Premature death, or was it just their time to go?

[Villages PL]

Over the years, I have heard many people say something to the effect that when your time comes, well, it's just your time. Everyone has to go sometime. One woman told me that her lifestyle wouldn't make any difference because her days were numbered from when she was conceived or born. Others have said when the man upstairs wants you, he will come and get you.

How does that square with the concept of personal responsibility and free will? If a person does something that contributes to their own demise, did that person die a premature death, due to their own neglect, or was it just inevitably their time to go?

[Peachie]

Over the years, I have heard many people say something to the effect that when your time comes, well, it's just your time. Everyone has to go sometime. One woman told me that her lifestyle wouldn't make any difference because her days were numbered from when she was conceived or born. Others have said when the man upstairs wants you, he will come and get you.

How does that square with the concept of personal responsibility and free will? If a person does something that contributes to their own demise, did that person die a premature death, due to their own neglect, or was it just inevitably their time to go?

Yep, born to hang... you'll never drown.

[ilovetv]

Over the years, I have heard many people say something to the effect that when your time comes, well, it's just your time. Everyone has to go sometime. One woman told me that her lifestyle wouldn't make any difference because her days were numbered from when she was conceived or born. Others have said when the man upstairs wants you, he will come and get you.

How does that square with the concept of personal responsibility and free will? If a person does something that contributes to their own demise, did that person die a premature death do to their own neglect, or was it just inevitably their time to go?

I don't think it is one or the other, but some of both. We have responsibility to and will account for taking good care of our bodily, mental and spiritual health.

When people say "it was his time to go" or "everybody has to go sometime", I think it means we're saying we can't control the mode of bodily death we'll have......whether by earthquake, hurricane, tornado, car accident, terrorist attack, or (fortunately) sudden death in one's sleep after being in prior good health.

[graciegirl]

I think this question is a valid one, but unfortunately the answer will usually be a religious or a philosophical one rather than one that has an answer based in any scientific studies.

I think these kinds of questions are sometimes avoided being asked or being answered in a public forum because it does involve a sometimes very personal and/or treasured and private way of looking at life and death and the answer is usually part of a philosophy or religious attitude that gives certain individuals comfort. Especially those who are facing death right now.

I wonder what is the reason for this question being posed?

No. I think I know.

[jblum315]

I don't even want to get into this.

[Villages PL]

I think this question is a valid one, but unfortunately the answer will usually be a religious or a philosophical one rather than one that has an answer based in any scientific studies.

I think these kinds of questions are sometimes avoided being asked or being answered in a public forum because it does involve a sometimes very personal and/or treasured and private way of looking at life and death and the answer is usually part of a philosophy or religious attitude that gives certain individuals comfort. Especially those who are facing death right now.

I wonder what is the reason for this question being posed?


Last night I started reading an interesting book: "How Not To Die" and the author talked about this subject briefly. She works in forensic science; she's a medical examiner in the Orlando area. And she gave statistics showing that most people die prematurely. So I'm just wondering how that squares with what most people say about it just being "your time".

It shouldn't be too personal because it has to do with learning lessons in life about what causes premature death and what doesn't. In the past we talked about (Newtown CT) gun control and how that might save lives or cost lives. We talked about the potential for terrorism in the U.S. and how that might cost lives. We talked about marijuana and whether it might do more harm than good. All of the above items contain a personal element. This is not a discussion of religion, in my opinion. Just a philosophical discussion or an offering of one's opinion.

[perrjojo]

Saying it was his/her time is a way we humans deal with our pain of losing someone.

[Villages PL]

I don't think it is one or the other, but some of both. We have responsibility to and will account for taking good care of our bodily, mental and spiritual health.

When people say "it was his time to go" or "everybody has to go sometime", I think it means we're saying we can't control the mode of bodily death we'll have......whether by earthquake, hurricane, tornado, car accident, terrorist attack, or (fortunately) sudden death in one's sleep after being in prior good health.

Thanks, good answer, which shows that it's possible to handle this subject in a mature way. "....some of both." sounds good to me. In other words, we should take care of ourselves but something unforeseen can still happen. That makes sense.

[gomoho]

Good question that I can't answer, but will definitely give it some thought.

[zonerboy]

Yes this is a very personal matter and there is no real way to prove anyone's viewpoint right or wrong. But I'll stick my neck out and toss out an opinion.
I believe the universe has an intelligent creator, a divine first mover, a god who cares about us human beings. And I believe in an afterlife.
That being said, I think God created the universe to operate according to certain natural physical laws, and God does very little, if any, intervening in daily events on this planet. He does not decide where to send a hurricane. Or when an earthquake might strike. He does not sit up in heaven deciding "I think it's time for Jimmy Anderson to be run over by a car today." He just lets the world operate in accordance with the original plan. We will all die, but the exact time and circumstances are not predestined.

[Monkei]

How not to die? Is it a religious book on salvation or something?

[Topspinmo]

Sometimes Being in the wrong place at the right time (agent orange good example, being drafted put you in the wrong place at the right time one example (chemical causes cancer years down the road not to mention other problems), genetics, and sometimes it's work environment (Black lung, Chemicals/cancer, ect...) Sometimes it's what we choose to diet . Which IMO causes most pre-mature deaths. (Smoking, drinking alcohol, drugs, sugar intake which includes sweet drinks tea, soda, ect.. ( eating disorders..)

Some people are just unluckily beings raised or stuck in bad environment (industrial areas that breed cancers). Few have birth defects or genetics problems that shorten their life which IMO sad they had no choice but got what was given to them....

I for one due to medical advancements have out lived my Genetic inherited problem which 1 in 100,000 get. Some aren't so lucky. I known several people that wasn't sick or in the hospital a day of their life's and had heart attacks due to there eating/liquid/smoking excessive intakes and didn't know they had blockage, liver, or lung problems due to NOT going to the doctor and getting physicals or checkups.

Most of us can prolong life if we are willing to change or habits (yes you can say faith has something to do with it by being able to believe you can change weather it comes form higher power or within). Humans are for the most part living longer due to our ability to adapt and change our surroundings, it don't take no study to figure that out.

[eweissenbach]

Great question VP! I think that God is far too busy to concern himself with the day to day goings on of we mortals. If we are destined to die at a certain time or date, why take care of our health, or drive the speed limit, or act in a moral manner, or tolerate people we don't like - why not kill them? They apparently were destined to die at that time and we were destined to die in the gas chamber. I believe in an omnipotent power that guides the big picture of life, but believe she allows things to happen as they will for the most part. I lost a grandson at 17 last year and cannot believe my God decided to take him from us. I see God much like a parent to us all, giving us guidance and rules and suggestions on how to live our lives, but in the long run it is up to us to make the most of the time we have on earth, and sometimes bad things happen to good people.

[asianthree]

my thought is if the guy setting next to me on the plane and its his time to die....i go with him...just a thought

[gomoho]

my thought is if the guy setting next to me on the plane and its his time to die....i go with him...just a thought

Or maybe it was your time and he went with you. another thought

[quirky3]

Great question VP! I think that God is far too busy to concern himself with the day to day goings on of we mortals. If we are destined to die at a certain time or date, why take care of our health, or drive the speed limit, or act in a moral manner, or tolerate people we don't like - why not kill them? They apparently were destined to die at that time and we were destined to die in the gas chamber. I believe in an omnipotent power that guides the big picture of life, but believe she allows things to happen as they will for the most part. I lost a grandson at 17 last year and cannot believe my God decided to take him from us. I see God much like a parent to us all, giving us guidance and rules and suggestions on how to live our lives, but in the long run it is up to us to make the most of the time we have on earth, and sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Ed, I can relate to much of your views. I have changed viewpoints over the years, and may continue to do so. Right now, I am thinking that there is a creative force that put some pretty amazing things in motion, and that there are laws of energy that we have yet to discover and cooperate with. I appreciate and aspire to emulate the "best practices" that are considered the cornerstones of ethical and loving behavior. I have major doubts about an afterlife in the traditional sense, or a "personal God", as comforting as it would be to believe in those. That's about it for me.

[tucson]

You'll find your answers by reading the Bible :-)

[Villages PL]

Wow, there were many great posts that I agree with (Ed, Zonerboy, Quirky, Rc Moser, and others). Quirky mentioned a "creative force" and some would call it a higher power. Regardless of what one decides to call it, we were all given gifts and I believe we should use our gifts for the greatest good (i.e., health, happyness and prosperity in general)

I just object when people use it as a force against science or logical thinking. We were given brains to use for survival and for our betterment, not for self destruction. Many people are pro-science when it comes to almost anything, except nutrition/health science. Then, suddenly, they don't believe in science, they only believe in a higher power. I think that's strange. It's as thought they have decided to use their brain up to a certain point, and then they stop.

[graciegirl]

Wow, there were many great posts that I agree with (Ed, Zonerboy, Quirky, Rc Moser, and others). Quirky mentioned a "creative force" and some would call it a higher power. Regardless of what one decides to call it, we were all given gifts and I believe we should use our gifts for the greatest good (i.e., health, happyness and prosperity in general)

I just object when people use it as a force against science or logical thinking. We were given brains to use for survival and for our betterment, not for self destruction. Many people are pro-science when it comes to almost anything, except nutrition science. Then, suddenly, they don't believe in science, they only believe in a higher power. I think that's strange. It's as thought they have decided to use their brain up to a certain point, and then they stop.

Strange perhaps, but religion is a needed help to many.
I find it strange when people pick and choose the science they want to support.

Even IF all people ate what you promote, there would still be the need for life prolonging medications that are frequently prescribed. I think your diet is a fairly good one but missing some needed nutrients and not very palatable. People have a need for the pleasure of eating or we wouldn't have pleasure in eating hardwired into us. When the pleasure of eating is number one then there is a big problem. When someone says that they hesitate if it tastes good that behavior could well be obsessive behavior for some people.

[ilovetv]

Does anyone think the universe in its perfectly-timed and tuned motion was just an "accident" or collision of swirling rocks/matter, and not the product of a divine, all-powerful, all-knowing, incomprehensible creator?

"Tides are the periodic rise and fall of the ocean waters. They are caused by the gravitational pulls of the Moon and (to a lesser extent) Sun, as well as the rotation of the Earth.

The Sun and Moon pull on the Earth, the water, even you! But gravitational attraction depends on distance and mass. For example, you have very little mass and you're very close to the Earth, so the Sun and Moon can't just yank you off the planet. The Sun is extremely massive, but it is an average of 93 million miles (150 million km) from Earth, compared with about 238,866 miles (384,400 km) from here to the Moon. And since the Moon is nearly 400 times closer to our planet, its influence on our oceans is twice as strong as the Sun's.

The key to tides is the varying strength of the Moon's gravitational pull on different parts of the globe. The Moon pulls most on the water nearest to it, creating a high tide bulge of water. On the opposite side of the planet, about 7,926 miles (1,2760 km) away, the Moon's pull is much weaker and the water is left to form another high tide bulge. Low tides are found halfway between the highs. The rotating Earth carries us through these regions of high and low water.

Within a small body of liquid, such as a pond or bowl of soup, there are no tides because the whole body of water is the same distance from the Moon, feeling an equal gravitational pull.

The timing of tides is determined by the Earth's rotation and the Moon's orbit around the Earth. As the Earth rotates once about its axis in 24 hours, the Moon is moving 1/30th of the way around in its orbit. It takes a given location on Earth about 50 minutes to "catch up with" the orbiting Moon, so a particular tide returns in approximately 24 hours and 50 minutes."

Oceanography (http://www.onr.navy.mil/Focus/ocean/motion/tides1.htm)

[Villages PL]

Strange perhaps, but religion is a needed help to many.

No one doubts that. My point is: Keep religion to yourself when there's a logical discussion about health and nutrition. Science will leave you alone if you leave science alone.

I find it strange when people pick and choose the science they want to support.

That's the way science works. If you support something you may be asked to defend it with factual information.

Even IF all people ate what you promote, there would still be the need for life prolonging medications that are frequently prescribed.

Even IF people took all the medications that you promote there would still be the need for life prolonging healthy foods that are frequently recommended.


I think your diet is a fairly good one but missing some needed nutrients and not very palatable.

I think your diet is fairly palatable but missing fiber and nutrients. Therefore, you have to make up for it by taking drugs.

People have a need for the pleasure of eating or we wouldn't have pleasure in eating hardwired into us. When the pleasure of eating is number one then there is a big problem. When someone says that they hesitate if it tastes good that behavior could well be obsessive behavior for some people.

When eating becomes ALL about pleasure, it shows up in the need to take drugs.

[Villages PL]

Does anyone think the universe in its perfectly-timed and tuned motion was just an "accident" or collision of swirling rocks/matter, and not the product of a divine, all-powerful, all-knowing, incomprehensible creator?

If that's true, then we should also believe that the end of life on earth has also been planned by "a divine, all-powerful, all-knowing, incomprehensible creator". The sun will go through the "red giant stage" in about 5 billion years.

[rubicon]

I had an aunt who was about as subtle as a train wreck. so when someone said "well it was God's will"she spoke up and said so if it is God's will that a pilot's time has come how come He's taking 230 other people with this pilot.

I leave religion out of this discussion because the above stated true story illustrates problems.

The paper carried an article about the oldest man alive 123 if you can believe his documents. He said he did nothing special. conversely I noticed Dr. Melanson died he was 52

I suspect that people who try and live healthy lives may be able to extent their morbiity

[Easyrider]

You'll find your answers by reading the Bible :-)

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:


Very well said.......some of this sounds like the cheese has maybe already slidden off the cracker....

[DougB]

I had an aunt who was about as subtle as a train wreck. so when someone said "well it was God's will"she spoke up and said so if it is God's will that a pilot's time has come how come He's taking 230 other people with this pilot......

I guess it was God's will that the time had come for 231 people.

[Easyrider]

[QUOTE=Villages PL;730729]If that's true, then we should also believe that the end of life on earth has also been planned by "a divine, all-powerful, all-knowing, creator".







I do fully believe and know God will do this a second time, not by a flood, but by fire the second time.....


Genesis 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


Genesis 6:13
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


Genesis 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.


Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[tucson]

I pray God will open the eyes and hearts of His divine wisdom and knowledge...:-)

[Parker]

We can't possibly know. We can think we know. I hope someday we will all know.

[Golfingnut]

I know but no one believes me.

[asianthree]

I guess it was God's will that the time had come for 231 people.

group rate

[jblum315]

I had an aunt who was about as subtle as a train wreck. so when someone said "well it was God's will"she spoke up and said so if it is God's will that a pilot's time has come how come He's taking 230 other people with this pilot.

I leave religion out of this discussion because the above stated true story illustrates problems.

The paper carried an article about the oldest man alive 123 if you can believe his documents. He said he did nothing special. conversely I noticed Dr. Melanson died he was 52

I suspect that people who try and live healthy lives may be able to extent their morbiity

"morbidity" means disease or ill health. Don't you mean mortality?

[Campbell soup]

I get up every morning and just do the best I can. I have enough common sense to know you only have one body so take care of it the best you can.

[graciegirl]

"morbidity" means disease or ill health. Don't you mean mortality?

Jeanne, you remind me of Boomer. I wonder is she is here somewhere posting? I know it isn't JBlum but Boomer was an English major. AND so funny. And from Cincinnati.

I wonder if she ever moved here to TV?

[Villages PL]

The paper carried an article about the oldest man alive 123 if you can believe his documents. He said he did nothing special.

What documents? He hasn't shown any documents. There have been enough frauds in the past that no one should waste any time speculating as to why he lived so long. He might be a really old looking 95 year old.

[graciegirl]

When are we going to meet you at Crispers, Villages Pl? We want to see how healthy and trim you are. You could be funnin' us and be fifteen years old and weigh 300 pounds and eat Snickers.

Come and meet all the folks you talk to so much at the next Crispers. When will you return Barefoot? October?

You can bring your ice water and fruit Villages Pl. Most of us don't eat lunch there just drink something tall and cold.

[Villages PL]

When are we going to meet you at Crispers, Villages Pl? We want to see how healthy and trim you are. You could be funnin' us and be fifteen years old and weigh 300 pounds and eat Snickers.

Come and meet all the folks you talk to so much at the next Crispers. When will you return Barefoot? October?

You can bring your ice water and fruit Villages Pl. Most of us don't eat lunch there just drink something tall and cold.

October sounds good, but I won't return Barefoot. :popcorn:

[graciegirl]

October sounds good, but I won't return Barefoot. :popcorn:
o.i.c.;)

[quirky3]

October sounds good, but I won't return Barefoot. :popcorn:

You made me laugh out loud at that one, VPL!!

[Barefoot]

When are we going to meet you at Crispers, Villages Pl? We want to see how healthy and trim you are. You could be funnin' us and be fifteen years old and weigh 300 pounds and eat Snickers.

Come and meet all the folks you talk to so much at the next Crispers. When will you return Barefoot? October?

You can bring your ice water and fruit Villages Pl. Most of us don't eat lunch there just drink something tall and cold.

GG, we were planning to return in November ... but we'll make it a month earlier if Villages PL is going to make an October debut! Barefoot or not, I'd love to meet him!

[Barefoot]

The paper carried an article about the oldest man alive 123 if you can believe his documents. He said he did nothing special.

What documents? He hasn't shown any documents. There have been enough frauds in the past that no one should waste any time speculating as to why he lived so long. He might be a really old looking 95 year old.

Whether he's 123 or an old-looking 95, I think we can agree that he has good genes. And I hope he is enjoying a happy life. Sometimes I wonder how satisfying life would be if you outlive your spouse and siblings and friends.

[DougB]

Thanks, good answer, which shows that it's possible to handle this subject in a mature way. "....some of both." sounds good to me. In other words, we should take care of ourselves but something unforeseen can still happen. That makes sense.

My wife and I took out life insurance policies on each other -- so now it's just a waiting game.

[graciegirl]

My wife and I took out life insurance policies on each other -- so now it's just a waiting game.

You ain't right.:1rotfl::clap2: