Concealed Weapons Permit Course

[villavillager]

I just completed my concealed weapons course for the state of Florida. I looked into several different courses and finally decided upon Paul "Mac" McIntyre who runs The Right Training. It was an eight hour course for the inexperienced shooter. Over six hours in the classroom and about an hour at the range followed by a test back at the classroom. I learned a great deal. There are courses for the experienced and inexperienced. Courses for women only taught by a female instructor. Anyone you would be vaguely interested should check out the website The RightTraining.co

I was so impressed the the entire process I felt compelled to let others of the great course that was available to those who were interested.

[buggyone]

Glad that you found a good class and instructor for your concealed carry permit. That is very important.

Could you enlighten all the readers on what inspired you to get a concealed carry permit and if you feel the need to carry a pistol in The Villages at any time?

[manaboutown]

Perhaps this is why.

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

[blueash]

I must admit I feel better knowing that six hours of classroom and about an hour at a range "qualifies" an inexperienced person to get a concealed weapon permit.

[Serenoa]

Perhaps this is why.

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

"Guns Save Lives", that's the title of the article that you linked. Yet we constantly hear from the NRA & their loyal followers that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Ok, so guns can save lives, but they can't take lives? How exactly does that work?

I'm confused. Please explain.

[graciegirl]

I don't have a gun and don't want one.

There are many that say I am safe only because they do own a gun and live here near me.

I know this subject is a hornets nest.

The only people I knew growing up who owned guns were hunters.

It is only since moving here that I met anyone who felt they needed a gun for other uses.

[Golfingnut]

I grew up on a farm where loaded guns were a way of life.
I spent 22 years in the Army where guns were a way of life.


I now live in The Villages with lots of older, slower thinking seniors that if they carry a loaded gun:

You could end that sentence with a lot of words, but none would be very nice to say on TOTV.

[Serenoa]

I don't have a gun and don't want one.

There are many that say I am safe only because they do own a gun and live here near me.

I know this subject is a hornets nest.

The only people I knew growing up who owned guns were hunters.

It is only since moving here that I met anyone who felt they needed a gun for other uses.

you have actually had someone in TV say THAT to you? Were you able to keep a straight face?

[Heartnsoul]

I just completed my concealed weapons course for the state of Florida. I looked into several different courses and finally decided upon Paul "Mac" McIntyre who runs The Right Training. It was an eight hour course for the inexperienced shooter. Over six hours in the classroom and about an hour at the range followed by a test back at the classroom. I learned a great deal. There are courses for the experienced and inexperienced. Courses for women only taught by a female instructor. Anyone you would be vaguely interested should check out the website The RightTraining.co

I was so impressed the the entire process I felt compelled to let others of the great course that was available to those who were interested.

No need to explain WHY Most of us know why so glad my son who lives in Boston had his gun on him the day they could not find the terrorist!! What if he had been in his home. congratulations!!! Check out the villages gun club. great club

[Heartnsoul]

I just completed my concealed weapons course for the state of Florida. I looked into several different courses and finally decided upon Paul "Mac" McIntyre who runs The Right Training. It was an eight hour course for the inexperienced shooter. Over six hours in the classroom and about an hour at the range followed by a test back at the classroom. I learned a great deal. There are courses for the experienced and inexperienced. Courses for women only taught by a female instructor. Anyone you would be vaguely interested should check out the website The RightTraining.co

I was so impressed the the entire process I felt compelled to let others of the great course that was available to those who were interested.

PS ANOTHER GOOD REASON when they post (as they did in NY) who owns and who doesn't own a gun, whose house do you think the criminal will target?? Good job on making a smart decision !!

[graciegirl]

PS ANOTHER GOOD REASON when they post (as they did in NY) who owns and who doesn't own a gun, whose house do you think the criminal will target?? Good job on making a smart decision !!

Well my response to that is that in 73 years I have not personally needed one and no one in my family or circle of friends have needed one and that there is a fine line between being prepared and being over prepared.

I support the right to bear arms so if you think you need them, go right ahead. It's in the Constitution.

I just have tried to avoid living in areas where I think I need a gun to be safe. I still feel that way here in TV.

It takes all kinds and all views to make up this world.

If and when I think I need a gun, I will get one and learn how to use it.

But for now, I'm good.

[leenie24]

I lived in NYC for my entire life before moving to TV. In my entire lifetime there, I never knew anyone who had guns or carried one around with them. For many years NYC had it's problems with crime - the 60's through the 80's. It was considered by many as a dangerous place to live (although I never felt that way). Even with all that, no one I knew ever felt he need to carry a gun. We just do not have that mentality. I was shocked :shocked: when I first learned that here in Florida people walked around carrying concealed weapons. I must say that information gave me a moment of pause. I felt unsafe with the thought of people sitting around in the squares in the evening drinking alcohol and carrying guns. I got over it though. I still do not like the idea but I rarely think about it anymore.

I am sure that the individuals who feel the need to carry a gun would not understand my views on this, just as I do not understand their need to carry a gun.

[billethkid]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Heartnsoul]

Well my response to that is that in 73 years I have not personally needed one and no one in my family or circle of friends have needed one and that there is a fine line between being prepared and being over prepared.

I support the right to bear arms so if you think you need them, go right ahead. It's in the Constitution.

I just have tried to avoid living in areas where I think I need a gun to be safe. I still feel that way here in TV.

It takes all kinds and all views to make up this world.

If and when I think I need a gun, I will get one and learn how to use it.

But for now, I'm good.

hi gracie i understand if you don't feel you need one. We all make our own decisions. I carry mine when I'm outside the villages ever since the movie theater shootings. I'd rather be safe than sorry. and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry. We live in a new world now. It's not the same and I think everyone is intelligent to know that.

[graciegirl]

hi gracie i understand if you don't feel you need one. We all make our own decisions. I carry mine when I'm outside the villages ever since the movie theater shootings. I'd rather be safe than sorry. and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry. We live in a new world now. It's not the same and I think everyone is intelligent to know that.

okey dokey

[Mack184]

A question about Florida law regarding this thread. IF you purchase a handgun for home protection or to take to a range and shoot but DO NOT intend to carry it around with you do you need a CCW permit?

[looneycat]

I lived in NYC for my entire life before moving to TV. In my entire lifetime there, I never knew anyone who had guns or carried one around with them. For many years NYC had it's problems with crime - the 60's through the 80's. It was considered by many as a dangerous place to live (although I never felt that way). Even with all that, no one I knew ever felt he need to carry a gun. We just do not have that mentality. I was shocked :shocked: when I first learned that here in Florida people walked around carrying concealed weapons. I must say that information gave me a moment of pause. I felt unsafe with the thought of people sitting around in the squares in the evening drinking alcohol and carrying guns. I got over it though. I still do not like the idea but I rarely think about it anymore.

I am sure that the individuals who feel the need to carry a gun would not understand my views on this, just as I do not understand their need to carry a gun.

I too grew up in NYC where you had to be pretty oblivious to NOT realize that you were constantly walking amongst armed people. Since it was and is difficult to get a CCW in NYC, most people did not discuss or admit to concealed weapons as what they were doing was taking an illegal risk to protect themselves against possible attack!
I don't necessarily agree with that but I see no harm in having a ccw...I do, that doesn't mean I carry a weapon in the Villages...you have a driver's license, do you stay in your car?

[looneycat]

A question about Florida law regarding this thread. IF you purchase a handgun for home protection or to take to a range and shoot but DO NOT intend to carry it around with you do you need a CCW permit?

no you dont need a CCW for those uses. You would transport it unloaded in a case locked in a safe position.

[Mack184]

I lived in NYC for my entire life before moving to TV. In my entire lifetime there, I never knew anyone who had guns or carried one around with them. For many years NYC had it's problems with crime - the 60's through the 80's. It was considered by many as a dangerous place to live (although I never felt that way). Even with all that, no one I knew ever felt he need to carry a gun. We just do not have that mentality. I was shocked :shocked: when I first learned that here in Florida people walked around carrying concealed weapons. I must say that information gave me a moment of pause. I felt unsafe with the thought of people sitting around in the squares in the evening drinking alcohol and carrying guns. I got over it though. I still do not like the idea but I rarely think about it anymore.

I am sure that the individuals who feel the need to carry a gun would not understand my views on this, just as I do not understand their need to carry a gun.
I lived un Upstate NY a good part of my life. To be fair..getting a CCW permit anywhere in NYS practically requires an act of God. It's not easy to get one, so even if you felt the NEED to carry one, it's very hard to get the permit in the first place.

[JoeC1947]

Here we go again, the OP was offering some good advice on obtaining a CCW permit. he did the research and told us about it. Isn't that what this site is about, the exchange of ideas and information? Instead he gets flamed. Thank you villavillager for your post. You can also look into the local gun club, here is a link Cool Gun Club (http://www.ldcollett.com/).

One last thing, I rather see someone take the time to be trained on gun safety then just go to a shop, buy a gun and not take training.

I am a lot more afraid of seniors with cars than with guns.

[manaboutown]

__________

[JoeC1947]

A question about Florida law regarding this thread. IF you purchase a handgun for home protection or to take to a range and shoot but DO NOT intend to carry it around with you do you need a CCW permit?

Not a good idea. You should always get training if you wish to own a firearm but to answer your question, no you do not need a CCW permit.

[Serenoa]

hi gracie i understand if you don't feel you need one. We all make our own decisions. I carry mine when I'm outside the villages ever since the movie theater shootings. I'd rather be safe than sorry. and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry. We live in a new world now. It's not the same and I think everyone is intelligent to know that.

I'd prefer to choose my seat in the NO CCW section, thank you very much. The absolute last place I would want to be is right next to someone engaged in a gunfight.

I realize we live in a new world now. Unfortunately it's a world filled with guns, and I still believe I'm better off without one.

[Heartnsoul]

A question about Florida law regarding this thread. IF you purchase a handgun for home protection or to take to a range and shoot but DO NOT intend to carry it around with you do you need a CCW permit?

This is where the gun club that meets in the villages is very helpful. They meet first Friday night of month. They can answer all your questions as there are many rules and regulations on gun carry.

[manaboutown]

Here we go again, the OP was offering some good advice on obtaining a CCW permit. he did the research and told us about it. Isn't that what this site is about, the exchange of ideas and information? Instead he gets flamed. Thank you villavillager for your post. You can also look into the local gun club, here is a link Cool Gun Club (http://www.ldcollett.com/).

One last thing, I rather see someone take the time to be trained on gun safety then just go to a shop, buy a gun and not take training.

I am a lot more afraid of seniors with cars than with guns.

I am also more afraid of seniors with cars than with guns and there are a lot more of them!

[Heartnsoul]

I'd prefer to choose my seat in the NO CCW section, thank you very much. The absolute last place I would want to be is right next to someone engaged in a gunfight.

I realize we live in a new world now. Unfortunately it's a world filled with guns, and I still believe I'm better off without one.

Good luck when the "sick" one or terrorist comes in and starts shooting. Maybe you can "pray or ask them not to shoot you. We live in a new world and when people stop trying to pretend we don't and wake up, maybe we can change it, IF not too late. I'll take my chances and protect my family or die trying if I have to before I give in.

[buggyone]

There have been many replies but no post from the OP of whom I asked, "Could you enlighten all the readers on what inspired you to get a concealed carry permit and if you feel the need to carry a pistol in The Villages at any time?"

This was not flaming by any means but merely a question. If a person legally wants to own a gun or CCW, that is their right to do so. I only was trying to figure out why anyone would feel the need to carry a pistol in The Villages at any time.

There were some replies about outside of The Villages. There were some negative feelings about carrying a pistol at the town squares. Naturally, all know that carrying a pistol in a bar or bar area of a restaurant is illegal and will get you carted off by the police.

One poster wrote, "and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry." I would like to reply to that by saying in a very high stress situation like that - in a darkened theater - do you honestly think you would have been able to hit the Colorado shooter in a vulnerable place since he had on body armor? You only would have succeeded in drawing his fire to your area.

[In awe of TV]

One poster wrote, "and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry." I would like to reply to that by saying in a very high stress situation like that - in a darkened theater - do you honestly think you would have been able to hit the Colorado shooter in a vulnerable place since he had on body armor? You only would have succeeded in drawing his fire to your area.

Not if he was dead. There is no body armor for the head.

[Heartnsoul]

I will answer or thought I did because I also have a CCW. I do not feel the need to carry in the villages but WHY would you assume I don't feel the need to carry OUTSIDE the villages?? And I do feel a need to have a gun in the home as seniors can be more of a target than an average person figuring we are defenseless. The world has changed as we all know. No longer can you take for granted you are safe anywhere you go. And like the mother who (thank God had a gun in her home) she protected her kids from being killed. As the burglar broke into her home while she was home ALONE with her kids, she found her gun, hide in the crawl space and the perp ramsacked her home but kept on looking for her. She was on the phone with her husband and 911 at the time. Her husband told her "remember what I taught you" As the perp opened the door and saw her she shoot again and again. If she had not, she may have been raped, her kids killed but thank God she was trained and had her gun. A mom protecting her children. What parent would NOT do that??? And the kicker is she ran out of bullets and he still was NOT dead so limiting our bullets doesn't work. What if there had been TWO PERPS and she ran out of ammo?? Now tell me you would NOT protect your children if in this situation or would you have just thought you could plead with him NOT to hurt you?? That is why we feel the need to carry!! Self - protection in this NEW WORLD we live in. No other reason

[Mack184]

Not a good idea. You should always get training if you wish to own a firearm but to answer your question, no you do not need a CCW permit.
Actually I am well trained in firearms. My father was a life member of the NRA and a gun collector. I was taught respect for guns at an early age. He and my grandfathers all hunted and we all owned long guns. During a couple of summers I spent some time at a camp where I won several awards for competition shooting. I had my hunter's safety class taught by IBM for employees and their families when I was 12.

The reason I asked the question in the first place is that in NYS you can buy a handgun but by legal technicality you cannot even take it out of the store to take home unless you have a CCW permit. That's why I wanted to know what the FL law says.

Finally, I agree with you. If you are going to buy a gun..ANY..gun..you should have adequate training prior to buying one.

[leenie24]

I too grew up in NYC where you had to be pretty oblivious to NOT realize that you were constantly walking amongst armed people. Since it was and is difficult to get a CCW in NYC, most people did not discuss or admit to concealed weapons as what they were doing was taking an illegal risk to protect themselves against possible attack!
I don't necessarily agree with that but I see no harm in having a ccw...I do, that doesn't mean I carry a weapon in the Villages...you have a driver's license, do you stay in your car?

I guess we just traveled in different circles. I am sure that is your reality but it wasn't mine. Like minded people seem to travel together. That being said you are entitled to your opinion.

[Heartnsoul]

FIRST DO NO HARM. THERE IS A PARADOX TO THAT STATEMENT. WHEN YOU KNOW THE FINAL OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE BAD (SUCH AS MOVIE THEATER SHOOTINGS, ETC...) THEN DOING NOTHING WILL CAUSE MORE HARM. (LIKE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE WITH A TERRORIST!!)

GOOD LUCK TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING. FOR MYSELF ( A MOTHER) I CHOOSE TO PROTECT MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN. NO ONE WILL HARM THEM AS LONG AS I'M ALIVE.

GOOD LUCK TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE THE PASSIVE CHOICE. :police:

[Bogie Shooter]

I too grew up in NYC where you had to be pretty oblivious to NOT realize that you were constantly walking amongst armed people. Since it was and is difficult to get a CCW in NYC, most people did not discuss or admit to concealed weapons as what they were doing was taking an illegal risk to protect themselves against possible attack!
I don't necessarily agree with that but I see no harm in having a ccw...I do, that doesn't mean I carry a weapon in the Villages...you have a driver's license, do you stay in your car?

I saw a report on TV that indicated a lot of NY'ers were getting gun permits via the mail from Florida since it is so easy to get on there.

[Heartnsoul]

Nyers have to come down here to get a large big gulp too!!!:cryin2:

[janmcn]

I saw a report on TV that indicated a lot of NY'ers were getting gun permits via the mail from Florida since it is so easy to get on there.

And isn't it comforting to know that no wife-beater, child molester, terrorist, sex offender, or other felon is going to be denied the right to buy a gun by some pesky background check?

Al Queda is advertising to it's members, buy your guns in the USA since there is no background check.

Florida also has the distinction of being a "right to kill" state by virtue of the stand your ground law. Is this a great country or what?

[JoeC1947]

I saw a report on TV that indicated a lot of NY'ers were getting gun permits via the mail from Florida since it is so easy to get on there.

Can you explain your statement? Even if you have a FL out of state CCW permit you still cannot carry in NY.

[JoeC1947]

And isn't it comforting to know that no wife-beater, child molester, terrorist, sex offender, or other felon is going to be denied the right to buy a gun by some pesky background check?

Al Queda is advertising to it's members, buy your guns in the USA since there is no background check.

Florida also has the distinction of being a "right to kill" state by virtue of the stand your ground law. Is this a great country or what?

Where did you read about Al Qaeda's advertisement? I don't really expect an answer and yes, this IS a great country.

There is a background check done when you buy a firearm from a dealer just not a gun show which is something I don't agree with. Background checks should be done whenever or where ever a firearm is purchased IMHO.

[DougB]

Yippie-Kai-yay

[billethkid]

everytime I see the phrase "need to carry in TV" it always reminds me of two things. One is it is a trick question. And secondly the person asking does not understand and most likely will not unsdrerstand or just won't undersatand the concept of concealed carry.

Does a police man need to carry a weapon in TV? By some the answer would be no. If that were the case should they remove their weapon when they are in TV? Or if they are assigned a patrol in TV do not take a weapon in the first place?

Non gun enthusiasts and especially anti gun advocates do not have the ability to understand. Doesn't mean they are wrong....they are just not able to, hence they tend to intellectualize the subject.

As presented many many times before, think of it as insurance. Some buy it, some don't. Some buy a lot and some a little. Some cover everything and others just need the basic coverages. There is no way to convince any one of them for the decision they made regarding whether to insure, how much to insure and where to insure. Based on some statistics for some incidents there is no need for insurance but folks still buy it.....JUST IN CASE.

JUST IN CASE......JUST IN CASE .....the very reason law enforcement carries a weapon regardless where they are......the very same reason some choose to carry a concealed weapon....If one cannot grasp or acknowledge that premise/concept.....all the jawboning is a waste of time.

It would do well for some to go take the Concelaed weapons course to do nothing more than gain an understanding of all that is taught about carrying a weapon.

I do like the one post above about the more dangerous residents being the ones behind the wheel here in TV....so very right and so much more potentially dangerous to us all than those with a CCWP.

Wait a minute.....:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:....OK now I am set!!

btk

[twinklesweep]

I just completed my concealed weapons course for the state of Florida. I looked into several different courses and finally decided upon Paul "Mac" McIntyre who runs The Right Training. It was an eight hour course for the inexperienced shooter. Over six hours in the classroom and about an hour at the range followed by a test back at the classroom. I learned a great deal. There are courses for the experienced and inexperienced. Courses for women only taught by a female instructor. Anyone you would be vaguely interested should check out the website The RightTraining.co

I was so impressed the the entire process I felt compelled to let others of the great course that was available to those who were interested.

Since there seems to be two “sides” in this thread, I suspect that I will not be able to get accurate answers to these questions—from either side—including from the recommended website. However, these are questions that I am left with, which are only in relation to the instructional program and based only on this OP, not any of the “debate” that follows:

1. Does a six-hour classroom course plus an hour on the range (presumably practicing shooting) followed by an exam qualify an “inexperienced shooter” to actually be in a position where he or she might need (or “feel the need”) to use a concealed weapon?

2. What are the differences between a course for an “inexperienced shooter” and one for an “experienced shooter”? Is the first course longer in classroom time than the second? What is the experienced shooter learning that the inexperienced shooter is not? And since what the experienced shooter is learning must be valuable, then why not simply have one course so that everyone prepared to use a concealed weapon learns the same things?

3. Why are “courses for women only taught by a female instructor”? Are there gender differences in the instruction or in the application of what is taught? If so, what are they?

[Mack184]

Since there seems to be two “sides” in this thread, I suspect that I will not be able to get accurate answers to these questions—from either side—including from the recommended website. However, these are questions that I am left with, which are only in relation to the instructional program and based only on this OP, not any of the “debate” that follows:

1. Does a six-hour classroom course plus an hour on the range (presumably practicing shooting) followed by an exam qualify an “inexperienced shooter” to actually be in a position where he or she might need (or “feel the need”) to use a concealed weapon?
This is about the same amount of classroom time and "test" time for someone to get their first driver's license. Does this mean that he or she is in a position to operate a car????????????

[blueash]

One poster wrote, "and if your in the theater and a shooting does occur you'd probably rather be sitting next to me than those who don't believe in carry." I would like to reply to that by saying in a very high stress situation like that - in a darkened theater - do you honestly think you would have been able to hit the Colorado shooter in a vulnerable place since he had on body armor? You only would have succeeded in drawing his fire to your area.

Not if he was dead. There is no body armor for the head.

yes, and keep in mind the OP did have one entire hour of training on the shooting range to get his permit. Note that all the cops and military in Boston fired all those shots and didn't manage to kill the younger brother. There is also the story told by the chief of police that they didn't kill the older brother either, that he was in fact run over by his sibling driving away. Either way, cops and soldiers miss a lot more than they hit. Good luck with your head shot in a darkened theater or on the square.

[buggyone]

yes, and keep in mind the OP did have one entire hour of training on the shooting range to get his permit. Note that all the cops and military in Boston fired all those shots and didn't manage to kill the younger brother. There is also the story told by the chief of police that they didn't kill the older brother either, that he was in fact run over by his sibling driving away. Either way, cops and soldiers miss a lot more than they hit. Good luck with your head shot in a darkened theater or on the square.

Thank you for being observent. That was the point I was trying to make. I think the Colorado shooter had a rifle. Anyone with a CCW would have a pistol and making a head shot with a pistol from a distance and in a darkened theater AND in a high stress (person shooting at you; people screaming; people running around) situation would be almost impossible.

Someone shooting back with a pistol in that situation would have a far more likely chance of hitting a bystander than the head shot on the bad guy.

[buggyone]

In the 3+ years I have been living in The Villages, there was only ONE incident of gun violence. That was a domestic shooting and BOTH were retired police officers. It did not leave their house.

There were two other separate incidents of men with concealed weapon permits who were arrested after displaying their pistols in a threatening manner to someone for taking a parking space. These resulted in arrests and charges of Assault With A Deadly Weapon. I am sure the legal fees and fines (maybe jail time) were well worth the parking space.

Does anyone else know of anymore gun violence incidents in The Villages where it would be necessary to tote a gun in The Villages?

[gustavo]

And isn't it comforting to know that no wife-beater, child molester, terrorist, sex offender, or other felon is going to be denied the right to buy a gun by some pesky background check?

Al Queda is advertising to it's members, buy your guns in the USA since there is no background check.

Florida also has the distinction of being a "right to kill" state by virtue of the stand your ground law. Is this a great country or what?

Yes it is!!!

[gustavo]

In the 3+ years I have been living in The Villages, there was only ONE incident of gun violence. That was a domestic shooting and BOTH were retired police officers. It did not leave their house.

There were two other separate incidents of men with concealed weapon permits who were arrested after displaying their pistols in a threatening manner to someone for taking a parking space. These resulted in arrests and charges of Assault With A Deadly Weapon. I am sure the legal fees and fines (maybe jail time) were well worth the parking space.

Does anyone else know of anymore gun violence incidents in The Villages where it would be necessary to tote a gun in The Villages?

I haven't seen any houses burned down in my neighborhood lately, so maybe I should cancel my fire insurance.

[rubicon]

Well what I have learned from viewing TOTV ,that the following subjects really hit a nerve guns, dog poop, old people driving cars/carts, young people driving cars/carts, slow golf carts, fast golf carts, round-a-abouts, dogs at the square, dogs in restaurants. Gosh isn't living in TV exciting.

Owning a gun is a personal choice. Yet I noticed during a review of the posts the same people who argue against gun ownership are the same ones that have argued that abortion is a personal choice. Hmmmmmmmmm

BTK got it right. I have never owned a gun and only shot one, once, in order to get through boot camp.

However, because of the push by some to limit my Second Amendment rights I have been seriously considering going to the gun club in Leesbug to buy a gun and learn how to use it. In addition to the Second Amendment issue what changed my mind I want one "just in case as BTK pointed out. The police are slow to respond and the FBI missed big time with those guys from Boston.

As for how many bullets actually hit their target my response would be how many of those bad guys will hang around long enough to find out

By the way its tomato.

[eremite06]

yes, and keep in mind the OP did have one entire hour of training on the shooting range to get his permit. Note that all the cops and military in Boston fired all those shots and didn't manage to kill the younger brother. There is also the story told by the chief of police that they didn't kill the older brother either, that he was in fact run over by his sibling driving away. Either way, cops and soldiers miss a lot more than they hit. Good luck with your head shot in a darkened theater or on the square.

Are you kidding? The older sibling died of lead poisoning. He had so many GSW's they were too numerous to count. And the younger one got away because he drove away in the dark. He, too, was shot numerous times.

[eremite06]

OK, let's split hairs. Either way these two were going down.

[manaboutown]

Perhaps backgrounds checks should be necessary for pressure cooker purchasers since they can be used to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.

[Mack184]

Perhaps backgrounds checks should be necessary for pressure cooker purchasers since they can be used to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.
I'm sure at least one person is already thinking about that one.

[Biker Dog]

I have a CCW Permit in Pennsylvania, what must I do to get one in Florida? It mine tranferable from Pennsylvania? What does it cost?

[Shimpy]

I have a CCW Permit in Pennsylvania, what must I do to get one in Florida? It mine tranferable from Pennsylvania? What does it cost?

Florida has a reciprocal agreement with states that issue Concealed Weapon Permits. I'd just keep your Penn. license active or apply for one here.

[JoeC1947]

Run over by brother.

He just didn't have enough time to die from the gun shot wounds.

[Ron1Z]

I am an active law enforcement officer, and carry off duty often, as many of us do. I have been in the villages 5 times and do not carry. However when I leave the Villages I carry again. I am sure that TV has many retired law enforcement officers that carry as needed. Just my opinion.

[blueash]

OK, let's split hairs. Either way these two were going down.

No it is not splitting hairs. It speaks volumes about the ability of incredibly highly trained good guy with a gun, far more trained than anyone who needed a six hour course to get his carry license, to stop a bad guy with a gun. They didn't succeed in killing the suspects with what apparently were hundreds of shots. NYC cops in a massive shootout near the Empire State Bldg succeeded in hitting 9 civilians in addition to the suspect who was standing still only a few feet from the cops. The point I am making is that extremely well trained personnel miss a whole lot. The minimally trained 70 year old in a highly chaotic situation is not going to do nearly as well as the cops and soldiers. I am troubled by the contention that if only there had been bunched of armed civilians all unloading their weapons in the theater in Colorado all would be well. Far more likely they would have had a horrific circular firing squad shooting at each other and potentially increasing the carnage.

[gustavo]

No it is not splitting hairs. It speaks volumes about the ability of incredibly highly trained good guy with a gun, far more trained than anyone who needed a six hour course to get his carry license, to stop a bad guy with a gun. They didn't succeed in killing the suspects with what apparently were hundreds of shots. NYC cops in a massive shootout near the Empire State Bldg succeeded in hitting 9 civilians in addition to the suspect. The point I am making is that extremely well trained personnel miss a whole lot. The minimally trained 70 year old in a highly chaotic situation is not going to do nearly as well as the cops and soldiers. I am troubled by the contention that if only there had been bunched of armed civilians all unloading their weapons in the theater in Colorado all would be well. Far more likely they would have had a horrific circular firing squad shooting at each other and potentially increasing the carnage.

This is why magazine limits are not a good idea.

[Justjac]

everytime I see the phrase "need to carry in TV" it always reminds me of two things. One is it is a trick question. And secondly the person asking does not understand and most likely will not unsdrerstand or just won't undersatand the concept of concealed carry.

Does a police man need to carry a weapon in TV? By some the answer would be no. If that were the case should they remove their weapon when they are in TV? Or if they are assigned a patrol in TV do not take a weapon in the first place?

Non gun enthusiasts and especially anti gun advocates do not have the ability to understand. Doesn't mean they are wrong....they are just not able to, hence they tend to intellectualize the subject.

As presented many many times before, think of it as insurance. Some buy it, some don't. Some buy a lot and some a little. Some cover everything and others just need the basic coverages. There is no way to convince any one of them for the decision they made regarding whether to insure, how much to insure and where to insure. Based on some statistics for some incidents there is no need for insurance but folks still buy it.....JUST IN CASE.

JUST IN CASE......JUST IN CASE .....the very reason law enforcement carries a weapon regardless where they are......the very same reason some choose to carry a concealed weapon....If one cannot grasp or acknowledge that premise/concept.....all the jawboning is a waste of time.

It would do well for some to go take the Concelaed weapons course to do nothing more than gain an understanding of all that is taught about carrying a weapon.

I do like the one post above about the more dangerous residents being the ones behind the wheel here in TV....so very right and so much more potentially dangerous to us all than those with a CCWP.

Wait a minute.....:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:....OK now I am set!!

btk
Excellent post, Billethkid!

JUST EXCELLENT! Thanks for sharing....

[eremite06]

This is why magazine limits are not a good idea.

:agree: Collateral damage, unfortunately, is a fact of life or death, as it may. In the heat of the moment could you do any better than the LEO's?

All you "armchair quarterbacks" just sit back and judge the results of these gunfights. Let's put your life in the line of fire for a civil servant's pay and see how you react.

BTW, I've had my FL. CCW permit for 26 yrs.

[OnTrack]

I'm thinking about carrying in TV, just in case I get attacked......by a big dog in a restaurant.


:D


.

[billethkid]

while there is no comparison to hitting the target....you must also allow for the very positive and impressive impact of a perpetrator hearing a gun shot or a near miss......it does affect his attitude about his now changed environment......yes even if he has much more fire power and capability. Even the bad guys do not like being shot at!!!!

A comment on the 5 or 6 or 8 hour class for weapons permits. There is an expectation that one will either have or as a result of the class seek training. The much more important aspect of the course is all about conveying an understanding of what it means to fire a gun in a public situation. What are the laws and how they apply to a shooter. It opens one's thinking about what happens to a bullet that leaves the gun....where does it go....what if you miss....what if you hit or kill somebody. It defines deadly force.....what constitutes a concealed weapon (especially for those who erroneously think it automatically means a gun!!!!).

There is a lot gained in that 8 hours and very understandable why the actual shooting is the least amount of time allocated. For these reasons I recommend even those who do not intend to get a permit or shoot a gun to attend. Then and ONLY then will you be able to understand what it is all about.

btk

btk

[blueash]

There have been 56 mass shootings in the US since 1989. Not a single time has the shooter been stopped by an armed civilian. ZERO times. We have 310,000,000 guns in the hands of civilians. It has not happened once that that huge cache of weapons has made us safer from a mass killer. Maybe if we just had more guns we'd be safer.

[Biker Dog]

Florida has a reciprocal agreement with states that issue Concealed Weapon Permits. I'd just keep your Penn. license active or apply for one here.
PA Lic expires July of this year, so I guess I better get started. Where do I apply?

[blueash]

PA Lic expires July of this year, so I guess I better get started. Where do I apply?

I find google to be a very useful source for that kind of information. Just type in "where to apply for a florida concealed weapons permit" and you will get your answer. But you knew that, right?

sorry, too snarky and I'm not usually like that.

[Mr. Grampi II]

Wow! A lot of different posts from a a lot of different perspectives. I have a 9 MM Glock at my home in Ohio, to protect my family. I take it to my brothers cabin in Michigan once a year to shoot it, then clean it and put it away. I have never brought it to my home in the Villages and do not intend to.

Owning a gun legally (I had a background check) is a right and privilege and I do not want to see it taken away.

My 23 year old daughter works in a women's health clinic in the ghetto of Detroit (the Cass Corridor). The 3rd most dangerous city in the world. She owns a gun but does not carry.

I go to Juarez Mexico, the 2nd most dangerous city in the world twice a month, I do not carry,you cannot even if you wanted to.

Why would I need to carry a gun in the Villages, or Leesburg or Ocala for that matter?

I do not want a guy with a CCW setting next to me in the theater....the Aurora shooter was wear ballistic leggins, chest protector, throat protector and a ballistic helmet.... body armor head to toe. Do you want to be setting next to the guy that fires on him?

Some one mentioned this in the context of insurance, just in case....Do we carry condoms "just in case" some 21 year old we meet in the square wants to hook up with an old guy....

I think the chance of this hookup happening and needing your weapon in or near the Villages have the same probability.

I think the average person (senior or otherwise) carrying a concealed weapon poses much more of a danger to society and the chance of running into him much higher than is running into real trouble and needing a weapon. George Zimmerman is a good example of that.

Own a gun for sport, recreation or home protection but leave it at home. Leave the police work to the police. Who are underpaid in my opinion....

I respect the opinions of all that have posted here and I hope you respect mine. I do not want to see our lawfully obtained guns taken away, I am not anti gun or a bleeding heart, I just do not want to be part of the problem...

Time to put on the flame retardant suit....

[OnTrack]

Wow! A lot of different posts from a a lot of different perspectives. I have a 9 MM Glock at my home in Ohio, to protect my family. I take it to my brothers cabin in Michigan once a year to shoot it, then clean it and put it away. I have never brought it to my home in the Villages and do not intend to.

Owning a gun legally (I had a background check) is a right and privilege and I do not want to see it taken away.

My 23 year old daughter works in a women's health clinic in the ghetto of Detroit (the Cass Corridor). The 3rd most dangerous city in the world. She owns a gun but does not carry.

I go to Juarez Mexico, the 2nd most dangerous city in the world twice a month, I do not carry,you cannot even if you wanted to.

Why would I need to carry a gun in the Villages, or Leesburg or Ocala for that matter?

I do not want a guy with a CCW setting next to me in the theater....the Aurora shooter was wear ballistic leggins, chest protector, throat protector and a ballistic helmet.... body armor head to toe. Do you want to be setting next to the guy that fires on him?

Some one mentioned this in the context of insurance, just in case....Do we carry condoms "just in case" some 21 year old we meet in the square wants to hook up with an old guy....

I think the chance of this hookup happening and needing your weapon in or near the Villages have the same probability.

I think the average person (senior or otherwise) carrying a concealed weapon poses much more of a danger to society and the chance of running into him much higher than is running into real trouble and needing a weapon. George Zimmerman is a good example of that.

Own a gun for sport, recreation or home protection but leave it at home. Leave the police work to the police. Who are underpaid in my opinion....

I respect the opinions of all that have posted here and I hope you respect mine. I do not want to see our lawfully obtained guns taken away, I am not anti gun or a bleeding heart, I just do not want to be part of the problem...

Time to put on the flame retardant suit....

A well written, balanced and common sense post. :thumbup:

I think only trouble can come from someone who starts drinking at noon, gets mad at anyone who passes them on a golf cart, fancies himself as John Wayne........and is carrying to boot. :oops:

.

[buggyone]

A well written, balanced and common sense post. :thumbup:

I think only trouble can come from someone who starts drinking at noon, gets mad at anyone who passes them on a golf cart, fancies himself as John Wayne........and is carrying to boot. :oops:

.

Wow, On Track, you really are on track with this posting. Excellent job!

[wendyquat]

There have been 56 mass shootings in the US since 1989. Not a single time has the shooter been stopped by an armed civilian. ZERO times. We have 310,000,000 guns in the hands of civilians. It has not happened once that that huge cache of weapons has made us safer from a mass killer. Maybe if we just had more guns we'd be safer.

You aren't going to stop "mass shooters" from getting guns. For some reason they don't care much about laws! Therefore, I'd think the best was to protect those that might be victims of mass shooters by having armed guards! Wish it weren't so but I feel it would be the only possible deterrent!

[Bill32]

There have been 56 mass shootings in the US since 1989. Not a single time has the shooter been stopped by an armed civilian. ZERO times. We have 310,000,000 guns in the hands of civilians. It has not happened once that that huge cache of weapons has made us safer from a mass killer. Maybe if we just had more guns we'd be safer.

I haven't researched these 56 " mass shootings" but I would wager most of them were in a " gun free zone " or a location where it's very difficult to get a carry permit, no??


I'm not sure the intent of a CCW holder is to keep YOU safer, certainly not mine or my wifes...........it's for us, no offence intended..

People talk about gun battles.... I'm thinking 3 to 5 feet in front of me and only and hopefully as a deterrent! If I have no other choice and my wife, children or grandchildren are threatened with grave bodily harm I'll shoot!

As far as practicing your weapon only once , obviously you would be better shooting more and practicing ( with weapon unloaded) taking it from your concealed location.

My wife and I enjoy going to the range and shooting. My wife can put 5 holes in a torso target at 20 feet in 10 seconds...

Licensing.........difficult in NYS almost impossible in NYC. I had to give up my NYS licence when I became a Florida resident. My Florida permit isn't valid in NY anywhere.

Carrying in the Villages.........rather than leave it home in the safe its easier to drop it in my pocket sometimes.

Not many people know we carry and It's better that way

if you're a timid person by nature and uneasy around guns we understand, no problem with that. Most permit holders don't announce the fact that they're armed so you wouldn't know.

Hey, try it you might like it......you don't have own you can rent a gun at the range

so much more to say but many peoples minds and feelings are set in stone and won't be changed for others that are interested, like the OP, there is plenty of FACTUAL information around to help you, ask, read, clubs etc.

[buggyone]

A poster replied, "Carrying in the Villages.........rather than leave it home in the safe its easier to drop it in my pocket sometimes."

The poster just said it is easier to carry the pistol in The Villages rather than to put it in his safe. I hope he realizes it is a felony to go into a bar or bar area of a restaurant with that pistol in his pocket. If someone gets an (accidental) look at the concealed pistol in the bar area and calls the police (and I would), that means a felony charge and big time legal fees and trouble.

I cannot understand the mindset of someone who believes it is necessary to carry a pistol in The Villages.

[JoeC1947]

A poster replied, "Carrying in the Villages.........rather than leave it home in the safe its easier to drop it in my pocket sometimes."

The poster just said it is easier to carry the pistol in The Villages rather than to put it in his safe. I hope he realizes it is a felony to go into a bar or bar area of a restaurant with that pistol in his pocket. If someone gets an (accidental) look at the concealed pistol in the bar area and calls the police (and I would), that means a felony charge and big time legal fees and trouble.

I cannot understand the mindset of someone who believes it is necessary to carry a pistol in The Villages.

A law biding CCW permit owner would not carry in a bar, that would make him/her a criminal and criminals should not be allowed to own guns, it would be your duty to report that person. But, as someone said in a dog thread, she would take her dog anywhere it was legally OK to do so and not care what others thought. I feel the same way about guns. Not too long ago two thugs tried to rob an internet casino and were stopped by a legal CCW permit holder, who knows how that could have turned out if it weren't for him.

[billethkid]

A poster replied, "Carrying in the Villages.........rather than leave it home in the safe its easier to drop it in my pocket sometimes."

The poster just said it is easier to carry the pistol in The Villages rather than to put it in his safe. I hope he realizes it is a felony to go into a bar or bar area of a restaurant with that pistol in his pocket. If someone gets an (accidental) look at the concealed pistol in the bar area and calls the police (and I would), that means a felony charge and big time legal fees and trouble.

I cannot understand the mindset of someone who believes it is necessary to carry a pistol in The Villages.

That is not where he said he would go, but a negative (my opinion) illustration created to make a point. No permitted gun owner would do what the illustration suggests!!!!

"accidental look" another illustration to make a point. A permitted gun owner who is carrying does so as the permit implies CONCEALED.

btk

[buggyone]

" But, as someone said in a dog thread, she would take her dog anywhere it was legally OK to do so and not care what others thought. I feel the same way about guns. Not too long ago two thugs tried to rob an internet casino and were stopped by a legal CCW permit holder, who knows how that could have turned out if it weren't for him."

I agree with you if someone takes a gun where it is legal to do so.

The Internet casino incident could have been tragic as the citizen began to shoot at the robbers INSIDE the casino. Luckily, no one was hit - not even a robber. The citizen then continued to fire shots at the robbers even after they had left the casino. They no longer presented a danger to the citizen. He was very lucky not to have been charged with reckless endangerment.

[asianthree]

I thought the post from the OP was just letting people know that he thought the class was very good....does it mean anybody has to take it ....no.....its your choice

[PennBF]

Regardless whether or not one feels a need to carry a weapon and the other does not is really not the important factor. The important point is that the Constitution (Amend#2) provides for the right for every citizen to own a gun and I am totally in favor of the Constitution. The drafter's of the Consititution had a protection of the citizens against "threats" where ever they came from as their focus. To believe we should be left without any form of protection against aggression is against the wishes of the writers of the Constitution. I for one want the right to protect myself and family and to have a gun if I so wish. I do belong to the NRA only as a means to protest those that think we should be restrained from he possibility to protect ourselves. I hope I never have to use one but if necessary I don't want anyone to say i can't protect those that rely on me.::sad:

[blueash]

I haven't researched these 56 " mass shootings" but I would wager most of them were in a " gun free zone " or a location where it's very difficult to get a carry permit, no??.

And to answer your question... No they were not increased in "gun free zones" although that myth is commonly spread by the gun lobby. A few did include schools, eg Columbine, but in all cases of school shootings there is evidence the school was targeted not because it was gun free ( and it is important to recall there was an armed officer in the building and another nearby both of whom were unsuccessful in hitting the killers) but rather because the killer had a grudge against the school much like a fired employee attacks his former place of work. Even the murder at the Sikh temple doesn't qualify as that facility was not gun free under state law.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/gun-free-zones-mass-shootings

As to your second question whether these slaughters occur in areas where it is difficult to get a carry permit.. I don't know your definition of difficult but the killings seem to be distributed fairly similarly to the population of the country. The entire data is available at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data
Keep in mind as you look at the data that the laws on carry may have differed years ago.

[blueash]

You aren't going to stop "mass shooters" from getting guns. For some reason they don't care much about laws! Therefore, I'd think the best was to protect those that might be victims of mass shooters by having armed guards! Wish it weren't so but I feel it would be the only possible deterrent!

Aren't you tired of the old argument that we don't need laws because the villains don't care about laws? It is transparently wrong. The logical conclusion would be we therefore need no laws, just perhaps suggestions and appeals to our better instincts.

Armed guards may have deterred some attacks that we don't know about because they didn't happen but there are no cases where an armed guard succeeded in stopping an attack which was happening. There was an armed guard at Columbine and a second officer who arrived at the scene before any students were slaughtered.

Please look at how Australia, a country still somewhat in its own wild west phase, handled the issue of trying to stop mass killings and as a side benefit reduced suicides and non-mass homicides as well. It worked unbelievably well.
http://tobacco.health.usyd.edu.au/assets/pdfs/Other-Research/2006InjuryPrevent.pdf

: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm omicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm
homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.
Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the
same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides

[twinklesweep]

This is about the same amount of classroom time and "test" time for someone to get their first driver's license. Does this mean that he or she is in a position to operate a car????????????

This was my question, and as far as this answer goes, I don't know. I come from a large farm family, and my parents insisted on months of practice time before we were allowed to take our driver's license test. I guess a few hours plus passing an exam would be enough if one "owned" the roads, but would it be enough in a crazy, stressful driving situation with lots of factors? I know someone who in spite of decades of driving experience got caught in what defensive driving instructors call a "collision trap" that also involved bad weather and poor visibility and was killed. The question is if carrying a concealed weapon--just having the permit and carrying it--is similar to carrying a driver's license--just having the license and carrying it. I don't know.




2. What are the differences between a course for an “inexperienced shooter” and one for an “experienced shooter”? Is the first course longer in classroom time than the second? What is the experienced shooter learning that the inexperienced shooter is not? And since what the experienced shooter is learning must be valuable, then why not simply have one course so that everyone prepared to use a concealed weapon learns the same things?

3. Why are “courses for women only taught by a female instructor”? Are there gender differences in the instruction or in the application of what is taught? If so, what are they?

Can anyone answer my other questions?


There were two other separate incidents of men with concealed weapon permits who were arrested after displaying their pistols in a threatening manner to someone for taking a parking space. These resulted in arrests and charges of Assault With A Deadly Weapon. I am sure the legal fees and fines (maybe jail time) were well worth the parking space.

A parking space?! Is this a joke, or at least an exaggeration? If it's not, then it really can be serious.


I haven't seen any houses burned down in my neighborhood lately, so maybe I should cancel my fire insurance.

Is there any solid info out there about how many homeowners don't carry insurance? Having a mortgage requires it, I think, but how many others say that with the odds so slim, why spend so much each year (especially those living on the edge who might have to choose between a homeowners insurance policy that they've never used and, say, badly needed medical care or prescription meds)? Florida is the lightning capital of the country, yet very few people (to my knowledge, anyway) have a lightning rod system.


Owning a gun is a personal choice. Yet I noticed during a review of the posts the same people who argue against gun ownership are the same ones that have argued that abortion is a personal choice.

Of course owning a gun is a personal choice. I don't get the impression that anyone is "arguing" against someone else owning a gun, since it is legally permitted. Instead they're saying that THEY don't wish to own a gun. I didn't notice a connection between these people and abortion being a personal choice, but remembering an unrelated thread I did notice a connection between being pro-concealed weapons and opposition to health care for all Americans.

Speaking of abortion (not to hijack the topic), it seems to me that there is a difference between "pro-life" and "anti-abortion," just as there is a difference between "pro-abortion" (must say that I have NEVER known anyone to be "pro-abortion" other than for oneself as a personal, legally permitted choice) and "pro-choice."


Perhaps backgrounds checks should be necessary for pressure cooker purchasers since they can be used to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.

Is this also a joke, or is it sarcasm?


It speaks volumes about the ability of incredibly highly trained good guy with a gun, far more trained than anyone who needed a six hour course to get his carry license, to stop a bad guy with a gun.... The minimally trained 70 year old in a highly chaotic situation is not going to do nearly as well as the cops and soldiers.

This is the very concern that prompted my initial question about the required training seeming so little before people can not just carry but actually use a concealed weapon based on their own judgments stemming from the little training they've had. Should this be a concern, or is it a non-issue in light of the law allowing it?


A comment on the 5 or 6 or 8 hour class for weapons permits. There is an expectation that one will either have or as a result of the class seek training. The much more important aspect of the course is all about conveying an understanding of what it means to fire a gun in a public situation. What are the laws and how they apply to a shooter. It opens one's thinking about what happens to a bullet that leaves the gun....where does it go....what if you miss....what if you hit or kill somebody. It defines deadly force.....what constitutes a concealed weapon (especially for those who erroneously think it automatically means a gun!!!!).

There is a lot gained in that 8 hours and very understandable why the actual shooting is the least amount of time allocated. For these reasons I recommend even those who do not intend to get a permit or shoot a gun to attend. Then and ONLY then will you be able to understand what it is all about.

This makes sense. It also speaks worlds about how very, very serious (life-and-death serious!) this all is, not some casual thing about carrying a concealed weapon. I really hope that "parking spot incident" was a joke. We grew up as a hunting family (and it was for food, not sport), and although there were firearms in the house (all inherited from grandparents and earlier) and all us kids had to take a course in firearm safety, our hunting was ONLY with bow and arrow. There were personal family reasons for this, and though some might laugh at this, we were taught to quietly apologize to the animal for having killed it and thank it for providing us with food. Not quite the same thing, though, as a law permitting the carrying of a concealed weapon.


I think only trouble can come from someone who starts drinking at noon, gets mad at anyone who passes them on a golf cart, fancies himself as John Wayne........and is carrying to boot.

I would like to think that this too is a joke. I'm still thinking of that parking spot and how it was handled, again assuming that wasn't a joke.


If you're a timid person by nature and uneasy around guns we understand, no problem with that. Most permit holders don't announce the fact that they're armed so you wouldn't know.

Do people feel there is a connection between being a "timid person by nature" and those who are "uneasy around guns," whatever their reasons? "Timid" people might take comfort in carrying a concealed weapon; maybe it would give them self-assurance or serve some other purpose. However, the word "most" in the next sentence about not openly saying that they're armed implies that there are some who do the opposite, and this could explain why some feel "uneasy around guns."


This is no easy subject, and as I say, I now have more questions than answers. But we are a nation of laws, so we must remember that (like abortion mentioned in an earlier posting) we are obliged to respect the laws, including this one.

[blueash]

One of the men that subdued the Colorado shooter had a CCW and said he would have shot if he had to.

Not at all sure where you got that piece of information as you didn't cite a source. Everything I have seen is that he was not subdued but was arrested standing alone next to his car in the parking lot. If there really was a person in the theater with a CCW who was prepared to take out Holmes, how much longer was he going to wait?

Aurora officers describe arresting James Holmes (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/08/james-holmes-aurora-hearing/1816875/)

Aurora police officer Jason Oviatt arrested Holmes a few minutes later, after finding him outside, standing with his hands on top of his car. Oviatt said Holmes was "completely compliant" when told to surrender. Oviatt, though, said that when he first spotted Holmes, he thought he was a fellow officer because he was dressed in full body armor and wore a gas mask and helmet.

"He was just standing there not doing anything, not urgent about anything," Oviatt testified

[blueash]

Quote:
One of the heroes who helped take down the Arizona assassin said Monday he was prepared to shoot the murderous maniac himself.
"I was ready to end his life," Joe Zamudio said. "I had my hand on the butt of my gun. If they hadn't grabbed him and he was still moving, I would have shot him."
Without hesitation?
"Damn right," said Zamudio. "This is my country, this is my town."


Let us set the complete record straight here. Perhaps had Mr Zamudio fired his gun you might have your only actual example of a CCW carrier stopping a mass murder, however, here is the full story as opposed to the snippet that was printed in Mr Murdoch's newspaper:

Armed hero nearly shot wrong man in Ariz. - Slate.com | NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41018893/ns/slate_com/t/armed-giffords-hero-nearly-shot-wrong-man/#.UXasQrWG2So)

"I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!'"
But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.
Zamudio agreed:
"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter], holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky."

In other words we have a brave man who ran to help and also had a gun. His ownership of the gun did not result in any benefit to the situation and very nearly resulted in the death of more innocents. Really lucky.

[EdV]

PA Lic expires July of this year, so I guess I better get started. Where do I apply?

If you are no longer a resident of PA, your PA license is not valid in FL, so don’t carry until you get a FL CW license.

[blueash]

Question for my 2nd amendment friends. If you believe that the second amendment gives you the right to keep and bear arms without governmental infringement, which is the essence of the phrase, what governmental infringements on arms do you believe are Constitutionally acceptable? You cannot get a CCW license in Florida without a class, with a few narrow exceptions. How is that legal. Where in the Constitution does it say bear arms after taking a class? How about bazookas or Sherman tanks? What is the interpretation of the amendment that says limit A, magazine size or AR-16, is an unconstitutional infringement, but limit B on nuclear weapons and ricin and machine guns is not an infringement? Is this all just about where the line should be drawn or do you believe somehow that the framers had specific arms in mind when they wrote that phrase?

[NoMoSno]

Can anyone answer my other questions?

Paul can give you your answers, more accurately.

The Right Training (http://www.therighttraining.com/)

[EdV]

Question for my 2nd amendment friends. If you believe that the second amendment gives you the right to keep and bear arms without governmental infringement.....

The second amendment doesn’t give, grant, convey, or provide anything.

Hence the foundation for your (and the anti-gun advocates) misunderstanding of the fundamental issue.

[buggyone]

In reply to Tinklesweep asking if it was a joke:

"A resident was in his car on Canal Street waiting for a vehicle to leave a parking space. A man came up from the vehicle behind him, became verbally aggressive and showed he had a handgun. The man with the gun faces aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, without intent to kill, bond was $7000. This was reported in the Daily Sun 12/23/2010."

I wish it was a joke but there are some unhinged folks out there.

[janmcn]

In reply to Tinklesweep asking if it was a joke:

"A resident was in his car on Canal Street waiting for a vehicle to leave a parking space. A man came up from the vehicle behind him, became verbally aggressive and showed he had a handgun. The man with the gun faces aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, without intent to kill, bond was $7000. This was reported in the Daily Sun 12/23/2010."

I wish it was a joke but there are some unhinged folks out there.

And it's only going to get worse with more and more armed and loaded seniors walking around with early Alzheimer's or other dementia related diseases.

[blueash]

The second amendment doesn’t give, grant, convey, or provide anything.

Hence the foundation for your (and the anti-gun advocates) misunderstanding of the fundamental issue.

I'm listening awaiting a more informative response. I really am interested in what you could mean by this one. What is the "fundamental issue" and what does the second amendment have to say about it if anything of importance.

[blueash]

My mistake, I meant Arizona, not Colorado, but my link was at the end of the quoted text.

thank you for that correction. I attempted to deal with the quoted text from the NY Post in post #85. The report in that paper omitted some important details that interestingly were recorded on Fox and Friends which is also owned by Mr. Murdoch.

[JoeC1947]

" But, as someone said in a dog thread, she would take her dog anywhere it was legally OK to do so and not care what others thought. I feel the same way about guns. Not too long ago two thugs tried to rob an internet casino and were stopped by a legal CCW permit holder, who knows how that could have turned out if it weren't for him."

I agree with you if someone takes a gun where it is legal to do so.

The Internet casino incident could have been tragic as the citizen began to shoot at the robbers INSIDE the casino. Luckily, no one was hit - not even a robber. The citizen then continued to fire shots at the robbers even after they had left the casino. They no longer presented a danger to the citizen. He was very lucky not to have been charged with reckless endangerment.

That is incorrect. Both robbers were shot and no charges were filed against the very brave man.

Here is a quote.

Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.

Both posted bail and were released.

Williams has a concealed weapons permit. Bill Gladson of the Marion County state attorney's office says the shooting appears justified.

SO I ask, where did you get your information from?

[billethkid]

isolated incidents do not a case make nor is it worthy of discussion as a general indicator of anything except.....there are wackos and idiots in ANY group. And with the current technology it is oh so easy to find an isolated example of almost anything anybody needs to make their point.

Let's talk about the 99% of gun owners that every day of the year do so responsibly!!!

This thread is going the way of all gun and gun related subjects....the proverbial merry go round.

I am going to sit back and watch and chuckle :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::)

btk

[rubicon]

This was my question, and as far as this answer goes, I don't know. I come from a large farm family, and my parents insisted on months of practice time before we were allowed to take our driver's license test. I guess a few hours plus passing an exam would be enough if one "owned" the roads, but would it be enough in a crazy, stressful driving situation with lots of factors? I know someone who in spite of decades of driving experience got caught in what defensive driving instructors call a "collision trap" that also involved bad weather and poor visibility and was killed. The question is if carrying a concealed weapon--just having the permit and carrying it--is similar to carrying a driver's license--just having the license and carrying it. I don't know.




Can anyone answer my other questions?




A parking space?! Is this a joke, or at least an exaggeration? If it's not, then it really can be serious.




Is there any solid info out there about how many homeowners don't carry insurance? Having a mortgage requires it, I think, but how many others say that with the odds so slim, why spend so much each year (especially those living on the edge who might have to choose between a homeowners insurance policy that they've never used and, say, badly needed medical care or prescription meds)? Florida is the lightning capital of the country, yet very few people (to my knowledge, anyway) have a lightning rod system.




Of course owning a gun is a personal choice. I don't get the impression that anyone is "arguing" against someone else owning a gun, since it is legally permitted. Instead they're saying that THEY don't wish to own a gun. I didn't notice a connection between these people and abortion being a personal choice, but remembering an unrelated thread I did notice a connection between being pro-concealed weapons and opposition to health care for all Americans.

Speaking of abortion (not to hijack the topic), it seems to me that there is a difference between "pro-life" and "anti-abortion," just as there is a difference between "pro-abortion" (must say that I have NEVER known anyone to be "pro-abortion" other than for oneself as a personal, legally permitted choice) and "pro-choice."




Is this also a joke, or is it sarcasm?




This is the very concern that prompted my initial question about the required training seeming so little before people can not just carry but actually use a concealed weapon based on their own judgments stemming from the little training they've had. Should this be a concern, or is it a non-issue in light of the law allowing it?




This makes sense. It also speaks worlds about how very, very serious (life-and-death serious!) this all is, not some casual thing about carrying a concealed weapon. I really hope that "parking spot incident" was a joke. We grew up as a hunting family (and it was for food, not sport), and although there were firearms in the house (all inherited from grandparents and earlier) and all us kids had to take a course in firearm safety, our hunting was ONLY with bow and arrow. There were personal family reasons for this, and though some might laugh at this, we were taught to quietly apologize to the animal for having killed it and thank it for providing us with food. Not quite the same thing, though, as a law permitting the carrying of a concealed weapon.




I would like to think that this too is a joke. I'm still thinking of that parking spot and how it was handled, again assuming that wasn't a joke.




Do people feel there is a connection between being a "timid person by nature" and those who are "uneasy around guns," whatever their reasons? "Timid" people might take comfort in carrying a concealed weapon; maybe it would give them self-assurance or serve some other purpose. However, the word "most" in the next sentence about not openly saying that they're armed implies that there are some who do the opposite, and this could explain why some feel "uneasy around guns."


This is no easy subject, and as I say, I now have more questions than answers. But we are a nation of laws, so we must remember that (like abortion mentioned in an earlier posting) we are obliged to respect the laws, including this one.

2excited::2excited:

[EdV]

I'm listening awaiting a more informative response. I really am interested in what you could mean by this one. What is the "fundamental issue" and what does the second amendment have to say about it if anything of importance.

By your own words: “If you believe that the second amendment gives you the right to keep and bear arms without governmental infringement, which is the essence of the phrase….” you were showing your fundamental misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment.

The 2nd Amendment: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Where in that simple declaration do you see any words such as give, grant, etc. You don't, and you won’t find it anywhere else in the constitution either. So given that, exactly where did that right that this amendment seeks to protect, come from?

[blueash]

You have a CCW holder that assessed the situation before pulling the trigger. I venture to guess that was part of the training he received. Had the shooter been standing and firing into the crowd, The CCW holder would have been prepared. That's more than can be said for the sheeple that were being shot at and had no chance to defend themselves.
Remember the Long Island commuter train shooting? A prime example of sheeple.

And the people, or as you derogatorily call them sheeple, who actually did take down the shooter were all unarmed. Lots of people without guns in their pants will go toward danger, see Boston Marathon for example. And FYI the CCW holder in Arizona had exactly zero "training" which you would have known had you read the link I provided.

"When Zamudio was asked what kind of weapons training he'd had, he answered: "My father raised me around guns … so I'm really comfortable with them. But I've never been in the military or had any professional training. I just reacted."

[blueash]

By your own words: “If you believe that the second amendment gives you the right to keep and bear arms without governmental infringement, which is the essence of the phrase….” you were showing your fundamental misunderstanding of the 2nd amendment.

The 2nd Amendment: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

Where in that simple declaration do you see any words such as give, grant, etc. You don't, and you won’t find it anywhere else in the constitution either. So given that, exactly where did that right that this amendment seeks to protect, come from?

No I don't see those words. Nor do I see them in any other of the amendments. You are making the argument, if I read your post correctly, that you have a natural right to bear arms and the sole purpose of the amendments is to assure that the federal government does not take them away. And by your interpretation, it would therefore have been natural that all races would have the vote, and all sexes, and in fact all ages. It would allow individual states to have governmental endorsement of religions and to prohibit a free press and assembly. Your argument was held by some in the late 1800's and that logic led to a SCOTUS decision that upheld the rights of the states to do nearly anything they pleased. The Klan loved it. I am not making it up, please read about the case United States v. Cruikshank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank)

You are making the "tenther" argument. For those interested in that belief, start with Repeal of the 2nd Amendment would not Abolish any Right – Tenth Amendment Center (http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/12/27/repeal-of-the-second-amendment-would-not-abolish-any-right/)
then google tenther and see what else follows from the interpretation of the constitution given by EdV

Ironically, this same bad decision, which has been mostly overturned, also is the one which allowed the states to enact whatever gun control including complete prohibition of possession. Keep in mind that if the second amendment and all the others only limit the powers of the federal government that leaves the states and localities to do whatever they please, including regulate guns, and prohibit civil rights enforcement, and nullify whatever Federal regulations and laws they believe do not fit in the narrowest definition of powers given the US government.

[billethkid]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[EdV]

Whoa Dude, cool your jets. Have you ever tried decaf?

[Moderator]

The thread has strayed far off from the originally posted topic and is now closed.

Moderator