Leesburg Middle School Gay/Straight Alliance

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Florida School Board May Cut All Student Clubs To Blockade Gay-Straight Alliance
A central Florida school district may ban all extracurricular student clubs in an attempt to prevent the formation of a Gay-Straight Alliance at a local middle school. The Lake County School District discussed amending the rules regarding student clubs in order to blockade a Gay-Straight Alliance at Carver Middle School in Leesburg, according to the Miami Herald.

IF THEY DO NOT ALLOW THIS CLUB...they have to take out all clubs and extracurricular groups...including sports.
I hope the Board soon sees the error of their ways...they are hurting all the kids!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

Leesburg Daily Commercial article 2/17.
Daily Commercial - <p>ACLU ups the pressure on Lake County School Board</p> (http://www.dailycommercial.com/News/LakeCounty/17Feb2013ACLU)

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Excellent article and one very brave young lady!!!

[Tellmeyourstory....]

PS...I called a friend who is involved with the local PFLAG...there are apparently many Villagers and the local area that are going to the board meeting. They are wearing red as a show of support. Not sure if red is significant or just wearing the same color.

[redwitch]

You would think with all the problems schools have had with bullying, with the prevailing attitude being an acceptance of gays today, and with just the concept of common decency and understanding that the school board would welcome a club like this. How very sad that they would consider banning all clubs to stop this one. Of course, I'm sure that the other clubs will be able to meet during school hours and not be considered extra-curricular after a month or two. Regardless, banning all clubs will only cause more strife and bullying between the gays and anti-gays. How very tragic.

[buggyone]

The situation is at Leesburg Middle School. I believe a middle school is for grades 6, 7, 8, and 9. Ages for the students in those grades are between 11 and 14? I am really wondering HOW a child between 11 and 14 years old KNOWS that they are gay or lesbian. They may have "mixed feelings" when changing for gym class around others of the same sex or in the shower with other students of the same sex but to have experienced gay or lesbian sex on a regular basis at that age seems, to me, to be very young - or to have experienced straight sex at those young ages, to me, seems very wrong, too.

Am I showing my age when I wonder HOW a child of between 11 and 14 is convinced they are gay or lesbian? I can understand an experimentation of sex both ways but to be convinced at that age...?

[paulandjean]

The situation is at Leesburg Middle School. I believe a middle school is for grades 6, 7, 8, and 9. Ages for the students in those grades are between 11 and 14? I am really wondering HOW a child between 11 and 14 years old KNOWS that they are gay or lesbian. They may have "mixed feelings" when changing for gym class around others of the same sex or in the shower with other students of the same sex but to have experienced gay or lesbian sex on a regular basis at that age seems, to me, to be very young - or to have experienced straight sex at those young ages, to me, seems very wrong, too.

Am I showing my age when I wonder HOW a child of between 11 and 14 is convinced they are gay or lesbian? I can understand an experimentation of sex both ways but to be convinced at that age...?

Unfortunately,I think you are showing your age. Not sure if the word "convinced" is the right word to use in that statement.Many 11-14 are unsure at that age.

[mulligan]

The problem I have with this situation is the school board being dictated to by the ACLU. They' re the ones who created most of our social mess to begin with. THEY should be banned.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Well reality is that middle schoolers do indeed know about sex and think about what you are saying. Don't you think that a heterosexual kid knows that they like the opposite sex?
Common sense tells me that everyone knows what they like, some choose to ignore those feelings until later in life.
Also....as a matter of fact 14 year olds def know...it is said there are several girls in the villages high school that either have had a baby (2 of them) and 2 more girls are currently pregnant. They are all between the ages of 13-15!!!!
So kids know!

[Portia]

You definitely know at that age.. I am a gay man and I knew at that age that I was attracted to the same sex.. and as far as the school board cutting all extra clubs because of gay /allaince shame on them for their narrow mindedness.. and I bet most of the decisison making is coming from men ..and most of the time these men are afraid of their own sexuality ..thats why there are so many married men still in the closet!!!

[Tellmeyourstory....]

you definitely know at that age.. I am a gay man and i knew at that age that i was attracted to the same sex.. And as far as the school board cutting all extra clubs because of gay /allaince shame on them for their narrow mindedness.. And i bet most of the decisison making is coming from men ..and most of the time these men are afraid of their own sexuality ..thats why there are so many married men still in the closet!!!

bravo!

[Taltarzac725]

Leesburg Daily Commercial article 2/17.
Daily Commercial - <p>ACLU ups the pressure on Lake County School Board</p> (http://www.dailycommercial.com/News/LakeCounty/17Feb2013ACLU)

I agree. What a stupid response from the school district. It shows no common sense AND panders to the overtly religious groups of parents which hints at establishing a religion on school grounds.

I remember a particularly precocious elementary school girl in Reno, NV who wanted me to do something to her anatomy when I was still scared to even kiss a girl. The elementary school girl already had a sexually transmitted disease at 12 or so. This was around 1972. I know Reno would probably have more sophisticated kids than in many other places because of the very fast life of the casinos. But, this is quite a different world now than any of us grew up in.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

I agree. What a stupid response from the school district. It shows no common sense AND panders to the overtly religious groups of parents which hints at establishing a religion on school grounds.

I remember a particularly precocious elementary school girl in Reno, NV who wanted me to do something to her anatomy when I was still scared to even kiss a girl. The elementary school girl already had a sexually transmitted disease at 12 or so. This was around 1972. I know Reno would probably have more sophisticated kids than in many other places because of the very fast life of the casinos. But, this is quite a different world now than any of us grew up in.

Bravo :BigApplause:

[rp001]

I don't think it is about a person's sexuality as much as it is just plain TOLERANCE. Unbelievable the bigotry displayed.........BY THE ADULTS

[janmcn]

I don't think it is about a person's sexuality as much as it is just plain TOLERANCE. Unbelievable the bigotry displayed.........BY THE ADULTS

And they probably call themselves 'Christians'.

[PattyPan1]

I can't believe in this day and age someone doesn't realize you are born gay, not mixed up or confused.

I feel it is an injustice for a school board to single out one group, whether it is gay or not.

Wake up people. This is the 21st century and should be more in tuned with the world around us.

Stepping off my soap box now.


The situation is at Leesburg Middle School. I believe a middle school is for grades 6, 7, 8, and 9. Ages for the students in those grades are between 11 and 14? I am really wondering HOW a child between 11 and 14 years old KNOWS that they are gay or lesbian. They may have "mixed feelings" when changing for gym class around others of the same sex or in the shower with other students of the same sex but to have experienced gay or lesbian sex on a regular basis at that age seems, to me, to be very young - or to have experienced straight sex at those young ages, to me, seems very wrong, too.

Am I showing my age when I wonder HOW a child of between 11 and 14 is convinced they are gay or lesbian? I can understand an experimentation of sex both ways but to be convinced at that age...?

[jane032657]

I was Chairperson of the 3rd largest school board in British Columbia, vocal and straightforward in my opinions, topped the polls in the election, and a favorite of the media for speaking on behalf of the rights of children. I can barely breathe when I read such predijucial behavior of elected officials. Want to increase the suicide rates among youth? Want to create bullying and violence among students? Want to lower the self esteem and self worth of children? Want to alienate children who have their individual identities ridiculed? Want to create divisiveness? Want to create an educational environment that picks and chooses who can participate? Well, then support this initiative and see if you can live with yourself when the consequences of such outrageous decision making occurs. If you want to be a decision maker in education, then you better understand the children who you have been entrusted to make the best decisions for their well being, education, and safety in the public school system. If you cannot handle the responsibility, then please find another activity to satisfy your desire to have power and control over the lives of the most vulnerable, our children. Shame on you. We are each created as our own person; we are all equal;and we are all unique. Look in the mirror and see who stares back at you before you project your image to our precious children. And the ACLU are Nazi's? Does that mean our children should be in concentration camps? Please, leave our kids to be cared for by those who care for them. Every child deserves to be loved and nurtured, politicians do not get to pick and choose who can belong and who is left on the sidelines to be alone and humiliated. Our job, for all of us, is to create a safety net for all children and ensure they can navigate the road safely to adulthood without falling off a cliff. Do something to make a positive difference in the life of a child. It is surely going to be your ticket to your own road to heaven.

[Skybo]

I too am a bit confused about this. Are there other clubs in middle schools dedicated to sexual/romantic/lifestyle topics? On the one hand I applaud students, parents and school personnel who recognize the need for support, acceptance and anti-bullying. But on the other hand, I wonder how young is too young for sexually related topics to be introduced at schools, especially in the form of organized clubs.

[CFrance]

I too am a bit confused about this. Are there other clubs in middle schools dedicated to sexual/romantic/lifestyle topics? On the one hand I applaud students, parents and school personnel who recognize the need for support, acceptance and anti-bullying. But on the other hand, I wonder how young is too young for sexually related topics to be introduced at schools, especially in the form of organized clubs.

I believe that sexual orientation and sexual/romantic/lifestyle topics may be able to be separated. This group of middle schoolers, as the gay poster mentioned, already knows which way their orientation lies, may be having problems reconciling themselves to/living within the prevailing wind (especially with the school administration against them), and may be wanting to exist to address many topics other than sex itself.

And for the record, I personally do not believe the ACLU started or is causing a mess in our lives. I believe they are a good watchdog. They may go overboard on occasion, but they have provided good service. JMHO.

[Dancing Queen]

When I was in junior high in the early 70's I knew lots of girls in 7-9th grade who got pregant, and opted for an abortion, so no one would find out, they barrowed older girls Drivers Licenses which were paper with no photo, and they and their boyfriend paid cash for it.
Back then most LGBT were in the closet, and I knew my preferences at that young age, as the song says, I was Born this way.
Just look around at the kids of today, they are going through puberty in Early elementry school now.
I applaude all of you that are open minded, and care about the welfare of all human beings, and thank you for posting your comments here.
:mademyday:

[ilovetv]

How does a gender-identity and sexual-orientation club fit with the educational mission the schools are charged with, and with the Clubs list found at the Carver Middle School website. The clubs listed are:

Band, Bowling, Chorus, FBLA, Junior Beta, Robotics, Science Club, Student Council, Yearbook.

I also wonder how effective the Gay-Straight Alliance Club can be in stopping bullying, if the bullies do not join it. I'm assuming it would be voluntary to join the club.

To me a similar example would be this: Let's say there are similar tensions and hurtful behavior being done by thin students who mock and abuse fat students. There are, sadly, cases in which mocked/tormented fat students commit suicide. How would it improve relations if a Fat-Thin Alliance Club is formed at school, and the bullies and antagonists do not join the club? How are the perpetrators going to become more conscious of the plight and humanity of the victim, if they do not join the club?

School site: Carver Middle / Overview (http://lake.k12.fl.us/Page/9129)

[Golfingnut]

Hatred or violence used to drive out anyone different than you is still in our DNA and was a survival defense in the early existence of mankind. Survival of the fittest comes to mind. Modern man as evolved to accept and even embrace a change in that primitive mentality in an attempt to share this wonderful planet with everyone. Thankfully we have moved beyond some horrible words used to refer to others and now have these two examples:

R----d is now Mentally Challenged
Q---r is now Gay or Lesbian

Can you see the difference? You would be surprised how easy and liberating it can be to accept everyone for their differences rather than trying to drive them out of your cave.

[Monkei]

I think a club like this best accomplishment would be letting the individual that it is indeed OK to be gay or lesbian. The next accomplishment, which is even harder, would be convincing the hetero world that it is OK to be gay or lesbian.

[babbs455]

This young lady is a friend of my son at Carver Middle school. I can tell you that there is so much bullying going on there as well as other schools as well..Don't know what it is going to take to get this bullying to stop..ITS insane. They need to do something to deter this activity and if this will help I say have at it.

[billethkid]

no progress on stopping bullying due to the overwhelming need to be absolutely certain the bully'ss rights or feelings or their parents are not infringed upon. As a result, the victims become secondary.....another by product of a too permissive, NIMBY (not in my back yard) society.
It becomes more apparent each and every day.
btk

[senior citizen]

I too am a bit confused about this. Are there other clubs in middle schools dedicated to sexual/romantic/lifestyle topics? On the one hand I applaud students, parents and school personnel who recognize the need for support, acceptance and anti-bullying. But on the other hand, I wonder how young is too young for sexually related topics to be introduced at schools, especially in the form of organized clubs.

Well, I wasn't going to comment at all.......but in response to your question, back in about 1979, Planned Parenthood got a foothold in our Jr. High School which was 2 grades...7th grade and 8th grade. All of us parents felt the kids were too young for the things they were teaching. Not anatomical discussions but, case in point, things like putting a condom on a banana.

Dead serious. They slowly infiltrated all the schools. Vermont was a very conservative state at one time. It has totally changed since we arrived in 1970. I do realize "times have changed".....but parents of our age were not happy about what was taught, at that time, in Jr. High.

Middle School is now 6th grade to 8th grade and often it is even on the same campus as the high school which would be 9th grade to 12th grade.

I have no idea what is taught nowadays in our schools......but nothing would surprise me.......

[CFrance]

How does a gender-identity and sexual-orientation club fit with the educational mission the schools are charged with, and with the Clubs list found at the Carver Middle School website. The clubs listed are:

Band, Bowling, Chorus, FBLA, Junior Beta, Robotics, Science Club, Student Council, Yearbook.

I also wonder how effective the Gay-Straight Alliance Club can be in stopping bullying, if the bullies do not join it. I'm assuming it would be voluntary to join the club.

To me a similar example would be this: Let's say there are similar tensions and hurtful behavior being done by thin students who mock and abuse fat students. There are, sadly, cases in which mocked/tormented fat students commit suicide. How would it improve relations if a Fat-Thin Alliance Club is formed at school, and the bullies and antagonists do not join the club? How are the perpetrators going to become more conscious of the plight and humanity of the victim, if they do not join the club?

School site: Carver Middle / Overview (http://lake.k12.fl.us/Page/9129)

I believe the benefit of having a group like this--for gay kids, fat kids, any kids who are mocked or bullied--is in giving these kids a support group.

It could also lead to pressure being put on the schools to stop the bullying. You are right in saying these kids feel alone and that can lead to suicide. If one kids is saved from this terrible fate, it is a worthwhile club.

[DaleMN]

Must be a good conspiracy theory here somewhere. Good grief. :ohdear:

[redwitch]

Yes, there are gay/straight alliance clubs at other middle schools throughout the country. Do they stop bullying? Sometimes. What they definitely do do is give kids a place to talk, feel and know it is okay to be themselves.

Kids in middle school are pretty sure of their sexuality. They may not be comfortable with it, but they know their preferences. To be teased and bullied because a child is different is just plain wrong. To have adults condone and, in some way, approve of this bullying is downright evil. A school board that threatens to stop all extracurricular activities to stop one club for children that know they are different, that are harassed daily, that need help and guidance is evil and ugly. The school board should be starting programs to stop the bullying; to immediately suspend the offenders; to protect those being bullied whether gay, straight, mentally challenged or just different in any way. This school board has worked to cause even more harassment and fear.


Sorry, but this thread has just pushed so many buttons to me. I can remember an exchange student in 7th grade having her face slashed. Why? Because she from Israel and a "dirty Jew." I can remember a dear, intelligent friend dropping out of high school. Why? Because he couldn't handle the daily harassment of being flamboyantly gay. Back then, bullying was accepted as being normal for children. The thought was the bullies would grow up and become productive adults. Those bullied would get over it. Fortunately, that is no longer the case in most parts of the United States. Apparently, that is not the case in Lake County -- it still lives in the 50s and 60s. Bullying is wrong. Accepting bullying is contemptible. Condoning bullying is heinous. Causing more bullying is evil.

[Taltarzac725]

Must be a good conspiracy theory here somewhere. Good grief. :ohdear:

Probably just some over zealous parents who heard their preacher going on about gays rights and the decline of civilization as we know it. Unfortunately for this argument, many of the advances in culture here and abroad came from gay/lesbian/bi-sexual people.

[Moderator]

Please stay on the topic of the local middle school current events issue.

Posts and comments about the function and role of the ACLU will be deleted as it strays too far into political territory.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[paulandjean]

This young lady is a friend of my son at Carver Middle school. I can tell you that there is so much bullying going on there as well as other schools as well..Don't know what it is going to take to get this bullying to stop..ITS insane. They need to do something to deter this activity and if this will help I say have at it.

Seems You have first hand knowledge.Being a retired teacher, The first thing I would do,because there is so much bullying going on there,was organize. Have parents call in to the board of education that you will threaten to pull your students from that school.They would lose so much state aid,they will bw jumping in circles to fix the problems. Thats the one good thing,I can say about charter schools. Now there is a alternative..

[Golfingnut]

I am proud that we can discuss a Gay-Straight Alliance club today. If this topic came up when most of us were in school, it would have been a dangerous conversation. We have a long way to go in showing respect to ALL of our citizens, but that said, we have in fact came a long way. I am also hopeful as our generation dies out, the next one will make this world a better place for those still on the way. I hear so often here about the Good Ole Days, well I agree we have pockets of problems today, but overall I feel we are a better society to address and change issues like we discuss here and not drive them into back rooms. No one should live their life embarrassed nor ashamed of who they are. I am speaking of Sexual Origination, Race, Gender or choice of faith.

[ilovetv]

When I read the first article linked (Daily Commercial), I couldn't help but think there was more to the story. Something is missing from what's being reported. I looked around and googled other articles on the topic. One sentence here, from this article, has a key point:

Lake County School Board member Bill Mathias says the primary goal of the school board is to educate middle school students so only curriculum based clubs should be allowed.
Mathias said in high school, all clubs are allowed.
But Equality Florida member Michael Farmer says the school board is banning clubs across the board in middle school to avoid allowing a Gay/Straight Alliance Club.
Mathias said that's not true.
The school board attorney is working on the proposal and the school board will vote again on Monday.

I think "curriculum-based" is at the heart of the matter. To stereotype the entire school board, administration and district parents as a bunch of redneck haters, homophobes, and bigots, just because the school administration cannot be all things to all people....is stereotyping and bigotry too.

One problem is that when a club forms at school, there has to be a faculty advisor(s) for the club. The school district also assumes liability for all its clubs, students, and faculty while they're there and involved in school activities.

So. Let's say that a good and willing faculty advisor for the gay-straight alliance club would be a teacher who is gay or lesbian, because they have walked in the shoes of these students. Now consider that for decades, as an example, the U.S. military had a policy of "Don't ask, don't tell", that worked reasonably well. A lot of us don't really care to know what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. Changing this policy in the military became congressional-level demonstrations, protests, lobbying, etc. for years.

Why should the public schools get involved in such an emotional, controversial, extra-curricular club, when really, I believe this problem is due to the schools having their hands tied in recent decades when it comes to seriously and effectively disciplining bullies that are so evil they'd slash a girl's face!!!!

When school behavior gets so far out of control that you have students openly, physically abused for being different, this tells me that either the principal and assistants are absolutely useless, and/or their hands are tied legally against their being able to strongly discipline and boot out these awful perpetrators who are also enabled by their boorish parents. I have taught under school principals that are absolutely useless and just play the P.R. game, and I've also seen some of the best principals you could ever find have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to disciplining abusive students.

Also....I'm pretty sure there are lots of teachers who are homosexual, and I'm certain that my kids have had gay teachers.......but why does anybody in a public school need to KNOW that???? Quite a few times, while my kids were in high school and after I'd met their teachers and got to know them better in parent-teacher conferences, I'd ask my kids, "Is Mr. or Ms. So and So gay? I sense that they are because of this or that." Routinely their answer was, "I dunno.....who cares?" And I was glad they didn't care about that because that person is there to be a teacher, not a sexual-identity role model, nor a counseling psychologist which, by the way requires masters' and PhD degrees, clinical hours, licensure and continuing education!!!!

I think the real problem this school board is trying to deal with is a) not having the legal authority nor standing to strongly, finally discipline and nip in the bud these bullies and get them out if they don't shape up; and b) the board and administrators know their limitations and that they cannot be all things to all people.

I think a club like this belongs in the private sector of the community, in for example a community center like Boys & Girls Club or church youth groups, etc. if it's in line with their beliefs and they are prone to address that problem.

Besides that, any parent of one of the abused students can form a club for the victims and friends to meet at their house or wherever. I think the schools already have enough problems of their own without getting into this.

[redwitch]

I've added my comments in bold, italics and red to ilovetv's comments. Hopefully, this will work.

When I read the first article linked (Daily Commercial), I couldn't help but think there was more to the story. Something is missing from what's being reported. I looked around and googled other articles on the topic. One sentence here, from this article, has a key point:



I think "curriculum-based" is at the heart of the matter. To stereotype the entire school board, administration and district parents as a bunch of redneck haters, homophobes, and bigots, just because the school administration cannot be all things to all people....is stereotyping and bigotry too.

I don't think anyone has stereotyped an entire school board, administration or parents. We've railed against the possibility that the school board majority would even consider stopping this club from forming.

One problem is that when a club forms at school, there has to be a faculty advisor(s) for the club. The school district also assumes liability for all its clubs, students, and faculty while they're there and involved in school activities.

So. Let's say that a good and willing faculty advisor for the gay-straight alliance club would be a teacher who is gay or lesbian, because they have walked in the shoes of these students. Now consider that for decades, as an example, the U.S. military had a policy of "Don't ask, don't tell", that worked reasonably well. A lot of us don't really care to know what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. Changing this policy in the military became congressional-level demonstrations, protests, lobbying, etc. for years.

Don't ask, don't tell did not work. No matter how good a soldier was, if it become public knowledge that s/he was gay, they were out. Prior to don't ask, don't tell, homosexuality was flat-out banned.

Why should the public schools get involved in such an emotional, controversial, extra-curricular club, when really, I believe this problem is due to the schools having their hands tied in recent decades when it comes to seriously and effectively disciplining bullies that are so evil they'd slash a girl's face!!!!

The girl who got her face slashed occurred in 1963. The girls who slashed her face were charged and convicted of a crime but it would never have happened had the school not looked the other way at all of the previous incidents of bullying. Back then, bullying and hazing were accepted and, sadly, considered part of the process of growing up.

When school behavior gets so far out of control that you have students openly, physically abused for being different, this tells me that either the principal and assistants are absolutely useless, and/or their hands are tied legally against their being able to strongly discipline and boot out these awful perpetrators who are also enabled by their boorish parents. I have taught under school principals that are absolutely useless and just play the P.R. game, and I've also seen some of the best principals you could ever find have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to disciplining abusive students.

Also....I'm pretty sure there are lots of teachers who are homosexual, and I'm certain that my kids have had gay teachers.......but why does anybody in a public school need to KNOW that???? Quite a few times, while my kids were in high school and after I'd met their teachers and got to know them better in parent-teacher conferences, I'd ask my kids, "Is Mr. or Ms. So and So gay? I sense that they are because of this or that." Routinely their answer was, "I dunno.....who cares?" And I was glad they didn't care about that because that person is there to be a teacher, not a sexual-identity role model, nor a counseling psychologist which, by the way requires masters' and PhD degrees, clinical hours, licensure and continuing education!!!!

Don't think anyone necessarily needs to know but is there any reason why it has to be hidden? Should a gay teacher be prevented from having a lifetime partner or have to hide that partner from school functions when other teachers can bring their mates?

I think the real problem this school board is trying to deal with is a) not having the legal authority nor standing to strongly, finally discipline and nip in the bud these bullies and get them out if they don't shape up; and b) the board and administrators know their limitations and that they cannot be all things to all people.

The schools have a tremendous amount of authority to deal with bullying. Far more than they did in the past. However, it sounds like that this school board and school are not dealing with the bullies. By claiming that they will have to stop all extracurricular clubs because of this potential club, they will only increase the resentment and fear and, thus, exponentially increase the bullying.

I think a club like this belongs in the private sector of the community, in for example a community center like Boys & Girls Club or church youth groups, etc. if it's in line with their beliefs and they are prone to address that problem.

Besides that, any parent of one of the abused students can form a club for the victims and friends to meet at their house or wherever. I think the schools already have enough problems of their own without getting into this.

To force these kids to meet in the private sector announces to the other students that they are second-class students and can be treated accordingly. Maybe the schools would have a few less problems if they'd confront the underlying problem -- they have gay students that are being harassed and feel threatened. This the school's problem and should be addressed by the school and should have been addressed by the school long before the students felt a need to form such a club.

[Irishmen]

We had a well known bully in HS and in the gym he would pick slur on other kids perceived gay. Well what do you know, he turned out to be the biggest flame.

[Bogie Shooter]

We had a well known bully in HS and in the gym he would pick slur on other kids perceived gay. Well what do you know, he turned out to be the biggest flame.

Is "biggest flame" not a slur?

[gomoho]

Oh my!

[xNYer]

These are a few of the currently "permissible" clubs in Lake County Schools:

First Priority -- is a youth organization that supports student-initiated, student-led Christian clubs on middle school and high school campuses.

Fellowship of Christian Athletes -- All adult volunteers working with FCA are required affirm their agreement with FCA's Sexual Purity Policy as part of the Ministry Leader Application form. This policy states that "Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternate lifestyle acceptable to God."

Students Against Destructive Decisions

Multicultural Clubs

It appears to be more a matter of the school board difficulty in accepting the nature of the lesbian straight alliance, rather than there desire to have all clubs be academically based.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

These are a few of the currently "permissible" clubs in Lake County Schools:

First Priority -- is a youth organization that supports student-initiated, student-led Christian clubs on middle school and high school campuses.

Fellowship of Christian Athletes -- All adult volunteers working with FCA are required affirm their agreement with FCA's Sexual Purity Policy as part of the Ministry Leader Application form. This policy states that "Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternate lifestyle acceptable to God."

Students Against Destructive Decisions

Multicultural Clubs

It appears to be more a matter of the school board difficulty in accepting the nature of the lesbian straight alliance, rather than there desire to have all clubs be academically based.

I do believe you are absolutely correct.

[CycleChic]

Bullying is going to happen regardless of whether they are members of club or not. Do you not think that the band students are excluded from bulllying because the "club" status protects them? How about members of the chess club? Who's to say the gay students aren't bullying others?

I will say it. My friend's daughter went to that school. In 8th grade she was persuaded by a group of lesbian students to date another girl. My friend's daughter wasn't poplular, wasn't involved in any clubs, she was just an average student. When her mother found out she told her mom she really didn't want to date the other girl, but people thought she was "cool" for doing it and it made her feel "popular" for once in her life. Her daughter has since graduated high school, and she'll be the first to tell you that was the worst experience in her whole life and she regrets it 100%. She says she never had feelings for that girl, but she was too "weak" to say no. So tell me, will this "alliance" be there to promote and persuade? How may students will join this alliance thinking it will prevent them from being bullied?

Regarding bullying....Give the power back to the schools to discipline the students. This has been the biggest issue I have seen while raising two children in the Lake County School System.

[graciegirl]

I have been reading this thread because I really had no opinion on it.

I have always believed and still do that our sexual orientation was not a choice but rather a genetic situation at birth.

Everyone's contribution has added a lot to my thinking about whether a gay-straight club in a middle school would be good or bad for a person of that age.

Yesterday I was with friends, one who taught this age group for a long time and she presented her views to me and I could see this issue much clearer.

We do change each other's views on here.

I hope mine now is logical, caring, good for children and the world.

You all get an A for presenting your views so sincerely and mostly without malice.

I love Seniors.

[rp001]

These are a few of the currently "permissible" clubs in Lake County Schools:

First Priority -- is a youth organization that supports student-initiated, student-led Christian clubs on middle school and high school campuses.

Fellowship of Christian Athletes -- All adult volunteers working with FCA are required affirm their agreement with FCA's Sexual Purity Policy as part of the Ministry Leader Application form. This policy states that "Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternate lifestyle acceptable to God."

Students Against Destructive Decis.

Multicultural Clubs

It appears to be more a matter of the school board difficulty in accepting the nature of the lesbian straight alliance, rather than there desire to have all clubs be academically based.

Maybe this is the problem. I find any time any religion enters into these roles, the intolerance increases. It's the "My God is Better Than Your God" syndrome. There is way too much involvement in public schools by religions. I also believe that innocence recognizes things as they are, not as we say they are. Kids see through a lot of the things happening in society today. They know bullying and intolerance exist and try to overcome them as best they can, and they deserve our support, not condemnation. I also believe intolerance and bullying are not natural traits, they are TAUGHT, and probably by members of our generation.

[CFrance]

Maybe this is the problem. I find any time any religion enters into these roles, the intolerance increases. It's the "My God is Better Than Your God" syndrome. There is way too much involvement in public schools by religions. I also believe that innocence recognizes things as they are, not as we say they are. Kids see through a lot of the things happening in society today. They know bullying and intolerance exist and try to overcome them as best they can, and they deserve our support, not condemnation. I also believe intolerance and bullying are not natural traits, they are TAUGHT, and probably by members of our generation.



I respectfully disagree with this. Bullying comes naturally to some, depending on their personality type. I believe it is our generation, and the ones before us, who tolerated this bullying as "a right of passage," and did not TEACH the bullying types that this type of behavior is wrong.

And the schools are complicit in this ignorance. (And I mean "ignorance" in the sense of ignoring a big problem.) It's long been time for a change from the top down.

[paulandjean]

Thank You for private schools.Seems all of these problems stem from public schools.

[Bogie Shooter]

Thank You for private schools.Seems all of these problems stem from public schools.

Informative article in Miami Herald on Charter Schools.
Financial problems close three charter schools in Broward - Schools - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/14/3002151/three-charter-schools-to-close.html)

"Nationally, about 12 percent of charter schools opened in the last 20 years have closed, but in Florida, that closure rate is double, according to state figures. Florida’s XXXXXXXXXX-controlled Legislature has strongly encouraged charter school growth — even allocating school construction dollars exclusively to charters. But critics of charter schools complain the state isn’t doing enough oversight"

[paulandjean]

Informative article in Miami Herald on Charter Schools.
Financial problems close three charter schools in Broward - Schools - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/14/3002151/three-charter-schools-to-close.html)

"Nationally, about 12 percent of charter schools opened in the last 20 years have closed, but in Florida, that closure rate is double, according to state figures. Florida’s XXXXXXXXXX-controlled Legislature has strongly encouraged charter school growth — even allocating school construction dollars exclusively to charters. But critics of charter schools complain the state isn’t doing enough oversight"

I was there when the first Charter Schools were started. I said then this is a very very bad idea.It is no surprse to me.

[paulandjean]

Surprise

[CycleChic]

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

[skyc6]

Bullying can go on everywhere, but the most important part of the bullying equation is not the bully or the victim. It is teaching the "bystanders" what to do. If a 5 or 6 of them call the bully out and calmly, without threatening, tell the bully that what he/she is doing is wrong, makes them look foolish, or humorously sort of gently laugh the bully out of the room, it can be very powerful. Sometimes these clubs can be advocates for any student who needs help in handling difficult situations, and teaches tolerance for all differences.
A LGBT club is not involved with promoting their situations, but rather it helps to teach them how to function in a world where they are in the minority. It is a club open to anyone, and sometimes who are not LGBT will join and become an advocate for students wh need help.
There is also a MS/HS organization call Natural Helpers that many schools have and this type of club can be a great benefit to students.
To say only curriculum clubs should be allowed doesn't recognize that we need to educate the whole child, and that includes the emotional, social, intellectual, and physical. All those areas are necessary to function in our society as young adults.

[rubicon]

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

[Golfingnut]

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

I see it totally opposite. I grew up being taught to love thy neighbor and do unto others regardless of their race, sexual orientation/ gender etc. I was never under the belief that everything is a conspiracy and only meant to harm me. After 65 years I now believe that is definitely TRUE. I am so thankful I see the glass half full rather than half empty.

:MOJE_whot:

[paulandjean]

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

Not sure if I agree with that first sentence.

[CarolSells]

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

:bigbow:

Thank you! I've been waiting all-thread long for someone to say this! Seems to me that many schools have their plates full just trying to teach the three R's today! And there is so much more to teach today! My granddaughter is in Kindergarten. Her classroom is all about computers and technology and learning. (She happens to be reading on a 3rd grade level!)

I believe that schools should be allowed to discipline students but the issue of bullying is a parenting problem!

Hold these "support" groups off campus!

[skyc6]

[QUOTE=ilovetv;628349]When I read the first article linked (Daily Commercial), I couldn't help but think there was more to the story. Something is missing from what's being reported. I looked around and googled other articles on the topic. One sentence here, from this article, has a key point:



I think "curriculum-based" is at the heart of the matter. To stereotype the entire school board, administration and district parents as a bunch of redneck haters, homophobes, and bigots, just because the school administration cannot be all things to all people....is stereotyping and bigotry too.

One problem is that when a club forms at school, there has to be a faculty advisor(s) for the club. The school district also assumes liability for all its clubs, students, and faculty while they're there and involved in school activities.

So. Let's say that a good and willing faculty advisor for the gay-straight alliance club would be a teacher who is gay or lesbian, because they have walked in the shoes of these students. Now consider that for decades, as an example, the U.S. military had a policy of "Don't ask, don't tell", that worked reasonably well. A lot of us don't really care to know what people do in the privacy of their bedroom. Changing this policy in the military became congressional-level demonstrations, protests, lobbying, etc. for years.

Why should the public schools get involved in such an emotional, controversial, extra-curricular club, when really, I believe this problem is due to the schools having their hands tied in recent decades when it comes to seriously and effectively disciplining bullies that are so evil they'd slash a girl's face!!!!

When school behavior gets so far out of control that you have students openly, physically abused for being different, this tells me that either the principal and assistants are absolutely useless, and/or their hands are tied legally against their being able to strongly discipline and boot out these awful perpetrators who are also enabled by their boorish parents. I have taught under school principals that are absolutely useless and just play the P.R. game, and I've also seen some of the best principals you could ever find have their hands tied behind their back when it comes to disciplining abusive students.

Also....I'm pretty sure there are lots of teachers who are homosexual, and I'm certain that my kids have had gay teachers.......but why does anybody in a public school need to KNOW that???? Quite a few times, while my kids were in high school and after I'd met their teachers and got to know them better in parent-teacher conferences, I'd ask my kids, "Is Mr. or Ms. So and So gay? I sense that they are because of this or that." Routinely their answer was, "I dunno.....who cares?" And I was glad they didn't care about that because that person is there to be a teacher, not a sexual-identity role model, nor a counseling psychologist which, by the way requires masters' and PhD degrees, clinical hours, licensure and continuing education!!!!

I think the real problem this school board is trying to deal with is a) not having the legal authority nor standing to strongly, finally discipline and nip in the bud these bullies and get them out if they don't shape up; and b) the board and administrators know their limitations and that they cannot be all things to all people.

I think a club like this belongs in the private sector of the community, in for example a community center like Boys & Girls Club or church youth groups, etc. if it's in line with their beliefs and they are prone to address that problem.

Besides that, any parent of one of the abused students can form a club for the victims and friends to meet at their house or wherever. I think the schools already have enough problems of their own without getting into this.[/QUOTe

The suggestion that bullies can be "gotten out if they don't shape up" is very misleading. Our laws guarantee an education, even mandate an education, and until laws are broken, the bully will be in school There may be suspensions, etc., but you cannot expel a student for being a bully.

It is also not realistic to say that all parents must provide sex education for their children. Some parents are absent, have left their families, are drug addicts, pedophiles, in prison, or are crackheads.

[CycleChic]

Not sure if I agree with that first sentence.

I know for a FACT of two private schools located in Lake County, both are based out of churches, that have students enrolled in classes that have been "removed" from Lake County Schools due to severe behavioral problems. The almightly dollar can buy a misbehaving child a spot anywhere.

I also know a woman who works in a Christian preschool in Lake County. She has a student that has bitten her on the arms and hit her so hard it has bruised her. The student still remains in her class because the parents "are large contributors" to the church. Other students in that same preschool have been asked to leave for far less offenses.

This is what I call monetary bullying....the parent with the most money wins.

And I agree with someone's statement earlier that it begins at home...parents don't raise their children with any morals or values anymore. They just ship them off to school and expect others to do it for them.

[billethkid]

I happen to side with ilovetv (post#21) and senior citizen (post#26). to wit what right does a school have in intefering in what is a parent's domain. This is not about bullying, sex education but it is about indoctrination and follows the plans cited in "The Overhauling of Straight America by Marsahll Kirk and Erastes Pill (circa 1987) wherein the gay community with the assistance of liberals is pushing the gay agenda via television, schools, etc.

I knew my sexual preference at very young age and demonstrated it when they threw me out of kindergarten class because I loved kissing girls. However, the fact is that psychologically many young people are confused about their sexuality. However, parents send their kids to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic .

I do not believe that sexual education classes of any kind belong in schools. the argument use to be that if left uneducated girls would get pregnant, etc. Well sex education programs abound and guess what the pregnancy rate is in the stratsophere. How's that working out for everyone?

My children are grown and I have no grand children but if I did the last place I want them learning about sex would be in schools. If someone wants a straight/gay alliance fine but do it outside of school and leaving school for teaching kids academics

I 100% agree. Just what is it that is in the teacher's training that qulifies them to teach children in their care about sex??? Absolutely nothing other than their own particular leaning which is totally and completely unacceptable. They, the teachers, are challenged enough as it is to teach the basic curriculum.

Sex education belongs at home....like it or not. School administrators at any level....ANY LEVEL.....are not qulified. And now the outlook of the 21st century that it is OK for anything goes has more than complicated the birds and the bees concept....eh??!!??

If I had a kid in school they would be opted out of sex education....thank GOD I am way past having kids in school anymore. Today's attitudes would not want me in their PTA meetings!!!!!

btk

[paulandjean]

I know for a FACT of two private schools located in Lake County, both are based out of churches, that have students enrolled in classes that have been "removed" from Lake County Schools due to severe behavioral problems. The almightly dollar can buy a misbehaving child a spot anywhere.

I also know a woman who works in a Christian preschool in Lake County. She has a student that has bitten her on the arms and hit her so hard it has bruised her. The student still remains in her class because the parents "are large contributors" to the church. Other students in that same preschool have been asked to leave for far less offenses.

This is what I call monetary bullying....the parent with the most money wins.

And I agree with someone's statement earlier that it begins at home...parents don't raise their children with any morals or values anymore. They just ship them off to school and expect others to do it for them.
yes of course, I retired from a private school. We would many many times take students expelled from public schools. We would have better discipline of that student from a public school.More of a family atmosphere in a private school. Remember one student expelled from inner-city school for carrying a gun. We took him in our small inner-city private and he did excellent. Something about those IHM nuns that will do it to you.

[CycleChic]

I 100% agree. Just what is it that is in the teacher's training that qulifies them to teach children in their care about sex??? Absolutely nothing other than their own particular leaning which is totally and completely unacceptable. They, the teachers, are challenged enough as it is to teach the basic curriculum.

Sex education belongs at home....like it or not. School administrators at any level....ANY LEVEL.....are not qulified. And now the outlook of the 21st century that it is OK for anything goes has more than complicated the birds and the bees concept....eh??!!??

If I had a kid in school they would be opted out of sex education....thank GOD I am way past having kids in school anymore. Today's attitudes would not want me in their PTA meetings!!!!!

btk

I agree with you.

When I had children in school, I opted out of sex ed for both of my children. I felt this was a subject I wanted to discuss with my children, not a teacher in a classroom with a whole class waiting to hear what questions someone might ask. I also did not agree that in elementary school they were wanting to discuss "self gratification" with children. The belief behind this was that if children could "learn" how to do this, they wouldn't try to have intercourse. Really???? I often wondered just how much detail they went into regarding this.

What I did find interesting was the note they sent home was to be signed ONLY if you did NOT want your child to participate. To me, this is backwards. What if the note never made it home? Did the school just assume that your child has permission?

[Bogie Shooter]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

[graciegirl]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

Boy Howdy and oh my.

Lots needed Bill.

[paulandjean]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
Bill, we have a new topic that requires popcorn..........................

Then join in.

[CFrance]

If anyone thinks this only happens at PUBLIC schools...then you are sadly mistaken. Private & Christian Schools are where students that are kicked out of/expelled from public schools end up.
Charter schools are far from perfect. I had the opportunity to enroll my children in a local charter school, both of my children begged me not to make them go. My daughter actually broke down in tears when she thought I was sending her there. They were quick to inform me that the charter students they played club soccer with or danced with at a local dance studio were the bullies, very verbally abusive towards anyone that did not attend their school.
Bullying happens everywhere....at school, at home, in the workplace, etc. Society always has and always will have bullies. We can either try our best to teach our youth how to handle it, or close our eyes and pretend that putting them in a charter school protects them from everything that is wrong with our world.
And like I stated before...put DISCIPLINE back into the schools. A few cracks across my backside from my father back in the day made me think twice before I did something wrong. Children used to fear a trip to the principal's office, now it's like a badge of honor for the students to make that trip.

Bullying can go on everywhere, but the most important part of the bullying equation is not the bully or the victim. It is teaching the "bystanders" what to do. If a 5 or 6 of them call the bully out and calmly, without threatening, tell the bully that what he/she is doing is wrong, makes them look foolish, or humorously sort of gently laugh the bully out of the room, it can be very powerful. Sometimes these clubs can be advocates for any student who needs help in handling difficult situations, and teaches tolerance for all differences.
A LGBT club is not involved with promoting their situations, but rather it helps to teach them how to function in a world where they are in the minority. It is a club open to anyone, and sometimes who are not LGBT will join and become an advocate for students wh need help.
There is also a MS/HS organization call Natural Helpers that many schools have and this type of club can be a great benefit to students.
To say only curriculum clubs should be allowed doesn't recognize that we need to educate the whole child, and that includes the emotional, social, intellectual, and physical. All those areas are necessary to function in our society as young adults.

Amen and Amen! Thank you for those articulate responses. :bigbow:

[CFrance]

:bigbow:

Thank you! I've been waiting all-thread long for someone to say this! Seems to me that many schools have their plates full just trying to teach the three R's today! And there is so much more to teach today! My granddaughter is in Kindergarten. Her classroom is all about computers and technology and learning. (She happens to be reading on a 3rd grade level!)

I believe that schools should be allowed to discipline students but the issue of bullying is a parenting problem!

Hold these "support" groups off campus!

I SO disagree with this. Most parents don't even know their kids are bullying, because it's taking place in school, or after school on the bus, or out of their viewing in the neighborhood playground. You can think you're doing the most wonderful job of raising your kids, but you absolutely don't know everything they're doing. I repeat my earlier statement: bullies evolve from a certain personality type. If you're not following your child around day, you may not know he or she is bullying. If the school doesn't step up to stop this problem, it's going to continue.

I have had personal experience with this when our younger son was new to his school way back when (fourth grade). The school refused to help. The parents of the bullier were the nicest people but had their heads in the sand toward this problem with their child. We had to take our own steps to avoid this kid and protect our child physically and emotionally.

This is a school matter and needs to be addressed by the school. Parents of bullyers will not step up unless the school steps in.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

I SO disagree with this. Most parents don't even know their kids are bullying, because it's taking place in school, or after school on the bus, or out of their viewing in the neighborhood playground. You can think you're doing the most wonderful job of raising your kids, but you absolutely don't know everything they're doing. I repeat my earlier statement: bullies evolve from a certain personality type. If you're not following your child around day, you may not know he or she is bullying. If the school doesn't step up to stop this problem, it's going to continue.

I have had personal experience with this when our younger son was new to his school way back when (fourth grade). The school refused to help. The parents of the bullier were the nicest people but had their heads in the sand toward this problem with their child. We had to take our own steps to avoid this kid and protect our child physically and emotionally.

This is a school matter and needs to be addressed by the school. Parents of bullyers will not step up unless the school steps in.

I agree...and I am in shock at all of the naïveté shown on some of these posts. Did not most of our children grow up in the 80's and 90's.....and were we not children of the 60's and 70's???? Does no one else remember the reality of all of this?????

I remember my childhood and teen years....and I know the stories my children now tell of theirs...something's I already knew....something's I did not want to know....regardless....nothing shocks me anymore. However I still want my grandchildren to know the real life.

I want them to know the bullies are wrong and that we should defend those that are being mistreated. I want them to LOVE all people no matter who they are....no matter what they look like or what religion they practice or who they are married to or what color they are!!!!

I want them to live a life of honor and love and acceptance.....but I want them to be knowledgeable about life and I want them to know what reality...how is it that no one else remembers that last 50 years???
:shocked:

[ilovetv]

From what I have seen, a pro-active, smart, capable school principal and assistants can stop bullies in their tracks and put them out of business fast....if they want to and don't bury their heads in the sand.

And strong disciplinarian principals and assistants also MUST back up the classroom teacher in stopping the bully in the classroom and playground, and the principals must actively respond to reports of bullies on the bus, too.

These are all situations in which the parents of the victim cannot do much for their child and they HAVE to rely on the principals and assistants for such help. The administrators need to have the authority restored to them to take strong disciplinary measures against bullying.

I think that strong administrators can do a whole lot more to nip bullying in the bud than kids empathizing with each other and learning tactics for standing up to the bullies, in a club. That's not to say they should have the empathy nor learn to defend themselves, but to say that the adults in charge of the school are both responsible for stopping it and are in a much better position to deal with the bully than parents and victims are.

[buggyone]

I saw an article on this Gay Alliance Club in the Orlando Sentinel today. The girl who wants to start it was pictured with her mother and some other supporters. The girl was identified by picture and name - and the article said she is a 14 year old bisexual.

I know I am not alone when I say it is way too young for a 14 year old girl to be identified as a bisexual. I am assuming that the 14 year old girl has had sexual partners of both male and female so as to know she considers herself to be bisexual. They should not even know if they are at that young an age. Even in Florida, a 14 year old cannot give consent for sex. I know I will receive postings about this saying I do not know what I am talking about.

What is the girl's mother doing supporting her daughter's sexual activity at age 14? Ridiculous! :ohdear:

I also will get postings about what I am now going to say. I believe that a person's sexuality is a result of "nurture" and not of "nature". I do not believe that a gay or lesbian person is born that way. It is from the nurturing they receive one way or another or from an incident(s) that happened.

No where in this posting will you see anything from me that is homophobic so please do not get on me about that. I celebrate all diversity.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

Perhaps not homophobic but you must not know any lgbt people....and if you know, you do not know them well. I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process.

[Tellmeyourstory....]

And as for a 14 year old knowing she is attracted to both girls and boys.....why is that any different than a 14 yr old boy knowing he likes girls or a girl liking a boy....they clearly know they are attracted or that they like them....but does that mean they have had sex with them? Ridiculous!

[graciegirl]

Perhaps not homophobic but you must not know any lgbt people....and if you know, you do not know them well. I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process.

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

[skyc6]

I agree...and I am in shock at all of the naïveté shown on some of these posts. Did not most of our children grow up in the 80's and 90's.....and were we not children of the 60's and 70's???? Does no one else remember the reality of all of this?????

I remember my childhood and teen years....and I know the stories my children now tell of theirs...something's I already knew....something's I did not want to know....regardless....nothing shocks me anymore. However I still want my grandchildren to know the real life.

I want them to know the bullies are wrong and that we should defend those that are being mistreated. I want them to LOVE all people no matter who they are....no matter what they look like or what religion they practice or who they are married to or what color they are!!!!

I want them to live a life of honor and love and acceptance.....but I want them to be knowledgeable about life and I want them to know what reality...how is it that no one else remembers that last 50 years???
:shocked:

Bullying and teaching tolerance should be a part of every school's curriculum. Our suicide rate is escalating every year, and some of it stems from bullying. Victims of bullies have become violent and found guns to do damage with. Some of this could be prevented!
Sometimes all that needs to happen is a teacher taking the time to explain to the whole class, with the victim and bully present, why some people bully. When you explain that bullies are very insecure people with emotoinal concerns, who don't quite feel that they measure up and therefore take their frustrations out on someone they think will not retaliate, without naming any names, it can free up the rest of the kids to discuss how to handle the situation. The bully will have to sit there and listen, but of course no names are used. You can even do role playing with certain age groups, and call on the bully to play the part of the victim. It is eye opening!
There are many ways to address this in earlier years, but if it isn't addressed until middle school, you have an angry preteen on your hands, and a more difficult job to do, but it still needs to be addressed.
As far as sex education, it is only information. There is always a prescribed curriculum, and information and knowledge does not cause harm; lack of information can cause much more harm. Understanding correct terms and basic biology is not going to hurt a child. If the information is over their heads, they filter it out and don't recall it very well. I always felt that if the child has the question, they deserve an answer.

[Suzi]

To call yourself bi-sexual implies you ARE sexual with males and females. We are not talking attraction/friends/confidants etc. I'm not sure bragging about any "sexuality" is appropriate for a 14 year old boy or girl but what concern me more, is the picture of the girl. I think this is a travesty to have a child's picture plastered for everyone to see, gossip about etc. We have rules in this country to protect children - and thats even if they don't want protection. Do we publish pictures of children who have been abused, injured, famous parents? No, we always protect their identity. This is needless EXPOSURE of a child - yes a 14 year old child! An article OK - but pictures are criminal.

I applaud everyone who has shared their feelings about this topic. This is a good discourse about timely subjects.

[skyc6]

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.
I quite agree with Gracie! Tolerance has to be predicated on respect for those who think differently than you.
I have experienced the wonderful respect students can have for sensitive topics, if the correct tone and expectations are set beforehand. It really is possible to help young people to become responsible caring adults by helping them understand complex issues.
I have said quite enough and so I say Goodnight! :);)

[Golfingnut]

Buggy one is a reasonable person and not ignorant. I have met him in person and read most of his posts on many issues and although we don't always agree, I see him as a decent and thoughtful person. Many people do not think that a persons sexual orientation is established at birth. That is how they view sexuality.

However science does seem to establish that is a fact. It appears that a persons sexual orientation is a genetic condition. I think a persons responsible sexual behavior is guided through nurture even though their orientation can never be changed by nurture. I can see where someone would be troubled by seeing young teens in the spotlight on the issue of sexual choices, homosexual or heterosexual.

All intelligent and respectful discourse goes out the window when someone calls someone else ignorant. I think you just said that you want your grandchildren to grow up respecting all others regardless.

This is a very sensitive issue for most people. Understanding another kind of sexual orientation is not easy for most people.

You nailed it with that paragraph Gracie. Some of us not believing in Fact makes it hard to open our eyes to reality. Fact should not be based on what we like, but rather on what is TRUE.

[buggyone]

" I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process. "

It would have been reasonable for the poster to disagree with me in a scholarly way (like GracieGirl and GolfingNut) but that poster lost all credibility with their rant of my viewpoint. This is supposed to be a forum where all can post their viewpoints.

Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I do thank Gracie for her kind comments about me. That is enough for me on this subject. Next subject, please.

[paulandjean]

" I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process. "

It would have been reasonable for the poster to disagree with me in a scholarly way (like GracieGirl and GolfingNut) but that poster lost all credibility with their rant of my viewpoint. This is supposed to be a forum where all can post their viewpoints.

Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I do thank Gracie for her kind comments about me. That is enough for me on this subject. Next subject, please.

So what do you think of the Tigers this season?

[Tellmeyourstory....]

" I can't even take any more time discussing the ignorance of your comments. Nature versus nurture?! I sure hope there are not any parents on here that could be horrified at that comment....and I know that any LGBT people would also be upset and should be outraged at that type of thought process. "

It would have been reasonable for the poster to disagree with me in a scholarly way (like GracieGirl and GolfingNut) but that poster lost all credibility with their rant of my viewpoint. This is supposed to be a forum where all can post their viewpoints.

Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I do thank Gracie for her kind comments about me. That is enough for me on this subject. Next subject, please.


You said again....
Yes, when a 14 year old child states they are bi-sexual, it definitely implies they have had sexual encounters with both sexes. It is not just having both male and female friends. As I stated in my first post, 14 years old is not the age of consent - even in the backward state of Florida.

I did not say just friends....I said they "liked" them or was attracted to them.

A person can know that they are attracted to someone....but it in no way means they have had any sexual relations...or even physical contact.

You can certainly post your opinion...but you may want to avoid putting false information. You did not state it was your opinion...you stated what seemed to be read as a fact....but it was not a fact at all.