CVS to weigh workers

[Cisco Kid]

CVS Workers Must Report How Much They Weigh Or Pay $600 Fine | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/20/1747541/cvs-weight-fine/?mobile=wt)

[buggyone]

Employee wellness programs are a great idea. This should encourage employees to slim down instead of over-indulging on Twinkies and cream soda.

[Lbmb24101]

A few yrs before I retired from the scool system, the health insurance had a $50.00 monthly surcharge in the premium for smokers and another 50.00 if your spouse could be covered elsewhere but chose the board of ed health ins.
Insurance will get harder and harder as time goes on, privacy seems to be a thing of the past, and what are we to do?
I do agree with the smoking surcharge but the weight seems a bit too much.
Weight can be thyroid issues, heredity, side effects of medication, etc
And so very few are at an ideal weight...plus the workforce average age increases w people living longer. On the other hand, encouraging people to be healthy is good but in this economy, $600/ yr is a lot of dough.

[tag460]

Good for CVS, more employers should do the same, obesity cost the health care system millions in return our insurance rates are higher.

[jebartle]

I would have preferred giving healthy employees incentive. Probably should be an option to participate, this is America, Right?, those that are living a healthy lifestyle with good results, should be given a decreased healthcare rate.



Employee wellness programs are a great idea. This should encourage employees to slim down instead of over-indulging on Twinkies and cream soda.

[Geewiz]

The difference between smoking and obesity is that one is a lifestyle choice (smoking) and the other (obesity) has a strong genetic component. While it's fair for an employer to encourage that the chronically obese seek treatment for the side effects of their condition (diabetes - high blood pressure) and try to make lifestyle choices that help mitigate their genetic tenancy - the only established "cure" that works close to 100% over a 5 to 10 year period is bariatric surgery (typically - a gastric bypass). Blaming obese folks for being obese is like blaming black folks for being black...genes are genes. The Nazi's tried to eliminate those with an "undesirable" genetic heritage...I would like to think we have progressed from that point of view.

[Heartnsoul]

CVS Workers Must Report How Much They Weigh Or Pay $600 Fine | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/20/1747541/cvs-weight-fine/?mobile=wt)

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

[G&P SSSKI]

:agree:

[Geewiz]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

I agree as well...a fine argument for moving to a single-payer system like the French have...but, oops, we have moved into politics and the last 3 comments (including this one) will (rightfully) be found off topic.

[Heartnsoul]

we should be able to discuss the new "affordable health care act" that is current events , correct?? We are not mentioning any politicians, names, parties, etc.. just FACTS of what is going on.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

:agree: Plus weight by it's self doesn't tell you much. Body fat % along with several other measures are better indications. You can be 6ft tall and weight 200 lbs with 6% body fat or you could be 6ft tall and weight 200 lbs 30% body fat same height, same weight over all health based just on weight / BMI totally different

[Suzi]

The difference between smoking and obesity is that one is a lifestyle choice (smoking) and the other (obesity) has a strong genetic component. While it's fair for an employer to encourage that the chronically obese seek treatment for the side effects of their condition (diabetes - high blood pressure) and try to make lifestyle choices that help mitigate their genetic tenancy - the only established "cure" that works close to 100% over a 5 to 10 year period is bariatric surgery (typically - a gastric bypass). Blaming obese folks for being obese is like blaming black folks for being black...genes are genes. The Nazi's tried to eliminate those with an "undesirable" genetic heritage...I would like to think we have progressed from that point of view.
A strong genetic component should not give license to eat everything you desire (or stuff your face as a previous poster had suggested) not any more than a family history of alcoholism should allow you to drink anything you want "because it is inevitable". I'd be a rich woman if I had $10 for every patient that told me "I'm a diabetic cuz my family was or I have high blood pressure because my family all have it". It is because they are too fat or overweight. I have ALL those problems in my genetics and I try to keep myself in decent shape and weight. NO EXCUSES.
As far a CVS, what do you think the company looses in lost revenues from these weight related health problems? Think about it - if you owned a business and had the choice of hiring someone overweight (who has all sort of potential health problems) or one of average weight who is less likely to need time off or incur lots of medical expenses - which would you hire? Time is money when you own a business. How do you deal with absences due to poor health. Who takes their place? Does production stop? Businesses are so lean these days that there are not extra bodies to take over someone else's job. BESIDES THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WON'T BE A HEALTHY WEIGHT UNLESS THEY HAVE TO. And thats a fact. Whether its me who keeps trim because of a "genetic predisposition" or the person who needs a job and can't keep one because they are too overweight.....it comes to the same conclusion........don't be fat or overweight.

[gomoho]

Suzi - if only it were that easy everyone would be thin - which doesn't necessarily equate to healthy. Focus should be on a healthy lifestyle - plenty of people can carry extra weight and still be healthy. Too big an issue to generalize -" just don't be fat."

[janmcn]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

The fines that will be imposed on employers under the Affordable Care Act do not take effect until 2014, when the ACA takes effect.

When I was employed by a large corporation for 25 plus years, we were required to maintain a certain weight or lose our job. We were weighed periodically and got time off without pay to lose weight or be terminated.

These rules resulted in many court cases, but the courts always ruled in the company's favor. This goes back to the 1960-1990's. More companies should impose these rules today.

[CarolSells]

Forbes article today: Obesity Now Costs Americans More In HealthCare Spending Than Smoking

A few points from the article:

Quote {Reuters is reporting that obesity in America is now adding an astounding $190 billion to the annual national healthcare price tag, exceeding smoking as public health enemy number one when it comes to cost.

How serious is the problem? Obesity has risen a full 34% since 1960 while morbid obesity is up sixfold.

Making the cost impact all the more troubling is the fact that, unlike smokers, obese people tend to live almost as long as those who keep their weight under control. ”Smokers die early enough that they save Social Security, private pensions, and Medicare” trillions of dollars”, said Duke’s Eric Finkelstein. “But mortality isn’t that much higher among the obese.”Unquote

Hmmm.. seems like all of us alive today are from the same gene pool that existed in the 1960's. JMHO.

Obesity Now Costs Americans More In HealthCare Spending Than Smoking - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-now-costs-americans-more-in-healthcare-costs-than-smoking/)

[Geewiz]

A strong genetic component should not give license to eat everything you desire (or stuff your face as a previous poster had suggested) not any more than a family history of alcoholism should allow you to drink anything you want "because it is inevitable". I'd be a rich woman if I had $10 for every patient that told me "I'm a diabetic cuz my family was or I have high blood pressure because my family all have it". It is because they are too fat or overweight. I have ALL those problems in my genetics and I try to keep myself in decent shape and weight. NO EXCUSES.
As far a CVS, what do you think the company looses in lost revenues from these weight related health problems? Think about it - if you owned a business and had the choice of hiring someone overweight (who has all sort of potential health problems) or one of average weight who is less likely to need time off or incur lots of medical expenses - which would you hire? Time is money when you own a business. How do you deal with absences due to poor health. Who takes their place? Does production stop? Businesses are so lean these days that there are not extra bodies to take over someone else's job. BESIDES THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WON'T BE A HEALTHY WEIGHT UNLESS THEY HAVE TO. And thats a fact. Whether its me who keeps trim because of a "genetic predisposition" or the person who needs a job and can't keep one because they are too overweight.....it comes to the same conclusion........don't be fat or overweight.

Don't forget to bleach that little brush mustache - it's so disquieting.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Forbes article today: Obesity Now Costs Americans More In HealthCare Spending Than Smoking

A few points from the article:

Quote {Reuters is reporting that obesity in America is now adding an astounding $190 billion to the annual national healthcare price tag, exceeding smoking as public health enemy number one when it comes to cost.

How serious is the problem? Obesity has risen a full 34% since 1960 while morbid obesity is up sixfold.

Making the cost impact all the more troubling is the fact that, unlike smokers, obese people tend to live almost as long as those who keep their weight under control. ”Smokers die early enough that they save Social Security, private pensions, and Medicare” trillions of dollars”, said Duke’s Eric Finkelstein. “But mortality isn’t that much higher among the obese.”Unquote

Hmmm.. seems like all of us alive today are from the same gene pool that existed in the 1960's. JMHO.

Obesity Now Costs Americans More In HealthCare Spending Than Smoking - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-now-costs-americans-more-in-healthcare-costs-than-smoking/)

Yes and in the 60's many more people smoked so maybe that accounts for obesity issues of today? everybody should light up and lose weight.

[tommy steam]

Good for CVS, more employers should do the same, obesity cost the health care system millions in return our insurance rates are higher.

Last night on NBC news they said that the cost was in the Billions. I don't remember but it was a lot of billions.

[Serenoa]

Employee wellness programs are a great idea. This should encourage employees to slim down instead of over-indulging on Twinkies and cream soda.

hadn't had one in years, but been jonesing for a Twinkie ever since Hostess went belly up.

thanks for bringing them to my attention....again. :mmmm:

[Suzi]

Don't forget to bleach that little brush mustache - it's so disquieting.

I guess I must be a little dense......what does that mean?

[CarolSells]

Yes and in the 60's many more people smoked so maybe that accounts for obesity issues of today? everybody should light up and lose weight.

:p Well, I guess that wouldn't be a very popular idea.....however divorce is always a great diet...just sayin'. :22yikes:

[Geewiz]

I guess I must be a little dense......what does that mean?

Some obesity is lifestyle related; but many folks dealing with morbid obesity eat no differently than their thinner friends. Without knowing the causes of an individual's obesity - blaming, punishing, mocking is at best ignorant and in extreme, similar to the anti-semitic/anti-gypsy attitudes of many Germans in the 1930's. One Austrian/German came up with a "final solution" to rid Europe of these genetic inferiors. He had a brush mustache.

This is a personal issue for me as I come from a chronically obese family that's also Jewish. We experienced far more prejudice due to size than heritage.

It wasn't lifestyle..my thin spouse ate more than me and my two half-brothers (who were raised in a different home) also had the curse.

Of all of us, I opted for surgery (which is not an "easy" option - unless feeling sick after each meal sounds fun and the possibility of immediate defecation is your cup of tea). Still, the surgery works and I am down 150 lbs and still losing.

Still, it is hard to forget the taunts growing up and the rude comments directed at me while with my family.

Prejudice is prejudice. Frankly, now less obese, I take more offense to it as it is no longer my shame. It's like hearing someone cry out, "******." It is offensive and needs to be called out.

[gomoho]

Geewiz - congratulations on a job well done - sorry for the pain others have inflicted. The intolerance of so many on this forum is very unfortunate and I always try to remember that "there but for the grace of God go I". None of us are perfect, no one would rather be miserable that not, but sometimes it just doesn't work out for everyone. So can't we be somewhat more compassionate and less judgemental of our fellow man?

[KeepingItReal]

Some obesity is lifestyle related; but many folks dealing with morbid obesity eat no differently than their thinner friends. Without knowing the causes of an individual's obesity - blaming, punishing, mocking is at best ignorant and in extreme, similar to the anti-semitic/anti-gypsy attitudes of many Germans in the 1930's. One Austrian/German came up with a "final solution" to rid Europe of these genetic inferiors. He had a brush mustache.

This is a personal issue for me as I come from a chronically obese family that's also Jewish. We experienced far more prejudice due to size than heritage.

It wasn't lifestyle..my thin spouse ate more than me and my two half-brothers (who were raised in a different home) also had the curse.

Of all of us, I opted for surgery (which is not an "easy" option - unless feeling sick after each meal sounds fun and the possibility of immediate defecation is your cup of tea). Still, the surgery works and I am down 150 lbs and still losing.

Still, it is hard to forget the taunts growing up and the rude comments directed at me while with my family.

Prejudice is prejudice. Frankly, now less obese, I take more offense to it as it is no longer my shame. It's like hearing someone cry out, "******." It is offensive and needs to be called out.

Great post and glad you are doing well as my niece had the same surgery and is also doing well. I totally agree that in a lot of cases it does amount to prejudice and the folks that struggle with it are suffering enough already without being the focus of the entire country and especially those so self-righteous that are condemning them. We don't blame cancer patients for getting cancer and scorn them nor those that get early onset Alzheimers in their 30-40s and we should not blame those that struggle with weight issues. We can say lifestyle is the reason for any illness or problem and scorn those that are unfortunate enought to experience a problem, but wait until they start firing people of a certain age, not that they don't now, just because they can hire younger, leaner, people to replace them that are a lot further away from being in the age bracket where health issues start happening. Unfortuntely we all age no matter how well we take care of ourselves and age will bring health issues never experienced before no matter what we do.

www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-w-small-md/the-coming-epidemic-of-al_b_734226.html

[perrjojo]

The article says CVS workers must report weight, glucose levels and body fat to the insurer or pay a fine. It does not say they pay a penalty for higher weight, etc. Private insurance often does require a physical exam as well. I'm not saying it is a good or bad idea...only that CVS is not collecting the info; the insurer is.

[janmcn]

The article says CVS workers must report weight, glucose levels and body fat to the insurer or pay a fine. It does not say they pay a penalty for higher weight, etc. Private insurance often does require a physical exam as well. I'm not saying it is a good or bad idea...only that CVS is not collecting the info; the insurer is.

You are correct, and it is the insurer that is charging the extra $600 per year.

[saratogaman]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!
On what do you base that conclusion?
It's not mentioned in the original article presented to us.
If you have specific info to support your statement, please cite source.

[mrfixit]

hadn't had one in years, but

been "jonesing for a Twinkie" ever since Hostess went belly up.

thanks for bringing them to my attention....again. :mmmm:

Luckily our supply of Hostess.....
................TWINKIES ...HO-HO's ...DING DONGS and CUP CAKES...
.................................................. ..should be available again by fall.
C. Dean Metropoulos and his sons Daren and Evan (Metropoulos & Co.)
have partnered with Apollo Global Mgt. (Leon Black) to purchase the Old "Hostess" money machine.

[njbchbum]

Some obesity is lifestyle related; but many folks dealing with morbid obesity eat no differently than their thinner friends. Without knowing the causes of an individual's obesity - blaming, punishing, mocking is at best ignorant and in extreme, similar to the anti-semitic/anti-gypsy attitudes of many Germans in the 1930's. One Austrian/German came up with a "final solution" to rid Europe of these genetic inferiors. He had a brush mustache.

This is a personal issue for me as I come from a chronically obese family that's also Jewish. We experienced far more prejudice due to size than heritage.

It wasn't lifestyle..my thin spouse ate more than me and my two half-brothers (who were raised in a different home) also had the curse.

Of all of us, I opted for surgery (which is not an "easy" option - unless feeling sick after each meal sounds fun and the possibility of immediate defecation is your cup of tea). Still, the surgery works and I am down 150 lbs and still losing.

Still, it is hard to forget the taunts growing up and the rude comments directed at me while with my family.

Prejudice is prejudice. Frankly, now less obese, I take more offense to it as it is no longer my shame. It's like hearing someone cry out, "******." It is offensive and needs to be called out.

great post and great job with your health! your surgical procedure required more of a lifestyle adjustment that most anyone here realizes! sorry you had to bear the slings and arrows from the ignorant; and thanx for calling them out for it...prejudice is prejudice!

[mrfixit]

I'd be a rich woman if I had $10 for every patient that told me "I'm a DIABETIC cuz my family was or I have high blood pressure because my family all have it". IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO FAT OR OVERWEIGHT.

.......I will relay your deep thinking approach to my dear friend Dave ....
...................his ultra thin daughter died of Juvenile Diabetes at eleven.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=KeepingItReal;646286]Great post and glad you are doing well as my niece had the same surgery and is also doing well. I totally agree that in a lot of cases it does amount to prejudice and the folks that struggle with it are suffering enough already without being the focus of the entire country and especially those so self-righteous that are condemning them. We don't blame cancer patients for getting cancer and scorn them nor those that get early onset Alzheimers in their 30-40s and we should not blame those that struggle with weight issues. We can say lifestyle is the reason for any illness or problem and scorn those that are unfortunate enought to experience a problem, but wait until they start firing people of a certain age, not that they don't now, just because they can hire younger, leaner, people to replace them that are a lot further away from being in the age bracket where health issues start happening. Unfortuntely we all age no matter how well we take care of ourselves and age will bring health issues never experienced before no matter what we do."END of QUOTE.

Your post is excellent and very compassionate and very fair and very thought provoking...

It gets my best post of the entire day award. Since Swimdawg has somehow left the building and doesn't award her awards anymore.

[kbace6]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

:agree:

[Villages PL]

Good for CVS! I love it.

[janmcn]

That's NOT progress!!! That's a result of the new Affordable Healthcare Law!!

On what do you base that conclusion?
It's not mentioned in the original article presented to us.
If you have specific info to support your statement, please cite source.

The poster can't cite a source since the Affordable Care Act hasn't started yet and doesn't start until 2014. The exchanges haven't even been made available at this time.

[Heartnsoul]

cvs is requiring workers who use company health insurance to report their weight, and body fat and glucose levels to the insurer - or pay a $600 a year penalty.
If workers don't sign up, their medical coverage will jump by $50 a month.

CVS spokesperson Michael D'angelis said this will help manage health associated costs.

Patient Privacy Rights founder Dr. Deborah Peet added that mounting health care costs have made these polices increasingly popular.

Rising health care costs are killing the economy and businesses are terrified. Employers are desperate to get rid of workers who have costly health conditions , like obesity and diabetes. More people will lose their jobs as the "affordable healthcare" kicks in and businesses are just starting to brace for what is to come. You don't think "out of the blue" "all of a sudden" a drugstore is concerned with your weight?? We're not talking a weight loss business here keeping track of their employees.

[graciegirl]

cvs is requiring workers who use company health insurance to report their weight, and body fat and glucose levels to the insurer - or pay a $600 a year penalty.
If workers don't sign up, their medical coverage will jump by $50 a month.

CVS spokesperson Michael D'angelis said this will help manage health associated costs.

Patient Privacy Rights founder Dr. Deborah Peet added that mounting health care costs have made these polices increasingly popular.

Rising health care costs are killing the economy and businesses are terrified. Employers are desperate to get rid of workers who have costly health conditions , like obesity and diabetes. More people will lose their jobs as the "affordable healthcare" kicks in and businesses are just starting to brace for what is to come. You don't think "out of the blue" "all of a sudden" a drugstore is concerned with your weight?? We're not talking a weight loss business here keeping track of their employees.

Heartnsoul. That is a very logical explanation.

[tag460]

I sorry I was off on the facts and please note the lost in productivity by employees. In 2011 the total economic cost of overweight and obesity in the United States is $270 billion per year while the cost in Canada is about $30 billion a year, a new study shows. The $300 billion total cost in the United States and Canada is the result of: increased need for medical care ($127 billion); loss of worker productivity due to higher rates of death ($49 billion); loss of productivity due to disability of active workers ($43 billion); and loss of productivity due to total disability ($72 billion), said the Society of Actuaries (SOA). An SOA online survey of 1,000 adults found that 83% would be willing to follow a healthy lifestyle program if they received incentives from their health insurance plan.

[KeepingItReal]

I sorry I was off on the facts and please note the lost in productivity by employees. In 2011 the total economic cost of overweight and obesity in the United States is $270 billion per year while the cost in Canada is about $30 billion a year, a new study shows. The $300 billion total cost in the United States and Canada is the result of: increased need for medical care ($127 billion); loss of worker productivity due to higher rates of death ($49 billion); loss of productivity due to disability of active workers ($43 billion); and loss of productivity due to total disability ($72 billion), said the Society of Actuaries (SOA). An SOA online survey of 1,000 adults found that 83% would be willing to follow a healthy lifestyle program if they received incentives from their health insurance plan.



Not sure what value they put on lives lost to being hit by drunk drivers but we all pay these costs as well.

CDC: Alcohol Abuse Costs U.S. $224 Billion a Year Does not include Canada.

By Maggie Fox
Updated:
October 17, 2011 | 2:13 p.m.

People who drink too much cost the U.S. economy $223.5 billion a year, and governments pay more than 60 percent of their health care costs, federal health experts reported on Monday.
Alcohol abuse kills 79,000 people a year, the report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found.
Most of the costs came from binge drinking, which the CDC defines as four or more drinks per occasion for a woman, and five or more drinks per occasion for a man.
“It is striking that over three-quarters of the cost of excessive alcohol consumption is due to binge drinking, which is reported by about 15 percent of U.S. adults,” the CDC’s Dr. Robert Brewer said in a statement. “Fortunately, there are a number of effective public health strategies that communities can use to reduce binge drinking and related harms, such as increasing the price of alcohol and reducing alcohol outlet density.”
Writing in the November 2011 issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, the CDC team, working with the consultant firm The Lewin Group, said they analyzed national data from several national studies to report on the costs of alcohol overuse in 2006, the latest year for which complete data was available.
They found most of the costs—72 percent—came from lost workplace productivity. Another 11 percent came from direct health costs, 9 percent could be attributed to law enforcement expenses, and 6 percent to costs from motor vehicle accidents.



Tobacco-Related Monetary Costs in the USA
Total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking: $96 billion
-Annual Federal and state government smoking-caused Medicaid payments: $30.9 billion
[Federal share: $17.6 billion per year. States’ share: $13.3 billion]
-Federal government smoking-caused Medicare expenditures each year: $27.4 billion
-Other federal government tobacco-caused health care costs (e.g. through VA health care): $9.6 billion
• Annual health care expenditures solely from secondhand smoke exposure: $4.98 billion

[graciegirl]

I sorry I was off on the facts and please note the lost in productivity by employees. In 2011 the total economic cost of overweight and obesity in the United States is $270 billion per year while the cost in Canada is about $30 billion a year, a new study shows. The $300 billion total cost in the United States and Canada is the result of: increased need for medical care ($127 billion); loss of worker productivity due to higher rates of death ($49 billion); loss of productivity due to disability of active workers ($43 billion); and loss of productivity due to total disability ($72 billion), said the Society of Actuaries (SOA). An SOA online survey of 1,000 adults found that 83% would be willing to follow a healthy lifestyle program if they received incentives from their health insurance plan.


We have friends who live in Germany and I can vouch for the fact that what happens when a country has socialized medicine compared to what those of us who have worked and positioned ourselves and paid for good private health insurance all these years are used too, to me anyway is frightening.

I personally know a woman who was diagnosed with breast cancer who lived in The Netherlands and she had to wait for treatment...for some time. I can't remember just how long. Sweetie stayed with the company he worked for for fifty years partially because one of the benefits was good insurance.

Now all things are being thrown up in the air. I know it sounds like me, me, and us, us, but we planned on being protected by this insurance that has always done so and I am confused and worried and want to point fingers at someone.

I am terribly sorry moderators, I am afraid what I just typed is political.

[Heartnsoul]

Sure sounds like thousands, maybe millions more will lose their jobs if the requirement is now to be a certain weight. If a cashier who is 200 lbs can stand behind the register at CVS for 7 hrs, then she should be able to. Let's not judge people by their weight but by their ability to perform their job. Imagine all those who will be let go if "weight" comes into the equation. Of course more jobs will be lost as businesses are required to cut their staff to under 50 employees so they don't have to offer coverage. And we wonder why small businesses aren't opening. And our kids, who are barely making it, will be penalized if they CAN'T afford to buy insurance. Its going to be interesting watching the new "affordable healthcare" come into play now. CVS will be the first of many more to come as businesses get frightened about how to even stay afloat.

[Monkei]

Yet another reason for single payer.

[RedChariot]

A strong genetic component should not give license to eat everything you desire (or stuff your face as a previous poster had suggested) not any more than a family history of alcoholism should allow you to drink anything you want "because it is inevitable". I'd be a rich woman if I had $10 for every patient that told me "I'm a diabetic cuz my family was or I have high blood pressure because my family all have it". It is because they are too fat or overweight. I have ALL those problems in my genetics and I try to keep myself in decent shape and weight. NO EXCUSES.
As far a CVS, what do you think the company looses in lost revenues from these weight related health problems? Think about it - if you owned a business and had the choice of hiring someone overweight (who has all sort of potential health problems) or one of average weight who is less likely to need time off or incur lots of medical expenses - which would you hire? Time is money when you own a business. How do you deal with absences due to poor health. Who takes their place? Does production stop? Businesses are so lean these days that there are not extra bodies to take over someone else's job. BESIDES THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WON'T BE A HEALTHY WEIGHT UNLESS THEY HAVE TO. And thats a fact. Whether its me who keeps trim because of a "genetic predisposition" or the person who needs a job and can't keep one because they are too overweight.....it comes to the same conclusion........don't be fat or overweight.

WOW! You refer to "patients." If you are a nurse or Dr. I am appauled by your lack of empathy. Thank god I never had you as part of my health care. Obese people are the last minority that it is ok to discriminate against. Refuse to allow them to board an airplane, take away their insurance or have them pay big fines. That will really help won't it. You would not even think to do this to a Black or Hispanic person. Nor the disabled. Shame on you.

[buggyone]

Obese people are not denied airline boarding. Sometimes they have to buy two tickets because they take up two seats.

[janmcn]

WOW! You refer to "patients." If you are a nurse or Dr. I am appauled by your lack of empathy. Thank god I never had you as part of my health care. Obese people are the last minority that it is ok to discriminate against. Refuse to allow them to board an airplane, take away their insurance or have them pay big fines. That will really help won't it. You would not even think to do this to a Black or Hispanic person. Nor the disabled. Shame on you.

People don't choose to be black or hispanic or disabled, but 99.9999999% of obese people are obese because of their own bad choices.

[Geewiz]

People don't choose to be black or hispanic or disabled, but 99.9999999% of obese people are obese because of their own bad choices.

That's both ignorant and wrong. CDC Features - Obesity & Genetics (http://www.cdc.gov/features/obesity/)

[rubicon]

Wow! Am I glad my genes allow me to consume more than the average guy and yet keep my boyish figure. Did I read where the BMI is seriously flawed?

Did I read where insurers are doing the math and finding that the Affordable Act ain 't affordable and could well double premiums? Did I read that better than 50% of the 40 million people entering the health insurance programs will be getting hefty subsidies from the government. Hmmmmmm that means people like me are going to support this health care insurance system both from increased premiums and also by increased taxes

I am glad CVS and its insurer are apply punitive measures toward these obese and irresponsible people. Thank God they wouldn't resort to those incentive programs insuerers used in the past that rewarded people for good behavior such as the rewards program my wife's corporation sponsored wherein employees were paid up to $500 for agreeing to a complete physical including lab work, colonoscopy followed my recommendations for improvements. Better Big Brother take the lead the rest of us are incapable

I don't think CVS goes far enough; I believe in order to reduce insurance rates corporations and their insurer should:

Apply penalities to those people whose genetic makeup cause them to be obsese, mentally ill, having any physical disablility

Apply double penalities for those people who abuse prescriptions drugs, illegal drugs,

Apply double penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and have more than 2.1 babies per family.

Apply double penalities for any people caught going in excess of the speed limit, flying in a plane or for that matter penalitie in porportion of the city they commute in highest in New York City. Los Angles lower in Butte MT

apply triple penalities if you live in the bad sections of chicago, New York Los angles because your chances of being shot are greater

Apply triple penalities for people who fail to pracice safe sex which leads to STD's

Apply quadruple penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and contract HIV/AIDS

Now that is a definition of fairness an insurance actuary could love

What is wrong with us?

[Geewiz]

Let's be clear...the causes and cures for obesity are many. For some the genetic factor is so strong - a diet well under 1000 calories/day is the only option (short of surgery)...think that's doable 24/7/365 for the rest of your life...try it...I managed it for 3 years...then I just couldn't.

For others a moderate decrease in calories and increase in activity will produce the desired weight loss.

The problem with many of these posts and the CVS policy is that it assumes everyone falls into something closer to the second catagory.

It is in the diet industry's interest, and even the medical industry (docs, too) to assume the latter category will provide the fix. Why? Well, for the diet industry - the motive is profit. For the medical industry - it is in everyone's interest to try the least invasive option, first. If behavior modification works everyone wins.

Unfortunately, recent studies show very mixed/bad outcomes with just behavior modification. This is a report on a recent study out of Britian: Only one in 100 dieters keeps the weight off | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-164233/Only-100-dieters-keeps-weight-off.html)

What is clear here is that ignorance and prejudice are in no short supply and the unfortunate thing is that dumb opinions first manifest in corporate policy and then insidiously work their way into public policy. This de-evolution of our culture is a sad thing but as Forest Gump said - "Stupid is as Stupid Does."

[lovsthosebigdogs]

Is this the same CVS that has shelves filled with candy bunnies, jelly beans, sugar cereals, greasy snacks like potato chips and faux healthy ones like popcorn with 13 grams of fat per serving, cases filled with sugared soda, high energy boosting drinks that make people's hearts race to name a few of the other unhealthy things they sell. Yeah, it's ok to sell them, but not ok to actually EAT them if you work at CVS because t hey will make you gain weight or raise your blook pressure. It seems like just working for that company can raise your pressure.
There are so many reasons for things we can't understand that I for one work hard not to judge anyone on how they look or why they do what they do.

[Cisco Kid]

Wow! Am I glad my genes allow me to consume more than the average guy and yet keep my boyish figure. Did I read where the BMI is seriously flawed?

Did I read where insurers are doing the math and finding that the Affordable Act ain 't affordable and could well double premiums? Did I read that better than 50% of the 40 million people entering the health insurance programs will be getting hefty subsidies from the government. Hmmmmmm that means people like me are going to support this health care insurance system both from increased premiums and also by increased taxes

I am glad CVS and its insurer are apply punitive measures toward these obese and irresponsible people. Thank God they wouldn't resort to those incentive programs insuerers used in the past that rewarded people for good behavior such as the rewards program my wife's corporation sponsored wherein employees were paid up to $500 for agreeing to a complete physical including lab work, colonoscopy followed my recommendations for improvements. Better Big Brother take the lead the rest of us are incapable

I don't think CVS goes far enough; I believe in order to reduce insurance rates corporations and their insurer should:

Apply penalities to those people whose genetic makeup cause them to be obsese, mentally ill, having any physical disablility

Apply double penalities for those people who abuse prescriptions drugs, illegal drugs,

Apply double penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and have more than 2.1 babies per family.

Apply double penalities for any people caught going in excess of the speed limit, flying in a plane or for that matter penalitie in porportion of the city they commute in highest in New York City. Los Angles lower in Butte MT

apply triple penalities if you live in the bad sections of chicago, New York Los angles because your chances of being shot are greater

Apply triple penalities for people who fail to pracice safe sex which leads to STD's

Apply quadruple penalities for people who fail to practice safe sex and contract HIV/AIDS

Now that is a definition of fairness an insurance actuary could love

What is wrong with us?

Is this what you saw about health insurance

Health Insurers Warn on Premiums - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324557804578374761054496682.html?m od=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories)

[RedChariot]

People don't choose to be black or hispanic or disabled, but 99.9999999% of obese people are obese because of their own bad choices.

Do you really think anyone would choose to be obese? To live with shame and ridicule from the likes of you? I think not. Educate yourself on the issue.

[Suzi]

WOW! You refer to "patients." If you are a nurse or Dr. I am appauled by your lack of empathy. Thank god I never had you as part of my health care. Obese people are the last minority that it is ok to discriminate against. Refuse to allow them to board an airplane, take away their insurance or have them pay big fines. That will really help won't it. You would not even think to do this to a Black or Hispanic person. Nor the disabled. Shame on you.

Yes, I am a health care provider. And I am guessing you have never had SO many patients in your office who are "litterly" dying of obesity. Yes, dying. A diabetic that is so out of control that their feet and legs are falling off or have gangrene. We cannot control their insulin levels even in the hospital. Or the patient who can't walk to the bathroom even with their oxygen because their lungs don't ventilate because their abdomen is so high and pressing up on their lungs. Or they can't lay down and breathe for the same reason.

Yes, gastric bypass can be an answer for some. It has its own set of side-effects as well AND many patients out-eat their bypasses. YES out-eat them.
But the most concerning issue to all of us is the rate of obesity and at a cost of $50,000 - $100,000 a bypass (average costs including unexpected complications), how can we as a nation afford that. Would it not be in everyones best interest to eat better and maintain a healthy weight to begin with?

You think I seem heartless, unfeeling and uncaring? Do you have any idea how painful it is to watch this happening to a patient (and their loved ones). Patients that you have cared for years and warned them that their life-style choices were going to cost them in terms of pain and suffering. It hurts beyond belief to watch them suffer - the pain in their legs....sometimes I can't give them pain medicine because it will decrease their respirations which could cause death. And when they realize they are not going home.....all I can offer is my compassion and promise that I will watch over their family.

Yes, it is awful, watching helplessly as people eat themselves to an early death. I wish I never had to do it again. It reminds me of a famous baseball player who said "If I had known I would have lived so long, I would have taken better care of myself". Please don't shoot the messenger but this is what I see everyday. More and more and more obese people so that 12 of 20 patients I see everyday are on this destructive course.

[mrfixit]

we should be able to discuss the new "affordable health care act" that is current events , correct?? We are not mentioning any politicians, names, parties, etc..

just FACTS of what is going on.

...FACT.....the new Affordable Health Care Act ( AHCA) will only allow
a 3 times swing from lowest to highest premium for ANY class........

Currently a 8 times swing is generally used.
FOR EXAMPLE....
A 70 yr old male pays 8 times as much $ premium as a 21 year old male.
70 year old male pays $800.........21 year old pays $100 for same coverage.

NEW RULE...under AHCA...as written...
...70 year old male rate can only be 3 times the 21 year olds' rate.

GUESS who is going to have a MAJOR premium increases.

.....increase the 21 year olds' premium to $ 266. (up from $100)...
the insurance company will be able to charge the 70 year old the $800.

Some of those in Congress were told there IS a Forest out there...
they replied ... "no way.....there is only a bunch of trees".

[RedChariot]

Yes, I am a health care provider. And I am guessing you have never had SO many patients in your office who are "litterly" dying of obesity. Yes, dying. A diabetic that is so out of control that their feet and legs are falling off or have gangrene. We cannot control their insulin levels even in the hospital. Or the patient who can't walk to the bathroom even with their oxygen because their lungs don't ventilate because their abdomen is so high and pressing up on their lungs. Or they can't lay down and breathe for the same reason.

Yes, gastric bypass can be an answer for some. It has its own set of side-effects as well AND many patients out-eat their bypasses. YES out-eat them.
But the most concerning issue to all of us is the rate of obesity and at a cost of $50,000 - $100,000 a bypass (average costs including unexpected complications), how can we as a nation afford that. Would it not be in everyones best interest to eat better and maintain a healthy weight to begin with?

You think I seem heartless, unfeeling and uncaring? Do you have any idea how painful it is to watch this happening to a patient (and their loved ones). Patients that you have cared for years and warned them that their life-style choices were going to cost them in terms of pain and suffering. It hurts beyond belief to watch them suffer - the pain in their legs....sometimes I can't give them pain medicine because it will decrease their respirations which could cause death. And when they realize they are not going home.....all I can offer is my compassion and promise that I will watch over their family.

Yes, it is awful, watching helplessly as people eat themselves to an early death. I wish I never had to do it again. It reminds me of a famous baseball player who said "If I had known I would have lived so long, I would have taken better care of myself". Please don't shoot the messenger but this is what I see everyday. More and more and more obese people so that 12 of 20 patients I see everyday are on this destructive course.

I was a health care provider for many years. When I began exhibiting behaviors and feeling you are expressing I retired. Patients need a non judgemental approach to their care and you seem to have lost yours.

[ilovetv]

I was a health care provider for many years. When I began exhibiting behaviors and feeling you are expressing I retired. Patients need a non judgemental approach to their care and you seem to have lost yours.

I don't think Suzi was being "judgmental" by stating the naked, factual reality to people here who don't get it: that it's painful for a healthcare provider to watch their patients slowly, wretchedly killing themselves with over-eating, just as it is painful to watch a person kill themselves with booze or narcotics or anorexia.

With the morbidly obese people I've known/observed, their approach to food and romancing it seems more rooted in a mental/psychological/psychiatric problem than in a physiological one.

[janmcn]

Do you really think anyone would choose to be obese? To live with shame and ridicule from the likes of you? I think not. Educate yourself on the issue.

I didn't say they choose to be obese. Overweight people make bad choices in the food and beverages they choose to consume.

[JourneyOfLife]

The difference between smoking and obesity is that one is a lifestyle choice (smoking) and the other (obesity) has a strong genetic component. ..

So is age and almost every other aspect of human life. Some have real medical problems that are the root cause... but the majority have an overeating, poor eating habits, and lack of basic exercise problem. Yes some have a metabolism that may require more strict attention to diet and exercise. But, as they say.... life is not fair.... get over it!

Underwriting based on BMI (and rating the insured) is fairly common and the few healthcare funding providers that are not doing it soon will.

It is not about healthcare per se, it is not about genetic/tendency, it is not about moral choices... on and on.

It is about money and economics.... and increasingly... limited/strained health care capacity (money, facility, professionals, drugs, etc).... which ties back to.... guess what?

We can't have it both ways. There are several ways to reduce healthcare costs.

Everyone seems to find different approaches unacceptable... Their reason for not liking it... They think it will somehow affect them in some negative way (real or imagined).

Our current approach is extremely expensive and probably unsustainable. If it were sustainable, we will eventually choose a different approach due to the extremely high cost we will soon be enduring.

We all can expect much more of the cost of healthcare to be shifted our way... the money has to come from somewhere.

[Villages PL]

That's both ignorant and wrong. CDC Features - Obesity & Genetics (http://www.cdc.gov/features/obesity/)

I don't see that your link provides any conclusive proof that obesity can all be blamed on genes. It only states possible genetic causes. And one thing I have learned from my studies is that genes don't act alone to cause disease. For example, a person may have a gene for cancer and never get cancer. A person may have a gene for Alzheimer's and never develop that disease.

Not to mention the fact that they have a lot of genes they are looking at that they think MAY play a role in obesity. Nothing about it is certain.

However, one thing for certain that I notice on these forums is that only a minority of people take diet-control seriously. The majority either think it's a joke or that life is to be enjoyed by eating the processed foods that they like . They say that life is too short to be depriving one's self. It's a poor attitude and they pass that attitude on to their children and grandchildren. They actually encourage poor eating habits.

So it's not so much the fault of the genes that are pased on from generation to generation but the attitudes, habits and traditions. Let's clean it up.

[ilovetv]

This explains best what I've seen. This book has been around over 20 years, and the reader reviews at the book link affirm this core problem:

“A life-changing book.” — Oprah

In this moving and intimate book, Geneen Roth, bestselling author of Feeding the Hungry Heart and Breaking Free from Compulsive Eating, shows how dieting and emotional eating often become a substitute for intimacy.

Drawing on her own painful personal experiences, as well as the candid stories of those she has helped in her seminars, Roth examines the crucial issues that surround emotional eating: need for control, dependency on melodrama, desire for what is forbidden, and the belief that one wrong move can mean catastrophe.

She shows why many people overeat in an attempt to satisfy their emotional hunger, and why weight loss frequently just uncovers a new set of problems. But her welcome message is that change is possible. This book will help readers break destructive, self-perpetuating patterns and learn to satisfy all the hungers—physical and emotional—that make us human."

See book and reviews at the link/icon below: When Food Is Love: Exploring the Relationship Between Eating and Intimacy

http://www.amazon.com/When-Food-Love-Exploring-Relationship/dp/0452268184

[Bucco]

...FACT.....the new Affordable Health Care Act ( AHCA) will only allow
a 3 times swing from lowest to highest premium for ANY class........

Currently a 8 times swing is generally used.
FOR EXAMPLE....
A 70 yr old male pays 8 times as much $ premium as a 21 year old male.
70 year old male pays $800.........21 year old pays $100 for same coverage.

NEW RULE...under AHCA...as written...
...70 year old male rate can only be 3 times the 21 year olds' rate.

GUESS who is going to have a MAJOR premium increases.

.....increase the 21 year olds' premium to $ 266. (up from $100)...
the insurance company will be able to charge the 70 year old the $800.

Some of those in Congress were told there IS a Forest out there...
they replied ... "no way.....there is only a bunch of trees".

Understand that the Affordable Care Act has many many tentacles and many companies are trying to "get ready" as best they can.

One article I read right before the Supreme Court decision on the act spells out a bit...


"A little-discussed ramification of Thursday's landmark Supreme Court health care decision is that it could make things harder for the nation's heaviest workers.

The decision upholding the Affordable Care Act has cleared the way for a planned increase in the penalties that employers can impose on workers who don't participate in company wellness programs and, in some cases, who don't meet certain health targets such as an appropriate body mass index. In other words, the obese may wind up paying penalties for being overweight. Smokers, too, may get hit.

The language of the penalties under corporate health plans is often written in terms of "incentives," where the "absence of a surcharge" on health care premiums is an "incentive" for employees to agree to take part in a wellness program. Read another way, that means workers who don't agree to participate have to pay a fine. President Barack Obama's health care law raises the limit on how high a penalty employers can set to "incentivize" participation in the programs, which typically consist of health risk assessments (often including blood tests), fitness classes, disease management plans and nutrition education.

Those most likely to be affected by the increase are cigarette smokers and obese people, two groups who studies show account for a disproportionately high percentage of health care spending.

Consider one current employer plan. Swiss Village Retirement Community in Berne, Ind., gives employees $500 discounts on their health care deductibles for meeting each of the following metrics, "not smoking, having a BMI of 27.5 or less, a low-density lipoprotein cholesterol level (LDL) of 130 milligrams per deciliter or less, and blood pressure of 130/85 or less," according to the Kaiser Health Network. Those who don't reach the goals but participate in the program are given $250 discounts. Those who don't participate at all pay full price.

But studies show that health care plans offering rewards, like the one at Swiss Village, are rapidly giving way to plans that offer rewards and assess penalties. According to a report from benefits consulting firm Towers Watson, which was cited in Forbes, 38 percent of employers expect to have such penalties in place by the end of 2012."

Health Plan Costs For Obese And Smokers Could Rise After Supreme Court Ruling (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/health-plans-obese-smokers-supreme-court_n_1636139.html)

Lots of changes on the horizon and keep in mind that those in congress who passed this did not read it so expect changes as it becomes uncomfortable for those same folks who may lose votes because of this piece of legislation.

[JourneyOfLife]

Understand that the Affordable Care Act has many many tentacles and many companies are trying to "get ready" as best they can.

One article I read right before the Supreme Court decision on the act spells out a bit...

[B]
"A little-discussed ramification of Thursday's landmark Supreme Court health care decision is that it could make things harder for the nation's heaviest workers.



These practices have been going on in the private industry for years. Nothing new... unless of course you are talking about government funded programs!

Besides, it is not a penalty, it is called underwriting and rating. Common procedures in the insurance industry... always has been!!!!

Why shouldn't the government adopt practices that are common in private industry? Would you rather they jack up premium across the board for everyone?

[Bucco]

These practices have been going on in the private industry for years. Nothing new... unless of course you are talking about government funded programs!

Besides, it is not a penalty, it is called underwriting and rating. Common procedures in the insurance industry... always has been!!!!

Why shouldn't the government adopt practices that are common in private industry? Would you rather they jack up premium across the board for everyone?

I am not passing judgement on anyone or anything. I am simply stating that this companies actions will not stand alone. I might add that the law if you read it makes punishment instead of incentive the action word.

If you read todays NYTimes, I think this law is not getting to law very easily as the health costs are getting higher and higher

For clarification, as I understand it, CVS employees could gain incentives on their health care in the past and those who did not do what was asked just got NO incentives.

NOW....they will pay......

"A new policy by CVS Pharmacy requires every one of its nearly 200,000 employees who use its health plan to submit their weight, body fat, glucose levels and other vitals or pay a monthly fine.

Employees who agree to this testing will see no change in their health insurance rates, but those who refuse will have to pay an extra $50 per month — or $600 per year — for the company’s health insurance program. All employees have until May 1, 2014, to make an appointment with a doctor and record their vitals.

“The approach they’re taking is based on the assumption that somehow these people need a whip, they need to be penalized in order to make themselves healthy,” Patient Privacy Rights founder Dr. Deborah Peel said."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/03/20/cvs-pharmacy-wants-workers-health-information-or-theyll-pay-a-fine/



Critics are calling the policy coercion, and worrying that CVS or any other company might start firing sick workers."


My only point was that this company is not alone in changing the landscape and quickly as the law will force them to punish instead of reward and that the law, if you read it unlike those who passed it, you will find a number of changes on the horizon for everyone !

NO JUDGEMENT...JUST STATING FACTS that save the surprise on what CVS is doing for maybe the other costly items to come !!!

Again, not passing judgement ...simply calling to attention that lots of tentacles to this act that most have no read and will not until it hits them int he pocket book or some other way

[rubicon]

Is this what you saw about health insurance

Health Insurers Warn on Premiums - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324557804578374761054496682.html?m od=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories)

Cisco Kid: I have subscribed to WSJ for many years and Yes the article is one of many the Journal published.

I am sick and tired of the government interference

[Bucco]

I am hoping this is not considered political....it certainly falls under current events as it may be one of the most serious problems facing the country, but with the conversation about CVS, it appears that many have not read about this bill and I implore you to read because you WILL be shocked as these things begin to take affect and it may behove you to understand WHY all is happening.

Keep in mind that TODAY, the Senate voted to not allow an ammendent proposed to keep illegal immigrants who may get a green card from receiving government health benefits. We are not speaking of folks who came legally but those who are here now illegally for whatever length of time and it appears our Senate would like to reward them with federal healthcare immediately upon getting "legal".

While companies like CVS struggle to meet the mandates and costs of the bill, imagine the cost when immigration reform is introduced because this bill had NO cost for them in it thus the already heavy taxes proposed will not be sufficient, and the folks in this class of illegals represent a large portion of the unemployed.

Again, the thread questions CVS, and this is just the beginning of lots of ramifications. CVS is simply doing what they need to do.

This is probably better served on its on thread on this bill, but the questions on CVS raise a very serious point and that is that we, the citizens of this country have no idea of what is ahead as a result and I applaud CVS, perhaps not for the contents of their rules, but their foresight in getting prepared.

"The Senate’s bipartisan immigration working group split along party lines during a contentious budget vote to prevent illegal immigrants who receive legal status from receiving federal health benefits.

The Senate early Saturday morning defeated the amendment to the budget resolution which would have put the Senate on record as opposing access to health care under Medicaid or the Affordable Care Act for undocumented immigrants who get a green card."

Immigration Vote Splits Gang of 8 : Roll Call News (http://cdn.rollcall.com/news/immigration_vote_splits_gang_of_8-223395-1.html?popular=true&pg=1&cdn_load=true&zkPrintable=1&nopagination=1)

Here is one example of something required by the bill but never funded and someone has to pay...

"WASHINGTON — One of the biggest threats to the success of President Obama’s health care law comes from shortages of doctors, nurses and other health care professionals. But a 15-member commission created to investigate the problem has never met in two and a half years because it has no money from Congress or the administration. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/health/health-care-panel-lacking-budget-is-left-waiting.html

This bill has many many redeeming qualities but was very ill conceived for the wrong reasons and I submit that the CVS news is simply the tip of many more surprising things to occur.

The liink from CISCO KID also addresses some of the costs to come......and if you didnt read the link, here is an portion and I hope that all of this makes folks actually find out what else besides CVS is coming.

"Health insurers are privately warning brokers that premiums for many individuals and small businesses could increase sharply next year because of the health-care overhaul law, with the nation's biggest firm projecting that rates could more than double for some consumers buying their own plans."

By the way, my links and CISCO's link are NOT old news...from TODAY !

[Geewiz]

Hey, why not extend the concept to Medicare? These are valuable tax dollars - any poor health practices should exclude you from receiving these funds. Smokers, drinkers, and the obese should be put on a program and correct their poor health practices, or their co-pays should be adjusted upward. Moreover, folks who didn't work and pay into the system should be denied benefits even though their spouse paid in as the spouse only paid for himself/herself. Also, the last 12 months of life use a disproportionate amount of Medicare resources. I say - cut'em off.

[skyc6]

Is this the same CVS that has shelves filled with candy bunnies, jelly beans, sugar cereals, greasy snacks like potato chips and faux healthy ones like popcorn with 13 grams of fat per serving, cases filled with sugared soda, high energy boosting drinks that make people's hearts race to name a few of the other unhealthy things they sell. Yeah, it's ok to sell them, but not ok to actually EAT them if you work at CVS because t hey will make you gain weight or raise your blook pressure. It seems like just working for that company can raise your pressure.
There are so many reasons for things we can't understand that I for one work hard not to judge anyone on how they look or why they do what they do.

Great post! I think the insurers should first have CVS rid their shelves of anything that could in any way contribute to a poor choice.
The empty shelves and loss of revenue would put them out of business!

To all you folks out there who feel you have the right to critique everyone else on their choices, please check your own first.
It may not be smoking or eating choices that are your downfall, but we are all human and we all have our weak points.
All that angst and stress is just as negative for your personal health as some of the other vices mentioned here. What's that about "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Y'all need to relax and smile some! You will feel a lot better for it!

[dsned]

I agree with Jebartle
Fit and healthy workers should get the lowest price and costs should be added for every vice and problem a person has. Its genetics that a person has a slow metabolism and their body converts everything to storage (fat) BUT is not genetics that makes a person over eat. All us people in the villages shouldn't worry about the new health care laws as we will be triaged anyway.

[JourneyOfLife]

I am not passing judgement on anyone or anything. I am simply stating that this companies actions will not stand alone. I might add that the law if you read it makes punishment instead of incentive the action word.

If you read todays NYTimes, I think this law is not getting to law very easily as the health costs are getting higher and higher

For clarification, as I understand it, CVS employees could gain incentives on their health care in the past and those who did not do what was asked just got NO incentives.

NOW....they will pay......

"A new policy by CVS Pharmacy requires every one of its nearly 200,000 employees who use its health plan to submit their weight, body fat, glucose levels and other vitals or pay a monthly fine.

Employees who agree to this testing will see no change in their health insurance rates, but those who refuse will have to pay an extra $50 per month — or $600 per year — for the company’s health insurance program. All employees have until May 1, 2014, to make an appointment with a doctor and record their vitals.

“The approach they’re taking is based on the assumption that somehow these people need a whip, they need to be penalized in order to make themselves healthy,” Patient Privacy Rights founder Dr. Deborah Peel said."

CVS Pharmacy Wants Workers’ Health Information, or They’ll Pay a Fine - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/03/20/cvs-pharmacy-wants-workers-health-information-or-theyll-pay-a-fine/)



Critics are calling the policy coercion, and worrying that CVS or any other company might start firing sick workers."


My only point was that this company is not alone in changing the landscape and quickly as the law will force them to punish instead of reward and that the law, if you read it unlike those who passed it, you will find a number of changes on the horizon for everyone !

NO JUDGEMENT...JUST STATING FACTS that save the surprise on what CVS is doing for maybe the other costly items to come !!!

Again, not passing judgement ...simply calling to attention that lots of tentacles to this act that most have no read and will not until it hits them int he pocket book or some other way

The "pay a fine" characterization wording is inflammatory and misleading. A headline grab by journalist that have nothing better at this time to write about.

It should read, if you choose to not provide the information for underwriting purposes so the insurance plan can set your premium rate, It will be assumed that you are at higher risk category and will be charged the premium rate from our high risk premium table. Higher risk people will pay $50/month more.

As I said earlier, what CVS is doing has been implemented in different variations for well over 10 years in company benefit plans. BMI, Smoking, etc. Providing Glucose level, some companies wellness programs go about that in different ways. Go to buy a private insurance policy and see what happens... It is not uncommon to require a full physical (depending on the coverage).

If it is illegal, I am sure there will be a court battle. There probably already has been cases in the past. But with the recent changes in the law... maybe the boundaries will be tested again.

This is the American System evolving and trying to control costs. None of us likes change... especially changes to the status quo where it requires something of us that might appear to be negative in someway.

All I can say is you better get used to change... there will be more of it.

One of the big changes is the attempt to proactively shift from disease management to health management for certain well known health problems.

It really is about money and economics. And the limited/strained capacity of our medical system.

Consider saving your outrage for the "potential" of large scale workplace abuses until they surface. We quite a number of laws and regulations for that sort of thing in place today.

Instead, you should be outraged at the cost of health care in the US and the fact that we are less healthy and have shorter lives than the rest of the developed countries. Look at the statistics on health by country and the cost of health care vs GDP per capita of developed nations.

Before we get too ahead of ourselves, let's see if we can preserve the precieved strengths of our American system and lower our costs too.

[Challenger]

Hey, why not extend the concept to Medicare? These are valuable tax dollars - any poor health practices should exclude you from receiving these funds. Smokers, drinkers, and the obese should be put on a program and correct their poor health practices, or their co-pays should be adjusted upward. Moreover, folks who didn't work and pay into the system should be denied benefits even though their spouse paid in as the spouse only paid for himself/herself. Also, the last 12 months of life use a disproportionate amount of Medicare resources. I say - cut'em off.

I think I am supportive of this posters concepts, but I'm also apprehensive about where such a process takes us . Should we not also charge higher premiums for risky behavior ? How about skiing, flying, sky diving, motorcycling, travel to foreign countries or even riding on streets with golf carts. These could also be assumed to carry greater health(accident) risks. Where will this take us?:duck:

[JourneyOfLife]

Hey, why not extend the concept to Medicare? These are valuable tax dollars - any poor health practices should exclude you from receiving these funds. Smokers, drinkers, and the obese should be put on a program and correct their poor health practices, or their co-pays should be adjusted upward. Moreover, folks who didn't work and pay into the system should be denied benefits even though their spouse paid in as the spouse only paid for himself/herself. Also, the last 12 months of life use a disproportionate amount of Medicare resources. I say - cut'em off.


Probably because the current federal statute for Medicare prevents it from happening.

But... anything that is not illegal is probably fair game. Who knows, they may end up changing the law.

For healthcare in general... I expect to see more lifestyle based underwriting for health care coverage. But some situations are not practical to implement or the cost savings do not cover the implementation cost.

Once one gets past the biggest issues of basic affordability and not being denied coverage... the question is who pays?

Since increasing capacity pushes the cost to everyone... ways to reduce the growth of capacity reduces overall cost. Stated a different way, may be the difference between someone getting in to see a doctor in a timely manner.

But for Medicare... the program appears to not be sustainable in terms of current funding. It will be another one of those "who pays battle".

What many do not realize (or refuse to realize) is that without medicare, old people would have no coverage. Insurers would exit the market... like flood insurance. If insurers were forced to stay in the market by law, very few would be able to afford the risk adjusted premium. I suspect most would be forced to settle for catastrophic major medical and go it on their own. The only reason retirees have employer based retirement healthcare coverage at all is because employers know those folks will shift to Medicare. Otherwise most all employers would would abruptly end those benefits... go the way of pensions.

For Medicare, I think a balanced approach should be taken. Every younger person (who lives) will eventually need coverage at an old age so they pay a little more into the system while they are young (however it is implemented). Us oldsters that can pay more for our coverage will have to do that as well. Fair is fair and somebody has to pay for it.