The Pope on Gay Priests

[Golfingnut]

I would think he made the day for thousands of gay priests giving them the opertunity to come out. Very bold move for the Catholic Church. :pray:

[Taltarzac725]

Very brave move by the Pope. I really like this man's philosophy and life story.

[rubicon]

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive

[gomoho]

If priest are not supposed to be sexual - how is this okay?

[janmcn]

If priest are not supposed to be sexual - how is this okay?


When the pope said "Who am I to judge?", he could have been speaking to the general population and not only to fellow priests.

[jane032657]

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

[Golfingnut]

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive

I disagree, giving them the avenue to come out, will also give them the OK to come out and free them from unneeded guilt. There are and always will be gay priests, so allow that fact to surface and you will have much less child molestation. Making the Priests hide their true feelings is what causes the perversion. Being open, nonjudgmental and loving rather than being prejudicial will improve the scandalous Catholic Church.

[Golfingnut]

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

So absolutely true. :bigbow:

[Jim 9922]

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive
They all came out in Milwaukee years ago. Now the Milwaukee area Catholic Organization is bankrupt trying to avoid paying for past molestations and cover-ups. They set a great bunch of examples; the perverts and their leaders!:rant-rave:

[Golfingnut]

If priest are not supposed to be sexual - how is this okay?

Being sexual is a given to all men and women.

[Portia]

You go Jane..people need to realize that straight persons can also be pedophiles example " JERRY SANDUSKY NEED I say more....such a uprite citizen

[gomoho]

Being sexual is a given to all men and women.

But they take a vow of chastity. I am thrilled the Pope has opened the Catholic church to include everyone and not judge, but I still can't get over the comment about priests.

[tainsley]

Well stated Jane! And just who are we to sit in judgement of anyone?

[jane032657]

I spent a good part of my life developing programs for children and adults who have been victims of sexual abuse. Sorry but Daddy, Grandpa, Uncles, Best Buddy of Dad, Boy Scout Leader, Football Coach, Best Friend's Dad,...along with some women abusers such as teachers and swim coaches and moms...the list goes on because it is never exclusive. Those who make such uninformed and prejudicial comments are often the ones who do not want to look in the mirror and reflect on their own family history or their own personal and painful journies. 'Denial" is more than a river.

[graciegirl]

The Catholic church moves VERY slowly to change and has many, many difficulties with acceptance of knowledge that we all know is more valid than what it espouses.

BUT...it makes my old heart happy to see a truly kind man with a loving heart walk in the white robes. Perhaps he will move The Catholic Church forward. But don't expect too much.

[trapperjohn]

Sandusky wasn't a priest nor was he straight. He only molested boys so he was either bisexual or gay. And as deplorable as his actions were, he did NOT take a vow of celibacy.

Also...

The overwhelming majority of molesters of boys are men and far fewer women. Saying that both genders can be molesters is correct, but the facts overwhelming point to a majority of male molesters.

IMHO, the Pope was simply acknowledging that all priests have to deal with temptation

[gomoho]

I don't know Gracie, I think Pope Francis might be ushering in a new era in the Catholic church. He is so different from any Pope the church has ever had and not afraid to shake things up. He just may succeed in bringing the church back to where it should be. He has my prayers and hope for the future.

[billethkid]

Being sexual is a given to all men and women.

it may well be a given, but the priests do take an oath of celibacy, knowingly up front.

And we all know that in our fast moving and ever evolving permissive, no matter what it is OK society the reaction is most likely so what?

Ask guys like Weiner in NYC and the slug mayor in San Diego who are just examples of low lifes taking advantage of the new permissiveness in America.

btk

[Barefoot]

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

I spent a good part of my life developing programs for children and adults who have been victims of sexual abuse. Sorry but Daddy, Grandpa, Uncles, Best Buddy of Dad, Boy Scout Leader, Football Coach, Best Friend's Dad,...along with some women abusers such as teachers and swim coaches and moms...the list goes on because it is never exclusive. Those who make such uninformed and prejudicial comments are often the ones who do not want to look in the mirror and reflect on their own family history or their own personal and painful journies. 'Denial" is more than a river.

Thanks Jane.

[Grannynance]

if you all want to do some good researching go to www.awsipe.com check sex and reformation Sept 13, 2012 see the Vatican answer. I don't think there is any change the new pope's statement is the same answer.
I don't see how a priest could take the vow of celibacy and practice any kind of sex. (Mr Webster states celibacy - the state of being unmarried abstention by law from marriage abstention from sexual incercouse) the last part abstention seems to apply. Not a judgement call just fact. Doesn't rock by boat what will be will be.

[ilovetv]

Some continue to purposely miss the point. There is a difference between acknowledging the intrinsic, God-given value and dignity of the person.....and validating their lifestyle/behavior that, by choice, disobeys the Commandments and rebels against God's authority over one's life.

The new pope said nothing new according to the Catechism section below that all would do well to read slowly and open-mindedly.

He just communicated the central message better than past ones did. He did not condone the behavior/lifestyle that breaches vows of chastity and celibacy. He reaffirmed that the person has all the worth and dignity anyone else has in God's eyes. It's the act of homosexual union that is condemned, not the person.

Nothing the new pope said approves homosexual priests having a sex partner, neither short nor long-term, nor hetero nor homosexual. They're vowed to not have sex of ANY kind!

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The integrity of the person

2338 The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.

2339 Chastity includes an apprenticeship in self-mastery which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.

"Man's dignity therefore requires him to act out of conscious and free choice, as moved and drawn in a personal way from within, and not by blind impulses in himself or by mere external constraint. Man gains such dignity when,......

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.......

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm)[/QUOTE]

[graciegirl]

I hope this isn't going to turn into a religious fight. It is one thing to argue political philosophy but religion is pretty near and dear to people's hearts. I grew up a Lutheran and became a Catholic and love both of those religions for various and sundry things. Neither are perfect I guess.

When people put the reformation into any sentence I cry out....tooooo long ago. Most huge changes were attempts to make any thing better and some did and some didn't. Religion is a highly personal and very sacred thing to most of us. It isn't logical but most of us hold on to some tenets of some kind of religion, if it is only tradition. It is part and parcel of our lives and if God lives, he/she is the only person who knows if we are doin' it right.

Most faiths hold out kindness as one of the first things you learn. I hope most of us can work toward that premise in our dealings with other peoples religious beliefs.

But we won't. People are people.

And there is a door out of this thread. I think I will use it this time.

[TexaninVA]

Don't get me started. This is exactly the kind of thinking that allowed these pedophiles to thrive

Rubicon ... My thoughts as well and I agree with you. I was never molested as a kid but I was an altar boy for a while. The Church can simply never allow that kind of exploitation to ever again reoccur.

[billethkid]

Rubicon ... My thoughts as well and I agree with you. I was never molested as a kid but I was an altar boy for a while. The Church can simply never allow that kind of exploitation to ever again reoccur.
please let us not limit the behavior intollerance within the or a church. The problem is ever present where there is an adult male and young boys or girls.

And today's anything goes society, with x rated viewing on television and movies along with a growing permissive attitude does nothing except pervert some and then turn around and permit or look over others.

Example (again): perverts like Weiner in NY and the slug of a mayor in San Diego who defy moral principal and still pursue their intentions as if nothing happened. And I will remain polite by not offering an opinion about those who support or vote for such immoral :censored:

btk

[Bavarian]

The Pope Francis said a while back that there was a Gay Mafia in the Vatican, he seemed to imply he was to take care of that, the slanted, twisted LSM report implies that he did. I do not think that The Holy Father was giving a green light to priests having homosexual relations in violation of their oaths of celibacy.

He is also undoing the Summo Pontificam Moto Proprio of Benedict XVI to free up the Traditional Latin Mass by banning it in the Franciscan order.

[buggyone]

The poster who copied a section of the Catholic catechism regarding homosexual behavior has to remember that is man made religious law.

[villagerjack]

Being sexual is a given to all men and women.

Priest are supposed to be celibate so " coming out" should not benefit them any more than letting them express themselves about their feelings toward women. Both are contrary to their vows. Both are wrong.

[Golfingnut]

Taking a vow does not do away with the sexual instinct of any man, priest or not. As a matter of fact being without sex for life would be harmful to the mental and physical health of any normal human being.

[billethkid]

I hear the merry go round cranking up

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[villagerjack]

Taking a vow does not do away with the sexual instinct of any man, priest or not. As a matter of fact being without sex for life would be harmful to the mental and physical health of any normal human being.

Thank you doctor.

[Bavarian]

The poster who copied a section of the Catholic catechism regarding homosexual behavior has to remember that is man made religious law.

The Catholic Church has written the new Catechism to better inform the faithful of the Faith especially after the Vatican II changes. If you are not a Catholic of what interest is this to you?

The discipline of Celibacy is made by The Church and it could change, but the Doctrine of an All-male priesthood was instituted by Christ and can not change.

Re this discussion on homosexuals, the Church has never hated anyone, just teaches against the sin. As would any religion do with regard to any sinner, of which we all are.

[Villages PL]

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

Excuse me but a priest who likes boys is gay. In other words, if a priest comes out as being gay it doesn't preclude him being a pedophile.

[Villages PL]

I would think he made the day for thousands of gay priests giving them the opertunity to come out. Very bold move for the Catholic Church. :pray:

The heading of this thread is amazinly suggestive: The Pope on Gay Priests: Am I the only who gets that? :D

[gomoho]

The heading of this thread is amazinly suggestive: The Pope on Gay Priests: Am I the only who gets that? :D

HAhahahahahahaha:a20:

[ijusluvit]

Here what was actually said...

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis told reporters, speaking in Italian but using the English word “gay.”

Francis’s words could not have been more different from those of Benedict XVI, who in 2005 wrote that homosexuality was “a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder.”

It is a profoundly important shift that Pope Francis will not judge gays (just as Christ chose not to do). His predecessor reinforced what he saw as an inexorable connection between homosexuality and intrinsic moral evil (i.e. having forbidden sex, pedophilia, and other forms of sexual abuse). The 'connection' was his judgement of homosexuals, and his leadership led many church leaders and members to make those judgements also. Those who were known to be gay have been shunned, despised and denied participation in church sacraments and ceremonies.

What's important is that the official papal authorization to continue discrimination against gays based on a judgement of their assumed behavior has been removed.

[ilovetv]

Here what was actually said...

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis told reporters, speaking in Italian but using the English word “gay.”

Francis’s words could not have been more different from those of Benedict XVI, who in 2005 wrote that homosexuality was “a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder.”

It is a profoundly important shift that Pope Francis will not judge gays (just as Christ chose not to do). His predecessor reinforced what he saw as an inexorable connection between homosexuality and intrinsic moral evil (i.e. having forbidden sex, pedophilia, and other forms of sexual abuse). The 'connection' was his judgement of homosexuals, and his leadership led many church leaders and members to make those judgements also. Those who were known to be gay have been shunned, despised and denied participation in church sacraments and ceremonies.

What's important is that the official papal authorization to continue discrimination against gays based on a judgement of their assumed behavior has been removed.

This statement, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” does not refer to priests who made vows of celibacy but choose to have sexual relations. It refers to all human beings in general, regarding their faith.

It says in another way that only God knows a person's heart and and only He knows the honesty/integrity of the person's faith, and that the pope does not judge the validity/truthfulness of the person's faith.

The pope does have the right/authority to "judge" (identify and call to repentance) any person whose chosen behavior defies God by breaking His Commandments.

It would be grossly mistaken to conclude that the pope and Catholic doctrine will no longer deem homosexual behavior to be prohibited, condemnable and alienating from God.

Within the professing Catholic human population, there is a subset of people--priests--over whom the Pope does have authority to declare their homosexual behavior to be prohibited and condemnable. This thread was mis-titled I think, by focusing on priests.

As for the pope's statement saying "who am I to judge (a person's faith)", a priest can be homosexual in his being and mental/emotional attractions to others without being "judged" by the pope or God, but the behavior of acting upon those attractions and having sexual relations is prohibited and will continue to be "judged" (identified and called to repentance) by the Church.

As always, people tend to interpret religious doctrine to make it fit their personal and political wants, instead of conforming to what God wants and what the Church teaches in order to draw the person nearer to God and his perfection in eternity.

[ijusluvit]

This statement, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” does not refer to priests who made vows of celibacy but choose to have sexual relations. It refers to all human beings in general, regarding their faith.

It says in another way that only God knows a person's heart and and only He knows the honesty/integrity of the person's faith, and that the pope does not judge the validity/truthfulness of the person's faith.

The pope does have the right/authority to "judge" (identify and call to repentance) any person whose chosen behavior defies God by breaking His Commandments.

It would be grossly mistaken to conclude that the pope and Catholic doctrine will no longer deem homosexual behavior to be prohibited, condemnable and alienating from God.

Within the general human population, there is a subset of people (priests) over whom the Pope does have authority to declare their homosexual behavior to be prohibited and condemnable. This thread was mis-titled I think, by focusing on priests.

As for the pope's statement saying "who am I to judge (a person's faith), a priest can be homosexual in his being and mental/emotional attractions to others without being "judged" by the pope or God, but the behavior of acting upon those attractions and having sexual relations is prohibited.

As always, people tend to interpret religious doctrine to make it fit their personal and political wants, instead of conforming to what God wants and what the Church teaches in order to draw the person nearer to God and his perfection in eternity.


I'm not sure how any of your statements change the facts about this important shift in the church's position on gays.

In the first paragraph you could extend Francis' statement to include more than gay priests. If that were true it wouldn't change anything, but it would make the shift even more global.
Next paragraph is a bulls-eye, and a virtual restatement of my position.
Next paragraph misses the point. Francis says he will not judge people. It says nothing of judging behavior.
Next paragraph - answered above. In fact the Pope and other church leaders have the authority to judge the behavior of any Catholic.
Next paragraph - ok, you again distinguish between a group of people and human behavior. That's the idea.
Last paragraph - Not sure to whom you are referring and how it fits this issue.

[zonerboy]

The pope said that he did not feel it was his place to judge persons who have a homosexual (gay) orientation, particularly when they are persons of good will who are seeking a relationship with God.
He did not give homosexual priests permission to break their vows of celibacy, or to become sexually active, or to engage in sexual acts with minors.
We are all sinners, by the way. And it is not our job to be pointing fingers at others and claiming their sin is way worse than our own. Just leave the judging to God. That's God's job.

[graciegirl]

The pope said that he did not feel it was his place to judge persons who have a homosexual (gay) orientation, particularly when they are persons of good will who are seeking a relationship with God.
He did not give homosexual priests permission to break their vows of celibacy, or to become sexually active, or to engage in sexual acts with minors.
We are all sinners, by the way. And it is not our job to be pointing fingers at others and claiming their sin is way worse than our own. Just leave the judging to God. That's God's job.


Good morning zonerboy. You speak kindly and with wisdom.

[Barefoot]

The pope said that he did not feel it was his place to judge persons who have a homosexual (gay) orientation, particularly when they are persons of good will who are seeking a relationship with God.
He did not give homosexual priests permission to break their vows of celibacy, or to become sexually active, or to engage in sexual acts with minors.
We are all sinners, by the way. And it is not our job to be pointing fingers at others and claiming their sin is way worse than our own. Just leave the judging to God. That's God's job.

Your post is a breath of fresh air. :mademyday:

[Schaumburger]

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

:agree: Thank you, jane, for this post.

[Schaumburger]

The Catholic church moves VERY slowly to change and has many, many difficulties with acceptance of knowledge that we all know is more valid than what it espouses.

BUT...it makes my old heart happy to see a truly kind man with a loving heart walk in the white robes. Perhaps he will move The Catholic Church forward. But don't expect too much.

Gracie, Agree with you on that. I had too many disagreements with the Catholic church hierarchy to call myself a Catholic. So I left the Catholic church in 1996 and joined the Episcopal church. Close to half of the people at my church are former Catholics.

[gomoho]

Gracie, Agree with you on that. I had too many disagreements with the Catholic church hierarchy to call myself a Catholic. So I left the Catholic church in 1996 and joined the Episcopal church. Close to half of the people at my church are former Catholics.

I too chose to leave the Catholic church a while back, but Pope Francis certainly has my attention. He seems to really walk the walk.

[Bavarian]

And the Anglicans are returning to Rome, at least they were under Pope Benedict XVI, no women "priests", etc.

[duffysmom]

And the Anglicans are returning to Rome, at least they were under Pope Benedict XVI, no women "priests", etc.

:confused:Somehow I doubt this but if true, how sad.

[Bavarian]

:confused:Somehow I doubt this but if true, how sad.

They convert the entire Parish, their "priests" are ordained priests. They keep their own liturgy but are under the Pope, just like the Eastern Catholic Churches are.

[rubicon]

You go Jane..people need to realize that straight persons can also be pedophiles example " JERRY SANDUSKY NEED I say more....such a uprite citizen

I really do not want to hurt anyone's feeling here... but a gay priest attracted to boys is a gay priest attracted to boys and is a pedophile. A straight priest attracted to little girls is also a pedophile. In either case they are suffering from a mental disorder. In either case these guys should have been excommunicated, defrock and sent to jail. Jerry Sandusky is probably bi-sexual and that also is a mental disorder in my view. I say in my view because of political backing the DSM removed homosexuality from it list of mental disorders in 1983, yet people describe as obese are now included as having a mental disorder . Review the listing in the DSM of mental disorders and compare them to homosexuality and tell me it wasn't a political move.

Personally I do not care what people do in their private lives as long as they keep it private and they do not harm anyone. Priests not only harmed kids they did great damage to the catholic church just as Sandusky did tp Penn State and pedophile teachers do to schools,


Personal Best Regards:

[Patty55]

When I heard the Pope's statement I thought he was speaking of Gays, not Gay priests. If he was speaking of Gay priests what difference would that make? Wouldn't the Gay priest and the straight priest both have taken the same vow of celibacy? Why is it assumed that the Gay man is incapable of being celibate?

How does being a pedophile tie into this? I'm just not getting this.

[ijusluvit]

I really do not want to hurt anyone's feeling here... but a gay priest attracted to boys is a gay priest attracted to boys and is a pedophile. A straight priest attracted to little girls is also a pedophile. In either case they are suffering from a mental disorder. In either case these guys should have been excommunicated, defrock and sent to jail. Jerry Sandusky is probably bi-sexual and that also is a mental disorder in my view. I say in my view because of political backing the DSM removed homosexuality from it list of mental disorders in 1983, yet people describe as obese are now included as having a mental disorder . Review the listing in the DSM of mental disorders and compare them to homosexuality and tell me it wasn't a political move.

Personally I do not care what people do in their private lives as long as they keep it private and they do not harm anyone. Priests not only harmed kids they did great damage to the catholic church just as Sandusky did tp Penn State and pedophile teachers do to schools,


Personal Best Regards:

I respectfully disagree with a couple of your conclusions. A gay priest is not a pedophile until he ACTS on his tendencies. These actions are subject to judgement, but the person should not be discriminated against or condemned until he acts in an inappropriate way. Having spent years in Catholic seminary training, I know hundreds of priests. At least two of them are gay, but I don't think very many people know it. They are both held in the highest esteem by their congregations. To my knowledge, their careers are filled with many years of nothing but good works. If the Pope knew these men, they would be the kind of gay priests he referred to in his remarks.

We all have our 'tendencies'. To say that someone whose tendencies are not entirely directed toward a single sexual orientation has a mental illness is an unsupportable stretch. Again, if someone acts inappropriately, their conduct should be judged. It may also be later determined that some of those people are mentally ill. Most, I believe, are entirely free of mental illness and therefore subject to standard prosecution and sentencing penalties

[Golfingnut]

When I heard the Pope's statement I thought he was speaking of Gays, not Gay priests. If he was speaking of Gay priests what difference would that make? Wouldn't the Gay priest and the straight priest both have taken the same vow of celibacy? Why is it assumed that the Gay man is incapable of being celibate?

How does being a pedophile tie into this? I'm just not getting this.

Yes. Being gay does not make you bad. Being a straight hard working member of your local church that volunteers time and donates money to charity yet has a little sexual attraction to children is very bad and needs immediate help or Confinement.

[Patty55]

Yes. Being gay does not make you bad. Being a straight hard working member of your local church that volunteers time and donates money to charity yet has a little sexual attraction to children is very bad and needs immediate help or Confinement.

Being a pedophile has nothing to do with the church, having a "little attraction" to children is not just very bad, it is a crime if and when you act upon it. Having an attraction to children and acting upon it is a criminal act whether you are a street sweeper, mailman, the guy down the street or most commonly, the mothers boyfriend. You all know that there are women pedaphiles, don't you? The irony is that teenage boys usually don't complain.

[eweissenbach]

There is much to admire about "capital C" Catholicism, except for the concept of infallibility of the Pope, not to mention the politics of the priesthood. The military type chain of command is largely what has created the pedophilia problem among priests by covering up their indiscretions and moving them away from the parishes where the acts occurred and moving them to another parish, often to repeat the same behavior. The Pope is just a man who has served his church well, and earned the respect of his peers sufficiently to be elected to his exalted position. I could never be a part of a religion, or any group, that was expected, or required, to treat the leader as though he or she were infallible. It sounds as though he is trying to create a more inclusive environment in the church, but we will see how it plays out.

[gomoho]

Okay - maybe I'm being stupid again. In my mind being "gay" is all about attraction and sexual orientation. Doesn't affect your job or how you clean your house or how you pay your bills. The difference between someone straight and someone gay is a sexual orientation - period. Sooooo if a priest vows celibacy - how does that equate to a sexual orientation??? Does that mean they are attracted to men, but don't act on it just as a straight priest might be attracted to women, but don't act on it?

[Patty55]

Okay - maybe I'm being stupid again. In my mind being "gay" is all about attraction and sexual orientation. Doesn't affect your job or how you clean your house or how you pay your bills. The difference between someone straight and someone gay is a sexual orientation - period. Sooooo if a priest vows celibacy - how does that equate to a sexual orientation??? Does that mean they are attracted to men, but don't act on it just as a straight priest might be attracted to women, but don't act on it?

Yep, that's how I see it. The same way a straight man can be celibate so can a Gay man. Just because they're Gay doesn't mean they have to act on it.

[graciegirl]

I have said this before and I will say it again. Talking about religion, that my dear grandmother warned me against...talking about it ...often causes very hurt feelings.

Like many things that affect us, it isn't completely rational, but often needed.

Maybe it is "pie in the sky" and maybe those we loved will be waiting, but it is a very personal thing and a very, very sensitive subject to most.

If I get to heaven and it is the real deal, I promise I'll save a place over in The Village section for y'all.

[senior citizen]

.............

[senior citizen]

..........

[ivanhoe]

Keep gay priests in nunneries...problem solved!

[senior citizen]

.............

[Schaumburger]

There is much to admire about "capital C" Catholicism, except for the concept of infallibility of the Pope, not to mention the politics of the priesthood. The military type chain of command is largely what has created the pedophilia problem among priests by covering up their indiscretions and moving them away from the parishes where the acts occurred and moving them to another parish, often to repeat the same behavior. The Pope is just a man who has served his church well, and earned the respect of his peers sufficiently to be elected to his exalted position. I could never be a part of a religion, or any group, that was expected, or required, to treat the leader as though he or she were infallible. It sounds as though he is trying to create a more inclusive environment in the church, but we will see how it plays out.

Ed, you are spot on. Too many Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinals covered up for pedophile priests and passed them around from parish to parish, and this went on for decades in some cases. Some of the church hierarchy should have served jail time for this. And the parishioners in the pews in some dioceses will be paying for this for a long time. Dioceses in Portland, Milwaukee, San Diego, Tucson, Davenport, IA, Spokane, WA, Wilmington, DE and Fairbanks, AK have filed for bankruptcy protection because of the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church.

I am not a priest basher or a Catholic Church basher. There were and are many good Catholic priests who have served and are still serving their parishioners. Most of my extended family is still Catholic. I could have joined the Catholic group, Call to Action, which is trying to bring the Catholic Church into the 21st Century, but most of the changes they are working for probably will not happen in my lifetime, so I voted with my feet and joined the Episcopal Church. Just my 2 cents.

[senior citizen]

..............

[rubicon]

I respectfully disagree with a couple of your conclusions. A gay priest is not a pedophile until he ACTS on his tendencies. These actions are subject to judgement, but the person should not be discriminated against or condemned until he acts in an inappropriate way. Having spent years in Catholic seminary training, I know hundreds of priests. At least two of them are gay, but I don't think very many people know it. They are both held in the highest esteem by their congregations. To my knowledge, their careers are filled with many years of nothing but good works. If the Pope knew these men, they would be the kind of gay priests he referred to in his remarks.

We all have our 'tendencies'. To say that someone whose tendencies are not entirely directed toward a single sexual orientation has a mental illness is an unsupportable stretch. Again, if someone acts inappropriately, their conduct should be judged. It may also be later determined that some of those people are mentally ill. Most, I believe, are entirely free of mental illness and therefore subject to standard prosecution and sentencing penalties

Hi ijusluvit: First I agree with those who believe we should not bring religion in on this issue. Religion is based on blind faith and you either have it or are unsure or you don't have it.

The subject of homosexuality is difficult because it is explosive and very personal. I strongly agree with the philosophy of love the person ,hate the sin. The hedonistic behavior portrayed by some gays to me clearly demonstrates mental issues. However, I do not desire to paint all gays with a broad brush which is the reason I said keep it private. Indeed my nature is to support the underdog and in the past I have come to the defense of women, blacks and the disabled...and yes people who made fun of gays as it is all unproductive behavior.

A gay priest married my daughter and his comments made me very uncomfortable especially when at the dress rehearsal dinner he state that his superiors forbid him from being around little boys.

In my mind my daughter was not actually married nor would I confess my sins to him. In fairness I also avoided priests I knew were sleeping around with woman.

Unfortunately homosexuality abortion and race because of the extreme views by some people this nation can never have an honest dialogue and I find that particularly distressing.

Personal Best Regards:

[Bavarian]

Hi ijusluvit: First I agree with those who believe we should not bring religion in on this issue. Religion is based on blind faith and you either have it or are unsure or you don't have it.

The subject of homosexuality is difficult because it is explosive and very personal. I strongly agree with the philosophy of love the person ,hate the sin. The hedonistic behavior portrayed by some gays to me clearly demonstrates mental issues. However, I do not desire to paint all gays with a broad brush which is the reason I said keep it private. Indeed my nature is to support the underdog and in the past I have come to the defense of women, blacks and the disabled...and yes people who made fun of gays as it is all unproductive behavior.

A gay priest married my daughter and his comments made me very uncomfortable especially when at the dress rehearsal dinner he state that his superiors forbid him from being around little boys.

In my mind my daughter was not actually married nor would I confess my sins to him. In fairness I also avoided priests I knew were sleeping around with woman.

Unfortunately homosexuality abortion and race because of the extreme views by some people this nation can never have an honest dialogue and I find that particularly distressing.

Personal Best Regards:

Your daughter and her husband married each other, the Priest was the witness. Now, I would have some worries about receiving any Sacraments from him, just as I do from Priests who do not celebrate Mass as written, say Mass in clown costumes, etc. But I think your daughter was legally married in The Church.

Pope John XXIII said no one with homosexual tendencies can be ordained. These problems have made it bad for everyone. Our K of C Council wanted to get the teenagers to help the less young parisonners with raking leaves in the Fall, but couldn't since Adults can not work with younger people, per Archdiocese. So the kids don't learn to help others and the less young can't get their leaves raked.

[Villages PL]

Excuse me but being gay has nothing to do with pedophilia. The sexual abuse of children by Priests has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with opportunity, power, control, and abuse. Being gay is no different than being straight, except in who you choose for your partner. Life is the same and your assumption to me in mortifying.

According to my dictionary and according to internet definitions of pedophilia, it has everything to do with sexuality. Webster's definition: Pedophilia, n. sexual desire in an adult for a child. Online: Sex or sexual activity with children who have not reached puberty.