the condom access program

[Heartnsoul]

now between the ages of 12 (Twelve) and 19 in Calif you can now get FREE condoms. Is this good or Does this help corrupt minors? Who should be making decisions for you child, you or the state? Can a 12 yr old decide? Federally funded program. 12 yr olds with condoms and 15 yr olds with "morning after pill" Are we heading in right direction with our children?
Is a 12 yr old a woman or a child? 12 yr olds can't drive but yet are encouraged to stock up on condoms. Is this sending a signal to children that sex is good at this young age. Is 12 too young or should it be 15 or 18? Just throwing out some Thought provoking decisions being made for our children. Again the morals in our country. Are we going down the right road?

[njbchbum]

seems to me that the new plan b pill policy compliments the condom access policy and provides a back-up to the possibility of condom failure! am not sure - but i don't think cali is the only state with such a policy.

this country lost most of its morals years ago, in mho. and look at the folks who are legislating such behavior - the folks who did not have that protection when they were kids - they were the kids who were afraid of what their parents would say about an unplanned pregnancy and that they might hafta get married because of it! does that remind you of anyone?

[blueash]

Romeo was 15-16 and Juliet 13. And that was at a time in history when menarche likely occurred in mid-adolescence. The idea of early teens having sex is not new and was likely the norm through much of human history. Either we accept the consequences with no effort to ameliorate the STD's and pregnancies because we wish it weren't so or you face the truth that sexual activity is going on with or without your consent and attempt to lessen the consequences. There is overwhelming data that giving teens the knowledge of how to prevent disease and pregnancy does NOT increase the likelihood of their becoming sexually active. At the same time evidence shows that education and access does reduce, although not as much as I might wish, the likelihood of STD's and pregnancies.

You are not throwing out the correct questions. Here is a more accurate one: Your 13 year old has decided to have sex. Do you wish it were easy for her to prevent disease and pregnancy knowing that those risks are not going to stop her from having sex?

[Heartnsoul]

I of course believe in prevention just like everyone else. However, aren't we sending children the wrong messages "if the candy is FREE"?? I believe we should live in a society where we allow kids to be kids and not ENCOURAGE them to have sex by giving out Free condoms or pills. I don't envy the parents today but just hope they get involved in the kids schools and know what is really going on.

[OnTrack]

Romeo was 15-16 and Juliet 13. And that was at a time in history when menarche likely occurred in mid-adolescence. The idea of early teens having sex is not new and was likely the norm through much of human history. Either we accept the consequences with no effort to ameliorate the STD's and pregnancies because we wish it weren't so or you face the truth that sexual activity is going on with or without your consent and attempt to lessen the consequences. There is overwhelming data that giving teens the knowledge of how to prevent disease and pregnancy does NOT increase the likelihood of their becoming sexually active. At the same time evidence shows that education and access does reduce, although not as much as I might wish, the likelihood of STD's and pregnancies.

You are not throwing out the correct questions. Here is a more accurate one: Your 13 year old has decided to have sex. Do you wish it were easy for her to prevent disease and pregnancy knowing that those risks are not going to stop her from having sex?

Excellent post.

Nothing I can add, that you haven't already stated very clearly. :thumbup:

.

[jblum315]

I of course believe in prevention just like everyone else. However, aren't we sending children the wrong messages "if the candy is FREE"?? I believe we should live in a society where we allow kids to be kids and not ENCOURAGE them to have sex by giving out Free condoms or pills. I don't envy the parents today but just hope they get involved in the kids schools and know what is really going on.

Comparing free condoms to free candy is not a very apt comparison. For as long as I can remember there have been vending machines in restrooms where you could put in coins and get condoms, whether you were 21 or 12.
Same as candy. They weren't free but they were available

[Golfingnut]

Romeo was 15-16 and Juliet 13. And that was at a time in history when menarche likely occurred in mid-adolescence. The idea of early teens having sex is not new and was likely the norm through much of human history. Either we accept the consequences with no effort to ameliorate the STD's and pregnancies because we wish it weren't so or you face the truth that sexual activity is going on with or without your consent and attempt to lessen the consequences. There is overwhelming data that giving teens the knowledge of how to prevent disease and pregnancy does NOT increase the likelihood of their becoming sexually active. At the same time evidence shows that education and access does reduce, although not as much as I might wish, the likelihood of STD's and pregnancies.

You are not throwing out the correct questions. Here is a more accurate one: Your 13 year old has decided to have sex. Do you wish it were easy for her to prevent disease and pregnancy knowing that those risks are not going to stop her from having sex?
:bowdown::agree:

[blueash]

I of course believe in prevention just like everyone else. However, aren't we sending children the wrong messages "if the candy is FREE"?? I believe we should live in a society where we allow kids to be kids and not ENCOURAGE them to have sex by giving out Free condoms or pills. I don't envy the parents today but just hope they get involved in the kids schools and know what is really going on.

I'll try to be clearer. Giving out condoms and teaching their proper use does NOT encourage them to have sex. There are facts available in well done studies to substantiate that statement. I invite you to read the studies.\


Link (http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.84.12.1952)

Objectives. This study assessed relationships between condom availability programs accompanied by community discussion and involvement and adolescent sexual practices.
Methods. Sexual practice and condom use differences were assessed in a representative sample of 4166 adolescents enrolled in high schools with and without condom availability programs.
Results. Adolescents in schools where condoms were available were more likely to receive condom use instruction and less likely to report lifetime or recent sexual intercourse. Sexually active adolescents in those schools were twice as likely to use condoms, but less likely to use other contraceptive methods, during their most recent sexual encounter.

Conclusions. The strategy of making condoms available, an indication of socioenvironmental support for condom use, may improve HIV prevention practices.



link (http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.84.12.1952)

OBJECTIVES. Opponents of condom availability programs argue that the promotion and distribution of condoms increases adolescent sexual activity. This assertion was tested empirically with data from the evaluation of a human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) prevention program for Latino adolescents. METHODS. The onset of sexual activity, changes in the frequency of sex, and changes in the proportion of respondents with multiple partners were compared for intervention and comparison groups. Multivariate regression analysis was used to assess the effect of the intervention on these outcomes after adjustment for baseline differences between the intervention and comparison groups. RESULTS. Male respondents in the intervention city were less likely than those in the comparison city to initiate first sexual activity (odds ratio [OR] = 0.08). Female respondents in the intervention city were less likely to have multiple partners (OR = 0.06). The program promoting and distributing condoms had no effect on the onset of sexual activity for females, the chances of multiple partners for males, or the frequency of sex for either males or females. CONCLUSIONS. An HIV prevention program that included the promotion and distribution of condoms did not increase sexual activity among the adolescents in this study.


Link (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552116#.UYf0u_vD_mI)

Because most youth are enrolled in school for many years before they initiate sex and when they initiate sex, schools have the potential for reducing adolescent sexual risk‐taking. This paper reviews studies which examine the impact upon sexual risk‐taking of school involvement, school characteristics, specific programs in school that do not address sexual behavior, and specific programs that do address sexual risk‐taking. Multiple studies support several conclusions. First, involvement in and attachment to school and plans to attend higher education are all related to less sexual risk‐taking and lower pregnancy rates. Second, students in schools with manifestations of poverty and disorganization are more likely to become pregnant. Third, some school programs specifically designed to increase attachment to school or reduce school dropout effectively delayed sex or reduced pregnancy rate, even when they may not address sexuality. Fourth, sex and HIV education programs do not increase sexual behavior, and some programs decrease sexual activity and increase condom or contraceptive use. Fifth, school‐based clinics and school condom‐availability programs do not increase sexual activity, and either may or may not increase condom or contraceptive use. Other studies reveal that there is very broad support for comprehensive sex‐and HIV‐education programs, and accordingly, most youth receive some amount of sex or HIV education. However, important topics are not covered in many schools.


More references available

[Golfingnut]

A great reference post BLUEASH. Facts are so positive and drive out fear and supersition.

[Heartnsoul]

We are talking about 12 year old CHILDREN here NOT even teenagers.

[OnTrack]

A great reference post BLUEASH. Agreed!



Facts are so positive and drive out fear and supersition.

One would hope so.

Alas, that often isn't the case.


.

[Bavarian]

Thirteen year old females are girls, not women. Making Plan B available will make it harder for good girls to resists demands for sex from teenage boys. Using birth control does not stop STDs. Using CONDMs is not perfect. Consumer Reports tested them and found defects, holes, etc. The ones PP put out were the worst.

Remember in earlier times, life expectancy was much lower, 30 years at time of Romeo and Juliet, so early sex was normal.

When SS was started, average life expectancy was 65.

[billethkid]

my old fashioned, like it the way it was before "EVERYTHING" became OK and before don't dare hurt any class or group's feelings and before permissiveness trumped discipline........

they are girls....not women....they are kids......

Once again we are catering to the few and adversly affecting the many in the process.

The majority loses another one......AGAIN:mad::censored:

btk

[Golfingnut]

my old fashioned, like it the way it was before "EVERYTHING" became OK and before don't dare hurt any class or group's feelings and before permissiveness trumped discipline........

they are girls....not women....they are kids......

Once again we are catering to the few and adversly affecting the many in the process.

The majority loses another one......AGAIN:mad::censored:

btk

Your right, but just think how good it makes some folks feel that IT IS NOT LIKE THE GOOD OLE DAYS, i.e. Minorities, gays, lesbians, short people, fat people, mentaly and phsycaly handicapped, athiests, nerds, and on and on. I believe in an all inclusive world. Its time for the good ole boys and good ole days to come into the now and stop allowing a group that must fit into a narrow box to make the laws and dicision for the entire population. If am a good ole white boy from a farm in Iowa and would be at the top of the heap if everything was like it used to be, but I know in my heart that the way it used to be was not right, not fair, not spiritual, not loving, not understanding.

[OnTrack]

Your right, but just think how good it makes some folks feel that IT IS NOT LIKE THE GOOD OLE DAYS, i.e. Minorities, gays, lesbians, short people, fat people, mentaly and phsycaly handicapped, athiests, nerds, and on and on. I believe in an all inclusive world. Its time for the good ole boys and good ole days to come into the now and stop allowing a group that must fit into a narrow box to make the laws and dicision for the entire population. If am a good ole white boy from a farm in Iowa and would be at the top of the heap if everything was like it used to be, but I know in my heart that the way it used to be was not right, not fair, not spiritual, not loving, not understanding.



GRAND SLAM!!!! :bigbow:



.

[Trish Crocker]

After having been a teenager (do you all remember???) and raising four kids I can say with complete certainty that not allowing them access to condoms will NOT stop them from having sex. It is not the availability of these things that encourage sexuality..it is everything in media today. It cracks me up...you take a 14 year old hormone driven male..put tv shows on that glorify sex, stick up billboards showing more cleavage than you used to see in a Playboy...play songs that make sex the norm...encourage young women to display their bodies because they have the 'right' to do so and use sex to sell every product known to man...then tell him NOT to have sex. Get real! The thing that stopped most of us was not the absence of condoms..it was respect for ourselves and the fact that we viewed sex as something more important than it is viewed today. I would not want to be a teen in this day and age.

[Trish Crocker]

Thirteen year old females are girls, not women. Making Plan B available will make it harder for good girls to resists demands for sex from teenage boys. Using birth control does not stop STDs. Using CONDMs is not perfect. Consumer Reports tested them and found defects, holes, etc. The ones PP put out were the worst.

Remember in earlier times, life expectancy was much lower, 30 years at time of Romeo and Juliet, so early sex was normal.

When SS was started, average life expectancy was 65.

Bavarian, I agree...13 year old females ARE girls..not women but if you have ever worked with teens (ask any junior high school teacher) many of these young girls are being taught by todays society that they can use their 'sexuality' to get attention. I have seen so many young females that are much more agressive and sexually aware than their male counterparts. I don't think that the young men are any less culpable but face it...teen boys can be stupid when the hormones kick in (ask the average guy what their primary thoughts were at age 14) We are not going to stop this..if we can prevent some unwanted pregnancys or STDs then we should.

[missypie]

In the days of Romeo and Juliet, they had to start early in life because they didn't live long.

[Russ_Boston]

All I can say is WOW.

Let me add my 2 c: :)

Having a condom or two in your pocket doesn't mean you're GOING to have sexual intercourse; Not having a condom or two in your pocket doesn't mean you're NOT going to have sexual intercourse; Having a free condom doesn't mean that your parents need to stop teaching!; Not having a condom doesn't mean that other methods of sexual activity are going to happen anyway (or is that ok with you?); Preventing at least 99% of STD's (with the PROPER use of condoms) and unwanted pregnancies isn't a bad thing at any age is it?

Now someone will debate me on my use of 99%. Whatever!

[rubicon]

Well we must be doing a really really good job with all this sex education. I mean teen pregnacies are up STD for teens is up. Schools have decided it is their responsibility and right to teach kids about the birds and bees and the benefits of same sex everything. Movies glamorize sex and make it matter of factly like sex is the same as a hand shake.
gosh since we know kids will have sex we might as well invite them to use our bedrooms at anytime they feel the need. i mean a kid might get bruise doing it in a car.

Apparently the majority believe that whatever a kid decides to do is OK because there going to do it anyway. Hell sit them down at the table and sahre tequila shooters with them why don't you. Geeezzzz

[Golfingnut]

Well we must be doing a really really good job with all this sex education. I mean teen pregnacies are up STD for teens is up. Schools have decided it is their responsibility and right to teach kids about the birds and bees and the benefits of same sex everything. Movies glamorize sex and make it matter of factly like sex is the same as a hand shake.
gosh since we know kids will have sex we might as well invite them to use our bedrooms at anytime they feel the need. i mean a kid might get bruise doing it in a car.

Apparently the majority believe that whatever a kid decides to do is OK because there going to do it anyway. Hell sit them down at the table and sahre tequila shooters with them why don't you. Geeezzzz

There is not enough sex education due to parents not talking about it or allowing it to be taught in school!!!!!!
BECAUSE they are going to do it anyway, with the use of condoms STD's would be down!!!
Old Fashioned thinking from adults keeps the young people from listening to parents!!!!
More sex education in school and sex discussions with the parents would take away the misunderstandings and put accurate information in these young peoples minds. Kids know more about sex today than we do today. Telling them about the stork and other birds and bees fairy tails will not help.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well we must be doing a really really good job with all this sex education. I mean teen pregnacies are up STD for teens is up. Schools have decided it is their responsibility and right to teach kids about the birds and bees and the benefits of same sex everything. Movies glamorize sex and make it matter of factly like sex is the same as a hand shake.
gosh since we know kids will have sex we might as well invite them to use our bedrooms at anytime they feel the need. i mean a kid might get bruise doing it in a car.

Apparently the majority believe that whatever a kid decides to do is OK because there going to do it anyway. Hell sit them down at the table and sahre tequila shooters with them why don't you. Geeezzzz

From the CDC website.
CDC - Teen Pregnancy Home - Reproductive Health (http://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/)

The Importance of Prevention
In 2011, a total of 329,797 babies were born to women aged 15–19 years, for a live birth rate of 31.3 per 1,000 women in this age group.1 This is a record low for U.S. teens in this age group, and a drop of 8% from 2010. Birth rates fell 11% for women aged 15–17 years, and 7% for women aged 18–19 years. While reasons for the declines are not clear, teens seem to be less sexually active, and more of those who are sexually active seem to be using birth control than in previous years.


Snapshot: STDs in the United States, 2011
Chlamydia Cases reported in 2011: 1,412,791 R ate per 100,000 people: 457.6; increase of 8% since 2010 T his rise is most likely due to increased screening, expanded use of more sensitive tests and more complete national reporting

Syphilis (primary and secondary) Cases reported in 2011: 13,970 Rate per 100,000 people: 4.5; unchanged from 2010 T he overall steady trend masks declining infections among women and increases among men, particularly gay and bisexual men

Gonorrhea
Cases reported in 2011: 321,849
R ate per 100,000 people: 104.2; 4% increase since 2010
T hough rates remain at near-historic lows, this is the
second consecutive year of increases

Syphilis (congenital) C ases reported in 2011: 360 Rate per 100,000 live births: 8.5; 7% decrease since 2010 S ince 2008, the rate has decreased by nearly 20 percent

[billethkid]

The kids get their sex education from the movies, television and the Internet.
The permissive age has erased any mystery and of course anything goes!
btk

[rubicon]

From the leading experts comes this non sequitur: You are gonna do it so we might as well hand out condoms. Your are gonna do drugs so we might as well make them legal. You are gonna...........................

I thought the obligation of the adult community was to treat children as if they were a protected species.

I see we shifted greatly from a nation of laws to a nation of rights.

I see parents, teachers ,etc that apparently let the tail wag the dog.

What happened to NO. What happened to concern about the psychological and physical affect of these vices upon one's body and soul.

Who you gonna believe.

The problem with statistics is that they are often manipulatd to fit the story

What happen to good old common sense.

"Beware if you spit at the heavens they will spit back.
Ïf you lie down with dogs you come up with fleas"".................................

A nation is only as strong as the character of its people

I'm worried

[Golfingnut]

From the leading experts comes this non sequitur: You are gonna do it so we might as well hand out condoms. Your are gonna do drugs so we might as well make them legal. You are gonna...........................

I thought the obligation of the adult community was to treat children as if they were a protected species.

I see we shifted greatly from a nation of laws to a nation of rights.

I see parents, teachers ,etc that apparently let the tail wag the dog.

What happened to NO. What happened to concern about the psychological and physical affect of these vices upon one's body and soul.

Who you gonna believe.

The problem with statistics is that they are often manipulatd to fit the story

What happen to good old common sense.

"Beware if you spit at the heavens they will spit back.
Ïf you lie down with dogs you come up with fleas"".................................

A nation is only as strong as the character of its people

I'm worried

What you say sounds like your ways should work, but they do not work in these times, so I say lets drop good old common sense, fear and superstition and give facts and science a try. The good Ole ways are a thing of the past and to try to revive them is fruitless at best. Look to the future.

[billethkid]

From the leading experts comes this non sequitur: You are gonna do it so we might as well hand out condoms. Your are gonna do drugs so we might as well make them legal. You are gonna...........................

I thought the obligation of the adult community was to treat children as if they were a protected species.

I see we shifted greatly from a nation of laws to a nation of rights.

I see parents, teachers ,etc that apparently let the tail wag the dog.

What happened to NO. What happened to concern about the psychological and physical affect of these vices upon one's body and soul.

Who you gonna believe.

The problem with statistics is that they are often manipulatd to fit the story

What happen to good old common sense.

"Beware if you spit at the heavens they will spit back.
Ïf you lie down with dogs you come up with fleas"".................................

A nation is only as strong as the character of its people

I'm worried

Well stated and I believe is the sentiment and concern of the majority of truly responsible/accountable folks. This is not an antagonistic statement but just a statement of opinion regarding the subject of rights VS laws VS permissiveness VS discipline VS authority VS moral values in decline.

btk

[Golfingnut]

Well stated and I believe is the sentiment and concern of the majority of truly responsible/accountable folks. This is not an antagonistic statement but just a statement of opinion regarding the subject of rights VS laws VS permissiveness VS discipline VS authority VS moral values in decline.

btk

BTK, I do respect your opinion, but must disagree. I think too many of the older generation is stuck in THE GOOD OLE DAYS and is not seeking ways to move forward and improve. We have done so many good things in the last 50 years, but in the area of permissive sexual behaver, we are failing because of our old fashioned ways. I don't want the problem left up to the Young teenagers, but also we must not allow old people to make decisions on how to handle this problem. All we get from the older generation is GOD will be angry or WHEN I WAS DATING or comments like that. Young people today look at our generation and laugh because we are so out of touch with reality. We need to talk to them, not try to guilt trip them into our way of doing things. The GOOD OLD DAY ways are the very reason we are loosing the fight. Either change or please step out of the way and let someone else try.

[mickey100]

What you say sounds like your ways should work, but they do not work in these times, so I say lets drop good old common sense, fear and superstition and give facts and science a try. The good Ole ways are a thing of the past and to try to revive them is fruitless at best. Look to the future.

Well said. We are dealing with AIDS, a deadly and incurable disease, something that teens back in our day never had to face. Condoms are the only way to go. Sometimes you have to accept that society has changed and work with what you have. It may not be what you would like, or what existed 50 years ago, but its what we have today, and we need to protect our youth from themselves. We can back up a condom program with education on how to "say no", and hopefully the message will get across, but kids will experiment, and we want them to do it safely.

[asianthree]

My great grandma was 13 when she wed 14 first child my grandmother born at 1pound 12 ounces kept on the door of the stove to stay warm...she was born 1904... Not that I am saying this is good or bad but that was the way of lifestyle how things have changed

[Polar Bear]

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

[billethkid]

BTK, I do respect your opinion, but must disagree. I think too many of the older generation is stuck in THE GOOD OLE DAYS and is not seeking ways to move forward and improve. We have done so many good things in the last 50 years, but in the area of permissive sexual behaver, we are failing because of our old fashioned ways. I don't want the problem left up to the Young teenagers, but also we must not allow old people to make decisions on how to handle this problem. All we get from the older generation is GOD will be angry or WHEN I WAS DATING or comments like that. Young people today look at our generation and laugh because we are so out of touch with reality. We need to talk to them, not try to guilt trip them into our way of doing things. The GOOD OLD DAY ways are the very reason we are loosing the fight. Either change or please step out of the way and let someone else try.

Your opinion is noted, however your counseling or advising that because things are the way they are today we must turn away from core values and beliefs. It is one perspective to have one's own view but to take anothers view and summarily subordinate and or propose dismissing it to suit the current message is pretty presumptuous......step out of the way indeed....

This type of arbitrary posturing has oh such a familiar ring from another day and another forum!!!!

btk

[Golfingnut]

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

You are right for a snap shot in time, but realize, that at one point in history, basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong was very different, so along came the New Testament. That new document changed the playing field a great deal. Now, it is time to change that playing field again. Move into the 21 century and update those: basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong. I mean, if you wish to go back to the good old days or even back to the old testament ways and rules, their is a religion right now that would allow you to do that and it is called radical Islam. When Christianity modified the bible, the Muslims said hell no and to this day claim basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong should not be changed and they have stuck to their principles but I for one do not feel they are applicable today. But, if I did wish to go back to the good ole days, I would say Why not back to the first written word.

[nitehawk]

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

[OnTrack]

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

The sticky wicket comes about.....when defining those "basic principles."

Within our lifetimes, "morality," "integrity" and "right-vs-wrong" included beliefs that women should not work/receive equal pay, minorities were not equal and did not deserve equal rights, interracial marriages should be outlawed, etc., etc.

It's just a shame in my mind, that we all don't believe "basic principles" should include tolerance/acceptance of others different from us.

We actually should be instilling beliefs such as tolerance, treating others how we want to be treated, obeying the law, not hurting others and keeping our noses out of other peoples business that doesn't' affect us.

The really ironic part about all of this, is that even our parents/grandparents were lamenting about the decline of society because of the "younger generation."

Yes folks, they were talking about....YOU. :D


.

[OnTrack]

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

Ooooooh......I like it! :D


.

[Golfingnut]

Your opinion is noted, however your counseling or advising that because things are the way they are today we must turn away from core values and beliefs. It is one perspective to have one's own view but to take anothers view and summarily subordinate and or propose dismissing it to suit the current message is pretty presumptuous......step out of the way indeed....

This type of arbitrary posturing has oh such a familiar ring from another day and another forum!!!!

btk

Sorry you took it that way, I only meant to get across that our children are very important even more so than our personal beliefs and feelings. Please don't feel that you have been dismissed, but rather asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try. Also, I am not counseling, but giving my opinion. If someone has a better one, I would be happy to step aside with you. I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time. In summery, trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen, hence, a waste of time and unfortunately lives.

[billethkid]

"...asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try...."

Stepping aside suggests giving up one's principals, which is not going to happen.

"...I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time...."

Based on what criteria?

"...trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen..."

At no time was it mentioned to revert back to the 50's.....and a conclusion that good old days = old fogeys or something that doesn't work are personal opinions which may well not be general consesus or approval as presented!

"...a waste of time and unfortunately lives...."

it is never a waste of time when efforts are put forth or proposed to make things better.

Some of us refer to the good old days with no particular era or time frame in mind. Only a time when morals and tolerance and discipline were more prominent. Some of us are not objecting to the new "rights", but do strenuously defend the new rights need not degrade core values.

The simple notion that today = OK and yesterday = unacceptable is a single point of data/opinion.

For me this horse is more than dead and is approaching the state of wheel spinning......time to move on (very different from getting out of the way:D).

btk

[Golfingnut]

"...asked to step aside allowing others with Ideas that might work give it a try...."

Stepping aside suggests giving up one's principals, which is not going to happen.

"...I do know that the good old days methods are no longer working nor appropriate to hang onto at this time...."

Based on what criteria?

"...trying to drag kids today into 1950's values is not going to happen..."

At no time was it mentioned to revert back to the 50's.....and a conclusion that good old days = old fogeys or something that doesn't work are personal opinions which may well not be general consesus or approval as presented!

"...a waste of time and unfortunately lives...."

it is never a waste of time when efforts are put forth or proposed to make things better.

Some of us refer to the good old days with no particular era or time frame in mind. Only a time when morals and tolerance and discipline were more prominent. Some of us are not objecting to the new "rights", but do strenuously defend the new rights need not degrade core values.

The simple notion that today = OK and yesterday = unacceptable is a single point of data/opinion.

For me this horse is more than dead and is approaching the state of wheel spinning......time to move on (very different from getting out of the way:D).

btk

I agree BTK, this horse is more than dead, so since we agree on that, lets just drop this conversation and move on. It is obvious that you do not understand what I am trying to convey and GOD knows I do not understand your point of view. I spend a lot of time with my two daughters and my two granddaughters in an attempt to understand the problems they face in todays world and try to relate them to the OLD DAYS like you and I lived. Trust me, they are not the same today as they were, so the GOOD OLD DAYS mentality will not work for this younger generation. But, since you feel further discussion is not productive, I will honor your request and drop it.

[Barefoot]

Like to see a "honest/anonymous" survey of TVs (good old days generation) == how many had sex before marriage and how many would not be married to their present partner if they had used a condom

I went to a small high school back in the day. There were certainly girls that "had" to get married, and others that had illegal abortions. Occasionally a girl would go away to "visit an aunt", which meant they were going to a home for unwed mothers and giving their baby up for adoption. And they were all good girls, who made a mometary bad decision. Much tragedy could have been averted had condoms been easily accessible.

[buggyone]

The condom giveaway programs are truly a good thing to have.

For all of those posters who are against the program, how would they feel if their grandkids failed to use a condom and the result was either an unplanned pregancy or AIDS?

You can talk to the teens and pre-teens until you are blue but there is always that one moment of weakness and your talk is useless.

I think the one poster who tried to politicize this thread by stating the condoms from Planned Parenthood were defective was really comical. :1rotfl:

[rubicon]

Society believes a 12-13 year old can handle the need for a condom, "same sex behavior etc but adults in NYC are being controlled by the food police because they can't handle their own eating and drinking.

This country is just upside down. What's next setting up orgies for kids.

since when have morals, intergrity and ethical behavior become passe'

[Golfingnut]

:shocked:

[createquilts]

We all know that since the beginning of time people have had sex without the benefit of marriage. I have been reading and thinking about this and my opinion has to do with the values of the society our kids are being raised.
Think of all the little things that people today do that kids are exposed to when they are forming their moral codes. Calling in sick if you really aren't sick, driving after having alcohol, driving way above the speed limit, bringing home office supplies (ie stealing), using illegal drugs (even something "harmless" as pot).
How many kids today are being raised by divorced parents who at one point said "till death do us part"? How many are in a home where a parent has had sex without the benefit of marriage? There are lots of people who are living together unmarried with kids in the house. If not in their house, perhaps a relative or a friends parents. And what goes on in the movies or on TV certainly gives you reason to lose your breath. The news today is full of white collar crime as well.

I have plenty of guilt myself to living a life that is not up to the moral code I hold myself to now at my advanced age, and even now I do things at times that I should not. I know I could be a kinder more tolerant person. But it seems to me that before we judge others we all need to have some introspection as to why our society is the way it is today.

[Golfingnut]

The condom giveaway programs are truly a good thing to have.

For all of those posters who are against the program, how would they feel if their grandkids failed to use a condom and the result was either an unplanned pregancy or AIDS?

You can talk to the teens and pre-teens until you are blue but there is always that one moment of weakness and your talk is useless.

I think the one poster who tried to politicize this thread by stating the condoms from Planned Parenthood were defective was really comical. :1rotfl:

Buggyone for president. Simple honest accurate post.
:BigApplause:

[wendyquat]

I don't believe it's just a matter of old fogies preaching "the good old days". I think there's still a large segment of society, both young and old, that believe certain basic principles of integrity, morality, and basic right-vs-wrong still apply.

We have to adapt with the times. But we don't have to give up those principles...they play an enormous role in the direction our society evolves.

I so agree! Wish I'd said that!

[OnTrack]

Society believes a 12-13 year old can handle the need for a condom, "same sex behavior etc but adults in NYC are being controlled by the food police because they can't handle their own eating and drinking.

This country is just upside down. What's next setting up orgies for kids.

since when have morals, intergrity and ethical behavior become passe'

Hey, why did you edit your post and remove the great story of you and your wife knowing each other since she was 13.....and could still honestly wear white to y'alls wedding? :shrug:

I was going to say that stories like that...are great to hear. :thumbup:

I was however, also going to mention that we all have anecdotal stories...that don't necessarily apply to the whole.

I think the earlier post above, that cited actual facts from the CDC showing birth rates being at an all time per-capita low for 15-19 year olds....goes a long way in dispelling the notion that things were always better in the "good old days."

Just my $.02. :)

.

[janmcn]

From what I hear, perhaps someone should be passing out free condoms at Katie Belle's.

[Golfingnut]

I am happy that the majority on here are in favor of both formal sex education for our youth and a means of safe sex for those that do not abstain. Yes, I think abstention is the best thing, but if that is not the case, the misstep should not be a life sentence for a young person.

:BigApplause:

[mickey100]

... Yes, I think abstention is the best thing, but if that is not the case, the misstep should not be a life sentence for a young person.

:BigApplause:

A very wise statement. Thanks for posting. :mademyday:

[janmcn]

Society believes a 12-13 year old can handle the need for a condom, "same sex behavior etc but adults in NYC are being controlled by the food police because they can't handle their own eating and drinking.

This country is just upside down. What's next setting up orgies for kids.

since when have morals, intergrity and ethical behavior become passe'

Perhaps morals, integrity and ethical behavior became passe' when Catholic priests were allowed to molest young boys and the Cardinals covered up for them.

Or perhaps when football coaches were allowed to molest young boys and the universities looked the other way.

Or perhaps when military personnel are allowed to rape and sexually harass young females under their command and get away with it.

This is not America's youth that is failing, these are middle-aged men. How do you explain this outrageous behavior to young people today? Kids don't have to go to R rated movies, all they have to do is watch the evening news.

[OnTrack]

Perhaps morals, integrity and ethical behavior became passe' when Catholic priests were allowed to molest young boys and the Cardinals covered up for them.

Or perhaps when football coaches were allowed to molest young boys and the universities looked the other way.

Or perhaps when military personnel are allowed to rape and sexually harass young females under their command and get away with it.

This is not America's youth that is failing, these are middle-aged men. How do you explain this outrageous behavior to young people today? Kids don't have to go to R rated movies, all they have to do is watch the evening news.

:thumbup: Two thumbs up. :thumbup:


.

[Golfingnut]

Perhaps morals, integrity and ethical behavior became passe' when Catholic priests were allowed to molest young boys and the Cardinals covered up for them.

Or perhaps when football coaches were allowed to molest young boys and the universities looked the other way.

Or perhaps when military personnel are allowed to rape and sexually harass young females under their command and get away with it.

This is not America's youth that is failing, these are middle-aged men. How do you explain this outrageous behavior to young people today? Kids don't have to go to R rated movies, all they have to do is watch the evening news.

:BigApplause:

[GOJODO]

We are talking about 12 year old CHILDREN here NOT even teenagers.

When I was in nursing school,we did a rotation in Public Health (1971). My assignment was Prenatal Teaching to 11 and 12 year olds.

[graciegirl]

The youth that I know are doing a pretty good job. We lived close to our grandchildren growing up and were very involved in their lives.

One of the things that help is having a good family and talking, talking, talking and helping them to find something that they do well so they can shine and find confidence in themselves and don't "fall in love" to get the attention they need, but even with that, the sex urge is powerful and always has been.

This is veering from the issue of condoms.

I think we need to teach the ethics we believe in, and try to adapt to the sea change a little and first of all protect our children by teaching them about what to expect from themselves, and from others, when they become sexually active. There is no moral directions that I know of or any need for any in the programs that schools teach that are directed at understanding sexual behavior and changes. They are scientific facts about how our bodies act.

Children are aware of sexual feelings much younger than we are aware of them being aware if that makes sense.

One of the classes in high school that my grandchildren took involved a baby doll that if you didn't feed it or rock it or show it attention it cried. I don't know how they did it, but you didn't literally feed it or change it but it would make noise if you didn't give it the computer prompts that mimicked those actions. Each teen was given the doll for 24 hours. The interior computer showed if the "baby's" needs were met.

Our granddaughter slept so soundly that the baby cried so loud that everyone else in the house was kept awake. There was a huge lecture in the morning, I remember being told.

Our grandson was up all night with the baby.

The classes that I know of that are taught by the schools I know of have been excellent, but parents can opt them out.

A class on anything is only as good as the teacher. It is a very sensitive area and the schools that I know of understand and support parents exploring the subject matter and how it will be taught and by whom. We had great schools where I taught and they were where our children and grandchildren attended.

In my experience, the class had to have a note from parents to take it.

It is my opinion that someone needs to talk to a child about the subject of human reproduction and sexuality and if the parents want to do it themselves, I support them completely.

Whatever works for each family.

[Russ_Boston]

I think the one poster who tried to politicize this thread by stating the condoms from Planned Parenthood were defective was really comical. :1rotfl:

Sad part is that I think they may have been serious?

[createquilts]

Perhaps morals, integrity and ethical behavior became passe' when Catholic priests were allowed to molest young boys and the Cardinals covered up for them.

Or perhaps when football coaches were allowed to molest young boys and the universities looked the other way.

Or perhaps when military personnel are allowed to rape and sexually harass young females under their command and get away with it.

This is not America's youth that is failing, these are middle-aged men. How do you explain this outrageous behavior to young people today? Kids don't have to go to R rated movies, all they have to do is watch the evening news.

thank you for having the courage to post this.

[Parker]

I agree with janmcn above. Except I have to defend middle-aged men, as there are plenty of women (like teachers seducing young males) who also contribute to the problem. I don't think most men would ever dream of harming youngsters, and who would go to great lengths to protect them.

And no, I'm not a male. I just know a lot of wonderful men who get a bad rap in society these days because of the actions of the bad apples. But for those bad apples, take the gloves off and let them have it!

[Taltarzac725]

Perhaps morals, integrity and ethical behavior became passe' when Catholic priests were allowed to molest young boys and the Cardinals covered up for them.

Or perhaps when football coaches were allowed to molest young boys and the universities looked the other way.

Or perhaps when military personnel are allowed to rape and sexually harass young females under their command and get away with it.

This is not America's youth that is failing, these are middle-aged men. How do you explain this outrageous behavior to young people today? Kids don't have to go to R rated movies, all they have to do is watch the evening news.

I doubt if many teens and preteens pay a huge amount of attention to various scandals going on that are covered by the news unless they are somehow directly or indirectly involved in the matter. There have been any number of sexual, political, financial and criminal incidents that have brought the wrath of the media and popular opinions in the last 100 years or so. There are huge events that certainly have a huge influence on our children like the Vietnam War, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, 9/11, Presidential assassinations, the Newtown massacre, the Boston Marathon bombing which would probably have a lot more influence.

In my experience, it is the peers that have the most influence on preteens and teens. Then the parents, the teachers, and last of all the media have sway. Of course, with social media often being a mix of all of these....

[rubicon]

[QUOTE=OnTrack;672783]Hey, why did you edit your post and remove the great story of you and your wife knowing each other since she was 13.....and could still honestly wear white to y'alls wedding? :shrug:

I was going to say that stories like that...are great to hear. :thumbup:

I was however, also going to mention that we all have anecdotal stories...that don't necessarily apply to the whole.

I think the earlier post above, that cited actual facts from the CDC showing birth rates being at an all time per-capita low for 15-19 year olds....goes a long way in dispelling the notion that things were always better in the "good old days."

Just my $.02. :)

Ontrack: I original posted it to meet nitehawk's challenge but then remembered my wife is a very private person. So out of respect for her privacy I edited a portion of the post. However apparently not before some folks had an opportunity to read it. the story is true

A poster posit that we must make way for new progressive thinking and that avent-garde thinking requires a sexual permissve society ...but then I remembered that one of the reasons Rome fell was because of that very avent-garde thinking that lead it to a cancerous decay of their society.

Why would one encourage such behavior in young people that can only poison theirs minds and spirits?

[Golfingnut]

[QUOTE=OnTrack;672783]Hey, why did you edit your post and remove the great story of you and your wife knowing each other since she was 13.....and could still honestly wear white to y'alls wedding? :shrug:

I was going to say that stories like that...are great to hear. :thumbup:

I was however, also going to mention that we all have anecdotal stories...that don't necessarily apply to the whole.

I think the earlier post above, that cited actual facts from the CDC showing birth rates being at an all time per-capita low for 15-19 year olds....goes a long way in dispelling the notion that things were always better in the "good old days."

Just my $.02. :)

Ontrack: I original posted it to meet nitehawk's challenge but then remembered my wife is a very private person. So out of respect for her privacy I edited a portion of the post. However apparently not before some folks had an opportunity to read it. the story is true

A poster posit that we must make way for new progressive thinking and that avent-garde thinking requires a sexual permissve society ...but then I remembered that one of the reasons Rome fell was because of that very avent-garde thinking that lead it to a cancerous decay of their society.

Why would one encourage such behavior in young people that can only poison theirs minds and spirits?

I feel I should say something here as I have been so vocal on this paticular thread, but ???? I love everyone in The Villages and try to follow the intent rather than the words, but I am baffled with this one. No ill feeling to you and I hope you are well. Love and kisses to everyone and to everyone a good night. Please accept my apology if I drove you in this direction. I am finished with this thread.

[DaleMN]

Sad part is that I think they may have been serious?

They always are. :doh:

[SALYBOW]

If anyone is truly unsure how to access a condom consult Ruus, he is in the medical filed. Sorry Russ.
:a20:

Did I say that???

[OnTrack]

If anyone is truly unsure how to access a condom consult Ruus, he is in the medical filed. Sorry Russ.
:a20:

Did I say that???

If he delivered, he should change his name to..."Firestone."


"Where the rubber meets the road." :D

.

[Russ_Boston]

If anyone is truly unsure how to access a condom consult Ruus, he is in the medical filed. Sorry Russ.
:a20:

Did I say that???

Doubt if my wife would approve the transaction, but I'll ask:)

[buggyone]

now between the ages of 12 (Twelve) and 19 in Calif you can now get FREE condoms. Is this good or Does this help corrupt minors? Who should be making decisions for you child, you or the state? Can a 12 yr old decide? Federally funded program. 12 yr olds with condoms and 15 yr olds with "morning after pill" Are we heading in right direction with our children?
Is a 12 yr old a woman or a child? 12 yr olds can't drive but yet are encouraged to stock up on condoms. Is this sending a signal to children that sex is good at this young age. Is 12 too young or should it be 15 or 18? Just throwing out some Thought provoking decisions being made for our children. Again the morals in our country. Are we going down the right road?

I do have to question the OP's post to some degree. OP mentions this is a program in California in the first sentence and then later in the same paragraph says it is a Federally funded program. Wouldn't a Federally funded program be for all states and not just California? Just wondering if it is a State program.

Are these free condoms being handed out in schools during classtime or at school functions? Do the young people go to a pharmacy or grocery store and get free condoms from the racks?

Before I believe this in it's entirety, I would like to have the full story on it instead of just a snippet. Thanks for the new information you will provide.