NRA And background checks

[Golfingnut]

Will the NRA back off their block on background checks? They pose as protecting the 2nd amendment. That is a lie. What they do is make it easy for criminals and the mentally ill to buy guns. 12 more citizens dead thanks to the NRA and their supporters.

[ilovetv]

Will the NRA back off their block on background checks? They pose as protecting the 2nd amendment. That is a lie. What they do is make it easy for criminals and the mentally ill to buy guns. 12 more citizens dead thanks to the NRA and their supporters.

The NRA is not responsible for the killer in DC having legitimate military security clearance and ID, in spite of his long history of mental illness and criminal record and military discipline record (expunged).

"Alexis entered the Navy Yard with a valid pass, obtained through his work as a contractor, authorities said Tuesday afternoon. He was carrying a shotgun, purchased legally in Virginia. Alexis may also have obtained a handgun during the rampage, authorities said.

Valerie Parlave, head of the FBI’s Washington field office, said Alexis was not carrying an AR-15 assault rifle when he arrived, as had been previously reported by some news media."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/navy-yard-area-reopens-as-investigators-search-for-clues-to-massacre/2013/09/17/3839e98e-1f80-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html?wpmk=MK0000203

Please don't blame the massacre on the NRA and not on the perpetrator and the people who gave him security clearance and ID. A no-gun zone like the navy yard probably had lots of trained active military and veterans who are highly qualified to have a weapon on them, but they did not. They were weaponless while trained and qualified to have a weapon to defend themselves. I'd imagine they were wishing they had a weapon to stop the bloodshed.

No-gun zones are easy pickin's for criminals with no regard for gun laws.

[Golfingnut]

The NRA is not responsible for the killer in DC having legitimate military security clearance and ID, in spite of his long history of mental illness and criminal record and military discipline record (expunged).

"Alexis entered the Navy Yard with a valid pass, obtained through his work as a contractor, authorities said Tuesday afternoon. He was carrying a shotgun, purchased legally in Virginia. Alexis may also have obtained a handgun during the rampage, authorities said.

Valerie Parlave, head of the FBI’s Washington field office, said Alexis was not carrying an AR-15 assault rifle when he arrived, as had been previously reported by some news media."

Navy Yard edges back to normal, as families mourn and investigators search for evidence - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/navy-yard-area-reopens-as-investigators-search-for-clues-to-massacre/2013/09/17/3839e98e-1f80-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html?wpmk=MK0000203)

Please don't blame the massacre on the NRA and not on the perpetrator and the people who gave him security clearance and ID. A no-gun zone like the navy yard probably had lots of trained active military and veterans who are highly qualified to have a weapon on them, but they did not. They were weaponless while trained and qualified to have a weapon to defend themselves. I'd imagine they were wishing they had a weapon to stop the bloodshed.

No-gun zones are easy pickin's for criminals with no regard for gun laws.
Maybe, but the NRA is responsible for this guy being able to buy guns that he used to kill the people. They are at the very least in favor of guns for everyone regardless of mental status. They claim not, but yet they use their membership to get any sensible legislation voted down. If anyone supports the NRA, they are accessories to these latest murders for blocking legislation that would have stopped this man from buying a gun.
a gun.

[billethkid]

Will the NRA back off their block on background checks? They pose as protecting the 2nd amendment. That is a lie. What they do is make it easy for criminals and the mentally ill to buy guns. 12 more citizens dead thanks to the NRA and their supporters.

What is stated may be an opinion to which one is most certainly entitled. However be aware the highlighted statements are a prejudice (also an entitlement) and totally incorrect and inflammatory (which one may be entitled to but certainly not without suitable response). The last sentence requires an apology. What an absoluetly terrible and irresponsible accusation.

btk

[Carl in Tampa]

The FBI has reported on TV that the firearm used at the Navy Yard was a shotgun LEGALLY PURCHASED by Aaron Alexis in Virginia. That means that Alexis WAS SUBJECT TO A BACKGROUND CHECK.

It is entirely predictable that there will be two kinds of people who immediately jump up and blame the NRA after firearms are used in crimes:

1. The anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment crowd who are lying about the circumstances and know it, and....

2. The abysmally ignorant who don't know the facts and simply buy in to the lies of the #1 crowd.

There is no law or group of laws that will protect us from evil men or mad men intent upon committing evil acts.

:police:

[ilovetv]

What is stated may be an opinion to which one is most certainly entitled. However be aware the highlighted statements are a prejudice (also an entitlement) and totally incorrect and inflammatory (which one may be entitled to but certainly not without suitable response). The last sentence requires an apology. What an absoluetly terrible and irresponsible accusation.

btk

The hateful accusation against millions of law abiding people who have no connection to this murderer is twisted and cruel on its own, but then it is compounded by giving a pass to this maniacal killer!!!!

Making excuses for criminals and removing accountability from those who screen, hire, continue to employ and sign paychecks for a guy like this and the Ft. Hood killer is what's ruining our once-disciplined society. As the rest of the world laughs.......

[kittygilchrist]

I'm cutting in line without reading previous posts to say this:
when I see a man under 35 that went off on a rampage the first thing I think is paranoid schizophrenia. It is as much a tragedy for that person and his family as it is for every other person involved. Not guilty by reason of insanity, but still dead.
What's tricky about enacting laws is the disorder has its onset during young manhood. or in the case of women, grossly stereotyping, they drown their babies. So who knew they were sick? Somebody close to them knew...
This nation dismantled its mental health treatment system way long ago....nevermind gun control, how about treatment?
so carry on with whatever you guys were talking about. sorry to cut in. I'm done.

[Monkei]

Will the NRA back off their block on background checks? They pose as protecting the 2nd amendment. That is a lie. What they do is make it easy for criminals and the mentally ill to buy guns. 12 more citizens dead thanks to the NRA and their supporters.

Forget all these killings ... I think that most gun owners who are members of te NRA would welcome background checks. But it's not the rank and file members in the NRA its the tie in to keep gun manufacturers fat happy and rich.

[Golfingnut]

Forget all these killings ... I think that most gun owners who are members of te NRA would welcome background checks. But it's not the rank and file members in the NRA its the tie in to keep gun manufacturers fat happy and rich.

That is true, but the NRA STILL uses their money and membership to block legislation that WOULD at least slow down these senseless killings. I am a gun owner and support the right to bear arms, but not like the NRA as their greed and influence over their membership keep gun laws in this country primitive. Please understand their mission and stop supporting them now...

[Golfingnut]

What is stated may be an opinion to which one is most certainly entitled. However be aware the highlighted statements are a prejudice (also an entitlement) and totally incorrect and inflammatory (which one may be entitled to but certainly not without suitable response). The last sentence requires an apology. What an absoluetly terrible and irresponsible accusation.

btk

Look into your heart and see the NRA for the greedy bad organization they are. I will never apologize for condemning a killer or the supporters of these useless killers. The NRA and their supporters are at the very least indirectly responsible for thousands of innocent people being killed with high powered weapons. This madness must stop and putting the NRA out of business would be a wonderful start.

[gomoho]

If a bad guy wants to kill someone with a gun he's gonna get a gun even if the law says only God Almighty can supply them. Kitty is right - the old cliché - guns don't kill people, people do. The lack of mental health care in this country is pathetic and until we fix this a million gun laws won't stop these massacres.

[Golfingnut]

If a bad guy wants to kill someone with a gun he's gonna get a gun even if the law says only God Almighty can supply them. Kitty is right - the old cliché - guns don't kill people, people do. The lack of mental health care in this country is pathetic and until we fix this a million gun laws won't stop these massacres.

Laws would slow it down and the NRA blocks every attempt to make guns harder to get for the mentally ill.

Again, I am a gun owner and support that, but, what the NRA does in support of criminals is EVIL.

[Golfingnut]

The FBI has reported on TV that the firearm used at the Navy Yard was a shotgun LEGALLY PURCHASED by Aaron Alexis in Virginia. That means that Alexis WAS SUBJECT TO A BACKGROUND CHECK.

It is entirely predictable that there will be two kinds of people who immediately jump up and blame the NRA after firearms are used in crimes:

1. The anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment crowd who are lying about the circumstances and know it, and....

2. The abysmally ignorant who don't know the facts and simply buy in to the lies of the #1 crowd.

There is no law or group of laws that will protect us from evil men or mad men intent upon committing evil acts.

:police:

I am very pro gun, am a gun owner and did 22 years in the military fighting for the second amendment as well as the rest of the constitution. I being a well informed person who disagrees with the anti gun/2nd amendment crowd know that evil will never be eliminated, but the NRA is an EVIL that we can do something about. The NRA uses the 2nd amendment as a means to more money and membership. No one is trying to take our guns away, but many buy into that fantasy and send their dollars to the laughing NRA.

[Carl in Tampa]

Laws would slow it down and the NRA blocks every attempt to make guns harder to get for the mentally ill.

Again, I am a gun owner and support that, but, what the NRA does in support of criminals is EVIL.

I'm sure now that you are impervious to FACTS, but I'll give it one more try.

On March 18, 2013, Chris Cox, Executive Director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, had an editorial published in The Hill congressional newspaper in which he said, " Shouldn't Congress and the White House be working to get mentally ill people and felons into the database so we can actually have a chance at preventing them from purchasing firearms?"

The entire editorial is available at NRA | A Universally Bad Idea (http://home.nra.org/events/document/a-universally-bad-idea)

The NRA has a history of calling for congress to get the mentally ill and felons INTO the background check database.

:thumbup:

[billethkid]

it does not matter what organization does or does not do....it does not matter what legislation is suggested/passed/enforced......it does not matter what "some" think about what will have an effect on killing with guns.

Those who want and need a gun will get one REGARDLESS!

How about a lesson in cruel reality? Let's talk about one of the most secure locations on the planet; a place where one is subjected to multiple levels of security; a place designed to keep out those who should not be there; a place where people who work there feel safe where they work;

US NAval Headquarters in Washington DC!!!!!!! How effective was all that regimen to controlling a man who should not have even been allowed to have a gun....an individual with a known history of gun violence...known mental problems.....known issues with the Navy.....all the knowns and the security regimens and yet he pulled off his mission.

To hear some people's opinions about what they think will have an impact on or slowing down gun violence begs a reality check.

btk

[gomoho]

Do you really believe if a mentally ill person wants a gun to go on a rampage and can't get one legally he won't go in the street and buy one??? I can almost guarantee you if I wanted to buy any type of weapon my kids could find it in less than a day. And I say my kids 'cause if they saw me coming to buy it they would probably be very suspicious.
More laws won't fix the problem and we're wasting time and energy fighting that battle.

[Golfingnut]

I am very pro gun, am a gun owner and did 22 years in the military fighting for the second amendment as well as the rest of the constitution. I being a well informed person who disagrees with the anti gun/2nd amendment crowd know that evil will never be eliminated, but the NRA is an EVIL that we can do something about. The NRA uses the 2nd amendment as a means to more money and membership. No one is trying to take our guns away, but many buy into that fantasy and send their dollars to the laughing NRA.

I'm sure now that you are impervious to FACTS, but I'll give it one more try.

On March 18, 2013, Chris Cox, Executive Director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, had an editorial published in The Hill congressional newspaper in which he said, " Shouldn't Congress and the White House be working to get mentally ill people and felons into the database so we can actually have a chance at preventing them from purchasing firearms?"

The entire editorial is available at NRA | A Universally Bad Idea (http://home.nra.org/events/document/a-universally-bad-idea)

The NRA has a history of calling for congress to get the mentally ill and felons INTO the background check database.

:thumbup:

Sorry. Absolutely not true. The NRA put provisions into the above that in fact caused it to be voted down. I am surprised that you did not know that. This is documented clearly about the trickery and lies from the NRA and even trying to turn it around in an attempt to bring back disalusioned previous members. If you like, I could help you with your research into the truth on this issue.
Send me a PM if you need more help, I will be out of the net for a while, but will get back with you as soon as possible.

[billethkid]

:read::popcorn:

[Carl in Tampa]

Sorry. Absolutely not true. The NRA put provisions into the above that in fact caused it to be voted down. I am surprised that you did not know that. This is documented clearly about the trickery and lies from the NRA and even trying to turn it around in an attempt to bring back disalusioned previous members. If you like, I could help you with your research into the truth on this issue.
Send me a PM if you need more help, I will be out of the net for a while, but will get back with you as soon as possible.

No, don't help me with my research... and let's not handle it in private. If you have FACTS, with legitimate sources that everyone can read on line then put them right out here for everyone to read.

:police:

[RLL39]

If we believe that the future is in some way a representation of the past, then we are doomed to repeat our failures. Hitler, Pol Pot and others disarmed their citizens and the result is history. 50 million dead. At the risk of being overly dramatic, the NRA is the only fire wall that can steadfastly protect our Second Amendment. Blaming the NRA and legislating new gun control laws, have no impact on the atrocities of Colorado, Newtown and the Navy Yard. Mental Health, inner city crime and the break down of the American family structure has its finger prints all over these events.

[CFrance]

I'm cutting in line without reading previous posts to say this:
when I see a man under 35 that went off on a rampage the first thing I think is paranoid schizophrenia. It is as much a tragedy for that person and his family as it is for every other person involved. Not guilty by reason of insanity, but still dead.
What's tricky about enacting laws is the disorder has its onset during young manhood. or in the case of women, grossly stereotyping, they drown their babies. So who knew they were sick? Somebody close to them knew...
This nation dismantled its mental health treatment system way long ago....nevermind gun control, how about treatment?
so carry on with whatever you guys were talking about. sorry to cut in. I'm done.

Forget all these killings ... I think that most gun owners who are members of te NRA would welcome background checks. But it's not the rank and file members in the NRA its the tie in to keep gun manufacturers fat happy and rich.

Okay, You/Kitty and You/Monkei have provided some very good information, some of which I haven't thought about, although I have long noted the negative fallout from dismantling the mental health system.

I guess one should not paint the NRA with one broad brush.

[MikeV]

Laws would slow it down and the NRA blocks every attempt to make guns harder to get for the mentally ill.

Again, I am a gun owner and support that, but, what the NRA does in support of criminals is EVIL.

Without the NRA you would not own a gun and would therefore be at the mercy of criminals and the government. Why not move to England or Australia?

[buggyone]

Even though I classify myself as a liberal person, I am not against private ownership of guns. I see nothing wrong with someone having a rifle or shotgun for hunting or sport shooting nor anything wrong with having a handgun for protection in your home. It is downright ridiculous to carry a handgun while out in The Villages but if you have a permit and do it properly, no problem. Do it improperly or display it improperly and be prepared to pay consequences.

I see absolutely no reason to have private ownership of weapons like "streetsweeper shotguns" with 100 round drum magazines, rifles that can hold 100 rounds in a drum magazine and easily be turned into full automatic, or 30 round pistols.

Constitution rights, in my belief, for guns mean you can own a gun but there are limits on what you as a private citizen can own. Gun ownership to sensible weapons - not weapons of mass destruction.

[buggyone]

Without the NRA you would not own a gun and would therefore be at the mercy of criminals and the government. Why not move to England or Australia?

Or the ones who want no control can move to Somalia, Chad, or Afghanistan.