Sumter residents. A lot more than your sixty-one cents ($.61). Ooops, I forgot, it doesn't affect you...you live in Marion.

While I respect your opinion, the facts do not support your argument.

Have a great day. Thanks for the cerebral exercise.
Nope......
Revenue 2011 from local sources-$35.8 million
2012- $31.4 million
Still none of this is my point!!!!!
You are using tax dollars for music on the square!!!!
Apparently, I see this much differently tan everyone else. So go ahead, use tax money to have a good time. It's not my money....
Now as far as entitlement, do some of you even read the post on here. Golf cart drivers that disobey the laws, car drivers that disobey the laws, golfers that believe the rules don't apply to them, bikers that own the road, people with dog poop issues, ect.......
Geesh......everybody must always be "the other guy"
But hey, what do I know, I just live here......

[janmcn]

Once again, you do not object to the vast contributions Villagers make to Sumter County schools, public safety outside the Villages, roads not in the Villages, libraries and other services throughout the county. Villagers pay the lion's share of operating ALL of Sumter County without the expectation of personal return on their tax dollar.

Between 1940 and 1960, the population of Sumter was steady at around 11,000. The subsequent population growth occurred from the 70's to today at 97,756. The Villages certainly is the "culprit". My rough numbers, subject to empirical and precise review suggests conservatively that the 80,000 Villagers in Sumter carry the preponderance of the county's tax burden.

1870 United States Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1870_United_States_Census)

1860 1,549
—
1870 2,952 90.6%
1880 4,686 58.7%
1890 5,363 14.4%
1900 6,187 15.4%
1910 6,696 8.2%
1920 7,851 17.2%
1930 10,644 35.6%
1940 11,041 3.7%
1950 11,330 2.6%
1960 11,869 4.8%
1970 14,839 25.0%
1980 24,272 63.6%
1990 31,577 30.1%
2000 53,345 68.9%
2010 93,420 75.1

It is interesting that you cite entertainment three times in your rant. Many would call it culture. How do you feel about culture and the arts? The squares are open to all Sumter residents. Have you ever been to one of the squares? Have you ever taken in a movie? Been to a recital at Church on the Square? Been to an art exhibit on the square? Have you been to a craft show where local artisans display and sell the products of their talent or an antique car show on the square? Many, many Sumter residents outside of the Villages do enjoy the entertainment and culture.

The available math says that the matching grant is for $60,000. There are 97,756 residents in Sumter. That would mean the per capita contribution to support entertainment enjoyed by thousands of county residents would be sixty one cents ($.61) per resident. I would not be considered an "affluent or wealthy" person with an entitlement mentality but would be happy to pick up your share of the grant.

Half of the things you mention in the above, such as the Church on the Square and the antique car shows, would not be effected by this grant since they are all in LAKE County, not SUMTER County.

[jbdlfan]

[QUOTE=cabo35;616164]Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?


Not anti Villages at all. If I was, I wouldn't have bought here. I'm anti wasteful spending. Love The Villages, as a matter of fact, I'm about to fill my cooler and drive down and enjoy some free, Sumter County subsidized entertainment.

[jbdlfan]

"As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.". Jdblfan. I don't personally know the vast majority of TV residents but the ones I do know well enough to call friends don't have what you call a sense of entitlement. You might be surprised to find that many TV residents came from very poor backgrounds and without exception they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Many of us came from "blue collar" homes where they had mothers who mixed bread with hamburger to make the so called meat stretch far enough so all the family members had some to eat. As kids we were poor but didn't know we were poor. We learned the value of work from a very early age. If we wanted spending money we earned it by mowing yards, babysitting, collecting soda bottles, picking wild berries in season, packing in coal and whatever else we could find to do. When my father lost his job Because his factory closed, my mother took in washing and cleaned houses to help out. When I graduated from High School, I went straight to work miles away and sent home money every payday, until Dad got a decent job, so we could keep our house. We were entitled to work hard, pay your bills, save a little for a "rainy" day and go to church on Sunday. When I was 20 years old, I married a beautiful young Christian girl who just graduated from High School (met at church) and for years we worked hard and reached our goals of being the first in our families to graduate from college---while having a son born along the way. Like most folks, we had our mountains and our valleys. We saved and invested for retirement. That's only a small part of our story but in TV (trust me) you will find similar and better stories over and over again. This great land has given us opportunities not entitlements.
Look, I've lived in or near The Villages for over six years now. My family has been here for eight and I have friends that were here from the beginning. I moved down here for this place. I understand what you say about struggles, first hand. I know some folks have worked hard to get here. But you are blind if you don't see the entitlement aspect. My wife has worked here for 6 years in a service position. She has now reached the point where she can't do it anymore. Her customers are rude, nasty, and condescending, even when they are proven wrong. Not all of them of course, but enough of them that she has to leave the business. That is truly sad because she is absolutely the best they have in her company and everyone will tell you that. I know many of you are not this way, but there enough, that as someone else has said, they bring the attention and scorn. We almost didn't buy in here because of her experiences, but have decided that if she can get away from these folks as customers and they are now our co-inhabitants, they will no longer treat her that way without consequences. I always challenge folks to speak to workers here outside this environment ask their opinions. You will generally get a different answer than you get while in here.
Still, none of this has anything to do with my original point.

[ROCKETMAN]

I understood when the developer funded the entertainment it came from the grant money, income from vendor night, ($30 per vendor per night),income from bar kiosks, and percentage of rent from establishments around the square which benefit from the crowds. If the entertainment was sold to the vescos, where do they get income from. I doubt if morse will give up all the above income other than the grant. Not sure if a grant can go to a private entity. Maybe somebody knows these answers?

[cabo35]

Half of the things you mention in the above, such as the Church on the Square and the antique car shows, would not be effected by this grant since they are all in LAKE County, not SUMTER County.

I understand it differently then you........it appears the grant covers downtown entertainment in The Villages, Lake-Sumter and Brownwood.

From the OP's link.

Approve agreement between the The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc., and Sumter County Board of County Commissioners to implement a project entitled, "Downtown Entertainment in The Villages: Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood" (Staff recommends approval).
Documents: Ex Summ for Villages Entertainment 1-22-13.pdf, Indep Contractor Agreement - The Villages.pdf, Exhibit I -The Villages Entertainment TDC App.pdf, Exhibit II, III, IV- Scope of Work, Standard Insurance Requirements,Hold Harmless Agree - Signed - The Villages..pdf
3.

The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc. was established in 1959.

I would be happy to stand corrected if someone has a definitive documented answer.

EDIT NOTE: I stand corrected. I just found a document that indicates the grant applies to LSL and Brownwood.

Nice catch janmcm!

[lawatha]

[QUOTE=cabo35;616164]
I'm about to fill my cooler and drive down and enjoy some free, Sumter County subsidized entertainment.

I'll probably see you down there, because I can usually be found dancing at one square or the other almost every single night. But remember... "no coolers allowed on the square". :police: