When eating healthy becomes an unhealthy obsession.

[graciegirl]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

[ConeyIsBabe]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

"No thanks" on the ding-dong ~ but an informative article :spoken:

[graciegirl]

"No thanks" on the ding-dong ~ but an informative article :spoken:
You refer to the reference the author makes that one ding-dong isn't going to clog your arteries?

[Villages PL]

I have a question about the first sentence in the article: "There's a fine line between including foods deemed healthy in your diet and eating nothing but!"

The author admits that there's no such disorder as orthorexia and she can't describe what foods need to be eaten so as not to be orthorexic. Therefore, a parent of a teenager, for example, might just imagine that their child is being too fussy and call a dietition. This article is exactly what I would expect from a dietition: The idea is to find a brand new disorder and some day make it official so that there will be one more problem requiring their services. Ca-ching $$$$ :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Deb01]

I have this disease. Not fun, but I don't like much food anymore. My husband says that I only eat air. I only eat beans, rice, and raisin bran. Everything else makes me so sick when i eat it. Thanks Gracie for letting people know about this problem.

[justjim]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

Very interesting article thanks for posting it Gracie. This reinforces what I try to practice----"everything" in moderation.

[billethkid]

methinks it is an author looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

And of course what better way than to flirt with the main stream media to see if they will help senstionalize the subject.

This is like the one wher you can get cancer from grilled steaks.......if you eat 4000 pounds of it per day!!:laugh:

btk

[skyc6]

methinks it is an author looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

And of course what better way than to flirt with the main stream media to see if they will help senstionalize the subject.

This is like the one wher you can get cancer from grilled steaks.......if you eat 4000 pounds of it per day!!:laugh:

btk

I do find this an interesting topic. Google has many hits and articles about said subject, including MayoClinic.com which recognizes the symtoms as potentially falling into the mental health realm.
It bears reading and surely will continue to be a topic of study.:agree:

[ilovetv]

"What is so wrong with wanting to educate people on the benefits of 'good food' and the perils of 'bad' food anyway? The answer is in the latter. By eliminating entire groups of food and purporting their evil effects on everyone, even the casual orthorexic marks a dotted path to an elite, exclusive club. That dotted line emerges solid, bold and threatening on the other side of militant campaigns, member-only social networking sites, and exclusive gatherings.

The significance of sharing food slowly disappears from the militant, prostheletizing orthorexic's inventory of experiences. Time is spent alone campaigning, bulking up arguments that disparage meat, cheese, cooking food...not cooking food. These processes of slowly withdrawing from the full experience and commensality of sourcing, preparing, combining and sharing food threaten the orthorexic's continued participation in the seeking of pleasure in community.

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/orthorexia-wrong-way-eat-right

[senior citizen]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

Thanks for sharing. Believe it or not, we've seen that syndrome in action for many years now.........probably longer than a decade or so.

Eating sparingly from all the food groups with a heavy concentration on the fruits and vegetables is smart. NOT eating a lot of junk food is smart.

However, when adults cannot even attend a wedding celebration where the hosts have gone to great lengths to provide "stations" of every food imaginable (buffet style and served at the table) such as these "over the top" weddings nowadays..........and still we can hear someone chime in, "There's nothing here I can eat". Ditto for the rehearsal dinners for out of state guests the night before the wedding....given at great expense by the hosts.

I'm serious. We've heard that so often at various functions. It's either lactose intolerant, diverticulitis, vegetarian, heart healthy diet, etc.........many more.

As if eating free range organic roast chicken for one meal is going to kill someone.............when nearby is all the "field greens" one could want plus abundant fruit selections, rices, veggies, etc.

I "get" the staying away from the prime rib roasts and hams etc...but staying away from the manicotti because it has ricotta cheese in it? There were also oriental food selections which were predominately vegetarian but they were perceived to have MSG, etc. in their preparation.....so the "chef" was called in. These were big hotel affairs.
Beautifully presented delicious foods.

This isn't just the trend at weddings or big celebratory functions but also at home parties..........where in the not so recent past, a hostess went out of their way to put out a "good spread" and spent hours and hours preparing the food..........only to hear, "Oh, I can't eat anything here".

I also "get" that some take very seriously what their doctors advise after a cardiac "incident" and such..........but platters of fruit, crudites (raw veggies)....a no no? Well, they have diverticulitis. I understand that as well.

Everyone has something.

It's very very difficult to know what to prepare even when someone thinks of every possible dietary concern.

Who else has run into this problem in the past ten to twenty years?

Prior to that, people were thrilled to chow down on something they didn't get to enjoy on a regular basis.........if only for a few hours.

Dietary restrictions have taken all the joy out of cooking.
Luckily, we still know plenty of folks who are not fussy.

Anyone out there who eats what they please?

Oh, and the ones who do "beg off" with their empty plate......then proceed to pull out their little "baggies" with all the supplements (which replace the food nutrients of the food they couldn't eat). Do some research on all of these vitamins and mineral supplements and how they were sourced or outsourced.

Years and years ago, the immigrants only had "sweets" and such on the big holidays like Christmas, Easter, a wedding, etc..........granted, now there is TOO MUCH FOOD at our disposal..........however, being fussy to the point of "there's nothing here I can eat"......is taking it to the extreme.

GOOD ARTICLE.......even if I went off topic. Thankfully, my husband eats everything and enjoys it.

**I should add that some of the above mentioned folks are borderline or actual hypochondriacs as they practically have a doctor appointment lined up for every day of the week........or every other day, for some others.

Life is short. No doubt about it. But, we should enjoy the time we have and not obsess over food. At our age, we should all know what is healthy and what should be eaten in moderation.

[Uptown Girl]

I liked your input senior c, it was honest..... and I've been there!

I have had many an experience of having dinner guests who flip from one way of eating to another from visit to visit, so just when you think you have it down pat and can accommodate them amidst the rest of the guests, the food list (or the source of it and preparation requirements) that they will ingest has changed. Of course, they announce that when you are serving.
(and I was a vegetarian in the past, so I know how to make lots of this stuff and source it well!)
This speaks to Gracie's link: GREAT ARTICLE, GRACIE!!!!!

I now tell guests (at the time I extend the invite) what I will be serving, period.

If my menu is not to their tastes, I tell them it's totally acceptable for them to decline. Stop by afterward for coffee... (unless the coffee preparation has to be done while jumping through hoops)... or don't. It doesn't offend me.

[senior citizen]

I liked your input senior c, it was honest..... and I've been there!

I have had many an experience of having dinner guests who flip from one way of eating to another from visit to visit, so just when you think you have it down pat and can accommodate them amidst the rest of the guests, the food list (or the source of it and preparation requirements) that they will ingest has changed. Of course, they announce that when you are serving.
(and I was a vegetarian in the past, so I know how to make lots of this stuff and source it well!)
This speaks to Gracie's link: GREAT ARTICLE, GRACIE!!!!!

I now tell guests (at the time I extend the invite) what I will be serving, period.

If my menu is not to their tastes, I tell them it's totally acceptable for them to decline. Stop by afterward for coffee... (unless the coffee preparation has to be done while jumping through hoops)... or don't. It doesn't offend me.


Smart lady. Good thinking.

[Villages PL]

Thanks for sharing. Believe it or not, we've seen that syndrome in action for many years now.........probably longer than a decade or so.

Eating sparingly from all the food groups with a heavy concentration on the fruits and vegetables is smart. NOT eating a lot of junk food is smart.

However, when adults cannot even attend a wedding celebration where the hosts have gone to great lengths to provide "stations" of every food imaginable (buffet style and served at the table) such as these "over the top" weddings nowadays..........and still we can hear someone chime in, "There's nothing here I can eat". Ditto for the rehearsal dinners for out of state guests the night before the wedding....given at great expense by the hosts.

I'm serious. We've heard that so often at various functions. It's either lactose intolerant, diverticulitis, vegetarian, heart healthy diet, etc.........many more.

As if eating free range organic roast chicken for one meal is going to kill someone.............when nearby is all the "field greens" one could want plus abundant fruit selections, rices, veggies, etc.

I "get" the staying away from the prime rib roasts and hams etc...but staying away from the manicotti because it has ricotta cheese in it? There were also oriental food selections which were predominately vegetarian but they were perceived to have MSG, etc. in their preparation.....so the "chef" was called in. These were big hotel affairs.
Beautifully presented delicious foods.

This isn't just the trend at weddings or big celebratory functions but also at home parties..........where in the not so recent past, a hostess went out of their way to put out a "good spread" and spent hours and hours preparing the food..........only to hear, "Oh, I can't eat anything here".

I also "get" that some take very seriously what their doctors advise after a cardiac "incident" and such..........but platters of fruit, crudites (raw veggies)....a no no? Well, they have diverticulitis. I understand that as well.

Everyone has something.

It's very very difficult to know what to prepare even when someone thinks of every possible dietary concern.

Who else has run into this problem in the past ten to twenty years?

Prior to that, people were thrilled to chow down on something they didn't get to enjoy on a regular basis.........if only for a few hours.

Dietary restrictions have taken all the joy out of cooking.
Luckily, we still know plenty of folks who are not fussy.

Anyone out there who eats what they please?

Oh, and the ones who do "beg off" with their empty plate......then proceed to pull out their little "baggies" with all the supplements (which replace the food nutrients of the food they couldn't eat). Do some research on all of these vitamins and mineral supplements and how they were sourced or outsourced.

Years and years ago, the immigrants only had "sweets" and such on the big holidays like Christmas, Easter, a wedding, etc..........granted, now there is TOO MUCH FOOD at our disposal..........however, being fussy to the point of "there's nothing here I can eat"......is taking it to the extreme.

GOOD ARTICLE.......even if I went off topic. Thankfully, my husband eats everything and enjoys it.

**I should add that some of the above mentioned folks are borderline or actual hypochondriacs as they practically have a doctor appointment lined up for every day of the week........or every other day, for some others.

Life is short. No doubt about it. But, we should enjoy the time we have and not obsess over food. At our age, we should all know what is healthy and what should be eaten in moderation.

I didn't think I would ever say this but that was a good post. It held my interest and parts of it even made me laugh. You mentioned how people would say "there's nothing here I can eat" when actually there was plenty to choose from. Well, I think those people are being somewhat rude and thoughtless to the host who went to a lot of trouble. I haven't been to a wedding reception for several decades but if I did get invited I would not complain about the food. I can't see doing that. It's just plain rude.

I told how I went to the birthday party of a man who was 100 years old. It was free and open to the public. I ate chicken because it was at KFC. And, don't tell anyone, I even had a piece of birthday cake. Having a piece of birthday cake once every 10 years is what I call "moderation". :icon_wink:

[Villages PL]

I have this disease. Not fun, but I don't like much food anymore. My husband says that I only eat air. I only eat beans, rice, and raisin bran. Everything else makes me so sick when i eat it. Thanks Gracie for letting people know about this problem.

I'm sorry to hear about your problem but I'm also sorry to say that you don't fit into the category of being orthorexic. Furthermore, you described it as a disease when orthorexia is not even a bonified disorder.

[Villages PL]

Very interesting article thanks for posting it Gracie. This reinforces what I try to practice----"everything" in moderation.

"Moderation" is practically meaningless because it's totally subjective. I once knew an obese woman who claimed that she ate everything in moderation.

[senior citizen]

I didn't think I would ever say this but that was a good post. It held my interest and parts of it even made me laugh. You mentioned how people would say "there's nothing here I can eat" when actually there was plenty to choose from. Well, I think those people are being somewhat rude and thoughtless to the host who went to a lot of trouble. I haven't been to a wedding reception for several decades but if I did get invited I would not complain about the food. I can't see doing that. It's just plain rude.

I told how I went to the birthday party of a man who was 100 years old. It was free and open to the public. I ate chicken because it was at KFC. And, don't tell anyone, I even had a piece of birthday cake. Having a piece of birthday cake once every 10 years is what I call "moderation". :icon_wink:

Well, you are invited if and when I end up in TV and I assure you I can cook anything vegetarian and/or vegan.

KFC is tasty but has "Accent" in it.....monosodium glutamate.
If you take the skin off the chicken......you save that unhealthy part.

What I'd like to know is what you eat when you go to the GOLDEN CORRAL???? The salad bar? Make sure there are no sulfites on it.

Glad you had a chuckle.......I also have a sense of humor.....but somtimes you come across as a bit rigid.........if truth be told.

As far as the wedding receptions......I'd say that finally all of the neices, nephews, adult children, adult neighbors children, etc. are married.....

The next round of weddings will be the grandchildren........but not for awhile yet.

I also would host large holiday parties for our employees and neighbors, friends, etc. There was the bunch that would partake of everything and enjoy it .........and then there were the fussiest of the fussy.

You know, because I've told you, about the vegetarians and vegans who are (or were, as they are dead now) avid cyclists and sports enthusiasts, who were quite fussy also........regarding their food.........all stick thin.
Unfortunately, they all died of cancer. It's the truth. Not an anecdote as you like to call these remembrances. They ate so sparingly with no "fats" at all added to their food........even their salads were raw and unadulterated with salad dressing.......not even plain wine vinegar and olive oil. Plain eating.......and yet they are dead.

I'd say, indulge yourself occasionally and you will live a happier longer life.
I'm sure you are basically a healthy person by nature and will achieve your goal of a long life. More power to you.

[Villages PL]

I do find this an interesting topic. Google has many hits and articles about said subject, including MayoClinic.com which recognizes the symtoms as potentially falling into the mental health realm.
It bears reading and surely will continue to be a topic of study.:agree:

By any chance does the Mayo Clinic offer mental health counseling? Ca-ching! ($$$$) Industry, including healthcare, wants in on this lucrative venture.

Orthorexia is not even a disorder. It makes me think that this has all been dreamed up by the food industry. In case anyone hasn't noticed there's a food war going on between health advocates and the food industry.

It's already known that the food industry hires dietitions and nutritionists to plead their case that "there's no such thing as bad food". There's a doctor of nutrition in central Florida that speaks out over the airwaves to say exactly that. And, by the way, she forgets to tell people that she works for a major supermarket chain.

And I went to a lecture given by a dietition, back when I belonged to The Wellness Center. She worked for the same supermarket chain and she also said "there's no such thing as bad food".

So what is to stop the food industry from coming up with the idea of orthorexia and having someone like a dietition or nutritionist write about it and post it on the internet? The idea being that if anyone tries too hard to support good eating habits, that person can be called orthorexic.

[graciegirl]

...

[2BNTV]

My viewpoint is that we should all eat in moderation with moderation being defined as portion control and maintaining a healthy weight. Some people have medical considerations that require eating certain foods or some people like to eat healthy.

I agree that breaking down and eating some foods outside of what is considered healthy sd good for us psychologically. With that being said, an occasional treat is not the end of the world, as we know it.

The article says that some people will not go out to eat with friends and that's a little extreme for me.

Just sayin.........

[ilovetv]

If you'd ever lived with somebody who is addicted to their rituals of righteous grocery shopping, food storage, cooking, picky eating, and droning that implies everyone else is an ignorant slob who doesn't know how to eat, you would know that orthorexia is a real mental illness, regardless of whether it is classified in the DSM (Diagnosis & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) for getting bills paid by insurance or government.

Worse yet is living with, or seeing next door, parents who inflict this disordered thinking and jail-like lifestyle on their innocent little kids in their most formative years.

We actually had neighbors whose kids would roam the (upscale) neighborhood, looking for food from other moms who allowed their kids to eat normally (which means allowed them to have a snack when they got home from school instead of forcing "no snacking" on them).

In the DSM, the other main eating disorders described here encompass much of what orthorexic behavior is:

Eating Disorders | psychiatry.org (http://www.psychiatry.org/mental-health/key-topics/eating-disorders)

[senior citizen]

If you'd ever lived with somebody who is addicted to their rituals of righteous grocery shopping, food storage, cooking, picky eating, and droning that implies everyone else is an ignorant slob who doesn't know how to eat, you would know that orthorexia is a real mental illness, regardless of whether it is classified in the DSM (Diagnosis & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) for getting bills paid by insurance or government.

Worse yet is living with, or seeing next door, parents who inflict this disordered thinking and jail-like lifestyle on their innocent little kids in their most formative years.

We actually had neighbors whose kids would roam the (upscale) neighborhood, looking for food from other moms who allowed their kids to eat normally (which means allowed them to have a snack when they got home from school instead of forcing "no snacking" on them).

In the DSM, the other main eating disorders described here encompass much of what orthorexic behavior is:

Eating Disorders | psychiatry.org (http://www.psychiatry.org/mental-health/key-topics/eating-disorders)

That's a great post. Another aspect of carrying things too far with regard to perceived healthy eating.

We've known people who limit their kids to plain water rather than milk or juice. Chocolate milk is poison in their minds. One family belonged to a Chiropractor in town who just happened to buy a home next door to us. They had seven children who were severely limited in what they could eat. My daughter, 16, at the time....was an occasional babysitter.
The mom, college educated like the dad, would write a list of what she could and could not give the children.........only beverages to be had: water. No snacks at all. They were vegetarians and I believe adopted the B'hai faith........eventually moved to Uraguay? South America.

Whether or not cows milk is popular today or not, ours had milk, juices and an occasional chocolate milk. Lemonade in the summertime. Water was not the "in thing" then.

I never ever rationed food. We had ice cream in the freezer for them and their friends. Big bowls of fruit on the kitchen island....to take as they pleased. Never rationed a thing. Both were thin healthy kids, thin healthy teens and now thin healthy adults.

Whereas I had another neighbor who also rationed food and her kids are all seriously obese........as they felt deprived. Go figure.

We also served all different types of ethnic meals.

I even made Mushu Pork in the little pancakes after we enjoyed it in Washington, D.C. Always tried various cousines and both still enjoy exotic foods............where other kids we know grew up to be picky eaters.

It's when a BIG DEAL is made out of eating or not eating.
I think people should just eat when they are hungry.
They say 6 "small" meals a day is ideal to keep one's blood sugar up.
They are not saying to gorge six times a day......but a healthy snack here and there.

But, GREAT POST ABOVE..........it's probably easier to do the righteous grocery shopping if one is single, never married and never had children.
Then you can eat what you alone desire. But, when you have a family and the children bring home friends.......you want to have kid friendly snacks around. I was one of those cookie baking moms.....so when they came home from school, always with friends in tow........they had fresh cookies. It didn't kill them and I used oatmeal and raisins and nuts.
Plus chocolate chips. Ginger, etc. Molasses, etc. I had the luxury of being a stay at home mom...........and our house was always open to the friends...........they all turned out well, thankfully.

Rigidity in any form is not healthy.......especially as you say, for the person living with them or near them.

I may have been five years old but I still remember those years at my Italian grandmother's dining table......with many generations of inlaws and outlaws........never once heard anyone say "I can't eat that" or "I have this or that ailment"........they just were jolly and ate with gusto and all lived into their 90's. Anyone that remembers all the dishes and plates on top of plates plus all the "various courses" of an Italian family dinner, will know what I'm talking about.............the miracle in my mind is how they did it from those tiny kitchens??? Must have been that home made Italian vino.

[Villages PL]

My viewpoint is that we should all eat in moderation with moderation being defined as portion control and maintaining a healthy weight. Some people have medical considerations that require eating certain foods or some people like to eat healthy.

I think your definition is fine as far as it goes. I would just add this: For most people, especially the elderly, the foods to be eaten (in moderation) should be non-processed foods. That's because the older we get the harder it is to "cheat" and maintain a healthy weight. And the older we get the harder it is for our digestive system to absorb nutrients. So we need the maximum nutrients possible from healthy whole foods.

As most of us know, there's no shortage of overweight seniors (about 70%) and no shortage of seniors taking multiple medications (about 9 out of 10). And yet the average senior will claim to eat a balanced diet in moderation. So something doesn't add up. I think most people are addicted to processed foods and are in denial. After eating processed foods for several decades throughout their lives, it ends up looking normal. Therefore, careful eaters, to them, look abnormal (orthorexic).

[graciegirl]

Nancy Lamperti, 101-Year-Old Staten Island Woman, Reveals Her Secret To Long Life (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/nancy-lamperti-101-year-old-secrets-to-life-alcohol_n_3008820.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D293750)

[rubicon]

I can't catch orthoexia I grew up with an Italian mother:D

[graciegirl]

I can't catch orthoexia I grew up with an Italian mother:D

Since I have moved to the villages and have been exposed to REAL Italian cooking by REAL Italian cooks..THIS German descendant is feeling a little bit of ethnic origin envy. What yummy stuff Italians know how to fix!

Tonight we are having one Italian inspired side. Fresh spinach wilted in hot olive oil that has sauteed garlic in it. Yum.

[Villages PL]

That's a great post. Another aspect of carrying things too far with regard to perceived healthy eating.

We've known people who limit their kids to plain water rather than milk or juice. Chocolate milk is poison in their minds. One family belonged to a Chiropractor in town who just happened to buy a home next door to us. They had seven children who were severely limited in what they could eat. My daughter, 16, at the time....was an occasional babysitter.
The mom, college educated like the dad, would write a list of what she could and could not give the children.........only beverages to be had: water. No snacks at all. They were vegetarians and I believe adopted the B'hai faith........eventually moved to Uraguay? South America.

Whether or not cows milk is popular today or not, ours had milk, juices and an occasional chocolate milk. Lemonade in the summertime. Water was not the "in thing" then.

I never ever rationed food. We had ice cream in the freezer for them and their friends. Big bowls of fruit on the kitchen island....to take as they pleased. Never rationed a thing. Both were thin healthy kids, thin healthy teens and now thin healthy adults.

Whereas I had another neighbor who also rationed food and her kids are all seriously obese........as they felt deprived. Go figure.

We also served all different types of ethnic meals.

I even made Mushu Pork in the little pancakes after we enjoyed it in Washington, D.C. Always tried various cousines and both still enjoy exotic foods............where other kids we know grew up to be picky eaters.

It's when a BIG DEAL is made out of eating or not eating.
I think people should just eat when they are hungry.
They say 6 "small" meals a day is ideal to keep one's blood sugar up.
They are not saying to gorge six times a day......but a healthy snack here and there.

But, GREAT POST ABOVE..........it's probably easier to do the righteous grocery shopping if one is single, never married and never had children.
Then you can eat what you alone desire. But, when you have a family and the children bring home friends.......you want to have kid friendly snacks around. I was one of those cookie baking moms.....so when they came home from school, always with friends in tow........they had fresh cookies. It didn't kill them and I used oatmeal and raisins and nuts.
Plus chocolate chips. Ginger, etc. Molasses, etc. I had the luxury of being a stay at home mom...........and our house was always open to the friends...........they all turned out well, thankfully.

Rigidity in any form is not healthy.......especially as you say, for the person living with them or near them.

I may have been five years old but I still remember those years at my Italian grandmother's dining table......with many generations of inlaws and outlaws........never once heard anyone say "I can't eat that" or "I have this or that ailment"........they just were jolly and ate with gusto and all lived into their 90's. Anyone that remembers all the dishes and plates on top of plates plus all the "various courses" of an Italian family dinner, will know what I'm talking about.............the miracle in my mind is how they did it from those tiny kitchens??? Must have been that home made Italian vino.

The problem with anecdotes is: There are always plenty of anecdotes that can "prove" the exact opposite. Here's a real life example:

My aunt Lucy felt like she had been deprived of candy when she was a child, but she never became overweight as an adult. However, she made up her mind at an early age that she didn't want her children to grow up feeling deprived. So she made it a point to always keep a large bowl of candy in the kitchen and told her children that they could take as much as they wanted at any time of the day.

She had four boys and one, who was a controlled drinker, died at age 60 of liver cancer. The other three are drinkers as well and sport large waistlines. They grew up with poor eating habits because, without proper supervision, they often ate candy right before meals. She, for example, would make a salad and her boys would typically take only a tablespoon of salad with their meals. In addition to the one with liver cancer, another one had thyroid cancer and had his thyroid removed at sometime around his early 20s.

So, in that case, I don't see anything that was gained by being permissive. If anything, they were harmed by the fact that they didn't learn good eating habits as they were growing up.

[ilovetv]

........The other three are drinkers as well and sport large waistlines. They grew up with poor eating habits because, without proper supervision, they often ate candy right before meals. She, for example, would make a salad and her boys would typically take only a tablespoon of salad with their meals. In addition to the one with liver cancer, another one had thyroid cancer and had his thyroid removed at sometime around his early 20s.

So, in that case, I don't see anything that was gained by being permissive. If anything, they were harmed by the fact that they didn't learn good eating habits as they were growing up.

So then you'd have a scenario where--as it was with my neighbors who deprived their kids of everything they had a taste for--if the mom had kept candy hidden from plain sight or never bought any, the kids would get it from neighbors or buy it, and then hide it under their mattress.....where they could eat 3 lbs. of it in the dark before sleeping....and rot their teeth besides getting obese.

The lesson of "forbidden fruit" has many other lessons to be learned in it.

[Villages PL]

So then you'd have a scenario where--as it was with my neighbors who deprived their kids of everything they had a taste for--if the mom had kept candy hidden from plain sight or never bought any, the kids would get it from neighbors or buy it, and then hide it under their mattress.....where they could eat 3 lbs. of it in the dark before sleeping....and rot their teeth besides getting obese.

The lesson of "forbidden fruit" has many other lessons to be learned in it.

I like your active imagination where you see them getting candy from their neighbors. That's assuming that the neighbors are permissive and have loads of candy just waiting to be distributed, on a regular basis, to anyone who's going through withdrawl. It makes sugar look like a serious drug addiction.

The kid says to the neighbor: "Please, please, do you have any candy for me today? I can't stand being without it, I need it.." In that case, if the neighbor has a backbone, she would say, "NO, go home and eat your lunch."

As far as buying it: 1) I don't recall them having money at a young age and 2) there were no nearby stores.

What do they do today when a kid doesn't get any candy, or not enough candy? Do they report it to the state as child abuse? :1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

I like your active imagination where you see them getting candy from their neighbors. That's assuming that the neighbors are permissive and have loads of candy just waiting to be distributed, on a regular basis, to anyone who's going through withdrawl. It makes sugar look like a serious drug addiction.

The kid says to the neighbor: "Please, please, do you have any candy for me today? I can't stand being without it, I need it.." In that case, if the neighbor has a backbone, she would say, "NO, go home and eat your lunch."

As far as buying it: 1) I don't recall them having money at a young age and 2) there were no nearby stores.

What do they do today when a kid doesn't get any candy, or not enough candy? Do they report it to the state as child abuse? :1rotfl:

I often wonder if you have children.

When I taught we would have what I called "food moms" who would not allow their child to have sweets when they were sent in for holiday parties. or requested...STRONGLY that holiday parties have snacks like carrots or fruit.

I always knew the food moms loved their children deeply but I always thought that if they allowed a child an occasional sugar treat it would not kill them. Obviously for children with juvenile diabetes, it was a much easier plan. We just didn't have sugary treats EVER...and the same for peanut allergies.

I was faced with deciding if we should not have any food treats at parties, or have only healthy ones which aren't all that ....um...festive.

When I had a food mom which was not every year....I would just say no treats. It was too hard to watch the child who couldn't have the iced pumpkin cookie eat his packet of raisins. Remember, I taught five and six year olds.

We all survived. I wonder what happened to the little ones whose moms were so strict about food?

Were you young enough to be in my class Villages Pl?

[senior citizen]

Since I have moved to the villages and have been exposed to REAL Italian cooking by REAL Italian cooks..THIS German descendant is feeling a little bit of ethnic origin envy. What yummy stuff Italians know how to fix!

Tonight we are having one Italian inspired side. Fresh spinach wilted in hot olive oil that has sauteed garlic in it. Yum.

Love it. Gracie, I grew up on that and I always ate my spinach....whereas in public school cafeteria, kids would turn up their noses at the spinach on the lunch trays.

Try the garlic sauteed in olive oil over steamed broccoli.
Another great way to enjoy your vegetables.

Garlic is a natural antibiotic.......plus, garlic keeps the vampires away.

[jimbo2012]

I think depending on your eating habits they may not be an obsession rather a 'way of life'

I laugh when friends say oh you two can't eat this or that,
(being vegans) of course we can, we chose not to. :shrug:

[senior citizen]

The problem with anecdotes is: There are always plenty of anecdotes that can "prove" the exact opposite. Here's a real life example:

My aunt Lucy felt like she had been deprived of candy when she was a child, but she never became overweight as an adult. However, she made up her mind at an early age that she didn't want her children to grow up feeling deprived. So she made it a point to always keep a large bowl of candy in the kitchen and told her children that they could take as much as they wanted at any time of the day.

She had four boys and one, who was a controlled drinker, died at age 60 of liver cancer. The other three are drinkers as well and sport large waistlines. They grew up with poor eating habits because, without proper supervision, they often ate candy right before meals. She, for example, would make a salad and her boys would typically take only a tablespoon of salad with their meals. In addition to the one with liver cancer, another one had thyroid cancer and had his thyroid removed at sometime around his early 20s.

So, in that case, I don't see anything that was gained by being permissive. If anything, they were harmed by the fact that they didn't learn good eating habits as they were growing up.

From other things you've posted, cancer does seem to run in your family, so perhaps their bad luck was due to their genetics? Or environmental reasons if they were raised in what is frequently called a "smokestack environment". I've never heard of sugar causing cancer. Now, perhaps aspertame or other sugar substitutes might be a culprit.....and of course, today's food is loaded with high fructose corn syrup. Everything corn.
Too much corn is not good for one's health in general.

I understand the need to restrict sugary snacks in those with childhood diabetes , however, when our two children were in elementary school there was only one little girl who suffered from that malady. Everyone knew not to give her a candy bar or cookie.

What would Halloween be for children of all ages without their treats????

As Gracie asked, have you ever had children?????

I still remember bringing in huge trays of home made sugar cookies for whatever season it was.....to my kids' classroom...decorated with food colored frosting and cookies shaped to represent either Christmas, Halloween, you name it. They were a huge success. No one gorged on cookies. It was a special treat.

Ditto for their birthday cakes and such........

Any mom or dad who has had children........know that a carrot stick or celery stick or box of raisins, although a healthy snack otherwise, does not spell "celebration".

Ditto, I never restricted juice or milk..........water was not the beverage of choice back in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's when we had children at home.
Now, we all drink water.......constantly. I also fed all of my kids' friends who were always welcomed in our home..........plus the neighborhood kids. They are all still alive and well with families of their own.

We also did not drive through the fast food drive up window every morning for breakfast, lunch and dinner..........I cooked three meals at home.

Except on school days when they ate the cafeteria food. But they went off with a good breakfast and came home to COOKIES AND MILK.....then a nourishing supper............and maybe cookies and milk again before bed.

I always had a HUGE seasonal fruit bowl on my kitchen island........that they could take from, as they pleased. They still are big fruit eaters......and big salad eaters.
Not to mention big veggie eaters. I deprived them of no foods at all. They learned to make wise choices.

Heavens to Betsy......home baked chocolate chip cookies and milk.
Vermont is the dairy state after all and it's been said we have more cows than people........so more power to the cows.

My two are middle aged adults now with families of their own. They are tall, THIN, and healthy.....and highly intelligent. Never have had cancer or any other serious disease, Thank God. They both have high I.Q.'s.

Their Halloween candy and cookies and milk did not do any harm.
They eat a healthy diet now that goes with "TODAY'S" nutritional standards..........but still give their kids an occasional treat.

It's when one BANS a food substance that it becomes an obsessive thought.

Giving a kid a cookie or candy bar on Halloween is NOT being permissive.
Baking them cupcakes for school birthday parties is NOT being permissive.

Do you know any little children personally?????

Someday, when you are in the mood, I'd be happy to see a list of what you consume for breakfast, lunch and dinner.......plus any healthy snacks throughout the day? When one sets themselves up as a role model, it would be helpful to see the exact menu of choice.

The ones I've known who were so rigid in their eating habits were not necessarily healthy and they are all dead now. One of our favorite beverages is a nice big glass of Sunsweet prune juice with the pulp.
Can't recommend it enough. Regular prunes are good, as well. Raisins too, of course.

I've tried putting my hubby on a "sugar free", "dessert free" regime....by not bringing it into the home (except on special occasions such as celebratory holidays)......well, guess what? He can drive himself to the supermarket and stock up on his favorite ice creams, doughnuts, etc.

He will eat the fruit and yoghurt I put in front of him..........but wouldn't choose that in place of a doughnut. But, I do sneak in all the healthful snacks I can.

But vive le difference. Everyone's viewpoint is valuable. The most boring thing would be for all of us to be clones of each other.

[senior citizen]

I didn't think I would ever say this but that was a good post. It held my interest and parts of it even made me laugh. You mentioned how people would say "there's nothing here I can eat" when actually there was plenty to choose from. Well, I think those people are being somewhat rude and thoughtless to the host who went to a lot of trouble. I haven't been to a wedding reception for several decades but if I did get invited I would not complain about the food. I can't see doing that. It's just plain rude.

I told how I went to the birthday party of a man who was 100 years old. It was free and open to the public. I ate chicken because it was at KFC. And, don't tell anyone, I even had a piece of birthday cake. Having a piece of birthday cake once every 10 years is what I call "moderation". :icon_wink:

O.K.....so you do have some redeeming qualities with regard to food consumption.....(said with a smile). Ditto for the birthday cake. I'm happy to hear that....and glad I went back to read some old posts.

Was the KFC good? We are having that for lunch today (huge bucket of the crispy version) with the sides of cole slaw, etc., etc., etc...........just don't feel like cooking as we are beginning some spring chores. Only bad thing about the KFC is it contains ACCENT , another term for MSG. Monosodium Glutamate....a flavor enhanser.

Also, you've mentioned in the past that you've eaten at the Golden Corral.
Isn't that a steak restaurant?????? Or, what exactly is on their menu?

Enjoy your posts, rigid as they might be.....with regard to food or lack thereof. Hard to believe you are of Italian descent. I'll bet the new pope would eat my cooking..........and he is frugal and prefers a simple existence.......I'm going to send him some of my leftover baked ziti....came out very creamy with the excellent ricotta cheese. Vegans do not eat ricotta, correct? Or mozarella?

[jimbo2012]

Vegans do not eat ricotta, correct? Or mozarella?

I know U know the answer to that, it has a 'mother'

[senior citizen]

I know U know the answer to that, it has a 'mother'

Meaning if it has a "face" don't eat it? Like a Vermont cow?
Just teasing.

Our niece shuns all meat and dairy (the dairy because she is lactose intolerant, but also the meat as a slight boycott of her dad's meat business).

Another niece eats dairy in the form of cheese and such, but absolutely no "flesh"....no matter what the animal is.

Both girls chose this way of eating in high school.

So, ricotta cheese has a mother? What about a father?

[senior citizen]

Would you guys eat stuffed zucchini (stuffed with veggies, bread crumbs, etc. no meat) but if it was "held together" with a bit of mozarella before putting into the zucchini "boats".........very yummy, with very little non fat mozarella cheese. Par boil shells, concoct filling, refill boats and then bake in oven. I do the same with eggplant.....but I do add ground sausage meat to that.........eggplant halves; baked.

[jimbo2012]

What do U think?

[graciegirl]

I know U know the answer to that, it has a 'mother'

Yep. But no one killed it's mom to get the milk..

I am going to look at my canine teeth in the mirror. I have a terrible feeling they are growing.

[jimbo2012]

Gracie, we could get into the teeth not being designed to eat meat, but that would take us into a totally different direction.

[Villages PL]

Since I have moved to the villages and have been exposed to REAL Italian cooking by REAL Italian cooks..THIS German descendant is feeling a little bit of ethnic origin envy. What yummy stuff Italians know how to fix!

Tonight we are having one Italian inspired side. Fresh spinach wilted in hot olive oil that has sauteed garlic in it. Yum.

I have nothing against Italians, after all, I am Italian. But I don't eat any of the standard Italian dishes that you might consider "yummy". I've been living in the villages for almost 14 years and I think I went to an Italian restaurant only twice, and both times I was disappointed.

What does Italian food mostly consist of? It's mostly high in starch, fatty/salty cheeses and fatty/salty meats. How about a big dish of spaghetti with fatty/salty grated cheese and fatty/salty meatballs? That's typical and many other dishes are variations of that. The vegetables are skimpy and merely an after thought.

[Villages PL]

I often wonder if you have children.

When I taught we would have what I called "food moms" who would not allow their child to have sweets when they were sent in for holiday parties. or requested...STRONGLY that holiday parties have snacks like carrots or fruit.

I always knew the food moms loved their children deeply but I always thought that if they allowed a child an occasional sugar treat it would not kill them. Obviously for children with juvenile diabetes, it was a much easier plan. We just didn't have sugary treats EVER...and the same for peanut allergies.

I was faced with deciding if we should not have any food treats at parties, or have only healthy ones which aren't all that ....um...festive.

When I had a food mom which was not every year....I would just say no treats. It was too hard to watch the child who couldn't have the iced pumpkin cookie eat his packet of raisins. Remember, I taught five and six year olds.

We all survived. I wonder what happened to the little ones whose moms were so strict about food?

Were you young enough to be in my class Villages Pl?


When I was growing up, my mom was not one of those strict moms that you described above. I won't bore you with all the details but believe me, I ate my share of processed desserts, which I now will call "garbage".

Basically, I guess you could say that, as a kid, I ate the Standard American Diet (SAD). It included everything that you and others on this board would happily call "moderation". Thankfully, I survived it because I was young.

But she did draw a line when it came to stocking the refrigerator. I, as a young lad, was not in charge of stocking the refrigerator. And now, when I think back to those days, I'm glad that she was an adult with a backbone to set down some common sense rules.

Now, though I'm young at heart, I'm getting older and older and it's a whole new ball game. Whatever life is left for me, I value and want to make the most of it. And the so called "golden years" won't come from eating junk. A poor diet will only serve to hasten or bring on the degenerative diseases of aging.

Remember, it's all about risk. You can say that you and your uncle eat lots of junk and are still healthy. But disease has a way of showing up when you don't expect it, and then it's a surprise, at least it is to most people.

Hope I didn't bore anyone!

[graciegirl]

When I was growing up, my mom was not one of those strict moms that you described above. I won't bore you with all the details but believe me, I ate my share of processed desserts, which I now will call "garbage".

Basically, I guess you could say that, as a kid, I ate the Standard American Diet (SAD). It included everything that you and others on this board would happily call "moderation". Thankfully, I survived it because I was young.

But she did draw a line when it came to stocking the refrigerator. I, as a young lad, was not in charge of stocking the refrigerator. And now, when I think back to those days, I'm glad that she was an adult with a backbone to set down some common sense rules.

Now, though I'm young at heart, I'm getting older and older and it's a whole new ball game. Whatever life is left for me, I value and want to make the most of it. And the so called "golden years" won't come from eating junk. A poor diet will only serve to hasten or bring on the degenerative diseases of aging.

Remember, it's all about risk. You can say that you and your uncle eat lots of junk and are still healthy. But disease has a way of showing up when you don't expect it, and then it's a surprise, at least it is to most people.

Hope I didn't bore anyone!

When I picture you. I picture you short and very thin.

[senior citizen]

I have nothing against Italians, after all, I am Italian. But I don't eat any of the standard Italian dishes that you might consider "yummy". I've been living in the villages for almost 14 years and I think I went to an Italian restaurant only twice, and both times I was disappointed.

What does Italian food mostly consist of? It's mostly high in starch, fatty/salty cheeses and fatty/salty meats. How about a big dish of spaghetti with fatty/salty grated cheese and fatty/salty meatballs? That's typical and many other dishes are variations of that. The vegetables are skimpy and merely an after thought.

The Italian diet of olden days , when my grandmother and aunts cooked it, as well as my dad, was very HEAVY on the vegetables. They ate meat sparingly. The cheese was their source of dairy. I recall fondly all of the wonderful "vegetarian soups" and they didn't even know they were eating a vegetarian lifestyle for the most part..........bean soups, lentil soups, vegetable soups.......simple green salads every day........eggplant, zucchini, you name it............plus they grew their own tomatoes and green peppers..........ate FRUIT for dessert "except on holidays".........ate NO BUTTER on their wonderful Italian bread. I don't recall anyone in my dad's family being obese. They were all THIN.

My dad ate walnuts, chestnuts, pears, cantalupe, oranges for DESSERT.

Everything was prepared from scratch in those days. NO PROCESSED FOODS.

Also, they made their own wine..........so no sulfites were added.
Fruit of the vine is supposedly good for your arteries and such......

Sure, if you are going to "choose" anchovies, pepperoni, salami, etc. rather than the daily preparation of home made bean and lentil soups, then you would get the salt..........but those were used for flavorings more than "snacks".

All ethnic groups had a type of preserved summer sausage or salty meat which they "put up" against hard times or winter approaching.........using meat scraps or what have you.

P.S. I totally forgot to mention all the "greens" I grew up on.......such as ESCAROLE, SPINACH, BROCCOLI, GREEN BEANS, romaine lettuce, chicory in soups, parsley, etc...........probably more than I can think of so early in the a.m. Plus lots of veggies like zucchini, tomatoes, green and red peppers, carrots in everything.....eggplant but no corn. I don't ever remember eating corn at my grandmothers............although the polenta was made of cornmeal.

Below link is just for "fun" ..........the huge roast beef does NOT belong with the Italian veggies. Use right downward arrow on screen to keep scrolling down...........
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=italian+green+vegetables&qpvt=italian+green+vegetables&FORM=IGRE
In a nutshell, they did eat a lot of vegetables...........so perhaps they were ahead of their times and “knew” what was healthy.
They also ate a lot of seafood, as I recall.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cda/recipe_print/0,1946,FOOD_9936_25691_RECIPE-PRINT-FULL-PAGE-FORMATTER,00.html
Here is a modern version of the old “Escarole and Bean Soup” I grew up on. Very few kids would eat this today........
Back “in the day” they didn’t use Progresso canned cannelini beans..........but used dried beans they soaked overnight. This is a shortcut recipe.
Lentil soup is also yummy with spinach or other greens in it.............it’s easy to make with the dried lentils...........again, we grew up with lentil soup.

The Italian kids in high school , who didn't do the cafeteria meals.......would come in with huge eggplant parmesan sandwiches made by their moms for the working brothers and dads to take to work.
No fast food in those days.........or else, peppers and egg sandwiches........potatoes and egg sandwiches, or tuna salad (NO MAYO) Italian style which is with red wine vinegar, diced onions, garlic, etc.....
Everything had lots of garlic in it............which is good for you.

The Asian culture also knew the value of garlic and other herbs as medicinals........as did the Italians..........so I'd say these cultures were ahead of their times.......ahead of the pharmaceutical companies.

[Villages PL]

When I picture you. I picture you short and very thin.

Well, I'm lean and muscular but I don't consider myself to be short. I'm about average height. My parents were taller than their parents and I grew taller than my parents. Those of you who are not tall, be thankful because tall people on average live shorer lives.

When people came here from Europe (or wherever) they grew taller and taller because they ate more and more animal protein. Being tall is good if you work for a large corporation because you'll be more likely to get promotions over those who are shorter. Not to mention the fact that women like tall men. But that's where the advantage ends. The odds are against tall people living to advanced old age. And this may be part of the reason why women usually outlive men. Women on average are shorter than men.

:)

[ilovetv]

I like your active imagination where you see them getting candy from their neighbors. That's assuming that the neighbors are permissive and have loads of candy just waiting to be distributed, on a regular basis, to anyone who's going through withdrawl. It makes sugar look like a serious drug addiction.

The kid says to the neighbor: "Please, please, do you have any candy for me today? I can't stand being without it, I need it.." In that case, if the neighbor has a backbone, she would say, "NO, go home and eat your lunch."

As far as buying it: 1) I don't recall them having money at a young age and 2) there were no nearby stores.

What do they do today when a kid doesn't get any candy, or not enough candy? Do they report it to the state as child abuse? :1rotfl:

Sorry. It's not my imagination. Grade school and middle school kids in the neighborhood would walk to the gas stations, Walgreens, and fast food places and buy junk food, pop and candy. The kids held in Food Jail at home (prohibited from having a snack of any kind after school...were forced to wait till 6pm full meal) would get it from the neighbor kids and buy it with their own money, and if they were at a neighbor's house it didn't take a "permissive" mom to give them a treat if their own kids were having one.

[graciegirl]

Well, I'm thin but I don't consider myself to be short. I'm about average height. My parents were taller than their parents and I grew taller than my parents. Those of you who are not tall, be thankful because tall people on average live shorer lives.

When people came here from Europe (or wherever) they grew taller and taller because they ate more and more animal protein. Being tall is good if you work for a large corporation because you'll be more likely to get promotions over those who are shorter. Not to mention the fact that women like tall men. But that's where the advantage ends. The odds are against tall people living to advanced old age. And this may be part of the reason why women usually outlive men. Women on average are shorter than men.

:)

hmmmm

[senior citizen]

When I was growing up, my mom was not one of those strict moms that you described above. I won't bore you with all the details but believe me, I ate my share of processed desserts, which I now will call "garbage".

Basically, I guess you could say that, as a kid, I ate the Standard American Diet (SAD). It included everything that you and others on this board would happily call "moderation". Thankfully, I survived it because I was young.

But she did draw a line when it came to stocking the refrigerator. I, as a young lad, was not in charge of stocking the refrigerator. And now, when I think back to those days, I'm glad that she was an adult with a backbone to set down some common sense rules.

Now, though I'm young at heart, I'm getting older and older and it's a whole new ball game. Whatever life is left for me, I value and want to make the most of it. And the so called "golden years" won't come from eating junk. A poor diet will only serve to hasten or bring on the degenerative diseases of aging.

Remember, it's all about risk. You can say that you and your uncle eat lots of junk and are still healthy. But disease has a way of showing up when you don't expect it, and then it's a surprise, at least it is to most people.

Hope I didn't bore anyone!

You would be interested in Dr. Michael Mosley's PBS documentary.

We watched it early this morning while having our coffee....
(normally we watch our recording of the Amazing Race, but it wasn't on last evening).......

PBS documentary was about fasting........quite interesting study. He tested fasting on himself with life changing results. His next segment will be on exercise...........this is all in relationship to aging. His own aging.

One of the contributors to the show explained how very very short people (in Ecuador I believe) never get cancer or other life threatening ills that befall modern society. They are extremely short.

You never answered my query as to whether you are male or female.
Now I see you are a lad. Or, were a lad as a youth.

http://www.wtvp.org/headlines/13.03.28.michael_mosley.asp

http://www.pbs.org/program/michael-mosley/

[Villages PL]

You would be interested in Dr. Michael Mosley's PBS documentary.

We watched it early this morning while having our coffee....
(normally we watch our recording of the Amazing Race, but it wasn't on last evening).......

PBS documentary was about fasting........quite interesting study. He tested fasting on himself with life changing results. His next segment will be on exercise...........this is all in relationship to aging. His own aging.

One of the contributors to the show explained how very very short people (in Ecuador I believe) never get cancer or other life threatening ills that befall modern society. They are extremely short.

You never answered my query as to whether you are male or female.
Now I see you are a lad. Or, were a lad as a youth.

WTVP - Headlines - Health-Focused Science Series with Dr. Michael Mosley on WTVP (http://www.wtvp.org/headlines/13.03.28.michael_mosley.asp)

Michael Mosley | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/program/michael-mosley/)

I read part of your first link and fasting is not an option for me because I'm already at my lowest ideal weight. If I fast, I will become underweight.

I like the Mosley idea of self experimentation though. I just did it. My last blood test indicated a slow thyroid (TSH 8.88 hypothyroidism). I got busy, bought a book, and did lots of research on the subject. Then I decided to make about 4 changes in my diet. This was after my doctor said that diet had nothing to do with it. Some of the changes are complicated to explain so I won't go into the reasoning for the changes. 1) I lowered my B12 supplement 2) I started using some iodized salt 3) I started using less beans 4) I stopped eating raw cauliflower and broccoli (I cook them now.) And there were a few other minor changes.

When I went back to get retested, my results came back perfect.

It's possible that the first test was a lab error but I kind of doubt it. That's the problem with testing. You don't get unlimited tries at it. To be scientific, I would have needed to get retested with no changes in my diet. Then if the result was the same, I could have set about making the changes. Anyway, I'm satisfied that the changes were good and will continue them.

I believe lots of conditions can be changed for the better if people would just put in the effort.

[ConeyIsBabe]

Interesting thread ! I guess I am a little obsessed with eating healthy but am unable to increase my weight of 115# by doing so. Lactose intolerant and gluten intolerant restricts my diet and my obsession with avoiding processed food is another hindrance. :mmmm:

I tried to maintain an anti-inflammatory diet but now have a shoulder inflammation/impingement !! So I'm not so confident anymore about what's healthy or not. :cryin2:

[jimbo2012]

I believe lots of conditions can be changed for the better if people would just put in the effort.

That's the problem, the Dr's tells the patient, oh yea you show XYZ on your tests, take this drug that will fix it.

So we became a pill popping society in a way. The hell with the drug side effects.

High cholesterol, sugar, blood pressure no problem take these 99 drugs and keep the same lifestyle you like........until U wind up in ER or looking at the wrong side of the grass.

Not saying there no place for drugs, but a diet & exercise program can beat so many things, to say nothing about the number of folks here carrying an extra 50lbs +++++ DIET can go long way I'm not saying just vegan there other choices (not as good) but will help.

:mmmm:

[senior citizen]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

I just re read your above post as I honestly know people who fit this profile, Gracie. This was a good find on your part. We knew a brilliant young woman who attended an engineering university but who though stick thin would ask the waitress for just a "cup of hot water" when we'd take her out for dinner.......the waitress would ask, "You want a teabag with that hot water, right?" and she would respond, "No, too many calories". "Just hot water will be fine". She ate very little but when she did it was raw whole vegetables for the most part. No meat, no dairy.
She was skeletal. Her older sister only ate "rice cakes"...which are dry.

See below for more.......

Orthorexia ? A Little Known Eating Disorder - Facts on Eating-disorder.com (http://www.eating-disorder.com/Eating-Treatment/Eating-Disorders/orthorexia.htm)

Weighing The Facts: Orthorexia: Fixation On Righteous Eating (http://weighingthefacts.blogspot.com/2008/04/orthorexia-fixation-on-righteous-eating.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa

http://www.orthorexia.info/index.html (http://www.orthorexia.info/index.html)

[kittygilchrist]

Some people seem to feel most comfortable rejecting almost everything and some of us want too much of everything. We're a funny bunch, no?

[Villages PL]

I often wonder if you have children.

When I taught we would have what I called "food moms" who would not allow their child to have sweets when they were sent in for holiday parties. or requested...STRONGLY that holiday parties have snacks like carrots or fruit.

I always knew the food moms loved their children deeply but I always thought that if they allowed a child an occasional sugar treat it would not kill them. Obviously for children with juvenile diabetes, it was a much easier plan. We just didn't have sugary treats EVER...and the same for peanut allergies.

I was faced with deciding if we should not have any food treats at parties, or have only healthy ones which aren't all that ....um...festive.

When I had a food mom which was not every year....I would just say no treats. It was too hard to watch the child who couldn't have the iced pumpkin cookie eat his packet of raisins. Remember, I taught five and six year olds.

We all survived. I wonder what happened to the little ones whose moms were so strict about food?

Were you young enough to be in my class Villages Pl?

As long as we are all telling our favorite stories, I just thought of a good one. This was when I was in fourth grade. My mother always made me the best sandwiches, as far as I was concerned. (Back then, in 1950, it seems that most sandwiches were made with white bread because no one knew any better.) She would make extra food for dinner and use the excess for lunches. For example, if we had meatloaf for dinner, we would have meatloaf sandwiches for lunch the next day. Chicken for dinner would yield chicken sandwiches for lunch the next day. And my sandwiches alway contained lettuce and tomatoe slices. I was very happy with it.

There was a kid who sat in front of me in class who always got the same thing every day. It was peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And he kept begging me to trade with him. But, somehow, I knew better. I didn't think jelly was a good lunch. So I said no. When I told my mother, she said I did the right thing by not trading with him. She thought the same as I did that jelly should not be part of a good lunch. She always included a piece of fresh fruit in my lunch rather than cookies, like some of the others had. But did I feel deprived? No! I liked my lunch just the way it was. And I think it was because she took the time to explain the value of a healthy lunch. (At any rate, it was considered healthy at that time, by 1950 standards.)

[Villages PL]

Search: How many people affected from anorexia nervosa in the U.S.?

Answer: It is estimated that 0.6 % of adults will suffer from anorexia in their lifetime.

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Search: Percentage of Overweight, Obese Americans Swells

Answer: 63.1% of Americans are overweight or obese.

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Question: Of the two problems above, which is the bigger problem that we need to focus on?

P.S. I couldn't find any statistics on orthorexia. However, if it does exist, it may actually be the same as anorexia. In that case, it's nothing new.

[ilovetv]

Search: How many people affected from anorexia nervosa in the U.S.?
Answer: It is estimated that 0.6 % of adults will suffer from anorexia in their lifetime.
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Search: Percentage of Overweight, Obese Americans Swells

Answer: 63.1% of Americans are overweight or obese.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question: Of the two problems above, which is the bigger problem that we need to focus on?
P.S. I couldn't find any statistics on orthorexia. However, if it does exist, it may actually be the same as anorexia. In that case, it's nothing new.

First things first: (short-term and long-term disease need focus)

"Anorexia is the most lethal psychiatric disorder, carrying a sixfold increased risk of death -- four times the death risk from major depression.

The odds are even worse for people first diagnosed with anorexia in their 20s. They have 18 times the death risk of healthy people their age, according to an analysis of the medical literature by Jon Arcelus, MD, PhD, of the University of Leicester, England, and colleagues.

The study found anorexia to carry twice the death risk of schizophrenia and three times the death risk of bipolar disorder. Although anorexia is by far the deadliest eating disorder, death rates are also higher than normal in people with bulimia and "eating disorder not otherwise specified" (EDNOS, a common diagnosis for people with a mixture of atypical anorexia and atypical bulimia)...."

Deadliest Psychiatric Disorder: Anorexia (http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/anorexia-nervosa/news/20110711/deadliest-psychiatric-disorder-anorexia)

[Villages PL]

First things first: (short-term and long-term disease need focus)

"Anorexia is the most lethal psychiatric disorder, carrying a sixfold increased risk of death -- four times the death risk from major depression.

The odds are even worse for people first diagnosed with anorexia in their 20s. They have 18 times the death risk of healthy people their age, according to an analysis of the medical literature by Jon Arcelus, MD, PhD, of the University of Leicester, England, and colleagues.

The study found anorexia to carry twice the death risk of schizophrenia and three times the death risk of bipolar disorder. Although anorexia is by far the deadliest eating disorder, death rates are also higher than normal in people with bulimia and "eating disorder not otherwise specified" (EDNOS, a common diagnosis for people with a mixture of atypical anorexia and atypical bulimia)...."

Deadliest Psychiatric Disorder: Anorexia (http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/anorexia-nervosa/news/20110711/deadliest-psychiatric-disorder-anorexia)

I have never doubted the high risk of death for anorexics. But I doubt that this board would have any helpful impact. First of all, where are they? I've lived in The Villages since 1999 and have only seen one person that I suspected of being anorexic. And I say "suspected" because she might have had something other than anorexia. For example, she might have had inflammatory bowel disease (IBD).

But assuming you could find someone with anorexia, how would you propose to be of help? Don't they need professional help? And looking at the big picture, what is the health care cost of anorexia in the U.S.? Then compare that cost with the U.S. health care cost for the overweight and obese.

That would make for an interesting comparison and might help to put things in proper perspective.

[senior citizen]

Search: How many people affected from anorexia nervosa in the U.S.?

Answer: It is estimated that 0.6 % of adults will suffer from anorexia in their lifetime.

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Search: Percentage of Overweight, Obese Americans Swells

Answer: 63.1% of Americans are overweight or obese.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Of the two problems above, which is the bigger problem that we need to focus on?

P.S. I couldn't find any statistics on orthorexia. However, if it does exist, it may actually be the same as anorexia. In that case, it's nothing new.

Anorexia is a "control issue".........whereas overweight is often from lack of exercise while consuming more calories than is needed for a sedentary lifestyle ....or for those who find it painful to move due to arthritis, etc.
Anorexia nervosa: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/anorexia/DS00606/DSECTION=symptoms)

A true anorexic is not hard to spot , but they often wear very baggy clothes to hide their bones.......perhaps not in Florida, but definitely in the northern states.........

Orthorexia — When eating healthy goes awry - MayoClinic.com (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/orthorexia/MY00768)
Orthorexia When eating healthy goes awry Mayo Clinic

[Villages PL]

Orthorexia: When Eating Healthy Becomes an Unhealthy Obsession (http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/060109p40.shtml)

You have posted this link before and I have pointed out that the author herself has stated the following: "....[Orthorexia] is not yet a clinically recognized term or disorder...."

It's a bogus disease; read the following link.

http://www.rawveganradio.com/healthy-eaters-have-an-eating-disorder/

[Shimpy]

MODERATION ?????? It's an individual thing. I know myself better than anyone else and like Clint Eastwood said in his role of Dirty Harry, "a man has to know his limitations". I know I have an addictive personality and must avoid what I need to since moderation doesn't work for me. It's all or nothing. If for example I had a chocolate chip cookie I would tell myself that I already blew it so I'd have the rest of the box.

[Villages PL]

MODERATION ?????? It's an individual thing. I know myself better than anyone else and like Clint Eastwood said in his role of Dirty Harry, "a man has to know his limitations". I know I have an addictive personality and must avoid what I need to since moderation doesn't work for me. It's all or nothing. If for example I had a chocolate chip cookie I would tell myself that I already blew it so I'd have the rest of the box.

You raised a good point and I think it's the reason why close to 80% of diets fail. People have been told (promoted by the fast food industry) that they should be able to eat all their favorite foods in moderation. But it's just not realistic. Today, fast-foods are an addiction for most people and the fast food industry doesn't want that "gravy-train" to stop. If more and more people get the idea that they have to eliminate certain foods altogether, fast-food industry profits could take a big hit. So, what to do? Nip it in the bud by stigmatizing healthy eaters as being Orthorexic.

[Barefoot]

Nip it in the bud by stigmatizing careful eaters as being Orthorexic.

Do you think it's possible that Anorexics also consider themselves "careful eaters"?

[ilovetv]

You raised a good point and I think it's the reason why close to 80% of diets fail. People have been told (promoted by the fast food industry) that they should be able to eat all their favorite foods in moderation. But it's just not realistic. Today, fast-foods are an addiction for most people and the fast food industry doesn't want that "gravy-train" to stop. If more and more people get the idea that they have to eliminate certain foods altogether, fast-food industry profits could take a big hit. So, what to do? Nip it in the bud by stigmatizing healthy eaters as being Orthorexic.

I've never heard people say "eat with moderation" meaning that one should "be able to all their favorite foods in moderation". What I think it means is "don't starve and deprive yourself" and "don't pig out, either"! To me, eating a "moderate" amount of a fattening food means a "reasonable" amount....not too much, and not "none" or "so little that you keep on craving it and so you keep shoving substitutes in that do not help". If somebody craves a steak, a lettuce salad is not going to help. So in other words, have a steak now and then--not often--and don't make it a 3 pound one, but make it a "moderate" sized one with a "moderate" amount of fat that can be trimmed off once it has provided some flavor to the meat.

[Villages PL]

I've never heard people say "eat with moderation" meaning that one should "be able to all their favorite foods in moderation". What I think it means is "don't starve and deprive yourself" and "don't pig out, either"! To me, eating a "moderate" amount of a fattening food means a "reasonable" amount....not too much, and not "none" or "so little that you keep on craving it and so you keep shoving substitutes in that do not help". If somebody craves a steak, a lettuce salad is not going to help. So in other words, have a steak now and then--not often--and don't make it a 3 pound one, but make it a "moderate" sized one with a "moderate" amount of fat that can be trimmed off once it has provided some flavor to the meat.

In the past, there have been people saying "everything in moderation". But, of course, they never quite state how it really works. And no one ever questioned them about it. So it's all left up to one's imagination. With no guidelines, I take it to mean "everything".

Many years ago, I studied the Zone philosophy by Dr. Sears. It had its good points and bad points. One good thing about it was that it offered concrete guidelines. For example, a woman, being generally smaller than a man, would be allowed to eat a 3 oz portion of meat. A man would be allowed a 4 oz. portion. There were also guidlines for fat and carbs.

But since I moved on I have found other diet regimens that don't require animal protein and I don't feel at all deprived. I call myself a vegan, but I do allow myself a small amount of animal protein. For example, 3 jumbo (omega-3) eggs per week (one every other day during the week) and about 3 ounces ounces of salmon per week. I started on the eggs about 3 months ago because Egglands Best eggs are rich in iodine and I needed a little more iodine to bring my thyroid function up to normal. I also started using a small amount of iodized salt. My doctor had told me that diet wouldn't make any difference but I proved him wrong.

I'll tell you something that most people refuse to believe: I don't crave fast food and I really like the natural whole foods that I eat every day. My diet consists of fresh fruit, non-starchy vegetables, legumes, nuts, and whole grains. I use a small amount of olive oil and lemon juice as a dressing for salads, and a small amount of olive oil to flavor soups.

[Barefoot]

In the plast, there have been people saying "everything in moderation". But, of course, they never quite state how it really works. And no one ever questioned them about it. So it's all left up to one's imagination. With no guidelines, I take it to mean "everything".

Many years ago, I studied the Zone philosophy by Dr. Sears. It had its good points and bad points. One good thing about it was that it offered concrete guidelines. For example, a woman, being generally smaller than a man, would be allowed to eat a 3 oz portion of meat. A man would be allowed a 4 oz. portion. There were also guidlines for fat and carbs.

But since I moved on I have found other diet regimens that don't require animal protein and I don't feel at all deprived. I call myself a vegan, but I do allow myself a small amount of animal protein. For example, 3 jumbo (omega-3) eggs per week (one every other day during the week) and about 3 ounces ounces of salmon per week. I started on the eggs about 3 months ago because Egglands Best eggs are rich in iodine and I needed a little more iodine to bring my thyroid function up to normal. I also started using a small amount of iodized salt. My doctor had told me that diet wouldn't make any difference but I proved him wrong.

I'll tell you something that most people refuse to believe: I don't crave fast food and I really like the natural whole foods that I eat every day. My diet consists of fresh fruit, non-starchy vegetables, legumes, nuts, and whole grains. I use a small amount of olive oil and lemon juice as a dressing for salads, and a small amount of olive oil to flavor soups.

The definition of moderation is very simple and easy to understand. "The avoidance of excess or extremes".

[jimbo2012]

perhaps in the dictionary, but with food most don't draw the line where they should.

If folks could do it do U think so many would be over weight?

Moderation is word used by people who don't have will power, it's an excuse.

is it one cookie or 6, next time is it.......

[senior citizen]

perhaps in the dictionary, but with food most don't draw the line where they should.

If folks could do it do U think so many would be over weight?

Moderation is word used by people who don't have will power, it's an excuse.

is it one cookie or 6, next time is it.......

I "hear you" but , in my own opinion, I would think that many when they say "moderation" are referring to the fact that on a daily basis they would adhere to a sensible diet (whatever that may be for them personally) but they would enjoy "other foods" when celebrating an occasion with family and friends.....again, whether it be a holiday dinner or an evening out.
Just my opinion.

To me, moderation would not mean indulging in ice cream for dessert at every meal, or even each night...........but never say never......in other words, not so strict that one can never enjoy a certain food or dessert.

We hardly eat beef anymore...........but if we were having a barbecue, I would indulge in a grilled hamburger.........

Also, when one has a family that visits.........one has to think of all the varied "tastes" and make something for everyone.......

If one lives alone, it's a lot easier to stick to a more rigid routine..........

But I totally understand all of those who proclaim "All things in moderation".......

There are folks who could eat a thin sliver of cheesecake at a celebratory meal........while there are others who could devour the entire cheesecake.

[Applepie]

15 years ago I lost 20 lbs on Weight Watchers. I have not gained any of the weight back. I am 5'2" and weigh 110 lbs. I eat everything I want per the WW plan in moderation. What is my definition of moderation? Last week I had a craving for Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. We went, I ordered a slice, ate 2 bites and gave the rest away to my table mates. But I agree, if you crave steak, a salad won't satisfy you. Portion control is important. When I go to a restaurant, I order what I want, ask for a box before I get my meal and cut my dinner in half, place it under my chair and enjoy my meal. Works for me.

[senior citizen]

15 years ago I lost 20 lbs on Weight Watchers. I have not gained any of the weight back. I am 5'2" and weigh 110 lbs. I eat everything I want per the WW plan in moderation. What is my definition of moderation? Last week I had a craving for Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. We went, I ordered a slice, ate 2 bites and gave the rest away to my table mates. But I agree, if you crave steak, a salad won't satisfy you. Portion control is important. When I go to a restaurant, I order what I want, ask for a box before I get my meal and cut my dinner in half, place it under my chair and enjoy my meal. Works for me.

Very sensible way of coping with an over abundance of food......

Not to mention, cheesecake is very rich and very caloric......so a bite or two is satisfying enough.......

You are obviously doing something right.

[Villages PL]

Do you think it's possible that Anorexics also consider themselves "careful eaters"?

Good question. That may very well be true but they break some very important rules of health. 1) They go way too low on the BMI scale and 2) they deprive themselves of the necessary nutrients needed to support life.

[Polar Bear]

...Moderation is word used by people who don't have will power, it's an excuse...

Gimme a break.

[CFrance]

I think moderation, for those who truly employ it, is indicative of a very strong willpower.

[jimbo2012]

Gimme a break.


No, it's fact

[Uptown Girl]

I think moderation, for those who truly employ it, is indicative of a very strong willpower.

Yep.

[Villages PL]

If one has to have junk food in moderation, for enjoyment, it sounds like an addiction. Just the fact that you have to have it periodically is very telling. There are alcoholics who only get drunk on weekends. Are they not still alcoholics? If you think it's not an addiction, try not having it anymore and see what happens.

[jimbo2012]

If you think it's not an addiction, try not having it anymore and see what happens.

Agree, try it with your favorite unhealthy food

[Polar Bear]

If one has to have it in moderation, for enjoyment, it sounds like an addiction. Just the fact that you have to have it periodically is very telling. There are alcoholics who only get drunk on weekends. Are they not still alcoholics? If you think it's not an addiction, try not having it anymore and see what happens.

All this just from somebody saying they do something in "moderation"?? To say that's a stretch is a moderate understatement at the very least.

[BarryRX]

I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a fanatic about it......I eat meat!:pepper2:

[jimbo2012]

then U R not

[Polar Bear]

No, it's fact

To you I do believe it's fact.

[Polar Bear]

I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a fanatic about it......I eat meat!:pepper2:

So you're a Steve Martin vegetarian...he always said: "I'm a vegetarian. Oh sure...I have a cheeseburger now and then." :^)

[jblum315]

There are alcoholics who Never get drunk because they are sipping alcohol in very small amounts from the time they wake up until they go to bed again. I think Winston Churchill was one such.

[Villages PL]

All this just from somebody saying they do something in "moderation"?? To say that's a stretch is a moderate understatement at the very least.

Stretching is good for you, in moderation of course.:icon_wink:

[Villages PL]

There are alcoholics who Never get drunk because they are sipping alcohol in very small amounts from the time they wake up until they go to bed again. I think Winston Churchill was one such.

Yes, that's a good example of the so called moderation that everyone talks about. I have cousins who sip alcohol all evening long but never appear to be drunk. A popular ex-president was a good example of someone practicing moderation as he popped an occasional jelly-bean during the day and had a few drinks in the evening. It's always considered moderate to the person who's addicted. Another (former) president was fond of consuming fast food and, although it seemed moderate, it led to him having a heart bypass operation.

[CFrance]

There are alcoholics who Never get drunk because they are sipping alcohol in very small amounts from the time they wake up until they go to bed again. I think Winston Churchill was one such.

Would you call that moderate drinking, or drinking moderately? :beer3::shrug:

[Villages PL]

The most important change he made, since the bypass, was to stop eating processed junk, and he seems to be doing well. I think Jimbo said he became a vegan or vegitarian. When people don't change their diet after a bypass, their arteries usually get clogged up again.