What exactly is a racist?

[BobnBev]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

[Monkei]

Who cares, I mean its not like its a subject that an be discussed and some sort of result happen as a result. I think the easiest definition would be treating someone of a different race differently than you would a person of a different race.

[Irish Rover]

Being a racisist these day can be "someone who gives too good a description of a person who commits a crime".

[Shimpy]

Being a racisist these day can be "someone who gives too good a description of a person who commits a crime".

It's like the word "prejudice" that is always being used. They say it is bad to be prejudice against someone. I'll admit, I'm prejudice against serial rapists. Does that make me a bad person?

[kbace6]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

Only an individual knows what is in their own heart. I suppose if you have to ask the question, the answer is probably yes. If you're okay with the answer one way or another it doesn't matter what others think.

I do believe people can say things that someone else deems racist, but not be racist themselves. IE political correctness. Again, it depends on what is on your own heart. Only you truly know unless you vocalize it to others. Kind of like your post.

I commend you on your post. I prefer it when people speak their minds. That way at least you know what you are dealing with. I don't typically trust those who are tight lipped all the time.

Being one who is in an inter-racial marriage, when I arrive in TV I will do my very best to stay out of your eyesight so as to not make you feel uncomfortable with the view of myself and my loved one. Seeing 2 people very happy can sometimes make others feel badly about themselves.

As an FYI, I am NOT the least bit offended by your post. Some people are accepting of others and some are not. We are all different people with different points of view.

Best of luck to you with your myopia. :)

[Happydaz]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

Hopefully all the anti-miscegenation laws have been removed from all our state laws by now. At one time in America it was illegal in some states to marry a person of another race. Thank goodness that our great country has moved beyond that to a more enlightened time.

[JP]

A racist is a person who has an irrational and unfounded hatred of another person or race.

[njbchbum]

lemme try - a racist would be a person who believes that their race, culture and heredity factors/influences place them above or in a place that is superior to someone of a different race with different cultural and heredity factors/influences.

i suggest you do a search on the definition of the words racist and racism and read the resulting definitions - it is enlightening to say the least! and then search the definition of bigot! wowza!

[billethkid]

a racist examples:
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
and all the other race stumpers that climb out of their holes when an opportunity for lights, camera, action presents itself.

Check out their lifestyles as well you will find racists like the above are also hypocrites.

btk

[janmcn]

a racist examples:
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
and all the other race stumpers that climb out of their holes when an opportunity for lights, camera, action presents itself.

Check out their lifestyles as well you will find racists like the above are also hypocrites.

btk


It will be interesting to see how racism is defined as whites become the minority. This has already happened in California. Can Florida be far behind?

[eweissenbach]

a racist examples:
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
and all the other race stumpers that climb out of their holes when an opportunity for lights, camera, action presents itself.

Check out their lifestyles as well you will find racists like the above are also hypocrites.

btk

Interesting if not instructive, that you name only persons of color as examples of racism, and describe them as climbing "out of their holes". While I could agree that the two you name could legitimately be viewed as racist, there are plenty of more egregious examples among white racists. I won't name any names, but most know who they are.

[Bucco]

It will be interesting to see how racism is defined as whites become the minority. This has already happened in California. Can Florida be far behind?

How would that change the definition ?

[Bucco]

Interesting if not instructive, that you name only persons of color as examples of racism, and describe them as climbing "out of their holes". While I could agree that the two you name could legitimately be viewed as racist, there are plenty of more egregious examples among white racists. I won't name any names, but most know who they are.

Your point is well taken. Problem is, as with any discussion you have, is how you frame the question.

The national discussion is pretty much a one directional thing...not that the others do not exist, but they are pretty much hidden away.

[BobnBev]

So then, my post has done what it was designed to do...
Get people talking and thinking.:blahblahblah::clap2:

[cbg150]

A person who asserts the superiority of their own race through the use of stereotypes and thinly veiled (or sometimes open) hostility toward people of a different races. There is a big difference between a racist and a civil rights leader like Jesse Jackson, Jr who may criticize specific behaviors of specific people in an effort to create awareness and a better society where we can all share the benefits of a more just society...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrudyM]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

Yes. A person who has a problem with people of different races getting married is a racist. You have the right to your beliefs. If you don't act on them you are closeted and not a danger. If you are rude or act against those of other races there is nothing closeted about it.

So as I am married to a Japanese Hawaiian, I guess we are not welcome in the villages by your standards. I have been assured by others that is not true so possibly you are the one who is out of step.

[KeepingItReal]

a racist examples:
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
and all the other race stumpers that climb out of their holes when an opportunity for lights, camera, action presents itself.

Check out their lifestyles as well you will find racists like the above are also hypocrites.

btk

This quote from long ago well describes those like Sharpton and Jackson wanting to just stir up things for their own benefit...

Booker T. Washington Quote
Quotes by Category | Quotes by Person | Quotes of the Day


"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well."

by: Booker T. Washington
(1856-1915) African American political leader, educator and author


Booker Taliaferro Washington (April 5, 1856 – November 14, 1915) was an African-American educator, author, orator, and advisor to presidents of the United States. Between 1890 and 1915, Washington was the dominant leader in the US African-American community.

[graciegirl]

A person who asserts the superiority of their own race through the use of stereotypes and thinly veiled (or sometimes open) hostility toward people of a different races. There is a big difference between a racist and a civil rights leader like Jesse Jackson, Jr who may criticize specific behaviors of specific people in an effort to create awareness and a better society where we can all share the benefits of a more just society...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think if it is sauce for the goose than it is sauce for the gander. I think that some "civil rights leaders" are doing just that.

It isn't right either way.

[Irish Rover]

I think the definition oif racist is clear to all of us but it's manipulation of the definition that's queering the deal these days. Just my humble opinion.

[Warren Kiefer]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

A racist is a person that is without reason, they have a belief that a particular race is inferior to his personal race. The degree of racism is compounded when that person practices and acts upon his racist beliefs.

What you describe as yourself is more prejudice than racism.

[cbg150]

I think if it is sauce for the goose than it is sauce for the gander. I think that some "civil rights leaders" are doing just that.

It isn't right either way.

Grace, while it may be true for some self-proclaimed "civil rights leaders", it is definitely not true for all. I have had the pleasure of meeting Jesse Jackson, and I see him as a true humanitarian. I love the following quote:
"We must all learn a good lesson - how to live together. That is the new challenge of the new world... learning to co-exist and not co-annihilate."
--Jesse Jackson





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[mac9]

a racist examples:
Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
and all the other race stumpers that climb out of their holes when an opportunity for lights, camera, action presents itself.

Check out their lifestyles as well you will find racists like the above are also hypocrites.

btk

We can also add Anne Coulter and Rush Limbough to that list, or would that be offensive to you?

[billethkid]

This quote from long ago well describes those like Sharpton and Jackson wanting to just stir up things for their own benefit...

Booker T. Washington Quote
Quotes by Category | Quotes by Person | Quotes of the Day


"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don't want the patient to get well."

by: Booker T. Washington
(1856-1915) African American political leader, educator and author


Booker Taliaferro Washington (April 5, 1856 – November 14, 1915) was an African-American educator, author, orator, and advisor to presidents of the United States. Between 1890 and 1915, Washington was the dominant leader in the US African-American community.

How well Washington's quote above describe the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, et al.

Btk

[Cedwards38]

A racist is a person with a prejudice based on skin color or ethnicity.

[Golfingnut]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

no, that makes you a bigot

[rubicon]

Well if you recall Thomas Sowell's recent column you would have remember that he posted statistics that showed there were more black racist than white. So ask yourself why that is so? IMHO think Sharpton, et al.

But to the point I do not believe people dislike other people because of their color but because of their actions.

For example I am an American of Italian descent and I am incensed by the actions of those Italians that portray themselves as Guidos. Seriously! That sterotype did not exist in my neighborhood. Bon jovi made that same statement saying that it did not represent his New Jersey neighborhood . So too with black Hispanic and Asian cultures. So I believe people are mainly turned off by how these people act. Essentially its the arrogance and ignorant nature od these people

I would vote Thomas Sowell president in a New York second but Jesses Jackson never in my entire lifetime

Jessee Jackson once said that if he saw black men approaching him he would be afraid. Now we sadly finding him campaigning for justice in behalf of Trayvon Matin. It would seem according to people like him that we have not advanced on this issue since the 1960's Perhaps Jackson and Sharpton should stick their heads out of their shells and note the number of black leaders in government, military corporations and oh yea the White House.

IMHO Trayvon Martin provide an opportunity for people like Sharpton to kick up a fuss because what really is behind all of this was the Supreme courts decision recently on the Voting Rights Act, They know its time to level the play field once again but they still want it tilted in their favor.

The kicker is that their actions are opening up old wounds and that is not good for America.

I opine you decide

[graciegirl]

Well if you recall Thomas Sowell's recent column you would have remember that he posted statistics that showed there were more black racist than white. So ask yourself why that is so? IMHO think Sharpton, et al.

But to the point I do not believe people dislike other people because of their color but because of their actions.

For example I am an American of Italian descent and I am incensed by the actions of those Italians that portray themselves as Guidos. Seriously! That sterotype did not exist in my neighborhood. Bon jovi made that same statement saying that it did not represent his New Jersey neighborhood . So too with black Hispanic and Asian cultures. So I believe people are mainly turned off by how these people act. Essentially its the arrogance and ignorant nature od these people

I would vote Thomas Sowell president in a New York second but Jesses Jackson never in my entire lifetime

Jessee Jackson once said that if he saw black men approaching him he would be afraid. Now we sadly finding him campaigning for justice in behalf of Trayvon Matin. It would seem according to people like him that we have not advanced on this issue since the 1960's Perhaps Jackson and Sharpton should stick their heads out of their shells and note the number of black leaders in government, military corporations and oh yea the White House.

IMHO Trayvon Martin provide an opportunity for people like Sharpton to kick up a fuss because what really is behind all of this was the Supreme courts decision recently on the Voting Rights Act, They know its time to level the play field once again but they still want it tilted in their favor.

The kicker is that their actions are opening up old wounds and that is not good for America.

I opine you decide


I am really listening to you Rubicon.

It doesn't make a nickels worth of difference to me Rubicon what color anyone is but behavior sure makes me judgmental.

I think everyone needs to behave. Sit down. Think. Get up. Work. Take care of yourself, your family. I wish we had a huge disease that made us all bright green. Then we could just have our opinions on poor behavior or good behavior.

And we are allowed opinions. It is where someone's fist ends and anothers face begins that we lose our right to respect.

[tucson]

Well if you recall Thomas Sowell's recent column you would have remember that he posted statistics that showed there were more black racist than white. So ask yourself why that is so? IMHO think Sharpton, et al.

But to the point I do not believe people dislike other people because of their color but because of their actions.

For example I am an American of Italian descent and I am incensed by the actions of those Italians that portray themselves as Guidos. Seriously! That sterotype did not exist in my neighborhood. Bon jovi made that same statement saying that it did not represent his New Jersey neighborhood . So too with black Hispanic and Asian cultures. So I believe people are mainly turned off by how these people act. Essentially its the arrogance and ignorant nature od these people

I would vote Thomas Sowell president in a New York second but Jesses Jackson never in my entire lifetime

Jessee Jackson once said that if he saw black men approaching him he would be afraid. Now we sadly finding him campaigning for justice in behalf of Trayvon Matin. It would seem according to people like him that we have not advanced on this issue since the 1960's Perhaps Jackson and Sharpton should stick their heads out of their shells and note the number of black leaders in government, military corporations and oh yea the White House.

IMHO Trayvon Martin provide an opportunity for people like Sharpton to kick up a fuss because what really is behind all of this was the Supreme courts decision recently on the Voting Rights Act, They know its time to level the play field once again but they still want it tilted in their favor.

The kicker is that their actions are opening up old wounds and that is not good for America.

I opine you decide

Yes you are right.. read the column Dennis Prager wrote today on his website entitled "The Election of a Black President Has Meant Nothing" The Dennis Prager Show (http://www.dennisprager.com/columns) , it's very ironic that nothing has changed since the 1991 Crown Heights,Brooklyn "racial tensions" on Jews because of an unfortunate car accident driven by a Jewish white man that caused a black boy to die. There were serious anti-Semitic riots by mobs of blacks for 3days, here we are 22yrs later & nothing has "changed" in America, it's only getting worse re; race relations. Very sad to say.

[Avista]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

Then you wouldn't like my beautiful, smart biracial grandchildren whose parents have been married 17 years. :(

[graciegirl]

Then you wouldn't like my beautiful, smart biracial grandchildren whose parents have been married 17 years. :(

Of course we would all like them. But not if they hurt the dog or got mud on my new white chairs.

All people have the same expectations in my book.

[billethkid]

We can also add Anne Coulter and Rush Limbough to that list, or would that be offensive to you?


not at all....everything is in the eye/mind/belief/opinions/thoughts of the beholder.....a concept foreign to far too many in this day and society that feels obligated to paint any opposition or difference with a tar brush.

We are all entitled to be right (or wrong) as the facts support (or not).

btk

[Avista]

Of course we would all like them. But not if they hurt the dog or got mud on my new white chairs.

All people have the same expectations in my book.

Trust me they are dog lovers and have rescued a beautiful lab mix. Not sure about grandson and white chairs though! :)

[Golfingnut]

Trust me they are dog lovers and have rescued a beautiful lab mix. Not sure about grandson and white chairs though! :)

LOL. If I visited a home with white furniture, I would see a non kid friendly home and keep a eye on the kids for sure. Hee hee

[tucson]

Been a lot of talk here about racists. Anybody have a good definition?

I don't believe in inter-racial marriages. Hetro--Bi--Gay--lesbian--makes no difference to me.

Does that make me a closet racist?

Just curious.

Food for thought.

IMO, definition of "racist" goes back to the 1800's when the Europeans went to Africa to capture the black natives to sell as slaves in the new world (America).They held the belief that they were "inferior" to the white establishment of that time. That to me, is where the term "racism" came from. I'm glad that there are inter-racial marriages, it's hopefully creating a different mind-set to their children of equality in the races to that they'll bring into their future.

[JPC55]

We can also add Anne Coulter and Rush Limbough to that list, or would that be offensive to you?

If they ALL would ONLY put their 'Negative' energy into 'POSITIVE energy' and work on solving issues, the country would be much better off.. Way to much NEGATIVITY and finger pointing. Leaders are not addressing the real issues that go on in our cities. This is where the focus should be.. Teaching trades, improving education, etc. at a young age.

[ilovetv]

Charles Barkley gets it better than a lot of the lawyers, talking heads and "reverends" do.....

Especially in what he says about the media's motives and agenda:

Charles Barkley on CNBC: Jury was right to acquit Zimmerman (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100897441)

[blueash]

You may not believe in interracial marriage, but it is reality. You can believe in Santa Claus and it doesn't make him real, you can not believe in marriage and it is still true that it has happened. Sorry to tell you your beliefs are errors. Proudly all of the world has moved beyond your belief system with the exception of a few who cling to their personal philosophy which almost everyone else rejects as yes racist and yes prejudiced and yes bigoted. Perhaps you will now tell us how Jews control the banks and the world via their protocols of the elders and how if only we'd never given them blacks and them women the right to vote America would still have been a great country. How anyone can read your words and not be furious and saddened at the belief you hold amazes me. I applaud those who have written that you are entitled to your opinion, but I would call you out as an evil person for spewing such an idea for discussion as if there could be two reasonable sides to the issue. If you meant it solely to stimulate controversy and you really don't support what you wrote it was still IMO shameful. Rant over

[ilovetv]

I don't agree with it, but to me, if a person thinks inter-racial marriage is wrong, "So WHAT?"

As long as they do not act upon that thought nor cause anybody harm, what's the problem with THINKING something that, to others, is viewed as mean and bigoted?

How can people claim to be liberal and open-minded and accepting/inclusive, and simultaneously call for censorship of any speech that does not agree with their own?? This is not logical!!

I don't like this Thought Police thing going on more and more lately.

[mgjim]

I don't agree with it, but to me, if a person thinks inter-racial marriage is wrong, "So WHAT?"

As long as they do not act upon that thought nor cause anybody harm, what's the problem with THINKING something that, to others, is viewed as mean and bigoted?

How can people claim to be liberal and open-minded and accepting/inclusive, and simultaneously call for censorship of any speech that does not agree with their own?? This is not logical!!

I don't like this Thought Police thing going on more and more lately.

So you believe that every point of view is equally valid?

[rubicon]

ilovetv you are on to something. a priest friend of mine once long ago said the same thing. He was referring to sin and explained that while a person may thinks something if it is not followed by action then its just a thought. I suppose he mentioned this because the catholic church early on would ask church members to confess to having impure thoughts to their list of sins.

We have our preferences...my grandmother said to me once marry a nice Italian girl wherein I replied but grandma I don't know any nice Italian girls. Clearly her intentions were to preserve our heritage. so when my cousin was the first to marry a non Italian ( Russian orthodox) the family went nuts at first but quickly recovered.

My family today is a broad cross section of North South East West Europeans

But when we discuss issues such as this I believe it is important to climb above the fray and look broadly at the benefits and consequences because it removes our natural born biases allowing us to think clearly and fairly about
the human race. I had always wondered about people who did hurtful and greedy things thinking to myself these people apparently thinks they are going to live forever because why would it mean so much for them to commit such desperate acts?, etc. In the end it all doesn't matter. What is important to me is to do more good than bad. To preserve my integrity so that I can look at man in the eyes with the satisfaction that I did not betray him that I lived honestly and honorable so that in my final moment I can rest my head with contentment ready for my long sleep

[graciegirl]

You may not believe in interracial marriage, but it is reality. You can believe in Santa Claus and it doesn't make him real, you can not believe in marriage and it is still true that it has happened. Sorry to tell you your beliefs are errors. Proudly all of the world has moved beyond your belief system with the exception of a few who cling to their personal philosophy which almost everyone else rejects as yes racist and yes prejudiced and yes bigoted. Perhaps you will now tell us how Jews control the banks and the world via their protocols of the elders and how if only we'd never given them blacks and them women the right to vote America would still have been a great country. How anyone can read your words and not be furious and saddened at the belief you hold amazes me. I applaud those who have written that you are entitled to your opinion, but I would call you out as an evil person for spewing such an idea for discussion as if there could be two reasonable sides to the issue. If you meant it solely to stimulate controversy and you really don't support what you wrote it was still IMO shameful. Rant over

I think most people are far more complex in their beliefs than that.

Some of our prejudices are positive and somewhat accurate.

Some of our prejudices are mean spirited and narrow minded.

Sometimes we have to generalize in order to make some kinds of decisions.

For instance if some kid came in showing four inches of underwear, had a skull tattoo and he had those big black discs in his ears, I wouldn't hire him. I don't care if he was valedictorian, summa cum laude, an Eagle scout and a pillar of his church.

Sometimes we have to adapt, fit in, look the part and try harder.

We all have prejudices. But all people are worthy to be listened to and respected until they do something that hurts others on purpose or fail to take care of themselves and their family if they are able to.

Not all people are born with the same level of intelligence and you can call them stupid if you wish, but few people realize that most people are doing the best they can with the intelligence that they were born with and the experiences they have had. You can educate people and give the tools to help them, but you cannot make them innately smarter.

I am the mother of a gifted child and a retarded one. I love them both exactly the same and feel they have the exact same value in this world. People are born within the spectrum of intelligence of my two children and education and good parenting can only modify that somewhat. Be kind and fair and help as much as you can and see all people as worthwhile unless and until the hurt others on purpose. MOST people are doing the best they can with what they were born with.

I will never be the center for the Celtics.

[DougB]

........

For instance if some kid came in showing four inches of underwear, had a skull tattoo and he had those big black discs in his ears, I wouldn't hire him. I don't care if he was valedictorian, summa cum laude, an Eagle scout and a pillar of his church..........

If that kid comes your way, send him over to see me. I will hire him.

[OldManTime]

Simple definition of racist is;

S h a r p t o n

J a c k s o n

[lightworker888]

I find it interesting to read all the different views on "racism" most of which I tend to code as "preferences". We all have preferences based on our personal history and some are more staunch in their holding of them and others are more open to looking at them and possibly expanding them or eliminating them.

It's like we are all looking out of different windows in this big house we all live in and some choose to stay in one room and others seek to explore the house and see what is in other rooms and out other windows.

All the choices we make in life are based on our viewpoints and for many there is alot at stake if they change their perspective. In fact for some it would shake up their whole world and create too much confusion so they choose not to look out another window. There really is no reason to blame them, as they are the ones who have to live with the consequences of changing their viewpoint. I still have a challenge with extremists of any sort, and maybe that is where the term "racist" belongs.

I remember that my husband (Irish descent, and I'm Chinese) once went into an ice cream store and was served by a young lad who had tattoos all over and green hair and an earring. My husband at the time was very conservative in his thinking but for some reason got engaged in conversation. When he told me about the experience, he said that it really gave him food for thought and made him realize how much he judged kids by their appearance and often dismissed those who weren't attired "properly". He still would prefer the other, but he no longer judges them by how they look. Like most people he is most comfortable with those who are similar in thought and action, though he does like a good debate!

When I was young, I used to think that any "misfortunes" I suffered were because I was Chinese, but as I got older I began to realize that my "misfortunes" were consequences of my own actions or thoughts and in fact most of them turned out to have great silver linings and were really not misfortunes.

When my husband and I were married over 30 yrs ago, heads would always turn as I have always lived in a predominantly white neighbourhood. Now, hardly anyone notices us as a couple, except chinese people that see us! And they always look twice, even if they are an interracial couple.

Racism has always been a hot topic, so like all hot topics there will be many viewpoints. I think I better go into another room now.

LW888

[graciegirl]

I find it interesting to read all the different views on "racism" most of which I tend to code as "preferences". We all have preferences based on our personal history and some are more staunch in their holding of them and others are more open to looking at them and possibly expanding them or eliminating them.

It's like we are all looking out of different windows in this big house we all live in and some choose to stay in one room and others seek to explore the house and see what is in other rooms and out other windows.

All the choices we make in life are based on our viewpoints and for many there is alot at stake if they change their perspective. In fact for some it would shake up their whole world and create too much confusion so they choose not to look out another window. There really is no reason to blame them, as they are the ones who have to live with the consequences of changing their viewpoint. I still have a challenge with extremists of any sort, and maybe that is where the term "racist" belongs.

I remember that my husband (Irish descent, and I'm Chinese) once went into an ice cream store and was served by a young lad who had tattoos all over and green hair and an earring. My husband at the time was very conservative in his thinking but for some reason got engaged in conversation. When he told me about the experience, he said that it really gave him food for thought and made him realize how much he judged kids by their appearance and often dismissed those who weren't attired "properly". He still would prefer the other, but he no longer judges them by how they look. Like most people he is most comfortable with those who are similar in thought and action, though he does like a good debate!

When I was young, I used to think that any "misfortunes" I suffered were because I was Chinese, but as I got older I began to realize that my "misfortunes" were consequences of my own actions or thoughts and in fact most of them turned out to have great silver linings and were really not misfortunes.

When my husband and I were married over 30 yrs ago, heads would always turn as I have always lived in a predominantly white neighbourhood. Now, hardly anyone notices us as a couple, except chinese people that see us! And they always look twice, even if they are an interracial couple.

Racism has always been a hot topic, so like all hot topics there will be many viewpoints. I think I better go into another room now.

LW888

Whatta girl. You and I may not always agree on small things but I am just hugely blessed to know you. You always make my day brighter, expand my world and make me see things a little more clearly and from a different perspective and you ALWAYS make me smile and want to hug you.

[blueash]

I think most people are far more complex in their beliefs than that.

Some of our prejudices are positive and somewhat accurate.

Some of our prejudices are mean spirited and narrow minded.

Sometimes we have to generalize in order to make some kinds of decisions.


We all have prejudices. But all people are worthy to be listened to and respected until they do something that hurts others on purpose or fail to take care of themselves and their family if they are able to.

Not all people are born with the same level of intelligence and you can call them stupid if you wish, but few people realize that most people are doing the best they can with the intelligence that they were born with and the experiences they have had. You can educate people and give the tools to help them, but you cannot make them innately smarter.

.

Gracie I don't think this has anything to do with smart and I called no one stupid. A couple things. Prejudice is different than discrimination although they are often intertwined. Prejudice means you judge a situation before having facts on which to base that decision. You pre judge. If it is the way you intend to treat a fellow human it denies that other person their ability to present themselves to you and be judged on their actual merits. To say that a black person should not be allowed to marry a white person is to deny them their humanity, their equality, their most basic right to be treated fairly and decently. It is not just a harmless world view rather it is the world view that led to slavery and the KKK and the Jim Crow laws. All views are not due equal hearing and equal respect. The public forum is not equally open to those that claim the earth is round vs the earth is flat. It is the duty of citizens to shout down those who continue to deny that the earth is round and tell them their "belief" is wrong and not worthy of equal time and in fact worthy of derision. If I were to state that all disabled children should be killed I would hope you wouldn't comment that all views need to be respected until they are acted upon. I would hope you would scream about what an inherently evil thought that is and that a person who holds that view ought to keep it silent or be severely criticized by everyone in the room if such an evil thought is even spoken.
On the other hand, your desire not to hire those who dress in a way to which you object may be based on some evidence or knowledge in which case you have discriminated, or made a choice based on knowledge. Or it may be prejudice depending on the thoughtfulness and completeness of your evidence gathering. We use the phrase "you have discriminating taste" as a compliment not an insult. So there is nothing wrong with discrimination, it only becomes wrong if you discriminate on the basis of ones prejudice.
So if a person says to me " I don't believe blacks should be allowed to marry real humans " which is the substance of the denial of interracial marriage, that is an opinion that needs to be vigorously opposed and openly derided if our culture is to continue to make progress against bigotry.

[Bucco]

Despite a number of posts yesterday that attempted to diss the posters on here, and the fact they have differing opinions, the last number of posts in this thread prove otherwise.

Where are those folks who judge others by their opinions.....

The last few posts on here were not just "nice", but real as I think it represents the norm. That is why if you take the politics out of race, the possibilities are amazing.

[Lark7]

Racists come in all colours.

[graciegirl]

Gracie I don't think this has anything to do with smart and I called no one stupid. A couple things. Prejudice is different than discrimination although they are often intertwined. Prejudice means you judge a situation before having facts on which to base that decision. You pre judge. If it is the way you intend to treat a fellow human it denies that other person their ability to present themselves to you and be judged on their actual merits. To say that a black person should not be allowed to marry a white person is to deny them their humanity, their equality, their most basic right to be treated fairly and decently. It is not just a harmless world view rather it is the world view that led to slavery and the KKK and the Jim Crow laws. All views are not due equal hearing and equal respect. The public forum is not equally open to those that claim the earth is round vs the earth is flat. It is the duty of citizens to shout down those who continue to deny that the earth is round and tell them their "belief" is wrong and not worthy of equal time and in fact worthy of derision. If I were to state that all disabled children should be killed I would hope you wouldn't comment that all views need to be respected until they are acted upon. I would hope you would scream about what an inherently evil thought that is and that a person who holds that view ought to keep it silent or be severely criticized by everyone in the room if such an evil thought is even spoken.
On the other hand, your desire not to hire those who dress in a way to which you object may be based on some evidence or knowledge in which case you have discriminated, or made a choice based on knowledge. Or it may be prejudice depending on the thoughtfulness and completeness of your evidence gathering. We use the phrase "you have discriminating taste" as a compliment not an insult. So there is nothing wrong with discrimination, it only becomes wrong if you discriminate on the basis of ones prejudice.
So if a person says to me " I don't believe blacks should be allowed to marry real humans " which is the substance of the denial of interracial marriage, that is an opinion that needs to be vigorously opposed and openly derided if our culture is to continue to make progress against bigotry.

Very well said and very enlightening. Much food for thought and greater perception. Thank you Blueash.

[graciegirl]

Gracie I don't think this has anything to do with smart and I called no one stupid. A couple things. Prejudice is different than discrimination although they are often intertwined. Prejudice means you judge a situation before having facts on which to base that decision. You pre judge. If it is the way you intend to treat a fellow human it denies that other person their ability to present themselves to you and be judged on their actual merits. To say that a black person should not be allowed to marry a white person is to deny them their humanity, their equality, their most basic right to be treated fairly and decently. It is not just a harmless world view rather it is the world view that led to slavery and the KKK and the Jim Crow laws. All views are not due equal hearing and equal respect. The public forum is not equally open to those that claim the earth is round vs the earth is flat. It is the duty of citizens to shout down those who continue to deny that the earth is round and tell them their "belief" is wrong and not worthy of equal time and in fact worthy of derision. If I were to state that all disabled children should be killed I would hope you wouldn't comment that all views need to be respected until they are acted upon. I would hope you would scream about what an inherently evil thought that is and that a person who holds that view ought to keep it silent or be severely criticized by everyone in the room if such an evil thought is even spoken.
On the other hand, your desire not to hire those who dress in a way to which you object may be based on some evidence or knowledge in which case you have discriminated, or made a choice based on knowledge. Or it may be prejudice depending on the thoughtfulness and completeness of your evidence gathering. We use the phrase "you have discriminating taste" as a compliment not an insult. So there is nothing wrong with discrimination, it only becomes wrong if you discriminate on the basis of ones prejudice.
So if a person says to me " I don't believe blacks should be allowed to marry real humans " which is the substance of the denial of interracial marriage, that is an opinion that needs to be vigorously opposed and openly derided if our culture is to continue to make progress against bigotry.

Your patience and understanding of my lack of knowledge in this area was respectful and helpful. You have helped me see things differently.

[njbchbum]

blueash -

you posted:

'All views are not due equal hearing and equal respect. The public forum is not equally open to those that claim the earth is round vs the earth is flat.'
- i ask you, who made those decisions?

'It is the duty of citizens to shout down those who continue to deny that the earth is round and tell them their "belief" is wrong and not worthy of equal time and in fact worthy of derision.'
- please clarify who it is that made shouting down anyone's opinion a duty of anyone else, telling anyone they are wrong and especially are not worthy of anything but derision?

'If I were to state that all disabled children should be killed I would hope you wouldn't comment that all views need to be respected until they are acted upon. I would hope you would scream about what an inherently evil thought that is and that a person who holds that view ought to keep it silent or be severely criticized by everyone in the room if such an evil thought is even spoken.'
- seems to me that is the verbal equivalent of biblical stoning!

[ilovetv]

So you believe that every point of view is equally valid?

Of course not!!! Everybody has an equally valid RIGHT to THINK what they think!! And everybody has an equal right according to the 1st Amendment to SPEAK their thoughts, too!

As I said before, it's nobody's business if somebody thinks something others consider "racist", as long as that person does not act on that thought to do harm to, for example, an inter-racial couple.

Go to this book linked, by Caroline Kennedy who's certainly no "racist", written in the early 1990's, on the Bill of Rights illustrated by actual Supreme Court cases and their rulings.

Read the first chapter shown, on a most instructive Supreme Court Case case: "Freedom of Speech: Missouri Knights of the Ku Klux Klan vs. Kansas City"

In Our Defense - C Kennedy - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=5Hry5frLOjQC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Missouri+Knights+of+the+Ku+Klux+Klan+vs.+Kansas +City&source=bl&ots=dzu7ZYEckL&sig=PFhq4UenbMat0tyQ37gpbAjW6dc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FU7pUYKmNIa49QSDh4GwDg&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Missouri%20Knights%20of%20the%20Ku%20Klux%20Klan %20vs.%20Kansas%20City&f=false)

[njbchbum]

mgjm -
you posted, 'So you believe that every point of view is equally valid?'

please define valid. if a point of view is valid to the person who holds it - does someone or many people saying that it is not valid make it invalid or any less real to its owner?

perhaps every point of view is not valid to everyone - but that would not make it invalid - would it?

[angiefox10]

Simple definition of racist is;

S h a r p t o n

J a c k s o n

I know people don't know much about these two men. Here are a couple of things I DO know. Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson don't do anything without being asked. If they are not asked to help a situation... they don't go in.

Another thing I know is that they both help ALL people. I have worked with them (co partnering) and have seen what they've done for all races first hand... it got up close and personal when I almost lost my job in 2008.

My very large corporation decided to hack the people who were close to retirement. I didn't ask Mr. Jackson to step in, but a friend of my husband's did. Thanks to him nine of us... All races kept our jobs until we were ready to retire! Trust me..... when he stepped in... it was a VERY big deal! He did it quietly and discreetly... but I was told he was involved and getting it done... by his group and my company!

No one knows about that... it wasn't news worthy to put in the paper.

A lot of what they do for us white people... isn't news worthy to put in the paper. It just doesn't make good news.

But... haters gonna hate....

[quirky3]

I know people don't know much about these two men. Here are a couple of things I DO know. Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson don't do anything without being asked. If they are not asked to help a situation... they don't go in.

Another thing I know is that they both help ALL people. I have worked with them (co partnering) and have seen what they've done for all races first hand... it got up close and personal when I almost lost my job in 2008.

My very large corporation decided to hack the people who were close to retirement. I didn't ask Mr. Jackson to step in, but a friend of my husband's did. Thanks to him nine of us... All races kept our jobs until we were ready to retire! Trust me..... when he stepped in... it was a VERY big deal! He did it quietly and discreetly... but I was told he was involved and getting it done... by his group and my company!

No one knows about that... it wasn't news worthy to put in the paper.

A lot of what they do for us white people... isn't news worthy to put in the paper. It just doesn't make good news.

But... haters gonna hate....

Wow! Thanks for sharing that first hand experience!

[ilovetv]

I know people don't know much about these two men. Here are a couple of things I DO know. Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson don't do anything without being asked. If they are not asked to help a situation... they don't go in.

Another thing I know is that they both help ALL people. I have worked with them (co partnering) and have seen what they've done for all races first hand... it got up close and personal when I almost lost my job in 2008.

My very large corporation decided to hack the people who were close to retirement. I didn't ask Mr. Jackson to step in, but a friend of my husband's did. Thanks to him nine of us... All races kept our jobs until we were ready to retire! Trust me..... when he stepped in... it was a VERY big deal! He did it quietly and discreetly... but I was told he was involved and getting it done... by his group and my company!

No one knows about that... it wasn't news worthy to put in the paper.

A lot of what they do for us white people... isn't news worthy to put in the paper. It just doesn't make good news.

But... haters gonna hate....

Stereotyping and labeling as "haters" everyone who doesn't have your same opinion negates your claims of being so loftily "open-minded, tolerant and liberal".

[Bucco]

I know people don't know much about these two men. Here are a couple of things I DO know. Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson don't do anything without being asked. If they are not asked to help a situation... they don't go in.

Another thing I know is that they both help ALL people. I have worked with them (co partnering) and have seen what they've done for all races first hand... it got up close and personal when I almost lost my job in 2008.

My very large corporation decided to hack the people who were close to retirement. I didn't ask Mr. Jackson to step in, but a friend of my husband's did. Thanks to him nine of us... All races kept our jobs until we were ready to retire! Trust me..... when he stepped in... it was a VERY big deal! He did it quietly and discreetly... but I was told he was involved and getting it done... by his group and my company!

No one knows about that... it wasn't news worthy to put in the paper.

A lot of what they do for us white people... isn't news worthy to put in the paper. It just doesn't make good news.

But... haters gonna hate....

There is much truth in what you say, I am glad he was able to help you (Jackson) in your company.

First 1/2 correct thing you say is they are invited. Yes, I believe that to be true TODAY. My problem is that was not always the case for either of them. They both made their career INTERFERING.....you can check facts on Jackson and his disputed and proven lies about his early years with MLK..you can check lots of stuff on Sharpton and his escapades. THIS does not make them bad in itself......to support injustice is a good thing, but to USE injustice for personal gains with no regard to truth or ironically justice to accomplish your goals is not admirable.

Since you know "first hand" what Sharpton, for example has down for white people I will have to accept your word, but there has been zero evidence shown publicly and in fact his comments on Jews, Mormons and whites are legion and disgusting.

Where I think you are absolutely correct is that they are USED as tools at this stage of their lives, which does not make it right. If we are to judge people by their actions and WORDS (which you cannot erase) then I will still say they both fit the true definition of racist.

[Golfingnut]

Both Al and Jesse want equality for black Americans so if leaning in the direction of giving them the longer straw is in my opinion, a day late, and a dollar short. For that reason, I feel they deserve a lot of leeway when referring to being racist against whites. We have been evil to them for hundreds of years, so again, they should have a free pass on rasisum.

[graciegirl]

What Indy dealmaker said in another thread, or was it this one?

We aren't going to change anyone's mind.

I am pretty content with my philosophy of life.

I think most of us are doing the right thing by trying to be respectful of others.

[njbchbum]

I know people don't know much about these two men. Here are a couple of things I DO know. Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson don't do anything without being asked. If they are not asked to help a situation... they don't go in.

Another thing I know is that they both help ALL people. I have worked with them (co partnering) and have seen what they've done for all races first hand... it got up close and personal when I almost lost my job in 2008.

My very large corporation decided to hack the people who were close to retirement. I didn't ask Mr. Jackson to step in, but a friend of my husband's did. Thanks to him nine of us... All races kept our jobs until we were ready to retire! Trust me..... when he stepped in... it was a VERY big deal! He did it quietly and discreetly... but I was told he was involved and getting it done... by his group and my company!

No one knows about that... it wasn't news worthy to put in the paper.

A lot of what they do for us white people... isn't news worthy to put in the paper. It just doesn't make good news.

But... haters gonna hate....

that's a wonderful thing, angiefox10! perhaps it should have made it to the papers - i believe they could use some good press when it is deserved. wish i could think of something either has done for me and mine.

maybe the city of chicago should ask one or both of them to go in and help their city if they have not already. but i would think that if the rainbow coalition or any other group had a plan in that city - we would know about it.

[Golfingnut]

What Indy dealmaker said in another thread, or was it this one?

We aren't going to change anyone's mind.

I am pretty content with my philosophy of life.

I think most of us are doing the right thing by trying to be respectful of others.

I agree and just hope for the respect I give will be returned.

[Bucco]

What Indy dealmaker said in another thread, or was it this one?

We aren't going to change anyone's mind.

I am pretty content with my philosophy of life.

I think most of us are doing the right thing by trying to be respectful of others.

All right on. I am telling you individual people can be hateful, but the vast majority are fair and tolerant.

[Golfingnut]

All right on. I am telling you individual people can be hateful, but the vast majority are fair and tolerant.

Agree, the vast majority are fair and respectfully.

[mgjim]

mgjm -
you posted, 'So you believe that every point of view is equally valid?'

please define valid. if a point of view is valid to the person who holds it - does someone or many people saying that it is not valid make it invalid or any less real to its owner?

perhaps every point of view is not valid to everyone - but that would not make it invalid - would it?

Got this from the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

1: having legal efficacy or force; especially : executed with the proper legal authority and formalities <a valid contract>
2
a : well-grounded or justifiable : being at once relevant and meaningful <a valid theory>
b : logically correct <a valid argument> <valid inference>
3: appropriate to the end in view : EFFECTIVE <every craft has its own valid methods>
4: conforming to accepted principles of sound biological classification

I have to acknowledge that whatever you believe is what you believe and there isn't anything I, or anyone else, can do about it.

It's just that I don't personally believe that every thought holds equal weight in the grand scheme of things.

For example, the other day, I thought it might be nice if all there weren't any mosquitos. While that might be a good thing for me, it would be a bad thing for other life forms (bats and birds). I concluded that it was a pretty unrealistic and, therefore, a fairly useless thought.

Likewise, if you really believe that inter-racial marriage is a bad thing, you eventually have to come to the conclusion that it's not going to end no matter what you believe. At some point, you've got to stop being against it unless you are an unthinking individual.

Does that answer your question?

[njbchbum]

Got this from the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

1: having legal efficacy or force; especially : executed with the proper legal authority and formalities <a valid contract>
2
a : well-grounded or justifiable : being at once relevant and meaningful <a valid theory>
b : logically correct <a valid argument> <valid inference>
3: appropriate to the end in view : EFFECTIVE <every craft has its own valid methods>
4: conforming to accepted principles of sound biological classification

I have to acknowledge that whatever you believe is what you believe and there isn't anything I, or anyone else, can do about it.

It's just that I don't personally believe that every thought holds equal weight in the grand scheme of things.

For example, the other day, I thought it might be nice if all there weren't any mosquitos. While that might be a good thing for me, it would be a bad thing for other life forms (bats and birds). I concluded that it was a pretty unrealistic and, therefore, a fairly useless thought.

Likewise, if you really believe that inter-racial marriage is a bad thing, you eventually have to come to the conclusion that it's not going to end no matter what you believe. At some point, you've got to stop being against it unless you are an unthinking individual.

Does that answer your question?

mgjim -
i suppose it does...but i still cannot say that i agree with you...most of all re the concept that thoughts have to be assigned a weight - a thought is a thought - it means a lot to some and nothing to another - so what? do you survey people on how much they believe in their thought on a scale of 1 to 10? do you judge people on what you think the weight of their thought is?

i see validity in a more philosophical way rather than a legalese way; and sort of like in debating where something is valid or has more validity if a conclusion cannot be contradicted.

one never has to stop being against something or even in favor of something...they just need to accept the reality that regardless of how they feel about something, others will see it differently.

[gomoho]

Both Al and Jesse want equality for black Americans so if leaning in the direction of giving them the longer straw is in my opinion, a day late, and a dollar short. For that reason, I feel they deserve a lot of leeway when referring to being racist against whites. We have been evil to them for hundreds of years, so again, they should have a free pass on rasisum.

WOW - I sure hope I am totally misunderstanding this.

[Golfingnut]

WOW - I sure hope I am totally misunderstanding this.

Probably not. I know my view on this is not embraced by non minorities, but most will admit to the terrible wrong we have done thru the last several hundred years to African Americans. I do not wish to give up anything I have gained, but openly admit the unfair advantage I have had just because I am white and even more so because I am male.

[ilovetv]

Probably not. I know my view on this is not embraced by non minorities, but most will admit to the terrible wrong we have done thru the last several hundred years to African Americans. I do not wish to give up anything I have gained, but openly admit the unfair advantage I have had just because I am white and even more so because I am male.

What you consider an "unfair advantage" I would consider "a natural result" of whom my parents and ancestors were, and where they settled and raised their kids.

I don't think I nor anybody else needs to be punished for our nation's slave history, considering our ancestors came here after slavery was abolished and none of us even LIVED NEAR a slave or slave descendant, much less owned and mistreated one.

[mgjim]

mgjim -
i suppose it does...but i still cannot say that i agree with you...most of all re the concept that thoughts have to be assigned a weight - a thought is a thought - it means a lot to some and nothing to another - so what? do you survey people on how much they believe in their thought on a scale of 1 to 10? do you judge people on what you think the weight of their thought is?

i see validity in a more philosophical way rather than a legalese way; and sort of like in debating where something is valid or has more validity if a conclusion cannot be contradicted.

one never has to stop being against something or even in favor of something...they just need to accept the reality that regardless of how they feel about something, others will see it differently.

njbchbum -
I don't think we're that far apart on this issue except for this - I was in an inter-racial marriage and whenever I believed that we were the victims of racism it held a lot of weight with me and my wife. We experienced this from both races, by the way.

After my wife passed away, I experienced it less but my bi-racial kids still have to deal with racism on a daily basis.

When it becomes a part of your life, it carries more weight. When you don't have to deal with it, it carries less weight.

The problem is that people generally act on their thoughts whether they admit it or not.