Obama to seek congressional approval on Syria

[Madelaine Amee]

That's a step in the right direction! Also, need to wait for the report from the Inspectors who have been into Syria. Personally, I am against getting involved in this conflict ................. I believe it to be a no win situation.

[Tracy1581]

I'm not so sure we should be waiting 9 days to have this debate. Congress should be ordered immediately to discuss this situation. It should have taken place immediately many days ago. This will give 9 days to Syria to hide weapons, etc... Anything can happen in 9 days and by delaying something so urgent, how does the world perceive our leadership now?

I think the President has boxed himself in a corner on this one.

[Topspinmo]

Go move by the demo's with many seats up for grabs next year make them stick their foot in there mouths with their votes so there will be no Monday morning Quarterbacking like the last two wars. IMO I don't think he can get the votes? As far as my opinion I don't think we need to be the world police anymore. IMO we need to get out of NATO, UN, Quit giving billions in foreign Aid till we can balance budget, Bring 90 % of all troops stationed overseas till we can Balance budget. Cease all wars till we have money to pay for them.. IMO time for someone in the region to step up to the plate. Course no batter's in that region give rats@zz what goes on in other countries but us. . By the way I am not repub or demo's. I think parties get in the road of will of the people due to party line voting:boom:. I am sure this will be zapped

[janmcn]

I'm not so sure we should be waiting 9 days to have this debate. Congress should be ordered immediately to discuss this situation. It should have taken place immediately many days ago. This will give 9 days to Syria to hide weapons, etc... Anything can happen in 9 days and by delaying something so urgent, how does the world perceive our leadership now?

I think the President has boxed himself in a corner on this one.


Congress can order itself into session at any time. There are some rumblings that the Senate will do just that, but no word from Speaker Boehner.

[gomoho]

Pathetic - why wouldn't they just bring themselves back early.

[davecz1]

The powers in place as well as the rebels are not friends of ours. Stay out of it. Let them settle their own crap. Enough already.

[Tracy1581]

If we do NOTHING aren't we sending a signal to Syria, Iran, No Korea they are accountable to NO ONE?? Beware your enemies who no longer FEAR you and your allies who no longer support you.

[ilovetv]

I'm not so sure we should be waiting 9 days to have this debate. Congress should be ordered immediately to discuss this situation. It should have taken place immediately many days ago. This will give 9 days to Syria to hide weapons, etc... Anything can happen in 9 days and by delaying something so urgent, how does the world perceive our leadership now?

I think the President has boxed himself in a corner on this one.

This dilly dallying around is exactly what went on in Iraq. While the UN inspectors were waiting....and waiting.....and waiting some more to come in thru the front door with Saddam's permission and red carpet, the WMD were going out the back door. DUH!!!!!!

Who gives their enemy so much notice of what, when, where, how long, how intense, etc.????

Or are the politicians purposely waiting 9 days, so the chemical weaponry in Syria CAN be moved, hauled out and hidden, so they can then say, "We're not going to attack because there were no WMD." The stink still rises from the hindsight claims of "no WMD in Iraq", so my bet is the politicians here are gambling on a chance to say there are none.....give themselves an out. It's all a game to these pols.

[kittygilchrist]

Obama may have been advised that more complex and intensive military intervention is needed than initially was apparent, requiring congressional approval to engage at that level.

[Bucco]

Does anyone know exactly what congress will be asked to vote on ?

[zcaveman]

Obama may have been advised that more complex and intensive military intervention is needed than initially was apparent, requiring congressional approval to engage at that level.

Why are you so for our intervention?

Z

[Tracy1581]

whether or not to give them a warning- sort of a pinprick type move

[kittygilchrist]

Why are you so for our intervention?

Z

https://www.facebook.com/the.children.of.syria

Click a few videos...

[Bucco]

whether or not to give them a warning- sort of a pinprick type move

If that is what they will vote on....well, lets just say....the President said he does not need this authorization.....how specific will the resolution be...how can you vote for something so nebulous ? Is this simply to play more politics ?

[DianeM]

To me this just seems to be wrong. We have NO business in another country's political unrest. Would anyone come to our aide if the North went against the South again? Hell no. We need to get a grip. We are hated and we need to stop being "big brother". Seems like we're setting up for another Vietnam.

[l2ridehd]

Lets try to understand the problem. Obama drew a line in the sand and said chemical weapons would result in harsh consequences. Probably a mistake, but he said it and that is now behind us. Ashad used chemical weapons to kill his own people, including women and children. Do we want to accept that? I agree this is a no win conflict, but should we act or not? Obama now wants a get out of jail card. He saw what happened in the UK Parliament. So the British PM is off the hook. Maybe he wants the same out.

Now the problem. Syria is watching to see if we act. If we don't, they will continue until they murder thousands. Iran is watching and seeing if our "red line in the sand" is real so they can do what they want with regard to nuclear weapons. Israel is watching to see if we act so they know what to do about Iran. If we do anything it is a losers game. If we do nothing, how do you think Israel will act to take out Iran's nuclear capability? Think they will react the same way if we don't act against Syria? I believe they will think our "we got your back" policy is worthless and decide they need to eliminate the Iran threat now. Don't think North Korea is not watching either. Syria is not the real problem. It's all the other countries who are taking our measure and making decisions that have a much more significant impact on the future.

It's amateur hour in Washington and Obama has painted himself into a corner where what ever he does is wrong. He is hoping by putting Congress in the middle there will be someone else to blame for the failed outcome. And any decision is actually a failure. So this is a true lose lose.

We should never have gotten to where we are, but unfortunately we are there. There is no good answer.

[billethkid]

first of all note the contrast in for lack of a better term "style" between the UK and the USA.
In the UK they convened an emergency session of parliament to discuss the matter.
In the USA a week later we decide to wait until congress finishes it's vacation.
Now just how urgent a signal is that? It isn't? It is down right pitiful especially in the face of all the tough talk from Kerry. And WH spokesmen saying we Americans don't stand for that kind of slaughtering so you better watch out. Then announcing our guys are standing at the ready to push the button on pre selected targets. And then the notification....never mind let's wait until the holiday is over in another 9 days and the we will debate it. And we all know the debate will go on for weeks.

We as a nation deserve what we are getting internationally. Our allies are no longer so anxious to support us. Our enemies know they can walk all over us ala Bengazi, Syria, Iran, NKorea, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.

We have in fact devolved into a paper tiger and the pupeteers growl scares no one.

Lastly wanna make a bet....when the folks do get back from vacation there will be the negotiation to extend the deadline on the budget once again....in trade for vote support.

That terrible smell is P_O_L_I_T_I_C_S at it's worst/best.

Shameful and disgusting display of indifference.

btk

[rp001]

We don't belong there period..These folks have been killing each other for thousands of years and we ARE NOT the great deciders as to who is right or wrong..As a Vietnam vet I say stay the hell out and stop using our younger generation as cannon fodder in these backwards countries. It's time to circle the wagons and take care of this country and stop trying to dictate to the rest of the world with our bullying tactics. I highly doubt that our political "leaders" will be sacrificing their children on this next little adventure.

[kittygilchrist]

Expert: Video proves Syria's chemical weapons use - YouTube (http://youtu.be/O5bM8kTOsOk)

Not saying this really happened...as a former child abuse professional, I respect the expert's testimony that a 5 year old could not be coached to..."

[Irishmen]

Only one to gain from any attack will be Raytheon. I wonder How the stock performed last couple of weeks. Hmmmmmm.....

[DianeM]

We don't belong there period..These folks have been killing each other for thousands of years and we ARE NOT the great deciders as to who is right or wrong..As a Vietnam vet I say stay the hell out and stop using our younger generation as cannon fodder in these backwards countries. It's time to circle the wagons and take care of this country and stop trying to dictate to the rest of the world with our bullying tactics. I highly doubt that these political "leaders" will be sacrificing their children on this next little adventure.

AMEN! :BigApplause:

[zcaveman]

https://www.facebook.com/the.children.of.syria

Click a few videos...

I don't need to see the videos. I read the newspaper. I know what is going on over there.

Does this mean that you also want to back into Iraq to fix the problem with all of the women and children they are killing there?

We have the Syrian government on one side and the rebels supported by Al Qaeda on the other side. We should not support either side.

These people live to kill each other. A few bombs by us are not going to change that. It might give Iran and North Korea a reason to "help" Syria retaliate.

Z

[kittygilchrist]

I don't need to see the videos. I read the newspaper. I know what is going on over there.

Does this mean that you also want to back into Iraq to fix the problem with all of the women and children they are killing there?

We have the Syrian government on one side and the rebels supported by Al Qaeda on the other side. We should not support either side.

These people live to kill each other. A few bombs by us are not going to change that. It might give Iran and North Korea a reason to "help" Syria retaliate.

Z

Status of world participation in the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons:

http://www.opcw.org/index.php?eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=13069

[njbchbum]

does anyone really believe that the potus wants to take any kind of military action in this issue? he realizes he shot his mouth off and put his back to the wall; and a congressional thumbs down gets him off the hook. this delay of waiting for congress to return from vacation is all the delay he needs to a] come up with another crisis or scandal on which to refocus the general public and b] campaign with members of the senate and congress to vote no when they return to vote.

this is a humanitarian issue - not a threat to the u.s. of a. let the potus rally the u.n. to take over and address refugee issues for the syrians in another country.

[Markam]

I just hope the Syrians don't force our hand by unleashing another salvo of gas filled missiles before Congress has concluded their deliberations.

[justjim]

Obama critics are having a field day with this issue. It's a no win situation for President Obama and the U.S. My opinion is that we need to stay out of Syria period. We should stay out of the civil wars that take place in that part of the world. There is no way we can "win"----just get some more of our young men and women killed or wounded. Not to mention the Billions spent for a lost cause. Back Israel,but other than doing that, stay out of the mess. Our resources can best be spent protecting the homeland.

[wendyquat]

Boy, our moderator must be on vacation! Oh well, while the cats away -- how would we like it if another country bombed us for aborting too many babies? A child is a child!

[billethkid]

Boy, our moderator must be on vacation! Oh well, while the cats away -- how would we like it if another country bombed us for aborting too many babies? A child is a child!

Not really.

It is and has been a civil discusion about a current event that has potential to affect all our lives. Opinions expressed and respected...JUST LIKE ANY OTHER THREAD.

Enough with the political bogey man stuff.

btk

[kittygilchrist]

It was suggested that we back Israel and stay out of the middle east. I visited Israel in 1992 and was struck by how quickly we travelled from one end to the other.
In terms of area, Florida could hold the nation four times over.
Click the map to enlarge.

[graciegirl]

Lets try to understand the problem. Obama drew a line in the sand and said chemical weapons would result in harsh consequences. Probably a mistake, but he said it and that is now behind us. Ashad used chemical weapons to kill his own people, including women and children. Do we want to accept that? I agree this is a no win conflict, but should we act or not? Obama now wants a get out of jail card. He saw what happened in the UK Parliament. So the British PM is off the hook. Maybe he wants the same out.

Now the problem. Syria is watching to see if we act. If we don't, they will continue until they murder thousands. Iran is watching and seeing if our "red line in the sand" is real so they can do what they want with regard to nuclear weapons. Israel is watching to see if we act so they know what to do about Iran. If we do anything it is a losers game. If we do nothing, how do you think Israel will act to take out Iran's nuclear capability? Think they will react the same way if we don't act against Syria? I believe they will think our "we got your back" policy is worthless and decide they need to eliminate the Iran threat now. Don't think North Korea is not watching either. Syria is not the real problem. It's all the other countries who are taking our measure and making decisions that have a much more significant impact on the future.

It's amateur hour in Washington and Obama has painted himself into a corner where what ever he does is wrong. He is hoping by putting Congress in the middle there will be someone else to blame for the failed outcome. And any decision is actually a failure. So this is a true lose lose.

We should never have gotten to where we are, but unfortunately we are there. There is no good answer.

What you just posted is very reasonable and logical to me.

[Monkei]

Obama is between a rock and a hard place on this one. If he does not act and Syria gasses again his head is on the chopping block. If he does act and Syria retaliates by gassing again his head in the block. It's a tuff place for this president who has endured so much at home to be placed in. He is in a tuff spot on this one. You could not pay me enough to have his job.

What I do find funny, however, is the country who took all the crap during the last administration, France, is with us this time. I guess the congress can rename the American fries back to their real name, French Fries. Oh how I long for the days when the congress could actually agree on something like changing the name of starchy potato sticks.

[kittygilchrist]

Syrian defector: Assad using chemical weapons - Israel News, Ynetnews (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4189238,00.html)
This article is from Feb. 2012 regarding Syrian defector who says chemical warfare was done under supervision by Russia and Iran.

[AriaGrandparents2013]

Lets try to understand the problem. Obama drew a line in the sand and said chemical weapons would result in harsh consequences. Probably a mistake, but he said it and that is now behind us. Ashad used chemical weapons to kill his own people, including women and children. Do we want to accept that? I agree this is a no win conflict, but should we act or not? Obama now wants a get out of jail card. He saw what happened in the UK Parliament. So the British PM is off the hook. Maybe he wants the same out.

Now the problem. Syria is watching to see if we act. If we don't, they will continue until they murder thousands. Iran is watching and seeing if our "red line in the sand" is real so they can do what they want with regard to nuclear weapons. Israel is watching to see if we act so they know what to do about Iran. If we do anything it is a losers game. If we do nothing, how do you think Israel will act to take out Iran's nuclear capability? Think they will react the same way if we don't act against Syria? I believe they will think our "we got your back" policy is worthless and decide they need to eliminate the Iran threat now. Don't think North Korea is not watching either. Syria is not the real problem. It's all the other countries who are taking our measure and making decisions that have a much more significant impact on the future.

It's amateur hour in Washington and Obama has painted himself into a corner where what ever he does is wrong. He is hoping by putting Congress in the middle there will be someone else to blame for the failed outcome. And any decision is actually a failure. So this is a true lose lose.

We should never have gotten to where we are, but unfortunately we are there. There is no good answer.

Well stated.

[Madelaine Amee]

I don't need to see the videos. I read the newspaper. I know what is going on over there.

Does this mean that you also want to back into Iraq to fix the problem with all of the women and children they are killing there?

We have the Syrian government on one side and the rebels supported by Al Qaeda on the other side. We should not support either side.

These people live to kill each other. A few bombs by us are not going to change that. It might give Iran and North Korea a reason to "help" Syria retaliate.

Z

When I see any sign that these middle eastern countries are prepared to reject Al Qaeda themselves without help from the rest of the world, then I would agree with us helping. Until that time I say NO to getting involved in any more of these tribal wars.

Show me that you want to move out of the dark ages and into the 21st century and live like civilized human beings, allow the woman that want to - to not live in purdah, allow their female children to be educated (if they so wish) and treat their women with dignity instead of beasts of burden, then I would agree to us helping them in any way we can.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only way to have peace in the middle east is for these people to live under a dictator. Every country where we have taken out the dictator has fallen into chaos.

I have never felt this way before, but the loss of life and limb from the Iraq debacle has changed my opinion on many things.

[rp001]

When I see any sign that these middle eastern countries are prepared to reject Al Qaeda themselves without help from the rest of the world, then I would agree with us helping. Until that time I say NO to getting involved in any more of these tribal wars.

Show me that you want to move out of the dark ages and into the 21st century and live like civilized human beings, allow the woman that want to - to not live in purdah, allow their female children to be educated (if they so wish) and treat their women with dignity instead of beasts of burden, then I would agree to us helping them in any way we can.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only way to have peace in the middle east is for these people to live under a dictator. Every country where we have taken out the dictator has fallen into chaos.

I have never felt this way before, but the loss of life and limb from the Iraq debacle has changed my opinion on many things.


And to add to this, can anyone think of any country that we have "liberated" that has remained a democracy or that has even embraced our views on freedom. It seems to me that these dictators appreciate us much more than the "freely elected" leaders that are subsequently installed do. From Cuba on, it is time for us to learn the hard lesson, we are not the "great deciders" and we need to start taking care of our own. Stop pandering to the Corporate Political War Machines in this country. They never met a war they didn't love. And as Ike put it," Beware of the Military Industrial Complex".

[nitehawk]

I am guessing that Syria is not celebrating the Jewish holiday and will have time to move or hide what ever - congress will not convene due to Jewish holidays - waiting for results of votes - who voted for what and who did not vote or voted against ---- does not matter --- Monday morning quarter backs - will be on the talk shows

[Bucco]

Syrian defector: Assad using chemical weapons - Israel News, Ynetnews (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4189238,00.html)
This article is from Feb. 2012 regarding Syrian defector who says chemical warfare was done under supervision by Russia and Iran.

This situation has been ongoing for years. Well over 100,000 people killed and gas was used before, yet we have ignored for all those years. We DID know about it.

I will be curious how those anti war, anti military folks will vote, but FIRST what exactly will they be voting on ?

[Kelsie52]

Lets try to understand the problem. Obama drew a line in the sand and said chemical weapons would result in harsh consequences. Probably a mistake, but he said it and that is now behind us. Ashad used chemical weapons to kill his own people, including women and children. Do we want to accept that? I agree this is a no win conflict, but should we act or not? Obama now wants a get out of jail card. He saw what happened in the UK Parliament. So the British PM is off the hook. Maybe he wants the same out.

Now the problem. Syria is watching to see if we act. If we don't, they will continue until they murder thousands. Iran is watching and seeing if our "red line in the sand" is real so they can do what they want with regard to nuclear weapons. Israel is watching to see if we act so they know what to do about Iran. If we do anything it is a losers game. If we do nothing, how do you think Israel will act to take out Iran's nuclear capability? Think they will react the same way if we don't act against Syria? I believe they will think our "we got your back" policy is worthless and decide they need to eliminate the Iran threat now. Don't think North Korea is not watching either. Syria is not the real problem. It's all the other countries who are taking our measure and making decisions that have a much more significant impact on the future.

It's amateur hour in Washington and Obama has painted himself into a corner where what ever he does is wrong. He is hoping by putting Congress in the middle there will be someone else to blame for the failed outcome. And any decision is actually a failure. So this is a true lose lose.

We should never have gotten to where we are, but unfortunately we are there. There is no good answer.


You hit the nail on the head . He made a statement about the red line and knew it was not true . He was trying to talk tough on foreign policy. He does have the power for the strike but didnt take it because he wanted the Congress and the American people to be part of it !!! are you kidding!!
The President does not want to strike (and I agree with that --we do not belong there )


He didnt wait for anyone when he decided to not enforce laws concerning illegals he does not listen to Congress or the American people when we ask for answers about Bengazi, IRS or fast and furious.

He sees this decision as putting himself in a winning situtation --If no strike is voted by Congress he can say he wanted to but they got in the way again --if they vote to strike and it goes wrong --Congress agreed --If it works out well --"I did it"

This President will go down in history with famos phrases of other before him : We have nothing to fear but fear itself ,Ask not what you country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country .

His will be : You can keep your Doctor and you rates will go down.

In case anyone is monitoring our internet posts ,,This is my humble opinion --I still think that is legal....:rant-rave:

[Tracy1581]

Obama is between a rock and a hard place on this one. If he does not act and Syria gasses again his head is on the chopping block. If he does act and Syria retaliates by gassing again his head in the block. It's a tuff place for this president who has endured so much at home to be placed in. He is in a tuff spot on this one. You could not pay me enough to have his job.

What I do find funny, however, is the country who took all the crap during the last administration, France, is with us this time. I guess the congress can rename the American fries back to their real name, French Fries. Oh how I long for the days when the congress could actually agree on something like changing the name of starchy potato sticks.

If he is in between a rock and a hard place it's because he made the statement a year ago about crossing the RED LINE and then NOT following through on it. You cannot pretend your going to do something and then do NOTHING. Mixed signals to our allies and enemies is a huge mistake. As is taking 9-10 days to get Congress together while you leave for a tee time. I don't find funny the fact that none of our allies will stand by us. They are just as confused as everyone else. We are in desperate need of a leader in foreign affairs. This whole situation is critical and NOT calling Congress for an emergency meeting is another mistake that may be very costly.

[janmcn]

If he is in between a rock and a hard place it's because he made the statement a year ago about crossing the RED LINE and then NOT following through on it. You cannot pretend your going to do something and then do NOTHING. Mixed signals to our allies and enemies is a huge mistake. As is taking 9-10 days to get Congress together while you leave for a tee time. I don't find funny the fact that none of our allies will stand by us. They are just as confused as everyone else. We are in desperate need of a leader in foreign affairs. This whole situation is critical and NOT calling Congress for an emergency meeting is another mistake that may be very costly.


Both houses of congress have the ability to call themselves into an emergency session. Some rumblings that the senate may do just that, but nothing from Speaker Boehner.

There is only one way to change leaders in foreign affairs, but that train has left the station.

[Bucco]

Both houses of congress have the ability to call themselves into an emergency session. Some rumblings that the senate may do just that, but nothing from Speaker Boehner.

There is only one way to change leaders in foreign affairs, but that train has left the station.

Serious question...

Why hurry ?

President will be in Russia this coming week, and he is the most important person in the debate ? Doesn't he have to explain what he intends to do, and hopefully it is not just phoned in.

This is not new...this is a few years old. Not sure why anyone would hurry except to make some obscure political points.

Actually the g20 is Thursday and Friday and then add travel..so why call everyone back

[Bucco]

I'm not so sure we should be waiting 9 days to have this debate. Congress should be ordered immediately to discuss this situation. It should have taken place immediately many days ago. This will give 9 days to Syria to hide weapons, etc... Anything can happen in 9 days and by delaying something so urgent, how does the world perceive our leadership now?

I think the President has boxed himself in a corner on this one.

The President, the centerpiece of all of this, is in Russia this coming week.

Not surprised the senate will come back and vote without him...they passed many things without reading them.

I would be critical of the House IF the President was available..he needs to make his case and explain what he intends to do

[Suzi]

If I recall correctly, our current president was against (even voted against) going into Iraq even with a much larger coalition of other countries. I believe he is a muslim and does not want to be involved with any attacks on any muslim country. In this case, America has no skin in the game, our good name has already been smeared over the last couple of years - jumping in to improve that image is useless. According to the news, an American poll puts 50% want us to "do something". 44% do not want us to intervene. I don't put much stock in polls - so much depends on the way a question is asked over the phone. I am firmly against any military intervention.

[donb9006]

We're being lied to...again...just like all the other times. When will people learn?

There's money to be made in war. Debt limits get thrown out the window during war.

[patfla06]

I'm just tired of seeing the U.S. as the "world's policemen."
We put our troops at risk for countries that hate us to begin
with and never appreciate our efforts.

We need to stay out of other countries problems!
We never seem to have an understanding of the problems
To begin with.

I am empathetic with populations/countries that do not
have our democracy and freedom.

That being said DEMOCRACY does NOT WORK with people
who do not believe in the sanctity of life.

We need to stay out of Syria!

[Bucco]

I'm just tired of seeing the U.S. as the "world's policemen."
We put our troops at risk for countries that hate us to begin
with and never appreciate our efforts.

We need to stay out of other countries problems!
We never seem to have an understanding of the problems
To begin with.

I am empathetic with populations/countries that do not
have our democracy and freedom.

That being said DEMOCRACY does NOT WORK with people
who do not believe in the sanctity of life.

We need to stay out of Syria!

Generally speaking I have been against all this action, inaction, whatever and can make a case, but what makes this more confusing is that I can also make a case for using military.

Syria and Iran are allies. Iran has also these same weapons....disregarding what Syria has done will embolden Iran. Why we did not step up earlier is a good question. Remember the President has drawn a few red lines with Iran also.

Also, keep in mind, it is frustrating being the cops, but with power comes responsibility. We have lost much respect the past few years in the middle east and while we should not be involved in other countries internal problems, can anyone say that this "problem" stays internal ? So many countries are backed and allies of Al Queda and have a known goal of bringing the worst of weapon to our shores. Do we embolden them and just allow them to continue.

As I said, I honestly can make a case on either side.

I do not in any way feel that action is required because we are "good guys" and to send a message to the world, etc. This has been going on for years.....well over 100,000 people have died....men, women and children. A lot of war crimes have been committed in that time and all we did was give it very small lip service.

What will swing how I feel is hearing, and I have yet to hear it, is EXACTLY what the President plans to do. I am still not clear on that. I do not know what it means to "hold the regime responsible"....does that mean topple the regime ? If so, that is more than a few missel strikes. That I still do not understand.

I am on board with both Senate and Congress debating and voting, but oppose any kind of political games which are beginning. The President MUST be part of this debate....MUST.

[Taltarzac725]

Serious question...

Why hurry ?

President will be in Russia this coming week, and he is the most important person in the debate ? Doesn't he have to explain what he intends to do, and hopefully it is not just phoned in.

This is not new...this is a few years old. Not sure why anyone would hurry except to make some obscure political points.

Actually the g20 is Thursday and Friday and then add travel..so why call everyone back

BBC News - Syria crisis: David Cameron supports Obama's stance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23917290)

I believe that the Obama Adminstration should consider the consequences of a strike on Syria very carefully before taking any military action and should try to get as much consensus as possible in these actions. Cannot see how and why the Syrian regime could hide chemical weapons as there are probably quite a number of satellites and other intelligence gathering agents targeting Syria from many countries which have an interest in that region-- Russia, China, the United States, the UK, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, etc.

[Bucco]

BBC News - Syria crisis: David Cameron supports Obama's stance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23917290)

I believe that the Obama Adminstration should consider the consequences of a strike on Syria very carefully before taking any military action and should try to get as much consensus as possible in these actions. Cannot see how and why the Syrian regime could hide chemical weapons as there are probably quite a number of satellites and other intelligence gathering agents targeting Syria from many countries which have an interest in that region-- Russia, China, the United States, the UK, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, etc.

Syria and chemical weapons is not new. They have had them for many many years and we know exactly where they are. Same with N Korea an others.

Getting consensus is good...the stumbling, bumbling up to here was not so good.

As long as they do not allow this to become totally political.

[kittygilchrist]

israelnationnews.com (http://www.israelnationnews.com) click arutz sheva
Arab League Ministers to Call for Syria Strike

Report: Ministers will issue a call for destruction of Assad's defenses, to open way for Free Syria Army.



By Arutz Sheva
First Publish: 9/1/2013, 4:08 PM (middle eastern time)


Arab League meeting in Cairo

The foreign ministers of the Arab League, who are convening in Cairo, are expected to adopt a resolution in support of “any military attack” against the Syrian regime, according to Maariv.


Specifically, the foreign ministers will call for a military action to destroy the Assad regime's defense arrays, in order to open the way to the conquest of Syria by the Free Syria Army.


The Arab League has been discussing the crisis in Syria at a closed-door meeting in Cairo since Sunday morning. Ambassador-level talks were followed by the foreign ministers' meeting that was scheduled to start in the afternoon.


The meeting had been scheduled for Tuesday, but was advanced to Sunday "in light of rapid developments in the Syria situation and based on the request of several Arab states", Ahmed Ben Helli, Arab League deputy chief, said on Saturday.


Al Jazeera reported that Ahmed Aljarba, the head of the Syrian National Council (SNC), the opposition umbrella group backed by the West and Arab states, would be giving a speech at the foreign ministers' meeting


During the ambassadors' session, permanent representatives condemned the August 21 chemical weapons massacre at Ghota al Sharkiya, calling it a "horrible crime carried out with internationally prohibited chemical weapons", and placed the "entire responsibility" on President Bashar al-Assad's government.


The Arab League suspended Syria's membership in 2011 after Assad's government failed to abide by an Arab peace plan that aimed to end the conflict in Syria. In March, the 22-member organization offered Syria's seat to the SNC and decided to let its member nations arm the rebels battling Assad's government.


John Kerry, the US secretary of state, mentioned the Arab League among a list of allies "ready to respond" to the alleged chemical-weapons attack.


However, Arab League members such as Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and Tunisia, which have faced recent internal conflicts of their own, were opposed to foreign intervention.

[kittygilchrist]

http://http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/09/20139114581262102.html
Report that Saudi Arabia backs US strike.

[DianeM]

I'm sorry Kitty but I don't believe we will be supported if we partake in this folly. Let the Saudis strike first and we can follow them for a change.

[Bucco]

israelnationnews.com (http://www.israelnationnews.com) click arutz sheva
Arab League Ministers to Call for Syria Strike

Report: Ministers will issue a call for destruction of Assad's defenses, to open way for Free Syria Army.



By Arutz Sheva
First Publish: 9/1/2013, 4:08 PM (middle eastern time)


Arab League meeting in Cairo

The foreign ministers of the Arab League, who are convening in Cairo, are expected to adopt a resolution in support of “any military attack” against the Syrian regime, according to Maariv.


Specifically, the foreign ministers will call for a military action to destroy the Assad regime's defense arrays, in order to open the way to the conquest of Syria by the Free Syria Army.


The Arab League has been discussing the crisis in Syria at a closed-door meeting in Cairo since Sunday morning. Ambassador-level talks were followed by the foreign ministers' meeting that was scheduled to start in the afternoon.


The meeting had been scheduled for Tuesday, but was advanced to Sunday "in light of rapid developments in the Syria situation and based on the request of several Arab states", Ahmed Ben Helli, Arab League deputy chief, said on Saturday.


Al Jazeera reported that Ahmed Aljarba, the head of the Syrian National Council (SNC), the opposition umbrella group backed by the West and Arab states, would be giving a speech at the foreign ministers' meeting


During the ambassadors' session, permanent representatives condemned the August 21 chemical weapons massacre at Ghota al Sharkiya, calling it a "horrible crime carried out with internationally prohibited chemical weapons", and placed the "entire responsibility" on President Bashar al-Assad's government.


The Arab League suspended Syria's membership in 2011 after Assad's government failed to abide by an Arab peace plan that aimed to end the conflict in Syria. In March, the 22-member organization offered Syria's seat to the SNC and decided to let its member nations arm the rebels battling Assad's government.


John Kerry, the US secretary of state, mentioned the Arab League among a list of allies "ready to respond" to the alleged chemical-weapons attack.


However, Arab League members such as Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and Tunisia, which have faced recent internal conflicts of their own, were opposed to foreign intervention.

Part of destroying the Assad regime is what you get in return. Be wary of how we can get played by Al Queda.....do not look at the rebels as a bunch of good guys here.

This is a very tough situation. I totally understand both sides of what I hope will be a non political debate without the games

[kittygilchrist]

'Every possible scenario': Israel readies anti-missile defenses for probable Syrian strike ? RT News (http://rt.com/news/israel-possible-syria-defense-268/)

Poll reports 2/3 of Israelis support US strike.

[kittygilchrist]

I'm sorry Kitty but I don't believe we will be supported if we partake in this folly. Let the Saudis strike first and we can follow them for a change.

Hi Diane, the point is not for the Saudis to militarily come in...I think they have no interest in destabilizing relations further between Arab nations.
The point was to say that the Arab League opposes chemical warfare to counter black and white thinking about Muslims.
Some folks are saying things like:
Muslims/Arabs just want to kill each other and...
Obama is a Muslim so he wouldn't kill a Muslim (except Bin Laden?)--

Not all Muslims/Arabs are terrorists. Our blindly thinking of them all as enemies just wears me out.

[rp001]

'Every possible scenario': Israel readies anti-missile defenses for probable Syrian strike ? RT News (http://rt.com/news/israel-possible-syria-defense-268/)

Poll reports 2/3 of Israelis support US strike.

And at what point did it become Israel's call as to whether or not we strike another country? How many of the pro war folks on here have actually been in or fought a war? It is easy to say, "Let's hit them" but remember this, those body bags that will be coming home will be our younger generation. This is an expense I for one am not willing to bear, under these conditions. Frankly I don't care what the Saudis or the Israelis support, I'm for supporting OUR needs, not theirs.

[Bucco]

And at what point did it become Israel's call as to whether or not we strike another country? How many of the pro war folks on here have actually been in or fought a war? It is easy to say, "Let's hit them" but remember this, those body bags that will be coming home will be our younger generation. This is an expense I for one am not willing to bear, under these conditions. Frankly I don't care what the Saudis or the Israelis support, I'm for supporting OUR needs, not theirs.

You folks are getting carried away.

I need to hear EXACTLY what the President has in mind..specifics. Last I heard there would be NO...ZERO troops on the ground.

As far as Israel, keep in mind....they are surrounded by these guys. They will always want to bring them down and limit what they can do. They KNOW that if we strike, they will get hit in retaliation, but still favor a hit.

AND allow me, as much as you do not want to hear it, every decision we make in the middle east considered Israel. Not their polls, but their security. EVERY decision made in the middle east.

[l2ridehd]

Kitty, your news source is blatantly clouding the real picture. For starters calling the rebels the "Free Syria Army" is a farce. The are funded, provided arms, support and led by Al Queda. That is who will run Syria if they win.

As for the Arab league support, yes they will be completely behind it. Why? because having Al Queda run Syria is much better for them then having Assad run Syria. However I bet they will vote for support in principal and not commit one peso or person to the effort.

Why does Israel support a US strike? They want to know we will follow through with our commitments in any Middle East conflict. They also want those chemical weapons destroyed before they fall into the hands of Al Queda. And to let Iran know we will follow through on our "do not allow nuclear arms" commitment to Israel.

Our leadership in Washington has bungled this beyond belief. It is an utter and complete failure of our foreign policy.

[Bucco]

Kitty, your news source is blatantly clouding the real picture. For starters calling the rebels the "Free Syria Army" is a farce. The are funded, provided arms, support and led by Al Queda. That is who will run Syria if they win.

As for the Arab league support, yes they will be completely behind it. Why? because having Al Queda run Syria is much better for them then having Assad run Syria. However I bet they will vote for support in principal and not commit one peso or person to the effort.

Why does Israel support a US strike? They want to know we will follow through with our commitments in any Middle East conflict. They also want those chemical weapons destroyed before they fall into the hands of Al Queda. And to let Iran know we will follow through on our "do not allow nuclear arms" commitment to Israel.

Our leadership in Washington has bungled this beyond belief. It is an utter and complete failure of our foreign policy.

On all of this I can agree with you, especially on the questionable sources that the fact of the make up of those we will help with a strike.

[NotGolfer]

Kitty, your news source is blatantly clouding the real picture. For starters calling the rebels the "Free Syria Army" is a farce. The are funded, provided arms, support and led by Al Queda. That is who will run Syria if they win.

As for the Arab league support, yes they will be completely behind it. Why? because having Al Queda run Syria is much better for them then having Assad run Syria. However I bet they will vote for support in principal and not commit one peso or person to the effort.

Why does Israel support a US strike? They want to know we will follow through with our commitments in any Middle East conflict. They also want those chemical weapons destroyed before they fall into the hands of Al Queda. And to let Iran know we will follow through on our "do not allow nuclear arms" commitment to Israel. Our leadership in Washington has bungled this beyond belief. It is an utter and complete failure of our foreign policy.

Well said...

"IF" we don't show support of Israel (and this goes for "any" country)....I say "God help us!!" Along with this there will always be "wars and rumors of wars"........ From the standpoint of the reasoning of men and men alone, there are NO answers.

[rp001]

I don't see this as "limited" and think it will quickly escalate. Every conflict we've ever been in starts the same way. This will only serve to embolden and consolidate the factionalized Arabs into one with a common enemy, us. We need to learn from history. Frankly I would rather see Arabs killing one another than psychotic "Jihad" against us. The only winners will the the giant military corporations that control our government, such as Halliburton, raeython (sp), etc., and the list goes on. Even Europe has not jumped on the bandwagon, perhaps they have learned a lesson we obviously have not.

[kittygilchrist]

Kitty, your news source is blatantly clouding the real picture. For starters calling the rebels the "Free Syria Army" is a farce. The are funded, provided arms, support and led by Al Queda. That is who will run Syria if they win.

As for the Arab league support, yes they will be completely behind it. Why? because having Al Queda run Syria is much better for them then having Assad run Syria. However I bet they will vote for support in principal and not commit one peso or person to the effort.

Why does Israel support a US strike? They want to know we will follow through with our commitments in any Middle East conflict. They also want those chemical weapons destroyed before they fall into the hands of Al Queda. And to let Iran know we will follow through on our "do not allow nuclear arms" commitment to Israel.

Our leadership in Washington has bungled this beyond belief. It is an utter and complete failure of our foreign policy.

Hey there. I've quoted a ton of resources...I'm not endorsing their every word, but the sources are giving me updates while CNN blathers on...

What are the sources you refer to about Syrian rebels being Al Queda?
Kitty

[rp001]

Hey there. I've quoted a ton of resources...I'm not endorsing their every word, but the sources are giving me updates while CNN blathers on...

What are the sources you refer to about Syrian rebels being Al Queda?
Kitty

Not to change the subject, but it seems to be drifting to Israel's rights of protection by the US, I'd suggest all google the USS Liberty incident where the Israelis attacked a us ship and killed 34 sailors 1 marine 1 civilian in international waters. That is the truth of war and how things escalate quickly and get totally out of hand.

[rubicon]

Beginning with Vietnam America's resolve has progressively lessen. So the last thing we needed is a president who is doing on the job training concerning our foreign policy. The president believed he could avoid the issue by drawing reference to a red line, one he never imagined would occur.
So then he prolonged it further by demanding proof which eventually came but he still maintained was definitely verifiable. IMHO who else would gain by using chemical weapons but Assad. He and Kerry both began saber rattling and then got cold feet again and decided to wait until Congress reconvened. meanwhile his Admin leaked more information to the enemy than snowden.

By the way prior to the invasion of Iraq a story appeared in the WSJ wherein they describe where Iraqi Republican Guard relieved Syrian guards at the order then departed. Did Iraq move its WMD to Syria before the invasion?
does anyone believe with so much information out there that Syria won't e well prepared and well protected

Our allies doubt our resolve and know now that they cannot rely on us.
We do have an interest in the outcome of Syria. But before we move we better be sure what we intend to do and make it effective and we better have the resolve to see it through.

[Bucco]

Beginning with Vietnam America's resolve has progressively lessen. So the last thing we needed is a president who is doing on the job training concerning our foreign policy. The president believed he could avoid the issue by drawing reference to a red line, one he never imagined would occur.
So then he prolonged it further by demanding proof which eventually came but he still maintained was definitely verifiable. IMHO who else would gain by using chemical weapons but Assad. He and Kerry both began saber rattling and then got cold feet again and decided to wait until Congress reconvened. meanwhile his Admin leaked more information to the enemy than snowden.

By the way prior to the invasion of Iraq a story appeared in the WSJ wherein they describe where Iraqi Republican Guard relieved Syrian guards at the order then departed. Did Iraq move its WMD to Syria before the invasion?
does anyone believe with so much information out there that Syria won't e well prepared and well protected

Our allies doubt our resolve and know now that they cannot rely on us.
We do have an interest in the outcome of Syria. But before we move we better be sure what we intend to do and make it effective and we better have the resolve to see it through.

First, I have read and heard of the same stories on WMD's from Iraq to Syria..a number of times.

I also concur with we better have a plan..not what we have been hearing, which is nebulous at best. This is why no hurry getting back to Washington to vote, although some with narrow vision will even make that an issue. This needs discussions and answers. The last weeks have been an embarrasment...this discussion needs to be done correctly and free of the bickering which is starting already.

[kittygilchrist]

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)
Rp, Thanks for the post..6 day war. No wonder I didn't remember that.
1967.

[kittygilchrist]

Syria - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/spotlight/syria/)

too much info for a synopsis...Arab League considerations.

[zcaveman]

Hey there. I've quoted a ton of resources...I'm not endorsing their every word, but the sources are giving me updates while CNN blathers on...

What are the sources you refer to about Syrian rebels being Al Queda?
Kitty

Google Al Qaeda in Syria. This is just one of the hits. This has been all over the news. We support the rebels all we are doing is giving arms to Al Qaeda. There are no good guys over there.

Syria and al-Qaeda: the enemy of our enemy could turn out to be our most dangerous enemy of all – Telegraph Blogs (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100233098/syria-and-al-qaeda-the-enemy-of-our-enemy-could-turn-out-to-be-our-most-dangerous-enemy-of-all/)

[kittygilchrist]

Google Al Qaeda in Syria. This is just one of the hits. This has been all over the news. We support the rebels all we are doing is giving arms to Al Qaeda. There are no good guys over there.

Syria and al-Qaeda: the enemy of our enemy could turn out to be our most dangerous enemy of all – Telegraph Blogs (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100233098/syria-and-al-qaeda-the-enemy-of-our-enemy-could-turn-out-to-be-our-most-dangerous-enemy-of-all/)

that is a blog..imo it carries equal weight as any person on totv.

[Bucco]

Google Al Qaeda in Syria. This is just one of the hits. This has been all over the news. We support the rebels all we are doing is giving arms to Al Qaeda. There are no good guys over there.

Syria and al-Qaeda: the enemy of our enemy could turn out to be our most dangerous enemy of all – Telegraph Blogs (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100233098/syria-and-al-qaeda-the-enemy-of-our-enemy-could-turn-out-to-be-our-most-dangerous-enemy-of-all/)

"“So what, we're about to become Al Qaeda's air force now?” Kucinich said. “This is a very, very serious matter that has broad implications internationally. And to try to minimize it by saying we're just going to have a 'targeted strike' — that's an act of war. It's not anything to be trifled with.”



Read more: Kucinich: Syria strike would turn US into 'al Qaeda's air force' - The Hill's Global Affairs (http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/middle-east-north-africa/319037-kucinich-syria-strike-will-turn-us-into-al-qaedas-air-force#ixzz2dfr5d27P)
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

[rubicon]

First, I have read and heard of the same stories on WMD's from Iraq to Syria..a number of times.

I also concur with we better have a plan..not what we have been hearing, which is nebulous at best. This is why no hurry getting back to Washington to vote, although some with narrow vision will even make that an issue. This needs discussions and answers. The last weeks have been an embarrasment...this discussion needs to be done correctly and free of the bickering which is starting already.

Bucco: it seems that the Executive Branch, Congress, The Pentagon, FBI/CIA have all become indecisive, forgot the admonition that "loose lips sink ships" have little resolve and otherwise are losing credibility both domestically and with the world at large. This is very dangerous because it gives the appearance of weakness. The perception of weakness in the world like in the wild, the criminal world sporting events, etc means certain literally and figuratively means certain death.

It is of paramount importance that we change that perception quickly because if we don't it will lead to our eventual demise Ask the ancient Romans

[zcaveman]

that is a blog..imo it carries equal weight as any person on totv.

You are probably one of the few that does not believe that Al Qaeda is not on the sides of the rebels. Please google Al Qaeda and Syria and read some of the hits. Also read the newspapers.

I do not want to influence you either way. Make up your own mind after reading some of the articles.

Neither side is on our side.

Z

[Bucco]

I think conversation for me is mute until I hear more from the WH. Not that I am on their mailing list, but they can't nor should share all EXCEPT with the senate or congress, and that needs to be really wide open.

What is the end game...regime change...destroy capabilities of the regime to defend itself ?

If either of those...DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHO YOU ARE HANDING THIS OVER TO ? There is actually a report on NPR that suggests the chemical attack is the work of the rebels. Is It Possible The Syrian Rebels (Not Assad) Used Chemical Weapons? : The Two-Way : NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/27/216172145/is-it-possible-the-syrian-rebels-not-assad-used-chemical-weapons)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If I recall correctly, our current president was against (even voted against) going into Iraq even with a much larger coalition of other countries. I believe he is a muslim and does not want to be involved with any attacks on any muslim country. In this case, America has no skin in the game, our good name has already been smeared over the last couple of years - jumping in to improve that image is useless. According to the news, an American poll puts 50% want us to "do something". 44% do not want us to intervene. I don't put much stock in polls - so much depends on the way a question is asked over the phone. I am firmly against any military intervention.
As far as the president being a Muslim, I think that that kind of talk is ridiculous and divisive. I'm not a big fan of this president and his policies or some of the decisions he made but I'd prefer to stick with substance rather than rhetoric.
Sitting in the senate it's pretty easy to vote against the president. It's especially easy when it's the popular vote among your constituents and the vote is going overwhelmingly in the opposite direction.
It's not as easy for the president to play games like that. I think that the president had a shock when he went into the oval office for the first time and was briefed on things that only the administration knows. Suddenly there are a lot more things to think about then what decision will get you the most votes.

It was the same thing with Iraq and Afghanistan. Senator and Candidate Obama criticized President Bush and his policies on these two fronts. When he got into office, he followed the Bush schedule to the letter.

He keeps saying that he wants to close GITMO but he hasn't yet. Could it be that once he got into office he learned a few things about that whole situation and why we haven't closed that facility? That was a priority and yet, it is still open.

It's pretty easy for us as well as the house and senate to sit in judgement of what the president is doing, but what do we really know? We don't have doesn't of experts in these areas advising us on what to do. We don't fully understand the repercussion of acting or not acting. Senator Obama didn't either.

[kittygilchrist]

I think conversation for me is mute until I hear more from the WH. Not that I am on their mailing list, but they can't nor should share all EXCEPT with the senate or congress, and that needs to be really wide open.

What is the end game...regime change...destroy capabilities of the regime to defend itself ?

If either of those...DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHO YOU ARE HANDING THIS OVER TO ? There is actually a report on NPR that suggests the chemical attack is the work of the rebels. Is It Possible The Syrian Rebels (Not Assad) Used Chemical Weapons? : The Two-Way : NPR (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/27/216172145/is-it-possible-the-syrian-rebels-not-assad-used-chemical-weapons)

that is a blog. a blog has as much credibility as something said on facebook or twitter or totv.

[zcaveman]

that is a blog. a blog has as much credibility as something said on facebook or twitter or totv.

This seems to be your standard answer. Are you afraid to look at the facts? Please google Syria Al Qaeda and read some of the hits.

Z

[kittygilchrist]

This seems to be your standard answer. Are you afraid to look at the facts? Please google Syria Al Qaeda and read some of the hits.

Z

only if you keep posting blogs will I answer that way...I'm not interested in fishing for info to support your point.

[wendyquat]

I'm just tired of seeing the U.S. as the "world's policemen."
We put our troops at risk for countries that hate us to begin
with and never appreciate our efforts.

We need to stay out of other countries problems!
We never seem to have an understanding of the problems
To begin with.

I am empathetic with populations/countries that do not
have our democracy and freedom.

That being said DEMOCRACY does NOT WORK with people
who do not believe in the sanctity of life.


We need to stay out of Syria!

:agree:

[Madelaine Amee]

that is a blog. a blog has as much credibility as something said on facebook or twitter or totv.

Both of these editorials which you consider as being blogs, are editorials written by reputable reporters who are well versed in their subject, and their editorials are then printed in reputable media outlets. The fact that the general public is allowed to express their opinions does not make it a blog.

The following is a definition of a blog: "It is a "web-log" where you have a page online. You share your thoughts and ideas. You can have a theme..... shopping or travel. Or you can just talk about your daily life. You can buy a domain for $10 and pay a host $10 a month to set up a website. Or you can go to one of 10 places for blogs (blogger, tumblr, wordpress, etc) and they will help you set it up."

These editorials which you are writing off as blogs, are excellent editorials written by reputable knowledgeable people. If you search the net you will find other excellent articles written by people who have made the middle east their life study and probably know it better than than any of us.

[Bucco]

that is a blog. a blog has as much credibility as something said on facebook or twitter or totv.


I am not sure what you mean. I pretty much allow some credence if NPR does, and while you can dismiss me and the BLOG, your obviously totally and completely not understanding posts and more interested in going after the posters integrity.

I said when I posted that link.....

"There is actually a report on NPR that suggests the chemical attack is the work of the rebels"

This statement was made was made in the context of insuring you know who you are supporting. You must not understand context at all. I never said the statement was accurate in anyway, and offered it as one scenario that is floated.

Sorry that you were blind to that. I will go slower and be clearer next time as your goal is not to discuss.

[Bucco]

Both of these editorials which you consider as being blogs, are editorials written by reputable reporters who are well versed in their subject, and their editorials are then printed in reputable media outlets. The fact that the general public is allowed to express their opinions does not make it a blog.

The following is a definition of a blog: "It is a "web-log" where you have a page online. You share your thoughts and ideas. You can have a theme..... shopping or travel. Or you can just talk about your daily life. You can buy a domain for $10 and pay a host $10 a month to set up a website. Or you can go to one of 10 places for blogs (blogger, tumblr, wordpress, etc) and they will help you set it up."

These editorials which you are writing off as blogs, are excellent editorials written by reputable knowledgeable people. If you search the net you will find other excellent articles written by people who have made the middle east their life study and probably know it better than than any of us.

I get in trouble on here, but some are not interested in discussion but making some point that I do not get.

[Bucco]

only if you keep posting blogs will I answer that way...I'm not interested in fishing for info to support your point.

I AM interested in "fishing for info"

That, to me is the purpose of a message board.

[Moderator]

Please, address the topic and not each other.

[rp001]

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)
Rp, Thanks for the post..6 day war. No wonder I didn't remember that.
1967.


The fact is Israel attacked the US. The real question is, was it it intentional. The survivors all believe it was, as OUR ship was clearly identified and there were several gun runs done by ISRAELI PILOTS on an unarmed vessel in international waters. I don't look on Israel as the ally everyone wants them to seem. It is a matter of convenience only, and I treat them as any other country trying to influence our foreign policy, always looking out for their interests. I refuse to let them or any other country drag us into a war where we are the ones paying the bills, either monetarily, or with the lives of our young and precious, with no end or gains in sight. Forget remember the Alamo, REMEMBER VIETNAM!!!!

[Bucco]

The fact is Israel attacked the US. The real question is, was it it intentional. The survivors all believe it was, as the ship was clearly identified and there were several gun runs done by them on an unarmed vessel in international waters. I don't look on Israel as the ally everyone wants them to seem. It is a matter of convenience only, and I treat them as any other country trying to influence our
foreign policy, always looking out for their interests. I refuse to let them or any other country drag us into a war where we are the ones paying the bills, either monetarily or with the lives of our young and precious with no end or gains in sight. Forget remember the Alamo, REMEMBER VIETNAM!!!!

In this particular case, not so sure Israel was involved in any decision. They become a player based on past response to US actions.

Syria has been a problem for years and with no action, this day of decision had to come. I think I started a thread on the makeup of the rebels a year or so.

But to your point, since we have muddled, we need, or will need,to address Egypt, Libya etc. We need to decide if it is in our interests to stop this crap before it gets to our shore or wait. That is not an endorsement to attack, at least not in the manner I understand is proposed. It's just that this is not going to stop

[Monkei]

If he is in between a rock and a hard place it's because he made the statement a year ago about crossing the RED LINE and then NOT following through on it. You cannot pretend your going to do something and then do NOTHING. Mixed signals to our allies and enemies is a huge mistake. As is taking 9-10 days to get Congress together while you leave for a tee time. I don't find funny the fact that none of our allies will stand by us. They are just as confused as everyone else. We are in desperate need of a leader in foreign affairs. This whole situation is critical and NOT calling Congress for an emergency meeting is another mistake that may be very costly.

Congress can call themselves together at any time. They do not need the presidents approval. Gassing your own citizens and using gas in warfare is a line that has been drawn before Obama was president

This country has not had a leader in foreign affairs since Eisenhower. He was the last president who actually "got it".

Besides since when has congress worked with this president. They would much rather hang him out to dry on everything unfortunately at this country's sake.

[rp001]

In this particular case, not so sure Israel was involved in any decision. They become a player based on past response to US actions.

Syria has been a problem for years and with no action, this day of decision had to come. I think I started a thread on the makeup of the rebels a year or so.

But to your point, since we have muddled, we need, or will need,to address Egypt, Libya etc. We need to decide if it is in our interests to stop this crap before it gets to our shore or wait. That is not an endorsement to attack, at least not in the manner I understand is proposed. It's just that this is not going to stop


I'm sorry but Istak Rabin was involved in the decision. The Israeli government paid over 20 million dollars in damages to the families, the survivors, and the US gov't for repairs to our ship. How can you say they "were not involved in the decision"? Again, Israel remains a friend out of convenience, TO THEM!!! Arabs killing Arabs, sounds like a civil war to me.

[wendyquat]

Let's just suppose, hypothetical of course, we do strike and it escalates to a "boots on the ground" war in Syria! (Never say never!). Can we ask our fine military to fight hand in hand WITH Al Qaeda? I hope not!

[Bucco]

I'm sorry but Istak Rabin was involved in the decision. The Israeli government paid over 20 million dollars in damages to the families, the survivors, and the US gov't for repairs to our ship. How can you say they "were not involved in the decision"? Again, Israel remains a friend out of convenience, TO THEM!!! Arabs killing Arabs, sounds like a civil war to me.

Wasn't disputing your story, just talking about Syria in regards to Israel.

[Bucco]

Let's just suppose, hypothetical of course, we do strike and it escalates to a "boots on the ground" war in Syria! (Never say never!). Can we ask our fine military to fight hand in hand WITH Al Qaeda? I hope not!

Not as specific as your point is, but my big question is who we are helping with whatever we do.

[Monkei]

Let's just suppose, hypothetical of course, we do strike and it escalates to a "boots on the ground" war in Syria! (Never say never!). Can we ask our fine military to fight hand in hand WITH Al Qaeda? I hope not!

Or maybe it turns out like Lybia did?

[wendyquat]

Or maybe it turns out like Lybia did?


Unfortunately our military has been so degraded at this point I don't see how anyone could ask them to participate in another war! Especially when we don't even know who the enemy is!

[buggyone]

Unfortunately our military has been so degraded at this point I don't see how anyone could ask them to participate in another war! Especially when we don't even know who the enemy is!

Time to bring back the military draft for 18 year olds.

[donb9006]

Time to bring back the military draft for 18 year olds.

To fight for the corporations?

[mulligan]

The problem is not lack of bodies, it's lack of funding. There are plenty of volunteers out there due to the poor job market.

[donb9006]

The problem is not lack of bodies, it's lack of funding. There are plenty of volunteers out there due to the poor job market.

Lack of funding? The Fed is "printing" about $90 billion every month and giving it to the banks. This will be the "excuse" to raise the debt ceiling.

[Monkei]

To fight for the corporations?

That is what this country has become.

[nitehawk]

To fight for the corporations?

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[rp001]

That is what this country has become.

how sad it is the religious extremists and huge multi national (GREEDY) corporations have taken over our country and maybe the whole world. I don't have the answer as to how to take it back but it must be done to save future generations.

[PennBF]

I don't understand the proposal to bomb the citizens of Syria. The leaders are the ones that approved using gas on their citizens. If some "gang leaders" in a major city (e.g. LA, etc) cause a gang fight and kill some people you don't kill all the citizens in the area. You go in and kill the leaders who are causing the problems. This should be a "surgical" action specifically cutting out the ones who authorized the gassing of innocent adults and children. These people will not change as there is no cure for psychopaths and that has been proven over time. They will not change. There is an old story about a snake on the side of the road and he asked the person to please take him to the other side and the person said no because he will bite him and the snake promised he wouldn't SO the person picked up the snake and when they got to the other side the snake bit him The person said why did you do that? You promised you would not bite me. The snake replied "that is what snakes do". Why would we be surprised these leaders would kill as that is what they do. :confused:

[Bay Kid]

Where did WE get our intelligence reports? The brotherhood? Are we sure? Will us killing many of them make them stop? So many questions w/no real answers.

[donb9006]

I don't understand the proposal to bomb the citizens of Syria. The leaders are the ones that approved using gas on their citizens. If some "gang leaders" in a major city (e.g. LA, etc) cause a gang fight and kill some people you don't kill all the citizens in the area. You go in and kill the leaders who are causing the problems. This should be a "surgical" action specifically cutting out the ones who authorized the gassing of innocent adults and children. These people will not change as there is no cure for psychopaths and that has been proven over time. They will not change. There is an old story about a snake on the side of the road and he asked the person to please take him to the other side and the person said no because he will bite him and the snake promised he wouldn't SO the person picked up the snake and when they got to the other side the snake bit him The person said why did you do that? You promised you would not bite me. The snake replied "that is what snakes do". Why would we be surprised these leaders would kill as that is what they do. :confused:

Because there's an "agreement" amongst "leaders" that you don't do that. Why? How many leaders would there be? EVERY time another leader disagreed with you...they have you killed...it tends to go through a lot of leaders very quickly when you do that. "Civilized" governments don't assassinate other world leaders. Think of how easy it would be to take out the Kremlin or another country like Russia to take out the Capitol building during the state of the union.

Yes...don't expect a snake to NOT be a snake...don't expect a psychopath to not be a psychopath. Most "rulers" are psychopaths...it's the personality type that attains those positions.

[Irish Rover]

Are we sure that Syria used the weapons? Perhaps the rebels are playing us. Be a shame to make another major mistake in a fight that we don't have a dog in.

[donb9006]

Are we sure that Syria used the weapons? Perhaps the rebels are playing us. Be a shame to make another major mistake in a fight that we don't have a dog in.

Perhaps it's OUR leaders playing us?

[Suzi]

As far as the president being a Muslim, I think that that kind of talk is ridiculous and divisive. I'm not a big fan of this president and his policies or some of the decisions he made but I'd prefer to stick with substance rather than rhetoric.
Sitting in the senate it's pretty easy to vote against the president. It's especially easy when it's the popular vote among your constituents and the vote is going overwhelmingly in the opposite direction.
It's not as easy for the president to play games like that. I think that the president had a shock when he went into the oval office for the first time and was briefed on things that only the administration knows. Suddenly there are a lot more things to think about then what decision will get you the most votes.

It was the same thing with Iraq and Afghanistan. Senator and Candidate Obama criticized President Bush and his policies on these two fronts. When he got into office, he followed the Bush schedule to the letter.

He keeps saying that he wants to close GITMO but he hasn't yet. Could it be that once he got into office he learned a few things about that whole situation and why we haven't closed that facility? That was a priority and yet, it is still open.

It's pretty easy for us as well as the house and senate to sit in judgement of what the president is doing, but what do we really know? We don't have doesn't of experts in these areas advising us on what to do. We don't fully understand the repercussion of acting or not acting. Senator Obama didn't either.

You imply that being muslim is a bad thing. It is ONLY if they are radical.

[chachacha]

personally, i think President Obama, of whom i am not a fan, finally had the good sense to see that his threat about the red line was getting us into an untenable situation, with no support of allies, and he made the astute move to leave it in the hands of congress....this way he can blame the "do nothing" congress for interfering, when in reality they will be saving our necks, as usual....i feel the window of opportunity to help the syrian people came and went two years ago, when nothing was done. that is truly a sin and a pity.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

You imply that being muslim is a bad thing. It is ONLY if they are radical.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that. I agree with you.

My point is that some people want to insist that the president is a Muslim implying that he is sympathetic to the radicals. Other people believe that they are all radical and some are simply hiding the fact.

Let me make this clear. I do not like this president's policies or ideas. I didn't vote for him either time and will not vote the democratic candidate next time around. But I believe that we should stick to substantive issues and not resort to ridiculous name calling.

I was not implying that all Muslims are bad. I was responding to the people who do think that that way.

[Golfingnut]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that. I agree with you.

My point is that some people want to insist that the president is a Muslim implying that he is sympathetic to the radicals. Other people believe that they are all radical and some are simply hiding the fact.

Let me make this clear. I do not like this president's policies or ideas. I didn't vote for him either time and will not vote the democratic candidate next time around. But I believe that we should stick to substantive issues and not resort to ridiculous name calling.

I was not implying that all Muslims are bad. I was responding to the people who do think that that way.

I am yet to meet a good Muslim or anyone of the Islamic faith. I feel confident the may exist, but I have not witnessed a lot of condemnation of radical Muslims from the rest of them. Until I see otherwise, all mulims are intent on killing me, my family my children and my grandchildren. I hope I am wrong about this.

[Bucco]

Biggest question for me right now is WHO are these rebels ?

The Free Syrian Army....The Syrian liberation Front...Syrian Islamic Front..Jabhat al-Nusra, etc. etc. All I have seen mentioned. To me our leaders need to concentrate a lot on that.

[ilovetv]

I wanted to see how Colin Powell viewed the WMD situation in Iraq in 2003, leading up to invasion on March 19, 2003, and now in 2013 in Syria. These two links are instructive....

Briefing on the Iraq Weapons Inspectors' 60-Day Report: Iraqi Non-cooperation and Defiance of the UN

Secretary Colin L. Powell
Washington, DC
January 27, 2003

Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Earlier today, in accordance with UN Resolution 1441, Doctors’ Blix and El Baradei provided the United Nations Security Council their 60-day reports on inspection activity in Iraq.

We listened carefully as the inspectors reported that Iraq has not provided the active, immediate and unconditional cooperation that the Council demanded in UN Resolution 1441.

As Dr. Blix said, "Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament that was demanded of it." Let me repeat, because this is the essence of the problem. Dr. Blix said, "Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament that was demanded of it." 1441 is all about the disarmament demanded of Iraq.

The inspectors' findings came as no surprise. For 11 years before 1441, Saddam Hussein's regime refused to make the strategic decision, the political decision, to disarm itself of weapons of mass destruction and to comply with the world's demands.

To this day, the Iraq regime continues to defy the will of the United Nations. The Iraqi regime has responded to 1441 with empty claims, empty declarations and empty gestures.

It has not given the inspectors and the international community any concrete information in answer to a host of key questions: Where is the missing anthrax? This is not just a question of historical curiosity. It is essential for us to know what happened with this deadly material.

Where is the VX? Also not just a trivial question. We must know what happened to this deadly material.

Where are the chemical and biological munitions? Where are the mobile biological laboratories? If the Iraqi regime was truly committed to disarmament, we wouldn't be looking for these mobile labs. They'd drive them up and park them in front of UNMOVIC headquarters for inspection.

Why is Iraq violating the restrictions on ballistic missiles? Why is it violating the ban on missiles with a range of more than 150 kilometers? Where are the credible, verifiable answers to all of the other disarmament questions compiled by the previous inspectors?

Today, we heard that the inspectors have not been able to interview any Iraqi in private. We heard that the inspectors have not been allowed to employ aerial surveillance. Why not? If Iraq was committed to disarmament, if Iraq understood what 1441 was all about, they would willingly allow this kind of surveillance, they would willingly allow people to be interviewed without minders, without fear of retribution.

We have heard that the inspectors have still not received, a full list of Iraqi personnel involved with weapons of mass destruction. If Iraq no longer has weapons of mass destruction, they should willingly give the names of all who were involved in their previous programs to the inspectors for examination and interview.

The inspectors told us that their efforts have been impeded by a swarm of Iraqi minders. Why, if Iraq was committed to disarmament, would they be going to these efforts to deceive and to keep the inspectors from doing their work? Passive cooperation is not what was called for in 1441.

The inspectors have also told us that they have evidence that Iraq has moved or hidden items at sites just prior to inspection visits. That's what the inspectors say, not what Americans say, not what American intelligence says, but we certainly corroborate all of that. But this is information from the inspectors.

And the inspectors have caught the Iraqis concealing "top secret" information in a private residence. You all saw the pictures of that information being brought out. Why? Why, if Iraq was committed to disarmament, as required under 1441, would we be finding this kind of information squirreled away in private homes, for any other reason than to keep it away from the inspectors?

The list of unanswered questions and the many ways Iraq is frustrating the work of the inspectors goes on and on. Iraq's refusal to disarm, in compliance with Resolution 1441, still threatens international peace and security. And Iraq's defiance continues to challenge the relevance and credibility of the Security Council.......

Briefing on the Iraq Weapons Inspectors' Report (http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/new/doc%2021/Briefing%20on%20the%20Iraq%20Weapons%20Inspectors% 27%20Report.htm)

Aug. 25, 2013 - COLIN POWELL: Syria Is An 'Internal Struggle' That Is Beyond US Capabilities

Read more: COLIN POWELL: Syria Is An 'Internal Struggle' That Is Beyond US Capabilities - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/colin-powell-syria-caution-2013-8#ixzz2dmOf61Yb)
"....In both Egypt and Syria, America has to take a much more clever role," Powell said. "We shouldn't go around thinking that we can really make things happen. We can influence things and we can be ready to help people when problems have been resolved or one side has prevailed over the other."

"To think that we can change things immediately just because we're America, that's not necessarily the case," Powell said. "These are internal struggles."

His comments are in stark contrast to Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham, who both have called for "limited military actions ... that can change the balance of power."

In a joint statement from both Republicans, they said "the longer the conflict in Syria goes on, the worse and worse it gets and the more it spreads throughout the region."

A retired four-star general, Powell served as Secretary of State during the Bush administration from 2001-2005. His testimony to the United Nations in 2003 was instrumental in garnering international support for the Iraq war.


Read more: COLIN POWELL: Syria Is An 'Internal Struggle' That Is Beyond US Capabilities - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/colin-powell-syria-caution-2013-8#ixzz2dmOf61Yb)

[buggyone]

I am yet to meet a good Muslim or anyone of the Islamic faith. I feel confident the may exist, but I have not witnessed a lot of condemnation of radical Muslims from the rest of them. Until I see otherwise, all mulims are intent on killing me, my family my children and my grandchildren. I hope I am wrong about this.

Wow! That is all I have to say about this.

How many Muslims have you met personally? How did they harm you?

[Bucco]

Add to the scenario....almost 2 MILLION refugees from Syria in the region.....over 700,000 to Turkey alone (another brewing crisis here).

We are told that poverty, desperation, etc breeds terrorists and terrorism so if you look at the map in the link, you can almost see the area that WILL flare up.

Stories from Syrian Refugees (http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/syria.php)

I am personally torn about all of this. I want to say, let them figure it out, but I also know we have serious interests in the Middle East and can't. I want to say bombs away, but, in my opinion that will make it worse.

I guess for the last years we have ignored Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc thus the problem is magnified.

We should all pray that our elected officials do not make this discussion political and understand ALL ramifications. And pray they all of a sudden, in lieu of pure politics, get wisdom.

I do not feel confident. A lot of what I hear is sounding partisan. This issue, addressed a year or so ago instead of...well..whatever, but it is now even more multi faceted and complex. I keep saying, to me, an important issue is determining exactly who are these rebels. ANY action will help them....although since we are already supplying some arms to them,let us hope we have identified them.

[PennBF]

I understand the problem with surgically removing the snakes who killed over a thousand children BUT having said this I have a hard time believing that to be politically correct we should kill thousands of innocent people because of a few and to do this to be sure we are PC. There are killings of leaders all the time. As I recall we killed Osamba, the Russians have killed a number of leaders who disagree with them, etc.etc. I have a hard time pointing this out as I don't think it should be a "way of life". BUT when terrible people take it upon them selves to kill thousands of children I lift the restrictions and say go get them. When the Muslim's killed all of the Olympic Jewish team Israel tracked down the killers over a few years and met their life for a life. They did not bomb Muslim countries but surgically made the killers pay for their killings.
What makes a great society is the ability to be civil and disagree with each other. Thank goodness for The Villages :rant-rave:

[donb9006]

I understand the problem with surgically removing the snakes who killed over a thousand children BUT having said this I have a hard time believing that to be politically correct we should kill thousands of innocent people because of a few and to do this to be sure we are PC. There are killings of leaders all the time. As I recall we killed Osamba, the Russians have killed a number of leaders who disagree with them, etc.etc. I have a hard time pointing this out as I don't think it should be a "way of life". BUT when terrible people take it upon them selves to kill thousands of children I lift the restrictions and say go get them. When the Muslim's killed all of the Olympic Jewish team Israel tracked down the killers over a few years and met their life for a life. They did not bomb Muslim countries but surgically made the killers pay for their killings.
What makes a great society is the ability to be civil and disagree with each other. Thank goodness for The Villages :rant-rave:

That's all there is to a great society. In a great society, there isn't much disagreement. "Diversity is good" is the great lie. People who are alike get along, people who aren't don't. You don't get a great society from people who don't get along.

Take The Villages as an example...do you really think it would be what it is if it were "diverse"? I don't think so... The truth is hidden from us.

[wendyquat]

I consider myself well read and, although not Mensa material, I pride myself on being fairly smart with abundant common sense and be dang if I can figure out how a strike can help in any way! (Other than possibly making someone feel better about themself). Two wrongs never make a right! The risk is too great that it will cause more harm than good. Seems Assad (if we are to believe everything we are told) killed over 100,000 people before anyone took an interest! I smell a big ole rat!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Because there's an "agreement" amongst "leaders" that you don't do that.

Really?? Someone should have told that to Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, and give me a little time and I bet I can come up with several more. How about Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy,Yitzhak Rabin, Anwar Sadat.
Which world leaders exactly have signed on to this agreement?

[donb9006]

Off the top of my head... Hitler was suicide, Saddam was tried, Mussolini was killed by the "Italian resistance movement", Hirohito died from cancer, Noriega was tried...

What does this have to do with one nation assassinating another nations leader? That's not what happened in your examples.

I don't understand your point. That leaders die? Yes, everyone does... But not by state sanctioned assassination. And that was the point I was making. 1st world states don't assassinate the leaders of other states.

[Golfingnut]

I consider myself well read and, although not Mensa material, I pride myself on being fairly smart with abundant common sense and be dang if I can figure out how a strike can help in any way! (Other than possibly making someone feel better about themself). Two wrongs never make a right! The risk is too great that it will cause more harm than good. Seems Assad (if we are to believe everything we are told) killed over 100,000 people before anyone took an interest! I smell a big ole rat!

I am in this wagon also. The only ONE we should go after, if anyone, is the ONE who gave the order. If we start bombing we will have several million more Muslims willing to be suicide bombers.

[Golfingnut]

Wow! That is all I have to say about this.

How many Muslims have you met personally? How did they harm you?

I have worked with Muslims when we lived in Wash D. C..

They all harmed me by remaining silent after 911. Any person not condemning radical Muslims supports their actions. That silence hurts me and mine.

[Madelaine Amee]

They all harmed me by remaining silent after 911. Any person not condemning radical Muslims supports their actions. That silence hurts me and mine.

YES! Until they are prepared to condemn their own, no support from this house.

[l2ridehd]

Golfingnut and Madelaine are correct even if we don't really care for how it was stated.

Silence is a very telling attribute of every Muslim I know. I also live in the DC area and I know many. A few I count as people I know well. Notice I did not say friends intentionally. I have even discussed the terrorists attacks and the radical jihads with several of them. These are good people. The live, work, raise children, shop, and socialize with others.

However not a single one of them will condemn the actions of the radical side of their religion. They don't openly support those actions, but they also do not condemn them. They remain silent. They are taught in their church that you and I are infidels. They are taught that we are not to be tolerated. They are taught that killing us is not a sin, but an entrance to paradise.

Until the leaders of the Muslim world come out and condemn the actions of those that want to kill us, until they stop teaching their children that destroying all infidels is the right thing to do, I will not condone the silence they support by inaction. So far not a single one has publicly stated their condemnation of the radical side of their religion or people. That position is not acceptable to me.

[hampton]

Why are we getting involved in a civil war. There is no threat to the US. It is about bad guys killing bad guys. Maybe that is a win-win situation for US

[Golfingnut]

Golfingnut and Madelaine are correct even if we don't really care for how it was stated.

Silence is a very telling attribute of every Muslim I know. I also live in the DC area and I know many. A few I count as people I know well. Notice I did not say friends intentionally. I have even discussed the terrorists attacks and the radical jihads with several of them. These are good people. The live, work, raise children, shop, and socialize with others.

However not a single one of them will condemn the actions of the radical side of their religion. They don't openly support those actions, but they also do not condemn them. They remain silent. They are taught in their church that you and I are infidels. They are taught that we are not to be tolerated. They are taught that killing us is not a sin, but an entrance to paradise.

Until the leaders of the Muslim world come out and condemn the actions of those that want to kill us, until they stop teaching their children that destroying all infidels is the right thing to do, I will not condone the silence they support by inaction. So far not a single one has publicly stated their condemnation of the radical side of their religion or people. That position is not acceptable to me.

I understand what you are trying to say even though we don't really like the way it is stated. The leaders will never change like extremists from any religion will never change. The Muslim people must step up to the plate and condemn the leaders for not putting a halt to killing.

[billethkid]

Drudge report poll.
Question was should congress give Obama authorization to strike Syria?
Results:

((( DRUDGE POLL )))
9/2/13 19:30 PM ET

Thank you for voting!
YES 7.94% (28,394 votes)

NO 92.06% (329,188 votes)


Total Votes: 357,582
Return To Poll

If one assumes this would be a typical response plus or minus some amount, the will of the people is over whelmingly a big loud NO!

And we all know our representatives in Washington will represent the the will of the people.....right?

btk

[janmcn]

Just moments ago Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor announced they would support the President's request for military force in Syria. Boehner had been adamant that the president request a vote by congress.

[PennBF]

Syria is a religious war within its society and we are being asked to be a sub set of the religious war. As the book titled "Year 2000" said the US will never fight Russia or China as they don't fight those wars but will fight over land if it is threatened. We historically fight in religious wars. Lets stay with the land as a basis as as long as so many believe fighting over religion is appropriate we will never get out of the cycle. :ho:

[billethkid]

Just moments ago Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor announced they would support the President's request for military force in Syria. Boehner had been adamant that the president request a vote by congress.

so what does that say about representing the will of the people?
Easy....as usual they will represent the party first, then their own preference second and then third and so on contributors, special interest groups, lobbyists......representing the will of the American people:1rotfl::1rotfl:

btk

[billethkid]

and just a little bit ago the UN has said it illegal for the USA to go it alone.

They said unless the USA citizens or assets are under attack they do NOT SUPPORT an illegal action.

Your move Washington!!

I get the impression these politicians know how the differing cards will fall on significant events. This way now they can all say well we were ready to do the deed and support the president....but they won't let us do it.....from the president on down....all the representatives (:1rotfl:) in Washington have a cop out.

barf

btk

[Golfingnut]

and just a little bit ago the UN has said it illegal for the USA to go it alone.

They said unless the USA citizens or assets are under attack they do NOT SUPPORT an illegal action.

Your move Washington!!

I get the impression these politicians know how the differing cards will fall on significant events. This way now they can all say well we were ready to do the deed and support the president....but they won't let us do it.....from the president on down....all the representatives (:1rotfl:) in Washington have a cop out.

barf

btk

The UN has it right. If we attack without the support of the UN, we are no better than the Syrian government.

[ilovetv]

Just moments ago Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor announced they would support the President's request for military force in Syria. Boehner had been adamant that the president request a vote by congress.

I can't imagine Boehner and Cantor being so in agreement with Obama on such an unpopular mission, so I'm thinking that as usual, "they know" a heck of a lot more intelligence info than the media can know, about the depth of evil and horror about to spread.

The media always portrays these scenarios as if they conclusively know everything that's top secret, but talking heads on CNN, MSNBC, FNC etc. do not know what presidents know. I always wonder what the conversation goes like when the incoming and outgoing presidents meet in private, and ride in the limo to the inauguration. It was telling that Obama, within weeks, took the same position as Bush on some of the critical terrorism matters like Afghanistan, Gitmo, etc. They know a lot more than we or the media ever could.

I liked it when, at GWB's presidential library dedication this year, Clinton told how often he and GWB would talk and debate like crazy by phone regularly, and there was obvious respect for each other. I hope they're all consulting with Obama on this terrible mess.

[Golfingnut]

Boehner and Cantor are always ready for a good war.

[donb9006]

I can't imagine Boehner and Cantor being so in agreement with Obama on such an unpopular mission, so I'm thinking that as usual, "they know" a heck of a lot more intelligence info than the media can know, about the depth of evil and horror about to spread.

The media always portrays these scenarios as if they conclusively know everything that's top secret, but talking heads on CNN, MSNBC, FNC etc. do not know what presidents know. I always wonder what the conversation goes like when the incoming and outgoing presidents meet in private, and ride in the limo to the inauguration. It was telling that Obama, within weeks, took the same position as Bush on some of the critical terrorism matters like Afghanistan, Gitmo, etc. They know a lot more than we or the media ever could.

I liked it when, at GWB's presidential library dedication this year, Clinton told how often he and GWB would talk and debate like crazy by phone regularly, and there was obvious respect for each other. I hope they're all consulting with Obama on this terrible mess.

The horror and evil will come from us.

Because all presidents work for the same people, take the same orders.

"Meet the new boss...same as the old boss".

[Shimpy]

The biggest element of an attack is the element of surprise. I guess we can forget about that.

[wendyquat]

Hi Diane, the point is not for the Saudis to militarily come in...I think they have no interest in destabilizing relations further between Arab nations.
The point was to say that the Arab League opposes chemical warfare to counter black and white thinking about Muslims.
Some folks are saying things like:
Muslims/Arabs just want to kill each other and...
Obama is a Muslim so he wouldn't kill a Muslim (except Bin Laden?)--

Not all Muslims/Arabs are terrorists. Our blindly thinking of them all as enemies just wears me out.

It might wear you out but what is one to think when the so-called peaceful Muslims never step forward and condemn the acts of the radicals?

[Shimpy]

It might wear you out but what is one to think when the so-called peaceful Muslims never step forward and condemn the acts of the radicals?

They don't condemn them because they don't condemn them.

[billethkid]

The biggest element of an attack is the element of surprise. I guess we can forget about that.

The surprise will be what Asaad and the Iranians do when we launch our controlled, measured, limited, hurt no one attack.

We are not only pre-announcing such an action, we are allowing all the time in the world for them to prepare just exactly what and how they will counter attack.

Then the only surprised people will be the pupetered mateurs in Washington.

Watching the hearings today should be an embarassment for any thinking American.

If there are 70-90% of Americans against doing anything then why do the so called representatives need to continue the debate.
Ooops I forgot they did the same thing with Obamascare when 60% of Americans were against it.

If you have strong feelings one way or the other then you are not helping the American system work if you have not contacted your representatives in Wahington........we can at least try to get them to represent us.

btk

[Bucco]

The surprise will be what Asaad and the Iranians do when we launch our controlled, measured, limited, hurt no one attack.

We are not only pre-announcing such an action, we are allowing all the time in the world for them to prepare just exactly what and how they will counter attack.

Then the only surprised people will be the pupetered mateurs in Washington.

Watching the hearings today should be an embarassment for any thinking American.

If there are 70-90% of Americans against doing anything then why do the so called representatives need to continue the debate.
Ooops I forgot they did the same thing with Obamascare when 60% of Americans were against it.

If you have strong feelings one way or the other then you are not helping the American system work if you have not contacted your representatives in Wahington........we can at least try to get them to represent us.

btk

It was a bit embarassing, I do agree.....I am really torn.

What was embarassing is how this has been bungled....not sure if I can say ALL...but close to ALL foreign affairs, but this Syria thing. Hearing Kerry say they know, we all suspected, that there were other chemical attacks for which we did not even get upset and did nothing including even condemn them. Hearing him backtrack a number of times about boots on the ground. He DID however come back to it a few times to make a point about no boots, but left me wondering why the intial wandering around. The whole thing is a mess.

I surely would love to say....the heck with it, but I am one who thinks we need to support the President...he may not be the guy I want, but still the President. I think politics was played to get to this point big time and that makes me mad, but I think we still have to support him and he has put his neck out there.

Did you hear, and this was an open hearing, how we have been screwing up the aid and support for the rebels....do you hear Kerry differentiate between the rebels by region ? What a mess this is......to me, it shows you cannot ignore it and hope it all goes away. Next President will need to address the neighboring area which has been ignored. No wonder, after hearing today, that Israel is ticked.....cannot imagine what they will hear in the private meetings.

The last few years have left us so poorly respected that this is something I think we need to do or as bad as it is now, the perception will become worse. What a mess to even get to today.....what a tangled web.

[Hancle704]

in just a few days, but I have to ask if this is a political thread and not permitted?

[ilovetv]

It was a bit embarassing, I do agree.....I am really torn.

What was embarassing is how this has been bungled....not sure if I can say ALL...but close to ALL foreign affairs, but this Syria thing. Hearing Kerry say they know, we all suspected, that there were other chemical attacks for which we did not even get upset and did nothing including even condemn them. Hearing him backtrack a number of times about boots on the ground. He DID however come back to it a few times to make a point about no boots, but left me wondering why the intial wandering around. The whole thing is a mess.

I surely would love to say....the heck with it, but I am one who thinks we need to support the President...he may not be the guy I want, but still the President. I think politics was played to get to this point big time and that makes me mad, but I think we still have to support him and he has put his neck out there.

Did you hear, and this was an open hearing, how we have been screwing up the aid and support for the rebels....do you hear Kerry differentiate between the rebels by region ? What a mess this is......to me, it shows you cannot ignore it and hope it all goes away. Next President will need to address the neighboring area which has been ignored. No wonder, after hearing today, that Israel is ticked.....cannot imagine what they will hear in the private meetings.

The last few years have left us so poorly respected that this is something I think we need to do or as bad as it is now, the perception will become worse. What a mess to even get to today.....what a tangled web.

Speaking broadly and generally, yes, we should support the president regardless of whether he was our choice in the election. BUT, when it comes to specific "decision points".....our nation and constitution are centered on a system of separation of powers, and the system of checks and balances:

"Checks and balances
To prevent one branch from becoming supreme, protect the "opulent minority" from the majority, and to induce the branches to cooperate, government systems that employ a separation of powers need a way to balance each of the branches. Typically this was accomplished through a system of "checks and balances", the origin of which, like separation of powers itself, is specifically credited to Montesquieu. Checks and balances allow for a system based regulation that allows one branch to limit another, such as the power of Congress to alter the composition and jurisdiction of the federal courts." (See specific powers for Legislative, Judicial and Executive branches at: )

Separation of powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers)

Also, the separation of powers and checks/balances are there to make the elected officials accountable to the people. Right now, if 8% of respondents are for attacking Syria, and 92% say "Stay OUT of it", for the president to go forth on his own (alleged, debatable) authority and against the vote by Congress, his actions would be ignoring and circumventing the will of the people expressed thru their representatives who debated this very day in the senate committee, with for example Sec. of State Kerry (respresenting the administration) debating Sen. Paul (representing the people in his constituency). I think the vote of Congress must stand and not be ignored by the executive branch.

[gomoho]

Think it is more of a global issue than political, but why do you feel the need to stir the pot in that direction? People are sharing ideas and fears in a respectful manner about an issue that affects you no matter what side of the street you walk on. I for one appreciate the opportunity.

[ilovetv]

in just a few days, but I have to ask if this is a political thread and not permitted?

I don't think there's much if any "political" combativeness here on this particular topic. To me it's a much-needed discussion of CIVICS.

[PennBF]

When a member of the Foreign Relation Committee asked how long it will take for the UN to examine the usage of chemical gas Kerry responded it would take about 3 weeks for the UN to provide proof so there would be universal knowledge of the answer. Then the Member of the Committee asked would they be able to tell whether it would identify if it was the Syria Gov't or the rebels and the answer was no. It would not be possible to determine who used the gas. Net: is we will not know if this was an act by the rebels to draw the US in or an act of the Syrian Gov't. Yet, with all of this lack of knowledge there are movements to put our young people in harms way and some officials want to do it to "protect against the government being imbarassed because of their word to attack based on the red line statement." Again: No proof who used the gas, want to do it to show we will stand by an early nonsense statement, not an attack on the US, etc. Why would we ever go to war based on these conditions. I left out that it is a conflict to protect the rebels who may be more against the US and set up worse potential for attacks on the US and may be the ones who started this. What a great strategy to make it look like the Syrian Gov't used gas as that is the best and fastest way to get the US to get involved and protect them . What an ungodly mess. At the Foreign Relations Committee meeting Kerry said "he could not take boots off the ground forever..!!:MOJE_whot:

[wendyquat]

In light of all this discussion, I trust everyone has contacted your congressmen and voiced your opinions!

[billethkid]

throughout this thread there has been good discussion and expression oe personal views and opinions on Obama seeking congressional approval.

There have been some refernces to waiting until congress gets back and isn't that too long to wait, etc.

Here is a link to two contrasting videos of Obama this week, the first one stating he did not create the so called "red line". The second one when he did in fact specifically create the red line to be crossed with military options at his disposal....

Obama: 'I Didn't Set a Red Line' on Syria | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-i-didnt-set-red-line-syria_752712.html)

.OVER A YEAR AGO!!!!!!

And now we sit waiting weeks and months after the chemicals have been used......really?

btk

[Bucco]

throughout this thread there has been good discussion and expression oe personal views and opinions on Obama seeking congressional approval.

There have been some refernces to waiting until congress gets back and isn't that too long to wait, etc.

Here is a link to two contrasting videos of Obama this week, the first one stating he did not create the so called "red line". The second one when he did in fact specifically create the red line to be crossed with military options at his disposal....

Obama: 'I Didn't Set a Red Line' on Syria | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-i-didnt-set-red-line-syria_752712.html)

.OVER A YEAR AGO!!!!!!

And now we sit waiting weeks and months after the chemicals have been used......really?

btk

BTK....I share your frustration on this. The road to get where we are today is loaded with so much lack of interest and mis judgement, it is difficult to get by what some folks would call political. I call the last weeks actions political for sure...I call the prior action or inaction to be..well, wrong.

Speaking in the arena of foreign affairs, I do not understand what our policy is, or what we are doing. From yesterdays hearing, I do not think many understand. We have gone from imminent bombing to congress making the call (that is what I referred to earlier as political), in hours actually. If we and our congress are confused..think of the world. We have gone from ignoring prior chemical attacks to needing action now....we are still stumbling, as they referred to during the hearing, on even getting help to the rebels, and we still are unsure about who those rebels are.

If you read, the world is confused by what is our policy and that is a recipe for disaster on a international scale. It is, to me, as if we just woke up and discovered what is actually going on in the world.

The move to congress was purely political in my mind...the policy is muddled, at best, but I do think we need to pass something and support the President. Hopefully if we get through this, he will begin to listen to those who understand the world and develop a foreign policy that makes some sense to us and the world.

I guess I am saying that I, for what it is worth, am against this action because as defined it makes no sense and the route to get here is so fuzzy and mixed up along with the fact that a NO vote will create more political rancor here at home, which I suppose was the intent.

Therefore, while I am against this kind of bombing (McCain makes more sense to me), I think we should be aware that our rep worldwide is and has been hit hard and to not support the President would just make that worse.

[ilovetv]

Some excellent, knowledgeable points explained here in this video interview, by Amb. John Bolton....mainly that the central problem is more with Iran and its nuclear weaponry than it is with Syria right now....and other critical considerations:

VIDEO: Amb. John Bolton 'On the Record' | Gretawire (http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/video/video-amb-john-bolton-on-the-record-3/)

[Bucco]

Some excellent, knowledgeable points explained here in this video interview, by Amb. John Bolton....mainly that the central problem is more with Iran and its nuclear weaponry than it is with Syria right now....and other critical considerations:

VIDEO: Amb. John Bolton 'On the Record' | Gretawire (http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/video/video-amb-john-bolton-on-the-record-3/)

Good interview.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, I am more in McCains camp here. What a limited strike as I heard defined yesterday in the hearings, and what the President described, will do is well beyond me.

We often talk about the Islam thinking....do you not believe that a "limited" strike on them is like making a bad face...it will accomplish nothing. Assad is still in power, perhaps hurting a bit, but the war continues....all others in the regions say...oh, as Bolton said in the interview "Is that all there is"....and become emboldened even more. These folks have known nothing in their life but bombing and death.

I can only imagine, and have read a few things, about what Israel is thinking about our foreign policy or lack thereof. I cannot recall the poster who said it about our foreign policy but whomever it was used a word that seems to fit....naivety.

[ilovetv]

I cannot recall the poster who said it about our foreign policy but whomever it was used a word that seems to fit....naivety.


Yes......and vast "inexperience".

[billethkid]

deleted by me

[Radioman41]

This is serving as a great diversion from other problems and scandals. The media has stopped talking about Obmacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, NSA, sequester, quantitative easing, and the spending level.

[jblum315]

Hello, it's done deal folks, Like it or not

[chachacha]

This is serving as a great diversion from other problems and scandals. The media has stopped talking about Obmacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, NSA, sequester, quantitative easing, and the spending level.

i agree with this poster. when congress gets back all that will also be back on the fire... FYI The Pope has called for a day of fasting and prayer for peace this saturday. We need God's help, for sure!

[Bucco]

This is serving as a great diversion from other problems and scandals. The media has stopped talking about Obmacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, NSA, sequester, quantitative easing, and the spending level.

First, Benghazi came up at least twice today during the hearings, deflected by Kerry saying...it's not on the back burner;we will talk in the private session.

Second, the Affordable Care act is beginning to get more and more "press" and I have said for quite some times as it begins its financial web (recall congress asked quietly for an exemption and it was granted) it will very much bring us to our knees. Over stated ? I don't think so, but it is going to be noticed very soon.

As far as the rest of what you mentioned....the admin will use military in Syria, etc to fight sequester.

[Moderator]

The topic is current events in Syria and Congressional/Presidential actions.

Please refrain from introducing other politically charged topics.

[Monkei]

Since again it looks like we find the funds to fight wars but not feed hungry, fix bridges, etc, etc. Oil companies want their oil pipelines bult to Europe. I am so sick of all this continuing and ongoing crap of a once proud country being run by big corporations and what they want. The gassing just happens to come at a beneficial time for these no good greedy oil companies.

[gomoho]

Since again it looks like we find the funds to fight wars but not feed hungry, fix bridges, etc, etc. Oil companies want their oil pipelines bult to Europe. I am so sick of all this continuing and ongoing crap of a once proud country being run by big corporations and what they want. The gassing just happens to come at a beneficial time for these no good greedy oil companies.

I don't think you are even close - we have more than enough oil in this country to be self sufficient if only we could access it - so that is a dead horse you are beating.

[Bucco]

Since again it looks like we find the funds to fight wars but not feed hungry, fix bridges, etc, etc. Oil companies want their oil pipelines bult to Europe. I am so sick of all this continuing and ongoing crap of a once proud country being run by big corporations and what they want. The gassing just happens to come at a beneficial time for these no good greedy oil companies.

I would like to hear what you might suggest this country might do relative to the Syrian situation, not just the chemical wars, but the ongoing cris there that has killed over 100,000 people and displaced about 2 million refugees. To that cause I believe the USA has given about 800 million dollars and any corporations also. UPS has a foundation that is patterning with UNICEF for money and goods to this specific cause.

[Bucco]

Finally maybe some good news..


"NOVO-OGARYOVO, RUSSIA President Vladimir Putin warned the West against taking one-sided action in Syria but also said Russia "doesn't exclude" supporting a U.N. resolution on punitive military strikes if it is proven that Damascus used poison gas on its own people."


Putin: Russia might let U.N. OK strike against Syria - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57601235/putin-russia-might-let-u.n-ok-strike-against-syria/)

[ilovetv]

Since again it looks like we find the funds to fight wars but not feed hungry, fix bridges, etc, etc. Oil companies want their oil pipelines bult to Europe. I am so sick of all this continuing and ongoing crap of a once proud country being run by big corporations and what they want. The gassing just happens to come at a beneficial time for these no good greedy oil companies.

How noble would it be to "feed the hungry" and "fix bridges", but not defend thousands of innocent women, children and men being gassed to death?!?!?

And I always wonder how people think the quality of life would be without fuel to heat the homes in winter, and fuel for power plants that provide power to run factories where people have jobs, and diesel fuel for farmers'tractors and machinery raising and harvesting crops, and fuel for truckers who bring food to our packing plants, stores and tables.

[Bucco]

How noble would it be to "feed the hungry" and "fix bridges", but not defend thousands of innocent women, children and men being gassed to death?!?!?

And I always wonder how people think the quality of life would be without fuel to heat the homes in winter, and fuel for power plants that provide power to run factories where people have jobs, and diesel fuel for farmers'tractors and machinery raising and harvesting crops, and fuel for truckers who bring food to our packing plants, stores and tables.


There is a website that tracks giving by corporations and executives....

Home - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas (http://philanthropy.com/section/Home/172/)

[Monkei]

I don't think you are even close - we have more than enough oil in this country to be self sufficient if only we could access it - so that is a dead horse you are beating.

It's not all about the oil, it's the entire defense apparatus which has to constantly feed itself. There is nothing better than a nice little war. All of a sudden we find the money ...

[Monkei]

I would like to hear what you might suggest this country might do relative to the Syrian situation, not just the chemical wars, but the ongoing cris there that has killed over 100,000 people and displaced about 2 million refugees. To that cause I believe the USA has given about 800 million dollars and any corporations also. UPS has a foundation that is patterning with UNICEF for money and goods to this specific cause.

Listen, I am one who sees very little difference in my family being gassed to death or being hacked to death by a machete. Yet we seem to find a difference when it comes to the Middle East. O.I.L.

[Monkei]

How noble would it be to "feed the hungry" and "fix bridges", but not defend thousands of innocent women, children and men being gassed to death?!?!?

And I always wonder how people think the quality of life would be without fuel to heat the homes in winter, and fuel for power plants that provide power to run factories where people have jobs, and diesel fuel for farmers'tractors and machinery raising and harvesting crops, and fuel for truckers who bring food to our packing plants, stores and tables.

Your concerns over their plight in life is endearing. Was it there for all the other massacres that have come before it that we somehow found a way to sit on the sidelines for?

Oil is not the enemy but big oil business is. They make billions in profits, they pay nothing in taxes and even get money back from this country. We spill blood in foreign countries to ensure the safety of their employees and the protection of their equipment and property. Not to mention that the end of the day they are not even required to sell their gas to us. There is little if anything we can do now, that day has come and gone. We are left with nothing but to play along in their game. Drill baby drill.

[LndLocked]

I don't think you are even close - we have more than enough oil in this country to be self sufficient if only we could access it - so that is a dead horse you are beating.

This statement is not factual nor based in the reality of the amount of oil reserves that are within the boundaries of the USofA.

[ilovetv]

Your concerns over their plight in life is endearing. Was it there for all the other massacres that have come before it that we somehow found a way to sit on the sidelines for?

Oil is not the enemy but big oil business is. They make billions in profits, they pay nothing in taxes and even get money back from this country. We spill blood in foreign countries to ensure the safety of their employees and the protection of their equipment and property. Not to mention that the end of the day they are not even required to sell their gas to us. There is little if anything we can do now, that day has come and gone. We are left with nothing but to play along in their game. Drill baby drill.

Now I get it. This is a good synopsis of how that works...

"Marc Rich, a shrewd, swashbuckling oil trader who fled to Switzerland after being indicted on charges of widespread tax evasion, illegal dealings with Iran and other crimes, and who was later pardoned.......died on Wednesday in Lucerne, Switzerland. He was 78.

The cause was a stroke, his spokesman said.

Mr. Rich escaped the Holocaust with his parents and became one of history’s most successful commodity traders, a billionaire who cornered the market for aluminum, silver and zinc and promoted a spot market for oil outside the control of the international petroleum giants.

Nicknamed El Matador for his steel nerves and razor-sharp acumen, Mr. Rich pushed the limits of legality and, the government said, broke them. In 1983 he was indicted on 65 criminal counts that included tax fraud and trading with Iran when it was holding American hostages......."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/business/marc-rich-pardoned-financier-dies-at-78.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[donb9006]

It kills me how so many have such strong opinions about things they know nothing about...

[billethkid]

It kills me how so many have such strong opinions about things they know nothing about...

They must be retired politicians from Washington.....eh?:D

btk

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Your concerns over their plight in life is endearing. Was it there for all the other massacres that have come before it that we somehow found a way to sit on the sidelines for?

Oil is not the enemy but big oil business is. They make billions in profits, they pay nothing in taxes and even get money back from this country. We spill blood in foreign countries to ensure the safety of their employees and the protection of their equipment and property. Not to mention that the end of the day they are not even required to sell their gas to us. There is little if anything we can do now, that day has come and gone. We are left with nothing but to play along in their game. Drill baby drill.

I often wonder where people get this kind of information. I think it comes from the old adage that if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. The sad thing is that some people actually believe this kind of nonsense.

Here's a little something about oil companies and taxes.

In 2011 the three oil giants each paid more in income taxes than any other corporation in America. Not only do they pay the most money in taxes, but they also pay the highest rates.

"ExxonMobil in 2011 made $27.3 billion in cash payments for income taxes. Chevron paid $17 billion and ConocoPhillips $10.6 billion. And not only were these the highest amounts in absolute terms, when compared with the rest of the 25 most profitable U.S. companies (see our slideshow for the full rundown of who paid what), the trio also had the highest effective tax rates. Exxon’s tax rate was 42.9%, Chevron’s was 48.3% and Conoco’s was 41.5%. That’s even higher than the 35% U.S. federal statutory rate, which is already the highest tax rate among developed nations."

Do you think that high fuel rates are good for the American public? Do you think that they are good for the economy? What would you say if we could lower gasoline and fuel oil prices by 40%. Do you realize what that would do to our economy? Do you understand that that would lower the prices of every product sold in this country? How good would that be for the poor, the homeless and the hungry?

The truth is that the government is making more from oil than all of the oil companies combined.

Read the whole story here:

Which Companies Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/)

[Monkei]

I often wonder where people get this kind of information. I think it comes from the old adage that if you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. The sad thing is that some people actually believe this kind of nonsense.

Here's a little something about oil companies and taxes.

In 2011 the three oil giants each paid more in income taxes than any other corporation in America. Not only do they pay the most money in taxes, but they also pay the highest rates.


Do you think that high fuel rates are good for the American public? Do you think that they are good for the economy? What would you say if we could lower gasoline and fuel oil prices by 40%. Do you realize what that would do to our economy? Do you understand that that would lower the prices of every product sold in this country? How good would that be for the poor, the homeless and the hungry?

The truth is that the government is making more from oil than all of the oil companies combined.

Read the whole story here:

Which Companies Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/)

Like I said, drill baby drill.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Like I said, drill baby drill.

Not sure I get your point. I was addressing the fact that you claimed that the oil companies pay no taxes. It's simply not true.

[donb9006]

Not sure I get your point. I was addressing the fact that you claimed that the oil companies pay no taxes. It's simply not true.

Corporations don't "pay taxes", you do, I do, when we buy their product/service. It all gets passed to the consumer... Keep crying that corporations don't pay enough taxes and when it's raised, so does your bill.

The problem is government doing too much, spending too much.

[Moderator]

Please return to topic of Syria actions.

Topic is not oil companies and Taxes.

[Golfingnut]

If as President Obama says, that the world drew the red line, then the world should act together to take action. America must not act against the UN on this by going alone.

[Bucco]

Bottom line for me and always has been...

The administration has placed this country in a really bad spot by ignoring and lack of any action BUT We need to back the President on this to maintain some standing in the world.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Corporations don't "pay taxes", you do, I do, when we buy their product/service. It all gets passed to the consumer... Keep crying that corporations don't pay enough taxes and when it's raised, so does your bill.

The problem is government doing too much, spending too much.

Exactly

[Monkei]

Corporations don't "pay taxes", you do, I do, when we buy their product/service. It all gets passed to the consumer... Keep crying that corporations don't pay enough taxes and when it's raised, so does your bill.

The problem is government doing too much, spending too much.

This is a classic example of how corporations don't pay taxes through loopholes and thebtriefvabtrue method of passing it on to the consumer. I find it hard to believe that people cannot see this..

[nitehawk]

This is a classic example of how corporations don't pay taxes through loopholes and thebtriefvabtrue method of passing it on to the consumer. I find it hard to believe that people cannot see this..

How did we get back on taxes

[billethkid]

I have not heard anything from Obama that indicates there is any more depth to "his" plan than any he has proposed in the past with no action, no results.
I am unsold by the many times the actions of this administration do not line up with the words.

There is absolutely no assurance the end result of the so called measured, limited, response will not erupt into a much worse situation that will drag us into something unplanned and definitely unprepared.

There is nothing but political following being promoted by the daily circus of Kerry and Hagel and a General who has no choice but to nod when beckoned!!
They are glossing over the issue of just who it is constitutes the rebel forces.

The latest measures or 60 days plus 30 more if needed, no boots on the ground, etc is so very amateurish. Since when is there any reality in the weeks longs announcement of yup we are gonna do it....we'll let you know when we are coming. Then calling out 60 or 70 missles and we are done. Done with what? Just exactly what constitutes the mission and it's objectives? I appreciate the fact there is info we will never see as referred to by Kerry about the "closed sessions".

Can you imagine what Assaad and his regime are doing in preparation for the announced attack? What would you be doing if you knew you were going to be attacked and what you were going to be attacked with.

What ever happened to the critical element of surprise in a military operation?

We have turned war both the offense and defensive aspects into a politically driven, need for consensus decision making scenario. Two aspects that will only lead to failure.......politically driven and need for consensus. There is room for neither in a real war.

So I do not trust what is being presented. I happen to be a commitment/results person and expect one to do what they say they will do, when they said it would be done and who is responsible. I have no time or respect for people who use words instead of deeds. This administration has earned my distrust.

Based on the past experience with the current administration and the lack of openness about what it is they expect to do and the results obtained.....I remain adamantly opposed to any response in Syria. I do not want to see this country invest it's assets in a politically motivated "want". Only to listen, once again, to those in charge, spew whose fault it was if things do not go well.

NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

[Bucco]

Finally maybe some good news..


"NOVO-OGARYOVO, RUSSIA President Vladimir Putin warned the West against taking one-sided action in Syria but also said Russia "doesn't exclude" supporting a U.N. resolution on punitive military strikes if it is proven that Damascus used poison gas on its own people."


Putin: Russia might let U.N. OK strike against Syria - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57601235/putin-russia-might-let-u.n-ok-strike-against-syria/)


Looks as if I spoke too soon...

"Things aren't exactly warming up between the Obama administration and Vladimir Putin, even as President Obama arrives in St. Petersburg for the G-20 summit. Putin called Obama Secretary of State John Kerry a liar over Kerry's testimony this week before Congress.

The apparent question is al Qaeda influence on the Syrian rebels, an issue Kerry has downplayed. Speaking to his human rights council on Wednesday, Putin said: "This was very unpleasant and surprising for me. We talk to them (the Americans) and we assume they are decent people, but he is lying and he knows that he is lying. This is sad."



Putin calls Kerry a liar (http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/09/05/obama-kerry-putin-syria-russia-g-20/2769683/)

[Bucco]

I have not heard anything from Obama that indicates there is any more depth to "his" plan than any he has proposed in the past with no action, no results.
I am unsold by the many times the actions of this administration do not line up with the words.

There is absolutely no assurance the end result of the so called measured, limited, response will not erupt into a much worse situation that will drag us into something unplanned and definitely unprepared.

There is nothing but political following being promoted by the daily circus of Kerry and Hagel and a General who has no choice but to nod when beckoned!!
They are glossing over the issue of just who it is constitutes the rebel forces.

The latest measures or 60 days plus 30 more if needed, no boots on the ground, etc is so very amateurish. Since when is there any reality in the weeks longs announcement of yup we are gonna do it....we'll let you know when we are coming. Then calling out 60 or 70 missles and we are done. Done with what? Just exactly what constitutes the mission and it's objectives? I appreciate the fact there is info we will never see as referred to by Kerry about the "closed sessions".

Can you imagine what Assaad and his regime are doing in preparation for the announced attack? What would you be doing if you knew you were going to be attacked and what you were going to be attacked with.

What ever happened to the critical element of surprise in a military operation?

We have turned war both the offense and defensive aspects into a politically driven, need for consensus decision making scenario. Two aspects that will only lead to failure.......politically driven and need for consensus. There is room for neither in a real war.

So I do not trust what is being presented. I happen to be a commitment/results person and expect one to do what they say they will do, when they said it would be done and who is responsible. I have no time or respect for people who use words instead of deeds. This administration has earned my distrust.

Based on the past experience with the current administration and the lack of openness about what it is they expect to do and the results obtained.....I remain adamantly opposed to any response in Syria. I do not want to see this country invest it's assets in a politically motivated "want". Only to listen, once again, to those in charge, spew whose fault it was if things do not go well.

NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

I can't say I disagree with much of what you say, and in fact check the link I attached to the post right before this regarding the rebels. I totally agree with you...only place we differ is that while all this is true, we do not need the world looking at us puzzled and thinking weak anymore than they already do.

A limited strike to save some face and get out. As always (same with the affordable care) policies made in back rooms with no consultation and emphasis on the political aspects cause everyone to scurry and save face for the country.

[PennBF]

During WWII I was about 11 years old and our father was a Chaplin. I can remember being in Arlington Cemetery and watching as he conducted combined ceremonies as he buried 10-12 servicemen at the same time and their family's sitting by the graves, I remember going on visits to the Military Hospitals and seeing the servicemen with legs missing, some with bones covered in "mesh" awaiting amputation, or living at an R&R location for returning wounded servicemen and playing ping pong with them as they struggled to play. This is what awaits the ones who are being considered to go to war based on a tremendous amount of poor intelligence, no absolute identified mission. This is what they are being asked to give their life up for. This is not playing soldier in the back yard as a kid, this is getting serious wounds and getting actually killed. I sure as heck would not want my son or daughter giving their life up for the stupid statement regarding a "Red Line"
Think it over before saying you would be willing to see that 18 or 19 year old kid being shot and killed for what they are talking about. It is sad so many don't think of the kid falling in the field after being shot or the pilot being taken prisoner and being tortured. It is not abstract it is real.:mad:

[donb9006]

During WWII I was about 11 years old and our father was a Chaplin. I can remember being in Arlington Cemetery and watching as he conducted combined ceremonies as he buried 10-12 servicemen at the same time and their family's sitting by the graves, I remember going on visits to the Military Hospitals and seeing the servicemen with legs missing, some with bones covered in "mesh" awaiting amputation, or living at an R&R location for returning wounded servicemen and playing ping pong with them as they struggled to play. This is what awaits the ones who are being considered to go to war based on a tremendous amount of poor intelligence, no absolute identified mission. This is what they are being asked to give their life up for. This is not playing soldier in the back yard as a kid, this is getting serious wounds and getting actually killed. I sure as heck would not want my son or daughter giving their life up for the stupid statement regarding a "Red Line"
Think it over before saying you would be willing to see that 18 or 19 year old kid being shot and killed for what they are talking about. It is sad so many don't think of the kid falling in the field after being shot or the pilot being taken prisoner and being tortured. It is not abstract it is real.:mad:

I can't remember the last "just" war, where there was an actual threat. They've all been proven to be based on lies.

This Syria thing is part of a bigger plan. Middle eastern countries are being destabilized at an alarming rate...something is afoot...

[Bucco]

During WWII I was about 11 years old and our father was a Chaplin. I can remember being in Arlington Cemetery and watching as he conducted combined ceremonies as he buried 10-12 servicemen at the same time and their family's sitting by the graves, I remember going on visits to the Military Hospitals and seeing the servicemen with legs missing, some with bones covered in "mesh" awaiting amputation, or living at an R&R location for returning wounded servicemen and playing ping pong with them as they struggled to play. This is what awaits the ones who are being considered to go to war based on a tremendous amount of poor intelligence, no absolute identified mission. This is what they are being asked to give their life up for. This is not playing soldier in the back yard as a kid, this is getting serious wounds and getting actually killed. I sure as heck would not want my son or daughter giving their life up for the stupid statement regarding a "Red Line"
Think it over before saying you would be willing to see that 18 or 19 year old kid being shot and killed for what they are talking about. It is sad so many don't think of the kid falling in the field after being shot or the pilot being taken prisoner and being tortured. It is not abstract it is real.:mad:

I am hoping based on these hearings that we make a strike or two to save the Presidents credibility and then out. We have totally ignored this situation (I was told this was not an important issue in the unnamed forum) so let's save face and try to figure out a mature informed policy.

[capecodbob]

I have not heard anything from Obama that indicates there is any more depth to "his" plan than any he has proposed in the past with no action, no results.
I am unsold by the many times the actions of this administration do not line up with the words.

There is absolutely no assurance the end result of the so called measured, limited, response will not erupt into a much worse situation that will drag us into something unplanned and definitely unprepared.

There is nothing but political following being promoted by the daily circus of Kerry and Hagel and a General who has no choice but to nod when beckoned!!
They are glossing over the issue of just who it is constitutes the rebel forces.

The latest measures or 60 days plus 30 more if needed, no boots on the ground, etc is so very amateurish. Since when is there any reality in the weeks longs announcement of yup we are gonna do it....we'll let you know when we are coming. Then calling out 60 or 70 missles and we are done. Done with what? Just exactly what constitutes the mission and it's objectives? I appreciate the fact there is info we will never see as referred to by Kerry about the "closed sessions".

Can you imagine what Assaad and his regime are doing in preparation for the announced attack? What would you be doing if you knew you were going to be attacked and what you were going to be attacked with.

What ever happened to the critical element of surprise in a military operation?

We have turned war both the offense and defensive aspects into a politically driven, need for consensus decision making scenario. Two aspects that will only lead to failure.......politically driven and need for consensus. There is room for neither in a real war.

So I do not trust what is being presented. I happen to be a commitment/results person and expect one to do what they say they will do, when they said it would be done and who is responsible. I have no time or respect for people who use words instead of deeds. This administration has earned my distrust.

Based on the past experience with the current administration and the lack of openness about what it is they expect to do and the results obtained.....I remain adamantly opposed to any response in Syria. I do not want to see this country invest it's assets in a politically motivated "want". Only to listen, once again, to those in charge, spew whose fault it was if things do not go well.

NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

Good Post!!! :thumbup:

[wendyquat]

I have not heard anything from Obama that indicates there is any more depth to "his" plan than any he has proposed in the past with no action, no results.
I am unsold by the many times the actions of this administration do not line up with the words.

There is absolutely no assurance the end result of the so called measured, limited, response will not erupt into a much worse situation that will drag us into something unplanned and definitely unprepared.

There is nothing but political following being promoted by the daily circus of Kerry and Hagel and a General who has no choice but to nod when beckoned!!
They are glossing over the issue of just who it is constitutes the rebel forces.

The latest measures or 60 days plus 30 more if needed, no boots on the ground, etc is so very amateurish. Since when is there any reality in the weeks longs announcement of yup we are gonna do it....we'll let you know when we are coming. Then calling out 60 or 70 missles and we are done. Done with what? Just exactly what constitutes the mission and it's objectives? I appreciate the fact there is info we will never see as referred to by Kerry about the "closed sessions".

Can you imagine what Assaad and his regime are doing in preparation for the announced attack? What would you be doing if you knew you were going to be attacked and what you were going to be attacked with.

What ever happened to the critical element of surprise in a military operation?

We have turned war both the offense and defensive aspects into a politically driven, need for consensus decision making scenario. Two aspects that will only lead to failure.......politically driven and need for consensus. There is room for neither in a real war.

So I do not trust what is being presented. I happen to be a commitment/results person and expect one to do what they say they will do, when they said it would be done and who is responsible. I have no time or respect for people who use words instead of deeds. This administration has earned my distrust.

Based on the past experience with the current administration and the lack of openness about what it is they expect to do and the results obtained.....I remain adamantly opposed to any response in Syria. I do not want to see this country invest it's assets in a politically motivated "want". Only to listen, once again, to those in charge, spew whose fault it was if things do not go well.

NO THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

btk

My sentiments exactly! Thank you for spelling it out!

[PennBF]

It is sad that some want to do a strike in order to "save the President's creditability". Based on this it Is OK to have planes shot down, pilots killed
or captured and tortured in order to save the Presidents creditability. How sad anyone would support a loss of life of a young American in order to save the President's reputation. The Chief of The Army admitted in the hearings they don't even have a mission plan. Translated it means they don't have a plan so we would allow our young people to be killed based on a wild guess? How sick of society have we become? :(

[Bucco]

It is sad that some want to do a strike in order to "save the President's creditability". Based on this it Is OK to have planes shot down, pilots killed
or captured and tortured in order to save the Presidents creditability. How sad anyone would support a loss of life of a young American in order to save the President's reputation. The Chief of The Army admitted in the hearings they don't even have a mission plan. Translated it means they don't have a plan so we would allow our young people to be killed based on a wild guess? How sick of society have we become? :(

I am one who has said this, HOWEVER, having watched the hearings I see, at least from what the resolution says and how the hearings have gone, no fear of what you are saying. Perhaps you know more than I but I understand the missles would be from our warships off shore.

Lest you think I care little about our armed forces, I will not bore you with comments but suggest if you care, read my posts from the past and you may be shocked.

I have always been a foe of this President, yet I truly in my heart think if we do not cover his a** and reckless naive attitude, the consequences will be more severe. I believe that what happens in the mideast DOES MATTER to this country. I believe that the USA would become even more of a laughing stock than at present, and that all we are doing is delaying the inevitable.

I do not care if there is a regime change..absolutely do not care outside my sympathy for the citizens, but I felt that way in so many countries over the years that we ignore.

To embolden those in the region in anyway, in my opinion is a mistake.

Listen, any action is way past due, and you are correct.....the perils are greater now than they would have been when folks were screaming and being ignored about this subject, and the same thing is going to come up again and again.

It is past due..there are risks, but in my opinion, the fellow who brought up Benghaze was spot on....we had americans killed there and did nothing....and I think that action now will eventually save american lives.

I know the administration got us here and I am loathe to save his reputation and credibility, but lets face it...he is the person who represents our country. I will be just as upset when the congress has to save his "bacon" with health care. IN both cases, had he put aside his political agendas, and at least consulted, we would be better off in both ways.

I want nobody to die....but I think more will die if we do not send a message now....again mucho late, but at least a message.

[Bucco]

We are in serious trouble with this President. His statement denying he made a statement about the Red line is just another complete lie. Can you imagine ANY president making a statement "It's not my creditability on the line, it's America's or Congress. That is like saying it' not my problem. it's America's problem, it's the republicans problem. Blame everything on everyone else. He's the Commander in Chief and has no clue how to handle this crisis in the Middle East.
I think Obama would love to read in the NY Times "For the First time in history, Congress led by republicans denies the President. And after that it will be racist republicans denied President. Obama is counting on a no vote in the house so he can get this headline. Nothing is about what the American people want. It's all about HIM.

Obama puts in charge of trying to sell us the use of force one of the biggest anti-war protestors ever.

The only enemy Obama is out to destroy is US !! And we are watching the country unfold right in front of our eyes. My God, what chance do our children have ? Not even the President takes responsibility for this own actions. How sad


Right after each of the last two elections, in the unnamed forum, I was told by posters who knew how I opposed this President, that I need to suck it up and understand who is in charge. That I need to support him because HE is the President. That was said to rile me up, and as sad as the meaning of that and intent was, it is true.

It is difficult to ignore what has happened over the years and especially in the lazy, uninvolved foreign policy toward anything that does not serve a political purpose.

Having said that, I do not think there is anything to gain by opposing this resolution as presented. I will support him on this limited action, and hope he learns that saying things does not make them true. There has to be facts to back them up no matter how smart you may think you are.

No matter who, he will leave (after congress fixes also health care), and we will still be the USA. I do not want my country to be viewed as the rest of the world is viewing us now and not backing the President, whomever that is, will simply make us open for more ridicule and in the long run, to me, more danger.

[Bucco]

Right after each of the last two elections, in the unnamed forum, I was told by posters who knew how I opposed this President, that I need to suck it up and understand who is in charge. That I need to support him because HE is the President. That was said to rile me up, and as sad as the meaning of that and intent was, it is true.

It is difficult to ignore what has happened over the years and especially in the lazy, uninvolved foreign policy toward anything that does not serve a political purpose.

Having said that, I do not think there is anything to gain by opposing this resolution as presented. I will support him on this limited action, and hope he learns that saying things does not make them true. There has to be facts to back them up no matter how smart you may think you are.

No matter who, he will leave (after congress fixes also health care), and we will still be the USA. I do not want my country to be viewed as the rest of the world is viewing us now and not backing the President, whomever that is, will simply make us open for more ridicule and in the long run, to me, more danger.

AFTER DOING SOME READING, PERHAPS I AM CHANGING MY MIND.

"A Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman warned any military intervention in Syria would create a nuclear disaster.

“If a warhead, by design or by chance, were to hit the Miniature Neutron Source Reactor (MSNR) near Damascus, the consequences could be catastrophic,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Aleksandr Lukashevich stated, according to Russia Today.

Lukashevich said if a military strike were launched without seeking approval from the United Nations Security Council that new suffering for other countries of the Middle East and North Africa would occur. He added that the region could be at risk of “contamination by highly enriched uranium and it would no longer be possible to account for nuclear material, its safety and control.”

Russia Warns Of Nuclear Disaster If Syria Is Hit « CBS DC (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/09/05/russia-warns-of-nuclear-disaster-if-syria-is-hit/)

"The Syrian rebels posed casually, standing over their prisoners with firearms pointed down at the shirtless and terrified men.
The prisoners, seven in all, were captured Syrian soldiers. Five were trussed, their backs marked with red welts. They kept their faces pressed to the dirt as the rebels’ commander recited a bitter revolutionary verse.

“For fifty years, they are companions to corruption,” he said. “We swear to the Lord of the Throne, that this is our oath: We will take revenge.”

The moment the poem ended, the commander, known as “the Uncle,” fired a bullet into the back of the first prisoner’s head. His gunmen followed suit, promptly killing all the men at their feet. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?hp&_r=0

"Russia says it has compiled a 100-page report detailing what it says is evidence that Syrian rebels, not forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, were behind a deadly sarin gas attack in an Aleppo suburb earlier this year.

In a statement posted on the Russian Foreign Ministry’s website late Wednesday. Russia said the report had been delivered to the United Nations in July and includes detailed scientific analysis of samples that Russian technicians collected at the site of the alleged attack, Khan al Asal."

Read more here: Russia says it's compiled 100-page report blaming Syrian rebels for a chemical weapons attack | McClatchy (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russia-releases-100-page-report.html#storylink=cpy)

Mr President, why have you allowed so much time to go by and ignored what is happening and why are you now trying to lay this on the back of congress when you did not even want to come to them. Why are you talking as you have today about the red line not being yours. Why will you not talk about Benghazi.

What a mess we are in now.....I am changing....maybe let him be embarassed by this and the oncoming train wreck with health care.

I think now the end game is to blame congress for whatever happens and to try and insure he is credited if anything goes well. I never believed quite that badly, but getting there now

[rp001]

Sadly I believe this subject matter has become nothing more than an open opportunity for some folks to bash the president. It's time for support and to at least attempt to pose a united front. The debate is over. Time to pray.

[billethkid]

I cannot support that which I have yet to be convinced about. There are far too many unknowns and far too many holes in what is being presented.

I am the first to back what our country stands for and NEEDS to do, however I will not back that which I do not believe is for the good of the country. And I also do not believe the action being proposed will accomplish what has been described as a "punishment" for Assaad. And the result will be thousands more innocents already suffaerable lives will be drastically affected and made even worse.

I cannot back supporting a military step that is at best an ill defined hope. And if the first step is ill defined what hope could there be for the subsequent steps that will be generated as a result of the so called punishment.

It was stated today by one of the high ranking generals that it would take 75,000 American troops on the ground to manage and maintain the poison gas locations to have any hope of controlling what we started.

In the event the ill defined step one is approved by the congress, that approval allows Obama to go beyond step one if need be.....with no further approval required.

And I would say on the contrary we are seeing and hearing a united front from the American people....they, like me are NOT IN SUPPORT of going into Syria based on what we have seen and heard to date.

Think about lighting a fuse on a bomb that one does not know how long the fuse is....or how big the bomb is.....or if it could set off other explosions i.e gas and oil storeage etc.....or whether the bomb fallout will be harmful to what ever.....and so on......that is the Syria scenario being played to date.

As some have stated pray the request gets defeated. The fallout from that will affect far fewer lives and ways of life.

btk

[Bucco]

Sadly I believe this subject matter has become nothing more than an open opportunity for some folks to bash the president. It's time for support and to at least attempt to pose a united front. The debate is over. Time to pray.

I respectfully disagree with you. Obviously your political hackles are geared up, and I suggest to you, the moderators and all THAT is EXACTLY WHY we are at this stage.

This is a discussion of major proportions to this country and the world. It is very difficult to discuss our countries foreign policy, which is the base for all of this, without discussing the President who is its author.

To not allow discussion of such a major event such as is being played out through the world because somebody has their feelings hurt due to criticism of the author, would be wrong in my opinion.

I, if you actually read any posts have tried very hard to propose a united front, but I am also a realist and perhaps that is not good right now.

If you run for the highest office, and call any criticism of the policy for which YOU AND YOU ALONE are responsible for to be political attacks, this country and anyone who does not allow debate on that are taking us the wrong way.

You cannot ignore Barrack Obama in this or any discussion of foreign policy....he is the singular author of it.

[Shimpy]

I respectfully disagree with you. Obviously your political hackles are geared up, and I suggest to you, the moderators and all THAT is EXACTLY WHY we are at this stage.

This is a discussion of major proportions to this country and the world. It is very difficult to discuss our countries foreign policy, which is the base for all of this, without discussing the President who is its author.

To not allow discussion of such a major event such as is being played out through the world because somebody has their feelings hurt due to criticism of the author, would be wrong in my opinion.

I, if you actually read any posts have tried very hard to propose a united front, but I am also a realist and perhaps that is not good right now.

If you run for the highest office, and call any criticism of the policy for which YOU AND YOU ALONE are responsible for to be political attacks, this country and anyone who does not allow debate on that are taking us the wrong way.

You cannot ignore Barrack Obama in this or any discussion of foreign policy....he is the singular author of it.

:thumbup:

[Bucco]

I want to apologize to any offended by all my posts on this subject. I consider the consequences of where we are right now, AND how we got here to be of vital importance to this country.

Having said that I offer the below, and I know there are those who question some of the links, and to them I say....this is pretty important and you should close you political mind and open the country mind. There is a video clip with this if you wish.

"The individual in the clip, Nadeem Baloosh, is a member of an insurgent group called Riyadh Al Abdeen, which is active in the Latakia area of Syria.
Baloosh speaks of “chemicals which produce lethal and deadly gases that I possess,” before going on to state, “We decided to harm them through their women and kids.”
Baloosh ponders if it is acceptable to harm women and children before quoting the Koran, “Fight them as they fight you. ” He goes on to quote Osama Bin Laden (whom other rebel groups have openly praised).
“We’ll kill their women and children like Sheikh Osama Bin Laden said – “until they cease killing our women and kids,” he states.
Baloosh goes on to talk about the Syrian Army approaching the area where his rebel group was located, before stating, “So we had the idea that this weapon was very powerful and effective to repel them, we announced if they approached one meter, everything is permitted.”
“We will strike them in their homes, we will turn their day into night and their night into day,” adds Baloosh.
The footage adds to the increasing weight of evidence that suggests US-backed rebels possess and have used chemical weapons on more than one occasion, although such reports have been habitually downplayed by the mainstream media."

» Video: Syrian Rebel Admits Using Chemical Weapons Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/video-syrian-rebel-admits-using-chemical-weapons/)

I have expressed my concern over who we help, and thus have been trying to find out what I can.

This is a bit disconcerting. Please do not say that this is how they live....fine but we are preparing to assist these folks with no explained strategy at all.

[ilovetv]

Here's a good question/assertion, by Patrick Buchanan:

"About the debate on this war, there is an aspect of the absurd.

We are told we must punish Assad for killing Syrians with gas, but we do not want Assad’s regime to fall. Which raises a question: How many Syrians must we kill with missiles to teach Assad he cannot kill any more Syrians with gas? Artillery, fine. Just no gas......"


Read more at Just whose war is this? (http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/just-whose-war-is-this/#DIpFRuA0kIDUM0D2.99)

[Bucco]

Here's a good question/assertion, by Patrick Buchanan:

"About the debate on this war, there is an aspect of the absurd.

We are told we must punish Assad for killing Syrians with gas, but we do not want Assad’s regime to fall. Which raises a question: How many Syrians must we kill with missiles to teach Assad he cannot kill any more Syrians with gas? Artillery, fine. Just no gas......"


Read more at Just whose war is this? (http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/just-whose-war-is-this/#DIpFRuA0kIDUM0D2.99)

Last night and early this morning I was still saying ...do it to give support. As I have read today, my mind has changed rapidly.

Your link was interesting....this from that link.....

"Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Martin Dempsey is having trouble even defining the mission. While Obama says it will be an in-and-out strike of hours, a “shot across the bow,” John McCain says the Senate resolution authorizes robust strikes, lethal aid to the rebels and a campaign to bring down Bashar Assad.

If the Republican Party backs this war, it will own this war."

That last sentence, in listening to the President, and a few members of congress is pointing much to much to political games.

But how do we define this, without the President himself telling us what his plans are or how extensive the attacks will be ? I did note today he cancelled a meeting with some union leaders on Monday so perhaps we will hear more specifics.

I am sure that many on here think one of two things.....it is silly to spend time discussing this OR as a poster has says, this is just an excuse to bash the President.

I hope EVERYONE gets educated on this to see just how serious this could become. This is not trivial. Simply check the weaponry available to Syria and who they have as allies. Check our deployment of ships we have in the Red Sea and Med, and then check the soviet deployment right behind them.

As far as bashing the President, this is serious enough, I sincerely pray I can come on here and praise him for steering us out of this, but in the meantime, he and he alone authors our foreign policy...this is not a political rally error..we are talking death and destruction.

[rp001]

I do not agree with the decision to Strategically hit Syria. That being said I believe our president, Obama, is privy to info not made public. Just because we don't know all the facts doesn't mean there is not necessity. For the first time in many yrs, this do nothing congress has actually come together in a semi bi partisan manner to agree on something, anything. And contrary with many folks on this thread, during the last eclipse President Obama was not trying to steal the moon.

[Golfingnut]

I do not agree with the decision to Strategically hit Syria. That being said I believe our president, Obama, is privy to info not made public. Just because we don't know all the facts doesn't mean there is not necessity. For the first time in many yrs, this do nothing congress has actually come together in a semi bi partisan manner to agree on something, anything. And contrary with many folks on this thread, during the last eclipse President Obama was not trying to steal the moon.

Well said. I also do not think a strike is the answer but as you say, we do not know what the President knows nor should we. America has dune this in the past without a smoking gun so I am happy we are going slowly on this one. The entire world knows we are the biggest guy in the ring and I disagree with comments that we must go after a country that could not beat up North Dakota just to flex our muscles.

Until it is sanctioned by the UN or at the very least other world leaders publicly asking for action.

[Golfingnut]

Sadly I believe this subject matter has become nothing more than an open opportunity for some folks to bash the president. It's time for support and to at least attempt to pose a united front. The debate is over. Time to pray.

I think he has too much support on this action. I see bipartisan agreement and bipartisan disagreement and for the first time in years. For that reason, I will support the president if and when there is more agreement from more world powers. Also, is it not a result of all the praying that has the Middle East in such turmoil?

[Bucco]

I do not agree with the decision to Strategically hit Syria. That being said I believe our president, Obama, is privy to info not made public. Just because we don't know all the facts doesn't mean there is not necessity. For the first time in many yrs, this do nothing congress has actually come together in a semi bi partisan manner to agree on something, anything. And contrary with many folks on this thread, during the last eclipse President Obama was not trying to steal the moon.

You are correct that we do not know what he knows.

This congress, if you had not noticed, is NOT pulling together. I was for backing the president, but have changed as many in congress.

One more thing..we do not know things he knows for sure, but we also do not know even his strategies, his policies. He does not speak to us.

Your words have a very familiar ring to them.

Again, your personal and political love for the president is getting in the way of bombing people with no strategy, of assisting very very bad people to become more powerful, and you are ignoring the confused stance he is presenting to the world

I would have more to say about your comments on a do nothing congress, but it would get political..suffice to say, you cannot do anything if not consulted.

I might add that this thread better represents what this country thinks right now

[Golfingnut]

I often support the president, because he is the president. This issue is one that I feel he is wrong and is too dangerous to give my support.

I am yet to be convinced that Syria opposition forces would improve upon their current dictator nor on the security of the US.

Let me add.... I am very happy to see this thread has not been partisan.

[gomoho]

I have been on the fence with this - torn between my emotional heartache for those being sacrificed and is it any of our business. I am now settled with my belief that there are too many unknowns in this situation for us to get involved without the support of the rest of the world. This is not our battle - if anyone needs to be punished for using chemical weapons it should be done by the world community not the US.

As far as our credibility - it's already shot. The minute the President drew that red line (which he did draw - not the world community that he claims) and didn't cross it when he had the proof he was waiting for it showed weakness. Today I am glad he waited because as more information comes out we really don't know who is fighting who in Syria. Our credibility has degraded since he has been in office with no clear foreign policy and this could be seen as the straw that breaks the camels back. Had he not drawn the red line to begin with (hindsight is 20/20) this would probably be a different ball game right now.

I pray for the safety of our county and the restoration of respectability to the office of The President of the United States.

[billethkid]

in the face of the congress leaning away from support, the American people overwhelmingly do not support, the UN does not support and the International community at large does not support, just what rationale can Obama contrive to go it alone?

The politics would suggest do not attack Syria. So the only reason he would in light of the above? Personal?......for what?

btk

[gomoho]

Just moments ago at his press conference the President said he has a good feeling what the American people want - so I guess that means no war???

[ilovetv]

in the face of the congress leaning away from support, the American people overwhelmingly do not support, the UN does not support and the International community at large does not support, just what rationale can Obama contrive to go it alone?

The politics would suggest do not attack Syria. So the only reason he would in light of the above? Personal?......for what?

btk

Q: For what?

A: Diversion.

We haven't heard a word in the U.S. media about the bloodbath and chaos in Egypt since this Syrian mess rose to the top of the headlines. Egypt cannot have suddenly become a sanctuary of peace and tranquility. News of our involvement there was coming out as bungled and flip floppy. Same thing with what we were really doing in Benghazi. This decision by us on attacking Syria is a chance to look decisive and transparent.

[mrsanborn]

Remember the 1980-1988 Iraq Iran war? Do the research about how the US gave the ingredients for chemical and bio WMD to Iraq and helped to target Iranian forces. When Saddam Insane used them on the Kurds, we did nothing. Yes, you can say that happened 30 plus years ago and America is now morally stronger. LOL. With 100K already dead in Syria, we now feel we need to launch a strike because 1400 people were killed by a gas attack?
While we always point out that Russia and China put the kabash on every humane thing we want to do, notice their defense spending against their GDP.
We need to fix America before we try to fix a world that does not want to be fixed. Especially by us.
Peru is more of a threat to our security with it's counterfeiting than Syria. Are we going to "put one across Peru's bow"?

[Bucco]

Q: For what?

A: Diversion.

We haven't heard a word in the U.S. media about the bloodbath and chaos in Egypt since this Syrian mess rose to the top of the headlines. Egypt cannot have suddenly become a sanctuary of peace and tranquility. News of our involvement there was coming out as bungled and flip floppy. Same thing with what we were really doing in Benghazi. This decision by us on attacking Syria is a chance to look decisive and transparent.

I sincerely hope you are wrong.

A lot pointing to the political games here, but I am going to ignore that for the time being. My problem now is that the President is making it worse, in my opinion. He now talks as if he was always coming to congress and everybody including his shocked staff knows that is not so. He talks as if the "red line" is not his...he did not do that. If they do not pass and he starts to blame congress for inaction, and if they do pass, and it backfires and he blames congress....deal is sealed then.

BUT....and those who have been on here for awhile know this hurts...but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

[ilovetv]

I sincerely hope you are wrong.

A lot pointing to the political games here, but I am going to ignore that for the time being. My problem now is that the President is making it worse, in my opinion. He now talks as if he was always coming to congress and everybody including his shocked staff knows that is not so. He talks as if the "red line" is not his...he did not do that. If they do not pass and he starts to blame congress for inaction, and if they do pass, and it backfires and he blames congress....deal is sealed then.

BUT....and those who have been on here for awhile know this hurts...but for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this.

I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of our troops and families, all of us, and the President and his family. Iran is more insane than usual today in the headlines (See Drudge). It's horrific and I don't want to even think about it.

God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is our only hope and he's waiting for our prayers.

[justjim]

It didn't take the British this long to make up their minds. Why is it so hard to get a vote up or down on any issue in our Congress? To answer my own question---because they (career Politicans) are always running a re-election campaign. Oh, for term limits!

[shcisamax]

I believe there is overwhelming response by constituent calls to their senators and congressmen..like 100 to one AGAINST going to war from what I heard from my senator up north.
After thinking about this quite a bit, even though my heart absolutely breaks for the innocents, and let's face it, it is the innocents who are affected by those few in power, until America stops being the international police, the rest of the world will not put themselves on the line. They just wait for the USA to jump in and let the USA take the heat. Time to back off, take care of our problems at home with our own, and let the rest of the world adjust to a new role in international citizenship. I assume initially some will see it as a victory and that the US is now weak, but on the flip side, our "allies" will recognize we aren't going to be the default anymore and they are going to have to pony up going forward.

[Golfingnut]

I believe there is overwhelming response by constituent calls to their senators and congressmen..like 100 to one AGAINST going to war from what I heard from my senator up north.
After thinking about this quite a bit, even though my heart absolutely breaks for the innocents, and let's face it, it is the innocents who are affected by those few in power, until America stops being the international police, the rest of the world will not put themselves on the line. They just wait for the USA to jump in and let the USA take the heat. Time to back off, take care of our problems at home with our own, and let the rest of the world adjust to a new role in international citizenship. I assume initially some will see it as a victory and that the US is now weak, but on the flip side, our "allies" will recognize we aren't going to be the default anymore and they are going to have to pony up going forward.

I very much agree. Everybody knows we have the power, now it is time to let someone else take the reigns.

[shcisamax]

I very much agree. Everybody knows we have the power, now it is time to let someone else take the reigns.


Well put!

[janmcn]

It didn't take the British this long to make up their minds. Why is it so hard to get a vote up or down on any issue in our Congress? To answer my own question---because they (career Politicans) are always running a re-election campaign. Oh, for term limits!


Another reason is their August recess isn't over until September 9, and Speaker Boehner elected not to call them back for a special session. When the House of Representatives returns to work on Monday they will work a grand total of nine days in September, then go on another recess.

[Bucco]

Another reason is their August recess isn't over until September 9, and Speaker Boehner elected not to call them back for a special session. When the House of Representatives returns to work on Monday they will work a grand total of nine days in September, then go on another recess.

The Presiden shocked even his own advisors when he abruptly changed his mind while on a walk Friday afternoon...that was LAST FRIDAY.

Committee meetings held this week in both chambers....Not sure how they could have been convened and finished quicker....they had to be done. If there was a quicker way.....please advise.

So, here we are less than a week since he made the decision, about 6 days since he publicly announced this decision. Committee meetings are over and the President was out of town all of that time (not blaming him..just pointing it out that HE is one who wants this and HE was not available to talk to anyone)..

Please advise on how this could have been done quicker !!!!!!

Congress is just a part of the problem....even with the leaders in 24 hours or so supporting him. Pretty quickly.

"DAVID AXELROD said on "Morning Joe" that Obama has to “make the case” to the American people on Syria and do it on “as big a stage as possible. ... The president needs to make the case and give them the arguments and the cover, frankly, for a yes vote, and that’s very, very important." --Tal Kopan"

POLITICO Playbook - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/playbook/)

To those of you who are still thinking POLITICALLY.....President versus house...Democrat versus Republican, etc.....which would be the ONLY reason for the post I am replying to....THIS IS NOT POLITICAL, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY. This is not about bashing the President as some of the political hacks think.

The congress has been pretty bi partisan in NOT being partisan on this. This has nothing to do with any timing...who is on vacation or who is not.....it is much to serious for the political rantings.

Please explain how what is done could have been done quicker under the circumstances. You do understand that the WORLD heard about what the President had decided LESS THAN A WEEK AGO. No hints at all until his walk.

IF this is HURRY UP AND GET IT DONE about bombing, we got ourselves a problem

[billethkid]

It didn't take the British this long to make up their minds. Why is it so hard to get a vote up or down on any issue in our Congress? To answer my own question---because they (career Politicans) are always running a re-election campaign. Oh, for term limits!

because that is the way Washington works. Some will say no well knowing there will be some negotiating to get them to change their votes. That some will hold out and play the game until they get what ever concessions the were seeking from Obama. Remember the back room deals made by these hypocrites when doing the same thing on Obamascare.

Those who switch are the ultimate hypocrites/liars/decievers of we the people.

Keep in mind that all the actions by those from Obama on down are purely political. The plight of people whether USA or Syrians or Egyptians, et al has very little to do with the process other than being a facilitating entity.

Very sad.

btk

[Bucco]

because that is the way Washington works. Some will say no well knowing there will be some negotiating to get them to change their votes. That some will hold out and play the game until they get what ever concessions the were seeking from Obama. Remember the back room deals made by these hypocrites when doing the same thing on Obamascare.

Those who switch are the ultimate hypocrites/liars/decievers of we the people.

Keep in mind that all the actions by those from Obama on down are purely political. The plight of people whether USA or Syrians or Egyptians, et al has very little to do with the process other than being a facilitating entity.

Very sad.

btk

"Keep in mind that all the actions by those from Obama on down are purely political."

Sadly, and I pray I am wrong, every time he talks the last few days this statement of yours keeps ringing in my ears..... I hope not...I really do.

You cannot play politics....Dem versus Rep.....WH versus house, etc with foreign affairs. Even some foreign leaders can see some of it.

"Do congressional Republicans face an impossible choice between being politically used or undermining U.S. prestige in the Mideast? The corner that President Obama has trapped them in is just an illusion.

The most important fact about the president's decision to ask Congress' permission before striking Syria is that it is 100% political.

Even the American Enterprise Institute's hawkish Marc Thiessen warned that Obama's limited strikes "will likely fail, and he wants Congress on the hook so that Republicans cannot criticize his Syria policy when it implodes." Therefore, "Republicans should not take the bait" by voting yes."

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/090313-669628-republicans-asked-to-endorse-obama-foreign-policy-incompetence.htm#ixzz2e95rOL00
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

[gomoho]

I don't think most of the country is against this action against political lines, but unfortunately those that claim to represent us are definitely doing so - otherwise it would have already been decided "we the people" do not want this war. Anyone catch Senator McCain's town meeting? He clearly wasn't concerned about how his constituents felt because obviously he and the others believe they know better than us.

[Bucco]

I don't think most of the country is against this action against political lines, but unfortunately those that claim to represent us are definitely doing so - otherwise it would have already been decided "we the people" do not want this war. Anyone catch Senator McCain's town meeting? He clearly wasn't concerned about how his constituents felt because obviously he and the others believe they know better than us.

I just said to someone in a pm.......blind loyalty to a man (Obama) I have a real problem with....blind loyalty to a philosophy (Liberalism) I can respect and find ground to discuss.

Point is....this is not about Obama, or Democrats or Republicans or any thing even close yet folks are still crying that game.

I was torn...I posted how I would support the President, then I did some reading on WHO we would help...on how limited this thing was, and now the politics being played.

That did it for me.no politics when it comes to foreign affairs....that is simply not acceptable in anyway to me. I am confused about what our strategy is...what do we want to accomplish and how....I am confused about the Presidents remarks on the red line, and his constant referring to congress recently when he ignored them up to last weekend. I am confused about who makes up the groups we would be helping with any kind of bombing.

All of that says NO to the bombing..not politically, just simply pragmatic. I will listen closely to the President on Tuesday as I have for the last week or so, but cannot imagine what he will tell me that he hasnt told me yet, and frankly if he did tell me something new, I would ask why he didnt say that before.

If our chambers vote on how they feel in their hearts, without any consideration to fall out or political consideration I respect all of them. If anyone is playing politics of any kind, lets look at getting rid of them.

[gomoho]

"If our chambers vote on how they feel in their hearts, without any consideration to fall out or political consideration I respect all of them. If anyone is playing politics of any kind, lets look at getting rid of them."


Bucco - I thought they were supposed to vote what "WE" feel in our hearts - not what they fell in their hearts.

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=gomoho;740672]"If our chambers vote on how they feel in their hearts, without any consideration to fall out or political consideration I respect all of them. If anyone is playing politics of any kind, lets look at getting rid of them."

"Bucco - I thought they were supposed to vote what "WE" feel in our hearts - not what they fell in their hearts. "


Yes and no in my opinion. The vote is so important because in theory you should vote for the person who will vote the closest to how you feel. That will never be infallible....but if you do your homework, whomever you vote for should be close.

That is because, as a poster pointed out but for a different reason, they have access to things we do not. I am certainly not trying to get them off the hook in anyway, an they have the town halls to hear us, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, we need to do our homework before we vote. All votes do not get this much attention.

I am more concerned and will never forget...ever...our representatives turning this country upside down and voting on bills that become law that they do not even read....they just follow instruction.

But thanks for bringing that up....that always makes an interesting discussion.

[shcisamax]

Bucco - I thought they were supposed to vote what "WE" feel in our hearts - not what they feel in their hearts.

We know, for the most part, they vote for what works for them...That said, this might be the first time in a very long time they are going to vote what their constituents want.

[Bucco]

We know, for the most part, they vote for what works for them...That said, this might be the first time in a very long time they are going to vote what their constituents want.


We shall see. There is a lot of arm twisting going on right now and it will continue.

[shcisamax]

As the American people are mounting protests against going in to Syria, Kerry is in Europe trying to drum up support.

[gomoho]

Tuned right into public opinion as usual. So refreshing.

[graciegirl]

Another reason is their August recess isn't over until September 9, and Speaker Boehner elected not to call them back for a special session. When the House of Representatives returns to work on Monday they will work a grand total of nine days in September, then go on another recess.

janmcn,

Please post the telephone numbers of our representatives so we can call them or email them and tell them our feelings on an upcoming war.

You are always so helpful with information like this.

[Taltarzac725]

Find Your Representative · House.gov (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/)

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Good luck with this if people do decide to contact your Senator or Representative in the US Congress.

I am still not sure where I stand on Syria but am very glad that they are doing a lot of research and talking about this before starting another war.

Some sites you may want to look at before writing these people:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/spotlight/syria/
http://www.reuters.com/places/syria
http://www.theguardian.com/world/syria
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23990788
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/05/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html

[nitehawk]

Find Your Representative · House.gov (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/)

U.S. Senate: Senators Home (http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm)

Good luck with this if people do decide to contact your Senator or Representative in the US Congress.

I am still not sure where I stand on Syria but am very glad that they are doing a lot of research and talking about this before starting another war.

Some sites you may want to look at before writing these people:
Syria's war - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/spotlight/syria/)
Syria | Reuters.com (http://www.reuters.com/places/syria)
Syria | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/syria)
BBC News - Syria crisis: Russia and US no closer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23990788)
Iran: U.S. will 'definitely suffer' if it leads strike on Syria - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/05/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html)

At last someone who reads both sides of the story :BigApplause:

[billethkid]

Additional if not primary proof of political motivation?
Why Obama is so focused on upholding the international standard of using gas weapons to kill over 1000 men, women and children......but remains silent and tolerent on the 100,000 men, women and children killed with conventional weapons.
???????????????????????????????
American people overwhelmingly vote NO.
International community votes NO.
UN votes NO.

All the above happen after viewing both sides of the story.

Minority reports graciously noted.

btk

[janmcn]

janmcn,

Please post the telephone numbers of our representatives so we can call them or email them and tell them our feelings on an upcoming war.

You are always so helpful with information like this.


The number for the main switchboard at the US Capital is (202) 224-3121. They will connect you with any of the 535 member's offices.

[Bucco]

Additional if not primary proof of political motivation?
Why Obama is so focused on upholding the international standard of using gas weapons to kill over 1000 men, women and children......but remains silent and tolerent on the 100,000 men, women and children killed with conventional weapons.
???????????????????????????????
American people overwhelmingly vote NO.
International community votes NO.
UN votes NO.

All the above happen after viewing both sides of the story.

Minority reports graciously noted.

btk


....he has ignored these deaths to a degree for a few years

....he has ignored previous chemical attacks in Syria

....he promised help with rebels about 2/3 months ago and nothing has happened yet.

BUT those acts are typical of our current administration, and I do not think are part of any political motivation.

Having said that, I am suspicious of the sudden turn around in going to congress, which admittedly shocked everyone including the Secy of State and other advisors. That turn around and his talking as if that never happened does make me very cautious.

Say what you want, our president is an awesome politician. Problem is we need a US statesman right now and not a politician. Politically, he has put himself in a position of win-win. No matter how the vote, he blames congress...shrewd move.

I just wish he would become a statesman, and with all the arm twisting going on, lets just say I get edgy.

[PennBF]

How many or who that are in favor of war have witnessed a 19 year old screaming for his mother after being hit and is dying, how many have seen
the 19 year old returning from battle with a limb blown off and facing a lifetime of pain, who have seen the dead body of a 19 year old being placed in a casket to be returned to the US, who have visited and witnessed all of the wounded in Walter Reed hospital in DC, who have thought of the many wounded and killed and are being prepared to go back into battle to protect what may be a crazy bunch of rebels who are dedicated to killing Americans, or to throw a feather at the Syria leaders and then return home after many being wounded or killed. There is total proof that at least 75,000 boots will have to be on the ground to destroy any "gas locations". Dose anyone really believe that (a) it will only be that many and (2) no American will be killed. Maybe we are as crazy as the Syrians or rebels. There use to be a statement that 1 death is tragic and more than 1 are statistics. How sad it is when we lose the value of life. Some in our government have not served in the services and therefore have a "statistics" view of war as opposed to the real meaning. Lets all pray for our leaders to do the right thing by our citizens. :(

[gomoho]

Not sure it is bashing as much as discussion. We are all so concerned about this situation it is a relief and comforting to me to be able to discuss on an open forum this situation with other Villagers. Please don't complain and get this shut down for the rest of us who are more interested in information than bashing.

[Bucco]

I HONESTLY can see how you could feel that way...I really do. IF you looked at this as just another political exercise.

Difference, to me anyway, is we are talking about the country's foreign policy, and not an election. We are talking about a foreign policy and its author.

I did not start out bashing anyone on this thread and basically said I would back the President. But as everyone should be doing instead of listening to the political hacks I did some investigation, and would be glad to share links showing how the author of our policy is making stuff up about red lines, etc.

If our foreign policy is structured to ignore the killing of an american ambassador, try to camaflouge it when it happened, ignore the killing of men women and children for a number of years, ignore previous chemical weapons until now, and then stand up and be self righteous, I, as an american am embarassed.

And if you want this closed, then so much for any discussion of issues important to this country.....taking military action in the mideast is a bit more important than some of the things allowed for discussion.

What is more distressing is the taking of POLITICAL stances when discussing this. This is not about Dem versus Rep....not about the WH versus congress...not about Liberal versus conservative.....as a few keep trying to make it.

[nitehawk]

Obama Win-Win-Win --great move just keep saying he want to attack - really does not -- but force congress to make a decision -- no monday morning quarterbacks --- Post there vote and let everyone know how they voted -- i really dont think there will be a yes or no vote --- they will find a way out of a yes or no vote -- a very large percentage of them have no answer how they will vote --- what are they waiting for ????? keep up the good work "Obama" - really hope congress is forced to vote yes or no

[DaleMN]

We didn't start the fire.........:doh: