New Gate to be placed. Wall will be removed.

[graciegirl]

Read this morning's Daily Sun. Article from VHA president in Local. Resolution did take more than 48 hours. Pays to be patient.

Can someone take a picture of that article and post it here for people off campus? My camera battery just died.

[villages07]

.... copied post to existing cart path closing thread

[DandyGirl]

Too bad they didn't come to this resolution before some idiot sprayed their view on the wall.

[nitakk]

And to give credit to the VHA - please!!! This organization has done nothing for the residents and I feel this was a staged event to give them credit where none was deserved. It took them four days to even mention this in the paper when the wall was one of the biggest events in our area since the Moffett mess. I smell something very fishy here. If the useless VHA expects my gratitude, they are in for a disappointment.

[graciegirl]

And to give credit to the VHA - please!!! This organization has done nothing for the residents and I feel this was a staged event to give them credit where none was deserved. It took them four days to even mention this in the paper when the wall was one of the biggest events in our area since the Moffett mess. I smell something very fishy here. If the useless VHA expects my gratitude, they are in for a disappointment.

Not surprised at your response. The rest of us can come to our own conclusions. I think Village07's idea about Morse closing it just before the meeting with Fruitland Park may have been the issue since the wall was installed just prior to that meeting with the Fruitland Park officials and Fruitland Park might have wanted access to Colony via golf cart and could site the open gate on Paradise Trail.. We may never know.

He still may be Attilla the Hun. He may have caved due to pressure and outcry but the folks who needed to go to work and to the doctors and to Walmart in their carts will soon be able to do so.

All's well, that ends well.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

And to give credit to the VHA - please!!! This organization has done nothing for the residents and I feel this was a staged event to give them credit where none was deserved. It took them four days to even mention this in the paper when the wall was one of the biggest events in our area since the Moffett mess. I smell something very fishy here. If the useless VHA expects my gratitude, they are in for a disappointment.

What can one possibly say in response to this?

"The VHA is useless. If they did have anything to do with this, we shouldn't give them any credit because the whole thing was staged to make them look like they did something. It had to be that way because as we all know, the VHA is useless."

You've pretty much got it covered no matter what happens.

The term circular reasoning come into my mind for some reason.

[rp001]

Is the deal finalized? I read it as a "proposal". The whole debacle has a very "odd" flavor, that's for sure..I don't see any gain from this for anyone, other than to formally restrict access, which to me, is a good thing. Sure left a bad taste in my mouth and raises a lot of trust issues in the way it was carried out. I know that Morse is a quiet man who keeps things close to his chest, but he definitely needs a good PR person, cause this just stunk from the start to finish, if it is finished. I definitely don't trust the VHA, just another bunch of bought and paid for politicians as far as I'm concerned.

[graciegirl]

I don't trust the POA either. I want a new one without bias.

[quirky3]

I wonder who ultimately pays for the wall construction and removal

[graciegirl]

I wonder who ultimately pays for the wall construction and removal

You need to move here to see that it cannot be part of our amenity fees.

[JeffAVEWS]

How shrewd is this, he took lemons and made lemonade! Ya gotta tip your hat to the guy.

[nitakk]

All's well, that ends well.

And I am not surprised by your response as well.

[Arctic Fox]

Is the deal finalized? I read it as a "proposal".


From the newspaper article, it appears to be very much just a proposal at this stage. If it does go through then that would be excellent.

Sure, the whole thing may be a stunt by the VHA, or a way for the developer to quietly back down after so much negative reaction without losing face, but does that really matter?

If we get our cart path back then let's put this behind us and head off to Aldi.



I did like the other related story in the Daily Sun - "the police have noticed golf carts being driven alongside 441".

No explanation as to why golf carts have suddenly appeared there, of course.

[Bizdoc]

I did like the other related story in the Daily Sun - "the police have noticed golf carts being driven alongside 441".

No explanation as to why golf carts have suddenly appeared there, of course.

Must be magic! Is Universal going to build Harry Potterland 3.0 here in The Villages?

[EdV]

What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk’s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to ‘our’ facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk’s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he’s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.

[redwitch]

Hope this is a true resolution and not just a smoke screen so that the wall will stay up long enough to preclude loss of any possible easement rights.

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers? Sure hope not.

Sorry to sound so cynical but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth and something being "proposed" is not quite the same is something being truly done.

[champion6]

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers?The article says the developer will donate the home site on Paradise Drive to the district government.

[blueash]

The strange sentence in the newspaper says that
"The VHA proposed solution is a compromise reached after hearing the various concerns of residents and meeting with both the district and the developer."

This seems to say that Mr. Gottschalk or members of the VHA met with Mr. Morse (or his representatives). I also read it that there were proposals and counter proposals which resulted in a compromise. I await Mr. Gottschalk's report to the VHA of what he was told, why suddenly after 20 years there were liability concerns which are somehow alleviated by a different kind of gate which will still allow carts to drive across "private property" (which private property, his or someone else's) and why if a better gate was a solution for the developer's concerns why that wasn't the original design change and why was there no public notice and even perhaps (forgive the thought) an opportunity for public input. I look forward to seeing what role the local governments may have had if in fact this wall went up without a permit in the decision to have it come done. And how quickly it comes down.

[graciegirl]

Hope this is a true resolution and not just a smoke screen so that the wall will stay up long enough to preclude loss of any possible easement rights.

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers? Sure hope not.

Sorry to sound so cynical but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth and something being "proposed" is not quite the same is something being truly done.

.

I will bet my best Sunday hat, this will work out fine and be history in no time.

[ROCKETMAN]

The comment in the article in the paper mentions outsiders coming in this gate to use our facilities. Other than stonecrest, what outsiders are they talking about? Also other than the championship courses which at times they pay double to play, you need a pass to use our facilities. Restaurants I am sure welcome outsiders. Everyone who has been here for a while knows the vha is the developers newsletter similar to the sun. The only useful info in their publication is the open forum. The poa got millions of dollars from the developer but had to go to court to get it. Fruitland park will think long and hard about doubling it's population under the developers arrangements. Maybe he wants a wall between where the villages will end and fruitland park other residents live.:bigbow: PS Lakeside landing residents can drive their street legal golf carts and they are a lot closer than stonecrest.

[TVMayor]

Everybody has access to all roads in TV by car because they are public roads. The area outside of the �The Wall� is open to Stonecrest AKA Everybody. So everybody can go every place but everybody can not pass thru the new gate to spend money at TV restaurants and businesses. Judging by the history of closed restaurants in SS everybody�s support is needed. Is Mr Big looking for more empty buildings?????

[bob47]

What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk�s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to �our� facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk�s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he�s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.


It may be that the developer is power hungry and greedy and controlling, and that contributed to this situation. However, the fact that you continue to stir the pot after a solution has been proposed that seems to address the concerns of all the affected residents makes me wonder about your motiviation.

Perhaps if you have such interest in how things are done in The Villages, you should make an investment in property here.

[justjim]

Sorry I missed the "battle" (road trip) but I read most of the posts. Lots of emotions displayed. Thanks to TOTV there was a place for opinions to be aired and voices to be heard. One thing that comes out of the whole crazy mess is that the VHA has the "ear" of the Developer. Of course, many knew that already. But this is not a "bad" thing either. POA has their place too----why I support both organizations. In this instance, like my mother use to say----" Jim, you catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar".

[Mikeod]

What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk�s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to �our� facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk�s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he�s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.
Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.

[rp001]

I don't trust the POA either. I want a new one without bias.

I like the bias, as long as it is FOR the resident's interest and not a sounding board for the developer.

[justjim]

Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.

Mike: You make a good point. We may never know all of the reasons the "Wall" was put up. I know that some Stonecrest people are going to be disappointed by this arrangement of a gate for Villager residents to get out and in but they can't get in the gate. We will see how strong an issue they make this proposed gate. :ohdear:

[linko38]

The comment in the article in the paper mentions outsiders coming in this gate to use our facilities. Other than stonecrest, what outsiders are they talking about? Also other than the championship courses which at times they pay double to play, you need a pass to use our facilities. Restaurants I am sure welcome outsiders. Everyone who has been here for a while knows the vha is the developers newsletter similar to the sun. The only useful info in their publication is the open forum. The poa got millions of dollars from the developer but had to go to court to get it. Fruitland park will think long and hard about doubling it's population under the developers arrangements. Maybe he wants a wall between where the villages will end and fruitland park other residents live.:bigbow: PS Lakeside landing residents can drive their street legal golf carts and they are a lot closer than stonecrest.

I'd like to know what facilities they think Stonecrest residents are using? We spend money in the stores and restaurants. We go to the movies. It was a way to have fun with my Grandson when he visited. There are places we arent allowed to go such as katie Bells and such. No problem. And who ever questioned getting into Stonecrest is mistaken. You can drive around the side of Walmart. Past Sonic to the front gate if you go to Curves or the country club. I could care less. I feel no resentment toward people in the Villages however i have always felt it coming from the Villages people. Not the friendliest home town to me.

[redwitch]

.

I will bet my best Sunday hat, this will work out fine and be history in no time.

I'd put up my best Sunday hat, but it's a baseball cap and I refuse to risk losing it. :icon_wink:

So, sure hope you're right. However, if the bet is that you will eat said hat, it would almost be worth losing the access just to see what kind of meal you turn it into. YUMMMM

[oot]

I'd like to know what facilities they think Stonecrest residents are using? We spend money in the stores and restaurants. We go to the movies. It was a way to have fun with my Grandson when he visited. There are places we arent allowed to go such as katie Bells and such. No problem. And who ever questioned getting into Stonecrest is mistaken. You can drive around the side of Walmart. Past Sonic to the front gate if you go to Curves or the country club. I could care less. I feel no resentment toward people in the Villages however i have always felt it coming from the Villages people. Not the friendliest home town to me.

You will always find those who don't agree - human nature I guess.

I know people who live in Stonecrest who have relatives who live in the Villages. They come visit here by car, and we usually go over there by car to visit them as well. It is quicker and much more comfortable than riding that trail!

I bet if some of those who live here actually met some of the people who live there, they might actually like them! The Villages vs Stonecrest war is just plain silly in my books.:boxing2: In the end, they are retirees, just like us!!!

[linko38]

You will always find those who don't agree - human nature I guess.

I know people who live in Stonecrest who have relatives who live in the Villages. They come visit here by car, and we usually go over there by car to visit them as well. It is quicker and much more comfortable than riding that trail!

I bet if some of those who live here actually met some of the people who live there, they might actually like them! The Villages vs Stonecrest war is just plain silly in my books.:boxing2: In the end, they are retirees, just like us!!!

Exactly. I have friends who live in the Villages. My husband and I are not wealthy by any means. We would drive around admiring landscaping on our golf cart when the weather cooled down. It was a cheap and inexpensive way of enjoying life. The golf cart just added to the fun. I always rented a cart when I had company from the Villages to take people and show them around. Some people actually ended up renting in the Villages looking toward a future home purchase. I'm just really sad that this happened.

[tucson]

Thevillagesfloridabook.com has a good article in it, w/postings from TOTV...

[Hancle704]

I read the "proposal" in the paper. There did not seem to be any agreement mentioned. Leaves me wondering why the developer would want to buy the adjacent home to satisfy the proposer. Maybe there will be a suggestion that it go to the AAC to see if they would approve the expenditure. Lastly, I recall years ago going through there in my golf cart to get to doctor's office and seem to recall there was a small gate operated by resident's gate card. I think the gate was frequently damaged and don't know if it was finally eliminated. Maybe the long term residents of the area would know.

[karostay]

I hear it's going to be a toll gate swipe your villages Id and the toll will be added to you amenities fee $1 either direction :boxing2:

[EdV]

It may be that the developer is power hungry and greedy and controlling, and that contributed to this situation. However, the fact that you continue to stir the pot after a solution has been proposed that seems to address the concerns of all the affected residents makes me wonder about your motiviation.

Perhaps if you have such interest in how things are done in The Villages, you should make an investment in property here.

The VHA proposal most certainly does not address the concerns of all the affected residents.

Now if you want to debate the issue intelligently, fine, but leave out the sarcastic remarks, thank you.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

The VHA proposal most certainly does not address the concerns of all the affected residents.

Now if you want to debate the issue intelligently, fine, but leave out the sarcastic remarks, thank you.

Everyone needs to calm down, act as adults, and I truly think the rude and nasty remarks need to be halted without delay...it served absolutely no purpose. Please, please:shocked:

[rubicon]

Exactly. I have friends who live in the Villages. My husband and I are not wealthy by any means. We would drive around admiring landscaping on our golf cart when the weather cooled down. It was a cheap and inexpensive way of enjoying life. The golf cart just added to the fun. I always rented a cart when I had company from the Villages to take people and show them around. Some people actually ended up renting in the Villages looking toward a future home purchase. I'm just really sad that this happened.

linko38: This issue is not personal to me, meaning not a personal affront on anyone. But like you my wife and I like to travel by cart and admire the landscaping too. However, we paid premium dollars for that opportunity.
The Villages is getting very crowded and when all the seasonal residents and renters arrive the cart paths look like I-4. It is only going to get worse when this development is built out. So it is understandable that some residents are sensitive about this issue. I suspect there are a great number of people who live outside the villages that use the cart paths. It was told to me by employees of our golf Administration that outsiders have been sneaking on to our golf courses. Certainly you would agree this is not right or fair?

Having said that perhaps you can understand why some village residents get upset about non residents utilizing their privately and residents financed cart paths.

There is also another perspective here and that is the safety factor of golf carts traveling in and around 441.

Non residents have access to use public roads whether traveling by car or LSV and enjoy many of the amenities here.

I can tell you I had a resident from Stone Crest literally laugh in my face after telling me I was foolish to pay all that money to live in The Villages when he purchased in Stone Crest and still could get the village's lifestyle.

I support the Developer's move to build this wall and hope he does not replace it with a gate because all that is going to do is encourage some to break through the gate time and time again. I suspect the Developer had some real legitimate business reasons for his move.


Personal Best Regards:

[EdV]

Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.

You could be right Mike, it�s hard to say. But unfortunately he should have thought about this decades ago when he decided to take advantage of the new CDD law and then turn the roads over to the Counties to maintain.

You�re either a privately developed community with private roads maintained by its residents (like Stonecrest) or you�re a Community Development district built with tax free bonds with County roads open to the public. He can�t have it both ways.

[Peachie]

You could be right Mike, it’s hard to say. But unfortunately he should have thought about this decades ago when he decided to take advantage of the new CDD law and then turn the roads over to the Counties to maintain.

You’re either a privately developed community with private roads maintained by its residents (like Stonecrest) or you’re a Community Development district built with tax free bonds with County roads open to the public. He can’t have it both ways.

EdV, isn't the private path that is to be gated at the end of The Villages cart path and not on the public road? We're not debating public road use.... or am I mistaken?

[Number 6]

linko38: This issue is not personal to me, meaning not a personal affront on anyone. But like you my wife and I like to travel by cart and admire the landscaping too. However, we paid premium dollars for that opportunity.
The Villages is getting very crowded and when all the seasonal residents and renters arrive the cart paths look like I-4. It is only going to get worse when this development is built out. So it is understandable that some residents are sensitive about this issue. I suspect there are a great number of people who live outside the villages that use the cart paths. It was told to me by employees of our golf Administration that outsiders have been sneaking on to our golf courses. Certainly you would agree this is not right or fair?

Having said that perhaps you can understand why some village residents get upset about non residents utilizing their privately and residents financed cart paths.

There is also another perspective here and that is the safety factor of golf carts traveling in and around 441.

Non residents have access to use public roads whether traveling by car or LSV and enjoy many of the amenities here.

I can tell you I had a resident from Stone Crest literally laugh in my face after telling me I was foolish to pay all that money to live in The Villages when he purchased in Stone Crest and still could get the village's lifestyle.

I support the Developer's move to build this wall and hope he does not replace it with a gate because all that is going to do is encourage some to break through the gate time and time again. I suspect the Developer had some real legitimate business reasons for his move.


Personal Best Regards:

thank you. I think that is pretty well stated. We are not talking about the use of public roads, but private bridge and trails. Big difference in my book.

[TVMayor]

So I figure I need to go to the next VHA meeting. I went the web page, clicked on ever tab looking for a meeting schedule, if they have a schedule it is well hidden or they are a stealth organization.

[njbchbum]

does anyone really think that the gate proposal is going to happen? to do so, the developer's proposal must be submitted to the amenity authority committee for their approval and recomendation to the vccdd. they have the oppty to amend and return to the developer for review/approval; whence it will return to the acc for another go-round. when finally approved by the acc it will go to the vccdd with the recommendation to approve and the same review/revise/approve routine will take place. and after all is reviewed/revised/approved - the property must be deeded over - and only then can the gate be installed; which i guess will be dependent on when it can be delivered. i wonder if that one, new gate must go out for bid or if it can be tagged to the existing contract.

unless the town of lady lake determines that the wall must come down because it went up without a permit, i do not see this event taking place anytime soon.

meeting dates for the acc/vccdd are available on the district govt website - not encouraging.
amenity authority committee meeting schedule/agendas/minutes: http://www.districtgov.org/aac/aac.aspx
vccdd webpage with links to meetings/agendas/minutes: http://www.districtgov.org/yourdistrict/front.aspx?district=vc

[EdV]

thank you. I think that is pretty well stated. We are not talking about the use of public roads, but private bridge and trails. Big difference in my book.

Then explain to me exactly what private bridge and trails are you referring to. Give us specific names and location. No broad brush off the wall undocumented wild guesses.

That will also answer Peachie's question.

I'm all ears, pray tell.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

It is clear that no one can know for sure when and what will happen....I think we should all agree to "just wait and see" and go on from this post

[justjim]

rubicon: You might be right about breaking down the new gate by outsiders. Did not someone say that was a problem years ago when they had such a gate? I have many times thought that every golf cart should have some type of identifying sticker or plate for safety and identification reasons. A small fee for Village residents of $5.00 yearly and twice that for others outside TV. This money could be used to help maintain the trails and there would be no need for a costly gate. Just a thought. Ooops I see "shots" coming!

[EdV]

And while the VHS wastes a lot of time trying to implement the equivalent of a blockade into and out of public roads, it will bide time for Stonecrest to prepare their salvo.

You see, as I recently reported to everyone, the electric company that owns the land between Albi�s and WalMart has given their real estate division the go ahead to sell off the dirt golf cart path behind their distribution facility so that they can extricate themselves from the dreaded �liability Issues� that the cart trespassers present.

So the Stonecrest POA will purchase that land and place an identical access gate to the one that the VCCDD erects at their end. The Stonecrest gate of course will allow Stonecrest residents in and out but deny others. No Walmart for you TV!

So if TV residents think the VHA solution is fair, they should have no problem accepting my solution for Stonecrest.

As the old War song goes, �What will this solve? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

[Peachie]

And while the VHS wastes a lot of time trying to implement the equivalent of a blockade into and out of public roads, it will bide time for Stonecrest to prepare their salvo.

You see, as I recently reported to everyone, the electric company that owns the land between Albi�s and WalMart has given their real estate division the go ahead to sell off the dirt golf cart path behind their distribution facility so that they can extricate themselves from the dreaded �liability Issues� that the cart trespassers present.

So the Stonecrest POA will purchase that land and place an identical access gate to the one that the VCCDD erects at their end. The Stonecrest gate of course will allow Stonecrest residents in and out but deny others. No Walmart for you TV!

So if TV residents think the VHA solution is fair, they should have no problem accepting my solution for Stonecrest.

As the old War song goes, �What will this solve? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

EdV, respectfully, Stonecrest does have access to all of the public roads in the historic section. Implying that The Villages is required to provide private golf cart paths to Stonecrest members seems implausible.

Should Stonecrest provide access for cars and carts to cut through their subdivision if there is a public road on the other side of the subdivision that would make The Villagers life easier?

[Villageshooter]

This will not turn out all okay this is all huge smokescreen! I want the POA to represent me, I want I want their bias it is not motivated by money as opposed to the other organization who the Morris has in his back pocket and rules at his whim, It all boils down to one thing money And ultimately it will come out of our pockets So for my money the POA is the only organization to belong to others can just keep drinking the Kool-Aid

[gomoho]

First of all if you let up on the pressure it will probably not happen and just fade away.

Second, this bickering between TV and Stonecrest is a diversionary tactic that plays right into the developer's hand. Sounds like another government I know!

[Steve9930]

EdV, respectfully, Stonecrest does have access to all of the public roads in the historic section. Implying that The Villages is required to provide private golf cart paths to Stonecrest members seems implausible.

Should Stonecrest provide access for cars and carts to cut through their subdivision if there is a public road on the other side of the subdivision that would make The Villagers life easier?

The last I heard Stonecrest POA is not purchasing the land behind Duke (Progress Energy) Substation. Wal-Mart and the Power Company lawyers are working out the details. At this point all I know is the parties involved are still negotiating and the deal looks promising.

[redwitch]

Ed, I'm on your side -- I have no issue with visitors using our paths, whether they are visiting family, neighbors or Stonecrest folks. All I would ask is that everyone show respect for our home by following the rules of the road and not littering.

However, I do understand other folks' concerns and issues. I had always thought the bridge crossing 441 was paid for and maintained by Villagers (at least I've never seen a public entity painting the bridge, etc.). I know we pay to maintain the paths. So, I can see the objections to using the paths (don't agree, but can see the concerns). However, I can see no reason why folks from Stonecrest and Spruce Creek would not be welcome to use the paths that are not directly adjacent to the streets (such as those on Morse vs. those on El Camino) since these are maintained by the counties and paid for by all local taxpayers.

From what I've seen and heard in my seven years here, there really aren't that many who have traveled via golf cart from your end to TV, probably less than 1% of those who used the now-closed opening to TV. I think Stonecrest would have a better argument to prevent us from using their paid for and maintained paths considering the amount of traffic they would get.

Also, it will be interesting to see what type of gate is installed. Let's face it, the gates with arms just don't do the trick -- way too easily broken. Maybe they'll turn it into a manned gate?

I really hope that once (if?) the wall is down and a gate installed it doesn't cause any more hard feelings between our visiting neighbors and TVers. Life's too short to be so petty.

[ttown]

We (villagers) could have broken the old gate arms...we seem to do it elsewhere.
Also, the things north of the gate are as enjoyable as the things easily reached south of the gate. Maybe golf cart accessible means Cracker Barrel, Takis, Aldis, Bealls , Firehouse Subs etc.

[Steve9930]

We (villagers) could have broken the old gate arms...we seem to do it elsewhere.
Also, the things north of the gate are as enjoyable as the things easily reached south of the gate. Maybe golf cart accessible means Cracker Barrel, Takis, Aldis, Bealls , Firehouse Subs etc.


You could call in your order then I will drive down and hand it to you over the wall. At a small reasonable deliver charge....:-)

[Indydealmaker]

Here is the text of an email from the POA:

THE GREAT WALL OF PARADISE
Sometime between Friday evening August 9 and 6 a.m. Saturday morning August 10, 2013, the golf cart trail between Paradise Drive and The Villages Health System East Campus was closed off with two sections of concrete wall that matched the wall behind the properties on either side of the trail. This trail, which was maintained by the health system commercial property owners� association, had been used for the last two decades by eastside residents as a way to access the medical facilities there. Over time, other businesses have sprung up just north of the medical facilities (Lowes, Beall�s, Aldi�s, Wal-Mart, Cracker Barrel, etc.) and many eastside residents have found it to be a godsend that they can satisfy many of their shopping needs via golf cart and not venture out on the always busy state road 27/441. Area residents we spoke to were beside themselves wondering how they could get to doctor appointments on the other side of the wall. While most residents have the alternative of using their car, clearly there are those who do not have a car, can no longer drive or are afraid to drive on busy roads. In some cases we were advised of couples where one uses the golf cart to get to a job at an eastside business while the spouse uses the car for other necessary trips. The recurring question we got from affected residents was Why?

The closure was done under cover of darkness, no prior notice of the closing had been given to residents and up until WednesdayAugust 14th, no one was taking responsibility for erecting the wall which is on Developer owned property. With no other recourse, eastside residents have been utilizing a section of amenity maintained property a short distance south of the closed trail, just north of the Boone gate, to access the south end of the medical campus via the parking lot of the Life Family Practice Center. Dr. Kraucak who owns the facility has been kind enough to allow golf cart traffic during this crisis. Some eastside residents were even �walled out� Saturday morning, having gone to their night shift jobs at eastside businesses before the wall was put up. Out of necessity, they had to drive their golf carts along the 27/441 grass right-of-way to get home.

On Wednesday August 14th, it was reported in the Daily Sun that the Developer indeed had put up the wall because of a concern for security and that the Developer would �donate to the district government the home site on Paradise Drive, which had previously been utilized as a golf cart path. As a condition of that donation, the district would build and maintain a gate that would allow access to Village residents only.� Not surprisingly, the Daily Sun headline stated �VHA president proposes solution to golf cart issue.� All of you who attended the �Take Down The Wall� rally Monday morning at Spanish Springs town square heard POA President Elaine Dreidame explain that the POA had engaged an attorney who had already begun working through legal channels to urge the Developer to find a solution to the problem the wall had created for residents. At this point, the VHA was still following the �party line� and denying the closing had anything to do with the Developer. Meanwhile, the POA President was also talking to AAC members and Lady Lake officials regarding alternative solutions if discussions with the Developer were not successful.

The important thing is that the wall will come down with the only change being that the amenity system will maintain the trail and gates rather than the medical system property owners� association. If security was the only reason for concern, it seems like the solution was pretty obvious and would have saved all the time and expense it took for the Developer to cast the wall sections and have them installed and more importantly, avoided the tremendous amount of angst it created in hundreds of residents. And if security was the only concern, why was the wall put up in the middle of the night, on a weekend, with no notice to residents, and why the silence until Wednesday�s Daily Sun article ? We hope next time the Developer will provide advanced notice for changes that affect residents in such a major way, so that together they can come up with a solution before any heavy-handed action is taken. For now, it seems Eastside residents can relax without fear of losing their much advertised golf cart access to doctors and other businesses.
Property Owners' Association, P.O. Box 1657, Lady Lake, FL 32158-1657 Property Owners, Association of Florida (http://www.poa4us.org)

[njbchbum]

thanx, steve!

[Warren Kiefer]

And to give credit to the VHA - please!!! This organization has done nothing for the residents and I feel this was a staged event to give them credit where none was deserved. It took them four days to even mention this in the paper when the wall was one of the biggest events in our area since the Moffett mess. I smell something very fishy here. If the useless VHA expects my gratitude, they are in for a disappointment.

I would bet the farm on the truth of your comment.

[buggyone]

Too much effort and wasted energy has been put into this thread. It will be taken care of with or without your input.

Take a deep breath, have a healthy swig of Kool-Aid, and play a round of free executive golf. No reservations are needed at this time of year.

[rhood]

I would bet the farm on the truth of your comment.

Hey, I get a free Chick Fil A with my VHA card. That's what they are good for.

[SpicyCajunPugs]

Too much effort and wasted energy has been put into this thread. It will be taken care of with or without your input.

Take a deep breath, have a healthy swig of Kool-Aid, and play a round of free executive golf. No reservations are needed at this time of year.

I AGREE :icon_wink:

[NIPAS K-9]

:1rotfl::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popco rn:I hear it's going to be a toll gate swipe your villages Id and the toll will be added to you amenities fee $1 either direction :boxing2:

[Warren Kiefer]

EXCELLENT COMMENT AND PROBABLY THE MOST FACTUAL TO DATE.Here is the text of an email from the POA:

THE GREAT WALL OF PARADISE
Sometime between Friday evening August 9 and 6 a.m. Saturday morning August 10, 2013, the golf cart trail between Paradise Drive and The Villages Health System East Campus was closed off with two sections of concrete wall that matched the wall behind the properties on either side of the trail. This trail, which was maintained by the health system commercial property owners� association, had been used for the last two decades by eastside residents as a way to access the medical facilities there. Over time, other businesses have sprung up just north of the medical facilities (Lowes, Beall�s, Aldi�s, Wal-Mart, Cracker Barrel, etc.) and many eastside residents have found it to be a godsend that they can satisfy many of their shopping needs via golf cart and not venture out on the always busy state road 27/441. Area residents we spoke to were beside themselves wondering how they could get to doctor appointments on the other side of the wall. While most residents have the alternative of using their car, clearly there are those who do not have a car, can no longer drive or are afraid to drive on busy roads. In some cases we were advised of couples where one uses the golf cart to get to a job at an eastside business while the spouse uses the car for other necessary trips. The recurring question we got from affected residents was Why?

The closure was done under cover of darkness, no prior notice of the closing had been given to residents and up until WednesdayAugust 14th, no one was taking responsibility for erecting the wall which is on Developer owned property. With no other recourse, eastside residents have been utilizing a section of amenity maintained property a short distance south of the closed trail, just north of the Boone gate, to access the south end of the medical campus via the parking lot of the Life Family Practice Center. Dr. Kraucak who owns the facility has been kind enough to allow golf cart traffic during this crisis. Some eastside residents were even �walled out� Saturday morning, having gone to their night shift jobs at eastside businesses before the wall was put up. Out of necessity, they had to drive their golf carts along the 27/441 grass right-of-way to get home.

On Wednesday August 14th, it was reported in the Daily Sun that the Developer indeed had put up the wall because of a concern for security and that the Developer would �donate to the district government the home site on Paradise Drive, which had previously been utilized as a golf cart path. As a condition of that donation, the district would build and maintain a gate that would allow access to Village residents only.� Not surprisingly, the Daily Sun headline stated �VHA president proposes solution to golf cart issue.� All of you who attended the �Take Down The Wall� rally Monday morning at Spanish Springs town square heard POA President Elaine Dreidame explain that the POA had engaged an attorney who had already begun working through legal channels to urge the Developer to find a solution to the problem the wall had created for residents. At this point, the VHA was still following the �party line� and denying the closing had anything to do with the Developer. Meanwhile, the POA President was also talking to AAC members and Lady Lake officials regarding alternative solutions if discussions with the Developer were not successful.

The important thing is that the wall will come down with the only change being that the amenity system will maintain the trail and gates rather than the medical system property owners� association. If security was the only reason for concern, it seems like the solution was pretty obvious and would have saved all the time and expense it took for the Developer to cast the wall sections and have them installed and more importantly, avoided the tremendous amount of angst it created in hundreds of residents. And if security was the only concern, why was the wall put up in the middle of the night, on a weekend, with no notice to residents, and why the silence until Wednesday�s Daily Sun article ? We hope next time the Developer will provide advanced notice for changes that affect residents in such a major way, so that together they can come up with a solution before any heavy-handed action is taken. For now, it seems Eastside residents can relax without fear of losing their much advertised golf cart access to doctors and other businesses.
Property Owners' Association, P.O. Box 1657, Lady Lake, FL 32158-1657 Property Owners, Association of Florida (http://www.poa4us.org)

EXCELLEY ARTICLE !! WELL WRITEN AND MORE FACTUAL THAN MOST OTHER REPLIES. Of course the deed in the dark of night was intentional. Some are outraged and understandably so. I did grow weary about the comments of those "northerners" using our golf courses, swimming pools. First, surely those folk realize that while the new gate proposal will block the golf cart trail, the front gate is open to everyone. Kind of similiar to locking the back door to your home and leaving the front door standing open. Secondly, I have serious doubts that an appreciable number of "northerners " are sneaking into our pools and onto our golf courses. Soon, I expect the POA President will publish a facy filled article in their monthly bulletin. I have watched POA Elaine for several years and when she makes a statement, you can take her statements to the bank.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Then explain to me exactly what private bridge and trails are you referring to. Give us specific names and location. No broad brush off the wall undocumented wild guesses.

That will also answer Peachie's question.

I'm all ears, pray tell.

There is a path that goes from Tarrson Blvd to the Post Office. I would think that that is a Villages owned path on private property.

There is also one that connects Palermo Pl to the area that goes to the Rolling Acres Driving Range and on to the Villages wood work shop.

There is a path that connects a Turnberry Lane to the back of the Silver Lake Rec Center. I think that those are also on Villages property and are probably maintained with amenities money.

I think that those three are on private property. I think there might be more that I can't think of right now.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The VHA proposal most certainly does not address the concerns of all the affected residents.

Now if you want to debate the issue intelligently, fine, but leave out the sarcastic remarks, thank you.

In what way does the VHA proposal not address the concerns of all of the Villages residents? I think that everyone that uses that gate will be very happy if there is a gate that they can go in an out of.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

And while the VHS wastes a lot of time trying to implement the equivalent of a blockade into and out of public roads, it will bide time for Stonecrest to prepare their salvo.

You see, as I recently reported to everyone, the electric company that owns the land between Albi’s and WalMart has given their real estate division the go ahead to sell off the dirt golf cart path behind their distribution facility so that they can extricate themselves from the dreaded “liability Issues” that the cart trespassers present.

So the Stonecrest POA will purchase that land and place an identical access gate to the one that the VCCDD erects at their end. The Stonecrest gate of course will allow Stonecrest residents in and out but deny others. No Walmart for you TV!

So if TV residents think the VHA solution is fair, they should have no problem accepting my solution for Stonecrest.

As the old War song goes, “What will this solve? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Whoever owns that property between the Aldi parking lot and Wal-Mart has every right to allow whomever they want to use it and every right to not allow anyone to use it. If the Stonecrest residents want to buy it and allow only Stonecrest residents through they would certainly have that right. I would bet that if Wal-Mart got wind of what was happening, they would outbid everyone who tries to buy that dirt road. Also the Villages residents would also be able to buy it and only allow Villages residents to use it.
What you have proposed here is, of course, ludicrous. The residents of Stonecrest would have absolutely nothing to gain by taking that action. It wouldn't prevent anyone from entering Stonecrest.
The golf cart gate in question is on Villages property. No one is buying it out of spite in order to prevent people from getting to a third unrelated site.
VHA stands for VILLAGES Homeowners Association. They represent the interests of the Villages residents. They have no obligation to do anything that is beneficial to anyone else.

I would have no problem with Stonecrest making any paths on their property, leading into their property for Stonecrest residents only. And I don't think that many of my fellow Villagers would have any problem with it either.

[Steve9930]

Whoever owns that property between the Aldi parking lot and Wal-Mart has every right to allow whomever they want to use it and every right to not allow anyone to use it. If the Stomecrest residents want to buy it and allow only Stonecrest residents through they would certainly have that right. I would bet that if Wal-Mart got wind of what was happening, they would outbid everyone who tries to buy that dirt road. Also the Villages residents would also be able to buy it and only allow Villages residents to use it.
What you have proposed here is, of course, ludicrous. The residents of Stonecrest would have absolutely nothing to gain by taking that action.

Just to let you know. StoneCrest POA is NOT buying that piece of property. Wal-Mart and Duke(Progress Energy) are negotiating who will own and maintain he property. I do not know when everything will be finalized but I've been told the negotiations are doing well. That whole debacle started because someone traveling the path tried to get Progress Energy to pay for damage to their cart while traveling over the path.

[Number 6]

Then explain to me exactly what private bridge and trails are you referring to. Give us specific names and location. No broad brush off the wall undocumented wild guesses.

That will also answer Peachie's question.

I'm all ears, pray tell.

The golf cart bridge and multimodal trails. Right?

[EdV]

The last I heard Stonecrest POA is not purchasing the land behind Duke (Progress Energy) Substation. Wal-Mart and the Power Company lawyers are working out the details. At this point all I know is the parties involved are still negotiating and the deal looks promising.

Steve, I was simply attempting to get those that see nothing wrong with installing a restrictive gate at their end, to rethink their position.

The VHA wants to eliminate "unfettered" access to their side in spite of the fact that for the past ten years their residents have been "unfettering" their carts over Ron Brown's and the Electric company's land without their permission.

[EdV]

The golf cart bridge and multimodal trails. Right?

Wrong. The bridge is public and maintained by Morse's commercial companies and there are no multimodal trails in any of the retail/medical areas on the west side of 441.

[EdV]

.....Should Stonecrest provide access for cars and carts to cut through their subdivision if there is a public road on the other side of the subdivision that would make The Villagers life easier?

Peachie, more than ten years ago, the dirt path to/from OBG was engineered, graded, curbed, paved, and lighted specifically for the purpose of allowing golf carts to enter onto and exit from Paradise Dr. No such intent was ever established or provided by Stonecrest's community.

[jebartle]

Power to the People!.....Yea!:bigbow::bigbow:

[donniemac]

If this does indeed happen, I expect it will take months to get approved and finished.
From the newspaper article, it appears to be very much just a proposal at this stage. If it does go through then that would be excellent.

Sure, the whole thing may be a stunt by the VHA, or a way for the developer to quietly back down after so much negative reaction without losing face, but does that really matter?

If we get our cart path back then let's put this behind us and head off to Aldi.



I did like the other related story in the Daily Sun - "the police have noticed golf carts being driven alongside 441".

No explanation as to why golf carts have suddenly appeared there, of course.

[donniemac]

If non residents are using the golf courses or pools then starters and pool monitors are not doing their jobs. And I don't believe that to be the case. The exception is the championship courses which are owned by the developer. Nonresidents are allowed on those courses for a slightly higher fee.
linko38: This issue is not personal to me, meaning not a personal affront on anyone. But like you my wife and I like to travel by cart and admire the landscaping too. However, we paid premium dollars for that opportunity.
The Villages is getting very crowded and when all the seasonal residents and renters arrive the cart paths look like I-4. It is only going to get worse when this development is built out. So it is understandable that some residents are sensitive about this issue. I suspect there are a great number of people who live outside the villages that use the cart paths. It was told to me by employees of our golf Administration that outsiders have been sneaking on to our golf courses. Certainly you would agree this is not right or fair?

Having said that perhaps you can understand why some village residents get upset about non residents utilizing their privately and residents financed cart paths.

There is also another perspective here and that is the safety factor of golf carts traveling in and around 441.

Non residents have access to use public roads whether traveling by car or LSV and enjoy many of the amenities here.

I can tell you I had a resident from Stone Crest literally laugh in my face after telling me I was foolish to pay all that money to live in The Villages when he purchased in Stone Crest and still could get the village's lifestyle.

I support the Developer's move to build this wall and hope he does not replace it with a gate because all that is going to do is encourage some to break through the gate time and time again. I suspect the Developer had some real legitimate business reasons for his move.


Personal Best Regards:

[Peachie]

If non residents are using the golf courses or pools then starters and pool monitors are not doing their jobs. And I don't believe that to be the case. The exception is the championship courses which are owned by the developer. Nonresidents are allowed on those courses for a slightly higher fee.

Donniemac, we've owned in The Villages since 2007 and rented here several years before that. We nor our guests have EVER been carded at the pools and we frequent the pools quite often.

[Whatever]

It would seem that not only would the owner of the Private property have an issue regarding liability for an accident on his property, but too, another issue in my mind, is whether or not there could be cause for adverse possession by the county, state or political subdivision. Perhaps, the solution would be to close off the path one day a year so that adverse possession could not be claimed.

[Steve9930]

Steve, I was simply attempting to get those that see nothing wrong with installing a restrictive gate at their end, to rethink their position.

The VHA wants to eliminate "unfettered" access to their side in spite of the fact that for the past ten years their residents have been "unfettering" their carts over Ron Brown's and the Electric company's land without their permission.

Ok I understand your point. However the Villages have a right to restrict access to their property if they so wish. I'm glad they do frequent Wal-Mart and the other businesses. Mr. Brown has been very gracious to allows us to cross his property from StoneCrest for many years now and I thank him for that privilege. If the Villages are restricted from coming to Wal-Mart then there is no incentive for Wal-Mart to care whether that 200 feet of path remains open. So the wall really hurt Stonecrest in a way that Mr. Mores had no right to do. I apologize for being off topic on this one post.

[justjim]

Yep, the many lawyers of the Developer were involved in this fiasco. Lawyers and lawsuits are just a fact of life. The Developer owns a huge amount of private property within TV. It is possible for a lawyer to make you near paranoid---if you let him/her. Still, just a "little bit" of transparency would be welcomed before you affect the lives of elderly residents already living in TV.

[Steve9930]

Yep, the many lawyers of the Developer were involved in this fiasco. Lawyers and lawsuits are just a fact of life. The Developer owns a huge amount of private property within TV. It is possible for a lawyer to make you near paranoid---if you let him/her. Still, just a "little bit" of transparency would be welcomed before you affect the lives of elderly residents already living in TV.

Depending on what happens it also effects the residents of Stonecrest and Spruce creek and I'm not talking about using the entrance that has now been walled up. There is always a far reaching ripple effects when things like this are done. It also is very negative on attitudes throughout the area. No one lives in a vacuum.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread is becoming a repeat of all the posts on this other thread.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/cart-path-closing-84885/

[Number 6]

Wrong. The bridge is public and maintained by Morse's commercial companies and there are no multimodal trails in any of the retail/medical areas on the west side of 441.

The golf cart bridge is not public, in that it is not owned or maintained by a municipality. It is private property. If non-Village residents have access to the shopping areas, they have access to the multimodal paths (and rec centers).

[Steve9930]

The golf cart bridge is not public, in that it is not owned or maintained by a municipality. It is private property. If non-Village residents have access to the shopping areas, they have access to the multimodal paths (and rec centers).

I was under the impression the bridge was built because the shop owners requested it. Who built and paid for it originally and who pays for its maintenance?

[EdV]

The golf cart bridge is not public, in that it is not owned or maintained by a municipality. It is private property. If non-Village residents have access to the shopping areas, they have access to the multimodal paths (and rec centers).

My use of the word "public" is referring to the legal right to use it, not who built or maintains it. WalMart owns and maintains their parking lot but access to it is open to the public and they cannot discriminate who can use it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I think that we're talking about two different things. Public property is property that it owned and maintained by the public or the government. Public access property is property that is privately owned but open to the public.

I don't know in what category the bridge falls, but one does have to transverse private property on the eastern side to get to it. The owners of that property have the right to determine who my use that property and who may not. For example a store may have a parking lot "For Customer's Only".

My backyard is adjacent to another home's backyard. If I cut through their yard, I can get to our neighborhood pool. Otherwise, I have to go around the block to get to the pool. It would be up to the people that own that home to allow me to cut through their yard to get to the pool or not. My yard and his yard connect two public roads. That does not mean that the public has a right to access either of those roads by crossing over our properties.

[PennBF]

Let me get this straight. You have a serious problem going on with a number of residents, there are rumors of picketing, there are petitions being circulated and there are a number of potential "Legal" questions. Your answer is quick get me Janet Tutt and the VHA. Does anyone who ever spent more than 5 minutes in a Business actually think this is how it would be handled as opposed to calling in the Attorney's for discussions and potential alternatives. Who ever thought to try to convince the residents that Janet Tutt/VHA were the answers to the Developers prayers was one of the worst advisors I have heard of and are insulting the residents. If it were not so serious this would make a terrific Saturday Night Comedy Skit. It is depressing they would ever let their names be used in this manner and be a laughing stock?:a040:

[donniemac]

We too have been here since 2007 and visited for several years before that. I'm sure what you say is true but not at the priority pools which are owned by the developer. Most of the non priority pools only have monitors stop by on occassion. We have been carded by them. I believe the Paradise pool now has a full time monitor or at least someone who is there a lot. I personally have not seen a problem with non residents.

[EdV]

I think that we're talking about two different things. Public property is property that it owned and maintained by the public or the government. Public access property is property that is privately owned but open to the public.

I don't know in what category the bridge falls, but one does have to transverse private property on the eastern side to get to it. The owners of that property have the right to determine who my use that property and who may not. For example a store may have a parking lot "For Customer's Only".

My backyard is adjacent to another home's backyard. If I cut through their yard, I can get to our neighborhood pool. Otherwise, I have to go around the block to get to the pool. It would be up to the people that own that home to allow me to cut through their yard to get to the pool or not. My yard and his yard connect two public roads. That does not mean that the public has a right to access either of those roads by crossing over our properties.

Here�s a link to the info on the bridge.

Golf Cart Overpass To Be Link To Shopping - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-07-12/news/9207110484_1_building-a-bridge-golf-carts-lady-lake)

The roads in TV are open to the public because the CDD form of government is still a public municipality, not a private community. And the multi-modal paths are an integral part of that road system. And just because those paths are maintained by amenity fee does not allow it to be designated for resident use only any more than a city with a city tax can start designating certain roads for resident use only.

[Indydealmaker]

Here�s a link to the info on the bridge.

Golf Cart Overpass To Be Link To Shopping - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-07-12/news/9207110484_1_building-a-bridge-golf-carts-lady-lake)

The roads in TV are open to the public because the CDD form of government is still a public municipality, not a private community. And the multi-modal paths are an integral part of that road system. And just because those paths are maintained by amenity fee does not allow it to be designated for resident use only any more than a city with a city tax can start designating certain roads for resident use only.

Ed, I like the way you explain things.

[linko38]

Whoever owns that property between the Aldi parking lot and Wal-Mart has every right to allow whomever they want to use it and every right to not allow anyone to use it. If the Stonecrest residents want to buy it and allow only Stonecrest residents through they would certainly have that right. I would bet that if Wal-Mart got wind of what was happening, they would outbid everyone who tries to buy that dirt road. Also the Villages residents would also be able to buy it and only allow Villages residents to use it.
What you have proposed here is, of course, ludicrous. The residents of Stonecrest would have absolutely nothing to gain by taking that action. It wouldn't prevent anyone from entering Stonecrest.
The golf cart gate in question is on Villages property. No one is buying it out of spite in order to prevent people from getting to a third unrelated site.
VHA stands for VILLAGES Homeowners Association. They represent the interests of the Villages residents. They have no obligation to do anything that is beneficial to anyone else.

I would have no problem with Stonecrest making any paths on their property, leading into their property for Stonecrest residents only. And I don't think that many of my fellow Villagers would have any problem with it either.

We had a discussion in the pool today regarding the Duke Energy lot. We here in Stonecrest have been waiting months to see if Aldi's and Walmart can come to a solution. They have fenced it off once before and were flooded with angry phone calls. However the "Berlin Wall" could change everything. Mr. Brown could decide to stop allowing golf carts to pass through. Walmart could lose interest in the path and let it be closed to everyone. The lady at Bealls and other busineses have said they are hurting from lack of sales. Golf cart rental companies. Golf cart sales. Everything will be affected.

[Steve9930]

We had a discussion in the pool today regarding the Duke Energy lot. We here in Stonecrest have been waiting months to see if Aldi's and Walmart can come to a solution. They have fenced it off once before and were flooded with angry phone calls. However the "Berlin Wall" could change everything. Mr. Brown could decide to stop allowing golf carts to pass through. Walmart could lose interest in the path and let it be closed to everyone. The lady at Bealls and other busineses have said they are hurting from lack of sales. Golf cart rental companies. Golf cart sales. Everything will be affected.

When a very poor plan is implemented there are always secondary ripples that radiate out from the point of impact. This is why I got involved with these postings. Otherwise I could care if I cannot get into the villages by Golf Cart. As a Florida resident I do care about how my Florida resident neighbors are treated and in this case there are a number of them that have been treated very unfairly. I may live in Stonecrest but I'm a Florida resident also. We all do not live in a vacuum. You are very correct in your posting and a excellent point.

[JeffAVEWS]

Ed I want to join and thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. You are a pearl of wisdom in these muddy waters.

[deltaguy]

Read this morning's Daily Sun. Article from VHA president in Local. Resolution did take more than 48 hours. Pays to be patient.

Can someone take a picture of that article and post it here for people off campus? My camera battery just died.

Saw the Wall for the first time today. Looks to me like a rather obvious display of arrogance. Apologize if this word that describes all who think there is nothing wrong with the developers action is OK. The word is "Schultzitus", a word that only MASH followers would understand!

[EdV]

Thanks Indy and Jeff and others.

At this point I rest my case re selective access and will wait and see what happens.

If a gate is installed as a replacement, it'll be up to the town of Lady Lake or perhaps Lake County to intervene if they do in fact see it as I do. Time will tell.

[Markam]

Donniemac, we've owned in The Villages since 2007 and rented here several years before that. We nor our guests have EVER been carded at the pools and we frequent the pools quite often.

I have been 'carded' at my local village pool by a nice lady who tends the local rec center.

BTW, there was just a segment about this issue on Orlando CH 9.

[jebartle]

What a great guy that opened up his fence to allow carts thru.....No telling how long it will take the Developer to install gate....

[friartax]

It seems that the true heroes in this saga may be the building commissioner and the town manager who noted that no permit had been issued to build the wall and that, according to the 1998 resolution, it appears that the developer had no rights to the property, that it had belonged to the Leesburg RMC, and that the RMC had
vacated its rights to the Town for use as a golf cart path.

[rp001]

It seems that the true heroes in this saga may be the building commissioner and the town manager who noted that no permit had been issued to build the wall and that, according to the 1998 resolution, it appears that the developer had no rights to the property, that it had belonged to the Leesburg RMC, and that the RMC had
vacated its rights to the Town for use as a golf cart path.

I find this to be far more feasible that any of the "facts" distributed by the propagandists representing the builder or his henchwoman

[graciegirl]

It seems that the true heroes in this saga may be the building commissioner and the town manager who noted that no permit had been issued to build the wall and that, according to the 1998 resolution, it appears that the developer had no rights to the property, that it had belonged to the Leesburg RMC, and that the RMC had
vacated its rights to the Town for use as a golf cart path.

Where did you get this information please?

Leesburg isn't even close to that area.

What is a RMC?

[JeffAVEWS]

Read this Crew removes polarizing 'Berlin Wall,' Mayor Richards says questions remain - ************** (http://www.**************.com/berlin-wall-irks-golf-cart-drivers-on-historic-side/)

[ttown]

Regional Medical Center.
I think Lady Lake had a lot to do with the removal......not to mention the bad publicity.
Whatever the reason....YEAH!

[justjim]

I find this to be far more feasible that any of the "facts" distributed by the propagandists representing the builder or his henchwoman

Whoa! That may be a little harsh---even true. Let's be the "good winner" if there is such a thing. :gc:

[njbchbum]

Where did you get this information please?

Leesburg isn't even close to that area.

What is a RMC?

19036

gracie that is the notice [click it for a readable version] that the ************** dug up in research showing the info re the leesburg regional medical center and the town of lady lake. i believe that lrms is now a part of tri-county medical center that umbrellas a bunch of medical facilities. if you google them you can see all they encompass...google the villages tri-county medical center, inc. if you wish more info there.

[njbchbum]

It seems that the true heroes in this saga may be the building commissioner and the town manager who noted that no permit had been issued to build the wall and that, according to the 1998 resolution, it appears that the developer had no rights to the property, that it had belonged to the Leesburg RMC, and that the RMC had
vacated its rights to the Town for use as a golf cart path.

friar - the way i read that document, the town of lady lake vacated/dislcaimed/quit claimed its interest in the property for the purpose of creating the cart path.

[JeffAVEWS]

Ah Duh, I get it now, Tri-County Medical Center is the owner of the property. It was given to them by the Town of Lady Lake . I don't know if this is one of the developers shell company's, but I can't think of a reason they would put a gate there.

[njbchbum]

Ah Duh, I get it now, Tri-County Medical Center is the owner of the property. It was given to them by the Town of Lady Lake . I don't know if this is one of the developers shell company's, but I can't think of a reason they would put a gate there.

google tri-county etc, jeff. i did and i did not see any of the immediate morse family names on their org chart on the various sites i checked. i have sometimes read the morse or sumter landing corpwiki [or wikicorp] stuff and do not recall any of those names and the tri-county names in both places.

[PennBF]

Didn't I read In all of the notes, etc that the POA had hired an attorney to start looking at the wall and it's legality? Somewhere in all of the notes this was lost and somehow they lost credit for being the ones that actually took firm action to protect the residents. Typical of the POA and it's true concerns and working to protect the residents. How much of the corrective actions are the result of the POA stepping in will never be known nor will they get the credit they deserve but that is what makes the POA as valuable as it is. It does not rely on publicity but rather continues to demonstrate a true supporter of the residents. Thanks to the POA!!!:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[JeffAVEWS]

I don't know if it was the POA's actions, but I do know that I was at the building commission office at 9:15 last Monday morning to inquire if a permit was issued to put up the wall. The Commissioner had already been to the site and was researching it. I'll give him the credit.

[Steve9930]

I find this to be far more feasible that any of the "facts" distributed by the propagandists representing the builder or his henchwoman

Who gets the movie rights to this saga?

[graciegirl]

Didn't I read In all of the notes, etc that the POA had hired an attorney to start looking at the wall and it's legality? Somewhere in all of the notes this was lost and somehow they lost credit for being the ones that actually took firm action to protect the residents. Typical of the POA and it's true concerns and working to protect the residents. How much of the corrective actions are the result of the POA stepping in will never be known nor will they get the credit they deserve but that is what makes the POA as valuable as it is. It does not rely on publicity but rather continues to demonstrate a true supporter of the residents. Thanks to the POA!!!:eclipsee_gold_cup:

Last I heard the POA president didn't get back to BKCunningham.

I am not a fan of the POA.

[TraceyMooreRN]

So- a gate, not a wall? A gate to keep the outsiders "out". Without a gate key you cant get in? Hmm, guess they haven't tried to ride the tail of another cart? Anyone will be able to go out the gate--but going in--they will tailgate. Not a difficult task, or "they" will just make a way to go around the gate.
Feel sorry for that area--- regardless if it was a path maintained by whoever- it existed a source of travel to multiple businesses (without the real estate premium for the developer) but yes a need for the area residents and convenience.

[TVMayor]

�I manage the district,� Janet Tutt said. Vary well you get the all the credit.

[NoMoSno]

So- a gate, not a wall? A gate to keep the outsiders "out". Without a gate key you cant get in? Hmm, guess they haven't tried to ride the tail of another cart? Anyone will be able to go out the gate--but going in--they will tailgate. Not a difficult task, or "they" will just make a way to go around the gate.
Feel sorry for that area--- regardless if it was a path maintained by whoever- it existed a source of travel to multiple businesses (without the real estate premium for the developer) but yes a need for the area residents and convenience.

If Tri-County Medical Center is the owner, maybe they will decide a gate is not in the best interest of the community.

[DonH57]

I've tryed following this saga of the wall over the past few days and from what I've read the whole purpose of placing the wall by the developer was to keep stone crest and other outside community residents from the shopping, eating and entertainment venues in the villages by golf cart. So..... how do they plan to keep them from coming in automobiles to do the same at the squares?

[NoMoSno]

I've tryed following this saga of the wall over the past few days and from what I've read the whole purpose of placing the wall by the developer was to keep stone crest and other outside community residents from the shopping, eating and entertainment venues in the villages by golf cart. So..... how do they plan to keep them from coming in automobiles to do the same at the squares?

or LSVs and those pesky bicyclist...

[njbchbum]

If Tri-County Medical Center is the owner, maybe they will decide a gate is not in the best interest of the community.

i think this is why it is so important for villagers and residents of stonecrest to attend the 6pm lady lake town council on monday. i am sure that there is much that will be discussed about this incident. just listen to what the mayor has to say about it! he was at the dismantling of the wall today!

The 'Berlin Wall' comes down - ************** (http://www.**************.com/the-wall-comes-down-on-historic-side-of-the-villages/)