The Pope/Modernism/Devaluing old age

[Villages PL]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but it just occured to me this morning that the fact of the Pope resigning sends a message about the value of a person as they age. By his actions, the Pope is saying the following: "I am no longer of value to the Catholic Church. I haven't done a good enough job and it will only get worse as my health slowly deteriorates. If I stay, I will be standing in the way of a younger Pope who will be better able to lead the church."

The Pope is supposed to be the Pope for life, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, 'til death takes him. You wouldn't resign from your marriage at age 80, 85, or 90 because you're not performing up to expectations, would you?

This is part of the slippery slope of modernism. Does the Pope approve of divorse in marriage because marriage is not as good in old age as it set out to be on the wedding day? Hopefully, he doesn't; but this is the signal he is sending by resigning. Like it or not, he is devaluing old age.

The result of modernism is that instead of seeing the wisdom of old age, it only sees disability and uselessness.

[graciegirl]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but it just occured to me this morning that the fact of the Pope resigning sends a message about the value of a person as they age. By his actions, the Pope is saying the following: "I am no longer of value to the Catholic Church. I haven't done a good enough job and it will only get worse as my health slowly deteriorates. If I stay, I will be standing in the way of a younger Pope who will be better able to lead the church."

The Pope is suupposed to be the Pope for life, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, 'til death takes him. You wouldn't resign from your marriage at age 80, 85, or 90 because you're not performing up to expectations, would you?

This is part of the slippery slope of modernism. Does the Pope approve of divorse in marriage because marriage is not as good in old age as it set out to be on the wedding day? Hopefully, he doesn't; but this is the signal he is sending by resigning. Like it or not, he is devaluing old age.

The result of modernism is that instead of seeing the wisdom of old age, we only see disability and uselessness.

Maybe he has been diagnosed with Alzheimers.

I am having difficulty understanding the other conclusions you have made.

[buggyone]

Possibly this Pope is one who truly understands his job. He is supposed to be the leader of all the Catholics and this is no easy job with all the problems and scandals of the Catholic Church worldwide. At 85 years old, this man realizes he cannot handle all the aspects of the position and that the Catholics could better be served by a younger or at least more healthy man.

People (and the Pope is a person) have to understand their own fallibilities and how well they can do a job. I give this Pope a lot of credit for understanding he can better serve his Church by stepping down rather than remain around and just be a figurehead with no comprehension of what he is doing.

[2BNTV]

Onle he knows what the extent of his problems are. He also has to function as the CEO of the church's holdings amongst his many duties.

By retiring, he is opening the way for a more effective leadership of the church. To say that he must die will probably leave the church in the lurch in terms he will be a figurehead and his duties must be accomplished without him.

Although, we are use to a pope dying to elect another pope, who's to say this is not the correct thing to do for himself and the church. I don't think it has to to with wisdom in old age or being devalued. I think it has to do with being an effective leader of the church and his responsibilities.

[gerryann]

I as well am confused by his decision to retire. A lot of my confusion stems from my memories of John Paul II and his health towards the end. He was very weak and sickly, but when advised that he should cancel a specific appearance, he was always present. I remember when he was shot and in the hospital....he reminded me of my grampa...just sitting in a chair reading in the hospital gown. He had the "human" side to him, but also the reverent, Godly side to him. It just seems so strange that "retire" is even a possibility for a Pope.

[Taltarzac725]

I can think of a large number of Popes whom I wished had retired. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/lets-raise-a-glass-to-the-bad-popes

[Villages PL]

Maybe he has been diagnosed with Alzheimers.

I am having difficulty with his decision relating to the other things you proposed..

Maybe he's suffering from depression, it's common in old age and often it's mistaken as dememtia.

[Taltarzac725]

.... this is probably a very good course. I have not listened to it but the dozen or so Teaching Company courses I have listened to or watched are usually very good. Not all of them. Once in a while I get a turkey.

Popes and the Papacy: A History (http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=6672#)

[Golfingnut]

They should try a young woman to drag them into this century. :boom:

[Mack184]

I think he's displaying a great deal of wisdom. Only he & God alone know what he is capable of. If he honestly feels that he cannot give 100% in the position he is in, and his church would suffer because he is no longer able to give 100%, I think people should appreciate his honesty & wisdom in choosing his path. If anything I think his choice shows an inteligent choice after much soul searching.

[pooh]

Why can't he relinquish his position as the Head of the Roman Cartholic Church? Though uncommon, it has happened and some Popes have been deposed.
I applaude his decision to step down if he is not well. He recognizes or realizes his physical and mental limitations, he is not sending a message about his value as an older individual. Positions of power take a toll on one's physical and mental strength. His life is not his to do with as he wishes. Personally, and I have absolutely no proof, I think he is not well and will soon not be with us.

[skyc6]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but it just occured to me this morning that the fact of the Pope resigning sends a message about the value of a person as they age. By his actions, the Pope is saying the following: "I am no longer of value to the Catholic Church. I haven't done a good enough job and it will only get worse as my health slowly deteriorates. If I stay, I will be standing in the way of a younger Pope who will be better able to lead the church."

The Pope is supposed to be the Pope for life, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, 'til death takes him. You wouldn't resign from your marriage at age 80, 85, or 90 because you're not performing up to expectations, would you?

This is part of the slippery slope of modernism. Does the Pope approve of divorse in marriage because marriage is not as good in old age as it set out to be on the wedding day? Hopefully, he doesn't; but this is the signal he is sending by resigning. Like it or not, he is devaluing old age.

The result of modernism is that instead of seeing the wisdom of old age, it only sees disability and uselessness.

The pope is resigning from his job as pope. He is not resigning from the church. Many married people retire from their jobs or become unable to care for themselves, but they don't leave their marriage. He just can't do the job of running the whole thing, which is pretty much in a mess right now, making it a very difficult job to do.
Frankly, I wish they would let some women get in there because I think that would create a checks and balance system which is much needed. The good ol' boys have mucked it up for far too long.
The world has so much poverty and hurting going on, and the leaders of the Catholic church sit in their palaces with gold plated everything and try to tell people how to live. Seriously?
The Catholic church is the largest land holder in the world, and I don't think they are doing all they could be doing to help those who are suffering. I don't think they are doing what Jesus would have done.
I am a practicing catholic, but do not need a pope in a palace to do it. Sorry--That's my rant and it is over. :blahblahblah:

[rubicon]

As Clint Eastwood would remind us Ä man has to know his limitations" It has also been expressed as "the wisdom to know when to hang on or when to let go.

I have seen people in all walks of life that should have let go but didn't. Take for example a doctor who won't let go of his patient when in fact a specialist was needed subjecting his patient to potential harm just because this doctor couldn't bring himself to admit that he could do no more. Or athletes or movie stars who just won't retire when their on top and live to regret it

The issue here isn't about the Caholic Church but a man's decision to step down. I prefer to error in favor of this man and not pre-judge and simply say he had the wisdom to know when to let go. Since he is remaining within the church I am certain he will continue to contribute in a positive manner

[skyc6]

As Clint Eastwood would remind us Ä man has to know his limitations" It has also been expressed as "the wisdom to know when to hang on or when to let go.

I have seen people in all walks of life that should have let go but didn't. Take for example a doctor who won't let go of his patient when in fact a specialist was needed subjecting his patient to potential harm just because this doctor couldn't bring himself to admit that he could do no more. Or athletes or movie stars who just won't retire when their on top and live to regret it

The issue here isn't about the Caholic Church but a man's decision to step down. I prefer to error in favor of this man and not pre-judge and simply say he had the wisdom to know when to let go. Since he is remaining within the church I am certain he will continue to contribute in a positive manner
Well Said.

[senior citizen]

The pope is resigning from his job as pope. He is not resigning from the church. Many married people retire from their jobs or become unable to care for themselves, but they don't leave their marriage. He just can't do the job of running the whole thing, which is pretty much in a mess right now, making it a very difficult job to do.
Frankly, I wish they would let some women get in there because I think that would create a checks and balance system which is much needed. The good ol' boys have mucked it up for far too long.
The world has so much poverty and hurting going on, and the leaders of the Catholic church sit in their palaces with gold plated everything and try to tell people how to live. Seriously?
The Catholic church is the largest land holder in the world, and I don't think they are doing all they could be doing to help those who are suffering. I don't think they are doing what Jesus would have done.
I am a practicing catholic, but do not need a pope in a palace to do it. Sorry--That's my rant and it is over. :blahblahblah:

HBO: Mea Maxima Culpa: Interview with Alex Gibney (http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/mea-maxima-culpa/interview/alex-gibney.html)

Yesterday we watched the HBO Documentary "Mea Maxima Culpa" Silence in the House of God.

In a nutshell, investigations led straight to the vatican and straight to Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict.

At least ten years ago I read a slew of books, some written by priests who had left their orders or left the seminary because no one listened to them, etc. others by investigative reporters in Boston, Massachusetts re terrible things done to children; I'm sure everyone followed the news at the time. It wasn't just Boston or Ireland or Central America, etc.........it was pervasive.

Ours is a small state and we've had to close churches to pay off the debts to the victims, etc......not to mention we can't even get any priests anymore. Years ago they would send them "away" if they misbehaved.......up to Vermont. We had our share.

Sad for those who were raised in the Catholic faith.

[senior citizen]

......

[Villages PL]

Based on what I have read in previous posts, it seems we must have had a lot of dumb Popes over the past 600 years if they didn't realize their limitations in old age and retire. And, essentially, what everyone is saying is: Screw tradition! But how many traditions can you throw overboard before there's nothing left to call a religion? So there's more to it than just devaluing old age.

About the sex scandal: I haven't kept up with the news but I don't think the Pope was responsible for it, was he?

Some have compared being Pope to being a CEO of a corporation. I don't get that. Do we need a board of directors to throw the Pope out if he doesn't perform up to expectations?

I think I may have been misunderstood when I compared marriage to being Pope: A church marriage represents a commitment before God and I assume that becoming a Pope is a commitment before God too. What do they say when they become Pope? Don't they make a commitment of some sort?

On a lighter note: Over the weekend I heard a comedian say that it's rediculous for a Pope to retire because of old age, because one of a Pope's most important duties is to be old.

[Villages PL]

Please delete this duplicate post.

[Bavarian]

My lovely Lady and I think it is terrible that Pope Benedict XVI is resigining. It sets a bad presedent. Plus I think he is one of the best Popes we have had. He is intellegent, Bayerisch, very devout and a good writer of holy Encyclicals and books, both as Josef Alois Kardinal Ratzinger und als Papst Benedikt. Until Pope Paul VI, the Popes stayed home in the Vatican. The Pope could have stayed in seculsion and let the Curia handle the day to day work, he could use telecommunications to appear around the World. He opened up a Twitter account, his secretary could have typed in his Tweets just like when EMAIL was new. He could have appointed a Paul if needed to help Peter.

I pray that the new Pope will be good, but I fear based on the prorecies of St. Malachy.

Trying to type with one good hand.
Servus.

[senior citizen]

Based on what I have read in previous posts, it seems we must have had a lot of dumb Popes over the past 600 years if they didn't realize their limitations in old age and retire. And, essentially, what everyone is saying is: Screw tradition! But how many traditions can you throw overboard before there's nothing left to call a religion? So there's more to it than just devaluing old age.

About the sex scandal: I haven't kept up with the news but I don't think the Pope was responsible for it, was he?

Some have compared being Pope to being a CEO of a corporation. I don't get that. Do we need a board of directors to throw the Pope out if he doesn't perform up to expectations?

I think I may have been misunderstood when I compared marriage to being Pope: A church marriage represents a commitment before God and I assume that becoming a Pope is a commitment before God too. What do they say when they become Pope? Don't they make a commitment of some sort?

On a lighter note: Over the weekend I heard a comedian say that it's rediculous for a Pope to retire because of old age, because one of a Pope's most important duties is to be old.

The Sins of the Father: Pope Benedict’s Pedophile Protection Racket | The Skeptical Libertarian (http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/12/the-sins-of-the-father-pope-benedicts-pedophile-protection-racket/)

The HBO documentary covered quite a bit of the cover up, stating what Benedict knew and did nothing about, after being appointed by Pope John Paul when Joseph Ratzinger was still a cardinal....to look at every case (which came to his desk) of every incident of pedophile priests from all over the world.........and he and the Pope met once a week.

We read all of the BOSTON GLOBE'S expose articles years ago which exposed what was going on in the Boston area......plus dozens of books written by priests themselves who had left the priesthood out of disgust of what was going on........

Coast to coast, victims have come forward and the church has paid out millions upon millions, selling off their churches and properties to pay the victims for their suffering..........

Click hyperlink above and read all the way to the bottom......read it in its entirety. Also, if you can, watch the HBO documentary..........which I mentioned in earlier post.

It's a rough outline , or condensation, of what you will read in all the older books, newspaper articles of who knew what and when they knew it. Again, that HBO documentary was very informational about the deaf children who were abused......

Priests were part of those explaining the problem on that documentary........explaining that this has been going on much longer than the most recent scandals...........and the two most recent Popes knew about it, as did the Cardinals and the Bishops.

They just swept it all under the rug until it was too late to hide it any longer. Most Catholics we know "do not have their heads in the sand" and know what went on. Again, it is sad. I feel for all those children. It happened in orphanages as well......and among the Lakota Sioux Indians who were taught by priests and brothers.

Again, it was pervasive.............

We were raised Roman Catholic and we raised our children Roman Catholic. Our kids are not raising theirs in the same faith, but in another faith. There is only ONE GOD.

[senior citizen]

The Sins of the Father: Pope Benedict’s Pedophile Protection Racket | The Skeptical Libertarian (http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/02/12/the-sins-of-the-father-pope-benedicts-pedophile-protection-racket/)

The HBO documentary covered quite a bit of the cover up, stating what Benedict knew and did nothing about, after being appointed by Pope John Paul when Joseph Ratzinger was still a cardinal....to look at every case (which came to his desk) of every incident of pedophile priests from all over the world.........and he and the Pope met once a week.

We read all of the BOSTON GLOBE'S expose articles years ago which exposed what was going on in the Boston area......plus dozens of books written by priests themselves who had left the priesthood out of disgust of what was going on........

Coast to coast, victims have come forward and the church has paid out millions upon millions, selling off their churches and properties to pay the victims for their suffering..........

Click hyperlink above and read all the way to the bottom......read it in its entirety. Also, if you can, watch the HBO documentary..........which I mentioned in earlier post.

It's a rough outline , or condensation, of what you will read in all the older books, newspaper articles of who knew what and when they knew it. Again, that HBO documentary was very informational about the deaf children who were abused......

Priests were part of those explaining the problem on that documentary........explaining that this has been going on much longer than the most recent scandals...........and the two most recent Popes knew about it, as did the Cardinals and the Bishops.

They just swept it all under the rug until it was too late to hide it any longer. Most Catholics we know "do not have their heads in the sand" and know what went on. Again, it is sad. I feel for all those children. It happened in orphanages as well......and among the Lakota Sioux Indians who were taught by priests and brothers.

Again, it was pervasive.............

We were raised Roman Catholic and we raised our children Roman Catholic. Our kids are not raising theirs in the same faith, but in another faith. There is only ONE GOD.

Pope Benedict's Legacy Marred by Sex Abuse Scandal - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pope-benedicts-legacy-marred-sex-abuse-scandal/story?id=18466726)
Click on above hyperlink and read in its entirety.......

Also read about the Legion of Christ and Father Marcial Maciel.

I truly loved Pope John Paul, but he obviously knew what this priest was doing all along...........as did Cardinal Ratzinger.
It's just the tip of the iceburg. Actually, priests said that they found documentation of such abuse going on back in the 400 church (papal records 4th century of church records of pedophile priests).

[janmcn]

Based on what I have read in previous posts, it seems we must have had a lot of dumb Popes over the past 600 years if they didn't realize their limitations in old age and retire. And, essentially, what everyone is saying is: Screw tradition! But how many traditions can you throw overboard before there's nothing left to call a religion? So there's more to it than just devaluing old age.

About the sex scandal: I haven't kept up with the news but I don't think the Pope was responsible for it, was he?

Some have compared being Pope to being a CEO of a corporation. I don't get that. Do we need a board of directors to throw the Pope out if he doesn't perform up to expectations?

I think I may have been misunderstood when I compared marriage to being Pope: A church marriage represents a commitment before God and I assume that becoming a Pope is a commitment before God too. What do they say when they become Pope? Don't they make a commitment of some sort?

On a lighter note: Over the weekend I heard a comedian say that it's rediculous for a Pope to retire because of old age, because one of a Pope's most important duties is to be old.

What was the life expectancy 600 years ago? I'm guessing it would have been about 30 years, or one third what it is now. A child born today could grow up to be the Pope and possibly live to be 110 years old.

Unfortunatly, our mental health research hasn't kept up with our rising longevity, and more people will suffer from dementia than ever before.

When the Pope said he is exhausted and unable to do the job, probably most senior citizens can relate. I know I can, and I'm even younger than the Pope.

[graciegirl]

What was the life expectancy 600 years ago? I'm guessing it would have been about 30 years, or one third what it is now. A child born today could grow up to be the Pope and possibly live to be 110 years old.

Unfortunatly, our mental health research hasn't kept up with our rising longevity, and more people will suffer from dementia than ever before.

When the Pope said he is exhausted and unable to do the job, probably most senior citizens can relate. I know I can, and I'm even younger than the Pope.

Well said.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Pope Benedict's Legacy Marred by Sex Abuse Scandal - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pope-benedicts-legacy-marred-sex-abuse-scandal/story?id=18466726)
Click on above hyperlink and read in its entirety.......

Also read about the Legion of Christ and Father Marcial Maciel.

I truly loved Pope John Paul, but he obviously knew what this priest was doing all along...........as did Cardinal Ratzinger.
It's just the tip of the iceburg. Actually, priests said that they found documentation of such abuse going on back in the 400 church (papal records 4th century of church records of pedophile priests).

What happened in the Catholic Church is horrible. The actual priests who did the abusing and the higher ups that continue to cover up! The Pope is going to stay on Vatican property so that he is protected legally. Being on Vatican property gives him continued immunity in any cases that he might be named in...

Two of my brothers were alter boys. One attempted suicide 3times...the other turned to drugs and spent most of his late teens and 20's in rehab.
Neither one of them have ever really spoken about it....one admitted there was a lot of wrong doing at the rectory. They have tried very hard to live productive adult lives....but I can see the hardship and pain they are always in....and because they do not want to hurt my parents....and because they are men and this "doesn't happen to men"....etc, etc, etc!!!

I personally believe ALL child abusers and molesters should be placed on an island and left there to rot with each other....

[senior citizen]

What happened in the Catholic Church is horrible. The actual priests who did the abusing and the higher ups that continue to cover up! The Pope is going to stay on Vatican property so that he is protected legally. Being on Vatican property gives him continued immunity in any cases that he might be named in...

Two of my brothers were alter boys. One attempted suicide 3times...the other turned to drugs and spent most of his late teens and 20's in rehab.
Neither one of them have ever really spoken about it....one admitted there was a lot of wrong doing at the rectory. They have tried very hard to live productive adult lives....but I can see the hardship and pain they are always in....and because they do not want to hurt my parents....and because they are men and this "doesn't happen to men"....etc, etc, etc!!!

I personally believe ALL child abusers and molesters should be placed on an island and left there to rot with each other....

Pope Immunity: Vatican Will Protect Benedict From Sexual Abuse Prosecution (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/17/pope-immunity_n_2708518.html)

Vatican will protect Benedict from sexual abuse prosecution........

Keep scrolling down to read background on this.........

Your brothers and other little children suffered terribly, all over the world, at the hands of men who they were supposed to honor and look up to, respect and obey. In the earlier years when children were to be "seen and not heard" their stories were never told .......but today that silence has been broken for quite some time now. The Bishops all knew and kept relocating the abuser priests........the Cardinals knew and the Popes knew....and did nothing.

[Villages PL]

What was the life expectancy 600 years ago? I'm guessing it would have been about 30 years, or one third what it is now. A child born today could grow up to be the Pope and possibly live to be 110 years old.

Unfortunatly, our mental health research hasn't kept up with our rising longevity, and more people will suffer from dementia than ever before.

When the Pope said he is exhausted and unable to do the job, probably most senior citizens can relate. I know I can, and I'm even younger than the Pope.

I had an ancestor who was born in 1850 and lived to 1956. My grandfather was born around 1875 and lived to age 97. I had a great aunt born around the late 1800s and lived to be 100.

It would be interesting to find out how long Popes lived hundreds of years ago. I think a good part of the reason that average life expectancy was short is because of a high rate of infant mortality. If you made it through infancy and childhood you probably had a decent chance of making it to old age.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Pope Immunity: Vatican Will Protect Benedict From Sexual Abuse Prosecution (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/17/pope-immunity_n_2708518.html)

Vatican will protect Benedict from sexual abuse prosecution........

Keep scrolling down to read background on this.........

Your brothers and other little children suffered terribly, all over the world, at the hands of men who they were supposed to honor and look up to, respect and obey. In the earlier years when children were to be "seen and not heard" their stories were never told .......but today that silence has been broken for quite some time now. The Bishops all knew and kept relocating the abuser priests........the Cardinals knew and the Popes knew....and did nothing.

Senior....I know that the silence has been broken, but not for all! It is still an embarrassing, shameful story to tell for so many. Their stories are not all being told. There are still children being hurt...by priests, by other adults supposedly in authority. If you look at the sex offenders registry in this area alone, it will or should disturb you. The current Pope should not be given any special protections. No church officials should.....

[senior citizen]

Senior....I know that the silence has been broken, but not for all! It is still an embarrassing, shameful story to tell for so many. Their stories are not all being told. There are still children being hurt...by priests, by other adults supposedly in authority. If you look at the sex offenders registry in this area alone, it will or should disturb you. The current Pope should not be given any special protections. No church officials should.....

Ayup. Vermontese for "yes".

Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston is on the short list........he seems genuine, humble and would be a breath of fresh air in Rome.

[blueash]

I had an ancestor who was born in 1850 and lived to 1956. My grandfather was born around 1875 and lived to age 97. I had a great aunt born around the late 1800s and lived to be 100.

It would be interesting to find out how long Popes lived hundreds of years ago. I think a good part of the reason that average life expectancy was short is because of a high rate of infant mortality. If you made it through infancy and childhood you probably had a decent chance of making it to old age.

Yes, you are correct if you add in the factor of surviving childbirth as a woman and work related deaths as a man. We have good data only recently but for the US in the 20th century if you born in the year 1900 and lived to age 65 your life expectancy at age 65 for a man was 11.35 years and 12.01 for a woman. If you were born in 1948 thus turning 65 this year, as a man your life expectancy is 12.71 years and woman 14.72 years. Thus that argument you hear all the time about how much longer people live now than they did when Social Security was begun is wrong. Data is from the Social Security Administration. fig2b, Act. Study No.120 (http://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/as120/images/LD_fig2b.html)

[Taltarzac725]

Ayup. Vermontese for "yes".

Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston is on the short list........he seems genuine, humble and would be a breath of fresh air in Rome.

Like to see someone like Cardinal Sean O'Malley of Boston become Pope. One of the National News channel reporters (Diane Sawyer's ABC broadcast) had said that he had sold a large chunk of his Diocese's real property to pay for victims services of those who had suffered at the hands of pedophile priests. And, that he lived in poverty even though he is a Cardinal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Patrick_O'Malley

[ilovetv]

The fact that Cardinal Law, who presided over so many known, hidden, and re-assigned pedophilia/rape cases in Boston, was placed in the highest echelons in Rome and was in the College of Cardinals that elected the current pope......tells pretty much all one needs to know about whether this or any pope is a truly God-inspired decision by the group of men.

New York Times - 2005 - "ROME, April 7 - Cardinal Bernard Law, who was forced to resign in disgrace as archbishop of Boston two years ago for protecting sexually abusive priests, was named by the Vatican today as one of nine prelates who will have the honor of presiding over funeral Masses for Pope John Paul II.

To many American Catholics, Cardinal Law is best known as the archbishop who presided over the Boston archdiocese as it became the focus for the sexual abuse scandal involving priests.

But to Vatican officials, Cardinal Law is a powerful kingmaker who traveled internationally for the church and whose favorite priests were regularly appointed bishops by John Paul. After he stepped down in Boston in 2003, he was given a spacious apartment and a prestigious although honorary post in Rome as archpriest of the Basilica of St. Mary Major.

It is by virtue of this position that he was given the high-profile role of celebrating Monday's funeral ritual, the third in the nine-day mourning period that follows a pope's death. It is expected that most of the cardinals will attend the Mass, which will be open to the public. Cardinal Law will deliver a homily that many Vatican watchers will parse for clues about the cardinals' thinking on who should be the next pope.

By permitting Cardinal Law to take the limelight in Rome just when the church is mourning the death of John Paul, the cardinals have reminded American Catholics that their most painful recent chapter barely registered in the Vatican......."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/08/international/worldspecial2/08cardinals.html?_r=0

[Bavarian]

When the then Josef Kardinal Ratziner was put in charge of the Homosexual/pedophile priest problem as Head of The Congregration For The Doctrine of the Faith, he started cleaning house. The Homosexual/peodophile priest problem took time to root out, but he basicaly fired the Archbishops by pushing them to non-managerial positions, weeding out the filth as he called it when coronated Pope. Pope John Paul II did nothing due to the fact that the Communists in Poland when they wanted to smear someone called them a homosexual, and he did not believe the charges were true, Many Archbishops and Bishops cracked done right away, there are seven priest total charged now. The filth has been removed, the problem is past.

Now the real problem was Homosexuals being ordained in direct defiance of long standing rules of The Church. The problem was priests after boys.

Other organizations have similar problems, read the papers.

This post seems to have turned into an orgy of Catholic bashing, can't we all just live with our own Religions in peace. This reminds me of the Religion forum on Southern Maryland Online.

[tpop1]

As a practicing Catholic (…and I’ll keep “practicing” in the unattainable hopes of getting it right some day), I am both sympathetic to victims of abuse by priests and taken aback by the direction this thread has taken.

The discussion of whether or not a Pope can or can’t or should or shouldn’t retire has morphed into a discussion of sexual predator priests who have ruined many young person’s lives.

I know and lament that a massive cover-up was perpetuated by higher-ups in the church and that the protection of those higher-ups like Cardinal Law by the Vatican, was widespread.

I have no way of knowing if the current Pope was involved and if this was the reason for his resignation. I may think so, but really do not know.

I do feel if the Pope feels he cannot continue to serve his flock that he has the obligation to retire and allow someone with the energy and wherewithal to take over.

As the church is a collection of human beings, it, as we all, will be fallible and not always do the right thing. Although my faith in people, including clergy, is shaken at times, my faith in God and his risen son Jesus is never!

[Taltarzac725]

As a practicing Catholic (…and I’ll keep “practicing” in the unattainable hopes of getting it right some day), I am both sympathetic to victims of abuse by priests and taken aback by the direction this thread has taken.

The discussion of whether or not a Pope can or can’t or should or shouldn’t retire has morphed into a discussion of sexual predator priests who have ruined many young person’s lives.

I know and lament that a massive cover-up was perpetuated by higher-ups in the church and that the protection of those higher-ups like Cardinal Law by the Vatican, was widespread.

I have no way of knowing if the current Pope was involved and if this was the reason for his resignation. I may think so, but really do not know.

I do feel if the Pope feels he cannot continue to serve his flock that he has the obligation to retire and allow someone with the energy and wherewithal to take over.

As the church is a collection of human beings, it, as we all, will be fallible and not always do the right thing. Although my faith in people, including clergy, is shaken at times, my faith in God and his risen son Jesus is never!

I never got the impression that the current Pope was involved with the cover-up of the pedophile priests actions. Most of these scandals occurred in the US, Ireland, and England as far as I know. Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) looks like he was primarily a theology academic in Germany and Italy. Then he was involved with cleaning up the mess caused by the sexual abuse scandal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

[DaleMN]

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. :ohdear:

[Tellmeyourstory....]

When the then Josef Kardinal Ratziner was put in charge of the Homosexual/pedophile priest problem as Head of The Congregration For The Doctrine of the Faith, he started cleaning house. The Homosexual/peodophile priest problem took time to root out, but he basicaly fired the Archbishops by pushing them to non-managerial positions, weeding out the filth as he called it when coronated Pope. Pope John Paul II did nothing due to the fact that the Communists in Poland when they wanted to smear someone called them a homosexual, and he did not believe the charges were true, Many Archbishops and Bishops cracked done right away, there are seven priest total charged now. The filth has been removed, the problem is past.

Now the real problem was Homosexuals being ordained in direct defiance of long standing rules of The Church. The problem was priests after boys.

Other organizations have similar problems, read the papers.

This post seems to have turned into an orgy of Catholic bashing, can't we all just live with our own Religions in peace. This reminds me of the Religion forum on Southern Maryland Online.

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying: the priests that abused the children were all homosexuals....therefore homosexual men are not attracted to other men but young children???

Seriously?????!!!!!!

[Tellmeyourstory....]

I never got the impression that the current Pope was involved with the cover-up of the pedophile priests actions. Most of these scandals occurred in the US, Ireland, and England as far as I know. Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) looks like he was primarily a theology academic in Germany and Italy. Then he was involved with cleaning up the mess caused by the sexual abuse scandal. Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases) Pope Benedict XVI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI)

He did not clean it up, nor make any of them pay for their sins....he just moved the offenders, the abusers....and hid the files.

[Taltarzac725]

He did not clean it up, nor make any of them pay for their sins....he just moved the offenders, the abusers....and hid the files.

Thanks for the comment. The facts seem to back you up a bit. Of course, I would probably want something with more credibility than Wikipedia for something this serious.

Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)

Anyone have some hard news stories on whatever role the current Pope might have had with the sex abuse cases and clergy?

[Bavarian]

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying: the priests that abused the children were all homosexuals....therefore homosexual men are not attracted to other men but young children???

Seriously?????!!!!!!

Homosexual priests were attracted to young boys. They are also attracted to homosexual men, but I don't want to open that can of worms. But, grown men have means to reject sexual advavces, young boys did not.

I have read much on this topic over the years. My point was that this post deviated from original post and its discussion as to weather or not a Pope should resign. I don't think so, it was only recently that Popes were expected to travel. Papst Benedikt could have done what he is going to do and remained Pope, the Curial Cardinals would do the heavy lifting under his overall guidance.

Why make a big deal of his being wheeled on elevated platform up main aisle of St. Peter's? Formerly the Popes were carried in on a chair by four men. And don't forget, twice a women tried to approach him in St. Peters.