USA threat of action was the determining factor???!!

[billethkid]

I do not think so. There was no hope of the approval being given by the congress and the American people overwhelmingly against it (if that matters).

The suggestion that delaying the vote keeps the threat viable is really humorous. A really confident and effective ploy would have been to continue to press for approval....get the approval....show resolve to make good on the threat....then leave that un-used big stick speak for itself.

However since none of the above was remotely possible the next best fake was again deployed.

I fear that the very public display of military tactics no matter if whether or not or scope or when did nothing except announce to those who would be our advosaries that the USA's internal politics and populist approach are our own worst enemies.
Our embarassing stage plays for the past two weeks allowed any enemy to get ready or hide WMDs or whatever they wanted to do.....all the while laughing at democracy at it's worst playing on the world stage

Since when did military actions become public discourse???

Amateurs!!!

btk

[rp001]

I do not think so. There was no hope of the approval being given by the congress and the American people overwhelmingly against it (if that matters).

The suggestion that delaying the vote keeps the threat viable is really humorous. A really confident and effective ploy would have been to continue to press for approval....get the approval....show resolve to make good on the threat....then leave that un-used big stick speak for itself.

However since none of the above was remotely possible the next best fake was again deployed.

I fear that the very public display of military tactics no matter if whether or not or scope or when did nothing except announce to those who would be our advosaries that the USA's internal politics and populist approach are our own worst enemies.
Our embarassing stage plays for the past two weeks allowed any enemy to get ready or hide WMDs or whatever they wanted to do.....all the while laughing at democracy at it's worst playing on the world stage

Since when did military actions become public discourse???

Amateurs!!!

btk

Let's not forget that ALL military actions Should be governed by CIVILIANS, THUS AMATEURS. That's what keeps us a democracy and not a military dictatorship. Even though we have lost our democracy to the greedy bastards on wall street and corporate people like the Koch Brothers.

[Bucco]

I sincerely hope we are not simply being played....I pray no...BUT, this is from today's news meaning in the context of what has just transpired.



"AFP - Russian President Vladimir Putin will offer to supply Iran S-300 air defence missile systems as well as build a second reactor at the Bushehr nuclear plant, the Kommersant business daily reported Wednesday.

Putin will renew an old offer to supply Iran with five of the sophisticated ground-to-air missile systems at a meeting with Iranian President Hassan Rowhani on Friday, Kommersant said, quoting a souce close to the Kremlin."

Russia 'to renew offer to supply S-300s to Iran' - FRANCE 24 (http://www.france24.com/en/20130911-russia-renew-offer-supply-300s-iran)

"IRAN THREATENS WIDESPREAD RETALIATION AGAINST U.S. AND ALLIES"


Onswipe (http://o.dailycaller.com/thedailycaller/#!/entry/iran-threatens-widespread-retaliation-against-us-and-allies,522fed25da27f5d9d01da1c3/1)

I would love to have warm and fuzziness about the whole thing, but I do not. I am a bit encouraged by statements that there have been discussions as I thought we were pretty much ignoring the ME....I still have concerns about the resolve shown.

Putin today is speaking out against us with a strong degree of confidence.

I wish it were otherwise, but the ME needs attention. It is overdue.

[billethkid]

Let's not forget that ALL military actions Should be governed by CIVILIANS, THUS AMATEURS. That's what keeps us a democracy and not a military dictatorship. Even though we have lost our democracy to the greedy bastards on wall street and corporate people like the Koch Brothers.

Yes but we civilians are SUPPOSED to be REPRESENTED by our elected officials....that is what is not happening.....unless there is a threat of not being re-elected.

We have become an in front of the camera partisan puff up chest pounding, no action, self centered politicians. Where the good of the people and the nation are NOT their top priorities.

JFK did not sit around in front of a camera and a microphone for weeks before debating and score keeping around the world before launching the Bay of Pigs offensive.

The mascinations of our lawmakers the past 30 days are an embarassment in International venues.

Self centered world player Amateurs.

btk

[buggyone]

Do not forget that JFK brought the world very, very close to nuclear war. Do you think that was endorsed by the majority of Americans?

Do not forget the Bay of Pigs invasion was a massive failure, too.

[DDoug]

Why should we get involved in some one else's civil war. The middle east has been fighting for centuries you can't win nothing there.

[janmcn]

Why should we get involved in some one else's civil war. The middle east has been fighting for centuries you can't win nothing there.


"We will not send our sons and daughters to fight another country's civil war" said the Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, yesterday while testifying before the House Foreign Relations Committee.

[DaleMN]

Or anything even. :doh:

[quirky3]

...

[ilovetv]

"We will not send our sons and daughters to fight another country's civil war" said the Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel, yesterday while testifying before the House Foreign Relations Committee.

And speaking of that civil war, how the heck does anybody think Assad is going to cooperate with packing up and hauling out his chemical weapons when Damascus and area were bombed just yesterday???? Who would drag out the equipment and stores of chemical weaponry in and through this mess?

"As world leaders discussed a Russian proposal to confiscate Syria's chemical weapons and avert U.S. and French action, some of the heaviest fighting was in Barzeh, just north of central Damascus, where residents and opposition activists said air strikes and tank fire supported thrusts by pro-Assad militia.

The Syrian state news agency said troops "inflicted casualties on terrorists" in Barzeh and neighboring Qaboun.

"Even if the Russian initiative fails, the regime has at least bought itself time," opposition activist Salah Mohammad said. "It seems to be calculating that no strike is coming soon."

Mohammad said jets had staged three air raids on Barzeh on Tuesday while tanks on the heights of Qasioun mountain and in the government-held city center shelled the area in support of attacks by shabbiha militiamen pushing in to Barzeh from Ish al-Warwar, a district dominated by Assad's minority Alawite sect.

"The fighting is heavy on that front," Mohammed said. "The streets are narrow and tanks cannot be deployed."

A woman living in Damascus said she could see shells hitting Barzeh, apparently fired from Qasioun. Speaking anonymously for fear of reprisals, she said: "Since chemical weapons are a red line, it seems the world has decided it is OK for Assad to destroy Damascus with conventional weapons.".....

Assad air force back in action in Damascus, hitting rebels | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/10/us-syria-crisis-damascus-idUSBRE9890YY20130910)

[Bucco]

I am confused.

Folks on here are speaking of sending "our sons and daughters to war".

Where did that come from ? I missed something as I never heard that discussed and in fact dismissed immediately !

That seems to me to be a futile conversation to have based on what I have heard from day 1.

If I missed a turn of events, please post the source that discussed our sending our folks to war. Closest I heard was a fear of the reprisal, which is valid.

To play on emotions with that kind of talk just seems fruitless to me. If we were ever to get involved in this warfare, which I was all for over a year ago, that time has passed. I wanted to back the president but reading quite a bit on the makeup of those we would help makes it a no-brainier to me..we cannot get involved now at this late date.

[Bucco]

And speaking of that civil war, how the heck does anybody think Assad is going to cooperate with packing up and hauling out his chemical weapons when Damascus and area were bombed just yesterday???? Who would drag out the equipment and stores of chemical weaponry in and through this mess?

"As world leaders discussed a Russian proposal to confiscate Syria's chemical weapons and avert U.S. and French action, some of the heaviest fighting was in Barzeh, just north of central Damascus, where residents and opposition activists said air strikes and tank fire supported thrusts by pro-Assad militia.

The Syrian state news agency said troops "inflicted casualties on terrorists" in Barzeh and neighboring Qaboun.

"Even if the Russian initiative fails, the regime has at least bought itself time," opposition activist Salah Mohammad said. "It seems to be calculating that no strike is coming soon."

Mohammad said jets had staged three air raids on Barzeh on Tuesday while tanks on the heights of Qasioun mountain and in the government-held city center shelled the area in support of attacks by shabbiha militiamen pushing in to Barzeh from Ish al-Warwar, a district dominated by Assad's minority Alawite sect.

"The fighting is heavy on that front," Mohammed said. "The streets are narrow and tanks cannot be deployed."

A woman living in Damascus said she could see shells hitting Barzeh, apparently fired from Qasioun. Speaking anonymously for fear of reprisals, she said: "Since chemical weapons are a red line, it seems the world has decided it is OK for Assad to destroy Damascus with conventional weapons.".....

Assad air force back in action in Damascus, hitting rebels | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/10/us-syria-crisis-damascus-idUSBRE9890YY20130910)


I think we will be negotiating with an administration in a Syria that we want out. We are being pushed to recognize Assad because that is whom we must trust to show and destroy, all while the guy we will be meeting with continues to kill.

add to the above that the third person at the table is the guy who has been supplying the arms to allow Assad to kill and continues today and will be arming him as we talk.

[Golfingnut]

Why should we get involved in some one else's civil war. The middle east has been fighting for centuries you can't win nothing there.

I think we should wait until Assad kills at least as many children as we did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima before we call him evil.

[Bucco]

I think we should wait until Assad kills at least as many children as we did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima before we call him evil.

He may have already surpassed that number...only not sure about the term CHILDREN...I know he has killed more folks than lost their lives in Japan.

[Golfingnut]

In case anyone is not familiar with the loss of life in Nagasaki and Hiroshima read this link.

The Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki — History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts (http://www.history.com/topics/bombing-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki)

[Bucco]

Here is another twist and maybe an pause....not sure how much, but just for context....

"The Syria researcher whose Wall Street Journal op-piece was cited by Secretary of State John Kerry and Sen. John McCain during congressional hearings about the use of force has been fired from the Institute for the Study of War for lying about having a Ph.D., the group announced on Wednesday.

“The Institute for the Study of War has learned and confirmed that, contrary to her representations, Ms. Elizabeth O’Bagy does not in fact have a Ph.D. degree from Georgetown University,” the institute said in a statement. “ISW has accordingly terminated Ms. O’Bagy’s employment, effective immediately.”

Read more: WSJ op-ed writer Elizabeth O (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/wall-street-journal-elizabeth-obagy-fired-96637.html#ixzz2ebfPWUQq)


O’Bagy’s Aug. 30 op-ed piece for the Journal, “On the Front Lines of Syria’s Civil War,” was cited by both Kerry and McCain last week. McCain read from the piece last Tuesday to Kerry, calling it “an important op-ed by Dr. Elizabeth O’Bagy.” The next day, Kerry also brought up the piece before a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing and described it as a “very interesting article” and recommended that members read it.

But the piece had also come under fire for misrepresenting her affiliations. Originally the op-ed only listed O’Bagy, 26, as only “a senior analyst” at the ISW, later adding a clarification that disclosed her connection to a Syrian rebel advocacy group."

Dont know at all how much this influences anything but seeing her ties to the rebels and hearing the impact she had on Kerry and McCain gave me pause.

I am big on truth and context thus has more importance to me perhaps.

[Monkei]

I do not think so. There was no hope of the approval being given by the congress and the American people overwhelmingly against it (if that matters).

The suggestion that delaying the vote keeps the threat viable is really humorous. A really confident and effective ploy would have been to continue to press for approval....get the approval....show resolve to make good on the threat....then leave that un-used big stick speak for itself.

However since none of the above was remotely possible the next best fake was again deployed.

I fear that the very public display of military tactics no matter if whether or not or scope or when did nothing except announce to those who would be our advosaries that the USA's internal politics and populist approach are our own worst enemies.
Our embarassing stage plays for the past two weeks allowed any enemy to get ready or hide WMDs or whatever they wanted to do.....all the while laughing at democracy at it's worst playing on the world stage

Since when did military actions become public discourse???

Amateurs!!!

btk

I think the president would have bombed if there was no action from Syria regardless of this do absolutely nothing congress. So much so the Russia was convinced of such and pushed a deal. This president is a great leader fr the US on foreign issues.

[Monkei]

He may have already surpassed that number...only not sure about the term CHILDREN...I know he has killed more folks than lost their lives in Japan.

I agree. Also there is something different in killing an enemy if yours who has sworn and taken oaths to fight on until death than there is gassing your own people. The US bombing in Japan can also be argued to have saved life's in the long run.

[donb9006]

I sincerely hope we are not simply being played....I pray no...

Yes...you are being played...by ALL sides.

I am confused.

Folks on here are speaking of sending "our sons and daughters to war".

Where did that come from ? I missed something as I never heard that discussed and in fact dismissed immediately !



Because that's the way it ALWAYS ends...with boots on the ground. Always has.


I think we should wait until Assad kills at least as many children as we did in Nagasaki and Hiroshima before we call him evil.

Yup, we're always the good guys...even though we provoked Japan by cutting them off from getting oil during the year before Pearl Harbor. We provoked them, baited them, as we always do. Not "we" as in you and I, "we" as in our "leaders".

I agree. Also there is something different in killing an enemy if yours who has sworn and taken oaths to fight on until death than there is gassing your own people. The US bombing in Japan can also be argued to have saved life's in the long run.

Again, an enemy WE created because of our treatment of them. We create our own enemies. If China invaded tomorrow you'd swear to fight until your death. We invade...we invade a lot. Japan was losing, they were on the way out. We had cut off their oil AGAIN. We didn't need to bomb Hiroshima or Nagasaki, we wanted to show off our "big stick", not wanting to use the more vulgar term...

We're fed propaganda from the day we're born, just as our "enemies" are.

It's why we're always confused, because reality doesn't match what we're told/taught.

[gomoho]

I think the president would have bombed if there was no action from Syria regardless of this do absolutely nothing congress. So much so the Russia was convinced of such and pushed a deal. This president is a great leader fr the US on foreign issues.

This comment leads me to believe you would have our leader act as a dictator since the majority of this democratic society was against the bombing of Syria and involving our country.