Stand Your Ground Law

[gomoho]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???

[Golfingnut]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???
:bigbow: well said. I will stand my ground and I believe if enough do, the need to do so will be reduced. Only the sheep get sheared. Violence needs to be met head on.

[casita37]

The juror that came forward did say they took into account the stand your ground law.

[graciegirl]

I am not a gun person. I am not an NRA person, but according to the second amendment, people have a right to carry a gun if they have a permit. Unless I feel a huge change in my life and surroundings, no one will change my mind that I need a gun.


I have to say this. There aren't so many robberies of tourists since the stand your ground law was passed and when they changed the license plates on rental cars. The bad guys don't know who has a gun. I think because we have in Florida a large percentage of older folks that makes it a little different than most states.

I think what gomoho just said is very thought provoking. I find it hard to respect healthy able bodied people who don't work and be responsible for their children .

[Golfingnut]

I am definitely not a NRA person. I feel they scare people half to death with all there silly conspiracy theories. I have no problem with CCP and every household having a means of protection, but I also feel we need to stiffen gun control laws to keep them out of the hands of criminals. I guess that makes me conservative and liberal at the same time. LOL

[casita37]

For non-Floridians...we used to have our county on our license plate. Rental cars did not have the county. Where we would have had Sumter, they had Lease...jokingly referred to as "Lease County".

That obviously marked the car as tourists, meaning maybe an easier mark. Quite a few years ago the state did away with Lease County. I think it was probably the best change ever!!

Now we all say Sunshine State :).....smile my own!

[janmcn]

The Tampa Bay Times examined 200 "stand your ground" cases and found that the law has worked to free killers, drug dealers and violent attackers whose self-defense claims seem questionable at best. In nearly a third of the cases examined by the Times, defendants initiated the fight - and still went free.

The Times says the most productive way to change Florida's "stand your ground" law to recognize that individuals who initiate confrontations are not then immune from responsibility of the consequences. "The law as it stands is an invitation for more bloodshed and heartache, and a society more divided."

The law has exonerated dozens of people deemed to be legitimately acting in self-defense - and allowed drug dealers to avoid murder charges and gang members to walk free after shootouts.

Check out this comprehensive Times investigation of Florida's "stand your ground" law at tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law.

[ilovetv]

"The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed."


Well, I doubt that Illinois has a "Stand your ground" law, so why then is THIS mess happening and having a blind eye turned to it by all the same people screeching since this media circus in FL:

"There were 67 people shot and 11 killed over the long Independence Day weekend in Chicago. Of the 67, eight were shot, with one killed, in a single Saturday evening attack in the West Side neighborhood of Lawndale."

Chicago Murders Soar: 67 Shot, 11 Killed over July 4 Weekend--So Far (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/07/Chicago-Murders-Soar-67-Shot-11-Killed-over-July-4-Weekend-So-Far)

[DianeM]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???

AMEN. Well said and sad but true.:coolsmiley:

[mfp509]

I AGREE, gomoho!!

[Monkei]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???

Ok what's your plan to educate?

[Bucco]

Ok what's your plan to educate?

Here is an idea.....STOP TALKING and START LISTENING...

to folks like Bill Cosby and his ilk..and there are many, BUT

They cannot get on the stage....the Sharptons, etc talk loud and that is who you and others listen to.

[Monkei]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???

How can stand your ground law not have been part of the trial when the words Stand Your Ground were part of the judges instructions to the jury.

[John_W]

How can stand your ground law not have been part of the trial when the words Stand Your Ground were part of the judges instructions to the jury.

George Zimmerman was a 'self defense' case. He was in a position where he could not exit and he feared for bodily harm, he used his weapon as his only means to fight back. A 'stand your ground' defense means the shooter has an exit but has decided to stand his ground against a hostile person and uses his weapon to defend himself rather than flee.

As far as concealed weapons permits in Florida, I believe there is about 900,000 of those out of 17 million people, so that's about 1 in every 20 citizens. One thing I have noticed about Florida, do you remember any school, theater, mall or workplace mass shootings like we see in other states? Especially states that have stricter laws like Connecticut, Arizona, California, Colorado, etc. I think that most lunatics actually have a plan of action, it's been shown for everyone of them. When they do their planning, they do realize that besides police, that in Florida there may be many other weapons they'll be going up against.

[TrudyM]

Those of us who have had some drunk stick a gun in our faces have a problem with any law that makes it easy for people to have a carry permit.
It is my understanding that Florida is a state that makes it easy to obtain a carry permit, it makes me more than a little scared. I am sure that those of you who are on here would have no trouble getting a carry permit in the states that make it hard to get one.
If I am wrong about the ease of owning a gun and getting a carry permit in Fla please respond as it would make me feel safer.

[Irish Red]

I strongly support "stand your ground." The media and a number of African American activists paint George Zimmermann as a racist who hunted down Treyvon Martin. Perhaps one should take a closer look of the murder rate of black males on black males, which stands at 93.1%. This is very sad and tragic and should be dealt with but it is not. It almost bears the concept that it's acceptable if one black murders another black, but if a white man does it ( one who was protecting himself) it's a hate crime.

[John_W]

Those of us who have had some drunk stick a gun in our faces have a problem with any law that makes it easy for people to have a carry permit.
It is my understanding that Florida is a state that makes it easy to obtain a carry permit, it makes me more than a little scared. I am sure that those of you who are on here would have no trouble getting a carry permit in the states that make it hard to get one.
If I am wrong about the ease of owning a gun and getting a carry permit in Fla please respond as it would make me feel safer.

I have a concealed weapons permit. It's not just handed out to anyone that applies. If you don't have a clean record or a DUI in the last 3 years, then you won't get one. One thing you learn right away, it's for concealed carry. If you flash it in public or even hint that you have one, you will lose it real quick and may even go to jail. It's for self protection and others. You also need gun training beforehand as well. Flashing it around while intoxicated will definitely get you jail time and loss of license.

[ilovetv]

Those of us who have had some drunk stick a gun in our faces have a problem with any law that makes it easy for people to have a carry permit.
It is my understanding that Florida is a state that makes it easy to obtain a carry permit, it makes me more than a little scared. I am sure that those of you who are on here would have no trouble getting a carry permit in the states that make it hard to get one.
If I am wrong about the ease of owning a gun and getting a carry permit in Fla please respond as it would make me feel safer.

The drunk who stuck a gun in your face is exactly the type of criminal who would NEVER apply for a carry permit nor any gun licensing, hence the problem with licensing/registering all guns. Criminals and psychos will ALWAYS get guns.

The people who have CCW permit are the ones who have been checked for criminal background and drunkenness at the level you mentioned. CCW licensed carriers are not the ones not to fear.

Here are disqualifications for a license in the FL application:

"QUESTION 7
If you have been convicted of a felony as described in section 790.23, Florida Statutes, and the felony conviction occurred within the State of Florida, your civil rights and firearm rights must be restored by the Florida Office of Executive Clemency in order to qualify you for a Florida concealed weapon license. Felony convictions occurring in another state require restoration of civil and firearm rights by the state in which the conviction occurred. If you were convicted of a felony under federal law, you must have a presidential pardon or have been granted relief from federal firearm disabilities through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). If your civil rights and firearms rights have not been restored as described above, or if you cannot provide proof of restoration of civil rights and firearms rights, you are not eligible for a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License.

QUESTION 8
If you have had ADJUDICATION OF GUILT WITHHELD OR IMPOSITION OF SENTENCE SUSPENDED ON ANY FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license unless a period of three years has elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled (or the record has been sealed and expunged). If you answer YES to this question, you must submit a copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other court-imposed conditions. Alternatively, you can submit a copy of the court document ordering that the record be sealed and expunged.

QUESTION 9
If you have been FOUND GUILTY OF, HAD ADJUDICATION OF GUILT WITHHELD FOR, OR HAD IMPOSITION OF SENTENCE SUSPENDED FOR ONE OR MORE MISDEMEANOR CRIMES OF VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license unless a period of three years has elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled (or the record has been sealed and expunged). If you answer YES to this question, you must submit a copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other court-imposed conditions. Alternatively, you can submit a copy of the court document ordering that the record be sealed and expunged.

QUESTION 10
If you have been CONVICTED OR FOUND GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license. Owning or possessing a firearm by one who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence is also punishable under federal law §18 USC 922.

A misdemeanor crime of domestic violence includes any misdemeanor conviction or suspended sentence involving the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim. Examples include, but are not limited to, spouse abuse, battery/domestic violence, child abuse, assault, etc. A person shall not be considered to have been convicted if the conviction or suspended sentence has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored (if the law of the convicting state provides for the loss of civil rights upon conviction of such an offense) unless the pardon, expunction, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not possess or receive firearms.

QUESTION 11
If you have been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect that restrains you from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license. The Division will suspend the processing of your application until you submit certified court documents showing that the injunction has been dissolved or dismissed.

QUESTION 12
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if any of the following conditions applies to you: (1) you have been adjudicated incapacitated under section 744.331, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (2) you have been committed to a mental institution in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 394, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (3) you have been adjudicated mentally defective or incompetent in any court. Your eligibility for licensure would be restored only if you had received relief from federal firearms disabilities through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).

QUESTION 13
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if you answer YES to any one of these questions pertaining to committal for controlled substance abuse, committal for alcohol abuse, or DUI conviction DURING THE THREE YEARS PRECEDING THE DATE ON WHICH YOU SUBMITTED YOUR APPLICATION.

QUESTION 14
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for licensure if you are UNDER ARREST OR CURRENTLY CHARGED with any felony, or crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; or any crime of violence, including crimes of domestic violence; or any crime under the provisions of Chapter 893, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state relating to controlled substances. If you choose to submit an application anyway, the Division will suspend the processing of your application until you provide a certified court document indicating the final disposition of your case. If that court document indicates that the case did not result in a conviction or a withholding of adjudication on a disqualifying crime, the suspension will be lifted and the processing of your application will continue. If you are convicted or receive a withhold of adjudication on a disqualifying crime, your application will be denied.

QUESTION 15
The term “fugitive from justice” means any person who has fled from any State to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding. If you answer YES to this question or if the background check reveals that you are a fugitive from justice, the Division will suspend the processing of your application until you submit a certified copy of a court document reflecting the final disposition of your case.

QUESTION 16
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if you were discharged from military service under DISHONORABLE CONDITIONS.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/application_instructions/concealed%20weapon_applicationinstructions.pdf

[janmcn]

I strongly support "stand your ground." The media and a number of African American activists paint George Zimmermann as a racist who hunted down Treyvon Martin. Perhaps one should take a closer look of the murder rate of black males on black males, which stands at 93.1%. This is very sad and tragic and should be dealt with but it is not. It almost bears the concept that it's acceptable if one black murders another black, but if a white man does it ( one who was protecting himself) it's a hate crime.


And 86% of whites are killed by other whites.

[twheel]

The drunk who stuck a gun in your face is exactly the type of criminal who would NEVER apply for a carry permit nor any gun licensing, hence the problem with licensing/registering all guns. Criminals and psychos will ALWAYS get guns.

The people who have CCW permit are the ones who have been checked for criminal background and drunkenness at the level you mentioned. CCW licensed carriers are not the ones not to fear.

Here are disqualifications for a license in the FL application:

"QUESTION 7
If you have been convicted of a felony as described in section 790.23, Florida Statutes, and the felony conviction occurred within the State of Florida, your civil rights and firearm rights must be restored by the Florida Office of Executive Clemency in order to qualify you for a Florida concealed weapon license. Felony convictions occurring in another state require restoration of civil and firearm rights by the state in which the conviction occurred. If you were convicted of a felony under federal law, you must have a presidential pardon or have been granted relief from federal firearm disabilities through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). If your civil rights and firearms rights have not been restored as described above, or if you cannot provide proof of restoration of civil rights and firearms rights, you are not eligible for a Concealed Weapon or Firearm License.

QUESTION 8
If you have had ADJUDICATION OF GUILT WITHHELD OR IMPOSITION OF SENTENCE SUSPENDED ON ANY FELONY OR MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license unless a period of three years has elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled (or the record has been sealed and expunged). If you answer YES to this question, you must submit a copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other court-imposed conditions. Alternatively, you can submit a copy of the court document ordering that the record be sealed and expunged.

QUESTION 9
If you have been FOUND GUILTY OF, HAD ADJUDICATION OF GUILT WITHHELD FOR, OR HAD IMPOSITION OF SENTENCE SUSPENDED FOR ONE OR MORE MISDEMEANOR CRIMES OF VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license unless a period of three years has elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled (or the record has been sealed and expunged). If you answer YES to this question, you must submit a copy of the document issued by the court or probation office evidencing completion of probation or other court-imposed conditions. Alternatively, you can submit a copy of the court document ordering that the record be sealed and expunged.

QUESTION 10
If you have been CONVICTED OR FOUND GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR CRIME OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license. Owning or possessing a firearm by one who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence is also punishable under federal law §18 USC 922.

A misdemeanor crime of domestic violence includes any misdemeanor conviction or suspended sentence involving the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim. Examples include, but are not limited to, spouse abuse, battery/domestic violence, child abuse, assault, etc. A person shall not be considered to have been convicted if the conviction or suspended sentence has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored (if the law of the convicting state provides for the loss of civil rights upon conviction of such an offense) unless the pardon, expunction, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not possess or receive firearms.

QUESTION 11
If you have been issued an injunction that is currently in force and effect that restrains you from committing acts of domestic violence or acts of repeat violence, you are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license. The Division will suspend the processing of your application until you submit certified court documents showing that the injunction has been dissolved or dismissed.

QUESTION 12
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if any of the following conditions applies to you: (1) you have been adjudicated incapacitated under section 744.331, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (2) you have been committed to a mental institution in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 394, FS, or similar laws of any other state; (3) you have been adjudicated mentally defective or incompetent in any court. Your eligibility for licensure would be restored only if you had received relief from federal firearms disabilities through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF).

QUESTION 13
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if you answer YES to any one of these questions pertaining to committal for controlled substance abuse, committal for alcohol abuse, or DUI conviction DURING THE THREE YEARS PRECEDING THE DATE ON WHICH YOU SUBMITTED YOUR APPLICATION.

QUESTION 14
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for licensure if you are UNDER ARREST OR CURRENTLY CHARGED with any felony, or crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; or any crime of violence, including crimes of domestic violence; or any crime under the provisions of Chapter 893, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state relating to controlled substances. If you choose to submit an application anyway, the Division will suspend the processing of your application until you provide a certified court document indicating the final disposition of your case. If that court document indicates that the case did not result in a conviction or a withholding of adjudication on a disqualifying crime, the suspension will be lifted and the processing of your application will continue. If you are convicted or receive a withhold of adjudication on a disqualifying crime, your application will be denied.

QUESTION 15
The term “fugitive from justice” means any person who has fled from any State to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding. If you answer YES to this question or if the background check reveals that you are a fugitive from justice, the Division will suspend the processing of your application until you submit a certified copy of a court document reflecting the final disposition of your case.

QUESTION 16
You are NOT ELIGIBLE for a Florida concealed weapon license if you were discharged from military service under DISHONORABLE CONDITIONS.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/application_instructions/concealed%20weapon_applicationinstructions.pdf

If you fail all the questions,you still can obtain a drivers licence in this state.You have a greater chance of meeting a drunk driver,than a concealed carry drunkard .

[MikeV]

I have CCW in 4 states, NY, PA, NH, FL. The one in NY is no longer valid because I left that draconian state for a life in FL. Now that I am a FL resident my CCW is valid in 32 states. I have been checked out by the FBI so many times in order to get these permits. Now, that being said I believe the Second Amendment is MY CCW. What part of shall not be infringed don't people understand. I do agree there has to be some oversight by background checks but guess what - criminals and people who have bad intensions don't get CCW they just buy them illegally or steal them. The most law abiding people are the CCW holders. Just ask the FBI that checked them out. The only thing that happens when you infringe on lawful people is make them targets. Stand your ground is a sound law and should be the law of the land. Rant over.

[Bucco]

And 86% of whites are killed by other whites.

I am a bit confused by this post.

Do not question your numbers, but trying very hard to figure out the point of WHY it is relative.

The national outcry is how white people are killing blacks, thus what is the point you are trying to make here ?

[golf2140]

Look at the evening news. If I lived in Sanford, I would carry a gun. Tired of all this crap. Jesse and Al will reap more bucks.

[twheel]

Those of us who have had some drunk stick a gun in our faces have a problem with any law that makes it easy for people to have a carry permit.
It is my understanding that Florida is a state that makes it easy to obtain a carry permit, it makes me more than a little scared. I am sure that those of you who are on here would have no trouble getting a carry permit in the states that make it hard to get one.
If I am wrong about the ease of owning a gun and getting a carry permit in Fla please respond as it would make me feel safer.

Its easier to get a drivers licence,than a concealed carry permit .And the chances are greater for you to meet a drunk driver, than a drunken concealed carry permit holder

[TrudyM]

I have a concealed weapons permit. It's not just handed out to anyone that applies. If you don't have a clean record or a DUI in the last 3 years, then you won't get one. One thing you learn right away, it's for concealed carry. If you flash it in public or even hint that you have one, you will lose it real quick and may even go to jail. It's for self protection and others. You also need gun training beforehand as well. Flashing it around while intoxicated will definitely get you jail time and loss of license.

Thanks for the info makes me feel better. The media was making it sound like every tom dick and harry had a gun.

[Irish Red]

And 86% of whites are killed by other whites.

My point was the African American community should look closer to this statistic. Another stat is that the murder rate by blacks is 14.82 per 100 as compared to whites which is 2.17 per 100. The issue isn't gun control it's self control.

[John_W]

Thanks for the info makes me feel better. The media was making it sound like every tom dick and harry had a gun.

I watched Jay Leno two nights ago interview Savannah Guthrie about the Zimmerman case. He obviously didn't know what 'neighborhood watch' was or a concealed weapons permit. From his questions I got the immediate impression he thought GZ was a hired security guard and was given a gun as part of his job. He couldn't comprehend that citizens will go out and patrol their neighborhood on their own free time. Another question was, why do they give these guys real guns. Again, he had no clue that GZ was legally carrying a concealed weapon that he owned. I got so annoyed by his ignorance I turned the show off.

[ilovetv]

Thanks for the info makes me feel better. The media was making it sound like every tom dick and harry had a gun.

And here is the problem. The media makes it sound like all KINDS of things....stereotyping as "racist" everybody who sees in the Zimmerman trial that there was reasonable doubt.

[buggyone]

I watched Jay Leno two nights ago interview Savannah Guthrie about the Zimmerman case. He obviously didn't know what 'neighborhood watch' was or a concealed weapons permit. From his questions I got the immediate impression he thought GZ was a hired security guard and was given a gun as part of his job. He couldn't comprehend that citizens will go out and patrol their neighborhood on their own free time. Another question was, why do they give these guys real guns. Again, he had no clue that GZ was legally carrying a concealed weapon that he owned. I got so annoyed by his ignorance I turned the show off.

I am sure in Leno's area of Beverly Hills that there are no neighborhood watch programs and all the security is through private companies. Beverly Hills is different from most of the county just as The Villages is different from the less desirable places in Baltimore.

Is "The Block" still around?

Yes, concealed carry permits do have restrictions such as not carrying when in a bar or the bar part of a restaurant. If a person is a veteran and has a discharge above "dishonorable", he/she can get a concealed carry permit in Florida just by presenting your DD214 plus the fee (around $85, I believe). Of course, they have to meet other criteria regarding criminal and mental compliance. No safety course or shooting qualification is required of a veteran.

I do remember seeing in the Daily Sun a couple of different articles in the past 3 years about a couple of people who were charged with assault with a deadly weapon for flashing their pistol when in a arguments over parking spaces to intimidate the other person.

Carrying a pistol has responsibility and most use it wisely.

[gomoho]

My point was the African American community should look closer to this statistic. Another stat is that the murder rate by blacks is 14.82 per 100 as compared to whites which is 2.17 per 100. The issue isn't gun control it's self control.

Interesting statistic - thank you for posting.

[DaleMN]

Vigilantes luv stand your ground.
The NRA loves stand your ground.
Cop wannabe's luv stand your ground.
Shoot 'em kimosabe. :doh:
Oh, never mind.

[davecz1]

I like Stand Your Ground and I am none of the above. I am as average in every way you can imagine. No strong beliefs either side. But, I will stand my ground if confronted. If you don't, your choice. Love choice.

[twheel]

I guess if nobody stood their ground at Pearl Harbor,Bunker Hill ,Battle of the Buldge, New Orleans,we would be speaking a different language today .

[BobnBev]

Vigilantes luv stand your ground.
The NRA loves stand your ground.
Cop wannabe's luv stand your ground.
Shoot 'em kimosabe. :doh:
Oh, never mind.

I like stand your ground. If there is no other way out, that's fine. I'd rather back off than go thru what GZ is going thru.

[Monkei]

Here is an idea.....STOP TALKING and START LISTENING...

to folks like Bill Cosby and his ilk..and there are many, BUT

They cannot get on the stage....the Sharptons, etc talk loud and that is who you and others listen to.

so listening to Bill Cosby will help educate?

[Monkei]

I have a concealed weapons permit. It's not just handed out to anyone that applies. If you don't have a clean record or a DUI in the last 3 years, then you won't get one. One thing you learn right away, it's for concealed carry. If you flash it in public or even hint that you have one, you will lose it real quick and may even go to jail. It's for self protection and others. You also need gun training beforehand as well. Flashing it around while intoxicated will definitely get you jail time and loss of license.

The Florida carry permit is a joke. Unless it has changed within the last 10 years. Aside from the normal DUI or felony check, there was absolutely nothing and they might as well hand em out like candy. You attend a gun show, sign up for the class, they go over some material and then give you a test that they gave you all the questions do during the class. Literally tell you when they give the class that this question is in the test. When we took the test every question on it was answered buy our instructor not 10 minutes earlier in class. The range option was an even bigger joke. The instructor provides his weapon, you pick it up, aim and shoot and a target and then place the gun back down. Thats it. Nothing else to the range issue. At least in Tennessee I had to provide my own gun and shoot 28 rounds!

The only hard part about getting a weapons permit in Florida is not getting caught by the police operating your vehicle and even then it's only for a very short time previously considering what you are gaining in return.

Admit it, it's a joke.

[Bucco]

so listening to Bill Cosby will help educate?

AND HIS ILK....yes sir !!!

He offers another viewpoint other than blaming someone else all the time...he offers not riots, not demostrations, not threats.

He offers for discussion and look at homelife, 2 parent families, insuring a strong education, earning your way, etc. He is black....he grew up very poor and those who march in his parade are just referred to with bad names and can never become part of the conversation. They dont make for large audiences, etc.

Yes...education on a subject like this means gathering FACTS from ALL sources and digesting them. Not listening to the same old thing over and over and hoping your young folks live to have their own family.

Yes indeed I do think it will help educate.

I use his name to demonstrate the other side of the issue


"Bill Cosby on George Zimmerman case

Bill Cosby shared his views about the George Zimmerman prosecution, Florida law and Casey Anthony. But he isn't interested in discussing race. (Bryan Bedder/Getty Images / July 16, 2013)


Bill Cosby will talk guns, the prosecution and the media in the George Zimmerman case. But he has no interest in discussing racial profiling.

In an interview with the "DomNnate Radio Show," the TV legend was adamant on the race issue.

"This racial stuff goes into a whole bunch of discussion which has stuff that you can't prove," Cosby said in an interview Tuesday. "You can't prove somebody is a racist unless they really come out and do the act and is found to be that."

George Zimmerman Bill Cosby says don't talk race - OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-bill-cosby-says-dont-talk-race-20130716,0,266734.post)

This is the exact opposite of what happened. This was RACE before the investigation was even complete.

[Monkei]

AND HIS ILK....yes sir !!!

He offers another viewpoint other than blaming someone else all the time...he offers not riots, not demostrations, not threats.

He offers for discussion and look at homelife, 2 parent families, insuring a strong education, earning your way, etc. He is black....he grew up very poor and those who march in his parade are just referred to with bad names and can never become part of the conversation. They dont make for large audiences, etc.

Yes...education on a subject like this means gathering FACTS from ALL sources and digesting them. Not listening to the same old thing over and over and hoping your young folks live to have their own family.

Yes indeed I do think it will help educate.

I use his name to demonstrate the other side of the issue


"Bill Cosby on George Zimmerman case

Bill Cosby shared his views about the George Zimmerman prosecution, Florida law and Casey Anthony. But he isn't interested in discussing race. (Bryan Bedder/Getty Images / July 16, 2013)


Bill Cosby will talk guns, the prosecution and the media in the George Zimmerman case. But he has no interest in discussing racial profiling.

In an interview with the "DomNnate Radio Show," the TV legend was adamant on the race issue.

"This racial stuff goes into a whole bunch of discussion which has stuff that you can't prove," Cosby said in an interview Tuesday. "You can't prove somebody is a racist unless they really come out and do the act and is found to be that."

George Zimmerman Bill Cosby says don't talk race - OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-bill-cosby-says-dont-talk-race-20130716,0,266734.post)

This is the exact opposite of what happened. This was RACE before the investigation was even complete.

So if we went by the Comedian Bill Cosby plan there would have never been a civil rights movement? Dismissing the race debate because you can find a black person here or there who says so? Race is an issue. I think the difference between me and you is that I think there is a race issue. But, i think we can agree nothing will ever be done about it. It's as old as time, there have always been dominating races hell bent on keeping other races down, it happens in all countries. It ain't right and I wish we could change it somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. But the answer of there is not a race issue is unacceptable.

[Bucco]

So if we went by the Comedian Bill Cosby plan there would have never been a civil rights movement?

Obviously you did not read much before responding and knowing his involvement in the civil rights movement.

Your attitude is the same knee jerk reaction as most....serves nothing but allowing the leaders of today in this movement to stay the leaders and chilling the hearts of the whites and most blacks over time.

And I assume your rhetoric about his being a comedian was a bit tongue in cheek....I felt the same way when folks on here used Bill Mahr as a spokesperson and someone to whom I should listen.

Problem is/was.....Mahr thinks he knows POLICY......Cosby talks about what he knows...being black !

[Bucco]

Some additional notes for Monkei......


Said on Martin Luther Kings birthday, 2012


"Bill Cosby doesn’t think we’ve achieved Martin Luther King Jr.’s vision.

“It’s important you understand that what I said today was that Dr. King was preparing us and we have not done a good job at receiving the message,” Cosby said Monday afternoon at Rowan University.

Cosby, the beloved comedian, author and activist, was the keynote speaker at Rowan’s 26th annual Martin Luther King Jr. Breakfast Monday. The event is sponsored by the Rowan University Foundation to honor King’s achievements. It also benefits the William H. Myers Scholarship Fund which provides financial support for high-achieving minority students.

The Philadelphia native spoke to the breakfast’s largest crowd ever—427 tickets sold—for about an hour and a half. Cosby touched upon public schools, children and young adults today and King’s vision.

“You’re not clarifying your words,” he told the audience. “You’re allowing things to go uncorrected. You’re allowing today’s birthday, today’s celebration, to read like it’s a done deal.”

Bill Cosby: Dr. King is More Than 'I Have a Dream' - Breast Cancer Awareness - Cinnaminson, NJ Patch (http://cinnaminson.patch.com/groups/breast-cancer-awareness/p/bill-cosby-dr-king-is-more-than-i-have-a-dream)

And then you might want to delve into this...

From Villanova Law University...

"http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/jrf27/pdf_files/Villanova_Talk.pdf

It is entitled...

"From Martin Luther King to Bill Cosby: Race and class in the 21st century"


Yeah you could learn from listening to him

[Bucco]

So if we went by the Comedian Bill Cosby plan there would have never been a civil rights movement? Dismissing the race debate because you can find a black person here or there who says so? Race is an issue. I think the difference between me and you is that I think there is a race issue. But, i think we can agree nothing will ever be done about it. It's as old as time, there have always been dominating races hell bent on keeping other races down, it happens in all countries. It ain't right and I wish we could change it somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. But the answer of there is not a race issue is unacceptable.

I offered you some more reading from some Cosby things but doubt if you will read.

I do not agree at all that nothing will ever be done as you say. Race was jacked from MLK in the 60's, inserted into a poltical movement and lost. Those who use MLK's name today have no idea of what they speak. He and others like him would be appalled at the using of his race.

No I do not agree it is hopeless.....I am confident in individual hearts and souls. If politics stay out, there is a ton of hope. Those who say what you are saying are promoting it for whatever reason......Sharpton is out of work if we get along...voters can decide issues on merits instead of skin color.

I believe it can be done, but suggest you do some reading. Normal folks are not filled with hate. The hate is spoon fed to them. No I do not agree that it is hopeless at all.

[Bucco]

So if we went by the Comedian Bill Cosby plan there would have never been a civil rights movement? Dismissing the race debate because you can find a black person here or there who says so? Race is an issue. I think the difference between me and you is that I think there is a race issue. But, i think we can agree nothing will ever be done about it. It's as old as time, there have always been dominating races hell bent on keeping other races down, it happens in all countries. It ain't right and I wish we could change it somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. But the answer of there is not a race issue is unacceptable.

You also have a problem understanding what he said....he did NOT say as you attribute to him that there is not a race issue. He alluded to there was not a race issue IN THIS CASE.

Do not read what you want to hear...please sir.

[twheel]

So if we went by the Comedian Bill Cosby plan there would have never been a civil rights movement? Dismissing the race debate because you can find a black person here or there who says so? Race is an issue. I think the difference between me and you is that I think there is a race issue. But, i think we can agree nothing will ever be done about it. It's as old as time, there have always been dominating races hell bent on keeping other races down, it happens in all countries. It ain't right and I wish we could change it somehow but I don't think it will ever happen. But the answer of there is not a race issue is unacceptable.

I really think you enjoy goading other posters . The only racist remarks were from Trayvons crazy ass cracker. The operator had to ask Zimmerman what color Trayvon was. And his answer was. I think he is black. How is that a race issue ?

[Bucco]

I really think you enjoy goading other posters . The only racist remarks were from Trayvons crazy ass cracker. The operator had to ask Zimmerman what color Trayvon was. And his answer was. I think he is black. How is that a race issue ?

I am beginning to think your idea on this poster are correct. He/she seems like what I think in forum lingo is called a flamer. Does not read....just seems to want to ignite.

Always amazing to folks who post like this, you read and respond DIRECTLY to their post meaning your READ IT.....thought about it and then replied.

Anyway, he doesnt listen..... so guess that is why that ignore button exists :)

[janmcn]

It was encouraging to hear on the local NBC News tonight that several Florida legislators will be proposing changes to Florida's "stand your ground" law. No other details were given. Unfortunately, the legislative session doesn't begin until March 2014, unless a special session is called.

Will try to find a link to this late-breaking news, but will probably have to wait until tomorrow's newspaper.

[Bucco]

It was encouraging to hear on the local NBC News tonight that several Florida legislators will be proposing changes to Florida's "stand your ground" law. No other details were given. Unfortunately, the legislative session doesn't begin until March 2014, unless a special session is called.

Will try to find a link to this late-breaking news, but will probably have to wait until tomorrow's newspaper.

I said in an earlier post that the politicians will go crazy...there will so many Travon Martin laws, you will need a scorecard...

"Members of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) are readying a flurry of bills in response to George Zimmerman’s acquittal on charges in last year’s fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin.

The lawmakers are drafting proposals intended to rein in racial profiling; scrap state stand-your-ground laws; and promote better training for the nation’s neighborhood watch volunteers, among other anti-violence measures.
CBC members had remained largely silent throughout the trial, but following the verdict, argued forcefully that, decades after the civil rights movement, the nation’s criminal justice system still discriminates against blacks and other minorities.

Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), an icon of the civil rights era, said the decision “seems to justify the stalking and killing of innocent black boys and deny them any avenue of self-defense.”

Rep. Marcia Fudge (D-Ohio), head of the CBC, decried “the presumption of guilt so often associated with people of color.”

In Wake of Zimmerman Verdict, Black Caucus Readies Flurry of Bills (http://www.westernjournalism.com/in-wake-of-zimmerman-verdict-black-caucus-readies-flurry-of-bills/)

"As a reminder, the Zimmerman case had nothing to do with race or Stand Your Ground laws and, Martin wasn't "stalked" as Lewis claims. Despite Stand Your Ground being irrelevant to the Zimmerman case, it is important to point out that these laws actually benefit blacks more whites (George Zimmerman is Hispanic) since Attorney General Eric Holder and the CBC are using it as a scapegoat.

African Americans benefit from Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” self-defense law at a rate far out of proportion to their presence in the state’s population, despite an assertion by Attorney General Eric Holder that repealing “Stand Your Ground” would help African Americans.

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state’s total “Stand Your Ground” claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Tuesday during a speech to the NAACP, Holder called for a review of all Stand Your Ground laws across the country and equated self-defense to gun violence. "

Black Caucus Readies Irrelevant Racial Profiling Bill in Response to Zimmerman Verdict - Katie Pavlich (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/07/17/black-caucus-readies-irrelevant-racial-profiling-bill-n1642662)

Stand your ground laws are active in TWENTY FOUR STATES and I think maybe another TEN pending. There may need some clarification however...

AND MOST IMPORTANT......

This Martin case had NOTHING to do with Stand your Ground nor Race...so not sure what all this fuss is about....perhaps to just keep it alive ?

[Suzi]

We need more strong, successful black leaders. Not race baiters. I'm not sure "who" I heard yesterday, but blacks represent 16% of the US population but account for over
50% of crimes. I do not feel that our President is the "role model" that I would have expected. Some would say that other presidents did not have that in his job description but, I believe, that many voted for Obama hoping that he would be a "bridge" to better race relations. I am sadly disappointed. If our president can't step up to the plate - who will? He has a perfect opportunity to change how young men "react" to cases like the acquittal of GZ, but we have not heard from him. He should be out there showing respect for the court system and he should be condemning the speeches of Al Sharpton.

[Bucco]

In addition...

"Florida Gov. Rick Scott reiterated Wednesday that he has no plans to call a special session to have legislators address the state's self-defense laws following the George Zimmerman trial.

Scott's words so far are having little effect on the small group of protesters upset that Zimmerman was acquitted of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges in the 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

As many as 30 protesters remained in the Capitol after hours, ready to spend a second straight night in the hallway near Scott's office. The group had pillows, bottled water, pizza and other food. They started chanting and signing loudly phrases such as "Mama, mama, can't you see what the system done to me" once the doors were closed to government offices.

A spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said that the protesters - many of whom are members of a group called Dream Defenders - would be allowed to stay overnight again."

Read more: Stand your ground law: Florida Governor Rick Scott does not believe any changes need to be made (http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/stand-your-ground-law-florida-governor-rick-scott-does-not-believe-any-changes-need-to-be-made#ixzz2ZROmpSYn)

And on the DREAM DEFENDERS in case you wanted to know...

"The Dream Defenders is an organization directed by Black & Brown youth, who confront systemic inequality by building our collective power. Be the Power!"

Dream Defenders (http://dreamdefenders.tumblr.com/)

[gomoho]

OMG - those facts just go to show you - they don't have a clue what they are talking about. Scary, very scary.

[Bucco]

We need more strong, successful black leaders. Not race baiters. I'm not sure "who" I heard yesterday, but blacks represent 16% of the US population but account for over
50% of crimes. I do not feel that our President is the "role model" that I would have expected. Some would say that other presidents did not have that in his job description but, I believe, that many voted for Obama hoping that he would be a "bridge" to better race relations. I am sadly disappointed. If our president can't step up to the plate - who will? He has a perfect opportunity to change how young men "react" to cases like the acquittal of GZ, but we have not heard from him. He should be out there showing respect for the court system and he should be condemning the speeches of Al Sharpton.

I did not support President Obama, however I disagree with you on our expected role for him.

His is the President of the United States before he is black.

His mistake with this case was interfering early on before the investigation was over, but he has done nothing wrong since the verdict. He is a good role model actually....he is a good family man and husband. No more required from him in my opinion.

Problem is those that some prefer to listen to on this subject is so mired in just plain crap. The folks who supposedly speak for this group are taking advantage of this group.....ALL of them. The black race is being used, but not by the white race...by the so called leaders of the black race.

[TexaninVA]

The media and NAACP have conveniently decided to preach "the stand your ground law" that was not even invoked in the Zimmerman trial is one of the reasons young black men are getting killed. Stevie Wonder even said he won't perform in states that have a "stand your ground law".

Here's an idea - how about reforming or locking up all the gansta thugs we might need to "stand our ground" against. I am so tired of being portrayed as some "crazy ass cracker" that is running around looking for any opportunity to kill a young black man 'cause he might look suspicious. Time to look within and see where the problems really are originating from.

Put all this effort into educating these young men and give them an opportunity to have a future other than on the streets. Teach them the importance of not being a baby daddy to anyone woman that will lie down for them, but the importance of being a father to their next generation. Give them role models that aren't rappers preaching the nasty way to live and treat women. So much needs to be done in these communities and it has to start with their leaders - well I may have just answered my own question. Who and where are their leaders???


The leaders that get the major media attention are the hustlers who make it worse. Yours is the only solution set that seems like it could actually work, but our culture is decaying to the point that it will never be tried. Maybe a huge crisis will serve as the spark for reform?

[Monkei]

I offered you some more reading from some Cosby things but doubt if you will read.

I do not agree at all that nothing will ever be done as you say. Race was jacked from MLK in the 60's, inserted into a poltical movement and lost. Those who use MLK's name today have no idea of what they speak. He and others like him would be appalled at the using of his race.

No I do not agree it is hopeless.....I am confident in individual hearts and souls. If politics stay out, there is a ton of hope. Those who say what you are saying are promoting it for whatever reason......Sharpton is out of work if we get along...voters can decide issues on merits instead of skin color.

I believe it can be done, but suggest you do some reading. Normal folks are not filled with hate. The hate is spoon fed to them. No I do not agree that it is hopeless at all.

You just bucked 2000+ years of humanity. I guess no one before now had ever tried? What makes you think the next 250 years will be different. I guess we could all hold hands across the world and give each other a coke.

Thanks for your understanding of my reading capabilities.

[Bucco]

You just bucked 2000+ years of humanity. I guess no one before now had ever tried? What makes you think the next 250 years will be different. I guess we could all hold hands across the world and give each other a coke.

Thanks for your understanding of my reading capabilities.

I have no understanding of your reading skills. You don't seem to read ANYTHING and just talk.

I have responded to erasing the politics of race, gave you a number of links to read and you just keep going on with anything but was is posted.

You sarcasm is also noted as I go to the ignore button..sorry you are not here to discuss anything.

[buggyone]

I wonder how the "stand your ground" law would apply to a 21 year old skinny African American (wearing droopy jeans and gold grills on the teeth) who felt threatened by a couple of 70 year old retired semi-drunk white guys in The Villages (around 10 pm by the Old Mill - no witnesses) and he decided not to run but rather shot both in the chest and killed them. He had a concealed carry permit.

He could say they told him they both had guns and he was going to be the next Trayvon. Of course, neither white guy had a gun on them but the young man did not know and took the preventitive first step.

Does he get off with the "stand your ground" law being in place here in Florida?

Any bets? That ice-cold Yeungling at Cody's is still a valid bet.