Three large dogs in City Fire Restuarant

[Cobh521]

I do not dislike dogs. In fact I had a dog for the past 18 years that recently passed. I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside. The waiter could not get near the table since the dogs were sitting there. These dogs had comfort tags on them but I do not believe this is the same as a service dog. While these women were waiting for a seat they had the whole entrance blocked by the dogs. I do not feel that these large dogs, who could eat off the tables standing ip, should be in a dining establishment. I am also allergic to these breeds. (I had a toy poodle). I would like some opinions on this matter as I felt if I complained I would be causing a ruckus of ADA

[gomoho]

What kind of dogs were they? and were they threatening in any way other than their size? Worked with a REALTOR that had a large dog with her at all times for protection -she was kidnapped at a showing. So you just never know why they had these dogs.

[Cobh521]

They were three different breeds and were not vey responsive to their owners commands. I believe service trained dogs are very responsive to owners commands.

[gerryann]

What are "comfort tags"?....and what were these dogs doing IN a resturant?

[graciegirl]

I only have this to offer. We have lived here for six years and have never experienced seeing any dog in a restaurant. I think I remember that I saw one or two outside of a restaurant.

I am just thinking it was a very unusual occurance.

[tkret]

Therapy dogs are not service or assistance dogs. Service dogs directly assist humans and have a legal right to accompany their owners in most areas. In the United States, service dogs are legally protected at the federal level by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Therapy dogs do not provide direct assistance and are not mentioned in the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Brief Information Resource on Assistance Animals for the Disabled (http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/companimals/assist.htm)
.

[pooh]

I do believe Comfort dogs are a type of therapy dog. These Comfort/therapy dogs were available when students arrived back to school, Sandy Hook Elementry.

Probably wasn't the best idea to bring three large dogs into the restaurant, but since they are therapy dogs, they probably can go in and be with their handlers.

[bluedog103]

They were three different breeds and were not vey responsive to their owners commands. I believe service trained dogs are very responsive to owners commands.

It's pretty much impossible to visually determine if a dog is a service dog. Tags are not required nor is documentation. The establishment is even prohibited from asking the nature of the disability of the owner of the service dog. The ADA is very specific about this.

[CFrance]

From Service and Therapy Dogs - ADA and State Rights (http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/serviceanimals/dog-rights.php)

"It is very important to remember that Therapy Dogs do not have the same rights as handlers of Service Dogs. Handlers of Service Dogs are protected under the ADA because of the disability the handler experiences. The distinction is highly-important, and there should be no misunderstanding that it is the Person with a Disability who is the handler of the Service Dog that has rights under the ADA; not the dog. The Service Dog is allowed access based upon the rights of the person with a disability."

I don't know what a comfort tag is, but I imagine these dogs were not service dogs and therefore had no rights under ADA to be inside the restaurant. Not to mention it wasn't a very good idea to bring three large dogs inside.

[renielarson]

Here's an explanation of a "comfort" dog.

Is a ‘Comfort Dog’ a Service Dog? | Delta Society – Animals Helping People - seattlepi.com (http://blog.seattlepi.com/deltasociety/2009/02/21/is-a-comfort-dog-a-service-dog/)

[perrjojo]

Funny that this post came up tonight. We just had dinner at Fiesta Grande at Colony and we sat next to a lab with a service vest. The handlers had no visible disability but that doesn't mean they did not have one. Another poster mentioned that you may NOT ask questions to the nature of a service dog and that is correct. I also know that anyone may buy a service vest for their dog. The dog at our restaurant was well behaved and unobtrusive.

[John_W]

The most unusual round of golf I ever had was in 2009 on a course outside Baltimore just off I-95. I went in the pro shop about 1pm as a single and was paying when a man entered with two chocolate brown Labrador Retrievers. The employee said 'no dogs allowed'. The man with the dogs said they are my service dogs and I can show you papers that will allow me to bring the dogs in here and with me on the course.

I ended being paired with this golfer. He had been in Myrtle Beach earlier on sales calls and was on his way home to Westchester, NY. The interstate was backed up, so he checked his GPS for a golf course and found The Wetlands. The dogs were trained to alert the man prior to having a seizure. They would somehow know when this was going to happen and would alert the man.

The dogs rode in the golf cart with the fellow. One on the seat and the other on the floor, they were big dogs, probably 75 pounds. They never presented any problems and the round of golf went like many others. Sometimes they would leave the cart and walk around. Once they went into the woods, he said they probably smelled an animal. Anyway, he yelled something and they ran right back to the cart. We finished the round and the man jumped into his car and went on to finish his drive to New York.


.

[CFrance]

It's pretty much impossible to visually determine if a dog is a service dog. Tags are not required nor is documentation. The establishment is even prohibited from asking the nature of the disability of the owner of the service dog. The ADA is very specific about this.


True. Plus, you can go online and buy a service dog coat, photo i.d. and service badge without providing any proof of disability or dog training. I checked this out because we took our dog overseas and, having no car, wanted to be able to take him on the metro. I chickened out (not much of a rule breaker). We walked him everywhere instead.

[Roaddog53]

I only have this to offer. We have lived here for six years and have never experienced seeing any dog in a restaurant. I think I remember that I saw one or two outside of a restaurant.

I am just thinking it was a very unusual occurance.

I have not seen any in a restaurant until recently. We also didn't know they are allowed on a restaurant patio. We were at Crispers this past week and a couple came in with a pug and a bowl of water for him. They sat by our table with the dog and the man than lit up a cigarette and started smoking. We were almost done and since it was strong and my wife is allergic to smoke, we got up and left. The couple near them turned and moved further away with their lunch. I asked on our way out and the server said dogs are allowed on the patio and so is smoking. Guess we don't eat outside at Crispers now.

[Chazz]

From Service and Therapy Dogs - ADA and State Rights (http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/serviceanimals/dog-rights.php)

"It is very important to remember that Therapy Dogs do not have the same rights as handlers of Service Dogs. Handlers of Service Dogs are protected under the ADA because of the disability the handler experiences. The distinction is highly-important, and there should be no misunderstanding that it is the Person with a Disability who is the handler of the Service Dog that has rights under the ADA; not the dog. The Service Dog is allowed access based upon the rights of the person with a disability."

I don't know what a comfort tag is, but I imagine these dogs were not service dogs and therefore had no rights under ADA to be inside the restaurant. Not to mention it wasn't a very good idea to bring three large dogs inside.

Service animals are not limited to dogs, although they are the most common such animals, by far. There are monkeys, cats, pigs and small horses, as incredible as that may sound.

[perrjojo]

I have not seen any in a restaurant until recently. We also didn't know they are allowed on a restaurant patio. We were at Crispers this past week and a couple came in with a pug and a bowl of water for him. They sat by our table with the dog and the man than lit up a cigarette and started smoking. We were almost done and since it was strong and my wife is allergic to smoke, we got up and left. The couple near them turned and moved further away with their lunch. I asked on our way out and the server said dogs are allowed on the patio and so is smoking. Guess we don't eat outside at Crispers now.

I have no problem eating next to the dog but the smoker....No way!

[perrjojo]

True. Plus, you can go online and buy a service dog coat, photo i.d. and service badge without providing any proof of disability or dog training. I checked this out because we took our dog overseas and, having no car, wanted to be able to take him on the metro. I chickened out (not much of a rule breaker). We walked him everywhere instead.

This made me laugh because I too bought the vest and ID for my dog but never used it. I just couldn't bring myself to be comfortable with that "lie".

[skyguy79]

I do not dislike dogs. In fact I had a dog for the past 18 years that recently passed. I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside. The waiter could not get near the table since the dogs were sitting there. These dogs had comfort tags on them but I do not believe this is the same as a service dog. While these women were waiting for a seat they had the whole entrance blocked by the dogs. I do not feel that these large dogs, who could eat off the tables standing ip, should be in a dining establishment. I am also allergic to these breeds. (I had a toy poodle). I would like some opinions on this matter as I felt if I complained I would be causing a ruckus of ADA
I've deleted my original comments placed here because they were redundant, but I retained the following link as it supports that the women and their dogs were not protected by the ADA.

Emotional Support Animals (ESA), Therapy Dogs & Rights : Service Dogs of Florida, Inc. (http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=22)

[CFrance]

This made me laugh because I too bought the vest and ID for my dog but never used it. I just couldn't bring myself to be comfortable with that "lie".

I totally understand!:ohdear:

[CFrance]

Funny that this post came up tonight. We just had dinner at Fiesta Grande at Colony and we sat next to a lab with a service vest. The handlers had no visible disability but that doesn't mean they did not have one. Another poster mentioned that you may NOT ask questions to the nature of a service dog and that is correct. I also know that anyone may buy a service vest for their dog. The dog at our restaurant was well behaved and unobtrusive.

They might have been the dog's trainers. Somebody takes the puppy for a year or so, providing basic training and experience in public, after which if they pass certain tests, they go on to a trainer for further specific training in their service area.

[angiefox10]

I don't know about the dogs you saw in City Fire. What I do know is there is a family/couple in the area who work with "service dogs" to train them so the dogs can be placed with a person who needs them. The couple are not handicapped but it's important the dogs learn to be in all public places. I would think the first time they take the dogs out they may not be very well behaved as they wouldn't know what they are supposed to do. I have seen them with as many as three dogs at a time and different dogs over the past year. The dogs also seem to be at different levels of competency. I'm not suggesting that's who you saw, just that I have seen these people and their dogs in the area many times in the past.

These dogs always have a vest on them stating they are in training.

[Bonny]

Two years ago hubby & I were flying out of Tampa. We spent the night before & went to Cheesecake Factory for dinner.
There was a man at the bar with a small dog on his lap. I said to the waitress that I didn't know dogs were allowed inside a restaurant. She said the man comes in quite often and that is his therapy dog.

[Bogie Shooter]

I see therapy dogs riding around in cute little strollers all the time!:evil6:

[gerryann]

I love dogs. I totally understand and respect the laws regarding service, therapy, comfort dogs, etc....but to bring three large dogs, at the same time into a restaurant on a busy day, makes no sense to me. What purpose would this serve in the training of a therapy dog? Three dogs? Together?

[DougB]

Just need to know if the dogs pooped and if the owner picked it up. Also, any sharing of deserts with these 3 dogs?

[gerryann]

I see therapy dogs riding around in cute little strollers all the time!:evil6:

Certainly possible, if the dog is elderly. Being old doesn't mean they have outlived their responsibility to help their master.

[ilovetv]

I love dogs and I like seeing service dogs helping people. But THREE big dogs, big enough for faces to be table height, is excessive in a restaurant as crowded as CityFire can be at either location.

I'm getting tired of people taking the attitude that rules should not apply to them, or rules are some relic of the past made by old sourpusses.

There are good reasons for having rules like no animals permitted (except for a service one) in a dining establishment.

[CFrance]

Just need to know if the dogs pooped and if the owner picked it up. Also, any sharing of deserts with these 3 dogs?

Now Doug...:MOJE_whot::doggie:

[KeepingItReal]

I have not seen any in a restaurant until recently. We also didn't know they are allowed on a restaurant patio. We were at Crispers this past week and a couple came in with a pug and a bowl of water for him. They sat by our table with the dog and the man than lit up a cigarette and started smoking. We were almost done and since it was strong and my wife is allergic to smoke, we got up and left. The couple near them turned and moved further away with their lunch. I asked on our way out and the server said dogs are allowed on the patio and so is smoking. Guess we don't eat outside at Crispers now.

Any restaurant that allows dogs, other than true service dogs, in the outside seating area is required to have a local permit and also comply with the minimum requirements outlined on this link or they are in violation of Florida State Laws.

Letting dogs in outside areas requires more than just permission, including posting signs, having hand sanitizer on each table, having a cleaning kit available in the outside area, and the server must remind customers to follow certain procedures such as washing their hands before eating.

These rules are Florida State Law.

www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/hr/hr-faq-dogs.html

One item from the link above.

9. Q. What are the minimum health or food safety conditions that must be met to allow pet dogs?

A. Any local ordinances allowing dogs must include the following minimum requirements:
All food service employees must wash their hands promptly after touching, petting, or otherwise handling dogs.
Employees cannot touch, pet, or otherwise handle dogs while serving food or beverages or handling tableware or before entering other parts of the establishment.
Patrons must be advised to wash their hands before eating. The establishment must provide waterless hand sanitizer at each table.
Dogs shall not come into contact with serving dishes, utensils, tableware, linens, paper products or any other items involved in food service operations.
Dogs shall be kept on a leash at all times and under reasonable control.
Dogs shall not be allowed on chairs, tables, or other furnishings.
Table and chair surfaces and any spillage shall be cleaned and sanitized between seating of patrons.
Accidents involving dog waste shall be cleaned immediately and the area sanitized with an approved product. Establishments are required to keep a kit containing cleaning materials in the designated outdoor area.
Signage reminding employees and patrons of adopted rules must be posted as required by local ordinance.
Dogs are not permitted to travel through any indoor or non-designated outdoor portions of the establishment. Ingress and egress to the designated, permitted, area cannot require entrance into or passage through any indoor area of the establishment.
Local governments may adopt additional requirements that must be met to obtain a permit.

[Patty55]

They might have been the dog's trainers. Somebody takes the puppy for a year or so, providing basic training and experience in public, after which if they pass certain tests, they go on to a trainer for further specific training in their service area.

That was my first thought, last summer I met some Goldens that were being trained for The Guide Dog Foundation. At the time they told me there something like a dozen being fostered here in TV.

[kimball]

I do not dislike dogs. In fact I had a dog for the past 18 years that recently passed. I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside. The waiter could not get near the table since the dogs were sitting there. These dogs had comfort tags on them but I do not believe this is the same as a service dog. While these women were waiting for a seat they had the whole entrance blocked by the dogs. I do not feel that these large dogs, who could eat off the tables standing ip, should be in a dining establishment. I am also allergic to these breeds. (I had a toy poodle). I would like some opinions on this matter as I felt if I complained I would be causing a ruckus of ADA

Disgusting!!!

[mickey100]

You could make a call to the State Health Dept. and report what you saw. They'll take it from there.

[memason]

Not sure why this is such an issue in the US. If you go to Europe, you will have dogs in dining establishments all the time.

Different cultures, I guess ????

[SannyTX]

Not sure why this is such an issue in the US. If you go to Europe, you will have dogs in dining establishments all the time.

Different cultures, I guess ????

True! I spent 6 years in Germany and found that the locals would leave the kids at home and take the dog with them to the restaurant. I MUCH preferred that! I'd rather have dinner next to a quiet, well behaved dog than a toddler.

[NotGolfer]

Service dogs wear a type of "vest-collar" to identify them. We know a man whose training a puppy to be one and this dog wears it at all times when they're out and about. His dog is young but knows the commands very well and will lie down under his chair!

It's these types of dogs that are generally allowed in establishments and not other dogs. Not knowing the details of this occurance that the OP talks about it's hard to make an opinion otherwise.

BUT if these were folks off the street asking to have their pets accompany them into a restaurant is going over-board. It's unappetising plus not healthy to have a dog's face on the table!!

[Madelaine Amee]

True! I spent 6 years in Germany and found that the locals would leave the kids at home and take the dog with them to the restaurant. I MUCH preferred that! I'd rather have dinner next to a quiet, well behaved dog than a toddler.

:BigApplause:

[birdawg]

Not sure why this is such an issue in the US. If you go to Europe, you will have dogs in dining establishments all the time.

Different cultures, I guess ????

And in parts of Asia they eat them!

[JourneyOfLife]

Some information on it

Is a ‘Comfort Dog’ a Service Dog? | Delta Society – Animals Helping People - seattlepi.com (http://blog.seattlepi.com/deltasociety/2009/02/21/is-a-comfort-dog-a-service-dog/)

I can understand why some need the animals with them (e.g. blind person with seeing eye dog). The dog performs a concrete function that no one can dispute.

But in subjective areas, most would find a doctor that would sign off on it (for the yearly fee of course) and it would be widely abused. The whole idea, other than the fact that we like our pets, is very subjective.

The "comfort animal" concept has a number of practical problems. If dogs, how about cats? How about a pet python? They all might bite. What is the difference other than your bias for a dog and someone else bias for a some specialty Lizard? How about birds?

I do not buy the argument of "I can't be without my comfort dog for an hour". I would say it is stated in the name: "Comfort", which does not mean "need"... more like a preference.


There also some other practical problems:

- Dogs and other animals, can bark and make noise
- They can (and do) get into fights
- They can (and do) attack people.
- They can (and do) relieve themselves whenever they choose.
- They can (and do) tend to want to roam. Even a trained dog is not going to want to sit like a statue in one place for an hour and a half.
- Probably a thousand other things too.

Sorry Fido relieved himself in the restaurant... but you were so rude to fido with that face you made, now fido is very upset.... "I'm not tipping." As they stomp out and leave fido's "Tip" on the floor.

[gomoho]

Just need to know if the dogs pooped and if the owner picked it up. Also, any sharing of deserts with these 3 dogs?

PRICELESS :clap2:

[CFrance]

:BigApplause:True! I spent 6 years in Germany and found that the locals would leave the kids at home and take the dog with them to the restaurant. I MUCH preferred that! I'd rather have dinner next to a quiet, well behaved dog than a toddler.

:BigApplause:

[eremite06]

Some information on it

Is a �Comfort Dog� a Service Dog? | Delta Society � Animals Helping People - seattlepi.com (http://blog.seattlepi.com/deltasociety/2009/02/21/is-a-comfort-dog-a-service-dog/)

I can understand why some need the animals with them (e.g. blind person with seeing eye dog). The dog performs a concrete function that no one can dispute.

But in subjective areas, most would find a doctor that would sign off on it (for the yearly fee of course) and it would be widely abused. The whole idea, other than the fact that we like our pets, is very subjective.

The "comfort animal" concept has a number of practical problems. If dogs, how about cats? How about a pet python? They all might bite. What is the difference other than your bias for a dog and someone else bias for a some specialty Lizard? How about birds?

I do not buy the argument of "I can't be without my comfort dog for an hour". I would say it is stated in the name: "Comfort", which does not mean "need"... more like a preference.


There also some other practical problems:

- Dogs and other animals, can bark and make noise
- They can (and do) get into fights
- They can (and do) attack people.
- They can (and do) relieve themselves whenever they choose.
- They can (and do) tend to want to roam. Even a trained dog is not going to want to sit like a statue in one place for an hour and a half.
- Probably a thousand other things too.

Sorry Fido relieved himself in the restaurant... but you were so rude to fido with that face you made, now fido is very upset.... "I'm not tipping." As they stomp out and leave fido's "Tip" on the floor.

The voice of reason. :coolsmiley:

[perrjojo]

The voice of reason. :coolsmiley:

That's not allowed on this forum. :a040:

[blueash]

Any restaurant that allows dogs, other than true service dogs, in the outside seating area is required to have a local permit and also comply with the minimum requirements outlined on this link or they are in violation of Florida State Laws.

Letting dogs in outside areas requires more than just permission, including posting signs, having hand sanitizer on each table, having a cleaning kit available in the outside area, and the server must remind customers to follow certain procedures such as washing their hands before eating.

These rules are Florida State Law.

FAQ - Dogs in Restaurants (http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/hr/hr-faq-dogs.html)

One item from the link above.

9. Q. What are the minimum health or food safety conditions that must be met to allow pet dogs?

A. Any local ordinances allowing dogs must include the following minimum requirements:
All food service employees must wash their hands promptly after touching, petting, or otherwise handling dogs.
Employees cannot touch, pet, or otherwise handle dogs while serving food or beverages or handling tableware or before entering other parts of the establishment.
Patrons must be advised to wash their hands before eating. The establishment must provide waterless hand sanitizer at each table.
Dogs shall not come into contact with serving dishes, utensils, tableware, linens, paper products or any other items involved in food service operations.
Dogs shall be kept on a leash at all times and under reasonable control.
Dogs shall not be allowed on chairs, tables, or other furnishings.
Table and chair surfaces and any spillage shall be cleaned and sanitized between seating of patrons.
Accidents involving dog waste shall be cleaned immediately and the area sanitized with an approved product. Establishments are required to keep a kit containing cleaning materials in the designated outdoor area.
Signage reminding employees and patrons of adopted rules must be posted as required by local ordinance.
Dogs are not permitted to travel through any indoor or non-designated outdoor portions of the establishment. Ingress and egress to the designated, permitted, area cannot require entrance into or passage through any indoor area of the establishment.
Local governments may adopt additional requirements that must be met to obtain a permit.



Full wording of the legislation is 509.233 - - 2012 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate (http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/509.233) and it seems to be in response to Federal regulation.

Anybody seen bottles of hand sanitizer on each table? Anybody seen the staff sanitize the tables and chairs after a dog patron visited, even if the dog never touched the table or chairs?
Anybody ever been advised by the ownership of the requirement to wash hands before eating?

[graciegirl]

True! I spent 6 years in Germany and found that the locals would leave the kids at home and take the dog with them to the restaurant. I MUCH preferred that! I'd rather have dinner next to a quiet, well behaved dog than a toddler.


The dogs and the children in Europe always seemed better behaved than ours.

I asked a cabbie why that was so, in Paris.

He answered in perfect French. "We beat them.". ;)

[Bill32]

My wife's aunt had her doctor write up something to say her dog is a therapy dog. The only reason she did this is because the dog doesn't like to be left home alone.!!!! Three people all with the same affliction??? Give me a break...........I know someone with handicap plates because he drives his mother to Walmart once a week but parks in handicapped spots without her............really?? Unfortunately people are selfish and will try to skirt any rule that they don't feel they like. Others will bend over backwards just to see if they can. Can't go out to dinner without your dog???? Really??

[Roaddog53]

Any restaurant that allows dogs, other than true service dogs, in the outside seating area is required to have a local permit and also comply with the minimum requirements outlined on this link or they are in violation of Florida State Laws.

Letting dogs in outside areas requires more than just permission, including posting signs, having hand sanitizer on each table, having a cleaning kit available in the outside area, and the server must remind customers to follow certain procedures such as washing their hands before eating.

These rules are Florida State Law.

FAQ - Dogs in Restaurants (http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/hr/hr-faq-dogs.html)

One item from the link above.

9. Q. What are the minimum health or food safety conditions that must be met to allow pet dogs?

A. Any local ordinances allowing dogs must include the following minimum requirements:
All food service employees must wash their hands promptly after touching, petting, or otherwise handling dogs.
Employees cannot touch, pet, or otherwise handle dogs while serving food or beverages or handling tableware or before entering other parts of the establishment.
Patrons must be advised to wash their hands before eating. The establishment must provide waterless hand sanitizer at each table.
Dogs shall not come into contact with serving dishes, utensils, tableware, linens, paper products or any other items involved in food service operations.
Dogs shall be kept on a leash at all times and under reasonable control.
Dogs shall not be allowed on chairs, tables, or other furnishings.
Table and chair surfaces and any spillage shall be cleaned and sanitized between seating of patrons.
Accidents involving dog waste shall be cleaned immediately and the area sanitized with an approved product. Establishments are required to keep a kit containing cleaning materials in the designated outdoor area.
Signage reminding employees and patrons of adopted rules must be posted as required by local ordinance.
Dogs are not permitted to travel through any indoor or non-designated outdoor portions of the establishment. Ingress and egress to the designated, permitted, area cannot require entrance into or passage through any indoor area of the establishment.
Local governments may adopt additional requirements that must be met to obtain a permit.



Things that make you go..Hmmmmm. We didn't see ANY of that at Crispers. Maybe they need to be sent this link. Definitely not the hand sanitizer on the tables or can't recall signs. What we really didn't care for though is the smoking. I thought smoking was not allowed in any establishment whether indoors or on a patio. Thought they had to be so far from the general public areas. Could be wrong though for this state. Was just surprised and did not make a big deal of it. Just got up and left and asked the question. When we got an answer, we now know and won't eat in the outdoor area.

[bluedog103]

Service dogs wear a type of "vest-collar" to identify them. We know a man whose training a puppy to be one and this dog wears it at all times when they're out and about. His dog is young but knows the commands very well and will lie down under his chair!

It's these types of dogs that are generally allowed in establishments and not other dogs. Not knowing the details of this occurance that the OP talks about it's hard to make an opinion otherwise.

BUT if these were folks off the street asking to have their pets accompany them into a restaurant is going over-board. It's unappetising plus not healthy to have a dog's face on the table!!

A vest-collar is not required. Some people use them for their service dogs, others don't.

[bluedog103]

Some information on it

Is a �Comfort Dog� a Service Dog? | Delta Society � Animals Helping People - seattlepi.com (http://blog.seattlepi.com/deltasociety/2009/02/21/is-a-comfort-dog-a-service-dog/)

I can understand why some need the animals with them (e.g. blind person with seeing eye dog). The dog performs a concrete function that no one can dispute.

But in subjective areas, most would find a doctor that would sign off on it (for the yearly fee of course) and it would be widely abused. The whole idea, other than the fact that we like our pets, is very subjective.


Do you personally know of any instances of this happening, where a doctor "just signed off on it (for a yearly fee of course)"?
The use of service dogs isn't subjective at all. The ADA is very clear, it's just that people aren't aware of what's in these laws or they disagree with them.
We all know about opinions.

[Patty55]

I'm more concerned with what the cooks are doing to my food in the back than a dog in the front.

[BobnBev]

I'm more concerned with what the cooks are doing to my food in the back than a dog in the front.

We're on the same page there, Patty.

[Madelaine Amee]

The dogs and the children in Europe always seemed better behaved than ours.

I asked a cabbie why that was so, in Paris.

He answered in perfect French. "We beat them.". ;)

The dogs and the children in Europe always seemed better behaved than ours. Unfortunately, so very true and I really don't know why.

[Madelaine Amee]

I'm more concerned with what the cooks are doing to my food in the back than a dog in the front.

I like your take on life!:ho: Also, I do hope they are washing their hands when they return to the kitchen!

[Barefoot]

I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside.

I'm sorry that you found this to be an uncomfortable situation. I just spoke with the manager of City Fire because I was curious about the back story. He told me the dogs were service dogs with proper documents. Just a thought ... perhaps these three women met and bonded over their common interest of fostering and training service dogs. Part of the training is experience in crowds and public situations.

As CFrance commented:

They might have been the dog's trainers. Somebody takes the puppy for a year or so, providing basic training and experience in public, after which if they pass certain tests, they go on to a trainer for further specific training in their service area.

[ilovetv]

I'm sorry that you found this to be an uncomfortable situation. I just spoke with the manager of City Fire because I was curious about the back story. He told me the dogs were service dogs with proper documents. Just a thought ... perhaps these three women met and bonded over their common interest of fostering and training service dogs. Part of the training is experience in crowds and public situations.

As CFrance commented:
They might have been the dog's trainers. Somebody takes the puppy for a year or so, providing basic training and experience in public, after which if they pass certain tests, they go on to a trainer for further specific training in their service area.

There are plenty of "crowds" and "public situations" at the three town squares every night with loud music booming, and on the patios of the bar-restaurants surrounding each of the squares as City Fire has in both locations.

There is no need to have three big dogs inside a restaurant here, to accustom them to being in public, crowded or noisy/busy foot traffic situations here!!

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I do not dislike dogs. In fact I had a dog for the past 18 years that recently passed. I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside. The waiter could not get near the table since the dogs were sitting there. These dogs had comfort tags on them but I do not believe this is the same as a service dog. While these women were waiting for a seat they had the whole entrance blocked by the dogs. I do not feel that these large dogs, who could eat off the tables standing ip, should be in a dining establishment. I am also allergic to these breeds. (I had a toy poodle). I would like some opinions on this matter as I felt if I complained I would be causing a ruckus of ADA

I don't see any reason why you couldn't have asked the manager about the dogs if they bothered you. How would City Fire know that customers might be bothered if nothing is said? The answer might have been oh those are service dogs.

[gerryann]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't have asked the manager about the dogs if they bothered you. How would City Fire know that customers might be bothered if nothing is said? The answer might have been oh those are service dogs.

There's no question that they were service dogs. There's just no reason to take them all into a busy restaurant at the same time. I would bet anything that not all three of these ladies were comfortable with having them all in there at the same time. I know it wasn't wrong. I know it was legal...it was just a pushing the ticket situation.

[Cobh521]

Next time I will ask the manager. These dogs did not have service dog gear on. They specifically had "comfort/therapy" vests on. From everything that I read on this, the dogs should not have been inside. Also, no hand cleansers offered or mentioned.

[rubicon]

Comfort dogs don't comfort some people. If a person is not inclined toward dogs then they will not be comfortable with a dog in a restaurant and at a hotel. We made reservation for a weekend at a hotel recommended by our hosts for a celebration for some friends. I was not a happy camper when people started showing up with their dogs when checking in. so the next time I make reservations for an overnight that is the first question I am asking them So three large dogs inside a restaurant would drive me out. It would have been more considerate had these three women remained on the outside patio with their darlings.

[perrjojo]

There's no question that they were service dogs. There's just no reason to take them all into a busy restaurant at the same time. I would bet anything that not all three of these ladies were comfortable with having them all in there at the same time. I know it wasn't wrong. I know it was legal...it was just a pushing the ticket situation.


Just as there is no reason for Grandparents to bring all of those CHILDREN in at the same time.

[Patty55]

Next time I will ask the manager. These dogs did not have service dog gear on. They specifically had "comfort/therapy" vests on. From everything that I read on this, the dogs should not have been inside. Also, no hand cleansers offered or mentioned.

Y'know, if you need to be sanitized because a dog is at another table there may be a bigger problem here.

It's almost a shame you didn't speak to the people, the women I met that were training for Guide Dog Foundation loved talking about what they were doing.

[Bonny]

There are plenty of "crowds" and "public situations" at the three town squares every night with loud music booming, and on the patios of the bar-restaurants surrounding each of the squares as City Fire has in both locations.

There is no need to have three big dogs inside a restaurant here, to accustom them to being in public, crowded or noisy/busy foot traffic situations here!!

I would think the training of service dogs inside is important. Outside on the patio & inside are really different situations. Service dogs are in a lot of buildings so I really think they need to be trained and exposed to inside as well.

[CFrance]

The dogs and the children in Europe always seemed better behaved than ours. Unfortunately, so very true and I really don't know why.

I don't know about the kids, but the dogs in Paris have grown up going everywhere with their owners--to bars, restaurants, and some shops, and parks. They've learned to be calm about this from puppyhood. They have also grown up off-leash for the most part,and are simply used to following their owners and not running out into the street. I did see one woman beat her dog with an umbrella (verrrrry disturbing) on a street in Paris, but that was an exception. And she seemed a bit "off."

Parisians spend a lot of time sitting and chatting, either in parks or cafes. Americans just aren't used to sitting still that long.The dogs are used to being with them, sitting for longer periods of time. They are not coddled as much as the dogs here in the US. They are treated more like dogs and less like babies/children. NOT advocating one way or the other for this.

We were invited to take our dog to the park in the middle of our street for the after-work social time. Since ours has always been on a leash around traffic, we were afraid to do it. Their dogs would stay put in the narrow park (between four very busy lanes of traffic). We just couldn't chance it.

As for the kids... the French schools are very strict. They learn early what is expected of them, and the parents are expected to teach the children to follow the rules. Our friend was actually afraid to go up against her son's school for certain things, like taking him out early for vacations or bringing him home late.

In Paris the kids are out navigating the streets and metro system from early on. they are pretty sophisticated. The ones we met seemed a bit more mature, age for age, vis-a-vis American children. Again, I'm NOT advocating for or against this. I'm simply stating what we observed while living there.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I would think the training of service dogs inside is important. Outside on the patio & inside are really different situations. Service dogs are in a lot of buildings so I really think they need to be trained and exposed to inside as well.

I agree

[manaboutown]

Last summer I went on a trip to Italy and France with a group of about 30 folks. One of the travelers was a 30ish quite overweight woman who was a heavy smoker. This woman had a beautiful small white poodle comfort dog with her "to keep her blood pressure down". She had a prescription from her physician which she showed whenever and wherever she needed to keep the dog with her, including getting into Versailles, restaurants, and her hotel rooms. Of course the French especially loved the poodle which was a wonderful little dog in every way possible, affectionate, well behaved, clean and quiet. On the other hand the woman was a totally narcissistic #@@#. Of course I wondered why the doctor prescribed her a comfort dog rather than get her to lose weight and quit smoking but the dog was a delight. Probably because, as we all observed, the young woman had not the self control to stop stuffing her face with high calorie food and/or stop smoking, both at every opportunity.

[Bonny]

Last summer I went on a trip to Italy and France with a group of about 30 folks. One of the travelers was a 30ish quite overweight woman who was a heavy smoker. This woman had a beautiful small white poodle comfort dog with her "to keep her blood pressure down". She had a prescription from her physician which she showed whenever and wherever she needed to keep the dog with her, including getting into Versailles, restaurants, and her hotel rooms. Of course the French especially loved the poodle which was a wonderful little dog in every way possible, affectionate, well behaved, clean and quiet. On the other hand the woman was a totally narcissistic #@@#. Of course I wondered why the doctor prescribed her a comfort dog rather than get her to lose weight and quit smoking but the dog was a delight. Probably because, as we all observed, the young woman had not the self control to stop stuffing her face with high calorie food at every opportunity and/or stop smoking.

OUCH !!! That was pretty rude and self righteous. IMO.

[skyguy79]

They were three different breeds and were not vey responsive to their owners commands. I believe service trained dogs are very responsive to owners commands.

I would think the training of service dogs inside is important. Outside on the patio & inside are really different situations. Service dogs are in a lot of buildings so I really think they need to be trained and exposed to inside as well.Possibly Bonnie, but you would also think that the dogs would be at least trained in basic commands before entering them into a critical situation like they were, and not be unresponsive like mention in Cobh's above post. I'd bet 10-1 that when the person from the restaurant stated that they had papers, they were looking at an ESA (Emotional Support Animals) paper and not an ADA document. And with an ESA document they are not necessarily protected by the ADA. The following website supports this.

Emotional Support Animals (ESA), Therapy Dogs & Rights : Service Dogs of Florida, Inc. (http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=22)[/QUOTE]

[justjim]

Comfort Dog or Service Dog----if I was "uncomfortable"----I would just politely leave following a polite conversation with the manager letting him/her know that I was uncomfortable with the situation and was leaving.. Life is too short to eat dinner feeling "uncomfortable". After reading this entire Thread, the "envelope" was definitely pushed by these ladies and the three dogs. :ohdear:

[skyguy79]

OUCH !!! That was pretty rude and self righteous. IMO.IYO is spot on! :clap2: I know as my life has been negatively affected since childhood by these kinds of statements (both directed at me and incidentally) as well as numerous times here on TOTV through insensitive, hurtful and downright mean statements similar to those just made and even worse!.

[Bonny]

Possibly Bonnie, but you would also think that the dogs would be at least trained in basic commands before entering them into a critical situation like they were, and not be unresponsive like mention in Cobh's above post. I'd bet 10-1 that when the person from the restaurant stated that they had papers, they were looking at an ESA (Emotional Support Animals) paper and not an ADA document. And with an ESA document they are not necessarily protected by the ADA. The following website supports this.

Emotional Support Animals (ESA), Therapy Dogs & Rights : Service Dogs of Florida, Inc. (http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=22)[/QUOTE]

I was just responding in general to a post. Of course I would hope that the dogs were good at responding to the trainers or whoever had them there.

[Barefoot]

There is no need to have three big dogs inside a restaurant.


There's no question that they were service dogs. There's just no reason to take them all into a busy restaurant at the same time.

At this point, it is all pure speculation! But we're good at speculation on TOTV!

Perhaps the ladies all had a similar disability which bonded them, and they were having a lunch out with their service dogs. Or perhaps they were all in the Guide Dog Training and Fostering Program, and they met to teach the dogs how to behave in restaurants. I have a great deal of respect for people who train and foster Disability Dogs. It's a hard thing to do.

[skyguy79]

I was just responding in general to a post. Of course I would hope that the dogs were good at responding to the trainers or whoever had them there.Don't worry Bonnie. We're on the same page!

[duffysmom]

A bigger problem are the birds that swoop in and flutter over one's food and crap willy nilly. Perhaps restaurants can offer Haz Mat suits to those who dislike our feather friends.:ohdear:

Personally I would rather sit in a restaurant with a dog at the next table than have the couple at the next table coughing, sneezing and talking loudly on their cell phones. Another senario are children acting up and parents shouting at them to behave. I've experienced both and I choose to dine with the dog. When I lived in South Florida dogs were welcomed on terraces and given their own bowl of ice water how outrageous is that.

[skyguy79]

A bigger problem are the birds that swoop in and flutter over one's food and crap willy nilly. Perhaps restaurants can offer Haz Mat suits to those who dislike our feather friends.:ohdear:

Personally I would rather sit in a restaurant with a dog at the next table than have the couple at the next table coughing, sneezing and talking loudly on their cell phones. Another senario is children acting up and parents shouting at them to behave. I've experienced both and I choose to dine with the dog. When I lived in South Florida dogs were welcomed on terraces and given their own bowl of ice water how outrageous is that.Can't disagree with you at all DM, but I do have to comment that I hope this post doesn't spawn a new thread about... "Bird Poop!" :eek:

[gomoho]

I agree - I would take the dogs over the screaming, unruly kids any day; however, the bird poop I would have to think about a while.

[CFrance]

Those birds should be on leashes!!

[CFrance]

Comfort dogs don't comfort some people. If a person is not inclined toward dogs then they will not be comfortable with a dog in a restaurant and at a hotel. We made reservation for a weekend at a hotel recommended by our hosts for a celebration for some friends. I was not a happy camper when people started showing up with their dogs when checking in. so the next time I make reservations for an overnight that is the first question I am asking them So three large dogs inside a restaurant would drive me out. It would have been more considerate had these three women remained on the outside patio with their darlings.

And I suppose people in wheelchairs should also be more considerate and not eat in restaurants lest their wheelchairs block the way of some customers. This is the reason for the ADA laws to begin with--people were according those with disabilities second-class status, refusing them access with all of their support services. If these dogs were service dogs, and I'm going to assume they were because the manager told Barefoot they were, they had as much right to be there as anyone else in that restaurant. If they were in training, they still had that right, and also a need to be experiencing inside venues.

As you would not frequent again the hotel that takes dogs, so you could walk out of a restaurant and eat somewhere else. The dogs had the right to be in that hotel and in that restaurant. You have the right to go elsewhere. Nobody's doing the wrong thing in these two situations.

[NotGolfer]

Funny that this post came up tonight. We just had dinner at Fiesta Grande at Colony and we sat next to a lab with a service vest. The handlers had no visible disability but that doesn't mean they did not have one. Another poster mentioned that you may NOT ask questions to the nature of a service dog and that is correct. I also know that anyone may buy a service vest for their dog. The dog at our restaurant was well behaved and unobtrusive.

The handlers may have been training this dog! They're to take them everywhere to help the dog learn in most, all situations!

[KeepingItReal]

Next time I will ask the manager. These dogs did not have service dog gear on. They specifically had "comfort/therapy" vests on. From everything that I read on this, the dogs should not have been inside. Also, no hand cleansers offered or mentioned.

It is clear comfort and therapy dogs are not allowed inside or outside at restaurants. The City Fire manager either did not know the difference, really didn't care, or was willing to accept anything to justify letting them in rather than having to tell them no and take the heat even though it is the law and for good reason.

[perrjojo]

The handlers may have been training this dog! They're to take them everywhere to help the dog learn in most, all situations!

I don't think the dog was in training as their "vest" usually states this and he was quite old, however it really dosen't matter as the dog was unobtrusive, well behaved and I had NO problem with him being there. My dog lays by our table when we eat, so I see no difference. I guess some people just don't like dogs or then again some people seem disturbed by anything out of the ordinary. Who knows?

[gomoho]

I don't think the dog was in training as their "vest" usually states this and he was quite old, however it really dosen't matter as the dog was unobtrusive, well behaved and I had NO problem with him being there. My dog lays by our table when we eat, so I see no difference. I guess some people just don't like dogs or then again some people seem disturbed by anything out of the ordinary. Who knows?

Am I crazy or did you just contradict your original post???:shocked:

[tommy steam]

The dogs and the children in Europe always seemed better behaved than ours.

I asked a cabbie why that was so, in Paris.

He answered in perfect French. "We beat them.". ;)

Lol :1rotfl:

[bluedog103]

Am I crazy or did you just contradict your original post???:shocked:

Perrjojo has been consistent throughout this thread. Maybe crazy is extreme. Perhaps you're having a senior moment.:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[gustavo]

It's pretty much impossible to visually determine if a dog is a service dog. Tags are not required nor is documentation. The establishment is even prohibited from asking the nature of the disability of the owner of the service dog. The ADA is very specific about this.

Absolutely true, basically if the dog is well behaved, the establishment cannot question the type of service therefore it will be with you for your dinner.

[jblum315]

I think if I saw large dogs in a restaurant I would just quickly walk out. I have never seen a dog larger than a Yorkie inside a restaurant.

[Monkei]

I have a friend who has "money". He recently took his Sheltie to Las Vegas and had him certified as a "service dog". It was merely a money transaction, the dog is in no way a service dog but know they are able to take the dog anywhere, slap his vest on and carry the certification papers wans walla. Flights, malls, dinners, etc.

[jblum315]

Makes me wonder how many"service" dogs are fakes LOL

[buggyone]

I have a friend who has "money". He recently took his Sheltie to Las Vegas and had him certified as a "service dog". It was merely a money transaction, the dog is in no way a service dog but know they are able to take the dog anywhere, slap his vest on and carry the certification papers wans walla. Flights, malls, dinners, etc.

I just returned from a 14 day Caribbean cruise on Celebrity. There was one older lady who had a Maltese dog with her on the cruise. She had it on a leash and would walk throughout the ship. When we disembarked the ship, I saw that she had the dog in a stroller. That was the first time I have seen a dog on a cruise ship. No, the dog did not have any "service dog" vest; no, I do not know if the dog came into the dining rooms; no, I do not know where the dog went to the bathroom; no, it did not bother me at all.

[Happinow]

There are plenty of "crowds" and "public situations" at the three town squares every night with loud music booming, and on the patios of the bar-restaurants surrounding each of the squares as City Fire has in both locations.

There is no need to have three big dogs inside a restaurant here, to accustom them to being in public, crowded or noisy/busy foot traffic situations here!!

Agree...a restaurant, indoors or outdoors should never be allowed to have pets unless it is a service dog....not a comfort dog. There are enough outdoor venues like ilovetv said to acclimate the dogs to these type surroundings. I would have gotten up and left the restaurant and asked to speak to the manager for clarification on why the dogs were there.

[justjim]

I have a friend who has "money". He recently took his Sheltie to Las Vegas and had him certified as a "service dog". It was merely a money transaction, the dog is in no way a service dog but know they are able to take the dog anywhere, slap his vest on and carry the certification papers wans walla. Flights, malls, dinners, etc.

And we all complain how folks on Various Government programs beat the system. People do somewhat the same with handicap placards. However, what goes around also usually comes around. :throwtomatoes:

[Bonny]

I just returned from a 14 day Caribbean cruise on Celebrity. There was one older lady who had a Maltese dog with her on the cruise. She had it on a leash and would walk throughout the ship. When we disembarked the ship, I saw that she had the dog in a stroller. That was the first time I have seen a dog on a cruise ship. No, the dog did not have any "service dog" vest; no, I do not know if the dog came into the dining rooms; no, I do not know where the dog went to the bathroom; no, it did not bother me at all.

We have been on 49 cruises. We have seen service dogs many times. We just came off the Independence Of The Seas. There was a woman who had a beautiful golden retriever service dog.

[perrjojo]

Am I crazy or did you just contradict your original post???:shocked:

I guess you are crazy. Just kidding. I did not start this thread. The dog I saw was at Fiesta Grande, not City Fire as the OP stated.

[Mr. Grampi II]

I have a brother with multiple sclerosis and he has a service dog that he received from an accredited agency- "Paws with a Cause" in Michigan, her name is Cookie . She was trained to help my brother remove his coat. There are pull straps in my brothers home and Cookie open doors, pick up the phone, opens the dryer and takes out clothes and drops them in the laundry basket. When my brother is alone and falls, she is trained to crawl under him and help him up. Without her, he can not maintain the basics functions of life and more importantly keep his dignity.

Cookie is like any other black lab, she is rambunctious and the "life of the party" until she puts on her service vest and then goes to work. It is like kryptonite to her normal personality, she is at attention, almost like a soldier. When she is in "work" mode there is no way you would see her as a regular dog. She goes into restaurants she is pretty much invisible and better behaved than some adults and children.

There is a big easily, recognizable difference between accredited service dogs and self styled, self appointed "comfort dogs", the Yorkie on someones lap because it is comforting to them.

You do not need "money" to accredit a regular dog as a service dog, the internet is full of places that will sell you a vest , tags, paperwork etc.

Here is were I get flamed.... I do not think the self styled comfort dogs belongs inside restaurants, bars, stores, etc.

To me this is no different than the able bodied person driving grandmothers car to the store and parking in a handicapped spot because grandmother (who is not in the car) has a handicapped tag. The real handicapped person that comes along may be denied a parking spot.

I love, love, love to play golf and I find some comfort holding a golf club in my hand. I do not bring it to bed at night.

I think we need a way to identify and weed out those folks trying to beat the system with self styled comfort dogs. We need to reserve these privileges for those the ADA intended them for and truly in need.

BTW: We have dogs and cats and love animals and spend lot of money to take care of them.

Let the flames begin.....

[justjim]

I have a brother with multiple sclerosis and he has a service dog that he received from an accredited agency- "Paws with a Cause" in Michigan, her name is Cookie . She was trained to help my brother remove his coat. There are pull straps in my brothers home and Cookie open doors, pick up the phone, opens the dryer and takes out clothes and drops them in the laundry basket. When my brother is alone and falls, she is trained to crawl under him and help him up. Without her, he can not maintain the basics functions of life and more importantly keep his dignity.

Cookie is like any other black lab, she is rambunctious and the "life of the party" until she puts on her service vest and then goes to work. It is like kryptonite to her normal personality, she is at attention, almost like a soldier. When she is in "work" mode there is no way you would see her as a regular dog. She goes into restaurants she is pretty much invisible and better behaved than some adults and children.

There is a big easily, recognizable difference between accredited service dogs and self styled, self appointed "comfort dogs", the Yorkie on someones lap because it is comforting to them.

You do not need "money" to accredit a regular dog as a service dog, the internet is full of places that will sell you a vest , tags, paperwork etc.

Here is were I get flamed.... I do not think the self styled comfort dogs belongs inside restaurants, bars, stores, etc.

To me this is no different than the able bodied person driving grandmothers car to the store and parking in a handicapped spot because grandmother (who is not in the car) has a handicapped tag. The real handicapped person that comes along may be denied a parking spot.

I love, love, love to play golf and I find some comfort holding a golf club in my hand. I do not bring it to bed at night.

I think we need a way to identify and weed out those folks trying to beat the system with self styled comfort dogs. We need to reserve these privileges for those the ADA intended them for and truly in need.

BTW: We have dogs and cats and love animals and spend lot of money to take care of them.

Let the flames begin.....

You have made some good points! :ho:

[CFrance]

I don't think you'll get flamed, Mr. Grampi II. You've made very good points. It would be interesting to know what those dogs' actual identities were--service dogs or comfort dogs. I for one wouldn't take a comfort dog into a restaurant simply because they are not as well trained as a service dog like your brother has. I know and have contributed to Paws For a Cause in MI and have a neighbor in Muskegon who uses one. I am familiar with their level of training. Not every dog makes the cut.

As for another poster stating that there are plenty of public places in the squares to train a service dog without taking him into a restaurant, that simply isn't true. In order to train the dog how to behave in a restaurant, it needs to go into a restaurant. If your brother's dog hadn't had indoor training in a restaurant, your brother might not be able to go to a restaurant.

Part of the reason for the ADA law is to protect the disabled from people who don't care to see these animals in places where dogs are not normally allowed.

However, I suspect these were not service dogs, and the women pulled one over on City Fire. It's too bad a few bad apples...

[blueash]

I have a friend who has "money". He recently took his Sheltie to Las Vegas and had him certified as a "service dog". It was merely a money transaction, the dog is in no way a service dog but now they are able to take the dog anywhere, slap his vest on and carry the certification papers wans walla. Flights, malls, dinners, etc.

And this fake certification would seem to make the dog a tax deduction

Guide Dog or Other Service Animal�
You can include in medical expenses the costs of buying, training, and maintaining a guide dog or other service animal to assist a visually impaired or hearing-impaired person, or a person with other physical disabilities. This includes any costs, such as food, grooming, and veterinary care, incurred in maintaining the health and vitality of the service animal so that it may perform its duties.

Maybe they even deducted the cost of the trip to Las Vegas as part of the expense of buying, training, and maintaining. A quick Google search for service dog certification in Las Vegas landed me on a site for LV Service Dogs offering "the premier provider in Las Vegas, NV of service dog certification, service dog certificate, assistance dog certification, assistance dog certificate" and you've got to love their website (not working) bringyourdoganywhere.com. Sure sounds like their business model fits the poster's allegation. And an online discussion of this crooked business is at Licking the tears of a disabled nation | ohmidog! (http://www.ohmidog.com/2008/10/22/licking-the-tears-of-a-disabled-nation-2/#more-2385)

[CFrance]

Makes me wonder how many"service" dogs are fakes LOL

Well, if you see a golden retriever in a service vest wagging its tail ferociously and parking its head on its owner's lap or greeting everyone who walks by inside a restaurant, it's a pretty good bet it's a fake!!

[ilovetv]

I still think that as the o.p. said there were three big dogs that blocked the walkway as they waited and the servers could not get near the table, this is a bunch of crap to assume that they were true service dogs. And as some say maybe they were "in training".....well, there is no need to have three big ones together inside.

This sounds like people who simply want to do whatever they damn well please.

If you read the FL Business and Professional licensing website on dogs indoors at restaurants, it says they are not allowed unless a local ordinance is in place for that, and with the restrictions (like hand sanitizer gel on every table) that a previous poster quoted.

[capecodbob]

Things that make you go..Hmmmmm. We didn't see ANY of that at Crispers. Maybe they need to be sent this link. Definitely not the hand sanitizer on the tables or can't recall signs. What we really didn't care for though is the smoking. I thought smoking was not allowed in any establishment whether indoors or on a patio. Thought they had to be so far from the general public areas. Could be wrong though for this state. Was just surprised and did not make a big deal of it. Just got up and left and asked the question. When we got an answer, we now know and won't eat in the outdoor area.

They smoke in the outside area at Cody's in LSL. I don't make big deal of it, I just look for a restaurant that doesn't allow the smoking outside and patronize them.

[gomoho]

I guess you are crazy. Just kidding. I did not start this thread. The dog I saw was at Fiesta Grande, not City Fire as the OP stated.

So sorry perrjojo - crazy is as crazy does.

[simpkinp]

They smoke in the outside area at Cody's in LSL. I don't make big deal of it, I just look for a restaurant that doesn't allow the smoking outside and patronize them.

What restaurants don't allow smoking outside, other than Evans Prarie and Bonifay? I love to go to City Fire and Red Sauce, but the smoke is overwhelming at times. I would appreciate the info. thanks!

[manaboutown]

What restaurants don't allow smoking outside, other than Evans Prarie and Bonifay? I love to go to City Fire and Red Sauce, but the smoke is overwhelming at times. I would appreciate the info. thanks!

Those (the no smoking allowed) would be the ones I would patronize!

[travelguy]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

[gomoho]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

Why would you move to an openly dog friendly community if you don't want to be around dogs??? It's no secret here. If a community has dog parks (as sorry as they maybe) you can probably figure there are a lot of dogs here.

[bluedog103]

I have a brother with multiple sclerosis and he has a service dog that he received from an accredited agency- "Paws with a Cause" in Michigan, her name is Cookie . She was trained to help my brother remove his coat. There are pull straps in my brothers home and Cookie open doors, pick up the phone, opens the dryer and takes out clothes and drops them in the laundry basket. When my brother is alone and falls, she is trained to crawl under him and help him up. Without her, he can not maintain the basics functions of life and more importantly keep his dignity.

Cookie is like any other black lab, she is rambunctious and the "life of the party" until she puts on her service vest and then goes to work. It is like kryptonite to her normal personality, she is at attention, almost like a soldier. When she is in "work" mode there is no way you would see her as a regular dog. She goes into restaurants she is pretty much invisible and better behaved than some adults and children.

There is a big easily, recognizable difference between accredited service dogs and self styled, self appointed "comfort dogs", the Yorkie on someones lap because it is comforting to them

What would a service dog assisting a veteran suffering from PTSD look like?

[CFrance]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

And I am tired of people crabbing about not wanting dogs in places where the law allows them to be. And I'm also tired of them accusing the majority of dog owners of not picking up after their pets, when this is absolutely not true in TV.

I will take my dog wherever he is legally allowed, if I deem it appropriate for my dog, safe for my dog , and a place my dog will enjoy. I will never take him anywhere he isn't allowed, ever. If a person doesn't like to have dogs around him, he should frequent places where dogs are not allowed. Or else work to change the laws.

I don't mind at all following the laws. But I reserve the right to engage in activities that the laws allow for my dog if I choose.

Work to change or stay away.

[gerryann]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

Your post created what you wanted. You love stirring the pot. So....do you dislike old people too?

[Patty55]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

Um, I think your picker was off when you chose to live here.

[old moe]

Your post created what you wanted. You love stirring the pot. So....do you dislike old people too?

:shocked::shocked: Amen to this post. If someone dislikes dogs, there are PLENTY of retirement areas to live where they don't allow PETS, Ckeck one out.:ho::ho:

[notlongnow]

Not sure why this is such an issue in the US. If you go to Europe, you will have dogs in dining establishments all the time.

Different cultures, I guess ????



True! I spent 6 years in Germany and found that the locals would leave the kids at home and take the dog with them to the restaurant. I MUCH preferred that! I'd rather have dinner next to a quiet, well behaved dog than a toddler.

These are the two post that stand out to me.

I would like to know how many people in TV have cats walking on there counter or tables or dogs laying in the floor in the kitchen while they cook and eat.
I have a dog that lives WITH us as ONE OF US.
It really is not that big of a deal.
Someone always has something that bothers them and I don't see this as an epidemic.


I think it is really crystallized in TV.

EB

[Uncle Tom]

I do not dislike dogs. In fact I had a dog for the past 18 years that recently passed. I was in City Fire in Brownwood and three women had three very very large dogs with them. They insisted that they needed to eat inside. The waiter could not get near the table since the dogs were sitting there. These dogs had comfort tags on them but I do not believe this is the same as a service dog. While these women were waiting for a seat they had the whole entrance blocked by the dogs. I do not feel that these large dogs, who could eat off the tables standing ip, should be in a dining establishment. I am also allergic to these breeds. (I had a toy poodle). I would like some opinions on this matter as I felt if I complained I would be causing a ruckus of ADA

I was married to an optician, she would not allow her lab to be put in the dog area on a plane, so she went on the internet and got a service dog vest. She was an optician so got thick lenses that would reverse her vision to normal, but looking at her you would think she was blind. She was not, just wanted to get her dog up in business class on the plane. You are starting to see a lot of people with service dogs . But you cant go up them and say are you really blind, etc... There are a few people out there getting carried away with this issue, I dont have to worry anymore. I divorced her, now she is still flying first class somewhere with her (service dog).

[perrjojo]

I was married to an optician, she would not allow her lab to be put in the dog area on a plane, so she went on the internet and got a service dog vest. She was an optician so got thick lenses that would reverse her vision to normal, but looking at her you would think she was blind. She was not, just wanted to get her dog up in business class on the plane. You are starting to see a lot of people with service dogs . But you cant go up them and say are you really blind, etc... There are a few people out there getting carried away with this issue, I dont have to worry anymore. I divorced her, now she is still flying first class somewhere with her (service dog).

I love this post. We travel a lot and we bring our dog. He is small enough that he can be put in a carrier under the seat and most of the time no one even knows he is there. Yes, you do pay a fee if this is not a service dog and they cannot be accommodated if they weigh over 20 pounds. I decided I wanted the freedom to take him anywhere when we traveled so I went online, bought a service vest and the cards you present if anyone challenges you. Seemed like a good idea at the time. The first time I took him out in his service vest I felt like a total Schmuck! That was 9 years ago and he has never worn that vest since. I can't imagine a person who "cheats the system" like this. I just couldn't do it. You are lucky that this deceitful person is your X. :mademyday:

[capecodbob]

Why would you move to an openly dog friendly community if you don't want to be around dogs??? It's no secret here. If a community has dog parks (as sorry as they maybe) you can probably figure there are a lot of dogs here.

I think you're missing the point. Most of us love animals but we're getting annoyed with irresponsible animal owners.
Letting your animal relieve themselves in a public area like Spanish Springs, is totally inconsiderate of others and of the health of the rest of us. If you own an animal then you have certain responsibilities that go with that ownership. Unfortunately we are seeing more and more of those that are not being responsible, and as an animal owner, I don't appreciate that!

[gerryann]

I think you're missing the point. Most of us love animals but we're getting annoyed with irresponsible animal owners.
Letting your animal relieve themselves in a public area like Spanish Springs, is totally inconsiderate of others and of the health of the rest of us. If you own an animal then you have certain responsibilities that go with that ownership. Unfortunately we are seeing more and more of those that are not being responsible, and as an animal owner, I don't appreciate that!

No, I think you may be missing the point. The person in question regarding negative posts about dogs has made it very clear his feelings about dogs. What he and maybe you are missing is that it is a very small percentage of folks who let their dogs relieve themselves where they should not. The majority of dog owners in TV are very responsible. There are always those few that don't think the rules apply to them. Don't blame all pet owners.

[Barefoot]

I am tired of people crabbing about not wanting dogs in places where the law allows them to be. And I'm also tired of them accusing the majority of dog owners of not picking up after their pets, when this is absolutely not true in TV.

I will take my dog wherever he is legally allowed, if I deem it appropriate for my dog, safe for my dog , and a place my dog will enjoy. I will never take him anywhere he isn't allowed, ever. If a person doesn't like to have dogs around him, he should frequent places where dogs are not allowed. Or else work to change the laws.

I don't mind at all following the laws. But I reserve the right to engage in activities that the laws allow for my dog if I choose. Work to change or stay away.

If buyers don't like seeing pets in public places in TV where they are permitted, why do they choose to live in a pet friendly community where two dogs per household are allowed? Why do people complain when people take their pets to the Town Squares where they are permitted? Why do people complain about dogs on restaurant patios when they are permitted to be there?

Most people in TV love animals. If they have pets, they clean up after them and are respectful of others property.

It's like moving to The Villages and complaining that there are too many golf courses.

[blueash]

The responsive official from the Sumter (no p) County Government answered my email asking if any restaurants had permits for non-service dogs to be allowed in the outdoor dining areas. Only Cody's in LSL has such a permit. Here is his email:

Presently, Cody�s Road House in Lake Sumter Landings in The Villages is the only restaurant in Sumter County permitted under Section 13-735 of the Land Development Code. If you have observed dogs being allowed into outdoor dining areas in unpermitted restaurants, please advise me and I will contact the restaurant to advise them of the permit requirements. If you have visited Cody�s Road House and believe they are not complying with the requirements of their permit, please also let me know and I will assign an inspector to review their compliance.

If you have any additional questions, please contact me.
Karl E. Holley, AICP
Director of Development Services
Sumter County Board of Commissioners
7375 Powell Road
Wildwood, Florida 34785
(352) 689-4463
Sumter County, FL - Official Website (http://www.sumtercountyfl.gov)


So for those who are unhappy with dogs, or possible lack of compliance with all the sanitary rules, you have your contact information.

[Patty55]

Cody's is now my new favorite place, even if I don't have dogs with me.

[Barefoot]

Thanks for letting us know that the deck at Codys is pet friendly. :thumbup:

[tommy steam]

Hot button issue!

[The Great Fumar]

These are the two post that stand out to me.

I would like to know how many people in TV have cats walking on there counter or tables or dogs laying in the floor in the kitchen while they cook and eat.
I have a dog that lives WITH us as ONE OF US.
It really is not that big of a deal.
Someone always has something that bothers them and I don't see this as an epidemic.


I think it is really crystallized in TV.

EB

Enjoy your worm !!!!!!

Fumar,......:thumbup:

[ilovetv]

I would like to see a list of restaurants in St. Louis, Tampa, Jacksonville, Gainesville, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Sacramento, Seattle, Phoenix, Kansas City, Omaha, Dallas, Chicago, Napierville, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Hilton Head SC.......ANYWHERE....

.....where dog owners on this board who are pooh-poohing this situation would insist on taking dogs that are not true service dogs.

Just because you're in The Villages does not mean you can suddenly ignore norms of decency and respect for other people. There are many people who do NOT like and do not allow animals in their house. There are also many who are deathly AFRAID of any dog, for good reason--like having been attacked and bitten!!!!

Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass, but the same people here have NO regard for people who are not accustomed to animals in a dining area next to them, and NO regard for those who are obviously traumatized by real experience with a dog attacking and/or biting them????

You sit here and pamper and empathize with a supposed person in need of a "comfort dog" because THEY have had some kind of problem with anxiety, but you care NOTHING for those who are AFRAID OF DOGS or do not pay to eat with animals next to them.

[Patty55]

I wonder how it works at places like Red Sauce where it's not a deck but an extension of the sidewalk?

How about Marion County? Lake County? Palm Beach County?

[The Great Fumar]

Thanks for letting us know that the deck at Codys is pet friendly. :thumbup:

Thanks for letting us know to scratch Codys off the list !!!!!

Has anyone a pen ????

penless Fumar

[gerryann]

Thanks for letting us know to scratch Codys off the list !!!!!

Has anyone a pen ????

penless Fumar

Have you ever dined on the deck outside at Cody's?

[CFrance]

"Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass, but the same people here have NO regard for people who are not accustomed to animals in a dining area next to them, and NO regard for those who are obviously traumatized by real experience with a dog attacking and/or biting them????"

Because it's the law! If you don't like it, work to change the law. But good luck. Disabled people have been discriminated against longer than people of color. They have rights that need to be upheld. If you are afraid of dogs and walk into a resto with a service dog, walk out.

[ilovetv]

"Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass, but the same people here have NO regard for people who are not accustomed to animals in a dining area next to them, and NO regard for those who are obviously traumatized by real experience with a dog attacking and/or biting them????"

Because it's the law! If you don't like it, work to change the law. But good luck. Disabled people have been discriminated against longer than people of color. They have rights that need to be upheld. If you are afraid of dogs and walk into a resto with a service dog, walk out.

This thread is not about true service dogs. It's about dogs about whom there is significant doubt about their valid service credentials.....as the original poster doubted the service credentials of the three dogs in City Fire-BW.

[Peggy D]

My wife's aunt had her doctor write up something to say her dog is a therapy dog. The only reason she did this is because the dog doesn't like to be left home alone.!!!! Three people all with the same affliction??? Give me a break...........I know someone with handicap plates because he drives his mother to Walmart once a week but parks in handicapped spots without her............really?? Unfortunately people are selfish and will try to skirt any rule that they don't feel they like. Others will bend over backwards just to see if they can. Can't go out to dinner without your dog???? Really??

Hitting the "like" button

Have a hard time understand why 3 people had the same problem and were together at City Fire. Maybe a new club!>!

[CFrance]

"Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass, but the same people here have NO regard for people who are not accustomed to animals in a dining area next to them, and NO regard for those who are obviously traumatized by real experience with a dog attacking and/or biting them????"

Because it's the law! If you don't like it, work to change the law. But good luck. Disabled people have been discriminated against longer than people of color. They have rights that need to be upheld. If you are afraid of dogs and walk into a resto with a service dog, walk out.

This thread is not about true service dogs. It's about dogs about whom there is significant doubt about their valid service credentials.....as the original poster doubted the service credentials of the three dogs in City Fire-BW.


I am responding ONLY to the comment" Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass" and not about anything else--not the OP's post or anything other than the comment about people with disability "getting a pass." The term "supposed disabled person" requires a response, in my opinion, as it is very pejorative in the context of the post.

[ilovetv]

I am responding ONLY to the comment" Why is it that the supposed disabled person gets all this empathy and a pass" and not about anything else--not the OP's post or anything other than the comment about people with disability "getting a pass." The term "supposed disabled person" requires a response, in my opinion, as it is very pejorative in the context of the post.

"Supposed" disabled person refers to the person using fake service dog credentials, or lying about the need for a "comfort dog" which isn't even allowed in restaurants even if it IS credentialed as a comfort dog.

There have been numerous accounts here of people who use fake credentials. "Supposed" is not "perjorative" when "faking" legality and lying about it to officials is the topic.

[CFrance]

"Supposed" disabled person refers to the person using fake service dog credentials, or lying about the need for a "comfort dog" which isn't even allowed in restaurants even if it IS credentialed as a comfort dog.

There have been numerous accounts here of people who use fake credentials. "Supposed" is not "perjorative" when "faking" legality and lying about it to officials is the topic.

I stand by my original understanding of your statement having to do with people with disabilities getting a pass, not with the comfort dogs in OP's post. But I'm outta here. This is getting personal. Last you'll hear from me.

[Patty55]

This thread is not about true service dogs. It's about dogs about whom there is significant doubt about their valid service credentials.....as the original poster doubted the service credentials of the three dogs in City Fire-BW.


We don't know that. Let's remember that the employee said they were.

Throughout this thread I have repeatedly seen the terms "Service Dogs", "Comfort Dogs" and "Therapy Dogs" used interchangeably. They are not the same. My dogs "worked" as therapy dogs at a nursing home, it did not afford them the same rights as a Service Dog.

When Service Dogs are being trained they are given paperwork from the organization stating who is training and the organization involved. In an effort to get them exposed to everything they encourage restaurants, stores and the general public to accept these animals on the premises, but cannot demand compliance.

AFAIK, there are at least 12 service dogs being trained in TV, some will go to the blind, Wounded Warriers and some will go back into breeding.

Maybe, the next time you see this sort of thing instead of just assuming the worst, and basing that opinion on NOTHING, take a minute and think about how much the trainers/handlers put into this. Think about the people who need these animals and finally think about how these animals give their entire life to helping others.

[CFrance]

Thanks, Patty, for a good thought and explanation.

[CFrance]

We don't know that. Let's remember that the employee said they were.

Throughout this thread I have repeatedly seen the terms "Service Dogs", "Comfort Dogs" and "Therapy Dogs" used interchangeably. They are not the same. My dogs "worked" as therapy dogs at a nursing home, it did not afford them the same rights as a Service Dog.

When Service Dogs are being trained they are given paperwork from the organization stating who is training and the organization involved. In an effort to get them exposed to everything they encourage restaurants, stores and the general public to accept these animals on the premises, but cannot demand compliance.

AFAIK, there are at least 12 service dogs being trained in TV, some will go to the blind, Wounded Warriers and some will go back into breeding.

Maybe, the next time you see this sort of thing instead of just assuming the worst, and basing that opinion on NOTHING, take a, minute and think about how much the trainers/handlers put into this. Think about the people who need these animals and finally think about how these animals give their entire life to helping others.

Amen, Patty:bigbow:

[BobnBev]

"Supposed" disabled person refers to the person using fake service dog credentials, or lying about the need for a "comfort dog" which isn't even allowed in restaurants even if it IS credentialed as a comfort dog.

There have been numerous accounts here of people who use fake credentials. "Supposed" is not "perjorative" when "faking" legality and lying about it to officials is the topic.

Whats perjorative mean, anyways?

[jblum315]

"perjorative" means slanderous

[graciegirl]

Thanks for letting us know to scratch Codys off the list !!!!!

Has anyone a pen ????

penless Fumar

You haven't posted too much lately Fumar.

Many new people might believe you are serious instead of extremely witty as us oldies know you are.

This is a very, very, delicate and very volatile thread.

And even if you did mean it, which you have a right to do, I know that you are a great wit and often pull our legs.

Deep breaths everyone. There is too much awful stuff without adding this issue to it.

[gomoho]

:blahblahblah:Is this really that important???

[bluedog103]

We don't know that. Let's remember that the employee said they were.

Throughout this thread I have repeatedly seen the terms "Service Dogs", "Comfort Dogs" and "Therapy Dogs" used interchangeably. They are not the same. My dogs "worked" as therapy dogs at a nursing home, it did not afford them the same rights as a Service Dog.

When Service Dogs are being trained they are given paperwork from the organization stating who is training and the organization involved. In an effort to get them exposed to everything they encourage restaurants, stores and the general public to accept these animals on the premises, but cannot demand compliance.

AFAIK, there are at least 12 service dogs being trained in TV, some will go to the blind, Wounded Warriers and some will go back into breeding.

Maybe, the next time you see this sort of thing instead of just assuming the worst, and basing that opinion on NOTHING, take a minute and think about how much the trainers/handlers put into this. Think about the people who need these animals and finally think about how these animals give their entire life to helping others.

Excellent post Patty. Thanks.

[Irish Rover]

It sounds like you have a predisposition on the dog situation. If the restaurant allowed them in and you didn't like their decision - DON'T GO BACK. Whining on this site is as bad as politics used to be. Just my humble opinion.:)

[JoeC1947]

And I am tired of people crabbing about not wanting dogs in places where the law allows them to be. And I'm also tired of them accusing the majority of dog owners of not picking up after their pets, when this is absolutely not true in TV.

I will take my dog wherever he is legally allowed, if I deem it appropriate for my dog, safe for my dog , and a place my dog will enjoy. I will never take him anywhere he isn't allowed, ever. If a person doesn't like to have dogs around him, he should frequent places where dogs are not allowed. Or else work to change the laws.

I don't mind at all following the laws. But I reserve the right to engage in activities that the laws allow for my dog if I choose.

Work to change or stay away.

I think what I would take from this is some people feel they can do as they wish as long as the rules are followed without consideration to others. I remember a thread about cigar smoking on the golf course. Many were upset
and thought that you should not lite up if it offends or bothers anyone. I smoke cigars but I wouldn't if it bothered someone even though I'm allowed too. It's the same with dogs. Some are allergic to dog hair. I was at Cody's a week or two ago and sat outside. I didn't know pets were allowed and a couple came in each holding a small dog on their lap while sitting at a table. It was bad enough with the birds walking on the tables to get the peanuts and now I saw a dog with his paws on the table too. I won't go back to Cody's. The outside eating area has gone to the dogs.

[CFrance]

I think what I would take from this is some people feel they can do as they wish as long as the rules are followed without consideration to others. I remember a thread about cigar smoking on the golf course. Many were upset
and thought that you should not lite up if it offends or bothers anyone. I smoke cigars but I wouldn't if it bothered someone even though I'm allowed too. It's the same with dogs. Some are allergic to dog hair. I was at Cody's a week or two ago and sat outside. I didn't know pets were allowed and a couple came in each holding a small dog on their lap while sitting at a table. It was bad enough with the birds walking on the tables to get the peanuts and now I saw a dog with his paws on the table too. I won't go back to Cody's. The outside eating area has gone to the dogs.

I'm going over to the three-, four-, and five-word sentences threads and play with the nice people there.:doggie:

[Barefoot]

:blahblahblah:Is this really that important???

Who could have guessed that service dogs at City Fire would generate 140 posts? :ohdear:

[gomoho]

Hold onto your hats - dog sighting on the patio at Red Sauce!!!

[Barefoot]

Hold onto your hats - dog sighting on the patio at Red Sauce!!!

Did you ask to see their documentation? :laugh:

[Patty55]

I think what I would take from this is some people feel they can do as they wish as long as the rules are followed without consideration to others. I remember a thread about cigar smoking on the golf course. Many were upset
and thought that you should not lite up if it offends or bothers anyone. I smoke cigars but I wouldn't if it bothered someone even though I'm allowed too. It's the same with dogs. Some are allergic to dog hair. I was at Cody's a week or two ago and sat outside. I didn't know pets were allowed and a couple came in each holding a small dog on their lap while sitting at a table. It was bad enough with the birds walking on the tables to get the peanuts and now I saw a dog with his paws on the table too. I won't go back to Cody's. The outside eating area has gone to the dogs.

Yep, kind of sums up my feelings. I do feel that I can do as I wish as long as I follow the rules. Prior to living here I made more of an effort to being considerate, now... NOT SO MUCH.

I find it impossible to be considerate of others because everyone has a complaint about something. Dogs outside? Smoking in the outside smoking section? Birds eating peanuts?

I've got a handful of things that I find offensive... I can't tolerate loud, crude and common people. I'm also bothered by stupid people. Do I wander the town square with an IQ Test (usually don't have to, it's apparent), no, I just remove myself from the situation.

Let's try to keep our eyes on the big picture, kiddies. We're living in a beautiful community with generally law-abiding people. The dogs here are well-bred, well groomed, on a leash. They are not a pack of renegade mutts tearing through the community (can't say the same for the children).

If you all feel so strongly about this issue, change the rules, but be careful. Remember that in life when you make a choice you must accept the consequences.

[Patty55]

Did you ask to see their documentation? :laugh:

I always carry my AKC papers, you never know when you'll need to show them.

[Barefoot]

It was bad enough with the birds walking on the tables to get the peanuts.

....

[perrjojo]

Yep, kind of sums up my feelings. I do feel that I can do as I wish as long as I follow the rules. Prior to living here I made more of an effort to being considerate, now... NOT SO MUCH.

I find it impossible to be considerate of others because everyone has a complaint about something. Dogs outside? Smoking in the outside smoking section? Birds eating peanuts?

I've got a handful of things that I find offensive... I can't tolerate loud, crude and common people. I'm also bothered by stupid people. Do I wander the town square with an IQ Test (usually don't have to, it's apparent), no, I just remove myself from the situation.

Let's try to keep our eyes on the big picture, kiddies. We're living in a beautiful community with generally law-abiding people. The dogs here are well-bred, well groomed, on a leash. They are not a pack of renegade mutts tearing through the community (can't say the same for the children).

If you all feel so strongly about this issue, change the rules, but be careful. Remember that in life when you make a choice you must accept the consequences.

:bigbow:

Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved.
P.S. I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:boxing2:

[eremite06]

Yep, kind of sums up my feelings. I do feel that I can do as I wish as long as I follow the rules. Prior to living here I made more of an effort to being considerate, now... NOT SO MUCH.

I find it impossible to be considerate of others because everyone has a complaint about something. Dogs outside? Smoking in the outside smoking section? Birds eating peanuts?

I've got a handful of things that I find offensive... I can't tolerate loud, crude and common people. I'm also bothered by stupid people. Do I wander the town square with an IQ Test (usually don't have to, it's apparent), no, I just remove myself from the situation.

Let's try to keep our eyes on the big picture, kiddies. We're living in a beautiful community with generally law-abiding people. The dogs here are well-bred, well groomed, on a leash. They are not a pack of renegade mutts tearing through the community (can't say the same for the children).

If you all feel so strongly about this issue, change the rules, but be careful. Remember that in life when you make a choice you must accept the consequences.

You "can't tolerate common people." Reminds me of Leona Helmsley. :yuck:

[Barefoot]

:bigbow:

Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved. P.S. I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:boxing2:

We had the same experience on two different occasions in Flagler Beach. After visiting the dog beach, we had lunch on the deck of two different restaurants. Both restaurants warmly welcomed our dogs and offered them bowls of water. Our dogs laid quietly under the table.

[Patty55]

You "can't tolerate common people." Reminds me of Leona Helmsley. :yuck:

If you are going to quote me, please be accurate. I wrote loud, crude AND common.

Funny, I never thought of Leona Helmsley as "common".

[Patty55]

:bigbow:

Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved.
P.S. I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:boxing2:

I had the same experience here in TV. Our first night here we went to RJ Gators with the two dogs. They were under the table, worn out from the drive and amazed at all the activity in the square. They were given water in a disposable cup. Nobody complained, nobody had a problem. If anyone had a problem they had the good sense to keep it to themselves.

PS-I also can't stand people who put down their spouse in public, especially when they pretend they are joking.:boxing2::boxing2:

[Irish Rover]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but dogs in training are often times brought into restaurants for training purposes. ALSO if you are a Florida resident, be warned that if you visit the Keys you will find dogs and cats in restaurants and they won't be service dogs or cats. Key West has them everwhere. Doesn't bother me as long as I don't have to hold them while I eat, but I am a dog person.

[Irish Rover]

Doug, cool answer. Obviously you are not an old fart.

[eremite06]

I had the same experience here in TV. Our first night here we went to RJ Gators with the two dogs. They were under the table, worn out from the drive and amazed at all the activity in the square. They were given water in a disposable cup. Nobody complained, nobody had a problem. If anyone had a problem they had the good sense to keep it to themselves.

PS-I also can't stand people who put down their spouse in public, especially when they pretend they are joking.:boxing2::boxing2:

Good, better, best sense, IMHO, is don't bring your pet in a restaurant. :icon_hungry:

[Irish Rover]

Patty, great reply. We travel with our dog and rarely take him where people think he shouldn't be but if they are controlled people should lighten up. Welcome to the new expanded Villages where people have forgotten that they are in a new lifestyle situation and are pronouncing their old predjudices.

[SannyTX]

Yep, kind of sums up my feelings. I do feel that I can do as I wish as long as I follow the rules. Prior to living here I made more of an effort to being considerate, now... NOT SO MUCH.

I find it impossible to be considerate of others because everyone has a complaint about something. Dogs outside? Smoking in the outside smoking section? Birds eating peanuts?

I've got a handful of things that I find offensive... I can't tolerate loud, crude and common people. I'm also bothered by stupid people. Do I wander the town square with an IQ Test (usually don't have to, it's apparent), no, I just remove myself from the situation.

Let's try to keep our eyes on the big picture, kiddies. We're living in a beautiful community with generally law-abiding people. The dogs here are well-bred, well groomed, on a leash. They are not a pack of renegade mutts tearing through the community (can't say the same for the children).

If you all feel so strongly about this issue, change the rules, but be careful. Remember that in life when you make a choice you must accept the consequences.

For some reason, this post reminded me of one of my favorite poems. I can't wait to move to TV and bring my big, happy, black lab to happy hours on the patio.

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn't go, and doesn't suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we've no money for butter.

I shall sit down on the pavement when I'm tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.

I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick the flowers in other peoples' gardens
And learn to spit.

You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go
Or only bread and pickles for a week
And hoard pens and pencils and beermats and things in boxes.

But now we must have clothes that keep us dry
And pay our rent and not swear in the street
And set a good example for the children.
We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.

But maybe I ought to practice a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.

[KeepingItReal]

:Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved.
Ps I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:

And did it or does it even matter the restaurant and the dogs were violating state health laws. People can justify anything they want to do whether it is legal or not. The laws as written cover the entire state not just the Villages. Any consideration for the other patrons?

[KeepingItReal]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but dogs in training are often times brought into restaurants for training purposes. ALSO if you are a Florida resident, be warned that if you visit the Keys you will find dogs and cats in restaurants and they won't be service dogs or cats. Key West has them everwhere. Doesn't bother me as long as I don't have to hold them while I eat, but I am a dog person.

Pulled from the internet 04/18/2013 regarding dogs in Key West...Bring Fido.com Looks like things are changing in Key West to comply with Florida Laws.

PLEASE NOTE: A RECENT CITY ORDINANCE REQUIRES RESTAURANTS TO OBTAIN A PERMIT IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE ALLOWING DOGS AT THEIR OUTDOOR TABLES. THIS RESTAURANT MAY NOT ALLOW FIDO TO DINE WITH YOU RIGHT NOW IF THEY'RE STILL WAITING ON A PERMIT.

Dog Friendly Restaurants in Surrounding Area
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Summerland Key, FL, US (22.4 miles from Key West)
4 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Marathon, FL, US (45.8 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Key Colony Beach, FL, US (49.1 miles from Key West)
8 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Islamorada, FL, US (82.1 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Tavernier, FL, US (85.3 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Everglades City, FL, US (92.7 miles from Key West)
6 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Key Largo, FL, US (93.7 miles from Key West)
6 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Marco Island, FL, US (95.0 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Homestead, FL, US (104.2 miles from Key West)
2 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Palmetto Bay, FL, US (116.8 miles from Key West)

[perrjojo]

And did it or does it even matter the restaurant and the dogs were violating state health laws. People can justify anything they want to do whether it is legal or not. The laws as written cover the entire state not just the Villages.

And do you drive your golf cart at 19.5MPH? Stop at every stop sign? Etc. etc.
This week we had innocent people killed and maimed in Boston, a dreadful explosion with loss of life and property and many injuries in Texas. Oh, and there are terrible floods in Chicago. LET'S GET THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.
Thank you!

[The Flash]

am so tired of dogs being everywhere. and now in restaurants also? it is bad enough all over the squares, on the sidewalks all over the place, walking and urinating and pooping wherever their owners think they can be. i have seen several businesses put up signs that discourage customers from bringing their dogs on the property.
Dog owners...please respect that not all of us love having your pets around us.

Think there are signs at the squares saying pedestrians only. Don't think dogs fall under the definition of pedestrian.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by perrjojo
:Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved.
Ps I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:
And do you drive your golf cart at 19.5MPH? Stop at every stop sign? Etc. etc.
This week we had innocent people killed and maimed in Boston, a dreadful explosion with loss of life and property and many injuries in Texas. Oh, and there are terrible floods in Chicago. LET'S GET THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.
Thank you!

The subject is dogs in restaurants, think golf carts are in another thread..

Apples and oranges, let's get real....What in the world does the events in Boston, Texas, or Chicago have to do with dogs in Florida..Then there is gum chewing thing???..

Didn't see Boston, Texas, or Chicago mentioned when we were bragging about taking dogs in the Clearwater Restaurant..without any of the health requirements being followed..What about the concerns of other patrons???

[perrjojo]

Originally Posted by perrjojo
:Just returned from Clearwater and had lunch with our dog on the patio. The reason he was with us is that we were traveling and it's too hot in the car. He was greeted with warm smiles, dog treats, and a nice cool bowl of water. There were no hand sanitizers on the table, no warnings bout washing our hand,no dirty looks and yes, the hostess and waiter did pet him. He lay under the table, quiet, unobtrusive and loved.
Ps I can't stand gum chewers...it's a common, vulgar habit.:




The subject is dogs in restaurants, think golf carts are in another thread..

Apples and oranges, let's get real....What in the world does the events in Boston have to do with dogs in Florida..Then there is gum chewing???..Didn't see Boston mentioned when we were bragging about taking dogs in the Clearwater Restaurant..

What it has "to do with it" is that there are many posts complaining about golf speeding tickets, dogs in resturaunts, etc. if this is all we have to complain about; we do indeed have a blessed life. If you don't get the chewing gum part, well, you just don't get my sense of humor but that's ok.

[Patty55]

Think there are signs at the squares saying pedestrians only. Don't think dogs fall under the definition of pedestrian.

I think it would be great if you would point this out to every dog person you see.

[CFrance]

Key West allowed dogs in restaurants' outdoor seating ever since time. Was never illegal in KW if a resto wanted to permit it. We took our dogs to outside parts of restos there for a decade. Heck, they even allow chickens to run around their outside seating. Anyone ever eaten at Blue Heaven??? The only difference is that now that the state of FL has declared this is now legal statewide if you get a permit, all restaurants must now get a permit.

[Patty55]

Pulled from the internet 04/18/2013 regarding dogs in Key West...Bring Fido.com Looks like things are changing in Key West to comply with Florida Laws.

PLEASE NOTE: A RECENT CITY ORDINANCE REQUIRES RESTAURANTS TO OBTAIN A PERMIT IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE ALLOWING DOGS AT THEIR OUTDOOR TABLES. THIS RESTAURANT MAY NOT ALLOW FIDO TO DINE WITH YOU RIGHT NOW IF THEY'RE STILL WAITING ON A PERMIT.

Dog Friendly Restaurants in Surrounding Area
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Summerland Key, FL, US (22.4 miles from Key West)
4 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Marathon, FL, US (45.8 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Key Colony Beach, FL, US (49.1 miles from Key West)
8 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Islamorada, FL, US (82.1 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Tavernier, FL, US (85.3 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Everglades City, FL, US (92.7 miles from Key West)
6 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Key Largo, FL, US (93.7 miles from Key West)
6 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Marco Island, FL, US (95.0 miles from Key West)
1 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Homestead, FL, US (104.2 miles from Key West)
2 Dog Friendly Restaurants in Palmetto Bay, FL, US (116.8 miles from Key West)

BTW, very useful website.
Thank you

[buggyone]

What would you do if you saw a dog saving a chair for his human at one of the squares?

[OnTrack]

I think dogs are wonderful, but they are still an animal.....and NOT human.

Unless a person actually requires one by law and it is properly trained.....they should stay out of restaurants.

.

[The Flash]

What would you do if you saw a dog saving a chair for his human at one of the squares?

Not sure what I would do, but to those who had the seat savers on their chairs at SS last weekend, if you are wondering who moved your seat savers and put the two rows in front of you, it was me.
:)

[Patty55]

I think dogs are wonderful, but they are still an animal.....and NOT human.

Unless a person actually requires one by law and it is properly trained.....they should stay out of restaurants.

.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone is required by law to have a dog, not yet anyway. Of course, in my village it is mandatory, but still not the law.

[Barefoot]

Didn't see Boston, Texas, or Chicago mentioned when we were bragging about taking dogs in the Clearwater Restaurant..without any of the health requirements being followed..What about the concerns of other patrons???[/B]

As far as the concerns of other patrons, I know there are some people who dislike dogs, for sure. However any time we take our dogs anywhere public, we have a constant stream of people wanting to pat them and ask questions about them. It's been our experience that The Villages is very pet friendly, and most people are warm and congenial and seem to enjoy pets.

[OnTrack]

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone is required by law to have a dog, not yet anyway. Of course, in my village it is mandatory, but still not the law.

Poorly worded probably, but I'm pretty sure you understood what I meant.

In other words, seeing eye/comfort and other dogs......that are covered under the law.

That doesn't mean, just because you feel like bringing your animal in where other people are eating.


As to your comment above....."If anyone had a problem, they had the good sense to keep it to themselves."......be assured I wasn't in there at the same time. ;)


.

Because I do have the good sense to know..... not to bring an animal into a restaurant.


.

[KeepingItReal]

As far as the concerns of other patrons, I know there are some people who dislike dogs, for sure. However any time we take our dogs anywhere public, we have a constant stream of people wanting to pat them and ask questions about them. It's been our experience that The Villages is very pet friendly, and most people are warm and congenial and seem to enjoy pets.



Dogs are great and don't think I have ever said they were not but they are dogs not people and at their best they are prone to licking and sniffing anything and everything including themselves and their waste as all animals do. Dogs have their place and it is obvious many badly need their companionship and become totally irrational if anyone doesn't agree that Fido or whoever is not just not the sweetest adorable thing ever was. A lot of other people feel threatened by them, even scared to death of them, or just don't care to have them in their face all the time even in places they are not allowed. Guess we could compare them to a smoker's second hand smoke being in your face if you do not smoke when someone put's their dog where it should not be. Those with dogs at least in this area are still in the minority not the majority even though it seems otherwise. Out of 20 homes nearby 5 have one or more dogs. As far as the constant stream of people wanting to pet them have we ever bothered to notice there are also a lot of people who do not wish to be near them.

[Patty55]

Poorly worded probably, but I'm pretty sure you understood what I meant.

In other words, seeing eye/comfort and other dogs......that are covered under the law.

That doesn't mean, just because you feel like bringing your animal in where other people are eating.


As to your comment above.....[/b][/I]......be assured I wasn't in there at the same time. ;)
.

Because I do have the good sense to know

Once again, Comfort Dogs are not afforded the same rights as Service Dogs. They are not the same thing.

[OnTrack]

Dogs are great and don't think I have ever said they were not but they are dogs not people and at their best they are prone to licking and sniffing anything and everything including themselves and their waste as all animals do. Dogs have their place and it is obvious many badly need their companionship and become totally irrational if anyone doesn't agree that Fido or whoever is not just not the sweetest adorable thing ever was. A lot of other people feel threatened by them, even scared to death of them, or just don't care to have them in their face all the time even in places they are not allowed. Guess we could compare them to a smoker's second hand smoke being in your face if you do not smoke when someone put's their dog where it should not be. Those with dogs at least in this area are still in the minority not the majority even though it seems otherwise. Out of 20 homes nearby 5 have one or more dogs. As far as the constant stream of people wanting to pet them have we ever bothered to notice there is also a lot of people who do not wish to be near them.

Excellent post! :bigbow:


.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by patty
"If anyone had a problem, they had the good sense to keep it to themselves."

As to your comment above.....[/b][/I]......be assured I wasn't in there at the same time. ;)

.
Neither was I ....................

[OnTrack]

Once again, Comfort Dogs are not afforded the same rights as Service Dogs. They are not the same thing.

I see I need to simplify this for you. :doh:

If a dog is allowed by law to enter a restaurant....so be it.

If I don't like it, I'll leave.

Other than that, keep animals where they belong and out of restaurants.

If someone doesn't like that...they need to leave.

Is that better? :D

.

[Patty55]

I see I need to simplify this for you. :doh:

If a dog is allowed by law to enter a restaurant....so be it.

If I don't like it, I'll leave.

Other than that, keep animals where they belong.

If someone doesn't like that...they need to leave.

Is that better? :D

.

Well, there you go.
Buh Bye

[Barefoot]

Guess we could compare them to a smoker's second hand smoke being in your face if you do not smoke, when someone put's their dog where it should not be.

I see that you are comparing dogs that are permitted on a deck or patio of a restaurant, where they lie quietly under the table, to a Smoker's second-hand smoke being in your face, which is a known health hazard. :ohdear: I don't see the validity of that comparison.

As far as the original topic of this thread, three dogs in City Fire, the manager told me they were documented Service Dogs.

[KeepingItReal]

I see that you are comparing dogs that are permitted on a deck or patio of a restaurant, where they lie quietly under the table, to a Smoker's second-hand smoke being in your face, which is a known health hazard. I don't see the validity of that comparison.

As far as the original topic of this thread, three dogs in City Fire, the manager told me they were documented Service Dogs.

If managers are not allowed to ask, as stated in the posts, how did he know they were documented Service Dogs?????

Dogs are likely more of an immediate risk to health than second hand smoke and it only takes one exposure to cause a problem. Read any of the following links for proof..and there are many more..owners want to eat with them fine with me but let's just follow the health laws that are for our protection. It would be absurd to say the dogs here are so clean it does not apply to them.

Health Risks (http://www.scoopdedoo.com/healthrisks.html)
That leaves dogs. Officials know that they have a lot of educating to do before people realize their pooch can be a canine sewage pipe. Some people find it humiliating to carry a plastic bag.

www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/feb/07/kissing-dogs-cuddling-cats-may-be-health-risk/

www.anapsid.org/zoonoses2.html

www.ehow.com/facts_5552007_health-risks-humans-dog-urine.html

The composition of dog urine is much the same as human urine, but dogs use their noses more than humans to understand the world around them. Their curiosity can cause them to contract infectious diseases; at least one of those can be passed on to humans.

Read more: Health Related Risks to Humans From Dog Urine

[Patty55]

If managers are not allowed to ask, as stated in the posts, how did he know they were documented Service Dogs?????

Dogs are likely more of an immediate risk to health than second hand smoke and it only takes one exposure to cause a problem. Read any of the following links for proof..and there are many more..owners want to eat with them fine with me but let's just follow the health laws that are for our protection. It would be absurd to say the dogs here are so clean it does not apply to them.

Health Risks (http://www.scoopdedoo.com/healthrisks.html)
That leaves dogs. Officials know that they have a lot of educating to do before people realize their pooch can be a canine sewage pipe. Some people find it humiliating to carry a plastic bag.

Kissing dogs, cuddling cats may be health risk - POLL � Naples Daily News (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/feb/07/kissing-dogs-cuddling-cats-may-be-health-risk/)

Pets Pose Health Hazards, Experts Warn (http://www.anapsid.org/zoonoses2.html)

Health Related Risks to Humans From Dog Urine | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/facts_5552007_health-risks-humans-dog-urine.html)

The composition of dog urine is much the same as human urine, but dogs use their noses more than humans to understand the world around them. Their curiosity can cause them to contract infectious diseases; at least one of those can be passed on to humans.

Read more: Health Related Risks to Humans From Dog Urine

Thank you so much for the links, I always go to Scoopdedoo.com when I want the real truth-LOL

[KeepingItReal]

Thank you so much for the links, I always go to Scoopdedoo.com when I want the real truth-LOL

Really glad I could help...

ab�surd [ab-surd, -zurd] adjective
1.
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.

Taken From 3rd Web Link: There are health perils to owning pets -- a fact many pet owners seem to prefer to ignore, often choosing unbridled affection over hygiene.

[bluedog103]

[B]If managers are not allowed to ask, as stated in the posts, how did he know they were documented Service Dogs?????

Can't say for sure but they may have been regular customers. Restaurant managers usually remember these things. Often those with service dogs will voluntarily show their documentation but it isn't required nor can it be requested.

[Patty55]

Really glad I could help...

ab�surd [ab-surd, -zurd] adjective
1.
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.

Taken From 3rd Web Link: There are health perils to owning pets -- a fact many pet owners seem to prefer to ignore, often choosing unbridled affection over hygiene.

Thread has gotten silly, I'm done.....

Yes, I also read your third link to Melissa Kaplan's Herb Care Collection.

Your first link "Health Risks" is for Scoopdedoo.com

Perhaps this link can provide real info The Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind (http://www.guidedog.org/)

[KeepingItReal]

[QUOTE=Patty55;662678]Yes, I also read your third link to Melissa Kaplan's Herb Care Collection.

Thank you so much for the links, I always go to Scoopdedoo.com when I want the real truth-LOL



Really was done but : Maybe we need to click on the links again in your last post where they were copied or check your computer for major problems ...have no idea what we're talking about Herb Care??? LOL I think it is Herp

Melissa Kaplan's
Herp Care Collection
Last updated January 13, 2013
Pets Pose Health Hazards, Experts Warn

For the umteenth time, no one has a problem with true service animals helping anyone that has one..on the inside or outside as the laws provide for this

[Barefoot]

[QUOTE=KeepingItReal;662640][B]If managers are not allowed to ask, as stated in the posts, how did he know they were documented Service Dogs?????
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How on earth could I possibly respond to your question? I called the manager of City Fire. He told me the three dogs in question were documented service dogs. :ohdear: I have no reason to feel that he was lying.

I'm sorry, but I think you are prejudiced against dogs in general.

[KeepingItReal]

[QUOTE=KeepingItReal;662640]If managers are not allowed to ask, as stated in the posts, how did he know they were documented Service Dogs?????
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How on earth could I possibly respond to your question? I called the manager of City Fire. He told me the three dogs in question were documented service dogs. I have no reason to feel that he was lying.

I'm sorry, but I think you are prejudiced against dogs in general.

He/she should know and nope, I have had dogs all my life and a Sheltie house dog for many years. We never took her to a grocery store or a restaurant and we didn't take her out to other places she should not be. [B]Our dog never left our yard until her business was done and then we walked. Just gets old when people want to scoff at the laws, health warnings, and just do whatever they wish without regards for the rights and wishes of others. Though many with dogs want to ignore the health issues the people who don't have a dog understand the risks, take them seriously, and should not have to worry what is left on the floor, chairs, tables, etc. at a restaurant from the previous patron and their dog.

Again, no one has a problem with true service animals helping anyone that has one..on the inside or outside as the laws provide for this and these folks depend on these animals to go about their lives

[Patty55]

[quote=Barefoot;662693]

Nope, have had dogs all my life and a Sheltie house dog for years but we had to put her down in 2007. We didn't take her out to places she should not be, just gets old when people want to ignore the laws, health warnings, and do whatever they wish without regards for the rights and wishes of others. Though many with dogs want to ignore the health issues the people who don't have a dog understand the risks and should not have to worry what is left on the floor, chairs, tables, etc. at a restaurant from the previous patron.

Again, no one has a problem with true service animals helping anyone that has one..on the inside or outside as the laws provide for this and these folks depend on these animals to go about their lives

Now I'm done.....

Absolutely, NOBODY should ever ignore a warning from Scoopdedoo.com

FYI-Service animals out of harness act like any other well-mannered dog. You wouldn't know the difference. In harness, they are "on the job".

[KeepingItReal]

[quote=Patty55;662705][quote=KeepingItReal;662702]

Absolutely, NOBODY should ever ignore a warning from Scoopdedoo.com

FYI-Service animals out of harness act like any other well-mannered dog. You wouldn't know the difference. In harness, they are "on the job".



There is an old saying that there are none so blind as those that refuse to see......

[Barefoot]

..... just gets old when people want to ignore the laws, health warnings, and do whatever they wish without regards for the rights and wishes of others. Though many with dogs want to ignore the health issues the people who don't have a dog understand the risks and should not have to worry what is left on the floor, chairs, tables, etc. at a restaurant from the previous patron.
Now I'm done.....

The Villages is pet friendly with two dogs allowed per household. Some restaurants allow well-behaved dogs on the patio. I don't understand why people who think pets are dirty and/or distasteful would choose to live in TV.

[KeepingItReal]

The Villages is pet friendly with two dogs allowed per household. Some restaurants allow well-behaved dogs on the patio. I don't understand why people who think pets are dirty and/or distasteful would choose to live in TV.

Turn that around and say a lot of people don't understand why people want to bring their dogs to a restaurant unless the restaurant is following the Florida Laws that allow it then it their choice to be there or not. If they are following the laws then no problem, if not then no dogs should be there on the patios. it is really pretty simple if you think about it. Being pet friendly does not mean there are no requirements about where they can and cannot go. Personally I don't enjoy seeing a dog clean themselves no matter how quietly and well behaved they are while doing so not to mention the urine and waste residue they leave, especially the urine dribbles where they sit or lay not to mention the occasional pile of waste left behind.
I am sure when we moved here we thought people would be respectful of others and not assume everyone's yard and all the public areas were set aside for their dogs including the cul de sac common areas.

Please (RE) Read Post #172

Dogs are great and don't think I have ever said they were not but they are dogs not people and at their best they are prone to licking and sniffing anything and everything including themselves and their waste as all animals do. Dogs have their place and it is obvious many badly need their companionship and become totally irrational if anyone doesn't agree that Fido or whoever is not just not the sweetest adorable thing ever was. A lot of other people feel threatened by them, even scared to death of them, or just don't care to have them in their face all the time even in places they are not allowed. As far as the constant stream of people wanting to pet them have we ever bothered to notice there are also a lot of people who do not wish to be near them.

[ilovetv]

The Villages is pet friendly with two dogs allowed per household. Some restaurants allow well-behaved dogs on the patio. I don't understand why people who think pets are dirty and/or distasteful would choose to live in TV.

I'll tell you why. Because we don't think the PETS are dirty, distasteful or anything else!!!! It's the numerous OWNERS who are the problem!

Every week there is another dog poop thread that accumulates dozens and hundreds of posts, with thousands of views, about the numerous inconsiderate, disrespectful, irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs crap on other people's lawns and rec center and pool/postal station lawns, and do not pick up after the dog, and their dog urine kills grass that has cost money to plant and maintain.

There have also been lengthy threads about the ignoramuses who pick up their dog's crap at the pool/postal station, and throw it into the trash cans by our postal boxes, creating a disgusting stench coming out of the trash cans. It's been discussed ad nauseaum whether there should be dog crap disposal receptacles there.

Then there have also been several threads about people wanting to keep dogs out of the town square dance and seating areas, because they have stepped in manure that the dog owners did not pick up, and what's a person going to do to get rid of manure off their shoes while there at the square?!?! Buy new shoes? Go to SweetBay and buy a spatula and toothpicks to dig and scrape the crap out from between all the treads? Or go home to get different shoes? Either way, that person's night is done when they step in a dog pile.

The real problem is that the limitation of only credentialed service dogs being allowed inside and outside restaurants in FL is disappearing, with various communities adopting ordinances allowing PET dogs, cats, and other pet animals to be in restaurant dining areas.

If that gets approved in TV, the irresponsible, selfish, egotistical "I don't give a damn" dog owners cited in all the infamous dog poop threads here will be "exercising their rights"....and there WILL be dog manure left under restaurant tables....or in walkways where servers carrying loaded food trays will slip on fresh dog crap and they will fall with food platters flying. All the dog poop threads here leave NO doubt this is what will happen if PET dogs and other animals are allowed in restaurant dining areas here in TV.

And already, the enablers here are making excuses for scofflaws.

[KeepingItReal]

I'll tell you why. Because we don't think the PETS are dirty, distasteful or anything else!!!! It's the numerous OWNERS who are the problem!

Every week there is another dog poop thread that accumulates dozens and hundreds of posts, with thousands of views, about the numerous inconsiderate, disrespectful, irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs crap on other people's lawns and rec center and pool/postal station lawns, and do not pick up after the dog, and their dog urine kills grass that has cost money to plant and maintain.

There have also been lengthy threads about the ignoramuses who pick up their dog's crap at the pool/postal station, and throw it into the trash cans by our postal boxes, creating a disgusting stench coming out of the trash cans. It's been discussed ad nauseaum whether there should be dog crap disposal receptacles there.

Then there have also been several threads about people wanting to keep dogs out of the town square dance and seating areas, because they have stepped in manure that the dog owners did not pick up, and what's a person going to do to get rid of manure off their shoes while there at the square?!?! Buy new shoes? Or go home to get different shoes? Either way, that person's night is done when they step in a dog pile.

The real problem is that the limitation of true service dogs only being allowed inside and outside restaurants in FL is disappearing, with various communities adopting ordinances allowing PET dogs, cats, and other pet animals to be in restaurant dining areas.

If that gets approved in TV, the irresponsible, selfish, egotistical "I don't give a damn" dog owners cited in all the infamous dog poop threads here will be "exercising their rights"....and there WILL be dog manure left under restaurant tables....or in walkways where servers carrying loaded food trays will slip on fresh dog crap and they will fall with food platters flying. All the dog poop threads here leave NO doubt this is what will happen if PET dogs and other animals are allowed in restaurant dining areas here in TV.

And already, the enablers here are making excuses for scofflaws.

:bigbow::bigbow::mademyday:

[Barefoot]

...... the irresponsible, selfish, egotistical "I don't give a damn" dog owners cited in all the infamous dog poop threads here will be "exercising their rights"....and there WILL be dog manure left under restaurant tables....or in walkways where servers carrying loaded food trays will slip on fresh dog crap and they will fall with food platters flying. All the dog poop threads here leave NO doubt this is what will happen if PET dogs and other animals are allowed in restaurant dining areas here in TV. And already, the enablers here are making excuses for scofflaws.

Henny Penny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny)

[BobnBev]

Really glad I could help...

ab�surd [ab-surd, -zurd] adjective
1.
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.

Taken From 3rd Web Link: There are health perils to owning pets -- a fact many pet owners seem to prefer to ignore, often choosing unbridled affection over hygiene.

So, what's your point? Life goes on, whether a dog licks my ear, or pees on my bushes. The world has a lot more problems that should be addressed.
Just sayin--------:ohdear:

[BobnBev]

especially the urine dribbles----Dogs have dribbles?????? How about that!!!!!

I never studied a dogs privates to see if they dribble.

[BobnBev]

I'll tell you why. Because we don't think the PETS are dirty, distasteful or anything else!!!! It's the numerous OWNERS who are the problem!

Every week there is another dog poop thread that accumulates dozens and hundreds of posts, with thousands of views, about the numerous inconsiderate, disrespectful, irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs crap on other people's lawns and rec center and pool/postal station lawns, and do not pick up after the dog, and their dog urine kills grass that has cost money to plant and maintain.

There have also been lengthy threads about the ignoramuses who pick up their dog's crap at the pool/postal station, and throw it into the trash cans by our postal boxes, creating a disgusting stench coming out of the trash cans. It's been discussed ad nauseaum whether there should be dog crap disposal receptacles there.

Then there have also been several threads about people wanting to keep dogs out of the town square dance and seating areas, because they have stepped in manure that the dog owners did not pick up, and what's a person going to do to get rid of manure off their shoes while there at the square?!?! Buy new shoes? Go to SweetBay and buy a spatula and toothpicks to dig and scrape the crap out from between all the treads? Or go home to get different shoes? Either way, that person's night is done when they step in a dog pile.

The real problem is that the limitation of only credentialed service dogs being allowed inside and outside restaurants in FL is disappearing, with various communities adopting ordinances allowing PET dogs, cats, and other pet animals to be in restaurant dining areas.

If that gets approved in TV, the irresponsible, selfish, egotistical "I don't give a damn" dog owners cited in all the infamous dog poop threads here will be "exercising their rights"....and there WILL be dog manure left under restaurant tables....or in walkways where servers carrying loaded food trays will slip on fresh dog crap and they will fall with food platters flying. All the dog poop threads here leave NO doubt this is what will happen if PET dogs and other animals are allowed in restaurant dining areas here in TV.

And already, the enablers here are making excuses for scofflaws.

I hope I'm around with my video camera to catch that action:a040:
Great footage for Americas Funnies Videos, I might be the big winner:pepper2::pepper2:

[gomoho]

There are probably more men in TV that have "dribbles" than dogs!

ILOVE TV - you have to be kidding me???

And I'm just curious - some people complaining are saying ok to service dogs, but have a problem with non/service dogs being dirty. Not sure how you can make that distinction?

[Irish Rover]

ILOVETV - this all sounds like a "crock of s---" to me. Keep in mind that TV is comprised of folks who thought they were moving to a really tolerant, friendly, and understanding community of like minded individuals. Old folks have pets and pets pee and poop outdoors, hopefully. You can't pick up pee but the poop is a different story - should be picked up and if not people should be fined. Remember, all those wild critters you don't believe are in TV are doing their number on your lawn. Loosen up and enjoy. No one really cares how cool your lawn looks but they do care about how "America"s friendliest hometown" looks to the next new neighbor. Just my humble opinion.

[blueash]

I have seen many posts saying that the restaurant cannot ask whether the dog is a service dog. That is not correct. From the ADA requirements:
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals (http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm)

"
Service Animals Must Be Under Control

Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal�s work or the individual�s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals
When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person�s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

So the restaurant can ask if the animal is a service dog related to a disability but cannot ask what the disability might be although it can ask what special skill the animal has acquired (that would seem to indirectly identify most disabilities)

[looneycat]

I do believe Comfort dogs are a type of therapy dog. These Comfort/therapy dogs were available when students arrived back to school, Sandy Hook Elementry.

Probably wasn't the best idea to bring three large dogs into the restaurant, but since they are therapy dogs, they probably can go in and be with their handlers.

Therapy dogs are not service or assistance dogs. Service dogs directly assist humans and have a legal right to accompany their owners in most areas. In the United States, service dogs are legally protected at the federal level by the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Therapy dogs do not provide direct assistance and are not mentioned in the Americans with Disabilities Act

[bluedog103]

I have seen many posts saying that the restaurant cannot ask whether the dog is a service dog. That is not correct. From the ADA requirements:
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals (http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm)

"
Service Animals Must Be Under Control

Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal�s work or the individual�s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls.

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals
When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person�s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task."

So the restaurant can ask if the animal is a service dog related to a disability but cannot ask what the disability might be although it can ask what special skill the animal has acquired (that would seem to indirectly identify most disabilities)

I haven't seen any posts saying a restaurant manager or employee cannot ask if a dog is a service animal and since I'm not inclined to read all 199 posts in this thread I'll leave that alone. I cannot imagine a situation where the restaurant owner or manager would not want to know if the dog in question is a service dog. That of course is one of the two questions which may be asked. I suspect that you believe that by asking what work or tasks a dog is trained to perform they can determine the handlers disability. That may be true in some cases but certainly not all, just as the disability of some handlers will be obvious but others are much more difficult to determine by observation.
What people seem to have a problem with is that the dog does not have to wear a tag or vest and the handler is not required to produce any documentation or certification for the dog. I think in most cases these would be moot points since often the handler would voluntarily show these documents.

[CFrance]

There is a serious amount of training that goes on in the making of a service dog. Our dog has been through three obedience/socialization courses, but I can't imagine taking him, even at age 5, inside a restaurant without the proper guide dog training. Especially a golden retriever, which a lot of guide dogs are--they have to greet every single person on earth. Personally, and up close. Yes, they calm down eventually and will sit quietly, but those first couple of minutes would give them away. They wag their tails beginning at the hips. Actually, the tail wags the dog.

He does really well outside on restaurant porches, but in a confined indoor seating space... I/he couldn't pull off the scam.

[JoeC1947]

There are probably more men in TV that have "dribbles" than dogs!

ILOVE TV - you have to be kidding me???

And I'm just curious - some people complaining are saying ok to service dogs, but have a problem with non/service dogs being dirty. Not sure how you can make that distinction?

I agree, there is no distinction. A dog is a dog and does not know whether or not it is a service dog.

[Love2cruise]

ILOVETV - this all sounds like a "crock of s---" to me. Keep in mind that TV is comprised of folks who thought they were moving to a really tolerant, friendly, and understanding community of like minded individuals. Old folks have pets and pets pee and poop outdoors, hopefully. You can't pick up pee but the poop is a different story - should be picked up and if not people should be fined. Remember, all those wild critters you don't believe are in TV are doing their number on your lawn. Loosen up and enjoy. No one really cares how cool your lawn looks but they do care about how "America"s friendliest hometown" looks to the next new neighbor. Just my humble opinion.

Well said!! I'm glad I already bought my house because if I hadn't and read some of the posts on this forum, I would certainly be doubting the friendliness of TV.

[perrjojo]

Well said!! I'm glad I already bought my house because if I hadn't and read some of the posts on this forum, I would certainly be doubting the friendliness of TV.

:agree:
As Gracie would say, "Boy Howdy!" You are so correct. I would have thought this was a terrible place. Occasionally I "swear off" reading this site because it can bring so much negativity into my life. I love our Village Life.

[graciegirl]

:agree:
As Gracie would say, "Boy Howdy!" You are so correct. I would have thought this was a terrible place. Occasionally I "swear off" reading this site because it can bring so much negativity into my life. I love our Village Life.


Today....I just read a bunch of posts where again the theme was negativity. From bad food to bad developer to being lied to by salespeople.

I don't know why that always makes me want to react. AND DEFEND.


My mother told me don't say ALL when you mean SOME. And sometimes a closed mouth is better than repeating unverified gossip.

ABOUT food, my mother said.... noone wants to hear how you hate it, it just isn't interesting to other people.

When you attack someone for no reason, people wonder what your reason is.

I say to the same people over and over...just go ahead and color it ugly, for whatever reason you want to.

I, ME, Gracie, think this is a great place and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I don't blame other people for my own mistakes. If I eat somewhere and don't like it, I don't go back. If I can get a better deal financing, I go to another lending institution. If I didn't buy a big enough lot than I can't have the kick to my garage and unless and until someone comes on here and says they have met the developers and know them personally, I will not pay attention to what you have to say...negative or positive.

Boy Howdy.



The better I know some people, the better I like dogs.

[OnTrack]

When you attack someone for no reason, people wonder what your reason is.

Excellent point.

Do you think that should also apply to those who attack others.......just because they relate a less than perfect experience?

.

[ilovetv]

There are probably more men in TV that have "dribbles" than dogs!

ILOVE TV - you have to be kidding me???.......


No, I wasn't kidding.

4/17/13 -- "BONITA SPRINGS � The doggy bag concept took on a whole new meaning during Wednesday�s Bonita Springs City Council meeting.

The council unanimously adopted an ordinance that will allow restaurants with outdoor seating to apply for permits that would let patrons bring their dogs to dinner.

The law reflects current practice at local outdoor establishments, council members agreed, but with a few new guidelines.

�We should have something about the disposal of doggy waste,� Councilwoman Martha Simons said. �Maybe add that waste should be wrapped in a Baggie and thrown in a Dumpster away from the service area. You want to avoid flies.�

Simons� suggestion was added to the ordinance, which goes into effect in 30 days...."

Bone appetit: Bonita Springs to allow dogs at restaurants with outdoor tables � Naples Daily News (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/apr/17/bone-appetit-bonita-springs-dogs-outdoor-dining/)

April 27, 2012
By Sandra Pedicini, Orlando Sentinel

WINTER PARK � For years, dog owners brought their furry friends to Hillstone in Winter Park, letting them hang out on the lawn and patio at the restaurant overlooking Lake Killarney.

But this month, Hillstone kicked out the dogs.

"The number of guests bringing dogs was increasing and increasing, and the complaints from our other guests were increasing as well," said Todd Martin, Hillstone's general manager.

Restaurants, hotels and shopping areas are making accommodations for pets, and in Florida more local governments are giving official blessing to "doggie dining." But welcoming Fido and Fluffy can become an expensive hassle that sometimes gets businesses in the doghouse with other customers.....

Some diners have a bone to pick with dogs at restaurants - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-27/business/os-pets-restaurants-hotels-policy-20120427_1_doggie-dining-lists-restaurants-dog-owners)

[JourneyOfLife]

Big difference between allow through permit and required!

I still think there are practical problems with it.... especially from the restauranteurs POV. Might fly in some establishments that lean more towards Bar + Food.

Let's face it, for most business people, decisions tend to be profit oriented. Will that situation increase profit? If so, is there any downside risk or will it increase problems and hassles?

I would expect successful establishments to "wait and see"!

Allowing pets will reduce the number of tables available because tables will need to be further apart. That has a direct effect on revenue and profit. Because what is the alternative.... being crammed up close to a dog taking a poop or pee (splatter spash). Hope your leg is not the substitute hydrant!

Then there is the insurance issue. The jerk that wants to take their pitbull with them!

[Patty55]

Yep, this place is just overflowing with pit bulls.

[gomoho]

First of all dogs don't go around peeing and pooing all the time and doubt that would be an issue at an outdoor patio restaurant.

Second, pit bulls aren't born bad they are made that way by bad owners!!!

[JourneyOfLife]

Yep, this place is just overflowing with pit bulls.

Pitbull is just an obvious example of a potentially unruly dog. Pick the breed or even a mutt.

More of an example of how some people push the envelope!

[gomoho]

What???

[CFrance]

I wish they would shut this thread down. It's gotten ridiculous. They've shut other threads down for less.

The people who don't like dogs will imagine/suggest dogs going to restaurants and doing all sorts of unsavory things, from behavior to elimination, and have the restaurants losing patrons and profits by having to move tables farther apart. (Which doesn't happen in European countries--tables are much closer together than in US, and dogs either fit or stay away.)

The people who do like dogs will take the opposite view, as I just did. Each side wants the last word.

Time for the moderator to have the last word.