Holder on drug sentencing

[Golfingnut]

It's about time. I am tied of my tax dollars paying room an board for some kid that smokes grass.

Justice Dept. to drop some mandatory drug sentences (http://news.msn.com/us/justice-dept-to-drop-some-mandatory-drug-sentences?ocid=ansnews11)

[l2ridehd]

There are no kids in jail that all they did was smoke grass. They had to be selling drugs, doing some other crime while smoking grass or some other drug. A habitual offender of drug usage. No judge today sends a kid to jail for smoking pot. It does not happen.

[SALYBOW]

I am giggling at the "kid who smokes pot references." Do you have any idea how many Villager adults smoke pot? Not as many as those who abuse alcohol I imagine but cannabis abuse is not brought to the ER and I saw a boatload of alcohol abuse being treated. I stay away from all of it. Why invite trouble?

[BarryRX]

If someone is nonviolent and has a substance abuse issue, then treatment is the best choice both for them and for us as a society.

[manaboutown]

Better update your alarm systems and try to burglarproof your homes and businesses. These convicted criminals are gonna need money to purchase their illegal drugs. Guess how most of them will obtain it?

[Monkei]

There are no kids in jail that all they did was smoke grass. They had to be selling drugs, doing some other crime while smoking grass or some other drug. A habitual offender of drug usage. No judge today sends a kid to jail for smoking pot. It does not happen.

I think the point of the message is clear. Not supposed to be literal. But the point is this country, state, counties, send people to jail for drug issues which is not where they need to be.

Selling and distributing drugs is an issue but maybe some drugs should be legalized.

In any event one thing about prisons is the privatizing of them. https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/displayArticle.aspx?articleid=24135&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Should companies get rich or profit on the back of prison?

[gomoho]

Should companies get rich or profit on the back of prison?

I don't really care who gets rich if it eases the burden on the taxpayers. P.S. I believe in our justice system so I'm sure we'll get into it about that!

[billethkid]

The best reality summary I heard today the proposal now officially condones how many courts have already been operating, hence no big impact at the real level.
While there MAY be some good in the repeal of auto sentencing, the change does little or nothing to fix/eliminate the ever growing problem. The over crowding of jails will as a result ONLY continue.

btk

[Golfingnut]

Beer is the gateway drug to crack. My drug of choice is Bud Light, but I am completely aware that it is far more dangerous to me and the general public than pot. Alcohol will give you the delusion that you are 10 feet tall and bullet proof ( thanks Travis). Pot makes you want to eat and listen to music. My generation demands their bourbon and bullets, not cookies and silly music. If you legalized pot and took away alcohol, you would not find enough soldiers ready to go around the world killing people that disagree with us.

Exaggeration, yes, but closer to the truth than the path we are on today. I have tried pot when I was younger and did not like it, but am not foolish enough to give a kid a rap sheet while I have booze on my breath. The person with a few to many drinks is far more dangerous than someone high on pot.

[Monkei]

I don't really care who gets rich if it eases the burden on the taxpayers. P.S. I believe in our justice system so I'm sure we'll get into it about that!

So .... Who would pay the private businesses to warehouse the prisoners? Seems to me your tax dollars are going to pay either way. I would rather not have a middle man carving a profit out for themselves. Privatizing in a lot of cases is not the answer.

[gomoho]

So .... Who would pay the private businesses to warehouse the prisoners? Seems to me your tax dollars are going to pay either way. I would rather not have a middle man carving a profit out for themselves. Privatizing in a lot of cases is not the answer.

Except that in most cases private business has proved they can run an operation more efficiently for less money than any government entity. And it's all about controlling the $$$s spent when it comes to tax $$$s.

[rubicon]

Once again this Administration believes it can sway Americans with euphemisms . Holder equates non violent crimes with non-harmful.

Ask yourself do Drug Dealers peddle non-harmful products?

Ask yourself was Bernie Madoff's investment offerings non-harmful?

Ask yourself are the acts of drug induced people creating mayhem on people by burglarizing their homes, drug stores, etc equate to non-harmful acts
.
Indeed is the wide availability of drugs harmful or non-harmful?

I don't know about others but my message to Holder is "do you believe I just fell out of a tree"?

[billethkid]

the new rule is a signal to many that it is now ok for a large segment of people to use drugs without legal consequence.

And that solves what problem??

Another populism pill for prospective voters.

The watering down of America continues.

btk

[rp001]

The voice of sanity. It is about time this country has realized that locking people up does not solve the problem of "hard drug" usage. In addition the amount of money spent prosecuting and housing, and the permanent damage done to young lives over outdated and ridiculous pot laws is just horrendous..thank God there are some states beginning to see the truth as it is, and not as some backward folks believe it to be..And yes, Florida is definitely backward.

[nitehawk]

A big step forward for total legalizing soft drugs

[Monkei]

Except that in most cases private business has proved they can run an operation more efficiently for less money than any government entity. And it's all about controlling the $$$s spent when it comes to tax $$$s.

It all depends on whether the privatization is regulated or not. Private prisons can make 40,000 a year profit of each inmate... It's a big business for these companies to lock up and keep people locked up. So who is paying this 40,000? You and me an the taxpayers. I don't think a company should profit off the back of prisoners. Much like I don't think a middle man should profit off of sick people.

There are a bunch of examples where unregulated privatization has done much more harm than good.

[Monkei]

the new rule is a signal to many that it is now ok for a large segment of people to use drugs without legal consequence.

And that solves what problem??

Another populism pill for prospective voters.

The watering down of America continues.

btk

I don't see any watering down. The AG basically said that judges should be able use their own common sense in some cases and not be bound by mandatory sentencing. We are not talking about murder suspects walking free here but we are talking about a mandatory sentence for third strike criminals who don't deserve 25 years in prison for a third strike which could be a very minor infraction.

We cannot just keep locking drug users up with no hope of solving the real problem which is their drug habit.

Sure we can pound our chests and say things like all criminals should be locked up but it's not the answer. If it were truly the answer why have sentences at all and simply lock up all convicts for life?

[Golfingnut]

I don't see any watering down. The AG basically said that judges should be able use their own common sense in some cases and not be bound by mandatory sentencing. We are not talking about murder suspects walking free here but we are talking about a mandatory sentence for third strike criminals who don't deserve 25 years in prison for a third strike which could be a very minor infraction.

We cannot just keep locking drug users up with no hope of solving the real problem which is their drug habit.

Sure we can pound our chests and say things like all criminals should be locked up but it's not the answer. If it were truly the answer why have sentences at all and simply lock up all convicts for life?

Exactly!!!!. We already have millions of Americans using alcohol to the extreme and unless they drive or do some other stupid thing, its considered no big deal to stagger out of a bar. So why such stiff penalties for a lesser drug, that being Pot. It just does not have the horrible negative effects on the body that Alcohol abuse does.

[jblum315]

You really think there are no drugs IN prisons?

[graciegirl]

You really think there are no drugs IN prisons?

I know. I can't figure that out. That makes me so mad I could bite.

I am pretty sure that Marijuana is about the same as drinking alcohol.

I think that perhaps it needs to be classified like alcohol.

But the rest are addictive and scary and now presciption drug addiction and sales of prescription drugs which I don't think is being dealt with as strongly as it should be or COULD be. OR the heavy drugs pouring into this country...which is probably one of the biggest problems we have today. THAT causes people to do anything to keep their need satisfied. ANYTHING. It is making ME rethink having a gun.

Yes. I said that.

What is happening to me and to this country? I don't like it.

I for once agree with Mayor Bloomberg on the stop and frisk procedure. If it reduces crime, do it. I don't have a say...I live in Florida and I am from Ohio, but I am watching that issue.

I guess that Edward Snowdon was upholding our right to know what is happening, but he seems like such a trouble maker too. Some things are hard to figure out.

[BarryRX]

As a pharmacist, I always found that the number of people our age hooked on hydrocodone, oxycodone, dilaudid, etc. was a far more serious problem than marijuana. Someone please correct me if my numbers are out of whack, because I am going from memory. Our prisons are very overcrowded and we imprison a larger percentage of our population than Russia or China. Over half of the people in our prisons are in there for non-violent drug offenses. They didn't mug anyone or break into anyone's house. It would be cheaper and much more beneficial to us as a country to fund treatment programs for these folks than to warehouse them with violent criminals and destroy their futures.

[Golfingnut]

I know. I can't figure that out. That makes me so mad I could bite.

I am pretty sure that Marijuana is about the same as drinking alcohol.

I think that perhaps it needs to be classified like alcohol.

But the rest are addictive and scary and now presciption drug addiction and sales of prescription drugs which I don't think is being dealt with as strongly as it should be or COULD be. OR the heavy drugs pouring into this country...which is probably one of the biggest problems we have today. THAT causes people to do anything to keep their need satisfied. ANYTHING. It is making ME rethink having a gun.

Yes. I said that.

What is happening to me and to this country? I don't like it.

I for once agree with Mayor Bloomberg on the stop and frisk procedure. If it reduces crime, do it. I don't have a say...I live in Florida and I am from Ohio, but I am watching that issue.


A Big yes to all of the above. Don't penalize pot smokers any more than bourbon drinkers. And if stop and frisk saves one life per year then do it and pay no attention to anyone that feels it is not fair. Stop calling police instinct and knowledge profiling or stereo typing. I feel it is bad to need a gun, but we do have that need in this country today.

[Ohiogirl]

A Big yes to all of the above. Don't penalize pot smokers any more than bourbon drinkers. And if stop and frisk saves one life per year then do it and pay no attention to anyone that feels it is not fair. Stop calling police instinct and knowledge profiling or stereo typing. I feel it is bad to need a gun, but we do have that need in this country today.

Would any of us feel this way if we were one of the groups "profiled?" I don't think so.

[Golfingnut]

Would any of us feel this way if we were one of the groups "profiled?" I don't think so.

Probably not, but I would like to see not who, but what is the determining factor or factors for stop and frisk. If it due to gang style clothing, signing or other things known to police as indicators, then stop and frisk them. Personal inconvenience is sometimes a result of individual stupidity.

[manaboutown]

It seems to me he is cutting a break for his partners in crime. Good old
Eric was involved in an ARMED campus takeover at Columbia back in the day. He even bragged about it. AG Eric Holder Involved in Armed Takeover at Columbia University as Student | Independent Journal Review (http://www.ijreview.com/2012/10/17749-attorney-general-eric-holder-was-involved-in-armed-raid-at-columbia-university-as-student/)

[graciegirl]

Would any of us feel this way if we were one of the groups "profiled?" I don't think so.

I think cops become color blind if they are doing their job. Many law enforcement officers are minority too. If you are standing somewhere looking suspicious, dawdling, have no reason to be there, I don't know...what people do who are criminals or look suspicious? then find out what is up. If you shouldn't be there and are up to something then you are out. The argument is that it damages people of one race. What damages them is NOT that. We are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

If I were in an area of high crime and prostitution and I was young and good looking and standing on a street corner alone at three in the morning dressed snappily...well...some police officer might be suspicious of me.

Your mothers told you all this stuff. Don't go where there is trouble and you will likely stay out of it. Don't dress like you are trouble and you will avoid trouble. Now you can't say stuff like that or someone will nail you for prejudging, not being fair.

Common sense is dying fast.

[Monkei]

I think cops become color blind if they are doing their job. Many law enforcement officers are minority too. If you are standing somewhere looking suspicious, dawdling, have no reason to be there, I don't know...what people do who are criminals or look suspicious? then find out what is up. If you shouldn't be there and are up to something then you are out. The argument is that it damages people of one race. What damages them is NOT that. We are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

If I were in an area of high crime and prostitution and I was young and good looking and standing on a street corner alone at three in the morning dressed snappily...well...some police officer might be suspicious of me.

Your mothers told you all this stuff. Don't go where there is trouble and you will likely stay out of it. Don't dress like you are trouble and you will avoid trouble. Now you can't say stuff like that or someone will nail you for prejudging, not being fair.

Common sense is dying fast.

Profiling is wrong. It should not be done and especially in a random situation
. I can remember back in the early 70s when I was a high school student with very long hair. I was stopped a few times by the local police for no reason and was not detained or ticketed any of the times and was never told why hey chose to stop me but it was very apparent it was the hair and a lazy cop thinking hair equals drugs. To read the statistics of the stop and frisk in NYC how can anyone deny profiling which in itself is against the law. I didn't like when it happened to me and I don't like that it happens to others. Profiling is wrong.

[Monkei]

It seems to me he is cutting a break for his partners in crime. Good old
Eric was involved in an ARMED campus takeover at Columbia back in the day. He even bragged about it. AG Eric Holder Involved in Armed Takeover at Columbia University as Student | Independent Journal Review (http://www.ijreview.com/2012/10/17749-attorney-general-eric-holder-was-involved-in-armed-raid-at-columbia-university-as-student/)

I don't think his speech had anything to do with that.

[billethkid]

Holder must not be a "good" cop because he is most certainly not color blind....quite the opposite!!! Like too many people in the public's eye, or in positions of responsibility or in politics.......he is extremely racially biased.

btk

[gomoho]

It all depends on whether the privatization is regulated or not. Private prisons can make 40,000 a year profit of each inmate... It's a big business for these companies to lock up and keep people locked up. So who is paying this 40,000? You and me an the taxpayers. I don't think a company should profit off the back of prisoners. Much like I don't think a middle man should profit off of sick people.

There are a bunch of examples where unregulated privatization has done much more harm than good.

You certainly aren't suggesting if the prison is privatized they then get to decide who goes to prison for how long and who stays??? Last time I checked that was still determined by our justice system.

[gomoho]

Dr. Ben Carson said to the young black men "look like a prospect, not a suspect". Good advice that pretty much covers it.

[graciegirl]

Profiling is wrong. It should not be done and especially in a random situation
. I can remember back in the early 70s when I was a high school student with very long hair. I was stopped a few times by the local police for no reason and was not detained or ticketed any of the times and was never told why hey chose to stop me but it was very apparent it was the hair and a lazy cop thinking hair equals drugs. To read the statistics of the stop and frisk in NYC how can anyone deny profiling which in itself is against the law. I didn't like when it happened to me and I don't like that it happens to others. Profiling is wrong.

And if you had lived in our family...they would have said.."Don't come crying to me. Do something with yourself. I doubt it was just the hair."

They also didn't like us out late messing around. I had folks who remembered well about being young. We could hardly get away with ANYTHING.

But that is neither here nor there.

No one with any kind of moral and caring hearts likes to made a judgment about anyone due to race or ethnicities or religion....to hurt one person because of the actions of others of the same color or religion or way of dressing is awful. But sometimes the safety of the majority makes tough decisions necessary.

[rubicon]

Unfortunately in this age of rights the police are placed at a disadvantage.
Police are well versed in what constitutes a "red flag' they know the local wise guys and they know that they need to be careful not to create any breaches least they damage the cases they are building.


The term "profiling" is such an over used excuse by those who use it to manipulate their self serving goals.

I am certainly no fan of Bloomberg but he is on the right side of this issue


This nation is getting more dangerous and some people are placing unnecessary burdens on the men in blue.

Saddest of all is that the people most helped by procedure are blacks and Hispanics who may otherwise become victims.

[Monkei]

There are only so many ways to walk around black in NYC. When 83 percent of those stopped and frisked are black then don't you think someone is wrong? So let's get off this the way the walk and the way they wer their clothes or their hairstyles. Profiling is profiling and its ok when it's a black kid, not so much when it's white middle aged people.

[Monkei]

Unfortunately in this age of rights the police are placed at a disadvantage.
Police are well versed in what constitutes a "red flag' they know the local wise guys and they know that they need to be careful not to create any breaches least they damage the cases they are building.


The term "profiling" is such an over used excuse by those who use it to manipulate their self serving goals.

I am certainly no fan of Bloomberg but he is on the right side of this issue


This nation is getting more dangerous and some people are placing unnecessary burdens on the men in blue.

Saddest of all is that the people most helped by procedure are blacks and Hispanics who may otherwise become victims.

How can being on the wrong side of the constitution be on the right side of an issue?

[Monkei]

And if you had lived in our family...they would have said.."Don't come crying to me. Do something with yourself. I doubt it was just the hair."

They also didn't like us out late messing around. I had folks who remembered well about being young. We could hardly get away with ANYTHING.

But that is neither here nor there.

No one with any kind of moral and caring hearts likes to made a judgment about anyone due to race or ethnicities or religion....to hurt one person because of the actions of others of the same color or religion or way of dressing is awful. But sometimes the safety of the majority makes tough decisions necessary.

Wow if there were only someway young black men could not be young black men.

[Monkei]

Unfortunately in this age of rights the police are placed at a disadvantage.
Police are well versed in what constitutes a "red flag' they know the local wise guys and they know that they need to be careful not to create any breaches least they damage the cases they are building.


The term "profiling" is such an over used excuse by those who use it to manipulate their self serving goals.

I am certainly no fan of Bloomberg but he is on the right side of this issue


This nation is getting more dangerous and some people are placing unnecessary burdens on the men in blue.

Saddest of all is that the people most helped by procedure are blacks and Hispanics who may otherwise become victims.

Actually violent crime is down in the US. Most likely the actions to take lead out of our paints.

[Monkei]

You certainly aren't suggesting if the prison is privatized they then get to decide who goes to prison for how long and who stays??? Last time I checked that was still determined by our justice system.

No but what I am saying is they have lobbyist who push for mandatory sentencing. Mandatory sentences last time i checked were not part of the justice system but derived from the legislative system.

[Villages PL]

DrugFacts: Marijuana | National Institute on Drug Abuse (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana)

Scroll down to where it says, "Effects on Life", and below that where it says, "What Are The Other Effects of Marijuana."

[graciegirl]

Wow if there were only someway young black men could not be young black men.

Think about it. Young black men are getting murdered at higher rates than other ethnicities. It is too often at the hands of other black men. It isn't safe for them to be "hanging out" where there has been crimes committed.

[billethkid]

There are only so many ways to walk around black in NYC. When 83 percent of those stopped and frisked are black then don't you think someone is wrong? So let's get off this the way the walk and the way they wer their clothes or their hairstyles. Profiling is profiling and its ok when it's a black kid, not so much when it's white middle aged people.

I wonder if the fact that maybe 83% of the criminals in jail are of color.....maybe the percent is wrong but it is high...isn't it logical the police would be on the look out for certain "looking" people?

Would it be profiling to be on the lookout for a white guy with a scar on his cheek?

The word as well as the notion of "profiling" is abused. Just analyze the prison population and come up with a description of a tyical prisoners and the crimes they commit. Would the conclusion of the typical inmate be a form of profiling.

Of course it is not.

Profiling is just another means of playing the race card, which is also significantly abused.

When you are going hunting you have to have some idea what to look for....that is the way it has always been...nothing new except the permissive times we live in.

btk

[gomoho]

Well said Billethkid.:agree:

[Monkei]

I wonder if the fact that maybe 83% of the criminals in jail are of color.....maybe the percent is wrong but it is high...isn't it logical the police would be on the look out for certain "looking" people?

Would it be profiling to be on the lookout for a white guy with a scar on his cheek?

The word as well as the notion of "profiling" is abused. Just analyze the prison population and come up with a description of a tyical prisoners and the crimes they commit. Would the conclusion of the typical inmate be a form of profiling.

Of course it is not.

Profiling is just another means of playing the race card, which is also significantly abused.



When you are going hunting you have to have some idea what to look for....that is the way it has always been...nothing new except the permissive times we live in.

btk

Picking up all the black kids and throwing the good ones back out on the street is not right. You cannot assume a black person is guilty just because they are black is not the way our justice system is supposed to work. Black people are supposed to be considered innocent with constitutional rights just like all the other races.

Obviously we must now have a different constitution for blacks and whites.

[Villages PL]

I think I heard a discussion about this on the radio and it was said that non-violent drug users/sellers might be confined to house arrest and would wear an ankle bracelet.

[Monkei]

Think about it. Young black men are getting murdered at higher rates than other ethnicities. It is too often at the hands of other black men. It isn't safe for them to be "hanging out" where there has been crimes committed.

Except ... Last time I checked the act of hanging out was not a crime.

[graciegirl]

Except ... Last time I checked the act of hanging out was not a crime.

You didn't know my mother.

[Monkei]

You didn't know my mother.

My loss.

[gomoho]

Obviously.

[DougB]

Would any of us feel this way if we were one of the groups "profiled?" I don't think so.

I don't mind an officer stopping and frisking me if she is cute!

[billethkid]

Picking up all the black kids and throwing the good ones back out on the street is not right. You cannot assume a black person is guilty just because they are black is not the way our justice system is supposed to work. Black people are supposed to be considered innocent with constitutional rights just like all the other races.

Obviously we must now have a different constitution for blacks and whites.

I would not support assuming a black pers,on is any more guilty than anybody else. Just like we would not assume white or any other color motorcycle riders in black leather with a chain on his wallet and a 6 inch beard is guilty either. Or if a suspect was driving a white Honda, no matter what color driver, we would not assume they are guilty either.

Nobody was promoting picking up all the black kids.....not sure why one would present that view.

btk

[Monkei]

I would not support assuming a black pers,on is any more guilty than anybody else. Just like we would not assume white or any other color motorcycle riders in black leather with a chain on his wallet and a 6 inch beard is guilty either. Or if a suspect was driving a white Honda, no matter what color driver, we would not assume they are guilty either.

Nobody was promoting picking up all the black kids.....not sure why one would present that view.

btk

Except for mayor Bloomberg and the NYC chief of police.

[DougB]

And if you had lived in our family...they would have said.."Don't come crying to me. Do something with yourself. I doubt it was just the hair."

They also didn't like us out late messing around. I had folks who remembered well about being young. We could hardly get away with ANYTHING.

But that is neither here nor there.

No one with any kind of moral and caring hearts likes to made a judgment about anyone due to race or ethnicities or religion....to hurt one person because of the actions of others of the same color or religion or way of dressing is awful. But sometimes the safety of the majority makes tough decisions necessary.

Sorry, Gracie, but Monkei speaks the truth. I also had long hair in the late 60s and early 70s and yes, police did pull me over many, many times because of the length of my hair and search my car. They wouldn't even deny that was why. No one cried to anyone. We had as much right to long hair as you had to that B52 hairdo you probably had

[gomoho]

Sorry, Gracie, but Monkei speaks the truth. I also had long hair in the late 60s and early 70s and yes, police did pull me over many, many times because of the length of my hair and search my car. They wouldn't even deny that was why. No one cried to anyone. We had as much right to long hair as you had to that B52 hairdo you probably had

And along with those choices sometimes come consequences. We chose to look that way because it was unconventional and basically telling society we can do what we choose. All this is fine - been there done that. But with that choice comes the consequences of those actions. Fair - maybe not, but it is reality and when you portray yourself as living outside the norm then you are going to be looked at.

[DougB]

I agree with you. Like I said no one went home crying. We usually had a good time with the officers. Just letting Gracie know that yes Monkei was probably pulled over because of his hair. These were choices we made. Profiling because of the color of ones skin or heritage is a different thing

[gomoho]

I'm not sure it is because of the color of someone's skin. Think it has more to do with the image they are conveying i.e. gansta.

[graciegirl]

All of these things have merit as valid arguments. My husband would not have kept his job with a large corporation if he had refused to fit the part of "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit". If you want a job and work for someone you have to play by those rules.

My grandkids can't have tattoos or piercings as long as I am paying for their college education. I think if you look like a rat, you will be treated like a rat. And I don't know what a B52 hairdo is. Is a B52 an airplane? I was three when the second world war was over.

Doug. Time out. Sit there and think it over. ;)

Oh by the way...I like for kids to look in style and not like nerds, on my computer screen is a picture of our two grands here at Christmas. Our 20 year old grandson has a beatles haircut and he is awesome looking.

[DougB]

Now you have gone and disappointed me. I imagined you as a pretty hip chick back in the 60s. The Beehive is a woman's hairstyle that resembles a beehive. Very fashionable. Think of Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[graciegirl]

Now you have gone and disappointed me. I imagined you as a pretty hip chick back in the 60s. The Beehive is a woman's hairstyle that resembles a beehive. Very fashionable. Think of Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Didn't you say B52? I had a Beehive and I had mini skirts and white boots made for walkin'. But that was the seventies we are talkin' about.

[DougB]

Yes, a B 52 was a style of beehive hairdo