Bonds, home flippers and the likes

[gjbl8114]

Wondering what are your thoughts about purchasing a pre-owned with the enticement of Bond Paid being the key selling point? I'm finding these homes have few or minimal enhancements and are generally out of sync with true market value with very little rationale for their pricing? Is "BOND PAID" really that important an enticement to buyers causing them to ignore or lose sight of true market value? I've also discovered that quite a few of these properties are owned by "Flippers." I would have thought that "house flipping" would be very risky these days, even in The Villages. But, then again, it's really just an investment that pays a hell of lot more dividends than banks and investment shares these days huh???

[gomoho]

I haven't found that to hold true - the bond increasing the price of a home by very much. My advice is talk to a good realtor who should give you the skinny. And yes homes sell very quickly here, but unless they are resale it does not benefit a flipper because of the "one year resale rule" that applies to new homes.

[Advogado]

Wondering what are your thoughts about purchasing a pre-owned with the enticement of Bond Paid being the key selling point? I'm finding these homes have few or minimal enhancements and are generally out of sync with true market value with very little rationale for their pricing? Is "BOND PAID" really that important an enticement to buyers causing them to ignore or lose sight of true market value? I've also discovered that quite a few of these properties are owned by "Flippers." I would have thought that "house flipping" would be very risky these days, even in The Villages. But, then again, it's really just an investment that pays a hell of lot more dividends than banks and investment shares these days huh???


The advertised price of any house carrying an unpaid bond understates the true price of the house- in the new areas, by a considerable amount. (This gives the developer a leg up in trying to sell a new house to a buyer who is comparing its price to that of a previously owned one.) To get the true price, you need to find out the amount of the bond and add the bond amount to the advertised price. When a seller advertises the price "bond paid", he is just telling you that his advertised price is the true price. I don't think that "bond paid" is really being used as an "enticement".

Most Villagers understand this, but a lot of first-time buyers probably do not. The surprising thing about all this is that the FTC or some other consumer-protection agency hasn't required the developer and brokers to list the amount of the bond in all their house ads. I can't think of any other situation in which this kind of deceptive advertising would go unchallenged by regulators.

[justjim]

I think that "flipping" a home that has the bond paid only shows the age of the home. There are "investors" in TV that purchase older homes and fix them up a bit and sell them to the Resale Market. I suppose you can call this Flipping.

[Jim 9922]

Bond Paid should not be the key enticement to buy, but the amount of unpaid bond should be considered part of the purchase price. You owe it just like any other unpaid portion of a mortgage. In most other states infrastructure costs must be "up front" paid by the developer and are subsequently included in the "purchase price" of the home when sold to the customer.
As for rehab-flippers, I believe the good honest ones are performong a service for our community. Over the past year I noticed a few "estate" and "repo" properties which were blights to their neighborhoods being cleaned out and fixed up and quickly resold to the benefit of everyone around.

[graciegirl]

Bond Paid should not be the key enticement to buy, but the amount of unpaid bond should be considered part of the purchase price. You owe it just like any other unpaid portion of a mortgage. In most other states infrastructure costs must be "up front" paid by the developer and are subsequently included in the "purchase price" of the home when sold to the customer.
As for rehab-flippers, I believe the good honest ones are performong a service for our community. Over the past year I noticed a few "estate" and "repo" properties which were blights to their neighborhoods being cleaned out and fixed up and quickly resold to the benefit of everyone around.

I agree with your every word.

When you look for a resale, look at what has been done to a home or not done to a home that you must change. I found a lot of older homes looked a little behind the times in terms of light fixtures, and dated tile styles. I AM a person who notices stuff like that and it is NOT important to a lot of people. Some focus on the fact that garage steps had been installed and the downspouts in the back and the garage floor was painted and the landscaping had palms added, things generally done by all homeowners. I focused on wallpaper to be removed, smoky smells, out of date cabinet styles, overgrown landscaping, bright colors on walls that didn't go with our stuff.

Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

[asianthree]

flipping would be buying a home well underpriced...update the home and sell with a good profit...i found those homes with paid bond it reflects in the price of the home so you are still paying the bond;;but just what i have seen so far...i have seen house go on the market quickly due to not selling their first home...too big/small///garage size....and then sudden death comes into play more than flipping

[downeaster]

The advertised price of any house carrying an unpaid bond understates the true price of the house- in the new areas, by a considerable amount. (This gives the developer a leg up in trying to sell a new house to a buyer who is comparing its price to that of a previously owned one.) To get the true price, you need to find out the amount of the bond and add the bond amount to the advertised price. When a seller advertises the price "bond paid", he is just telling you that his advertised price is the true price. I don't think that "bond paid" is really being used as an "enticement".

Most Villagers understand this, but a lot of first-time buyers probably do not. The surprising thing about all this is that the FTC or some other consumer-protection agency hasn't required the developer and brokers to list the amount of the bond in all their house ads. I can't think of any other situation in which this kind of deceptive advertising would go unchallenged by regulators.

Well said, Advogado.

[Ohiogirl]

[/COLOR][/B]

I agree with your every word.

When you look for a resale, look at what has been done to a home or not done to a home that you must change. I found a lot of older homes looked a little behind the times in terms of light fixtures, and dated tile styles. I AM a person who notices stuff like that and it is NOT important to a lot of people. Some focus on the fact that garage steps had been installed and the downspouts in the back and the garage floor was painted and the landscaping had palms added, things generally done by all homeowners. I focused on wallpaper to be removed, smoky smells, out of date cabinet styles, overgrown landscaping, bright colors on walls that didn't go with our stuff.

Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

when we bought (2006), CYVs and patio villas had the same bond, as did ranches (now cottages) and designers. Based on density of development, not price. Our CYV bond was just under $10,000. I think the newer CYV and patio villa neighborhoods are more like $12,000, not $10,000, but someone can enlighten.

Don't know if they are still grouped that way south of 466A.

[ajs922]

We will be closing on a Designer Home in Sabal Chase on 8/19. The Bond of $18,000 was paid and we saw this as an enticement. It was not the main reason for buying the home but did help a great deal. We said that if needed we have $18,000 to spend on upgrades, if needed, that we would not have if the Bond was not paid. For us the $18,000 is money we saved vs buying a home where the bond was not paid. Just our 2 cents.

[George Bieniaszek]

My thoughts on buying a pre-owned with a bond balance VS a bond payoff is as follows.

If you are looking at two similar homes, similar age, for example, 2 CYV's. One is listed at $180K with a $12K bond balance and another listed at $190K with a zero bond balance, what would be the better deal? The seller has invested $12K to pay off the bond and will be looking at recouping all or most of that investment. The buyer will look at the zero bond home and either pay the higher price or borrow $10,000 more to purchase the home.

As in any upgrade or additional investments in your home, putting money into an upgraded kitchen or bathroom usually gets close to 100% of your investment back when selling. The other upgrades net 50% or less, as a general rule of thumb. Bond payoff is definitely an investment or upgrade to your property and will be reflected in the selling price.

What would I do with the $12,000??? Pay off the bond?, buy a new golf cart?, birdcage?, landscaping? All these options are available to you and only you can determine what the best bang for the buck is and how you spend the $12,000.

[sailor47]

We bought our house in 2009 and it has a bond. We new it had the bond and still bought anyway. We could pay off the Bond and I would be happy as it has a really high interest rate but if we ever decide to sell for any reason we will be at a disadvantage.

Very few buyers look at a house for the bond paid. When they search the listings they put in a max price they are looking to pay. That puts a bond paid house at a disadvantage as the bond paid house will be 15 to 18K higher and will never be looked selected.

I agree with an earlier poster that new and old homes should have to list the outstanding bond as part of the selling price of the home because it is.

[LABSX2]

[/COLOR][/B]

I agree with your every word.

When you look for a resale, look at what has been done to a home or not done to a home that you must change. I found a lot of older homes looked a little behind the times in terms of light fixtures, and dated tile styles. I AM a person who notices stuff like that and it is NOT important to a lot of people. Some focus on the fact that garage steps had been installed and the downspouts in the back and the garage floor was painted and the landscaping had palms added, things generally done by all homeowners. I focused on wallpaper to be removed, smoky smells, out of date cabinet styles, overgrown landscaping, bright colors on walls that didn't go with our stuff.

Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

We just purchased a new CYV in May. The bond is around $12,000 IF we paid it off now, BUT if we pay it off over the 30 year period, it is closer to $30,000. :cryin2: So when adding to the price of the home you also need to consider when you will be paying off the bond. :undecided:

[buggyone]

Personally, I think if, which I do not, had a large bond on my home that I would take out a home equity loan for that amount and pay off the bond. The home equity loan is at a much lower interest rate than the bond.

As for buying a resale home with a bond vs one with no bond, I would make my offer on the one with no bond to be the same as the offer I would consider on the home with a bond. With some negotiation, the seller will usually come to an amount close to your terms.

Negotiation with a seller is one big positive over buying a new home from Villages Properties.

[Schaumburger]

when we bought (2006), CYVs and patio villas had the same bond, as did ranches (now cottages) and designers. Based on density of development, not price. Our CYV bond was just under $10,000. I think the newer CYV and patio villa neighborhoods are more like $12,000, not $10,000, but someone can enlighten.

Don't know if they are still grouped that way south of 466A.


When I was in TV in May, I went to an open house for a new patio villa on Karin Place; I can't remember which new Village south of 466A it was in. The bond was between $12K and $13K (can't remember the exact $ amount but it was closer to $12K).

[maureenod]

I agree with Avogado, the purchase price along with the remaining bond should be advertised as the total purchasing price. When we looked for a home it was very differcult to get the "true" purchase price info. 6% is a lot and would add considerably to the "true" cost of the house. I do find this deceptive to seniors.

[buggyone]

I agree with Avogado, the purchase price along with the remaining bond should be advertised as the total purchasing price. When we looked for a home it was very differcult to get the "true" purchase price info. 6% is a lot and would add considerably to the "true" cost of the house. I do find this deceptive to seniors.

It was difficult to get the true purchase price? Just ASK the realtor what the bond is as soon as you walk in the door! It is NOT deceptive to anyone. Same with taxes, just ask!

[janmcn]

It was difficult to get the true purchase price? Just ASK the realtor what the bond is as soon as you walk in the door! It is NOT deceptive to anyone. Same with taxes, just ask!


That would work well for anyone visiting an open house that is aware of the bonds. What if you are a prospective buyer who never heard of the bonds? Sales people are not very forthcoming with this information.

[buggyone]

That would work well for anyone visiting an open house that is aware of the bonds. What if you are a prospective buyer who never heard of the bonds? Sales people are not very forthcoming with this information.

All of the open houses I have seen here in The Villages have a fact sheet telling all about the house. This includes all the taxes, bond price, and ammenity fee.

When you look for a house in other places, have you ever seen the additional fees shown on the advertised listing of the house in the paper? No, those are found on the fact sheet or told by the realtor.

Once again, buyers in The Villages are not first time buyers and are savvy enough to ask the bottom line before signing a contract.

[Bonnevie]

I bought a home with the bond paid. It was an added advantage because I was looking at what my monthly expenses would be and having the bond paid lowered that considerably. Now it's part of a mortgage at a very low interest rate which is tax deductible.

[eweissenbach]

That would work well for anyone visiting an open house that is aware of the bonds. What if you are a prospective buyer who never heard of the bonds? Sales people are not very forthcoming with this information.

A pet peeve of mine, Villages real estate sales people often tell people that the bond is no big deal, or that they will hardly notice it. I don't know if they are trained to respond that way or if they are just trying to mitigate the impact of the bond, but I see it as borderline malpractice. The fact is the bond is a real cost that should logically be considered in the overall price of the home. Furthermore, as has been mentioned, it is charged with a higher interest rate than a typical mortgage AND it is not legitimately tax deductible, unlike taxes or mortgage interest. I understand the bond and how it is used as a way of providing infrastructure up front, prior to selling the homes In a Village, but the salespeople need to be forthcoming about the real financial impact on the overall purchase.

[maureenod]

If you look at TheVillages.com houses for sale. Nowhere does it mention the bond payoff amount. They do say BOND PAID in bold print, so why don't they say the payoff amount? Yes, it is deceptive. You have to call an agent to find out the correct payoff amount.

[livsea2]

If you look at TheVillages.com houses for sale. Nowhere does it mention the bond payoff amount. They do say BOND PAID in bold print, so why don't they say the payoff amount? Yes, it is deceptive. You have to call an agent to find out the correct payoff amount.

I'll send you a PM

[graciegirl]

A pet peeve of mine, Villages real estate sales people often tell people that the bond is no big deal, or that they will hardly notice it. I don't know if they are trained to respond that way or if they are just trying to mitigate the impact of the bond, but I see it as borderline malpractice. The fact is the bond is a real cost that should logically be considered in the overall price of the home. Furthermore, as has been mentioned, it is charged with a higher interest rate than a typical mortgage AND it is not legitimately tax deductible, unlike taxes or mortgage interest. I understand the bond and how it is used as a way of providing infrastructure up front, prior to selling the homes In a Village, but the salespeople need to be forthcoming about the real financial impact on the overall purchase.

I don't know what Villages real estate sales people often tell people. I just know what mine told me.

It is a cloudy area for sure and I remember early on when reading this forum that a buyer was just livid when he went to closing and found out about the bond.

As a frequent poster I try hard to bring the bond to the attention of newbies and this is a very good thread for this purpose. Very little is done here like it was done "back home" including real estate procedures and laws and practices.

I hate when people move here and feel that they have been duped. It spoils my whole day.

Once you can sort of get the feel of how much the bond is and add it to the price of your home you can make a wise-er decision about what house is right for you.

I think that at this date and time, August 7, 2013 the bond on a new Designer home, and they range in price from about $180 to close to half a million depending on location, style, and upgrades, that all of them have a bond of about $23K. New owners, is that correct? I know for a fact that the bond on Premiers is just shy of 50K.

[sharonga]

My bond was close to $20,000. in Sanibel for a cottage.

[eweissenbach]

I don't know what Villages real estate sales people often tell people. I just know what mine told me.


I wasn't implying that ALL Villages sales people tell people that the bond is no big deal, but I have heard at least three different ones use that sort of language when asked about the bond at an open house. I told one that I just add the bond amount to the price, and she emphatically argued that "you can't do that"! "The bond is paid with the taxes, and you will hardly notice it"! REALLY, I will hardly notice paying an extra $1500 a year or so with my taxes???? I would NEVER use her as a salesperson and she is one of the top sellers in the stable. I am not arguing the bond is in any way unfair or unethical, however I am arguing that lying about it's impact IS.

[maureenod]

I also have been told that it's just a small amount added to your tax bill by every open house broker. I was and still interested in resale and found the bond is different in every village. The pay off or balance due should be on the listing sheet as that is the true cost of the house.

[jimbo2012]

It's no big deal:0000000000luvmyhors, like $3 a day with interest on a designer ($19,500)

Stop worrying about it, my base home went up in cost that much in 7 months:popcorn:

[eweissenbach]

I also have been told that it's just a small amount added to your tax bill by every open house broker. I was and still interested in resale and found the bond is different in every village. The pay off or balance due should be on the listing sheet as that is the true cost of the house.

It is generally on the listing sheet, however it is seldom in the information put into the advertising. Therefore one has to talk to a salesperson to get that information. The ads will proclaim "no bond" or "low bond", so the bond is obviously of interest to buyers.

[graciegirl]

I wasn't implying that ALL Villages sales people tell people that the bond is no big deal, but I have heard at least three different ones use that sort of language when asked about the bond at an open house. I told one that I just add the bond amount to the price, and she emphatically argued that "you can't do that"! "The bond is paid with the taxes, and you will hardly notice it"! REALLY, I will hardly notice paying an extra $1500 a year or so with my taxes???? I would NEVER use her as a salesperson and she is one of the top sellers in the stable. I am not arguing the bond is in any way unfair or unethical, however I am arguing that lying about it's impact IS.

You are right of course and I would consider that tactic unethical as well.

[eweissenbach]

It's no big deal:0000000000luvmyhors, like $3 a day with interest on a designer ($19,500)

Stop worrying about it, my base home went up in cost that much in 7 months:popcorn:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however it is closer to $5 a day ($19,500 @ 6% for 20 years = $140 per month). and while that amount would not break me I would notice it, ($140 would pay for a lot of golf, or almost a monthly lease on a compact car). Again, I am not as concerned about the math or the bond itself, I simply find it disingenuous and unethical for the salespeople to try and film flam the subject. Realtors in Missouri could be subject to losing their license for misrepresentation.

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't know what Villages real estate sales people often tell people. I just know what mine told me.

It is a cloudy area for sure and I remember early on when reading this forum that a buyer was just livid when he went to closing and found out about the bond.

As a frequent poster I try hard to bring the bond to the attention of newbies and this is a very good thread for this purpose. Very little is done here like it was done "back home" including real estate procedures and laws and practices.

I hate when people move here and feel that they have been duped. It spoils my whole day.

Once you can sort of get the feel of how much the bond is and add it to the price of your home you can make a wise-er decision about what house is right for you.

I think that at this date and time, August 7, 2013 the bond on a new Designer home, and they range in price from about $180 to close to half a million depending on location, style, and upgrades, that all of them have a bond of about $23K. New owners, is that correct? I know for a fact that the bond on Premiers is just shy of 50K.

Style and upgrades has nothing to do with the bond.
Depends where the premier is located.

How does the District arrive at the amount? Does everyone pay the same amount?

The Bond Debt Assessment was set at the time the bond used to build the infrastructure was issued. The formula for calculating each lot’s proportionate share starts with the total cost of the bond (including interest) issued to pay for the infrastructure. That cost is divided equally among each assessable acre in the “phase” of the District for which the bond was issued. That gives you a cost per acre. The cost per acre is then multiplied by the number of acres in the unit in which you live. That gives you the obligation for the unit as a whole. The unit total cost is then divided by the number of lots or parcels in the unit, and that computation gives you the amount of the assessment levied against each property. Therefore, each lot within a unit pays the same amount. Amortization schedules for each unit are located on the Districts' website; www.districtgov.org under the Finance Department link

[graciegirl]

Style and upgrades has nothing to do with the bond.
Depends where the premier is located.

How does the District arrive at the amount? Does everyone pay the same amount?

The Bond Debt Assessment was set at the time the bond used to build the infrastructure was issued. The formula for calculating each lot’s proportionate share starts with the total cost of the bond (including interest) issued to pay for the infrastructure. That cost is divided equally among each assessable acre in the “phase” of the District for which the bond was issued. That gives you a cost per acre. The cost per acre is then multiplied by the number of acres in the unit in which you live. That gives you the obligation for the unit as a whole. The unit total cost is then divided by the number of lots or parcels in the unit, and that computation gives you the amount of the assessment levied against each property. Therefore, each lot within a unit pays the same amount. Amortization schedules for each unit are located on the Districts' website; www.districtgov.org (http://www.districtgov.org) under the Finance Department link

Bogie my dear. The point I was trying to make WAS that no matter what the cost of a new designer...they all have the same price bond if they are new..now at this time, like TODAY.

I am somewhat blonde. Well some call it platinum and white is used too to describe my hair..

I am correct on that aren't I?

[Bogie Shooter]

Bogie my dear. The point I was trying to make WAS that no matter what the cost of a new designer...they all have the same price bond if they are new..now at this time, like TODAY.

I am somewhat blonde. Well some call it platinum and white is used too to describe my hair..

I am correct on that aren't I?

I believe, my dear, it depends on where the New Designer is built.

From previous post..........
That cost is divided equally among each assessable acre in the �phase� of the District for which the bond was issued.

[jimbo2012]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however it is closer to $5 a day ($19,500 @ 6% for 20 years = $140 per month).

Mine as I recall is %5 or 5 1/2 for 30 so close to $90-100 not $140.

either way no big deal, spend that to gas up my car

-----

but maybe all listing should say

$xxxx +bond or
$xxxx bond paid

[eweissenbach]

Mine as I recall is %5 or 5 1/2 for 30 so close to $90-100 not $140.

either way no big deal, spend that to gas up my car

-----

but maybe all listing should say

$xxxx +bond or
$xxxx bond paid

We will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a big deal, but I agree that the ADS should show the bond amount - the listing already does, but the ad does not as a rule. All I am arguing for is FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE DISCLOSURE, then I can make my own decision on what is, or is not a big deal to me.

[Paperboy]

[/COLOR][/B]

I agree with your every word.

When you look for a resale, look at what has been done to a home or not done to a home that you must change. I found a lot of older homes looked a little behind the times in terms of light fixtures, and dated tile styles. I AM a person who notices stuff like that and it is NOT important to a lot of people. Some focus on the fact that garage steps had been installed and the downspouts in the back and the garage floor was painted and the landscaping had palms added, things generally done by all homeowners. I focused on wallpaper to be removed, smoky smells, out of date cabinet styles, overgrown landscaping, bright colors on walls that didn't go with our stuff.

Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

11/18/11 bond a 3 bdrm. cottage was $22,105.00

[Paperboy]

[/COLOR][/B]

I agree with your every word.

When you look for a resale, look at what has been done to a home or not done to a home that you must change. I found a lot of older homes looked a little behind the times in terms of light fixtures, and dated tile styles. I AM a person who notices stuff like that and it is NOT important to a lot of people. Some focus on the fact that garage steps had been installed and the downspouts in the back and the garage floor was painted and the landscaping had palms added, things generally done by all homeowners. I focused on wallpaper to be removed, smoky smells, out of date cabinet styles, overgrown landscaping, bright colors on walls that didn't go with our stuff.

Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

Bond on a 3 bdrm. cottage purchased 11/18/11 was $22,100.00

[graciegirl]

Bond on a 3 bdrm. cottage purchased 11/18/11 was $22,100.00

Are they the same as a designer then?

[jimbo2012]

I think so if built in the same unit

[justjim]

Are they the same as a designer then?

I have noticed that in some Villages Designers and Cottages are on the same street----even next door to a designer on the golf course. First village I saw this was in St. Charles. This seemed "unusual" to me-----or different from the past practices of TV.

[Easyrider]

[QUOTE=sailor47;720856].

Very few buyers look at a house for the bond paid. When they search the listings they put in a max price they are looking to pay. That puts a bond paid house at a disadvantage as the bond paid house will be 15 to 18K higher and will never be looked selected.



Have to disagree and my data is probably about as accurate as that given,. Most all aware buyers do consider the bond balance as an additional cost of buying a property. Simply noting the outstanding bond balance does not tell the whole story. Comparing the bond balance and the total of what it will cost you to pay the interest and administrative charge each year plus a small amount on the principal for many additional years is a difference of many thousands of $$ more and totally different from simply the bond principal balance.

[Easyrider]

We will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a big deal, but I agree that the ADS should show the bond amount - the listing already does, but the ad does not as a rule. All I am arguing for is FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE DISCLOSURE, then I can make my own decision on what is, or is not a big deal to me.


Totally agree Ed

Full Disclosure is required by Florida law including any pending legal issues...


Seller's Real Property Disclosure Statement
FLORIDA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS.
NAME: _
SELLER HAS D HAS NOT D OCCUPIED THE PROPERTY.
DATE SELLER PURCHASED PROPERTY?
IS THE PROPERTYCURRENTLY LEASED? NO DYES D TERMINATION DATEOF LEASE:
DOES THE PROPERTYCURRENTLY HAVE HOMESTEADEXEMPTION?NO DYES D; YEAR
GENERAL INFORMATIONABOUT PROPERTY:
PROPERTYADDRESS:
LEGAL DESCRIPTION:
NOTICE TO BUYER AND SELLER:
In Florida, a Seller is obligated to disclose to a Buyer all known facts that materially affect the value of the
property being sold and that are not readily observable. This disclosure statement is designed to assist Seller
in complying with the disclosure requirements under Florida law and to assist the Buyer in evaluating the property
being considered. This disclosure statement concerns the condition of the real property located at above
address. It is not a warranty of any kind by the Seller or any Licensee in this transaction. It is not a substitute
for any inspections or warranties the parties may wish to obtain. It is based only upon Seller's knowledge of the
property condition. This disclosure is not intended to be a part of any contract for sale and purchase. All parties
may refer to this information when they evaluate, market, or present Seller's property to prospective Buyers.
The following representations are made by the Seller(s) and are not the
representations of any real estate licensees.

1. CLAIMS & ASSESSMENTS
a. Are you aware of existing, pending, or proposed legal actions, claims, special assessments, municipal service
taxing or benefit unit charges or unpaid assessments (including homeowners' association maintenance fees or
proposed increases in assessments and/or maintenance fees) affecting the property? NO DYES D If yes, explain:
b. Have any local, state, or federal authorities notified you that repairs, alterations or corrections of the property are
required? NO DYES D If yes, explain:

2. DEED/HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION RESTRICTIONS
Are You Aware:
a. of any deed or homeowner restrictions? NO DYES D
b. of any proposed changes to any of the restrictions? NO DYES D
c. of any resale restrictions? NO DYES D
d. of any restrictions on leasing the property? NO DYES D
e. If any answer to questions 2a-2e is yes, please explain:
f. Are access roads private D public D? If private, describe the terms and conditions of the maintenance
agreement:
g. If there is a homeowner association, is membership mandatory? NO DYES D, and are fees charged by the homeowner
association? NO DYES D If yes, explain:
3. PROPERTY-RELATED ITEMS

[e-flyer]

Up North in our area, the builder includes the cost of the infrastructure for the development in the overall cost of the house for sale. What I see here in TV is inflated house prices, inflated lot pricing (I've never seen a lot here without some amount of premium being added whether it's $2K or $200K), and to me the Bond is just another "hidden fee". If the builder added it into an already inflated house price, it might scare folks off from purchasing, or at least make them settle for something $20K lower. When the agent told me the cost of the Bond, I said so the house price is really $20K more, she said the same as others have said, "no, you can't think of it like that, the Bond is paid in small increments over 30 yrs. at the same time as your taxes, think of it as part of your taxes" My response was, the house is really $20K more anyway you look at it, she just smiled and changed the subject. I think they are taught to minimize the Bond in order to stretch the buyer into more expensive houses. In reality it's just an addition loan on the purchase, which you may choose to payoff over 30yrs. at double the initial cost, or you have the option to pay it off all at once and save the interest. Since most Villagers move 2 or 3 times I have to agree that paying off the bond may not be the best option, since you will not recoup that expense. If you are one that built your dream house in the perfect location/lot setting and have no intentions of ever moving, then paying it off makes sense. I'm just stating my opinion, and I'm not complaining, as I knew what I was buying into, along with TV lifestyle which is like nothing else I've ever experienced. :):):)

[twinklesweep]

I agree with Avogado, the purchase price along with the remaining bond should be advertised as the total purchasing price. When we looked for a home it was very differcult to get the "true" purchase price info. 6% is a lot and would add considerably to the "true" cost of the house. I do find this deceptive to seniors.

It would be helpful for an advertised home to include the bond balance. BUT (and this is a big "but") ...

It was difficult to get the true purchase price? Just ASK the realtor what the bond is as soon as you walk in the door! It is NOT deceptive to anyone. Same with taxes, just ask!

All of the open houses I have seen here in The Villages have a fact sheet telling all about the house. This includes all the taxes, bond price, and ammenity fee.

When you look for a house in other places, have you ever seen the additional fees shown on the advertised listing of the house in the paper? No, those are found on the fact sheet or told by the realtor.

Once again, buyers in The Villages are not first time buyers and are savvy enough to ask the bottom line before signing a contract.

... where is the responsibility on the part of the home buyer to seek out this info and take it into account? Why should "caveat emptor" ("let the buyer beware") not be part of a real estate purchase in TV? How easy it is for a buyer NOT to examine every detail of a home purchase and then complain about it afterward....

A pet peeve of mine, Villages real estate sales people often tell people that the bond is no big deal, or that they will hardly notice it. I don't know if they are trained to respond that way or if they are just trying to mitigate the impact of the bond, but I see it as borderline malpractice. The fact is the bond is a real cost that should logically be considered in the overall price of the home. Furthermore, as has been mentioned, it is charged with a higher interest rate than a typical mortgage AND it is not legitimately tax deductible, unlike taxes or mortgage interest. I understand the bond and how it is used as a way of providing infrastructure up front, prior to selling the homes In a Village, but the salespeople need to be forthcoming about the real financial impact on the overall purchase.

"...the bond is no big deal, or [you] will hardly notice it." Are there people who actually make one of the largest purchases in their lives who choose to buy into this view? Of course, "the bond is a real cost that should logically be considered in the overall price of the home." Duh! Should any buyer choose NOT to do so, that is her or his choice.

If you look at TheVillages.com houses for sale. Nowhere does it mention the bond payoff amount. They do say BOND PAID in bold print, so why don't they say the payoff amount? Yes, it is deceptive. You have to call an agent to find out the correct payoff amount.

So? Call the agent!

A while back I purchased my then five-year-old CYV with the amount of the bond payoff clearly stated at about $5,500, which I just considered as part of the purchase price. I might add that I did NOT use TV's real estate services but rather bought through an outside MLS agent. No further comment....

[maureenod]

You are missing my point. In searching for a resale home on TheVillages.com there is no mention of bond payoff amount. They do quote LOW BOND or NO BOND in bold print but not bond payoff amount. Older villages have different bond assessments. Bond payoff amount is important info. The only way to get that info is to call an agent which cant be done for every house on every new listing. I am referring to the online listing on "thevillages.com" NOT open houses, listing sheets or newspaper ads. I do not live in TV, rent but would like to buy.

[kstew43]

I feel the same way, the bond should be added to the cost of the home to realize the actual price you will be paying for the home.

Another thought, I was looking into the historic side and came upon a extremely old 70's.... but still cute as a button, single wide, as a option to buying over priced new.......

the home is priced at $79 on the villages website sold by TV realtor, sounded good to me, but.......after doing a little research in the tax records and on Zillow, come to find out this home was purchased in April 2013, and after previewing, inquired from the realtor what changes were made, all appliances were old, no new AC or water heater, no new carpets, roof or anything......and sold in April for $56... thats a $23 profit in 3 months..... wow....

realtor responded most buyers in TV do not do any research when buying pre owned and someone will buy it for the asking price...... i was in amazement...... I am a informed buyer, you have to be these days..... If we were all this way, maybe we could get a handle on these price increases....maybe...

I also heard that Disney is building soon on the other side of 44 and might just wait to see what style houses they have to offer,

I think I would love the Villages life style,:wave: but can not seem to find a style home that fits my needs. Hate toliet closets with no windows and baths with no windows, and don't get me started on the kissing decks.... just my humble opinion....

[Advogado]

Totally agree Ed

Full Disclosure is required by Florida law including any pending legal issues...


Seller's Real Property Disclosure Statement
FLORIDA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS.
NAME: _
SELLER HAS D HAS NOT D OCCUPIED THE PROPERTY.
DATE SELLER PURCHASED PROPERTY?
IS THE PROPERTYCURRENTLY LEASED? NO DYES D TERMINATION DATEOF LEASE:
DOES THE PROPERTYCURRENTLY HAVE HOMESTEADEXEMPTION?NO DYES D; YEAR
GENERAL INFORMATIONABOUT PROPERTY:
PROPERTYADDRESS:
LEGAL DESCRIPTION:
NOTICE TO BUYER AND SELLER:
In Florida, a Seller is obligated to disclose to a Buyer all known facts that materially affect the value of the
property being sold and that are not readily observable. This disclosure statement is designed to assist Seller
in complying with the disclosure requirements under Florida law and to assist the Buyer in evaluating the property
being considered. This disclosure statement concerns the condition of the real property located at above
address. It is not a warranty of any kind by the Seller or any Licensee in this transaction. It is not a substitute
for any inspections or warranties the parties may wish to obtain. It is based only upon Seller's knowledge of the
property condition. This disclosure is not intended to be a part of any contract for sale and purchase. All parties
may refer to this information when they evaluate, market, or present Seller's property to prospective Buyers.
The following representations are made by the Seller(s) and are not the
representations of any real estate licensees.

1. CLAIMS & ASSESSMENTS
a. Are you aware of existing, pending, or proposed legal actions, claims, special assessments, municipal service
taxing or benefit unit charges or unpaid assessments (including homeowners' association maintenance fees or
proposed increases in assessments and/or maintenance fees) affecting the property? NO DYES D If yes, explain:
b. Have any local, state, or federal authorities notified you that repairs, alterations or corrections of the property are
required? NO DYES D If yes, explain:

2. DEED/HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION RESTRICTIONS
Are You Aware:
a. of any deed or homeowner restrictions? NO DYES D
b. of any proposed changes to any of the restrictions? NO DYES D
c. of any resale restrictions? NO DYES D
d. of any restrictions on leasing the property? NO DYES D
e. If any answer to questions 2a-2e is yes, please explain:
f. Are access roads private D public D? If private, describe the terms and conditions of the maintenance
agreement:
g. If there is a homeowner association, is membership mandatory? NO DYES D, and are fees charged by the homeowner
association? NO DYES D If yes, explain:
3. PROPERTY-RELATED ITEMS
All true, but from an ethical and legal standpoint, the Developer and brokers should be disclosing the amount of the bond in their ads.

[graciegirl]

All true, but from an ethical and legal standpoint, the Developer and brokers should be disclosing the amount of the bond in their ads.


It seems that there are posters who always assume that there is something underhanded going on with the developer. There are some, like me that think he and his family are the greatest thing since sliced bread and canned beer, they have a great plan, they risked their own money time and time again and planned out a superior place for grown up people to spend time together and enjoy the fourth quarter of the game. .

It is a different way of handling things than "back home" for sure where the cost of the infrastructure is added into the cost of the new home. There are those that say that the cost of homes here is inflated, and I agree with them. You can find similar homes in this area..outside of The Villages for less money, bond included or not. But they are outside THE VILLAGES. We are now having people move here from Boca and West Palm and a lot of lah tee dah areas in Florida. I know this because some moved into my village and I know them.

There is no problem selling homes here in fact I accompanied a friend looking for a home a couple of weeks ago and he was trying to find a patio villa and many were sold or at least pending while he was waiting for his appointment to see them. I like that this thread is happening because I want every person who is hoping and dreaming to join us here to know how this works. I am going to state a ball park figure for the bond now that I have new input on it.

When we bought our new (spec) Camellia in Hadley in 2008, the bond was right around 21K Now that same home in Gilchrist I am told has a bond of about 23K. Apparently all designers in the brand new neighborhoods are about the same.

The price of the bond has NOTHING to do with the asking price of the home, That is really dependent on where the lot is, the view and the upgrades.

It appears the cottages are the same? Any new cottage buyers who say differently?

Also tell us again how much on court yard villas and I know that Premiers are 49 if bought new in the last year or so.

I think it is a strange way to do things but once you know what is going on you can make the adjustments. It is a way for the developer to finance the huge amount of infrastructure and it apparently works. I myself have no problem with people being in business to make money. But you all know how I roll.

I suppose that the people who make money selling houses don't use a list of reasons why you should be disheartened. This area stinks, this area has a LOT of really OLD people...I imagine that if the failure to disclose the price of the bond in the infrastructure was illegal that someone would have sued the developer. It appears that the developer has pretty good legal advice and does NOT need to do anything underhanded to sell homes. For all new people. There is a bond that is about $25 thousand dollars. Add it mentally to the cost of the home. Don't be disappointed. Don't be mad. If you want a less expensive home or a bigger home for the same money, they are available all over Florida.

Again I say.......As a general rule...Add about twenty five thousand dollars to the price of a home in your mind, than find out how much the bond really is.

Now..I feel better.:024:

Someday I am going to meet Gary Morse face to face and shake his hand.

Thank you Gary Morse.

[asianthree]

I feel the same way, the bond should be added to the cost of the home to realize the actual price you will be paying for the home.

Another thought, I was looking into the historic side and came upon a extremely old 70's.... but still cute as a button, single wide, as a option to buying over priced new.......

the home is priced at $79 on the villages website sold by TV realtor, sounded good to me, but.......after doing a little research in the tax records and on Zillow, come to find out this home was purchased in April 2013, and after previewing, inquired from the realtor what changes were made, all appliances were old, no new AC or water heater, no new carpets, roof or anything......and sold in April for $56... thats a $23 profit in 3 months..... wow....

realtor responded most buyers in TV do not do any research when buying pre owned and someone will buy it for the asking price...... i was in amazement...... I am a informed buyer, you have to be these days..... If we were all this way, maybe we could get a handle on these price increases....maybe...

I also heard that Disney is building soon on the other side of 44 and might just wait to see what style houses they have to offer,

I think I would love the Villages life style,:wave: but can not seem to find a style home that fits my needs. Hate toliet closets with no windows and baths with no windows, and don't get me started on the kissing decks.... just my humble opinion....

see a monorail is in our future:p

[Bogie Shooter]

I also heard that Disney is building soon on the other side of 44 and might just wait to see what style houses they have to offer,

.

Whoa............now where did you hear this?
The rumor now begins.............................

BTW I have some nice lots that you might like in South Florida.

[eweissenbach]

I think it is a strange way to do things but once you know what is going on you can make the adjustments. It is a way for the developer to finance the huge amount of infrastructure and it apparently works. I myself have no problem with people being in business to make money. But you all know how I roll.

I suppose that the people who make money selling houses don't use a list of reasons why you should be disheartened. This area stinks, this area has a LOT of really OLD people]...I imagine that if the failure to disclose the price of the bond in the infrastructure was illegal that someone would have sued the developer. It appears that the developer has pretty good legal advice and does NOT need to do anything underhanded to sell homes[/U]. For all new people. There is a bond that is about $25 thousand dollars. Add it mentally to the cost of the home. Don't be disappointed. Don't be mad. If you want a less expensive home or a bigger home for the same money, they are available all over Florida.

Again I say.......As a general rule...Add about twenty five thousand dollars to the price of a home in your mind, than find out how much the bond really is.

Now..I feel better.:024:

Someday I am going to meet Gary Morse face to face and shake his hand.

Thank you Gary Morse.

I don't think this is directly in response to me, but I will comment. First, I agree with your assessment of the developers and their business acumen and foresight. I agree that it is not illegal to fail to disclose the bond cost in the advertising, though I am certain it must be disclosed at some point before closing. My problem is, once again, the salespeople's approach to the bond and their efforts to minimize it in the buyer's mind. I have heard enough of them say it that it seems to be something they are trained to do, or that they talk about among themselves. I am certain that Gary Morse does not do the training, nor probably, do any of the Morses directly. As you state, the bond on NEW cottage or designer homes is in the $20 to $25K range. However, when looking at existing homes the bond is all over the place, depending on what village it is in, and whether it has been paid down or not. I have looked at enough open houses over the last few years to know, pretty closely, what the bond will be in any given village, if it has not been paid off. I also know enough about the bond to not be swayed by silly assertions by salespeople. However, I have observed salespeople trying to convince prospects who don't have much experience with TV, that the bond is something other than what it is, and that makes me furious for those prospects. Everyone should be given ALL the information they need to make an intelligent buying decision. I was in real estate sales for ten years and in insurance sales and management for thirty, and I am sensitive about the image of manipulative salespeople. I too would like to shake Gary Morses hand and congratulate him on his vision and execution, but I might add that he should tell his sales trainers to be more forthcoming.

[kstew43]

Disney is not a rumor....it was actually in the Orlando paper, the only thing they neglected to mention is what type of home, all ages? and little......things like that, but it is for sure that they will be building out there..... when.... now thats another story..... but I can wait a few years....

[graciegirl]

Disney is not a rumor....it was actually in the Orlando paper, the only thing they neglected to mention is what type of home, all ages? and little......things like that, but it is for sure that they will be building out there..... when.... now thats another story..... but I can wait a few years....

Could you link us to that story in the Orlando paper?

As close as most noses are to the ground here about anything that affects The Villages, and especially by those who live here 24/7, I am surprised that information hasn't been talked about here on this forum which really seems to keep the pulse of what's happening.

P.S.

Was this what you were talking about? Did it ever happen. This was from 2010.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704895204575321003529487016.html

[kstew43]

I wish I could like it but there are so many advertisements........but google......wildwood+disney and there it is.......from 2006......but there never the less....:wave:

[Bogie Shooter]

I wish I could like it but there are so many advertisements........but google......wildwood+disney and there it is.......from 2006......but there never the less....:wave:

Thanks for the information.
Lets see 7 years and counting.

[graciegirl]

I wish I could like it but there are so many advertisements........but google......wildwood+disney and there it is.......from 2006......but there never the less....:wave:


I did what you said and got this...which I think are ways to book vacations in Wildwood. (NEW JERSEY)

Disney in Wildwood, NJ | Wildwood Disney - YP.com (http://www.yellowpages.com/wildwood-nj/disney)

[Bogie Shooter]

I did what you said and got this...which I think are ways to book vacations in Wildwood. (NEW JERSEY)

Disney in Wildwood, NJ | Wildwood Disney - YP.com (http://www.yellowpages.com/wildwood-nj/disney)

Try this:
Developers pursue Wildwood land - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-06-18/news/LWILDWOOD18_1_wildwood-sumter-county-retirees)

[kstew43]

Disney built Golden Oak......its right outside Fort Wilderness. Its absolutly beautiful, tuscany style homes......big bucks, lots starting at $1 million, and thats just for the lot. We get adds all the time... But it does come with some disney perks but they only last the first 2 years, then its just a home, close to disney with outragious HOA;s.... no bonds though.

they are building a regency hotel smack in the center of the golden oak development. Seems like a bad idea to me......buying a mega million dollar home and looking out the back to a 10 story hotel......hummmm....

When you are on the monarail and look past fort wilderness you can see the hotel being built, Golden Oaks wraps around it.....

[graciegirl]

Try this:
Developers pursue Wildwood land - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-06-18/news/LWILDWOOD18_1_wildwood-sumter-county-retirees)


This story is dated in 2006. But who knows?

[gregntam]

see a monorail is in our future:p

Hey!, It's a small world after all....:a20:

[graciegirl]

Hey!, It's a small world after all....:a20:


Are the seven dwarves under 19? Or is it spelled dwarfs. Or is referring to their height politically correct?

[shcisamax]

Are the seven dwarves under 19? Or is it spelled dwarfs. Or is referring to their height politically correct?

Dwarfs is the the preferred but you won't be flogged for using dwarves.

Dwarfism refers to the medical condition but Little People is the recently preferred language for the person.

Amazing what we get into on these threads :)

[gregntam]

Will the new monorail connect us to Disney and the airport?:popcorn:

[123Cookie]

[/COLOR][/B]



Generally speaking and with a lot of leeway a bond on a home five years or younger is...

About 10K for a patio villa.
About 15K for a cottage.(???) Not sure.
About 22K for a designer.
About 50K for a premier.
I haven't heard how much on court yard villa's.

Hope this helps. If we all liked the same stuff they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

GG,
is there some place on web where you can go and plug in value for a home just designed and get what the bond is on that new home - is there a web address for such a page?
br
Cookie

[graciegirl]

GG,
is there some place on web where you can go and plug in value for a home just designed and get what the bond is on that new home - is there a web address for such a page?
br
Cookie


All designers in the same area have the same bond.