3 Boys Kill Man in Oklahoma "Thrill Kill??"

[PaPaLarry]

I was shocked to read the news of 3 boys, shooting to death, a boy, because they had "nothing to do"??? What's going on here with the thought process of our youth?? Such a shame.:cry::(:mad:

[zonerboy]

We need an emergency government program to provide all these poor teenage boys with brand new X Box 360's so that they won't be forced to kill people because they have nothing else to do.

[billethkid]

all one needs to do is really look with intent at the amount of violence, murder, rape, dismemberment and assorted gore that the youth of America has access to from onfancy. Television has lost whatever morals it had and follows very closely the movie industry which is mostly about killing people one way or another.

Then there is the media that glorifies these acts with the coverage....and the judicial system which seems to make the perpetrator become the victim. Then there is the fact that being in prison is better than where some of the killers reside with everything free and somebody always seeming to make a case how we must make their lives more liveable.

Add to all the above the not in my back yard syndrome, or it does not affect me maliase and another level of permissiveness evolves.

There is no mystery what so ever of the behavior of too much of our society.

btk

[Happinow]

This is a horrific crime. U fortunately, it's a sign of the times. Prayers for all involved.

[graciegirl]

I still say it has a lot to do with a child's own parents not being present as much as they used to be during the formative years. Now this is extending into another generation. I am not saying to give up one's entire life, but just the first five formative years. Young people are setting aside four years for college, five years for a child would be good, either the mom or the dad, either one to be with that child during it's first five years full time.. They are the ONLY ones who have the child's best interests instinctively wired into them. When you are not with a child as much as we used to be, we become more like grandparents or treasured aunts and can't see the child's faults, or don't want to see them. Straightening out the little issues early on and making them important issues gives children a moral compass. It doesn't always work but it mostly does.

[ajbrown]

I feel a sense of outrage. Outrage to the point I want the three killers to disappear in the middle of the night, I do not want talk of rehabilitation, I do not want to read about their trial, I just want them gone. My faith teaches me to forgive, but I do not have the strength for that.

I feel a sense of helplessness as I have no solution to a problem like this.

And MOST of all I feel a sense of great sorrow for the family who sent their son to the US to chase his dreams and is now gone…..

[graciegirl]

Here is one that is a little better I think.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57599302/aussie-baseball-player-killed-by-bored-okla-teens-police-say/

[manaboutown]

Looks like a hate crime to me. They deserve the death penalty. Such a cowardly brutal act!

[zonerboy]

Dear Gracie,
You are correct as usual. The family unit of today is just not what it was in our day. And so we have youth who grew up with no good parental examples to follow, who seem to be totally lacking in a proper sense of values. Can we blame them for acting the way they do?
I place a good part of the blame for this situation on poorly conceived social welfare programs which try to the "daddy" in poor families and thus enable the real daddies to abdicate their parental responsibilities. You cannot replace a loving parent-child relationship with a welfare check and expect good results.
And now we pay the price.
Sad indeed.

[ugotme]

they were just exercising their second amendment rights, and standing their ground.

Not even funny !

Actually RIDICULOUS !

[LI SNOWBIRD]

Not even funny !

Actually RIDICULOUS !

here,here

[billethkid]

they were just exercising their second amendment rights, and standing their ground.

not only not funny and exhibits the kind of :censored: attitude the punks have.....

btk

[Moderator]

Please stay on point and refrain from inflammatory commentary.

Moderator

[ilovetv]

I would be very surprised if these killers had not been in trouble with the law before.

"One of the suspect's mothers told CBS affiliate KWTV in Oklahoma City her son and his friends were in a "wannabe gang." Police told KWTV the suspects may have killed an animal prior to shooting Lane, and that they planned on killing more people." (from link Gracie posted)

Besides kids being left alone to raise themselves, and allowed to roam the streets at all hours like dog packs, teachers' hands are tied with their mouths taped shut when it comes to the need to tell parents what they see going wrong with their kid's buddies who have no rules nor boundaries once they leave the school grounds, and who are displaying deviant behavior early in grade school.

Political correctness has eroded measures as simple as a curfew, once again terming crime prevention as "racial profiling"....but that's not what these mayors reported 18 years ago....

"....Eighty-eight percent (236) of the cities said that curfew enforcement helps to make streets safer for residents. The officials commented that there is less traffic late at night; residents feel safer; it is easier to find runaways; it is harder for criminals to hide from the police during curfew hours because there are fewer people to blend in with; graffiti and vandalism are reduced; and parents are helped to feel responsible...."

A Status Report on Youth Curfews in America's Cities: A 347-City Survey (http://www.usmayors.org/publications/curfew.htm)

"Essentially what’s happening is it’s targeting black kids," says Males. "Let’s just be blunt here."

The Trouble With Youth Curfews - Nate Berg - The Atlantic Cities (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2011/10/trouble-youth-curfews/350/)

[chachacha]

this brings to mind an event which happened in africa when hunters killed off all the adult male elephants for their ivory tusks...in short order the young males became unruly and went into villages on rampages, killing people....what to do? at great expense they had 2 adult males helicoptered in from a nearby preserve...the adult males within six months had the unruly youngsters in line and peace was restored. this should be an advertisement for 'Father's Day' and emphasis must be placed on the importance of fathers to take responsibility for their children. it seems the human animal works the same way.

[Bucco]

Not even funny !

Actually RIDICULOUS !


I reported that post.....this is the type of simple inflamatory post that folks complain about

[graciegirl]

This is so awful, I don't know where to begin!!! Where is the 24 hour news coverage and the experts weighing in and the people talking, talking , talking about this? Why was he targeted? Why did this happen? Where are the parents of these kids? What the hell is happening?????

A man was gunned down because kids were bored and had a gun???

I am beginning to change my mind about gun ownership. I have never owned a gun but I am rethinking that. But not about people working so they won't be BORED.

What kind of world is this becoming?

[billethkid]

given the type individuals they are with no regard for human life, I believe if they did not have a gun they would have killed another way.

btk

[Bucco]

This is so awful, I don't know where to begin!!! Where is the 24 hour news coverage and the experts weighing in and the people talking, talking , talking about this? Why was he targeted? Why did this happen? Where are the parents of these kids? What the hell is happening?????

A man was gunned down because kids were bored and had a gun???

I am beginning to change my mind about gun ownership. But not about people working so they won't be BORED.

What kind of world is this becoming?

I wish it were a new trend, but it is not and your concern about the media is well founded.

This death and the motivation behind it deserves as much scrutiny as other cases but this death will not get it. It will be a minor story for a day or so and then go away. Do not be swayed by outrage because mostly it is politically motivated.

This deserves as much discussion as recent big news killings but it will not even touch it...no political gain to be had.

[Golfingnut]

given the type individuals they are with no regard for human life, I believe if they did not have a gun they would have killed another way.

btk

I doubt that. Take away the gun and you take away their courage.

[graciegirl]

I doubt that. Take away the gun and you take away their courage.


Those crummy low life losers! There were three of them and one of him and if they had wanted to knock him off the bicycle and beat the crap outa him and killed him they could have.

They were bored and wanted to KILL someone.

My kids were working during the summer when they were that age and they couldn't have afforded a gun for danged sure.

I want to see their parents and hear their excuses.

[Golfingnut]

Those crummy low life losers! There were three of them and one of him and if they had wanted to knock him off the bicycle and beat the crap outa him and killed him they could have.

They were bored and wanted to KILL someone.

My kids were working during the summer when they were that age and they couldn't have afforded a gun for danged sure.

I want to see their parents and hear their excuses.

These scum bags will multiply until drastic measures are taken. If they would have been stopped and frisked this could have been avoided.

[Bavarian]

I still say it has a lot to do with a child's own parents not being present as much as they used to be during the formative years. Now this is extending into another generation. I am not saying to give up one's entire life, but just the first five formative years. Young people are setting aside four years for college, five years for a child would be good, either the mom or the dad, either one to be with that child during it's first five years full time.. They are the ONLY ones who have the child's best interests instinctively wired into them. When you are not with a child as much as we used to be, we become more like grandparents or treasured aunts and can't see the child's faults, or don't want to see them. Straightening out the little issues early on and making them important issues gives children a moral compass. It doesn't always work but it mostly does.

Dittos

[ilovetv]

These scum bags will multiply until drastic measures are taken. If they would have been stopped and frisked this could have been avoided.

And right now, the Stop & Frisk program police have been allowed to use effectively in NYC to take it back from the panhandlers and muggers is being decried as "racial profiling". But if it's being done in the neighborhoods where "wannabe gang" members or literal gang members most likely live and hang out, it's a "neighborhood" profiling and "behavioral" profiling.

I'm for "behavioral profiling"!!

[dillywho]

I have the same solution for these guys and for gang-bangers:

You like to kill? Fine. You're bored? Fine. We can handle that.

You will be on the next ship out to the front fighting lines. Just a gun and zero training; you seem to know how to kill, anyway. Let's see how you handle it with someone just a little tougher than you and just as hell-bent on killing someone/something.:mad::mad::mad:

[dillywho]

I still say it has a lot to do with a child's own parents not being present as much as they used to be during the formative years. Now this is extending into another generation. I am not saying to give up one's entire life, but just the first five formative years. Young people are setting aside four years for college, five years for a child would be good, either the mom or the dad, either one to be with that child during it's first five years full time.. They are the ONLY ones who have the child's best interests instinctively wired into them. When you are not with a child as much as we used to be, we become more like grandparents or treasured aunts and can't see the child's faults, or don't want to see them. Straightening out the little issues early on and making them important issues gives children a moral compass. It doesn't always work but it mostly does.

I did not have the privilege of being a stay-at-home mom, but I have two sons that grew up to be outstanding adults. I was an integral part of their lives (unlike dad) and my word was LAW....not even up for discussion. My youngest son's friend once remarked to him, "Aw, Shannon, your mom's not going to do anything." to which he replied, "You don't know my mom and I'm not gonna try her!" I was never a parent to say, "Oh, my child wouldn't do that." Kids will do what they think/know they can get by with. I listened to their side, as well. When they were wrong, they were wrong and when they were right, they were right. They learned early on that lying would make things a whole lot worse (besides, they were really bad at it). They also attended church, were involved in scouting, the Y, and an organization known as Kids, Inc. which involved them in supervised sports events.

Kids today have zero discipline, have no concept of the word "no", and are allowed to do "their own thing". Excuse me, but that is why the good Lord gives us parents....to teach and guide. Time-out is a total joke. What ever happened to plain ole hard work and the proverbial woodshed? If my boys were in trouble in school.....they were in more when they got home. They had boundaries and they had chores. Believe me, I could find plenty to keep them from being "bored". They both had jobs in high school, too.

Were my kids perfect? Not by a long shot, but they were never involved in anything remotely serious, either. Both are now retired from the Navy. working on second careers. They both told me that the ones who couldn't adjust to service life were the ones who never had to do anything at home and had very little, if any, discipline. One made the remark right after going off to basic, "Now, I understand why we were told only once to do or not do something."

[Bucco]

I have the same solution for these guys and for gang-bangers:

You like to kill? Fine. You're bored? Fine. We can handle that.

You will be on the next ship out to the front fighting lines. Just a gun and zero training; you seem to know how to kill, anyway. Let's see how you handle it with someone just a little tougher than you and just as hell-bent on killing someone/something.:mad::mad::mad:

What an outstanding idea !!

[Bucco]

they were just exercising their second amendment rights, and standing their ground.


Please explain what this post has to do with the thread, the message board or the subject at hand ????

[TrudyM]

As a result of this Australia looked at the crime statistics for the US and has put us on the don't travel list for it's people. They say you are 15 times more likely to be shot in the US than in Australia. Can that be true? When my husband worked on a defense project I was surprised at the countries on the list we were not allowed to visit, we could go to China but not to Greece for instance. Never thought the US would be on that list.

[donb9006]

I still say it has a lot to do with a child's own parents not being present as much as they used to be during the formative years. Now this is extending into another generation. I am not saying to give up one's entire life, but just the first five formative years. Young people are setting aside four years for college, five years for a child would be good, either the mom or the dad, either one to be with that child during it's first five years full time.. They are the ONLY ones who have the child's best interests instinctively wired into them. When you are not with a child as much as we used to be, we become more like grandparents or treasured aunts and can't see the child's faults, or don't want to see them. Straightening out the little issues early on and making them important issues gives children a moral compass. It doesn't always work but it mostly does.

This is what happens when you defer your child raising responsibilities to "Rosa", the possibly illegal, who barely speaks english, has an 8th grade education, and a culture alien to yours.

Just saying...

[gomoho]

I doubt that. Take away the gun and you take away their courage.

Take away their gun and they'll just go buy another one. If only it were that easy. Have to change their minds - not the gun laws.

[Golf View]

Looks like a hate crime to me. They deserve the death penalty. Such a cowardly brutal act!

It's time to dust off OLD SPARKY & get rid of these kinds of people. Killing for fun? Where doe this kind of thinking come from?

[JP]

Looks like it could be a hate crime to me too.
Where is the outrage?
Where's Al Sharpton.
That poor kid looked like he could have been my son.
What a waste of a life by a bunch of losers.
I hope they get the death penalty.

[TexaninVA]

I have the same solution for these guys and for gang-bangers:

You like to kill? Fine. You're bored? Fine. We can handle that.

You will be on the next ship out to the front fighting lines. Just a gun and zero training; you seem to know how to kill, anyway. Let's see how you handle it with someone just a little tougher than you and just as hell-bent on killing someone/something.:mad::mad::mad:

This is a most excellent suggestion ... and would quickly fix the problem

[PaPaLarry]

I did not have the privilege of being a stay-at-home mom, but I have two sons that grew up to be outstanding adults. I was an integral part of their lives (unlike dad) and my word was LAW....not even up for discussion. My youngest son's friend once remarked to him, "Aw, Shannon, your mom's not going to do anything." to which he replied, "You don't know my mom and I'm not gonna try her!" I was never a parent to say, "Oh, my child wouldn't do that." Kids will do what they think/know they can get by with. I listened to their side, as well. When they were wrong, they were wrong and when they were right, they were right. They learned early on that lying would make things a whole lot worse (besides, they were really bad at it). They also attended church, were involved in scouting, the Y, and an organization known as Kids, Inc. which involved them in supervised sports events.

Kids today have zero discipline, have no concept of the word "no", and are allowed to do "their own thing". Excuse me, but that is why the good Lord gives us parents....to teach and guide. Time-out is a total joke. What ever happened to plain ole hard work and the proverbial woodshed? If my boys were in trouble in school.....they were in more when they got home. They had boundaries and they had chores. Believe me, I could find plenty to keep them from being "bored". They both had jobs in high school, too.

Were my kids perfect? Not by a long shot, but they were never involved in anything remotely serious, either. Both are now retired from the Navy. working on second careers. They both told me that the ones who couldn't adjust to service life were the ones who never had to do anything at home and had very little, if any, discipline. One made the remark right after going off to basic, "Now, I understand why we were told only once to do or not do something."
So very well said!!!!!!! Family structure is so important.

[twinklesweep]

I doubt that. Take away the gun and you take away their courage.

I agree. The gun is the symbol of power and strength, not these snot-nosed young kids!


Take away their gun and they'll just go buy another one. If only it were that easy. Have to change their minds - not the gun laws.

While I agree with the thought of changing their minds, I am stunned (after hearing time and again that "guns don't kill; people kill") to learn that it is that easy for children to "just go out and buy another one" [emphasis above mine, not part of original post]. Pardon my outraged sarcasm when I say by all means "don't change the gun laws" that allow them to do this....

I don't blame Australia at all for calling the U.S. on its appalling level of violence. There go tourism dollars that we cannot afford to lose!

[Mikeod]

I have the same solution for these guys and for gang-bangers:

You like to kill? Fine. You're bored? Fine. We can handle that.

You will be on the next ship out to the front fighting lines. Just a gun and zero training; you seem to know how to kill, anyway. Let's see how you handle it with someone just a little tougher than you and just as hell-bent on killing someone/something.:mad::mad::mad:

Umm, no. They don't deserve to even think about wearing the same uniform I wore. I wouldn't trust them to be anywhere around our troops with a loaded weapon. Now, if you want to use them as a human shield, or to search for land mines or IEDs, unarmed, that's OK.

[gomoho]

[QUOTE=twinklesweep;731138]I agree. The gun is the symbol of power and strength, not these snot-nosed young kids!

While I agree with the thought of changing their minds, I am stunned (after hearing time and again that "guns don't kill; people kill") to learn that it is that easy for children to "just go out and buy another one" [emphasis above mine, not part of original post]. Pardon my outraged sarcasm when I say by all means "don't change the gun laws" that allow them to do this....

Do you really believe they obtained this gun in a legal manner??? Take their gun away and they'll go buy another in the black market. And these are not children we are talking about - they are wannabe gangsta thugs.

[Taltarzac725]

What Makes Serial Killers Tick? — Psychopaths? — Crime Library on truTV.com (http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/tick/psych_6.html)

[Bucco]

I suppose i will be considered out of line again, but this thread was not about gun control but thugs who killed for fun. Once again, depending on certain things they are somehow to be portrayed in a light that is a bit better as we ignore their vicious barbaric action and turn to gun control.

These punks were killers...the weapon they chose is not the subject and somehow I see this going in the direction, again, of "changing the subject" to fit an agenda.

[graciegirl]

What Makes Serial Killers Tick? — Psychopaths? — Crime Library on truTV.com (http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/tick/psych_6.html)

All THREE of them? Not statistically likely.

I say if you want to see something awful just look at the tape of those kids beating the hell out of another kid on the school bus recently while the driver stood by.

It was the first time I had witnessed such a beating. The power and vengeance and hatred. The pummeling and the kicking and the sheer strength by those young men. They could have killed the victim, any one of them with their bare hands and feet in shoes. THAT WAS horrible to me and very eye opening. A human brain can't survive that kind of repeated pummeling.

It makes me think of another beating recently in the news.

Nothing is simple. Nothing.

I will think again before using the old phrase beat the hell out of....Nothing like that ever occurred in my world.

[Taltarzac725]

All THREE of them? Not statistically likely.

I say if you want to see something awful just look at the tape of those kids beating the hell out of another kid on the school bus recently while the driver stood by.

It was the first time I had witnessed such a beating. The power and vengeance and hatred. The pummeling and the kicking and the sheer strength by those young men. They could have killed the victim, any one of them with their bare hands and feet in shoes. THAT WAS horrible to me and very eye opening. A human brain can't survive that kind of repeated pummeling.

It makes me think of another beating recently in the news.

Nothing is simple. Nothing.

I will think again before using the old phrase beat the hell out of....Nothing like that ever occurred in my world.

Psychopaths/sociopaths are diagnosed by their purposeless and irrational antisocial behavior, lack of conscience, and emotional vacuity. They are thrill seekers, literally fearless. Punishment rarely works, because they are impulsive by nature and fearless of the consequences. Incapable of having meaningful relationships, they view others as fodder for manipulation and exploitation. According to one psychological surveying tool (DSM IIIR) between 3-5% of men are sociopaths; less than 1% of female population are sociopaths.

I was linking the article in the hope people would actually read it. There could have been a leader in this group who is a sociopath and the others just went along. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/tick/psych_6.html

This was very telling in factors that lead to the possible development of a sociopath--


The following are environmental factors, psychiatrists say, which create a sociopath:
•
Studies show that 60% of psychopathic individuals had lost a parent;

•
Child is deprived of love or nurturing; parents are detached or absent;

•
Inconsistent discipline: if father is stern and mother is soft, child learns to hate authority and manipulate mother;

•
Hypocritical parents who privately belittle the child while publicly presenting the image of a "happy family".

[Bucco]

"Duncan, Oklahoma: Chris Lane was murdered as a part of a gang initiation, according to James Johnson, the father of a boy who was also allegedly targeted by the three youths accused of killing Mr Lane."


Read more: Chris Lane shooting a gang initiation, says father who called police (http://www.smh.com.au/world/chris-lane-shooting-a-gang-initiation-says-father-who-called-police-20130822-2sdud.html#ixzz2chagK9JB)

"The three Oklahoma teens charged with killing a jogger because they were bored were quickly nabbed because they allegedly threatened to murder a 17-year-old who wouldn’t join their offshoot of the Crips gang."


“Bored” teen killers were arrested after threatening to murder 17-year-old, cops say - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/fiends_blood_lust_jQ8uuEbZP3xHA4wGHukpaL)

[dillywho]

Umm, no. They don't deserve to even think about wearing the same uniform I wore. I wouldn't trust them to be anywhere around our troops with a loaded weapon. Now, if you want to use them as a human shield, or to search for land mines or IEDs, unarmed, that's OK.

Nope, no military uniforms. Just on the front to face the enemy...not near our troops. Leave them to their bad-guy tats, all over piercings, and baggy pants...their uniforms.

[Bucco]

More on this case...note the alluding to Zimmerman....I am sure Mr Sharpton will talk on this today...

"It comes as Edwards, who has been charged with first-degree murder, posted racist tweets saying he hated white people in the months before the shooting.

Edwards posted statements on his Twitter feed including a comment on April 29 where he tweeted "90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM".

Edwards also weighed when George Zimmerman was acquitted over the death of Trayvon Martin.

"Ayeee I knocced out 5 woods since Zimmerman court!:) lol sh*t ima keep sleepin sh*t! #ayeeee."

"Woods" is derogatory slang for white people. The feed also contains tweets glorifying violence, guns and gangs."

No Cookies | The Advertiser (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/chilling-911-call-details-final-moments-of-melbourne-baseballer-chris-lane8217s-life/story-fnii5smq-1226700172461)

[Bucco]

Looks like it could be a hate crime to me too.
Where is the outrage?
Where's Al Sharpton.
That poor kid looked like he could have been my son.
What a waste of a life by a bunch of losers.
I hope they get the death penalty.

Not much outrage at all. Hard to find coverage on MSNBC site, but was a hate crime based on the tweets on race by the killers.

Also, while Australia is a bit upset...we do not appear to be so...

"Josh Earnest, principal deputy White House press secretary, said he was not familiar with the murder of Australian jogger Chris Lane during Wednesday’s White House briefing.

When asked by Fox News chief White House correspondent Ed Henry about the Chris Lane case, Earnest responded, “I’m not familiar with it, actually.”

Read more: White House spokesman 'not familiar with' Chris Lane murder | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/21/white-house-spokesman-not-familiar-with-chris-lane-murder/#ixzz2chjO8KZo)

[ugotme]

Umm, no. They don't deserve to even think about wearing the same uniform I wore. I wouldn't trust them to be anywhere around our troops with a loaded weapon. Now, if you want to use them as a human shield, or to search for land mines or IEDs, unarmed, that's OK.


YES - an even better suggestion !!!!

:BigApplause:

[bimmertl]

Opinion: Negligent parents, lawbreaking kids - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/opinion/granderson-criminal-kids-responsibility/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7)

[Villageswimmer]

Not much outrage at all. Hard to find coverage on MSNBC site, but was a hate crime based on the tweets on race by the killers.

Also, while Australia is a bit upset...we do not appear to be so...

"Josh Earnest, principal deputy White House press secretary, said he was not familiar with the murder of Australian jogger Chris Lane during Wednesday’s White House briefing.

When asked by Fox News chief White House correspondent Ed Henry about the Chris Lane case, Earnest responded, “I’m not familiar with it, actually.”

Read more: White House spokesman 'not familiar with' Chris Lane murder | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/21/white-house-spokesman-not-familiar-with-chris-lane-murder/#ixzz2chjO8KZo)


What an INSULT to our Australian friends. Just horrible.

[Tracy1581]

WE live IN a society where we are removing the "traditional family" (mom and Dad) we are removing God , we have increased tv and movie violence, increased video games, glorify rappers that speak filth, and don't even have sports or other hero types for the kids to appreciate. We've become an "entitlement society" and this is what it reaps.

Sad but true. And where are the leaders now?? NO outrage?? This wasn't even a self defense case, just a all out "thrill - kill " Makes you wonder why they aren't speaking out now??

How can a thrill kill case NOT cause the OUTRAGE that a self defense case did? Is this really acceptable to society now? Should we continue to bury our heads in the sand and Pretend it did not happen?

[gomoho]

So the chief of police in Duncan Oklahoma has said in regards to the racial tweets:

"However, Duncan, Okla., police chief Dan Ford told the website that he does not believe Edwards' actions warrant a hate crime charge.

“I don’t think there’d be any further charge,” Ford said. “I’m not discounting the stuff that’s on there, but they do that for shock and effect.”

I have called his office to inquire how he determined this was not a hate crime, but done for shock and effect. His secretary was quite surprised by my call which surprised me because I assumed others would be as outraged as I am. I am now wondering exactly what does warrant a hate crime charge. Saying you hate 90% of white people and want to kill some woods sounds pretty serious to me.

If you wish to call and make an inquiry his name is Chief Ford and the number for the police department is 580 255-2112.

[janmcn]

[QUOTE=gomoho;731453]So the chief of police in Duncan Oklahoma has said in regards to the racial tweets:

"However, Duncan, Okla., police chief Dan Ford told the website that he does not believe Edwards' actions warrant a hate crime charge.

“I don’t think there’d be any further charge,” Ford said. “I’m not discounting the stuff that’s on there, but they do that for shock and effect.”

I have called his office to inquire how he determined this was not a hate crime, but done for shock and effect. His secretary was quite surprised by my call which surprised me because I assumed others would be as outraged as I am. I am now wondering exactly what does warrant a hate crime charge. Saying you hate 90% of white people and want to kill some woods sounds pretty serious to me.





Good for you for showing your outrage and questioning the local officials. Another poster wants to know where is the leadership? Good question. I have not seen Gov Mary Fallon (R-OK), or Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) or Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) or the local US Congressman on TV at all addressing this horrific crime.

[graciegirl]

...

[wendyquat]

This is so awful, I don't know where to begin!!! Where is the 24 hour news coverage and the experts weighing in and the people talking, talking , talking about this? Why was he targeted? Why did this happen? Where are the parents of these kids? What the hell is happening?????

A man was gunned down because kids were bored and had a gun???

I am beginning to change my mind about gun ownership. I have never owned a gun but I am rethinking that. But not about people working so they won't be BORED.

What kind of world is this becoming?

The problem with that thinking is those boys did not have the guns legally! You can't get every gun off the streets. The criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get guns. They care little about registration, or any other gun restrictions. Thank you but I choose to exercise my right to bear arms so that I at least have something to defend myself against those criminals! Unfortunately, I share your concern about "what this world is coming to"! I do not want to be defenseless when it hits the fan! :crap2:

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=gomoho;731453]So the chief of police in Duncan Oklahoma has said in regards to the racial tweets:

"However, Duncan, Okla., police chief Dan Ford told the website that he does not believe Edwards' actions warrant a hate crime charge.

“I don’t think there’d be any further charge,” Ford said. “I’m not discounting the stuff that’s on there, but they do that for shock and effect.”

I have called his office to inquire how he determined this was not a hate crime, but done for shock and effect. His secretary was quite surprised by my call which surprised me because I assumed others would be as outraged as I am. I am now wondering exactly what does warrant a hate crime charge. Saying you hate 90% of white people and want to kill some woods sounds pretty serious to me.





Good for you for showing your outrage and questioning the local officials. Another poster wants to know where is the leadership? Good question. I have not seen Gov Mary Fallon (R-OK), or Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) or Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) or the local US Congressman on TV at all addressing this horrific crime.

I am not sure this belongs in the political forum. I realize some pundits are making it that way, but that is only because of the insane issue that was made in the Zimmerman case.

This is hate killing for sure but allow the law to work...do what it does in the time it takes.

I am very disappointed the the LOUDNESS, AND ANGER is subdued and non existence in many of the corners that called all of us racists who would not take the streets and march. I cannot imagine those who came on here and said they marched for the other victim ever even considering driving to Sumter Landing for this man. No political gain I suppose

[gomoho]

I guess it's a one way street and we are headed the wrong way. It's so sad to see what is happening to our country.

[Bucco]

I guess it's a one way street and we are headed the wrong way. It's so sad to see what is happening to our country.

I have felt for a long time that the saturation of cable "news" channels, who cannot possibly fill their time with "news" is a problem. Today we added another, Al Jazeera. MSNBC basically shut down any conversations on the Mid East until they had resolve on the Zimmerman issue, and believe me, if you read about Al Jazeera, while they are making an effort (spending tons of money) to appear reasonable will join the fray promoting what they want. It is not just these two networks, but nobody reads, searches for what is happening...just find a favorite "talking head" and rely on whatever you are told to be factual, when in reality most of it is not

This constant drone fills our homes 24/7...it appears that most are helpless to get out of the zones somebody put them in, and thus we find ourselves "taking sides" on every issue. It becomes difficult for people to call evil by its name...EVIL. We seem to want or need some "political" approval to condemn it.

[gomoho]

Bucco - I may be naïve, but I believe the majority of people do lean one way or the other and tend to watch the talking heads of their choice, but are intelligent enough to pick and choose what is being said and accept some and discard the rest.

I think things always seem to be so political because there is such a huge divide in this country right now with some strongly believing in their point and the other in theirs. Not sure people are looking for political approval, but are just tired of always being portrayed as the bad guy which forces some to speak louder than others.

[Bucco]

Bucco - I may be naïve, but I believe the majority of people do lean one way or the other and tend to watch the talking heads of their choice, but are intelligent enough to pick and choose what is being said and accept some and discard the rest.

I think things always seem to be so political because there is such a huge divide in this country right now with some strongly believing in their point and the other in theirs. Not sure people are looking for political approval, but are just tired of always being portrayed as the bad guy which forces some to speak louder than others.

Maybe you right, and maybe I hope you are right.

I just think the divide you speak of is a result of the constant drone from the right and left on every subject, most of them do not need a right or left.

I think it has left us leaderless EXCEPT in politics, and politics is not an ingredient in everything, or not supposed to be.

[Golfingnut]

One of the men was half African American, one was African American and one was white. MSNBC claims this was a violent crime. FOX claims it was a racially motivated crime.

[graciegirl]

One of the men was half African American, one was African American and one was white. MSNBC claims this was a violent crime. FOX claims it was a racially motivated crime.

I don't care if they were bright green. These kids are evil.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003881065/419990800_SuspectsOklaShooting_answer_1_xlarge.jpe g

[Golfingnut]

I don't care if they were bright green. These kids are evil.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003881065/419990800_SuspectsOklaShooting_answer_1_xlarge.jpe g

Agree. But since they of both the white and black race, why say it is a racially motivated hate crime? FOX got it wrong on this event.

[graciegirl]

Agree. But since they of both the white and black race, why say it is a racially motivated hate crime? FOX got it wrong on this event.

Because two were tweeting racial remarks? I saw that on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/

[Golfingnut]

Because two were tweeting racial remarks? I saw that on CNN.

Well I believe this was just a senseless crime. I also think indications of racial reasons from FOX is only helpful to those that wish to incite and not find solution to. These three boys were a product of this societies doing and attempts to divide us all into two groups is at a minimum, ignorant.

[graciegirl]

well i believe this was just a senseless crime. I also think indications of racial reasons from fox is only helpful to those that wish to incite and not find solution to. These three boys were a product of this societies doing and attempts to divide us all into two groups is at a minimum, ignorant.

cnn

[gomoho]

This kid tweeted hateful race comments and you don't think this one is racially motivated. Are you of the belief only whites are racist???

I don't know if this kid was racially motivated or not, but I certainly wouldn't just dismiss it particularly with the evidence at hand. All three of them are definitely evil and I agree a product of or sick society.

[Golfingnut]

This kid tweeted hateful race comments and you don't think this one is racially motivated. Are you of the belief only whites are racist???

I don't know if this kid was racially motivated or not, but I certainly wouldn't just dismiss it particularly with the evidence at hand. All three of them are definitely evil and I agree a product of or sick society.

I don't know either. I am trying to point out that as normal, FOX jumps out first with statements to make white people lock their doors in fear. One of the three was WHITE. If you condemn every person that has made a racist statement you will have very few of any race innocent. When I watched FOX report on this, they made it sound like a racist assassination. MSNBC reported it as a senseless violent crime and that is what I find correct.

[PaPaLarry]

I don't know either. I am trying to point out that as normal, FOX jumps out first with statements to make white people lock their doors in fear. One of the three was WHITE. If you condemn every person that has made a racist statement you will have very few of any race innocent. When I watched FOX report on this, they made it sound like a racist assassination. MSNBC reported it as a senseless violent crime and that is what I find correct.
Fox didn't get it wrong anymore then CNN, or NBC etc etc etc!!! We need to stop looking for excuses, when something as ugly as this happens. What Fox did, that no other station did (to my knowledge) is ask where are the leaders in the Black community, (Sharpton, Jackson,& even Obama) talking about "Family Unity", fatherless or motherless children, having umpteen children out of wedlock etc etc etc. Frankly, I thought "Fox" was more thorough, and got to the root of the problem, and not afraid to say it like it is, and did mention both races and their problems in teenagers growing up today. Some kids, believe they are entitled to everything today, and don't know what "earn it" means. I don't want to get into a contest, which news station is better, or which station is more to the point, because that's not the issue!! When kids are as evil as this, whether be black or white, then there is something really wrong in our society today. Nothing better then Family Unity and pride in mankind.

[graciegirl]

Fox didn't get it wrong anymore then CNN, or NBC etc etc etc!!! We need to stop looking for excuses, when something as ugly as this happens. What Fox did, that no other station did (to my knowledge) is ask where are the leaders in the Black community, (Sharpton, Jackson,& even Obama) talking about "Family Unity", fatherless or motherless children, having umpteen children out of wedlock etc etc etc. Frankly, I thought "Fox" was more thorough, and got to the root of the problem, and not afraid to say it like it is, and did mention both races and their problems in teenagers growing up today. Some kids, believe they are entitled to everything today, and don't know what "earn it" means. I don't want to get into a contest, which news station is better, or which station is more to the point, because that's not the issue!! When kids are as evil as this, whether be black or white, then there is something really wrong in our society today. Nothing better then Family Unity and pride in mankind.

Beautifully said. We are all walking on eggs fearing to hurt others and yet there is a big problem that doesn't have an easy answer and I think it deals in part with the economic support of folks whose families should be caring for themselves. No matter what color they are. Even if the parents are not married, if they produce a child together than each is responsible to not only pay for that child but be a part of it's life. That isn't happening as much as it used to and I think if we pulled out a little on paying the bills than people would take over their own responsibilities. Perhaps that is too simplistic. I don't know the answers. I don't even know the right questions.

We cannot continue to blame society for lack of individual responsibility. I think that things are much fairer now in the work place for all people. Certainly not perfect but improved enough that if a person really wanted to work they could find it. We can't blame things on situations that occurred more than a hundred years ago as awful as that was. Many generations of immigrants have come to this country and proved themselves by working hard despite unfair prejudice against them. I think it is much harder for some races and ethnicities than others to make a good wage, unfortunately, but not impossible to care for themselves if they limit their family size and sacrifice like many of us did. I hope I am not being unfair.

I could be wrong and frequently am.

[Golfingnut]

Fox didn't get it wrong anymore then CNN, or NBC etc etc etc!!! We need to stop looking for excuses, when something as ugly as this happens. What Fox did, that no other station did (to my knowledge) is ask where are the leaders in the Black community, (Sharpton, Jackson,& even Obama) talking about "Family Unity", fatherless or motherless children, having umpteen children out of wedlock etc etc etc. Frankly, I thought "Fox" was more thorough, and got to the root of the problem, and not afraid to say it like it is, and did mention both races and their problems in teenagers growing up today. Some kids, believe they are entitled to everything today, and don't know what "earn it" means. I don't want to get into a contest, which news station is better, or which station is more to the point, because that's not the issue!! When kids are as evil as this, whether be black or white, then there is something really wrong in our society today. Nothing better then Family Unity and pride in mankind.
I am saying the same thing you are, but it looks like we disagree when we don't. You are right if I read correctly, we agree this is stupidity and not racial. Jessie has came out condemning the three boys. Jessie Jackson and bill o,Riley had very similar responses and I find that refreshing.

[gomoho]

Golfingnut - if you watched O'Reilly last night you would have heard him definitively say he did not believe this was racially motivated - I'm not so sure - but, your blanket characterization of Fox News reporting is unfounded. And unless you are continuously watching don't know how you can make that assumption.

[Golfingnut]

Golfingnut - if you watched O'Reilly last night you would have heard him definitively say he did not believe this was racially motivated - I'm not so sure - but, your blanket characterization of Fox News reporting is unfounded. And unless you are continuously watching don't know how you can make that assumption.

I beat you to it, look back one post.

I don't include Bill O in the typical FOX style reporting.

[Suzi]

Food for thought: Do you not think it is possible for a white boy to hate all white people? Just the same as a black boy brought up in a white home to hate all blacks? Kidnapped victims have this type of brainwashing happen all the time. Year after year, month after month, and day after day of hearing that white people are nothing but trouble, the source of your boredom etc. could cause any boy to think like the group. Ever hear of group mentality? We are a product of our environment. Hanging with the wrong group, no parenting, gangs your source of family.....what would we expect.

This thing is awful, just awful. Its so painful to me I can hardly discuss it. Gotta move on.

[Golfingnut]

Food for thought: Do you not think it is possible for a white boy to hate all white people? Just the same as a black boy brought up in a white home to hate all blacks? Kidnapped victims have this type of brainwashing happen all the time. Year after year, month after month, and day after day of hearing that white people are nothing but trouble, the source of your boredom etc. could cause any boy to think like the group. Ever hear of group mentality? We are a product of our environment. Hanging with the wrong group, no parenting, gangs your source of family.....what would we expect.

This thing is awful, just awful. Its so painful to me I can hardly discuss it. Gotta move on.

You nailed it. These horible things are not racist in that they do not meet true definition but rather just angry young people with the means and desire to put hurt on others for no specific reason. For some they are crying out for help, attention and exceptence. We force mothers to give birth to children they don't want and have no intention of raising properly. And in some cases do not have the means nor ability to raise children.

[Bucco]

You nailed it. These horible things are not racist in that they do not meet true definition but rather just angry young people with the means and desire to put hurt on others for no specific reason. For some they are crying out for help, attention and exceptence. We force mothers to give birth to children they don't want and have no intention of raising properly. And in some cases do not have the means nor ability to raise children.

"We force mothers to give birth to children they don't want and have no intention of raising properly. And in some cases do not have the means nor ability to raise children. "

I. personally, have trouble giving the punks or their families an out with this defense.

[graciegirl]

You nailed it. These horible things are not racist in that they do not meet true definition but rather just angry young people with the means and desire to put hurt on others for no specific reason. For some they are crying out for help, attention and exceptence. We force mothers to give birth to children they don't want and have no intention of raising properly. And in some cases do not have the means nor ability to raise children.

I don't understand this post or the post prior to it in that who exactly was raised in a white or black home to hate others? I also don't know what you meant about forcing mothers to give birth to their children. Abortion is legal and so is birth control. Most families don't teach racial hatred that I know of. Black or white or any color. That I know of.

I don't see this killing as a cry for acceptance either. Or a cry for help? I know that if we reward bad behavior with attention in little ones, we usually get more bad behavior. Acceptance in society usually comes with living in accepted ways and some things earn people points that are pretty much accepted by all. Being successful is the best retaliation for being looked down on.

Perhaps I am racist. I don't want to be racist. I want to be colorblind.
I am confused. I really am.

[Suzi]

Back in the day, we probably all had some relative that was very racist. Black, white hispanic or whatever. If a youngster is raised in a home where these slurs were routine, common, day after day, indoctrinated so to speak, is it not possible for that kid to believe that as truth? If you live, sleep, eat, play with black gangs who believe that anything white is the cause of your unhappiness, does it not follow that you could automatically hate white people? Remember Patty Hearst?

[Golfingnut]

I don't understand this post or the post prior to it in that who exactly was raised in a white or black home to hate others? I also don't know what you meant about forcing mothers to give birth to their children. Abortion is legal and so is birth control. Most families don't teach racial hatred that I know of. Black or white or any color. That I know of.

I don't see this killing as a cry for acceptance either. Or a cry for help? I know that if we reward bad behavior with attention in little ones, we usually get more bad behavior. Acceptance in society usually comes with living in accepted ways and some things earn people points that are pretty much accepted by all. Being successful is the best retaliation for being looked down on.

Perhaps I am racist. I don't want to be racist. I want to be colorblind.
I am confused. I really am.

I have lived in Washington, D.C. And Atlanta Georgia for 18 years prior to retirement. I have no doubt that I am a racist. I will not act upon it as most racist whites and racist blacks will not. Anyone that says I do not have a racist bone in my body is not being honest. Some of them think they are but they are not. These three boys, 1 black, 1 mix race and 1 white would have killed the victim be he white, black, women or whatever. We make society that encourages skinny to hate fat, tall to hate short and straights to hate gays etc.
I would be willing to host a HOW CAN WE LOVE EACH OTHER GROUP. Any interest in that.

[ilovetv]

You nailed it. These horible things are not racist in that they do not meet true definition but rather just angry young people with the means and desire to put hurt on others for no specific reason. For some they are crying out for help, attention and exceptence. We force mothers to give birth to children they don't want and have no intention of raising properly. And in some cases do not have the means nor ability to raise children.

Nobody's "forcing women to give birth". The real problem is that the same people constantly defending the right to abortion on demand (lefties) are the same ones who wildly oppose in the courts removal of children like these three boys from their "home" that is poisoning them at a very young age, toward being criminals. Too often, social workers and courts put the "rights" of the mother before those of a helpless child.

It doesn't jibe to insist on abortion rights at any stage of gestation, but yet insist that a child raising himself on the streets should not be taken away from his mother/father and raised in an orphanage or put up for adoption to people who would actually care for them and teach them a better way of life.

[Golfingnut]

Nobody's "forcing women to give birth". The real problem is that the same people constantly defending the right to abortion on demand (lefties) are the same ones who wildly oppose in the courts removal of children like these three boys from their "home" that is poisoning them at a very young age, toward being criminals. Too often, social workers and courts put the "rights" of the mother before those of a helpless child.

It doesn't jibe to insist on abortion rights at any stage of gestation, but yet insist that a child raising himself on the streets should not be taken away from his mother/father and raised in an orphanage or put up for adoption to people who would actually care for them and teach them a better way of life.

Good point. My opinion, many children would be better off in an orphanage than being in the possession of their birth mothers.

[Bavarian]

The so-called unwanted babies and children should be allowed to be adopted. Some parents should not have them and plenty of us would have adopted them and raised them right.

[gomoho]

Some of these "unwanted" babies are wanted for the cash they bring in.

[Golfingnut]

Some of these "unwanted" babies are wanted for the cash they bring in.

As sad as your statement is, it's true.

[PaPaLarry]

Good point. My opinion, many children would be better off in an orphanage than being in the possession of their birth mothers.
I myself was raised in an orphanage, and was taught respect and morals, and love of God. So good point, that they would probably be better off in an orphanage, then in the possession of their birth mothers

[janmcn]

The District Attorney has just announced that this was not a hate crime and will not be prosecuted as such under the hate crime law that President Obama signed in 2009.

[graciegirl]

The District Attorney has just announced that this was not a hate crime and will not be prosecuted as such under the hate crime law that President Obama signed in 2009.


Well then. That is how it is.

[gomoho]

So be it - don't agree, but have to accept it.

[PaPaLarry]

I guess we have to except what District Attorney said, even though the word, "hate" was used in describing certain people. Must except the law!!

[Golfingnut]

I agree with the DA.

[Taltarzac725]

I agree with the DA.

Sounds accurate to me as well. This tragedy reminds me of the Leopold and Loeb murder. Leopold and Loeb Trial Home Page (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/leoploeb/leopold.htm) But in that 1924 case the murderers were extremely privileged young men trying to commit the perfect crime. Sociopaths with a mission and not bored sociopaths with nothing better to do. Still they all seem to be sociopaths. Not sure if education, sports programs, etc. would have stopped any of these killers.

[Golfingnut]

Sounds accurate to me as well. This tragedy reminds me of the Leopold and Loeb murder. Leopold and Loeb Trial Home Page (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/leoploeb/leopold.htm) But in that 1924 case the murderers were extremely privileged young men trying to commit the perfect crime. Sociopaths with a mission and not bored sociopaths with nothing better to do. Still they all seem to be sociopaths. Not sure if education, sports programs, etc. would have stopped any of these killers.

Absolutely correct and it's takes more than the victim and perpetrator being of different races before it is a racist hate crime.

[Monkei]

As sad as your statement is, it's true.

welfare pays more than minimum wage in 35 states. Want people to go back to work, raise the minimum wage.

All the top benefit takers live in red states except for Maine.

[Monkei]

I wish it were a new trend, but it is not and your concern about the media is well founded.

This death and the motivation behind it deserves as much scrutiny as other cases but this death will not get it. It will be a minor story for a day or so and then go away. Do not be swayed by outrage because mostly it is politically motivated.

This deserves as much discussion as recent big news killings but it will not even touch it...no political gain to be had.

they were arrested and immediately charged for the crime, they will stand trial and hopefully get a fair trial. That is all people want in this country. Rich kids should not be excused, white should not get off easier ... it's a simple fair and easy way to shose equality.

[JP]

I think SuziQ is right. That white kid is effectively/socially black and consequently I think this was a hate crime.

[skyc6]

I don't know either. I am trying to point out that as normal, FOX jumps out first with statements to make white people lock their doors in fear. One of the three was WHITE. If you condemn every person that has made a racist statement you will have very few of any race innocent. When I watched FOX report on this, they made it sound like a racist assassination. MSNBC reported it as a senseless violent crime and that is what I find correct.

Clearly you do not know that mixed race kids who are part black almost always identify with the black race, especially where poverty is another factor.
They will tell you that if they are 1/4 black, they are black.

[ilovetv]

welfare pays more than minimum wage in 35 states. Want people to go back to work, raise the minimum wage.

All the top benefit takers live in red states except for Maine.

Yeah. Reward and pay more to people who have no work ethic, have proven they do not care to show up on time IF they show up at all, and were content sitting at home idle and smokin' dope or boozin' or both.

[twinklesweep]

I'm sorry I was less than clear in my earlier post. When I described the perps as "children," I meant strictly age-wise in that they have not reached adult age; fortunately they are being tried as adults.

And when the poster said they would simply go out and buy another gun, to me that sounded like they could simply go out and buy another gun; nothing was mentioned about legality.

One of the men was half African American, one was African American and one was white. MSNBC claims this was a violent crime. FOX claims it was a racially motivated crime.

If this is accurate, then MSNBC was correct and FOX was wrong. You can prove the black kid tweeting from now till the cows come home about hating and wanting to kill whites, and there may be no doubt that these are his true feelings, but I don't believe that had anything to do with this savage murder. The victim was in the wrong place at the wrong time; he could have been of any race and the timing was opportune.

I don't care if they were bright green. These kids are evil.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003881065/419990800_SuspectsOklaShooting_answer_1_xlarge.jpe g

Without a doubt they are evil--but that still doesn't make this a "hate crime" in the sense of racism. Remember, these sociopathic perpetrators were "bored" and "decided to kill somebody"; there was no mention that the "somebody" had to be white but rather just had to be opportunistic.

I don't know either. I am trying to point out that as normal, FOX jumps out first with statements to make white people lock their doors in fear. One of the three was WHITE. If you condemn every person that has made a racist statement you will have very few of any race innocent. When I watched FOX report on this, they made it sound like a racist assassination. MSNBC reported it as a senseless violent crime and that is what I find correct.

When a media source immediately makes a terrible event like this racial when it was actually violent, it's not only incredibly counterproductive but it also creates divisiveness, with one result being the fear it inspires. But as "they" say (and I agree): it "sells papers"....

Good point. My opinion, many children would be better off in an orphanage than being in the possession of their birth mothers.

This is true, but it's worth remembering, before we begin wailing that the world is going to h*** in a handbasket, that this is nothing new!

There has been virtually no reference in this lengthy thread to the reaction in Australia. This is part of the story at the link that follows:

Call for U.S. tourism boycott

The case has triggered fury among many people in Australia.

"It is another example of murder mayhem on Main Street," former Australian Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer told CNN's Piers Morgan.

A chart in the Washington Post, using data from The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, shows Australia to have among the lowest gun-related killings in the developed world. The United States had the highest. Former Prime Minister John Howard told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in March that gun control laws instituted after a mass shooting were responsible for the low number.

(Suspect in Australian baseball player's death posed with guns - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma))

I cannot even begin to address the chauvinistic attitude I've already heard expressed along the lines of (and I'm being polite...) "Who's Australia anyway, and who are they to dictate about our tourism industry?" What I do know is that (1) boycotts can be effective, in fact, very effective; and even though our economy has gratefully improved recently, (2) who will be the losers to whatever extent such a boycott happens. On some levels that do count, this murder is, among other things, an "international incident."

[Golfingnut]

I'm sorry I was less than clear in my earlier post. When I described the perps as "children," I meant strictly age-wise in that they have not reached adult age; fortunately they are being tried as adults.

And when the poster said they would simply go out and buy another gun, to me that sounded like they could simply go out and buy another gun; nothing was mentioned about legality.



If this is accurate, then MSNBC was correct and FOX was wrong. You can prove the black kid tweeting from now till the cows come home about hating and wanting to kill whites, and there may be no doubt that these are his true feelings, but I don't believe that had anything to do with this savage murder. The victim was in the wrong place at the wrong time; he could have been of any race and the timing was opportune.



Without a doubt they are evil--but that still doesn't make this a "hate crime" in the sense of racism. Remember, these sociopathic perpetrators were "bored" and "decided to kill somebody"; there was no mention that the "somebody" had to be white but rather just had to be opportunistic.



When a media source immediately makes a terrible event like this racial when it was actually violent, it's not only incredibly counterproductive but it also creates divisiveness, with one result being the fear it inspires. But as "they" say (and I agree): it "sells papers"....



This is true, but it's worth remembering, before we begin wailing that the world is going to h*** in a handbasket, that this is nothing new!

There has been virtually no reference in this lengthy thread to the reaction in Australia. This is part of the story at the link that follows:

Call for U.S. tourism boycott

The case has triggered fury among many people in Australia.

"It is another example of murder mayhem on Main Street," former Australian Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer told CNN's Piers Morgan.

A chart in the Washington Post, using data from The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, shows Australia to have among the lowest gun-related killings in the developed world. The United States had the highest. Former Prime Minister John Howard told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in March that gun control laws instituted after a mass shooting were responsible for the low number.

(Suspect in Australian baseball player's death posed with guns - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma))

I cannot even begin to address the chauvinistic attitude I've already heard expressed along the lines of (and I'm being polite...) "Who's Australia anyway, and who are they to dictate about our tourism industry?" What I do know is that (1) boycotts can be effective, in fact, very effective; and even though our economy has gratefully improved recently, (2) who will be the losers to whatever extent such a boycott happens. On some levels that do count, this murder is, among other things, an "international incident."

The DA assigned to this case agrees with us also. The crime was Hateful, but not a racially motivated crime. I am waiting for the networks to correct their prejudgment but doubt it will come. Judge not my Christian brothers and sisters. Making false charges can result in criminals getting away free and that would be horible in this case.

[twinklesweep]

OFFICERS IN BRONX FIRE 41 SHOTS, AND AN UNARMED MAN IS KILLED

An unarmed West African immigrant with no criminal record was killed early yesterday by four [white plain-clothes] New York City police officers who fired 41 shots at him[19 of which hit him, including some which were found to have traveled up his pants leg, meaning he was clearly down while the shooting continued] in the doorway of his Bronx apartment building, the police said.

It was unclear yesterday why the police officers had opened fire on the man at 12:44 A.M. in the vestibule of his building at 1157 Wheeler Avenue in the Soundview section. The man, Amadou Diallo, 22, who came to America more than two years ago from Guinea and worked as a street peddler in Manhattan, died at the scene, the police said.

The Bronx District Attorney's office is investigating the shooting, whose details were still murky last night because there were apparently no civilian witnesses and none of the police officers involved had given statements to investigators. But Inspector Michael Collins, a police spokesman, said that investigators who went to the scene of the shooting did not find a weapon on or near Mr. Diallo....

Officers in Bronx Fire 41 Shots, And an Unarmed Man Is Killed - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/05/nyregion/officers-in-bronx-fire-41-shots-and-an-unarmed-man-is-killed.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Emphasis and addition of words and phrases in the news story are mine.] The response to this shooting on the part of many was jaw dropping and head shaking. How could four big, white plain-clothes police officers fire 41 bullets at a small, slightly built, unarmed African immigrant as he stood in the entranceway of his own home with his wallet in his hand? And the results of the trial of the four officers?

THE DIALLO VERDICT: THE OVERVIEW; 4 OFFICERS IN DIALLO SHOOTING ARE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES

Four New York City police officers were acquitted today of all charges in the death of Amadou Diallo, the immigrant from Guinea who was fired on 41 times as he stood, unarmed, in the vestibule of his apartment building in the Bronx.

The verdict came in a tense and racially charged case that led to anti-police demonstrations, arrests and a reorganization of the department's Street Crime Unit, to which the officers belonged.

But litigation over the shooting might not be over. After the verdict, Mary Jo White, the United States attorney in Manhattan, announced that her office, which has been monitoring the case from the start, and the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department would review the shooting to determine whether any civil rights laws were violated. And Mr. Diallo's parents plan to file a civil lawsuit against the city. The officers could also face administrative charges within the department.

The shooting occurred about 12:40 a.m. on Feb. 4, 1999, when the four officers, all in street clothes, approached Mr. Diallo on the stoop of his building and fired 41 shots, striking him 19 times, as he retreated inside. The officers, who are white, said they had thought he had a gun. It turned out to be a wallet....

THE DIALLO VERDICT: THE OVERVIEW; 4 OFFICERS IN DIALLO SHOOTING ARE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/26/nyregion/diallo-verdict-overview-4-officers-diallo-shooting-are-acquitted-all-charges.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, this killing of Amadou Diallo by four police officers was not only NOT considered a "hate crime" insofar as racism was concerned, the verdict also shows that it was not even considered a "crime"! And the trial for this "non-crime"? Here is a portion of the article from Time Magazine:

AT DIALLO TRIAL, JUSTICE IS WEIGHED IN DIFFERENT MEASURES

It's become something of a bitter, rhetorical joke: Where would you rather be, as a black man encountering the police — New York City or Los Angeles?

While discussions of race have been aggressively squelched in the courtroom, the troubled legacies of Rodney King and Abner Louima haunt the trial of four white New York City police officers accused of murdering African trinket salesman Amadou Diallo. The police say they mistook Diallo's black wallet, which he apparently proffered in an outstretched hand, for a gun, and believing their lives were in danger, the police fired their weapons 41 times.

The February 1999 shooting sparked heated, celebrity-studded protests and calls for the resignation of New York police commissioner Howard Safir. Get-tough anti-crime methods were under fire and under the microscope; years of mounting tension between cops and minorities came to a head after Diallo's killing — and loud factions demanded action and answers.

Nearly a year after the shooting, unease surrounding the case had barely abated, and the decision was made to move the trial upstate in an attempt to escape the blinding spotlight of New York City's criminal courts. So the press corps and New York City court officers moved to the state capital, Albany, filling area hotels — and imagining themselves facing another O.J.-length trial....

At Diallo Trial, Justice Is Weighed in Different Measures - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,39427,00.html)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can judge for ourselves without being a part of the proceedings, though our judgments are meaningless in relation to what actually takes place in the courtroom. And the jury spoke: What would have appeared to have been a "hate crime" by today's standards was considered not to have been a crime at all!

[graciegirl]

I'm sorry I was less than clear in my earlier post. When I described the perps as "children," I meant strictly age-wise in that they have not reached adult age; fortunately they are being tried as adults.

And when the poster said they would simply go out and buy another gun, to me that sounded like they could simply go out and buy another gun; nothing was mentioned about legality.



If this is accurate, then MSNBC was correct and FOX was wrong. You can prove the black kid tweeting from now till the cows come home about hating and wanting to kill whites, and there may be no doubt that these are his true feelings, but I don't believe that had anything to do with this savage murder. The victim was in the wrong place at the wrong time; he could have been of any race and the timing was opportune.



Without a doubt they are evil--but that still doesn't make this a "hate crime" in the sense of racism. Remember, these sociopathic perpetrators were "bored" and "decided to kill somebody"; there was no mention that the "somebody" had to be white but rather just had to be opportunistic.



When a media source immediately makes a terrible event like this racial when it was actually violent, it's not only incredibly counterproductive but it also creates divisiveness, with one result being the fear it inspires. But as "they" say (and I agree): it "sells papers"....



This is true, but it's worth remembering, before we begin wailing that the world is going to h*** in a handbasket, that this is nothing new!

There has been virtually no reference in this lengthy thread to the reaction in Australia. This is part of the story at the link that follows:

Call for U.S. tourism boycott

The case has triggered fury among many people in Australia.

"It is another example of murder mayhem on Main Street," former Australian Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer told CNN's Piers Morgan.

A chart in the Washington Post, using data from The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, shows Australia to have among the lowest gun-related killings in the developed world. The United States had the highest. Former Prime Minister John Howard told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in March that gun control laws instituted after a mass shooting were responsible for the low number.

(Suspect in Australian baseball player's death posed with guns - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma))

I cannot even begin to address the chauvinistic attitude I've already heard expressed along the lines of (and I'm being polite...) "Who's Australia anyway, and who are they to dictate about our tourism industry?" What I do know is that (1) boycotts can be effective, in fact, very effective; and even though our economy has gratefully improved recently, (2) who will be the losers to whatever extent such a boycott happens. On some levels that do count, this murder is, among other things, an "international incident."

I have read and reread this post and fail to see the point trying to be made about Australia and about guns being easy to obtain for anyone.

In the past six months I have begun to change my mind about owning a gun. Our home never saw the need for one, but when the bad guys are armed...well...still thinking about that.

I always think of Australia as having some super great ideas. You can't move there unless you have a job or a purpose such as being a student.
I think of them as allies in every sense, English speaking, independent, not much violence and crime, doing better than our country.

This crime hurts my heart on all levels. I want the entire black race to be successful so that the folks who are black and successful no longer have to be ashamed of so many who are frankly failures in every sense.

Those are harsh words. That is gathering people in a bunch and criticizing them. I wish I knew the answer to stop the cycle of fatherless families living on welfare. Necessity is often the mother of invention. People need to FEEL important and have self worth. Living on the dole is not a respected life. Many young black males decide to be entrepreneurs in the lucrative drug business and we see them die, day after day as they kill each other for unpaid bills or for turf.

If we could stem the drugs from getting into this country, and control the prescription drug business, and gradually pull away the financial support of able bodied and able minded people, it might be a step toward helping down and out blacks AND whites with pride and independence that every human is born with.

I don't know. But slinging hatred back and forth, even among us here on this forum is NOT the answer.

[Golfingnut]

I have read and reread this post and fail to see the point trying to be made about Australia and about guns being easy to obtain for anyone.

In the past six months I have begun to change my mind about owning a gun. Our home never saw the need for one, but when the bad guys are armed...well...still thinking about that.

I always think of Australia as having some super great ideas. You can't move there unless you have a job or a purpose such as being a student.
I think of them as allies in every sense, English speaking, independent, not much violence and crime, doing better than our country.

This crime hurts my heart on all levels. I want the entire black race to be successful so that the folks who are black and successful no longer have to be ashamed of so many who are frankly failures in every sense.

Those are harsh words. That is gathering people in a bunch and criticizing them. I wish I knew the answer to stop the cycle of fatherless families living on welfare. Necessity is often the mother of invention. People need to FEEL important and have self worth. Living on the dole is not a respected life. Many young black males decide to be entrepreneurs in the lucrative drug business and we see them die, day after day as they kill each other for unpaid bills or for turf.

If we could stem the drugs from getting into this country, and control the prescription drug business, and gradually pull away the financial support of able bodied and able minded people, it might be a step toward helping down and out blacks AND whites with pride and independence that every human is born with.

I don't know. But slinging hatred back and forth, even among us here on this forum is NOT the answer.


I think you are missing the intent and message in twinkle,s post. I see sense being made above the others posting on this thread. Twinkle takes prejudice and politics out of the information making the thread more clear to me.
The post you reference is based on fact rather than personal feelings. I hope you still love me Gracie. Hugs to you.

[Bucco]

I think the only reason this is even a thread on here is the ongoing, over one year long coverage of the Zimmerman case. The marches, the dedication of a complete network for a time to it, the rhetoric which was shrill and caustic, the intervention twice by the POTUS, and on and on was simply the groundwork for a reaction like this.

This crime is horrible, but not unique, save the Australian homeland of the victime. It happens over and over, but was brought to the forefront because of the Zimmerman fiasco and subsequent events.

Until we can talk about race without worrying about being politically correct, and weighing how we can gain something from it, the problem goes on.

THERE IS A PROBLEM......face it head on. Forget saying what the other guy did...forget worrying about having feelings hurt...forget calling anyone who wants to talk about it without a political gain a racist. Until then....there will be no solution to any of this.

[graciegirl]

I think you are missing the intent and message in twinkle,s post. I see sense being made above the others posting on this thread. Twinkle takes prejudice and politics out of the information making the thread more clear to me.
The post you reference is based on fact rather than personal feelings. I hope you still love me Gracie. Hugs to you.

I will read it again Lou. Need coffee. Had bad dreams from going back to bed and falling asleep again.

We need to read each post and not prejudge any posters intent. I don't do that sometimes.

Sometimes I get impatient when political correctness does not allow us to really talk about issues. I know this latest shooting of a young college student who is white by some black kids and the beating to death of an old man who was innocent of any reason for it makes so many black people cringe again. Maybe they don't know that many whites do understand and wish that we could help. I think that Martin Luther's dream has come a long way in fifty years but herculean efforts still need to be made by all of us. ALL of us.

Off the subject.(or is it?) Now I will read Twinklesweep's post again.

[Golfingnut]

I will read it again Lou. Need coffee. Had bad dreams from going back to bed and falling asleep again.

We need to read each post and not prejudge any posters intent. I don't do that sometimes.

Sometimes I get impatient when political correctness does not allow us to really talk about issues. I know this latest shooting of a young college student who is white by some black kids and the beating to death of an old man who was innocent of any reason for it makes so many black people cringe again. Maybe they don't know that many whites do understand and wish that we could help. I think that Martin Luther's dream has come a long way in fifty years but herculean efforts still need to be made by all of us. ALL of us.

Off the subject.(or is it?) Now I will read Twinklesweep's post again.

I am constantly jumped on for being way off base when I post with what I intend to be an agreement with the OP. go figure..... I have one that I must refrain from responding to recently for this very reason. I misunderstand his posts and he mine. In that case, it is more respectful not to respond at all. So, in short, we don't all think alike.

[blueash]

I think this thread has gone far enough into race when posters are claiming the only reason a white kid is involved is that he's been made a white hating pseudo-black killer by being exposed to black people.

I present to you Konrad Schafer, a baby faced 15 year old white teen who sits in jail right now in central Florida for murder for the shooting of a man waiting at a bus stop. And why did Konrad, a white teen with a father kill? According to the police his reason was

Konrad Schafer said he killed because it would be "fun and cool," according to police.'

Even more, Schafer is involved in a second murder and multiple random shootings while joyriding. And how did he get his .45 weapon?

His father has now also been charged. Dad had Konrad go gun shopping to get a weapon because :

Father said he bought the boy the weapon - as well as hundreds of rounds of ammunition - because Konrad was 'having problems with unidentified subjects in Poinciana, Florida,' according to an arrest affidavit


Now I mention this local case which is freshly in the news in an attempt to demonstrate that killing for fun is not race based and there are so many errors of logic and reasoning in any attempt to twist the Oklahoma story into a race story.

[Warren Kiefer]

Not even funny !

Actually RIDICULOUS !
Why do some people say such stupid things??

[Warren Kiefer]

they were arrested and immediately charged for the crime, they will stand trial and hopefully get a fair trial. That is all people want in this country. Rich kids should not be excused, white should not get off easier ... it's a simple fair and easy way to shose equality.

It disturbs me that the media went into a feeding frenzy over the Trayvon Martin killing. The media, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson screamed loud and clear for weeks. Where is the meda and these two men now that there has been no less than three brutal and unwarranted killings of innocent people in just one week.

[Bucco]

Why do some people say such stupid things??

Because they can because they are allowed. So many names from the old political up to the same old flaming tricks.

[Bucco]

It disturbs me that the media went into a feeding frenzy over the Trayvon Martin killing. The media, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson screamed loud and clear for weeks. Where is the meda and these two men now that there has been no less than three brutal and unwarranted killings of innocent people in just one week.

As I said before, this thread we are typing in would not even exist if our nation was not held captive on the Zimmerman case. We were all made to feel guilty, the POTUS discussed it twice, marches, a network who basically suspended everything for that case, and the ongoing coverage by all.

That is the only reason this thread exists

[Golfingnut]

Because they can because they are allowed. So many names from the old political up to the same old flaming tricks.

That may be true, but thankfully we have moderators and admin that will not tolerate the foolishness of the past. We are all better with being held to a higher standard. Tks admin for keeping this site safe and civil.

[blueash]

It disturbs me that the media went into a feeding frenzy over the Trayvon Martin killing. The media, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson screamed loud and clear for weeks. Where is the meda and these two men now that there has been no less than three brutal and unwarranted killings of innocent people in just one week.

I will try, and likely fail, to help with understanding why the black community was and still is outraged by the Martin killing. Martin was followed because he was black, he was profiled by a man who is not apparently punk or a crazy and thus seems representative of the majority culture. This representative of the majority culture made assumptions about Martin based only on his age and color, not on his behavior or demeanor. As a result Martin was killed. Walking while black. And Revs. Jackson and Sharpton got involved because there was no arrest. Everyone should note that the issue was the lack of an arrest, of the opportunity for a jury trial and a full airing of the events within the limits of our system. While many pundits on the pro-Zimmerman side predicted riots, there were none. The anger was in large part about the lack of any action by the majority culture (white) against the killing of a teenager who did nothing other than have black skin, wear a hoodie, and get followed by a cop wannabe. That is how it looked to a black person. Who started and who was winning any fistfight was not the issue. There would have been no stalking and no fight if Travon had been white.

The case in Oklahoma is of the killing of a white young adult by people we all agree are delinquents and not representative of any culture and will not be championed by anyone. There was an immediate arrest in the case and these suspects will get their opportunity for a full and fair trial.

Lastly, I'm confused by your statement that there have been no less than 3 murders of innocent people in the last week. In the last week there have certainly been hundreds of murders in this country. The fact that they are categorized as murders means the victims were "innocent" in the event which resulted in their death. The media has not apparently gone into a frenzy about the great majority of these murders, only those where a white person was killed by people some of whom were non-whites. Why is that? Why are we only hearing about white victims of senseless killings? Who is whipping up the frenzy on these cases and why?

[Golfingnut]

Sorry Warren, but I must agree with blue ash on this one. Good post

[graciegirl]

http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/#view=all

[blueash]

Murder in America - WSJ.com (http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/#view=all)

I don't understand the point you are making with that link. It shows all murders between 2000-2010 except Florida (why?) and is sortable by many variables. What did you see that refutes or expands my understanding of this issue?

[Golfingnut]

I think we all dislike all murders, but, where we differ between one or another is the reason. We vary so vastly is what creates problems. I for one think that Zimmerman was a racist yet the three boys were just angry bad people. Regardless, two men are dead and should not be. Lets focus on stopping murder, regardless the reason. If you kill me, I won't care if you were racist or angry.

[Bucco]

I will try, and likely fail, to help with understanding why the black community was and still is outraged by the Martin killing. Martin was followed because he was black, he was profiled by a man who is not apparently punk or a crazy and thus seems representative of the majority culture. This representative of the majority culture made assumptions about Martin based only on his age and color, not on his behavior or demeanor. As a result Martin was killed. Walking while black. And Revs. Jackson and Sharpton got involved because there was no arrest. Everyone should note that the issue was the lack of an arrest, of the opportunity for a jury trial and a full airing of the events within the limits of our system. While many pundits on the pro-Zimmerman side predicted riots, there were none. The anger was in large part about the lack of any action by the majority culture (white) against the killing of a teenager who did nothing other than have black skin, wear a hoodie, and get followed by a cop wannabe. That is how it looked to a black person. Who started and who was winning any fistfight was not the issue. There would have been no stalking and no fight if Travon had been white.

The case in Oklahoma is of the killing of a white young adult by people we all agree are delinquents and not representative of any culture and will not be championed by anyone. There was an immediate arrest in the case and these suspects will get their opportunity for a full and fair trial.

Lastly, I'm confused by your statement that there have been no less than 3 murders of innocent people in the last week. In the last week there have certainly been hundreds of murders in this country. The fact that they are categorized as murders means the victims were "innocent" in the event which resulted in their death. The media has not apparently gone into a frenzy about the great majority of these murders, only those where a white person was killed by people some of whom were non-whites. Why is that? Why are we only hearing about white victims of senseless killings? Who is whipping up the frenzy on these cases and why?


MY opinion. You do not understand the Zimmerman case very well. The issue of arrest was a LEGAL ONE, not a social issue. The investigation was totally derailed while the police did exactly what they get payed for and well within the law (investigate the law as it pertained to this incident) It was all about the interpetation of the STAND YOUR GROUND law......so why was not the LAW allowed to handle this. The investigation was not complete in a time that satisfied the political folks using this horrendous crime. I am not a lawyer thus I cannot speak as intelligently on the law as you seem to feel you can. I know that once it became a MSNBC issue, the law was violated by politicians in Sanford allowing tapes to be heard by the family with no police presence...sort of unheard of. I know once the POTUS spoke up, the investigation fell apart.

So......lets call it what is was...a POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY...plain and simple.

The links below are just two crimes that seem a bit more racial than the Zimmerman trial, but no demonstrations...no outrage...and again, I am not an attorney so cannot speak to what is right and wrong as you feel you can but no matter how you say things are not happening, they are in fact happening.

And I am always impressed when someone can speak with such authority as you do ...."There would have been no stalking and no fight if Travon had been white.". That distinct unfettered knowledge would have been invaluable in court !!

JULY 27 2013

"Adams Morgan hate crime was motivated by Zimmerman verdict, police say
By Nicole Chavez and Stefanie Dazio,July 27, 2013

A Bethesda man was beaten and robbed early Saturday morning in Adams Morgan by three men who yelled, “This is for Trayvon Martin,” before attacking him, police said.

The incident is being investigated as a hate crime and robbery, according to D.C. police spokesman Araz Alali.

Three black men approached an adult white male from behind while he was walking in the 1700 block of Euclid Street NW at 1:26 a.m. Saturday, police said."

Adams Morgan hate crime was motivated by Zimmerman verdict, police say - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-27/local/40864655_1_hate-crime-three-perpetrators-trayvon-martin)


AUGUST 15

"Ray Widstrand, 26, who was jumped and beaten in a huge African-American gang of 40-to-50 people two weeks ago in St. Paul, Minnesota, has been taken out of a medically-induced coma after experiencing potentially-fatal brain swelling, according to a KSTP News report on Tuesay. At this time, Widstrand remains in stable yet critical condition. "

Ray Winstrand beat by blacks: Authorities won't call it a racial hate crime - National Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/white-beat-by-black-gang-authorities-refuse-calling-it-a-hate-crime)

I pray all this crap ends but until folks stop feeling compelled to say what they hear instead of actually finding out what happened, we are stuck in this continual political turmoil and that is what it is. Had the family not contacted CRUMP, NOT for legal advice, but for PR advice, who knows...maybe even an arrest and conviction. The investigation and crime became so contaminated never could justice be served. Justice was never given a chance.

Editing to add this and not sure if the end is where but...

We are a country of LAWS, not men !!!!

[donb9006]

I will try, and likely fail, to help with understanding why the black community was and still is outraged by the Martin killing. Martin was followed because he was black, he was profiled by a man who is not apparently punk or a crazy and thus seems representative of the majority culture. This representative of the majority culture made assumptions about Martin based only on his age and color, not on his behavior or demeanor. As a result Martin was killed. Walking while black. And Revs. Jackson and Sharpton got involved because there was no arrest. Everyone should note that the issue was the lack of an arrest, of the opportunity for a jury trial and a full airing of the events within the limits of our system. While many pundits on the pro-Zimmerman side predicted riots, there were none. The anger was in large part about the lack of any action by the majority culture (white) against the killing of a teenager who did nothing other than have black skin, wear a hoodie, and get followed by a cop wannabe. That is how it looked to a black person. Who started and who was winning any fistfight was not the issue. There would have been no stalking and no fight if Travon had been white.

The case in Oklahoma is of the killing of a white young adult by people we all agree are delinquents and not representative of any culture and will not be championed by anyone. There was an immediate arrest in the case and these suspects will get their opportunity for a full and fair trial.

Lastly, I'm confused by your statement that there have been no less than 3 murders of innocent people in the last week. In the last week there have certainly been hundreds of murders in this country. The fact that they are categorized as murders means the victims were "innocent" in the event which resulted in their death. The media has not apparently gone into a frenzy about the great majority of these murders, only those where a white person was killed by people some of whom were non-whites. Why is that? Why are we only hearing about white victims of senseless killings? Who is whipping up the frenzy on these cases and why?

I think you're having trouble seeing the forest for the trees... This is why we profile blacks. Of those "hundreds of murders this week" how many were committed by blacks? THAT is your answer... THAT is why "we" profile black youths. A white person kills and it makes the news. A black kills and it's one of hundreds this week.

A white person would have stopped and said..."Hi, my name is XXXX and I'm here visiting my fathers girlfriend" when confronted by neighborhood watch. They wouldn't have been skulking and evading which is what the evidence showed Martin did. It was his ACTIONS that caused the escalation. Do you run and hide when neighborhood watch drives by? Why did he? I predisposes guilt.

[Golfingnut]

I think you're having trouble seeing the forest for the trees... This is why we profile blacks. Of those "hundreds of murders this week" how many were committed by blacks? THAT is your answer... THAT is why "we" profile black youths. A white person kills and it makes the news. A black kills and it's one of hundreds this week.

A white person would have stopped and said..."Hi, my name is XXXX and I'm here visiting my fathers girlfriend" when confronted by neighborhood watch. They wouldn't have been skulking and evading which is what the evidence showed Martin did. It was his ACTIONS that caused the escalation. Do you run and hide when neighborhood watch drives by? Why did he? I predisposes guilt.

I see it much differently than this. If Martin was white, Zimmerman would not have paid any attention to Him. I would be wary of anyone in a hoody, but that should not have convicted and killed him. Why didn't Zimmerman say, Excuse me, I am community watch for this community, could I speak with you a minute please. You must understand, Martin had more right to be there than Zimmerman had right to follow him. I see Zimmerman as the creepy individual in that situation.

[Monkei]

I think you're having trouble seeing the forest for the trees... This is why we profile blacks. Of those "hundreds of murders this week" how many were committed by blacks? THAT is your answer... THAT is why "we" profile black youths. A white person kills and it makes the news. A black kills and it's one of hundreds this week.

A white person would have stopped and said..."Hi, my name is XXXX and I'm here visiting my fathers girlfriend" when confronted by neighborhood watch. They wouldn't have been skulking and evading which is what the evidence showed Martin did. It was his ACTIONS that caused the escalation. Do you run and hide when neighborhood watch drives by? Why did he? I predisposes guilt.

Lets just throw the Constitution and Bill of Rights out the window.

[PaPaLarry]

MY opinion. You do not understand the Zimmerman case very well. The issue of arrest was a LEGAL ONE, not a social issue. The investigation was totally derailed while the police did exactly what they get payed for and well within the law (investigate the law as it pertained to this incident) It was all about the interpetation of the STAND YOUR GROUND law......so why was not the LAW allowed to handle this. The investigation was not complete in a time that satisfied the political folks using this horrendous crime. I am not a lawyer thus I cannot speak as intelligently on the law as you seem to feel you can. I know that once it became a MSNBC issue, the law was violated by politicians in Sanford allowing tapes to be heard by the family with no police presence...sort of unheard of. I know once the POTUS spoke up, the investigation fell apart.

So......lets call it what is was...a POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY...plain and simple.

The links below are just two crimes that seem a bit more racial than the Zimmerman trial, but no demonstrations...no outrage...and again, I am not an attorney so cannot speak to what is right and wrong as you feel you can but no matter how you say things are not happening, they are in fact happening.

And I am always impressed when someone can speak with such authority as you do ...."There would have been no stalking and no fight if Travon had been white.". That distinct unfettered knowledge would have been invaluable in court !!

JULY 27 2013

"Adams Morgan hate crime was motivated by Zimmerman verdict, police say
By Nicole Chavez and Stefanie Dazio,July 27, 2013

A Bethesda man was beaten and robbed early Saturday morning in Adams Morgan by three men who yelled, “This is for Trayvon Martin,” before attacking him, police said.

The incident is being investigated as a hate crime and robbery, according to D.C. police spokesman Araz Alali.

Three black men approached an adult white male from behind while he was walking in the 1700 block of Euclid Street NW at 1:26 a.m. Saturday, police said."

Adams Morgan hate crime was motivated by Zimmerman verdict, police say - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-27/local/40864655_1_hate-crime-three-perpetrators-trayvon-martin)


AUGUST 15

"Ray Widstrand, 26, who was jumped and beaten in a huge African-American gang of 40-to-50 people two weeks ago in St. Paul, Minnesota, has been taken out of a medically-induced coma after experiencing potentially-fatal brain swelling, according to a KSTP News report on Tuesay. At this time, Widstrand remains in stable yet critical condition. "

Ray Winstrand beat by blacks: Authorities won't call it a racial hate crime - National Conservative | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/white-beat-by-black-gang-authorities-refuse-calling-it-a-hate-crime)

I pray all this crap ends but until folks stop feeling compelled to say what they hear instead of actually finding out what happened, we are stuck in this continual political turmoil and that is what it is. Had the family not contacted CRUMP, NOT for legal advice, but for PR advice, who knows...maybe even an arrest and conviction. The investigation and crime became so contaminated never could justice be served. Justice was never given a chance.

Editing to add this and not sure if the end is where but...

We are a country of LAWS, not men !!!!
Intelligently said!!! Country of laws, not men!!!

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