What Do You Think About Golf Modifications

[rubicon]

Experts all agree that the three things that deter people from playing golf are: (1) it takes too long to play (2) it costs too much (3) its too difficult to play.

Bob Griffoen Centreville MI and owner of Island Hills Golf Club championship 18 hole course has inner loops where people can play either 5, 8, or 12 holes of golf. He also extends the cup to 8 inches once a year to increase participation. He offers one free lesson let's kids play free and if someone shows up without clubs he hands them a set of Adams and he offers reduced prices for many during the week days(WSJ 8/3-4/13).

What do you think about golf modifications and exactly how far should the experts go in re-engineering the game of golf? In fact should golf be re-engineered or remain as is. Keep in mind that starting in the 1950's golf course architects and engineers have progressively design and increased the difficulty of courses. As you recall there has been more than one golf pro who cried foul because of this.

[MikeV]

Whenever I play golf I always wonder what my score would be if the hole was just an inch or two bigger. So often we amateurs miss the hole by just a little. When I watch golf on TV I always think how flat and even the greens are near the hole and wonder why when I play there is often a dome around the cup. So to answer your question I would love to play a course once in a while where the modifications were done.

[zcaveman]

Play them as they are. No modifications. If you are having problems move up to the next set of tees.

I play with a group that plays from the forward tees and I shoot a great game, The other group I play with makes me shoot from the gold tees and I shoot an okay game.

Play from the tees that make you feel good and enjoy the game.

Don't try to change the game.

Z

[justjim]

I don't think the answer lies in HUGE modification----especially here in TV. If golfers would tee it up from their proper tee box and play ready up golf----that would solve most of the issues. When a guy/gal can only hit the ball 180-190 yards, they shouldn't be playing from the back tees. For "others" who are not retired-----TIME is a huge issue and for others money. Too many of the new courses are too long and difficult for the average golfer. A lot of them were built to accommodate more houses----not for golfers. We need more 9 hole easy to walk courses----less time and less money IMHO.

[rubicon]

I am a purist so I agree. I believe the handicap system helps balance the playing field. However, I noticed that on many executive courses slow play is a problem even if golfers have moved forward.

There will be much debate on this issue around the country because most good players will not want the game dumbed down while most social players would welcome it.

What is the compromise?....or is there one?

[justjim]

What's done is done. Maybe some of the newer longer courses can be modified with some more friendly tees but because of the real estate they will still be difficult to walk. Hopefully, when some new venues are built they can be time and walker friendly. The executive courses in TV generally have a number of really beginner golfers----which sometimes slow play but doesn't have to if they play ready up golf and pickup after double or triple bogey. Too many times I've seen somebody trying to teach a beginner how to hit the golf ball on the executive course which should be done on a practice range. Lessons are the best money you can spend on golf----especially when just learning.

[Indydealmaker]

We live in a world now where having just one winner is a bad thing. So, we dumb down the game to "level" the playing field. Aspiring to be better is now an undesirable trait.

[Bosoxfan]

We live in a world now where having just one winner is a bad thing. So, we dumb down the game to "level" the playing field. Aspiring to be better is now an undesirable trait.

Excellent post!! :BigApplause:

[gomoho]

As a new golfer (one year now) I think TV offers what you are talking about. Turtle Mound is a very friendly course and they go up from there as far as difficulty. I understand most people outside the bubble don't have the ability to choose from such a wide range of courses, but that is one more thing that makes golf in TV great.

[ugotme]

Personally I believe we should leave the game alone.

As previously stated, play from your "correct" tees and accept what you shoot.
While playing a modified game may be fun - it isn't golf!

I've seen too many players who either move the ball or take a drop for no reason then come in and say " I shot an 83" (or whatever). Sounds great but was probably more like a 93.

Accept what your handicap is and try to improve!

FORE !

[TheCollierCpl]

Enlarged hole is nothing new. Back in Ben Hogans time they experimented for a season with a larger hole. Why did they go back to the 4 1/4"? Because the larger hole fVored the better golfers.
How bout that

[TheCollierCpl]

Personally I believe we should leave the game alone.

As previously stated, play from your "correct" tees and accept what you shoot.
While playing a modified game may be fun - it isn't golf!

I've seen too many players who either move the ball or take a drop for no reason then come in and say " I shot an 83" (or whatever). Sounds great but was probably more like a 93.

Accept what your handicap is and try to improve!

FORE !

Absolutely. Golf is cool in that it is handicapped and has different tees. Any one at any age can compete against anyone with the system. It is Yu against the course. There were some studies done, unofficially, that
Estimate that the normal occasional golfer who says he breaks a hundred is probably shooting in the mid teens. Why, mulligans, conceded putts, improper play when out of bounds or lost ball, etc.
I agree, no matter wht your score, record it, you're only cheating yourself. Just go out and have fun. If you snoot 130, well, it's 130. When you come down to 120 you have something to celebrate. It's all relative. Enjoy the get a way and the temporary espcape from reality.
And the complaint about how long it takes, heck at TV Ypu have the exec courses.lay em quickly on the easier courses until you get better.
If any of us were any good, we would be on television!

[graciegirl]

Personally I believe we should leave the game alone.

As previously stated, play from your "correct" tees and accept what you shoot.
While playing a modified game may be fun - it isn't golf!

I've seen too many players who either move the ball or take a drop for no reason then come in and say " I shot an 83" (or whatever). Sounds great but was probably more like a 93.

Accept what your handicap is and try to improve!

FORE !

I agree. And that goes for life too.

[Mallory]

My understanding of the USGA's three part initiative to increase participation and enjoyment of the game of golf to be phased in over the next few years is -
#1 - Play it forward. This first part has already started as you can see from TV spots and the new, forward, yellow tees here in The Villages.
#2 - Increasing the diameter of the hole form 4 1/4 inches to 6 inches. I don't believe this has stated yet anywhere.
#3 - Reducing 18 hole recreational courses to 12 holes. This hasn't started yet either.

These initiatives were proposed by Tom Weiskopf and are being championed by Jack Nicklaus.

If you want to make your opinions known, contact the USGA.

[ugotme]

I have started seeing articles about courses pushing the idea of playing 9 holes.

Less time, less money and more people can squeeze in a round.

Courses have reported higher revenues because those who will play 18 still do and those that can get in a quick round will now come out and play.

Must admit - haven't heard anything about enlarging the hole.

[DougB]

I think it would be great to make that hole where the ball goes through the windmill larger.

[DaleMN]

Golf is a hard game and I enjoy that challenge. I'm like a 9 handicapp and have fun whether I shoot 79 or 89. For me it's more about getting out in nice weather and being with friends. About the only thing that disappoints me is slow play. People should play from the tees that allow them the most success.

[fred53]

Well I like it the way it is. They don't lower the basket so that at 5'4" I can dunk....they don't make a tennis ball go slower...I could go on and on and feel that if someone wants to build a course for the golfing challenged(yes, I'm basketball, baseball and tennis challenged)then they should do so and see who comes. The thing about golf is that we can go out and play courses quite similar to the professionals...albeit shorter in length..

What would make the game more enjoyable without building or changing existing courses is for it to be taught realistically and that "par" is only a number and comparing yourself to a pro(in any sport)will always cause unrealistic expectations. Don't try to hit it far...don't try a shot you haven't practiced successfully and just have fun.

Making it less expensive is a noble idea, but I do not relish the idea of people who have no concept of what is socially acceptable over crowding the courses, leaving trash everywhere(yes, some people still throw their garbage on the ground and amazingly enough they're the same people who aren't polite, respectful of others or even realize everyone has the same rights). They're loud and boorish.

A larger cup would be nice, but it will not attract more people to the game...hitting the ball straight and in the air the right distance is the real challenge and nothing will make that easier for the uncoordinated. Cheaper greens fees would be great, but it will not attract more people to the game(you can easily spend a few hundred bucks at a pro baseball game that last a few hours...the stadiums are still full.

Golf is played and enjoyed the most by those who understand the challenge and even though we know we'll(or any pro for that matter)never master it. We enjoy the surroundings and the underlying connection that golf translates to living a good life.

[Lark7]

:BigApplause:We live in a world now where having just one winner is a bad thing. So, we dumb down the game to "level" the playing field. Aspiring to be better is now an undesirable trait.

So sad but true.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/smilies/BigApplause.gif

[blueash]

If the major complaint people have is slow play and about half the strokes occur on the green, then decreasing the time on the green would be the easiest cure. And it is not just the strokes, it is the time some golfers utilize to analyze their putt. I'd agree to a larger hole, or alternatively two holes on each green like we have multiple tee choices. If the "wrong" hole is in your line you get a free adjustment right or left one club length.

[fred53]

If the major complaint people have is slow play and about half the strokes occur on the green, then decreasing the time on the green would be the easiest cure. And it is not just the strokes, it is the time some golfers utilize to analyze their putt. I'd agree to a larger hole, or alternatively two holes on each green like we have multiple tee choices. If the "wrong" hole is in your line you get a free adjustment right or left one club length.

Or an automatic pick up after 2 putts...

[ajbrown]

From my perspective, the discussion of increasing the size of the hole is very disappointing. The fact that Jack Nicklaus has been an advocate is surprising. Maybe like many of us he started missing those 4 footers in his 50's :D.

Will it increase the pace of play? They say so, but doubtful IM<uneducated>O, especially in TV where a large percentage scoop up those 'sure things' anyway.

What it would do is keep me from playing a course that did enlarge the hole. As an example if TV decided to use larger holes at Glenview one day a week, I would not play there that day. I suspect it would NOT draw more players and possibly have the opposite affect in a golfing community.

For me personally golf is the hardest game I have ever played and that for me makes it the best game I have ever played. You do not move or react to situations, you stand there hitting a stationary object with no one guarding the target except your brain and it is a powerful obstruction between me and a great golf shot some times.

Golf 'perfection' is a pursuit for life where perfection is impossible but always chased. I would get no great thrill of shooting a low round on a golf course with 6 to 8 inch holes. I want to compare it against my best rounds from my lifelong pursuit of perfection.

Maybe that is just me.....

[rubicon]

Again I am a purist and noticed that most of those playing championship courses play by the rules and understand ready golf.

On the other hand just the opposite is so on executive courses too often and for all the reasons cited in previous posts. I also do not want the game dumbed down. I am not the best golfer but what drives me is to hit that pure shot more often and to work my handicap down. The 4 1/4 inch hole is the perfect fit. The reason putting is a problem is that people stand over the ball too long even longer than on a tee or fairway.

I also agree with the poster who worried about the types that would be drawn to golf if the cost were deeply reduced. You can see now that civility is losing this game. its personal but I am not one for stomach bumps even in football. By he way in conjunction with this aspect I saw for the first time since playing golf someone had left a trail of peanut shells on one of the executive courses. Can you imagine walking up to green and finding peanut shells on the green..Now there is a ready golfer for you

Given conceded putts, mulligan ignoring the rules of golf the game is dumbed down enough now. And with the handicap system players compete on a level play field. IMHO those advocating big changes are focused only on the prospects of profits.

[justjim]

We live in a world now where having just one winner is a bad thing. So, we dumb down the game to "level" the playing field. Aspiring to be better is now an undesirable trait.

I think that I understand where you are coming from and generally agree. Golf with its various tee boxes and handicap system has leveled the playing field and that is one of the great things about the game. It is also a game many can play even into their eighties and nineties. As you get older and develop health issues that affect your golf game, just being able to have fun and play is enough. Fore!

[Villages PL]

Experts all agree that the three things that deter people from playing golf are: (1) it takes too long to play (2) it costs too much (3) its too difficult to play.

Bob Griffoen Centreville MI and owner of Island Hills Golf Club championship 18 hole course has inner loops where people can play either 5, 8, or 12 holes of golf. He also extends the cup to 8 inches once a year to increase participation. He offers one free lesson let's kids play free and if someone shows up without clubs he hands them a set of Adams and he offers reduced prices for many during the week days(WSJ 8/3-4/13).

What do you think about golf modifications and exactly how far should the experts go in re-engineering the game of golf? In fact should golf be re-engineered or remain as is. Keep in mind that starting in the 1950's golf course architects and engineers have progressively design and increased the difficulty of courses. As you recall there has been more than one golf pro who cried foul because of this.


Here's what I would like to see: A golf course where you are only allowed to use one club. You pick your club, whichever one it might be, and you stick with it. (Just like the woman in The Villages who uses only a putter)

Then I would like to see every green have multiple holes, possibly as many as six or eight. And the idea would be to get on the green without having your ball fall into any of the holes. If your ball inadvertently falls into a hole, you would have to double the number of strokes that it took you to get there.

Therefore, what normally would be a hole-in-one would end up counting as two strokes. The best you could do would be a green-in-one.

Let's put a stop to the crazy fixation of getting balls in holes. :thumbup:

When you start a business or go to Los Vegas, you don't want to end up in the hole, do you? So, why do it on the golf course?