The truth about fish oil

[jimbo2012]

consider the benefits of fish oil — along with the toxins, side effects and sustainability issues.

http://www.mnn.com/sites/default/files/editorial/shutterstock_49423057.jpg

Toxins can be a problem
Although the good omega-3s reside in the fatty tissue of fish, that is also the very place where environmental contaminates bioaccumulate, which means that oil derived from these tissues may contain high concentrations of environmental contaminants.

Heavy metals such as arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury come to us by way of industry and are not easily broken down, and thus end up throughout the environment at low levels, especially in fish. And fish oil. Adverse effects from ingesting heavy metals can include cognitive impairments, nervous system dysfunction, blindness, lack of coordination, deafness, development of certain cancers, irreversible liver and kidney damage and death.

Along with heavy metals, there are also other toxic compounds that bioaccumulate in fish. Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) can lead to skin problems, muscle spasms, chronic bronchitis and nervous system disorders; and dioxins and furans have been linked to a number of adverse health effects including skin, liver and immune system problems, endocrine and reproductive disruptions and the development of certain cancers.

One of the trickiest parts about navigating which fish to eat, for many people, is figuring out which fish have the least amount of toxins versus which fish are sustainable. To help with similar issues when selecting fish oil, you can check with the International Fish Oil Standards Program (IFOS) which is a third party toxin testing and accreditation program for omega-3 fish oil products.

Fish oil is served with a side of side effects
We generally don’t consider the impact of side effects with our nutritional supplements, you know, the things we take to make us healthier. But fish oil offers side effects in spades. Here is a list from the Mayo Clinic. (Just for fun, read them in the hushed, calming tone of an actor listing prescription drug side effects on a television commercial.)

Fish oil supplements may cause nausea, diarrhea, loose stools, decreased appetite, constipation, vomiting and fat in the stool. Gastrointestinal side effects may be minimized if fish oils are taken with meals and if doses are started low and gradually increased.

There are rare reports of mania in patients with bipolar disorder or major depression. Restlessness and formication (the sensation of ants crawling on the skin) have also been reported.

Other potential side effects include loss of short-term memory, headache, hemolytic anemia, depression, somatic disorders, increased risk of colon cancer, nasopharyngitis, worsening of asthma symptoms, decreased physical activity, increased appetite, increased blood pressure and an uncomfortable feeling.

Omega-3 fatty acids may increase blood sugar levels. Caution is advised in patients with diabetes or hypoglycemia, and for those taking drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Blood glucose levels may need to be monitored by a qualified healthcare professional, including a pharmacist.

Omega-3 fatty acids may increase low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, may worsen symptoms for patients with ventricular tachycardia, may increase the risk of bleeding, and may decrease blood pressure.

Fish oil taken for many months may cause a deficiency of vitamin E and may increase the risk of vitamin A or D toxicity — so use large amounts cautiously.

Individuals at risk for hormone imbalance or those undergoing hormone replacement therapy should use cautiously, as decreased estrogen receptor production has been associated with fish oil supplementation.

Patients with asthma, inflammatory bowel disease, or liver disease, and patients at risk for colon cancer should use cautiously, based on potential adverse effects associated with fish oil use.

The moral of the story here: Check with your doctor before taking fish oil.

[mulligan]

But when 4 different doctors recommend fish oil capsules for heart health, take them.

[jimbo2012]

that's because they are not up to speed with the latest finding, they can & do more harm.

Think what to fish eat mostly........plants

[missypie]

Thanks for the info. I will stop taking my fish oil tablets now.

[pooh]

Please read this and if you are taking supplements on the advice of your physican, do not stop or increase dosage without consulting him or her.

Julie Chen, M.D.: Can We Take Too Much Fish Oil? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-chen-md/fish-oil_b_1886796.html)

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/993.html

[justjim]

Please read this and if you are taking supplements on the advice of your physican, do not stop or increase dosage without consulting him or her.

Julie Chen, M.D.: Can We Take Too Much Fish Oil? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-chen-md/fish-oil_b_1886796.html)

Fish oil: MedlinePlus Supplements (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/993.html)

:coolsmiley: "Do not stop or increase dosage (fish oil) without consulting him or her (your doctor)". Good advise. The pro and con of taking fish oil reminds me of the bulls and bears of the stock market. You can find some really "bright" doctors on both sides----just as you can find really "bright" stock brokers on both sides of the "time to buy or time to sell" discussion. Bottom line---until I see more......I'm taking my fish oil everyday with the approval of my doctor.

[aussiemom]

You have to watch what brand you buy due to where they get their fish oil. I was told by a few doctors to buy Nordic Naturals.......purity and strict standards of Norwegian fish and shown not to be contaminated. Costs are a bit more but worth it.

[graciegirl]

:coolsmiley: "Do not stop or increase dosage (fish oil) without consulting him or her (your doctor)". Good advise. The pro and con of taking fish oil reminds me of the bulls and bears of the stock market. You can find some really "bright" doctors on both sides----just as you can find really "bright" stock brokers on both sides of the "time to buy or time to sell" discussion. Bottom line---until I see more......I'm taking my fish oil everyday with the approval of my doctor.

Sweetie is taking a fish oil tablet every day as part of a research program under the direction of Harvard School of Medicine.

I believe it is making him even better looking.:coolsmiley:

[Golfingnut]

Sweetie is taking a fish oil tablet every day as part of a research program under the direction of Harvard School of Medicine.

I believe it is making him even better looking.:coolsmiley:

I think your right Gracie, after seeing him at Crispers I gotta say hes pretty hot for a guy over 50.

[Arubagirl2000]

When my husband takes fish oil, his triglycerides are lower. He did not believe fish oil really made a difference, so between his bloodwk tests last year - 3 months apart - he stopped taking it and his triglycerides went really high. He has a history of heart problems and it is impt to keep them low.

[A-4 Skyhawk]

Jimbo . . . . Buddy . . . . you need a good Rib-Eye Steak. :mmmm:
It'll make you Regular :boom: :shocked: and you'll go out with a smile on your face:)
See you at EP tomorrow night :beer3:

[OldDave]

For what it's worth, my doctor suggested last week I began talking it to lower cholestrol. Although he suggested krill oil instead of the regular fish oil. Mega Red is the brand name one. It is certified to only come from krill taken in Antarctic waters which is theoretically cleaner than most places on earth. I do notice it is 300mg. Some of the off brand stuff comes in much larger sizes. I can imagine that could really increase the dangers. I'm afraid we have a lot of people who think if one vitamin or supplement is good then two must be better. For some of the water-soluable stuff that's not much of a worry, but for all others, it is very dangerous to take more. It can overcome the liver and cause damage That may be the same thing here.

(krill are the tiny shrimp that whales live on)

[jimbo2012]

When my husband takes fish oil, his triglycerides are lower. He did not believe fish oil really made a difference, so between his bloodwk tests last year - 3 months apart - he stopped taking it and his triglycerides went really high. He has a history of heart problems and it is impt to keep them low.

If he has a history you folks should see the documentary Forks over Knives, that risk can be greatly diminished if you pay attention to the details in the movie.

U can get a copy at Barnes & Nobel, it may be the best $$ U ever spent.

[jimbo2012]

Jimbo . . . . Buddy . . . . you need a good Rib-Eye Steak. you'll go out with a smile on your face:)


the problem with that idea my friend is that smile will come sooner rather than later.

Oh as far as regular.....do you mean regular visits to the drug store to have scripts filled:1rotfl:

[justjim]

Sweetie is taking a fish oil tablet every day as part of a research program under the direction of Harvard School of Medicine.

I believe it is making him even better looking.:coolsmiley:

Boy Howdy---been wondering why I've been getting more attention lately!

[SoccerCoach]

One should research pharmaceutical grade purified fish oil. It can be had without prescription, from the manufacturer. The otc types will not provide the benefits you may be seeking. Do the research before acting, and speak to your doctor.

[wendyquat]

I think your right Gracie, after seeing him at Crispers I gotta say hes pretty hot for a guy over 50.


Who says he's over 50? :a040:

[railroadman]

When my husband takes fish oil, his triglycerides are lower. He did not believe fish oil really made a difference, so between his bloodwk tests last year - 3 months apart - he stopped taking it and his triglycerides went really high. He has a history of heart problems and it is impt to keep them low.

I am a big fan of Dr. Oz. He said in his show today, he takes Krill Oil and said it was much better for you, than fish oil.

[Villages PL]

In my opinion, fish oil is a "remedy" for those who eat poor diets (i.e., lots of red meat and eggs etc.). The reason: They eat foods that are high in omega 6 and fish oil contains omega 3. So the fish oil, for them, helps to bring better balance between the omega 6 and omega 3.

So, fish oil is good for some people, as a prop, the same way a stint or bypass is good for those who have clogged arteries. And the need for all these items stems from eating a poor diet.

[Shimpy]

The moral of the story here: Check with your doctor before taking fish oil.



My experience with that and with several doctors is that they haven't a clue. Their training includes almost nothing to do with nutrition.

[jimbo2012]

My experience with that and with several doctors is that they haven't a clue. Their training includes almost nothing to do with nutrition.

Bingo, very true :ohdear::ohdear:

[aljetmet]

that's because they are not up to speed with the latest finding, they can & do more harm.

Think what to fish eat mostly........plants

And so do you!!!! Just kidding you my friend. My doc has me on Fish pills... She's a young doc that keeps up with everything. We're gonna miss her.....

[aljetmet]

Sweetie is taking a fish oil tablet every day as part of a research program under the direction of Harvard School of Medicine.

I believe it is making him even better looking.:coolsmiley:

Dee and I are now going to double our dose! Thanks for the tip!:bigbow:

[Villages PL]

It's true that doctors are not nutritionists but it's suggested that you see your doctor before taking fish oil or anything else, if you are being treated for heart disease etc.. The reason: You may be taking a blood thiner or aspirin. If you then start taking fish oil, you will thin your blood even more. And there's a point at which your blood may become too thin.

If your blood becomes too thin and you start bleeding in your brains (i.e., a stroke) they may not be able to stop the bleeding. Or, if you need emergency surgery for any reason, they may not be able to stop the bleeding.

Also, if your blood is too thin, which can happen just from eating oily fish everyday, you will often notice that you bruse easily. Many years ago I started eating sardines every day for lunch. My blood got so thin that my hands got black 'n' blue from playing volleyball.

[billethkid]

We take fish oil every day. My wife is on warfarin and I am on plavix.
She gets her blood level checked every month....almost 20 years no problem.

Both of our cardiologists are well aware with no commentary. They are more concerned with one eating too many dark green veggies for unplanned blood thinning than they are for fish oil.

Just ask your doctor + do some research and make your own INFORMED decision.

btk

[graciegirl]

We take fish oil every day. My wife is on warfarin and I am on plavix.
She gets her blood level checked every month....almost 20 years no problem.

Both of our cardiologists are well aware with no commentary.They are more concerned with one eating too many dark green veggies for unplanned blood thinning than they are for fish oil.

Just ask your doctor + do some research and make your own INFORMED decision.

btk

Right as usual. Our friend has been banned from broccoli for that very reason.

There is a lot of information we must wade through before we come to a conclusion, check the conclusion and come to a final conclusion...about ANYTHING.

Or we can take the advice of someone who we have chosen to guide our general health who has completed usually upwards of twelve years of education on the subject and has further gained knowledge by on hands care of patients over the years and has evaluated the tests and examinations and behavior exhibited by YOU.

MOST people are usually aware of the benefits of exercise, cutting back on fat and sweets, decreasing meat and increasing fruit and vegetables.

There is no shame in taking the medicines or helpful supplements that your doctor thinks will improve your health.
Some people think that all prescription medication is a huge scam. Actually many common prescribed medicines are making us healthier, increasing our years of life and improving the quality of life.

[senior citizen]

consider the benefits of fish oil — along with the toxins, side effects and sustainability issues.

http://www.mnn.com/sites/default/files/editorial/shutterstock_49423057.jpg

Toxins can be a problem
Although the good omega-3s reside in the fatty tissue of fish, that is also the very place where environmental contaminates bioaccumulate, which means that oil derived from these tissues may contain high concentrations of environmental contaminants.

Heavy metals such as arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury come to us by way of industry and are not easily broken down, and thus end up throughout the environment at low levels, especially in fish. And fish oil. Adverse effects from ingesting heavy metals can include cognitive impairments, nervous system dysfunction, blindness, lack of coordination, deafness, development of certain cancers, irreversible liver and kidney damage and death.

Along with heavy metals, there are also other toxic compounds that bioaccumulate in fish. Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) can lead to skin problems, muscle spasms, chronic bronchitis and nervous system disorders; and dioxins and furans have been linked to a number of adverse health effects including skin, liver and immune system problems, endocrine and reproductive disruptions and the development of certain cancers.

One of the trickiest parts about navigating which fish to eat, for many people, is figuring out which fish have the least amount of toxins versus which fish are sustainable. To help with similar issues when selecting fish oil, you can check with the International Fish Oil Standards Program (IFOS) which is a third party toxin testing and accreditation program for omega-3 fish oil products.

Fish oil is served with a side of side effects
We generally don’t consider the impact of side effects with our nutritional supplements, you know, the things we take to make us healthier. But fish oil offers side effects in spades. Here is a list from the Mayo Clinic. (Just for fun, read them in the hushed, calming tone of an actor listing prescription drug side effects on a television commercial.)

Fish oil supplements may cause nausea, diarrhea, loose stools, decreased appetite, constipation, vomiting and fat in the stool. Gastrointestinal side effects may be minimized if fish oils are taken with meals and if doses are started low and gradually increased.

There are rare reports of mania in patients with bipolar disorder or major depression. Restlessness and formication (the sensation of ants crawling on the skin) have also been reported.

Other potential side effects include loss of short-term memory, headache, hemolytic anemia, depression, somatic disorders, increased risk of colon cancer, nasopharyngitis, worsening of asthma symptoms, decreased physical activity, increased appetite, increased blood pressure and an uncomfortable feeling.

Omega-3 fatty acids may increase blood sugar levels. Caution is advised in patients with diabetes or hypoglycemia, and for those taking drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Blood glucose levels may need to be monitored by a qualified healthcare professional, including a pharmacist.

Omega-3 fatty acids may increase low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, may worsen symptoms for patients with ventricular tachycardia, may increase the risk of bleeding, and may decrease blood pressure.

Fish oil taken for many months may cause a deficiency of vitamin E and may increase the risk of vitamin A or D toxicity — so use large amounts cautiously.

Individuals at risk for hormone imbalance or those undergoing hormone replacement therapy should use cautiously, as decreased estrogen receptor production has been associated with fish oil supplementation.

Patients with asthma, inflammatory bowel disease, or liver disease, and patients at risk for colon cancer should use cautiously, based on potential adverse effects associated with fish oil use.

The moral of the story here: Check with your doctor before taking fish oil.

EXCELLENT POST. I've also done the research and you've hit the nail on the head. I would think most doctors are not as aware of the dangers as one might think.

My personal opinion is that people pop too many supplements, thinking they can eat poorly but make up for it with a little pill.

Even though our food supply is not totally natural anymore, supplements are even more worrisome........like derived from what original source? Manufactured in what type of facility? How pure? How clean?

[senior citizen]

We take fish oil every day. My wife is on warfarin and I am on plavix.
She gets her blood level checked every month....almost 20 years no problem.

Both of our cardiologists are well aware with no commentary. They are more concerned with one eating too many dark green veggies for unplanned blood thinning than they are for fish oil.

Just ask your doctor + do some research and make your own INFORMED decision.

btk

Interesting post. A cousin has her blood checked very often, as above......so "I hear you".........

She also is super conscious of not eating more than a smidgen of broccoli, dark green veggies, cranberry sauce, etc..........she is on coumadin after her mitral valve replacement surgery.

She's "religious" about what she cannot eat......and they are all healthy foods that she shuns.

I also know many other food stuffs that are blood thinners "naturally" such as ginger, etc., garlic, etc. and even some homeopathic teas.

My husband once got a super scary major nosebleed after consuming a little too much of a certain herbal tea..........with ginger in it....and other herbs.

However, wouldn't it be super easy to just eat the broccoli, etc. than to take a pharmaceutical? A doctor could lay out the proper amounts of the food.........and it would be less expensive than going to the pharmacy for all the various prescriptions.

Our pet peeve is to listen to the evening news commercials put out by the major pharmaceutical companies..........after seeing all the mobility challenged arthritics out there in the limelight swearing by a certain drug, come the LONG LIST of possible complications including lung cancer, blood cancer, you name it cancer.........when all the person had was a form of arthritis. Does anyone else "hear this"........????????

Ditto for the sleep aides.......and other drugs for fibromyalgia, you name it.........the "potential" side effects are worse than the original ailment.

Not to minimize the pain that folks with R.A., osteo arthritis and fibromyalgia feel.........almost everyone up here suffers from one of these.
But we all thank God that it is not cancer. Why take a drug that could compromise the immune system and lead to cancer?

Maybe the retired pharmacist might be able to answer this???? Thankyou.

[Golfingnut]

Eating food is harmful to your health. Every medication like cholesterol medication or high blood pressure meds is harmful to your health. Fish oil and every homeopathic method has side effects. But then, not eating is also harmful to your health. If you have 190 over 120 blood pressure, you may wish to decide to try BP Meds.

YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR NEED TO DECIDE IF THE BENEFITS OUTWEIGH THE SIDE EFFECT OR NEGATIVES ABOUT EVERYTHING. FOR SURE, DON'T MAKE A HEALTH DECISION BASED ON WHAT SOMEONE POSTS ON THE INTERNET.

:undecided:

[Cantwaittoarrive]

:coolsmiley: "Do not stop or increase dosage (fish oil) without consulting him or her (your doctor)". Good advise. The pro and con of taking fish oil reminds me of the bulls and bears of the stock market. You can find some really "bright" doctors on both sides----just as you can find really "bright" stock brokers on both sides of the "time to buy or time to sell" discussion. Bottom line---until I see more......I'm taking my fish oil everyday with the approval of my doctor.

I agree. Why would anyone stop taking, or change what they are doing based on a posting on the internet. Your Doctor knows you, they know your health history and medical conditions. Some stranger on the internet doesn't know anything about you. If you don't trust your Doctor, find one you do trust. But why oh why would anyone trust a posting on the internet??

[graciegirl]

Right as usual. Our friend has been banned from broccoli for that very reason.

There is a lot of information we must wade through before we come to a conclusion, check the conclusion and come to a final conclusion...about ANYTHING.

Or we can take the advice of someone who we have chosen to guide our general health who has completed usually upwards of twelve years of education on the subject and has further gained knowledge by on hands care of patients over the years and has evaluated the tests and examinations and behavior exhibited by YOU.

MOST people are usually aware of the benefits of exercise, cutting back on fat and sweets, decreasing meat and increasing fruit and vegetables.

There is no shame in taking the medicines or helpful supplements that your doctor thinks will improve your health.
Some people think that all prescription medication is a huge scam. Actually many common prescribed medicines are making us healthier, increasing our years of life and improving the quality of life.

bump

[jimbo2012]

Agree one shouldn't follow the Internet blindly, but it's articles like this that provoke asking the right questions of your health professional.

Including a nutritionist.

I stopped taking fish oil two years ago because we eliminated ALL oils in our diet...but that's another issue :shocked:

[Villages PL]

We take fish oil every day. My wife is on warfarin and I am on plavix.
She gets her blood level checked every month....almost 20 years no problem.

Both of our cardiologists are well aware with no commentary. They are more concerned with one eating too many dark green veggies for unplanned blood thinning than they are for fish oil.

Just ask your doctor + do some research and make your own INFORMED decision.

btk

If there's a test for blood being too thin, what's it called?

[skyc6]

If there's a test for blood being too thin, what's it called?

I would guess it is called Bleeding! When blood is too thin, bleeding can occur easily. I also agree that health professionals should collaborate with their patients regarding all health concerns, and I really don't think dispensing health suggestions for everyone is advisable, as well intentioned as one might be. If the wrong person takes this advise, it could have dangerous results.

[pooh]

Asprin doesn't really "thin" blood, it just slows down clotting time....it slows down the time it takes for blood platelets to form clots.

[pooh]

I would guess it is called Bleeding! When blood is too thin, bleeding can occur easily. I also agree that health professionals should collaborate with their patients regarding all health concerns, and I really don't think dispensing health suggestions for everyone is advisable, as well intentioned as one might be. If the wrong person takes this advise, it could have dangerous results.

:BigApplause:

[pooh]

If there's a test for blood being too thin, what's it called?

Some info here...

Prothrombin Time (PT) Blood Test for Clotting Time (http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/prothrombin-time)

http://surgery.about.com/od/beforesurgery/qt/PTPTTINRtests.htm

[billethkid]

The test for the "!thin/thick" of the blood is called INR.
People who are on blood thinners like Coumadin or warfarin must have this check done regularly
. My wife has hers done once per month. The most up to date methods take a blood sample and within minutes obtain the results. And at times dosages are adjusted based on the too thick or too thin results.

btk

[Villages PL]

We take fish oil every day. My wife is on warfarin and I am on plavix.
She gets her blood level checked every month....almost 20 years no problem.

Both of our cardiologists are well aware with no commentary. They are more concerned with one eating too many dark green veggies for unplanned blood thinning than they are for fish oil.

Just ask your doctor + do some research and make your own INFORMED decision.

btk

Okay, btk, I did my research and here's what I found. Your doctors couldn't be more wrong about dark green veggies being a risk for unplanned blood thinning. Dark green veggies may have some blood thinning quality but that effect would be balanced by vitamin K that most green vegetables contain. Vitamin K is important because it helps blood to clot in case of bleeding from whatever cause. You can't fool nature; nature provides balance!

However, once you have decided to "stray" from nature and get under the care of a doctor who precribes all kinds of meds, you had better follow his advice. For example, vitamin K can interfere with some anticoagulant drugs.

P.S. Thanks for the information about the INR blood test.

[graciegirl]

Okay, btk, I did my research and here's what I found. Your doctors couldn't be more wrong about dark green veggies being a risk for unplanned blood thinning. Dark green veggies may have some blood thinning quality but that effect would be balanced by vitamin K that most green vegetables contain. Vitamin K is important because it helps blood to clot in case of bleeding from whatever cause. You can't fool nature; nature provides balance!

However, once you have decided to "stray" from nature and get under the care of a doctor who precribes all kinds of meds, you had better follow his advice. For example, vitamin K can interfere with some anticoagulant drugs.

P.S. Thanks for the information about the INR blood test.


It isn't straying from nature to consult a doctor who prescribes all kinds of medicines. The right medicine can add many years and better quality to many lives.

Care should be taken with eating green leafy vegetables and eating the right amount if you are on Coumadin or other medicines taken to lower the risk of stroke.

Broccoli And Blood Clots | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/439828-broccoli-and-blood-clots/)

[billethkid]

Okay, btk, I did my research and here's what I found. Your doctors couldn't be more wrong about dark green veggies being a risk for unplanned blood thinning. Dark green veggies may have some blood thinning quality but that effect would be balanced by vitamin K that most green vegetables contain. Vitamin K is important because it helps blood to clot in case of bleeding from whatever cause. You can't fool nature; nature provides balance!

However, once you have decided to "stray" from nature and get under the care of a doctor who precribes all kinds of meds, you had better follow his advice. For example, vitamin K can interfere with some anticoagulant drugs.

P.S. Thanks for the information about the INR blood test.

Your assessment he could not be more wrong is totally incorrect!

We are not straying from nature...just doing the smart, prudent thing to remain alive.

When one has a condition that could be life threatening life blood clots forming for any number of conditions, then medication to prevent the clots from forming and threatening ones life is the correct/smart thing to do....natural or not.

btk

PS Everytime I read your not so oblique message about doing what is natural it starts to get me warmer each time.....If my wife or I would have relied on natures balance to save the day one or both of us would not be here today. Very inappropriate commentary!!!!!!

[Villages PL]

Your assessment he could not be more wrong is totally incorrect!

We are not straying from nature...just doing the smart, prudent thing to remain alive.

When one has a condition that could be life threatening life blood clots forming for any number of conditions, then medication to prevent the clots from forming and threatening ones life is the correct/smart thing to do....natural or not.


btk

Yes, we are in agreement. Once it has been established that you have developed heart disease, the smart thing to do is follow your doctor's advice.

However, if his statement about green vegetables was aimed at the average person, then he is just plain ignorant about green vegetables. If you say otherwise, show me the proof.

[Villages PL]

It isn't straying from nature to consult a doctor who prescribes all kinds of medicines. The right medicine can add many years and better quality to many lives.

Here's what I had in mind when I said what I said. The part about "straying from nature" pertains to everything that happens over a lifetime, i.e., continuous long-term lifestyle habits. However, once that lifestyle is firmly in place and heart disease has been established, what other choice is there but to be under the care of a heart doctor? Especially if there's no desire, intention or ability to change those lifestyle habits.

Care should be taken with eating green leafy vegetables and eating the right amount if you are on Coumadin or other medicines taken to lower the risk of stroke.

Yes, exactly, in my post I said, "....vitamin K can interfere with some anticoagulant drugs."

Broccoli And Blood Clots | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/439828-broccoli-and-blood-clots/)

Your link provided a lot of the same information that I found when I did my research. And it more or less proves the ignorance of any doctor who suggests that dark green vegetables are anything less than healthful for the average person.

[billethkid]

Yes, we are in agreement. Once it has been established that you have developed heart disease, the smart thing to do is follow your doctor's advice.

However, if his statement about green vegetables was aimed at the average person, then he is just plain ignorant about green vegetables. If you say otherwise, show me the proof.

You are once again wrong in your conclusion.
My first post was not an oration for the "average person" it was about my wife and I.

My second post clarified that very fact yet you continue to throw out words to generate heat like "ignorance" followed by "show me proof".
It is one thing to have a. Position and a belief or an opinion, it is quite another to create a challenge where none was needed in the first place.
Sorta like ready, fire aim approach.

Btk

[zonerboy]

It's called risk-benefit analysis. And it's not an easy task.
As a retired physician this is a very basic concept. Every pharmaceutical medication has definite risks (side effects, reactions, whatever you want to call them). Some of these are very serious, even life threatening. But they also have specific benefits, which are very real. So the problem is figuring out whether the benefits outweigh any potential risks. Do not try to do this yourself. Do not rely on the advice of friends or people who post on blogs (who like to pretend they know what they are talking about). Use a professional.
The same goes for vitamins and nutritional supplements (even dietary regimens). They have benefits, yes. But they are definitely not risk free. And always remember that what may be good for one person, is not necessarily good for all persons. Doctors may or may not be good nutritionists, and nutritionist may know very little about treating disease.
Be careful out there
Pax vobiscum.

[billethkid]

Thank you "doc".
btk

[senior citizen]

Understanding Coumadin (http://my.clevelandclinic.org/drugs/Coumadin/hic_Understanding_Coumadin.aspx)


The Cleveland Clinic is world renowned for their valve replacement surgery.


Please click on hyperlink above and keep scrolling down, as you read along.........to “DIET” .


This section answers the questions on green veggies. Our cousin religiously has her blood tested.


She stringently avoids overdoing the green veggies, and other foods on the list.........It’s an interesting read.


Hers was for her mitral valve. Originally, the surgeons were just going to “repair the heart strings”.


However, when her heart was stopped during surgery, something happened and the “strings” broke.


They then put in an artificial valve instead of a lamb/sheep valve. This artificial valve could lead to clotting and stroke.


Thus, the warfarin/coumadin.



p.s. Interesting that warfarin was discovered originally from a rodent poison, which one can read elsewhere.


It’s very important for the blood workups to be done regularly to make certain the blood is not “too thin”.


The even more interesting thing about the mitral valve replacement surgery is that she had been treated for over 30 years for anxiety.


Her symptoms were pressure in the heart area, palpitations, the feeling of an elephant sitting on her chest...........plus fibromyalgia symptoms.


It wasn’t until she went to a cardiologist that they discovered her mitral valve prolapse...........so even docs can make an occasional mistake.


Then, it was during the surgery to REPAIR THE HEART STRINGS to the leaflets???........that they broke the strings and had to put in the artificial valve.


Forever she will be on coumadin.........and strictly watching her green veggie intake........etc. Again, please click hyperlink above and scroll down.

[senior citizen]

.................

[senior citizen]

Although I included the hyperlink to the Cleveland Clinic in above post.........I've "isolated" this section on DIET for those interested in Vitamin K and fish oils, etc., etc.............but it is worthwhile to read the entire article as posted above. This info pertains to those patients taking daily coumadin/warfarin.

Diet : Be sure to talk with your doctor if you are planning any major diet changes, such as a weight-reducing diet, of if you plan to add any nutritional supplements.

Vitamin K is needed for normal blood clotting. When you are taking an oral anti-coagulant medication such as warfarin (Coumadin), high amounts of Vitamin K can work against the medication. The following guidelines will help control the amount of Vitamin K you are getting from the foods you eat. To help the medicine perform well, you should follow these guidelines:

Avoid grapefruit and cranberry products.
If you eat spinach, turnip greens, other leafy greens, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, parsley (except as a garnish or minor ingredient), natto (a Japanese dish), liver, or green tea, be sure to eat a consistent amount week to week.
Eat all other foods as you normally would.
Tell your doctor if you are thinking about changing your current eating habits. Tell your doctor if you are planning to:
Eat more or less vegetables.
Change to a vegetarian style of eating.
Follow a special meal plan to lose or gain weight.

Changing your eating habits may mean that you will be getting more or less Vitamin K in the foods you eat. If you change your eating habits, your doctor may want to check your blood more frequently to see how the Coumadin therapy is working.

Do not take any herbal supplements that may keep your blood from clotting. The following supplements should not be used when taking anticoagulant medications prior to surgery:
Garlic
Ginger
Gingko biloba
Ginseng
Feverfew
Fish oil
Turmeric
St. Johns Wort
Chondrotin sulfate

Also, tell your doctor if you are currently taking any herbal supplements.
Do not take any vitamin supplements that provide more than 100 percent of the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA). Tell your doctor if you are currently taking more than the RDA of any vitamins (especially vitamins A, C or E).
Avoid chronic, heavy drinking of beverages containing alcohol. (Heavy drinking is more than two ounces of liquor, 10 ounces of wine, or 24 ounces of beer per day.)

If you drink tea, black tea is recommended because it is not high in Vitamin K. An example of black tea is orange pekoe tea.
If you want more servings of vegetables in your daily meal plan, choose vegetables that are not high in Vitamin K, such as corn, squash, potatoes, onions, carrots, cucumbers, celery, peppers, pumpkin and tomatoes.

Daily activities
Be careful when using razors. We suggest an electric razor or hair-removing creams to minimize the chance of cuts.
Use a soft toothbrush. Brush and floss gently to prevent bleeding from the gums.

Illness and emergencies
Keep your doctor's phone number close by in the event of an emergency.
Call your doctor if you have any symptoms of illness, such as vomiting, diarrhea, infection or fever. Illness can change the way warfarin (Coumadin) works.
Always carry or wear identification that states you are taking warfarin (Coumadin). In an emergency, you may not be able to speak for yourself.
Avoid situations where you may get hurt at home or at work. Even minor injuries must be watched for bleeding because warfarin (Coumadin) affects clotting.
Falls that cause bruising (bleeding under the skin) and cuts from sharp objects are more serious when you are taking warfarin (Coumadin).
Call your doctor if you have any injuries that involve falls or blows to the body or head.

If you do cut yourself and the cut is small, apply constant pressure over the cut until the bleeding stops. This may take up to 20 minutes. If the bleeding doesn't stop, continue to apply pressure and go to the nearest emergency room. If the cut is large, apply constant pressure and get help immediately either by phone or by going to the nearest emergency room.

[graciegirl]

There are many heart difficulties that are congenital and not caused by diet or lifestyle.

Some of them are;

Supravalvar aortic stenosis
Tetrology of Fallot
Marfans Syndrome
Transposition of the great vessels
Williams Syndrome
Ventricular Septal Defect
Mitral Valve prolapse
Atrial Septal defect.
Pumonary hypertension

And upwards of thirty more. See below.

Types of CHD and their Descriptions <br> (http://www.congenitalheartdefects.com/typesofCHD.html)

[Uptown Girl]

It's called risk-benefit analysis. And it's not an easy task.
As a retired physician this is a very basic concept. Every pharmaceutical medication has definite risks (side effects, reactions, whatever you want to call them). Some of these are very serious, even life threatening. But they also have specific benefits, which are very real. So the problem is figuring out whether the benefits outweigh any potential risks. Do not try to do this yourself. Do not rely on the advice of friends or people who post on blogs (who like to pretend they know what they are talking about). Use a professional.
The same goes for vitamins and nutritional supplements (even dietary regimens). They have benefits, yes. But they are definitely not risk free. And always remember that what may be good for one person, is not necessarily good for all persons. Doctors may or may not be good nutritionists, and nutritionist may know very little about treating disease.
Be careful out there
Pax vobiscum.

Thank You :a040:

[Villages PL]

:coolsmiley: The pro and con of taking fish oil reminds me of the bulls and bears of the stock market. You can find some really "bright" doctors on both sides----just as you can find really "bright" stock brokers on both sides of the "time to buy or time to sell" discussion. Bottom line---until I see more......I'm taking my fish oil everyday with the approval of my doctor.

I can't go along with your analogy because it's way too pessimistic. Your statements seem designed to discourage people from trying to learn and think for themselves. Also, if there are really bright doctors on both sides, the fact that you have decided to follow your doctor's advice is little more than a 50/50 gamble.