Did you attend Fruitland Park Meeting?

[OldManTime]

How do you all think it went?

[Hopeful2]

Does anyone have any info regarding what transpired at the meeting?
Thanks!

[mulligan]

Good writeup in today's paper.

[Lbmb24101]

I suspended the paper since wecare oyt of the house for now

Could someone please post a link to the article??

Thanks in advance

[Bogie Shooter]

I suspended the paper since wecare oyt of the house for now

Could someone please post a link to the article??

Thanks in advance

http://www.*******************
Its the online news site

[Peachie]

http://www.*******************

Bogie, would you please provide a synopsis of the article since the link was removed?

[Bogie Shooter]

Bogie, would you please provide a synopsis of the article since the link was removed?

Wonder why?

[angiefox10]

http://www.*******************/villages-hopes-push-button-start-fruitland-park-project-3-weeks/

"About 200 local residents filled the 99-year old Casino community center beyond capacity Thursday night to hear developers, city staff and city commissioners discuss plans to develop 1,972 new homes in the Villages of Fruitland Park, located on the Pine Ridge Dairy property along the Sumter County line at the city’s western edge.
If approved, the development will accommodate almost 4,000 new residents, nearly doubling the city’s population in the span of two years and ranking Fruitland Park as the nation’s fastest-growing city.
Fruitland Park mayor Chris Bell called the meeting to explain the development and air resident concerns. The Villages sent two of its biggest guns—Dr. Gary Lester, Vice President for Community Relations, and Gary Moyer, Vice President of Development—to help sell the project.
None of the speakers had to work hard, and the standing room only crowd applauded each presentation.
City planner Greg Beliveau, a principal at LPG Urban & Regional Planning in Mount Dora, detailed a Project Impact Analysis study his company completed two weeks ago.
The 980-acre Pine Ridge Dairy site was annexed into the city in 2006 with zoning restrictions that allowed development of 3,233 residential units on 705 acres of the site at a gross rate of 3.3 units per acre.
Changes in the county’s comprehensive growth management plan to allow such density are expected gain approval early next year, Beliveau told the group.
Current zoning restrictions on the entire Pine Ridge Dairy site limit commercial development to 173 acres and require that 72 acres be set aside for public uses such as a school, a well field and parks, and 34 acres for greenbelt.
The Villages currently plans to acquire 760 acres to build 1,972 new homes—or approximately 2.6 units per acre gross, along with three community centers, a golf course, and city administrative offices.
Beliveau’s study estimates that the Villages will pay more than $13 million in impact fees and inspection fees, building permits and the like, while the city will need to add and equip an estimated nine police officers at a cost of more than $1 million the first year and $750,000 per year annually. Improvements to the city’s water system will cost more than $3.5 million.
At project buildout—which the Villages estimates will take two years—the city will more than double its property tax revenues.
Dr. Lester, a longtime local resident who built North Lake Presbyterian Church into one of the fastest-growing Presbyterian churches in the U.S. before joining The Villages in 1999, urged the audience to trust their senses when judging the proposed project.
“A lot of developers come in from out of town with artists renderings and all kinds of promises,” Lester said. “This is a different situation. We all know each other here. My kids attended Fruitland Park Elementary School. We bump into each other in grocery stores. Villagers attend many of the churches here in Fruitland Park, and a lot of Fruitland Park children attend the Villages Charter School,” he said.
“You also know what we do,” Lester said. “We’re a known quantity. You know what our neighborhoods look like. You know how we plan things, how we maintain things, you know what our neighborhoods look like. So you know what you can expect from us,” he told the group.
Moyer, who has helped to develop more than 250 communities and is widely regarded as an expert on sustainable communities, told the group First Baptist Church approached the Villages five months ago to offer the Pine Ridge Dairy site for sale. Dr. Charles L. Roesel, who headed the First Baptist Church of Leesburg for more than 30 years, is president of Pine Ridge Dairy, Inc., which owns the site.
Moyer said city residents will have several more opportunities to air any concerns that may arise.
“If we decide to proceed with our acquisition, the city will have to amend its comp plan in public meetings, alter the zoning on the property in public meetings, and adopt a development order so that we can undertake a DRI review,” Moyer said.
“If everything goes smoothly, we should complete those processes by next summer,” Moyer said. After site-specific planning, design, engineering, and platting, The Villages of Fruitland Park could break ground—and start selling new homes—about a year from now.
But the wait—even at such an accelerated pace—will be worth it, Moyer explained.
“This project will not only pay for itself in ad valorem taxes but will generate surpluses that the city can use for the betterment of the Fruitland Park community,” Moyer said.
“There will also be additional commercial development near the project that will generate additional tax revenues as well as retail opportunities for residents,” Moyer added, “and you’ll see other developers who want to build more communities nearby.”
The Villages is expected to push the button to start the project—by closing on its acquisition of the site—in about three weeks."

[graciegirl]

In First section this morning;

[rubicon]

I have been to more of those town hall meetings than I care to remember and each and every time the developer uses the same lines as I read here.

Color me skeptical but there is an uneasiness floating in the air

[OldManTime]

I attended, and my thoughts are the same as "RUBICON" and think "ANGIEFOX10" must be connected with the Villages somehow. There were residents sitting all around me, and what i heard from them were snickers and boos when Mr Moyer, gave his speech at the residents. There were many standing, who came in late that were applauding when each of the Villages officials spoke, I doubt they were Fruitland Park residents.
Then a public meeting was 1 on 1 with individual commissioners, so not all attendees were able to hear there conversations, how strange.


My gut tells me the Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer of big bucks

[janmcn]

An interesting item in the Daily Commercial said that The Villages wants all the permits and approvals to be done by Sumter County, even though the entire project is in Lake County. Is there a precedent for this anywhere in the state of Florida, building in one county while another county gives the approvals?

IMO there is a reason why TV has not built one residence in Lake County since the late 1990's, and that is they don't have all the elected officials in their pocket. Hopefully, Lake County will say no to this request if this project ever gets off the ground.



http://www.dailycommercial.com/news/article_02781e56-bdfd-5bbf-9cd4-8efe9f18ce21.html

[graciegirl]

That sounds ugly. "in their pocket". I am so tired of this disdain toward the Morse family for no good reason.

[angiefox10]

I attended, and my thoughts are the same as "RUBICON" and think "ANGIEFOX10" must be connected with the Villages somehow. There were residents sitting all around me, and what i heard from them were snickers and boos when Mr Moyer, gave his speech at the residents. There were many standing, who came in late that were applauding when each of the Villages officials spoke, I doubt they were Fruitland Park residents.
Then a public meeting was 1 on 1 with individual commissioners, so not all attendees were able to hear there conversations, how strange.


My gut tells me the Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer of big bucks


You caught me....I'm Gary's daughter!

Ummmm If you look at my post you will notice I copied the article from the paper. I made a point of going back to edit it with quotes to indicate it was just that... a quote. I didn't give my thoughts one way or the other...

Now... leave me alone, or I will tell dad on you.

[gomoho]

I don't understand why the residents of Fruitland Park wouldn't want to reap the benefits this project would bring to their city. It is a small portion of land that will be developed that will have a huge financial impact for them.

[Pepperhead]

http://www.*******************/villages-hopes-push-button-start-fruitland-park-project-3-weeks/

"About 200 local residents filled the 99-year old Casino community center beyond capacity Thursday night to hear developers, city staff and city commissioners discuss plans to develop 1,972 new homes in the Villages of Fruitland Park, located on the Pine Ridge Dairy property along the Sumter County line at the city’s western edge.



The curse of being an engineer. I read the whole thing and find myself wondering how you fill something beyond capacity.

[graciegirl]

I don't understand why the residents of Fruitland Park wouldn't want to reap the benefits this project would bring to their city. It is a small portion of land that will be developed that will have a huge financial impact for them.


They are jealous of us and aggravated at some of our very uppity behavior and they are sick of us coming in to what was their space. Some of us are good ambassadors and some of us are not.

I can't blame them.

[janmcn]

That sounds ugly. "in their pocket". I am so tired of this disdain toward the Morse family for no good reason.


What other explanation is there for having a big project in one county, Lake County, but wanting another county, Sumter County, to do all the approvals and permiting? Has this ever been done before in the whole state of Florida?

[Bogie Shooter]

I attended, and my thoughts are the same as "RUBICON" and think "ANGIEFOX10" must be connected with the Villages somehow. There were residents sitting all around me, and what i heard from them were snickers and boos when Mr Moyer, gave his speech at the residents. There were many standing, who came in late that were applauding when each of the Villages officials spoke, I doubt they were Fruitland Park residents.
Then a public meeting was 1 on 1 with individual commissioners, so not all attendees were able to hear there conversations, how strange.


My gut tells me the Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer of big bucks

Glad to hear that some villagers made aXXes of themselves at the meeting.

[graciegirl]

What other explanation is there for having a big project in one county, Lake County, but wanting another county, Sumter County, to do all the approvals and permiting? Has this ever been done before in the whole state of Florida?

I don't know but it may be because their operation is based in Sumter county and We are the reason for most of Sumter county's commerce. I say if Lake county doesn't want The Villages than too bad.

[Bogie Shooter]

What other explanation is there for having a big project in one county, Lake County, but wanting another county, Sumter County, to do all the approvals and permiting? Has this ever been done before in the whole state of Florida?

What if it has?

[janmcn]

What if it has?


And what if it has not? Why would The Villages expect and receive this special treatment?

[Bogie Shooter]

And what if it has not? Why would The Villages expect and receive this special treatment?

Why do you think it is special treatment?

[Villages Kahuna]

1. Fruitland Park would be crazy not to negotiate with The Villages with the intention of having the development of 2,000 homes with 4,000 new residents added to their tax roles. It will take decades, if ever, for "normal" development to achieve these numbers. The incremental tax revenues would fix any funding uncertainties Fruitland Park has forever!

2. The Villages reps speaking at the meeting were absolutely correct in noting that this developer is a known quantity. How they build, maintain and manage their development is clearly evident by just driving from the historic section south to CR 44. There's a reason why more than 95% of residents vote in the annual survey that they would recommend The Villages to anyone. Does it make sense to anyone that developing the dairy property piecemeal with dozens of different builders, probably over decades, would be beneficial to Fruitland Park?

3. As far as having Sumter County handle all the permitting and inspections for the property located in Lake County, what would you demand were you the developer? There is simply no way that The Lake County building department and other staffs are adequately staffed to handle the requirements of a development that will move at the pace required by the Developer. Think about it--if you were the developer, how might you react if you wanted to build 19 homes a week (the actual a pace to sell out the new property in two years), then have the Lake County building department say, "...oh, we're sorry, we're only staffed to handle 5-6 new home construction permits a week." Having the properly staffed and scaled Sumter County building department handle permitting and inspections would be a deal-killer issue were I the Developer. All Lake County has to do is authorize Sumter to do the job for these 1,972 homes only. Easy fix, but a deal killer if it doesn't get done.

[njbchbum]

1. Fruitland Park would be crazy not to negotiate with The Villages with the intention of having the development of 2,000 homes with 4,000 new residents added to their tax roles. It will take decades, if ever, for "normal" development to achieve these numbers. The incremental tax revenues would fix any funding uncertainties Fruitland Park has forever!

2. The Villages reps speaking at the meeting were absolutely correct in noting that this developer is a known quantity. How they build, maintain and manage their development is clearly evident by just driving from the historic section south to CR 44. There's a reason why more than 95% of residents vote in the annual survey that they would recommend The Villages to anyone. Does it make sense to anyone that developing the dairy property piecemeal with dozens of different builders, probably over decades, would be beneficial to Fruitland Park?

3. As far as having Sumter County handle all the permitting and inspections for the property located in Lake County, what would you demand were you the developer? There is simply no way that The Lake County building department and other staffs are adequately staffed to handle the requirements of a development that will move at the pace required by the Developer. Think about it--if you were the developer, how might you react if you wanted to build 19 homes a week (the actual a pace to sell out the new property in two years), then have the Lake County building department say, "...oh, we're sorry, we're only staffed to handle 5-6 new home construction permits a week." Having the properly staffed and scaled Sumter County building department handle permitting and inspections would be a deal-killer issue were I the Developer. All Lake County has to do is authorize Sumter to do the job for these 1,972 homes only. Easy fix, but a deal killer if it doesn't get done.

bk - i agree with points 1 & 2 but hafta take exception to #3 since lake county is the county that needs the $$ received from all of those permits and inspections. and sumter county is likely not familiar with the lake county policies/procedures for permitting and inspecting [i don't know if there is a uniform way to do things between counties - but here in nj every town does something different].

perhaps the developer could convince sumter county to help train new staff for lake county if there is a uniform way of doing things among counties; or loan lake county several employees [an excellent way to get an inside look at what goes on in that office!]; or just process the work and give the fees to lake county!

[Villages Kahuna]

bk - i agree with points 1 & 2 but hafta take exception to #3 since lake county is the county that needs the $$ received from all of those permits and inspections. and sumter county is likely not familiar with the lake county policies/procedures for permitting and inspecting [i don't know if there is a uniform way to do things between counties - but here in nj every town does something different].

perhaps the developer could convince sumter county to help train new staff for lake county if there is a uniform way of doing things among counties; or loan lake county several employees [an excellent way to get an inside look at what goes on in that office!]; or just process the work and give the fees to Lake county!Typically, the fees charged by governmental building departments basically cover their costs of operation, They're not "profit makers".

With the exception of only one large city in the U.S., no other counties or municipalities create their own building codes. There are national codes that are widely accepted for governing residential building. In the USA the main codes are the International Commercial or Residential Code , including electrical, plumbing and mechanical codes. There are a few local or state-wide amendments to codes, such as some minor requirements for hurricane protection here in Florida. But those minor amendments are widely accepted and reflected in local building codes across the state. I think the differences you cite in New Jersey are differences in staffing and the way various sized municipalities [I]administer the building codes, not the codes themselves.

Due to ever increasing complexity and cost of developing building regulations, virtually all municipalities in the United States have chosen to adopt model codes instead. The City of Chicago remains the only municipality in America that continues to use a building code the city developed on its own as part of the Municipal Code of Chicago. My educated guess is that the Lake and Sumter county building codes read word-for-word like the national model residential building code.

So the key issue seems to be which building department is prepared to keep pace with the demands of a very large and fast-moving project? As has been noted here, if the Villages of Fruitland Park proceeds, Fruitland Park will be the fastest growing municipality in the U.S for about two years.

Look at it from the viewpoint of the Developer. They will be placing millions of dollars at risk in building this development. Their formula is pretty simple. Prior to actually starting construction, the roads and utilities are paid for from the proceeds of bond issuances. Then they build houses so fast that they don't even need construction financing. They build, sell and close so quickly that they can finance construction within the normal payment terms offered by their suppliers of the building materials they use. By the time the bill for foundations, lumber, electrical and the like is due, the house is sold and closed and the suppliers are paid from the proceeds of the new homeowner's mortgage loans.

Basically, the development can proceed without the Developer even borrowing money, so long as it proceeds at the planned pace needed to build, sell and close in their normal window of about 45 days. If anything interferes with this program, the whole development model falls apart...and could become very costly for the Developer.

Maybe the question that should be asked is, if you were the developer would you agree to proceed with this development under the aegis of the Lake County authorities, knowing that the number of building permits and inspections required will about three times the normal volume per year administered by the county building departments?

Not only isn't Lake County staffed to oversee such a project, but unless they build a temporary building department office right here in The Villages (like Sumter has done down near the Sumter County annex on CR 466), the developer and contractors would have to run all the way down to Tavares for permits and other construction-related documents. In case you're unfamiliar, that's 23 miles on US 441 during daylight hours, "in season" more than an hour each way in heavy traffic.

The way I see it, this project will only proceed if the two counties get their heads together and permit Sumter County to continue with the permitting, inspections and oversight of this expansion of The Villages. That would be pretty easy to accomplish. All that would be needed would be...
An inter-governmental agreement that Sumter County would administer the permitting and construction of The Villages of Fruitland Park development.
That Sumter County would perform such administration using the building codes used by Lake County, presumably the national model building codes.
That Sumter County would enter into a "hold harmless" agreement shifting any risk of litigation involving this specific development from Lake to Sumter County.

I know that if I were the developer, there is no way I would proceed otherwise. There would be way too much risk of inadequate governmental staffing and support, regardless of what they may promise prior to starting the development. I guess we've seen how good government promises in Washington are worth haven't we?

[bike42]

Villages Kahuna -- thank you for your thorough and thoughtful explanation.

[Big O]

I am new here and apparently do not know what is going on here. Can someone explain to me why this is a matter that current Village residents would care about?

[Bucco]

That sounds ugly. "in their pocket". I am so tired of this disdain toward the Morse family for no good reason.

There are some on here, for whatever reason, lose all sense of logic and reason if The Villages management or the developer's name is mentioned. This is truly a character flaw with these folks who cannot even discuss issues without the ...well, I would describe it as character assassination...just simply ignoring the facts.

TOTV is NOT the place to be for any unbiased discussion of The Villages. If you are on the outside reading, you cannot possibily have a positive picture of our town. Hope this does not get me deleted, but not political...just joining Gracie in saying it is getting very old, and while what I know of is not big numbers, it loses posters.

Village Kahuana, as always has put things in perspective and those who simply use this forum as a hatchet for the developer should really work on reading skills to learn about what they post before looking so foolish.

Sorry Grace but I share your frustrations.

Discussion on issues is great and all sides should express themselves, but the tone 100 % of the time from some becomes so tiresome

[DianeM]

[QUi OTE=Big O;749722]I am new here and apparently do not know what is going on here. Can someone explain to me why this is a matter that current Village residents would care about?[/QUOTE]

I don't understand what the big deal is either.

[bkcunningham1]

Hi VK. It is nice to see you. I wonder if you know how many employees there are in Lake County's Building Service Division and/or the entire Lake County Department of Growth and Management?

[Villages Kahuna]

I don't understand what the big deal is either.Really, unless you live real close to the "dairy property" or if you live in Fruitland Park and not The Villages, there is no big deal.

Other than probably having CR 466A widened all the way to US 441, which might not happen if the Fruitland Park part of The Villages isn't developed, it won't affect the rest of us at all.

[Villages Kahuna]

Hi VK. It is nice to see you. I wonder if you know how many employees there are in Lake County's Building Service Division and/or the entire Lake County Department of Growth and Management?From what I can tell, the entire Lake County Department of Growth Management has 29 employees. The department is responsible for building services, contractor licensing, development planning, zoning and something called "enterprise zone development".

Among the 29 employees there are:

One (1) Building Services Manager

Three (3) Permitting Technicians

Three (3) Plans Examiners

Two (2) Building Inspectors

It's kind of hard to get really current information. But in recent years, Lake County has issued residential building permits in the range of 300 to 600 per year. The Villages is building and selling 300-400 houses or villas a month, all in Sumter County.

I tried to compare Lake County to Sumter County's Department of Building Services. I couldn't get any information on staffing. But their process for plan review and permitting seemed very precise. In fact, their website says that building inspections can be requested and conducted twenty-four hours a day and that any inspection requested before midnight would be conducted the next day. It's kind of hard to imagine that the two Lake County inspectors could deal with inspecting 19 houses a week for all the various of stages of construction requiring inspection (structural, framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, final, certificate of occupancy, etc.).

While it's only anecdotal information, my neighbor is in the process of completing a really nice rental house on CR 468 in Fruitland Park. It took him almost two years to get the necessary permits to begin construction. At one point he became so frustrated with the slowness and inefficiency of the process that he almost put the property back up for sale. The house is almost done now, a dramatic improvement over the unoccupied, overgrown, windowless, unpainted structure that it replaced. But my neighbor said that he would NEVER do it again in Fruitland Park.

[The Buckeyes]

From what I can tell, the entire Lake County Department of Growth Management has 29 employees. The department is responsible for building services, contractor licensing, development planning, zoning and something called "enterprise zone development".

Among the 29 employees there are:

One (1) Building Services Manager

Three (3) Permitting Technicians

Three (3) Plans Examiners

Two (2) Building Inspectors

It's kind of hard to get really current information. But in recent years, Lake County has issued residential building permits in the range of 300 to 600 per year. The Villages is building and selling 300-400 houses or villas a month, all in Sumter County.

I tried to compare Lake County to Sumter County's Department of Building Services. I couldn't get any information on staffing. But their process for plan review and permitting seemed very precise. In fact, their website says that building inspections can be requested and conducted twenty-four hours a day and that any inspection requested before midnight would be conducted the next day. It's kind of hard to imagine that the two Lake County inspectors could deal with inspecting 19 houses a week for all the various of stages of construction requiring inspection (structural, framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, final, certificate of occupancy, etc.).

While it's only anecdotal information, my neighbor is in the process of completing a really nice rental house on CR 468 in Fruitland Park. It took him almost two years to get the necessary permits to begin construction. At one point he became so frustrated with the slowness and inefficiency of the process that he almost put the property back up for sale. The house is almost done now, a dramatic improvement over the unoccupied, overgrown, windowless, unpainted structure that it replaced. But my neighbor said that he would NEVER do it again in Fruitland Park.

Kahuna is correct about the situation. When our home was being built I asked our sales rep why they could build so quick down here and up north, even in good weather it takes 6 months. His answer was that a lot had to do with inspections and permits and not waiting days to obtain them. I assume (hate to use that term) that inspectors are on site throughout areas being built and permits are issued immediately when needed.

[njbchbum]

[QUOTE=Villages Kahuna;749712]Typically, the fees charged by governmental building departments basically cover their costs of operation, They're not "profit makers".
snipped
QUOTE]


maybe that's the issue - here in my little corner of jersey, our community makes a lot more than covering the cost of the operation. some in city hall refer to it as one of the town's cash cows! i just hate to see f.p. lose out on the funds generated by those permits and inspections! ;)

thanx for the post - and i get it. ;)

[chuckinca]

Will these new homes have bonds? Issued by?

.

[mac9]

Will these new homes have bonds? Issued by?

.

But I thought that there are no bonds in Lake County.

[graciegirl]

From what I can tell, the entire Lake County Department of Growth Management has 29 employees. The department is responsible for building services, contractor licensing, development planning, zoning and something called "enterprise zone development".



Among the 29 employees there are:

One (1) Building Services Manager


Three (3) Permitting Technicians


Three (3) Plans Examiners


Two (2) Building Inspectors
It's kind of hard to get really current information. But in recent years, Lake County has issued residential building permits in the range of 300 to 600 per year. The Villages is building and selling 300-400 houses or villas a month, all in Sumter County.

I tried to compare Lake County to Sumter County's Department of Building Services. I couldn't get any information on staffing. But their process for plan review and permitting seemed very precise. In fact, their website says that building inspections can be requested and conducted twenty-four hours a day and that any inspection requested before midnight would be conducted the next day. It's kind of hard to imagine that the two Lake County inspectors could deal with inspecting 19 houses a week for all the various of stages of construction requiring inspection (structural, framing, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, final, certificate of occupancy, etc.).

While it's only anecdotal information, my neighbor is in the process of completing a really nice rental house on CR 468 in Fruitland Park. It took him almost two years to get the necessary permits to begin construction. At one point he became so frustrated with the slowness and inefficiency of the process that he almost put the property back up for sale. The house is almost done now, a dramatic improvement over the unoccupied, overgrown, windowless, unpainted structure that it replaced. But my neighbor said that he would NEVER do it again in Fruitland Park.


You haven't posted for awhile and in fact a new-er poster calls himself Kahuna.

I had almost forgotten what a great ability you have to explain complex situations clearly and accurately.

It is so good to see you posting again.

[blueash]

"Beliveau’s study estimates that the Villages will pay more than $13 million in impact fees and inspection fees, building permits and the like the city will need to add and equip an estimated nine police officers at a cost of more than $1 million the first year and $750,000 per year annually. Improvements to the city’s water system will cost more than $3.5 million."

Does that sentence from the article not suggest that inspection fees are going to the local community? Otherwise how is that 13 million linked to the cost of increased police etc unless it is an asset to be drawn against.

If Lake County is granting the building permits and those permits require inspections, as they must, wouldn't Lake County have to maintain responsibility for enforcement? In the event of failures in the new construction which could in part be a result of inadequate inspections would Sumter County be responsible for those failures and the inevitable lawsuits if it provided the inspection services? The perception that Lake county is unable to do its own permitting and inspection would reflect poorly on Lake. If this project is going to go forward there would seem to be no reason that Lake County couldn't hire additional qualified persons to do whatever permitting and inspections are required. If Mr. Morse wouldn't accept that situation I would wonder why. I cannot imagine a county ever ceding control of one of its central functions to a smaller neighboring county.

[OldManTime]

Annex into sumter, then get permits

[OldManTime]

Which Gary?

Morse or Lester

[OldManTime]

I'm not gonna take issue with most of your comments, so many are not factual, just one that stands out, is Lake county has 5x the building officials for permitting than Sumter, but the permitting wouldn't be done by Lake county, it would be done by the city of Fruitland park, just as Harold Schwartz choose to do.

[thelegges]

easier to wait and see

[Bogie Shooter]

easier to wait and see

That seldom seems to be an option on TOTV!:thumbup:

[bkcunningham1]

That seldom seems to be an option on TOTV!:thumbup:

Thus the discussion forum's name, "Talk" of the Villages and not "Wait and see" of The Villages. ;~)

[mulligan]

In sumter, the inspectors are hired by TV, and the building dep't sign's off on the inspector's reports. It's a common practice in Florida known as "threshold inspections".

[NJblue]

Really, unless you live real close to the "dairy property" or if you live in Fruitland Park and not The Villages, there is no big deal.

Other than probably having CR 466A widened all the way to US 441, which might not happen if the Fruitland Park part of The Villages isn't developed, it won't affect the rest of us at all.

While I agree with most of your assesments of this issue, I'm not sure about this one. This would be a sizeable addition to TV. Anytime a great number of additional residents are added to a population that share amenities, there is a logical question about whether this addition will upset the established expectation about access to the shared resources.

From the quoted newspaper article, it appears that the plan would include "a golf course". I assume/hope that this is an executive course since there have been no additional exec courses added to the master plan despite significant additions to residential units over the past years. If it is an executive course, there would be additional demand on championship courses without additional resources being added to meet that demand.

Will there be any additional large rec centers with sports pools and fitness centers? Those at Colony and Seabreeze are already over-burdened and from what I have heard, the new one (Eisenhower) will not have a fitness center. If that trend continues and with thousands of additional residents being added to the plan, it is premature to say that there will be no impact on us.

Even traffic/safety could be impacted. There is already a problem with golf cart traffic trying to cross the street leading to Colony Plaza. This plan would add thousands of additional golf carts that utilize that intersection. Perhaps this could be addressed with a tunnel or something, but until that is covered in the plan, we have a right to question the impacts.

[Shimpy]

Other than probably having CR 466A widened all the way to US 441, which might not happen if the Fruitland Park part of The Villages isn't developed, it won't affect the rest of us at all.

I'd really hate to see that nice 2 lane country road widen to 4 lanes. Then what, strip shopping centers.

[perrjojo]

I'd really hate to see that nice 2 lane country road widen to 4 lanes. Then what, strip shopping centers.

2 lane country roads and beautiful, serene pastures with cattle grazing make for a pleasant drive and a beautiful view. Four lane roads and strip shopping malls make for greater employment and a growing economy. Future generations still need a growing economy. It's called progress.

[asianthree]

While I agree with most of your assesments of this issue, I'm not sure about this one. This would be a sizeable addition to TV. Anytime a great number of additional residents are added to a population that share amenities, there is a logical question about whether this addition will upset the established expectation about access to the shared resources.

From the quoted newspaper article, it appears that the plan would include "a golf course". I assume/hope that this is an executive course since there have been no additional exec courses added to the master plan despite significant additions to residential units over the past years. If it is an executive course, there would be additional demand on championship courses without additional resources being added to meet that demand.

Will there be any additional large rec centers with sports pools and fitness centers? Those at Colony and Seabreeze are already over-burdened and from what I have heard, the new one (Eisenhower) will not have a fitness center. If that trend continues and with thousands of additional residents being added to the plan, it is premature to say that there will be no impact on us.

Even traffic/safety could be impacted. There is already a problem with golf cart traffic trying to cross the street leading to Colony Plaza. This plan would add thousands of additional golf carts that utilize that intersection. Perhaps this could be addressed with a tunnel or something, but until that is covered in the plan, we have a right to question the impacts.

since we belong to a large fitness center up north..it was a great disipointment to see the fitness area at seabreeze...plus extra $$ to use the few machines that are available...its just not a perk on our end..

[quirky3]

While I agree with most of your assesments of this issue, I'm not sure about this one. This would be a sizeable addition to TV. Anytime a great number of additional residents are added to a population that share amenities, there is a logical question about whether this addition will upset the established expectation about access to the shared resources.

From the quoted newspaper article, it appears that the plan would include "a golf course". I assume/hope that this is an executive course since there have been no additional exec courses added to the master plan despite significant additions to residential units over the past years. If it is an executive course, there would be additional demand on championship courses without additional resources being added to meet that demand.

Will there be any additional large rec centers with sports pools and fitness centers? Those at Colony and Seabreeze are already over-burdened and from what I have heard, the new one (Eisenhower) will not have a fitness center. If that trend continues and with thousands of additional residents being added to the plan, it is premature to say that there will be no impact on us.

Even traffic/safety could be impacted. There is already a problem with golf cart traffic trying to cross the street leading to Colony Plaza. This plan would add thousands of additional golf carts that utilize that intersection. Perhaps this could be addressed with a tunnel or something, but until that is covered in the plan, we have a right to question the impacts.

Thank you for a good, common sense observation.

[DianeM]

Really, unless you live real close to the "dairy property" or if you live in Fruitland Park and not The Villages, there is no big deal.

Other than probably having CR 466A widened all the way to US 441, which might not happen if the Fruitland Park part of The Villages isn't developed, it won't affect the rest of us at all.

That's what I thought so I'm at a loss to try to understand why people are up in arms. Don't want to share their lifestyle?

[champion6]

That's what I thought so I'm at a loss to try to understand why people are up in arms. Don't want to share their lifestyle?For quite a few years, TV has been building homes in unincorporated Sumter County. The property had been purchased years ago (I don't know how many years). They have just kept rolling along, a.k.a "A Building Machine" (my words). New villages have been created, as well as town centers.

Now for the new "attention getters."

For the first time in quite a while, TV wants to purchase a sizable parcel. It is located in Lake County and within Fruitland Park. This location requires public notices and public meetings and public hearings which we newer residents have not witnessed before. And so you are witnessing the "excitement" that follows these meetings.

The reality is TV is adding a couple more villages with pools, a rec center, and a golf course. Same old, same old. BUT it is making headlines because of these meetings.

Here is a preliminary site plan for the property. It indicates there will be123 Premiers, 1647 Designers and 202 Villas. It seems to show (my guess) 2 Neighborhood pools, 1 Village rec center, and 1 Executive golf course.

[scot_atc]

I imagine there are a few folks that are anticipating their property value going up dramatically with build out, and this delays that in their mind.

[NJblue]

For quite a few years, TV has been building homes in unincorporated Sumter County. The property had been purchased years ago (I don't know how many years). They have just kept rolling along, a.k.a "A Building Machine" (my words). New villages have been created, as well as town centers.

Now for the new "attention getters."

For the first time in quite a while, TV wants to purchase a sizable parcel. It is located in Lake County and within Fruitland Park. This location requires public notices and public meetings and public hearings which we newer residents have not witnessed before. And so you are witnessing the "excitement" that follows these meetings.

The reality is TV is adding a couple more villages with pools, a rec center, and a golf course. Same old, same old. BUT it is making headlines because of these meetings.

Here is a preliminary site plan for the property. It indicates there will be123 Premiers, 1647 Designers and 202 Villas. It seems to show (my guess) 2 Neighborhood pools, 1 Village rec center, and 1 Executive golf course.

This is not just "same old, same old". The Villages is a master planned community. When all that property was purchased years ago, they had the ability to develop a master plan for the entire concept. This included traffic engineering, water/sewer planning, golf course and other amenity planning. As long as the project was constrained by the original size and scope, the only thing necessary, if the original planning was done well (and it seems to have been), is minor tweeks to the plan. This is the advantage that master planned communities have over normal communities and their suburban sprawl.

Now, however, they have been deviating from the original plan. First by additions to rooftops (as houses are referred to by the CDD) in lands previously designated as commercial as well as relatively minor new land acquisitions and now by a major land acquisition. Since these additions were not part of the original plan, it's anyone's guess as to how well they will be integrated into the existing plan, but clearly those who laid out the original plan many years ago, did not include all these new houses in their overall plan. Will it look well planned 10 years from now? Or, will it resemble suburban sprawl?

[GPGuar]

Is there anyway to see the new FP site plan up close and more clearly?

[gomoho]

So do you think Fruitland Park will be thought of as part of TV or always thought of as "that other community"? Just seems like it will be so separate from the rest of us it won't have the same continuous flow most neighborhoods enjoy.

[graciegirl]

So do you think Fruitland Park will be thought of as part of TV or always thought of as "that other community"? Just seems like it will be so separate from the rest of us it won't have the same continuous flow most neighborhoods enjoy.
Why should it be any different than Chatham which is in Marion county or Mira Mesa which is in Lake County. This is just another village in Lake county. No big deal.

[OldManTime]

I'm willing to make a wager that Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer.

[graciegirl]

I'm willing to make a wager that Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer.


Five dollars?

[TexaninVA]

That sounds ugly. "in their pocket". I am so tired of this disdain toward the Morse family for no good reason.

Agree ... people need to get past the simplistic good/evil caricatures. I am SO tired of that as well.

It is compellingly obvious ... had the 'evil' bad guy etc Gary Morse not done his capitalistic, free market thing, none of us would be living here, because TV would never have gotten off the ground. Nor, for that matter, would TOTV even exist. :)

[buzzy]

Mystic Ice Cream is already expanding. Do they know something?

[DianeM]

This is not just "same old, same old". The Villages is a master planned community. When all that property was purchased years ago, they had the ability to develop a master plan for the entire concept. This included traffic engineering, water/sewer planning, golf course and other amenity planning. As long as the project was constrained by the original size and scope, the only thing necessary, if the original planning was done well (and it seems to have been), is minor tweeks to the plan. This is the advantage that master planned communities have over normal communities and their suburban sprawl.

Now, however, they have been deviating from the original plan. First by additions to rooftops (as houses are referred to by the CDD) in lands previously designated as commercial as well as relatively minor new land acquisitions and now by a major land acquisition. Since these additions were not part of the original plan, it's anyone's guess as to how well they will be integrated into the existing plan, but clearly those who laid out the original plan many years ago, did not include all these new houses in their overall plan. Will it look well planned 10 years from now? Or, will it resemble suburban sprawl?

Will it really matter 10 years from now? As long as the amenities that made you / us buy here still exist who cares how big it is. There are millions of "boomers " who may want to live here and it seems wise to plan for them.

[NJblue]

Will it really matter 10 years from now? As long as the amenities that made you / us buy here still exist who cares how big it is. There are millions of "boomers " who may want to live here and it seems wise to plan for them.

Well, I certainly hope to be here 10 years from now and would not look forward to deterioration every year from now until then.

As to the amenities, that is one of my concerns. The master plan called for amenities sized according to the TV footprint and its corresponding population that was in existence many years ago when the land was purchased. That maximum population is now changing. Unless all amenities are increased accordingly, their availability will be continually decreasing.

When you say it is wise to plan for the millions of boomers, you certainly don't think that TV needs to accomodate all of them. At some point, any community, no matter how great it may be when it was originally planned will be negatively impacted by a population that exceeds it original planning. I have been here 5 years and in those 5 years I have seen the impact of the growth in terms of traffic congestion and other infrastructure impacts during the snowbird season. Yet, this is all within the current planning; add even more residents to this with additional property acquisition and things will only get worse.

[bluedog103]

:BigApplause:Well, I certainly hope to be here 10 years from now and would not look forward to deterioration every year from now until then.

As to the amenities, that is one of my concerns. The master plan called for amenities sized according to the TV footprint and its corresponding population that was in existence many years ago when the land was purchased. That maximum population is now changing. Unless all amenities are increased accordingly, their availability will be continually decreasing.

When you say it is wise to plan for the millions of boomers, you certainly don't think that TV needs to accomodate all of them. At some point, any community, no matter how great it may be when it was originally planned will be negatively impacted by a population that exceeds it original planning. I have been here 5 years and in those 5 years I have seen the impact of the growth in terms of traffic congestion and other infrastructure impacts during the snowbird season. Yet, this is all within the current planning; add even more residents to this with additional property acquisition and things will only get worse.
Have you seen the master plan?

[NJblue]

:BigApplause:
Have you seen the master plan?

Yes I have. It's basically what you see being developed now in terms of golf courses and rec centers. Since it was developed they have acquired more land around Lake Deaton, converted land formerly designated as commercial to create additional residential communities and are now talking about yet another large land purchase.

[DianeM]

Of course not all boomers will come here but it would be short sighted not to plan. Growth is progress.

[gomoho]

IMHO - they may need to think about converting some championship courses to executive 'cause tee times will be just to difficult to get at build out. I know lots of folks say they don't have a problem during high season, but we sure have and I'm only looking at playing 2-3 times a week.

[NJblue]

Of course not all boomers will come here but it would be short sighted not to plan. Growth is progress.

They did plan. That plan was developed years ago. Now they are trying to make modifications to that plan on the go. My point is that to say that additions of large tracks of land will not have an impact is very myopic.

[champion6]

So do you think Fruitland Park will be thought of as part of TV or always thought of as "that other community"? Just seems like it will be so separate from the rest of us it won't have the same continuous flow most neighborhoods enjoy.It won't seen detached when completed. It appears to me that Hilsborough Trail will extend eastward into the southwest portion, and Farner Place (at TV Health, Colony Care Center) will extend eastward into the northwest portion. Plus one entrance from 466A into the northeast portion.

[DianeM]

They did plan. That plan was developed years ago. Now they are trying to make modifications to that plan on the go. My point is that to say that additions of large tracks of land will not have an impact is very myopic.

I'm sorry but change is part of living. Nothing is ever set in stone. "Years ago " was a different viewpoint. Times change.

[justjim]

There are always some opposed to economic development. Two lane roads (maybe even gravel) and cows grazing is their thing----around this area we are way passed that concept. This (as I posted on another thread) is a big win for Fruitland Park and Lake County. No increase population for their schools, $$$$$ from taxes and Jobs.

And, I might add, 4,000 more Villagers to buy Cars, Golf carts, and ice cream. Such a deal.

I must admit that I don't know the "political climate" for the area but I find it hard to believe that they would turn down this proposed project by the Village's Developer. Other cities would give "their eye teeth" for a chance at economic development like what is proposed by the TV Developer.

I only see minimum impact, if any, on current residents. Perhaps this will help bring a Macy's or Dillard's ---maybe even another Publix to TV. Oh, what am I saying!

[Bogie Shooter]

Trouble, oh we got trouble,
Right here in River City!
With a capital "T"
That rhymes with "P"
And that stands for Pool,
That stands for pool.
We've surely got trouble!
Right here in River City,
Right here!
Gotta figure out a way
To keep the young ones moral after school!
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble.....................................:clap2 ::clap2:

Read more: Music Man - Ya Got Trouble Lyrics | MetroLyrics

[DianeM]

There are always some opposed to economic development. Two lane roads (maybe even gravel) and cows grazing is their thing----around this area we are way passed that concept. This (as I posted on another thread) is a big win for Fruitland Park and Lake County. No increase population for their schools, $$$$$ from taxes and Jobs.

And, I might add, 4,000 more Villagers to buy Cars, Golf carts, and ice cream. Such a deal.

I must admit that I don't know the "political climate" for the area but I find it hard to believe that they would turn down this proposed project by the Village's Developer. Other cities would give "their eye teeth" for a chance at economic development like what is proposed by the TV Developer.

I only see minimum impact, if any, on current residents. Perhaps this will help bring a Macy's or Dillard's ---maybe even another Publix to TV. Oh, what am I saying!

I can't see anything bad but then again I like new stuff.

[NJblue]

I can't see anything bad but then again I like new stuff.

Other than more houses, more traffic and more people contending for the same things like sports pools, workout equipment, tee times, seats in the theaters or Savannah Center and water from the aquifer what would be new? One of the reasons we moved away from the Northeast was that we were tired of that lifestyle. I'd hate for it to follow us down here.

[Golf-Tinker]

Would you buy a house in the Villages of Fruitland Park if you were prohibited from driving anywhere else in the Villages to dine, to play sports or to make use of the recreational activities by golf cart? It will be an island. Perhaps a very nice island, but still an island.

[champion6]

Would you buy a house in the Villages of Fruitland Park if you were prohibited from driving anywhere else in the Villages to dine, to play sports or to make use of the recreational activities by golf cart? It will be an island. Perhaps a very nice island, but still an island.Of course you wouldn't buy. But that is not the design that will be built. Streets and cart paths will connect to those immediately to the west.

[Harry Gilbert]

Seeing as there have been multiple threads and numerous posts on this subject, It would be interesting to hear the point of view from a current Fruitland Park resident.

[bluedog103]

If it's left to the residents of Fruitland Park I doubt if this will fly. This is too much growth way too quickly. Fruitland Park residents, some of whom come from families who have lived there for generations will be giving up control of their hometown in a matter of months, once the construction begins. Some of you may have noticed but many locals have an intense dislike for Villagers. You can call it jealousy, resentment, prejudice or whatever but this feeling is real. Even other transplants from the north dislike us. I actually spend a good deal of time in activities out of TV and am a member of outside organizations and while locals may like us as individuals, they tend to dislike most everything about The Villages starting with the perception of a heavy handed developer changing their slice of Florida and the way they live. This may be real or it may be a classic example of ethnocentrism. In any case, there's a strong anti-Villages bias in the local community and I doubt if they feel they need an influx of 4000 new outsiders to make their community wonderful. Most likely they're comfortable the way things are and would have a different word to describe what a developer or outsiders call progress.

[DianeM]

Most retailers smile in your face but secretly dispise Villagers because many seem to have an "entitlement attitude ".

[DianeM]

Would you buy a house in the Villages of Fruitland Park if you were prohibited from driving anywhere else in the Villages to dine, to play sports or to make use of the recreational activities by golf cart? It will be an island. Perhaps a very nice island, but still an island.

Wouldn't care personally because I'm not a fan of them.

[Bogie Shooter]

Wouldn't care personally because I'm not a fan of them.

Who or what is them?

[Bonny]

You caught me....I'm Gary's daughter!

Ummmm If you look at my post you will notice I copied the article from the paper. I made a point of going back to edit it with quotes to indicate it was just that... a quote. I didn't give my thoughts one way or the other...

Now... leave me alone, or I will tell dad on you.

:BigApplause: :D

[DianeM]

Who or what is them?

Golf carts. Wouldn't have one if it was given to me.

[graciegirl]

Would you buy a house in the Villages of Fruitland Park if you were prohibited from driving anywhere else in the Villages to dine, to play sports or to make use of the recreational activities by golf cart? It will be an island. Perhaps a very nice island, but still an island.

I thought it was contiguous to Charlotte. How could that be a problem...just an add on. It will be connected to the other parts of TV just as all of the villages are.

Fruitland park annexed the land right up next to us a while back.

The really populated part of Fruitland park isn't very near us.

[janmcn]

Anybody who wants a good look at what this development will look like can go to
the Villages online newspaper (not the Daily Sun) and click on the article on Thurs night's meeting. According to this drawing, there will be one 18 hole executive golf course, two average size recreation centers, and it looks like one larger rec center. The drawing doesn't show any neighborhood pools, and it appears there will only be one entrance/exit off of 466A.

[champion6]

Well, time will tell, but I interpret the plat differently.

It indicates there will be123 Premiers, 1647 Designers and 202 Villas.

I think it shows 2 Neighborhood pools, 1 Village recreation center, and 1 golf course.

It appears to me that Hilsborough Trail will extend eastward into the southwest portion, and Farner Place (at TV Health, Colony Care Center) will extend eastward into the northwest portion. Plus one entrance from 466A into the northeast portion.

Anyway, that's what I see.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I really don't think that I could care any less about any of this. Whether the Villages expands in Fruitland Park will not affect me one iota.

[ROCKETMAN]

Don't care one way or another. I don't go out to eat in busy season at 5pm and still get two executive and two championship tee times a week. Hope new publix will be built by that time.

[maddie101]

I really don't think that I could care any less about any of this. Whether the Villages expands in Fruitland Park will not affect me one iota.

Not in a negative way, but supply and demand. While this is a good thing for Fruitland Park, wouldn't our home values go up faster without 2000 more homes? Everyone who purchased recently was told TV would not be building more and now was the time to jump in...and 4000 more bodies in restaurants, etc. I think 4000 people has to effect us one iota, even if not in a very negative way. It will become part of TV
Of couse we bought of the lifestyle, not to resell... But everyone likes to think their homes have appreciated.

[Pturner]

It has long fascinated me how people move to trendy, rapidly-growing area and want to close the gate behind them. This phenomenon is not unique to TV, it happens all over the country. Heck, it probably happens all over the developing world.

Original Villagers never dreamed TV would cross 441. Later Villagers didn't envision it crossing 446. Still later, many villagers wrung their hands over the expansion below 446a. Now, true to form, many Villagers both above and below 446a lament the proposed expansion into Fruitland Park.

Me? I welcome the would-be future residents of proposed The Villages of Fruitland Park, along with the new amenities to which we'll all have access.

:welcome: :thumbup: :beer3:

[perrjojo]

It has long fascinated me how people move to trendy, rapidly-growing area and want to close the gate behind them. This phenomenon is not unique to TV, it happens all over the country. Heck, it probably happens all over the developing world.

Original Villagers never dreamed TV would cross 441. Later Villagers didn't envision it crossing 446. Still later, many villagers wrung their hands over the expansion below 446a. Now, true to form, many Villagers both above and below 446a lament the proposed expansion into Fruitland Park.

Me? I welcome the would-be future residents of proposed The Villages of Fruitland Park, along with the new amenities to which we'll all have access.

:welcome: :thumbup: :beer3::agree::a040:

Amazing, isn't it? I have seen this in several places I have lived. It's great for me but don't let anyone else in!

[Villageshooter]

That sounds ugly. "in their pocket". I am so tired of this disdain toward the Morse family for no good reason.
if u r tired of it just move on ,,,, we all dont drink the koolaide! every one is entitled to an opinion ,, mr morris might not agree we do,, (morris spelled that way on purpose) yes i believe some of the officials are in there back pocket! we need vic mackey here to clean this place up!

[Villageshooter]

Not in a negative way, but supply and demand. While this is a good thing for Fruitland Park, wouldn't our home values go up faster without 2000 more homes? Everyone who purchased recently was told TV would not be building more and now was the time to jump in...and 4000 more bodies in restaurants, etc. I think 4000 people has to effect us one iota, even if not in a very negative way. It will become part of TV
Of couse we bought of the lifestyle, not to resell... But everyone likes to think their homes have appreciated.
u believed what they told u!? u really drank the koolaide,,, the mooris family will build this place to the shores of lake erie if they think there are more suckers that will pay these outragous prices for homes that shoddy built in no time at all by unskilled labor in a right to work state. if ICE ever showed up on a job site most of the workers would run like rats.
if they stop building it would be like McDonalds saying we have sold enough hamburgers
the line ur were feed is like Limited time only for the McRib!, get real!,

[Villageshooter]

It has long fascinated me how people move to trendy, rapidly-growing area and want to close the gate behind them. This phenomenon is not unique to TV, it happens all over the country. Heck, it probably happens all over the developing world.

Original Villagers never dreamed TV would cross 441. Later Villagers didn't envision it crossing 446. Still later, many villagers wrung their hands over the expansion below 446a. Now, true to form, many Villagers both above and below 446a lament the proposed expansion into Fruitland Park.

Me? I welcome the would-be future residents of proposed The Villages of Fruitland Park, along with the new amenities to which we'll all have access.

:welcome: :thumbup: :beer3:

i will dead an gone before all this really matters,, my kids will sell my place at a cheap price and split it up! why should I worry bout it! .

[graciegirl]

I fall for it every time and get mad. The people who built our homes are excellent builders. Each team is trained and skilled. I watched 10 men putting our roof on when the heat index was over 100. Another group of women workers caulked every interior seam. I could go on and on.

My blood boils when I read stuff like this. Just like us, many have built several homes in other places and can see the quality.

I don't know the Morses, but I can tell by all they stand behind,,umm hidden too, lol, that they are upright people.

I feel like I want to smack somebody. Deep breaths Gracie.

[jojo]

Since folks who do not live in The Villages and those who are considering moving here read this forum, I feel compelled to comment that the quality of home building here is excellent. Gracie is spot on as usual. I've never lived in a place where there is a home warranty system that stands behind even the most minor flaw.

[gomoho]

WOW - I think someone is having a really, really, really bad day. Hope things look up for them.

[lpkshop]

Do you think folks yearly hate it here or just pretending so no one else moves here? I am all for new development . We moved in in December south of 466a and I love it. Yes there are lots of rules but nothing I didn't know about before . So maybe if you hate it it's time to leave? It would be terrible to live my last chapters Hating everything. Keep smiling!

[Bogie Shooter]

This recent poster is a baiter. Go back and look at all of his posts, there are no positive posts, no informative posts. Posts are only ranting about most any topic but especially about his poor situation living here in The Villages.
Isn't it time for him to move on.....................to where ever?

[skip0358]

Would you buy a house in the Villages of Fruitland Park if you were prohibited from driving anywhere else in the Villages to dine, to play sports or to make use of the recreational activities by golf cart? It will be an island. Perhaps a very nice island, but still an island.

Look at the map drawing of the new parcel. It connects to TV and also has an entrance off 466A.

[Jayhawk]

if u r tired of it just move on ,,,, we all dont drink the koolaide! every one is entitled to an opinion ,, mr morris might not agree we do,, (morris spelled that way on purpose) yes i believe some of the officials are in there back pocket! we need vic mackey here to clean this place up!


Perhaps you should consider taking your own advice and "move on". You are obviously a very unsatisfied resident. Why continue to torture yourself by living in what is apparently, to you, a truly awful place?

Please, for your own good, call a realtor today.

:wave:

[Mr.Kris]

I find a kernel truth in most everything I read on TOTV. While in some cases I would phrase it differently.

The visuals on the relationship between the developer and the VCCDD, for example, could be considered not being an "arms-length transaction." "In their pocket" would be a slightly harsher way of saying the same thing. The IRS termed it that "The Center District has in effect been operated as an alter ego of the Developer."

Whether the term "in their pocket" is inflammatory, or the IRS is a loathed organization, is not the point.

The point is, history has shown that individuals that are affected by these relationships, such as TV residents, are always better served in transparent arms-length transactions. And you should care.

[janmcn]

I find a kernel truth in most everything I read on TOTV. While in some cases I would phrase it differently.

The visuals on the relationship between the developer and the VCCDD, for example, could be considered not being an "arms-length transaction." "In their pocket" would be a slightly harsher way of saying the same thing. The IRS termed it that "The Center District has in effect been operated as an alter ego of the Developer."

Whether the term "in their pocket" is inflammatory, or the IRS is a loathed organization, is not the point.

The point is, history has shown that individuals that are affected by these relationships, such as TV residents, are always better served in transparent arms-length transactions. And you should care.



The "in their pocket" comment had to do with issuing permits and conducting
inspections. Any poster who disagrees with that comment is welcome to post all the times a Sumter County official, appointed or elected, has bucked the developer on any issue.

[Bogie Shooter]

That mean old developer..............................

[Challenger]

u believed what they told u!? u really drank the koolaide,,, the mooris family will build this place to the shores of lake erie if they think there are more suckers that will pay these outragous prices for homes that shoddy built in no time at all by unskilled labor in a right to work state. if ICE ever showed up on a job site most of the workers would run like rats.
if they stop building it would be like McDonalds saying we have sold enough hamburgers
the line ur were feed is like Limited time only for the McRib!, get real!,

My 8th and 9th homes are here in TV. Of all of the other 7, none was as high for quality as TV. Incredible followup by builder and warranty dept. Love the restrictions. Wish they went even further. I have financed many developers and projects in my career and none has been better than this one.

The quoted post is just baiting and is painting a misleading picture , for what purpose, I don't know.

I am a very skeptical person, but this place is for real.

[collie1228]

Responding to a troll only encourages him/her. For the record, I love this place and can't think of anywhere in the entire world I would rather spend my retirement. And I don't care a whit whether my house gains in value or not. It's not an investment, it's a house.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

u believed what they told u!? u really drank the koolaide,,, the mooris family will build this place to the shores of lake erie if they think there are more suckers that will pay these outragous prices for homes that shoddy built in no time at all by unskilled labor in a right to work state. if ICE ever showed up on a job site most of the workers would run like rats.
if they stop building it would be like McDonalds saying we have sold enough hamburgers
the line ur were feed is like Limited time only for the McRib!, get real!,

You're right. I don't know why anyone would live here. How much are you asking for your over priced shoddily built house? I know some suckers that might be willing to take it off your hands.

[Moderator]

A reminder, the topic is the proposed expansion of The Villages into Fruitland Park.

Inflammatory posts and responses to them are too numerous to prune out.

Suggest we ignore them and return to topic or we will need to close this thread.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Not in a negative way, but supply and demand. While this is a good thing for Fruitland Park, wouldn't our home values go up faster without 2000 more homes? Everyone who purchased recently was told TV would not be building more and now was the time to jump in...and 4000 more bodies in restaurants, etc. I think 4000 people has to effect us one iota, even if not in a very negative way. It will become part of TV
Of couse we bought of the lifestyle, not to resell... But everyone likes to think their homes have appreciated.

I will still get up every day and do the same things. I will still jump in my golf cart and go over the bridge to go to Publix, the Town Square or a local restaurant. I will still go to the pool and to the rec centers to play pool and participate in my clubs. I'll get in my car when I need to go to Ocala or Leesburg or Disney World.

I see so much negative on this site. So many people worried about so many little things. "My neighbor puts his trash out too early. The people down the road painted their front door green. The developer is going to build more houses". Can't some of you just relax and enjoy this great life that we all have the opportunity to enjoy.

#1) Stop sweating the little things.
#2) They're all little things.

Honestly, I don't know why or how I get drawn into some of these discussions and start my day off with a bunch of negative crap.

[Jayhawk]

[QUOTE=Dr Winston O Boogie jr;752284]

#1) Stop sweating the little things.
#2) They're all little things.

QUOTE]


BEST. POST. YET.

:pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2:

[RVRoadie]

I can't tell from the articles if this development is an extension of TV, or a new stand alone family housing development. Does anyone know?

[Peachie]

I find a kernel truth in most everything I read on TOTV. While in some cases I would phrase it differently.

The visuals on the relationship between the developer and the VCCDD, for example, could be considered not being an "arms-length transaction." "In their pocket" would be a slightly harsher way of saying the same thing. The IRS termed it that "The Center District has in effect been operated as an alter ego of the Developer."

Whether the term "in their pocket" is inflammatory, or the IRS is a loathed organization, is not the point.

The point is, history has shown that individuals that are affected by these relationships, such as TV residents, are always better served in transparent arms-length transactions. And you should care.


Well, Kris, we don't care. Many of us here are on the "20 year plan" and many of us, less.

I see your agenda, please don't buy in The Villages, you will never be happy here. The are a few posters on TOTV that never should have bought a home here either. Doesn't make them wrong, doesn't make us wrong.

Life is too short for such angst when purchasing your retirement home. There are so many retirement homes in Florida that would meet your criteria and, unfortunately, you're too late to change the mindset of those of us that love it here during our very limited days.

I wish you well in your hunt for a home and to create further angst for your consideration of moving to The Villages, read Lauren Ritche's articles from the O Sentinel. You two would have a lot in common and I think you would realize this is the type of community structure you wouldn't be happy living in.

The rest of us will suffer on.... :wave:

[mulligan]

It's an extension along 466A to the east of the sarasota driving range area.

[NJblue]

It has long fascinated me how people move to trendy, rapidly-growing area and want to close the gate behind them. This phenomenon is not unique to TV, it happens all over the country. Heck, it probably happens all over the developing world.

Original Villagers never dreamed TV would cross 441. Later Villagers didn't envision it crossing 446. Still later, many villagers wrung their hands over the expansion below 446a. Now, true to form, many Villagers both above and below 446a lament the proposed expansion into Fruitland Park.

Me? I welcome the would-be future residents of proposed The Villages of Fruitland Park, along with the new amenities to which we'll all have access.

:welcome: :thumbup: :beer3:

I think your narrative is faulty. I don't know of anyone who wrung their hands about any of the expansions that were part of the original plan. Perhaps for the VERY early Villagers the expansion was a surprise, but with that expansion came positive things like town centers and the shared amenities grew with the population.

It was always made perfectly clear to future buyers that the expansion would continue until the land owned down to Rt 44 was completed. Anyone who wrung their hands about this has nobody but themselves to blame.

This situation is different. A better analogy is buying into a health club or country club where the sellers tell you that membership will be capped at a certain figure. However, as that maximum number is approached, they decide to sell additional memberships. Would anyone complaining about that be accused of "wanting to close the door on a good thing"?

[Harry Gilbert]

NJBlue you are correct. This situation is different,

This is the assimilation of a neighboring town. TV is not moving into a parcel of land that is unincorporated. they are trying to utilize a portion of a existing town and limit access from that town into TV. and its not likely that the town of FP will remain the same.

Look at the numbers FP, Has 3000 (2010 Census over 18) possible registered voters and if TV moves in with 4000 potential voters then what will happen? FP politicians out and TV backed politicians in. Good thing or Bad? I don't know. But if I were A FP pol I wouldn't commit political suicide and let TV in.

[NJblue]

NJBlue you are correct. This situation is different,

This is the assimilation of a neighboring town. TV is not moving into a parcel of land that is unincorporated. they are trying to utilize a portion of a existing town and limit access from that town into TV. and its not likely that the town of FP will remain the same.

Look at the numbers FP, Has 3000 (2010 Census over 18) possible registered voters and if TV moves in with 4000 potential voters then what will happen? FP politicians out and TV backed politicians in. Good thing or Bad? I don't know. But if I were A FP pol I wouldn't commit political suicide and let TV in.

I think you are raising a completely different issue than what I was talking about. In fact, I don't think the Fruitland Park addition breaks any new ground. It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that Brownwood and its surrounding land is part of the incorporated part of Wildwood. Certainly the Lady Lake part of TV has long established this precedent.

But, as long as you raise this topic, it will be interesting to see how FP votes on this. I don't know the current politics of FP to know whether the current elected officials might be at odds with the very large segments of new voters. If, for example, they are very liberal, then the typically conservative voting block of Villagers may indeed sweep them out of office. However, if they are conservative, they could be giving themselves job security for life by adding another 4,000 people who tend to be conservative.

If I were a parent or current resident in FP, however, I may be very inclined to want 4,000 new taxpayers who do not put any additional demand on the schools but will provide sufficient taxes to upgrade all of the existing school and recreational facilities ... and provide more jobs to boot. I don't know how many people who have this type of thinking there are in FP versus those who don't want any change or outside influence. If the former outnumber the latter, it may be political suicide to NOT let TV in.

[Harry Gilbert]

Yes our two scenarios were completely different, I was borrowing "The situation is different" part of your statement.

I hadn't considered the political affiliation aspect, I was thinking more on the lines of age related issues. FP is a younger population and their needs are/will be different from the typical TV resident. I was thinking 5 years down the road when it comes time to build new schools or replace infrastructure in the non TV areas will the new voting block have the attitude that it's your problem not ours and we don't want OUR taxes raised and block any new funding for the existing town.

Just read some of the posts on this board and you can see where that feeling comes from

Lady Lake is a much larger town with only a small % of that TV and they've learned to live together. Wildwood is on par with FP but they don't allow golf carts on their streets (?) I don't remember seeing anything about any acrimony involving Wildwood. But a major issue was raised about FP having cart access into TV and that may be a stumbling block for the residents of FP. And to an outsider it comes across as we're moving in, we can(will) take over and you stay out of OUR area.

[Mr.Kris]

Well, Kris, we don't care. Many of us here are on the "20 year plan" and many of us, less.

I see your agenda, please don't buy in The Villages, you will never be happy here. The are a few posters on TOTV that never should have bought a home here either. Doesn't make them wrong, doesn't make us wrong.

Life is too short for such angst when purchasing your retirement home. There are so many retirement homes in Florida that would meet your criteria and, unfortunately, you're too late to change the mindset of those of us that love it here during our very limited days.

I wish you well in your hunt for a home and to create further angst for your consideration of moving to The Villages, read Lauren Ritche's articles from the O Sentinel. You two would have a lot in common and I think you would realize this is the type of community structure you wouldn't be happy living in.

The rest of us will suffer on.... :wave:

Pardon me if I don't take your advice or take your comments personally.

[graciegirl]

I think your narrative is faulty. I don't know of anyone who wrung their hands about any of the expansions that were part of the original plan. Perhaps for the VERY early Villagers the expansion was a surprise, but with that expansion came positive things like town centers and the shared amenities grew with the population.

It was always made perfectly clear to future buyers that the expansion would continue until the land owned down to Rt 44 was completed. Anyone who wrung their hands about this has nobody but themselves to blame.

This situation is different. A better analogy is buying into a health club or country club where the sellers tell you that membership will be capped at a certain figure. However, as that maximum number is approached, they decide to sell additional memberships. Would anyone complaining about that be accused of "wanting to close the door on a good thing"?


I have been as involved and as interested as any here and NO ONE told me what the ultimate plan was....a lot of villagers repeated a lot of stuff like it was gospel, but from the developer or his aides and assigns not a syllable.

[graciegirl]

NJBlue you are correct. This situation is different,

This is the assimilation of a neighboring town. TV is not moving into a parcel of land that is unincorporated. they are trying to utilize a portion of a existing town and limit access from that town into TV. and its not likely that the town of FP will remain the same.

Look at the numbers FP, Has 3000 (2010 Census over 18) possible registered voters and if TV moves in with 4000 potential voters then what will happen? FP politicians out and TV backed politicians in. Good thing or Bad? I don't know. But if I were A FP pol I wouldn't commit political suicide and let TV in.


The old sections, Orange Blossom, Country Club Hills are part of Lady Lake. Brownwood is part of Wildwood. This section is going to be part of Fruitland Park because they moved their borders right up against The Villages a couple of years ago.

[graciegirl]

I can't tell from the articles if this development is an extension of TV, or a new stand alone family housing development. Does anyone know?


This is exactly the same as Fernandina, Sanibel, Charlotte, Gilchrist, Collier. A couple of new villagers south of 466A , some are in Wildwood and have their police and some are going to be in Fruitland Park.

It will be.

And it will be fine.

Watch and see.

[njbchbum]

The old sections, Orange Blossom, Country Club Hills are part of Lady Lake. Brownwood is part of Wildwood. This section is going to be part of Fruitland Park because they moved their borders right up against The Villages a couple of years ago.

no way to tell how many of those folks will be full-time residents vs snowbirds though. would be a shame for fp to be assimilated and lose their own identity!

[graciegirl]

no way to tell how many of those folks will be full-time residents vs snowbirds though. would be a shame for fp to be assimilated and lose their own identity!


Kiddo.

Most of the population of Fruitland Park is up by the post office, miles away from the planned extension of The Villages. None of them will be changed a whit. No more than Wildwood or Lady Lake is changed by us being near. We are already a huge presence. Their daily lives will be the same, the current residents of Fruitland Park, but they will have more money in their tax base.

[Bogie Shooter]

The old sections, Orange Blossom, Country Club Hills are part of Lady Lake. Brownwood is part of Wildwood. This section is going to be part of Fruitland Park because they moved their borders right up against The Villages a couple of years ago.

Maybe to take advantage of a situation, that is now happening?

[NJblue]

I have been as involved and as interested as any here and NO ONE told me what the ultimate plan was....a lot of villagers repeated a lot of stuff like it was gospel, but from the developer or his aides and assigns not a syllable.

The plan has been public (on the county website) for years. It included the two regional Rec Centers (Eisenhower plus the other at the end of Morse). It included the exec golf courses as are currently being built plus the three around Sarasota. It also included one more 27 hole championship course off Morse once it is extended.

The problem is that since that plan was put together, numerous areas have already been added to the house-count but not a single addition from a planning perspective has been made to the amenities that are already over-burdened during snowbird season. The pools and the fitness centers at Colony and Seabreeze are already overwhelmed, yet, apparently they have decided to not even add a fitness center to Eisenhower (perhaps as a result of a deal with MVP to get them to come to Brownwood?) Getting a tee time on executive courses during the winter is a hit and miss chance such that when I put in a request I have to keep the group point count to under 2 by eliminating anyone who has the audacity of playing more than three times a week.

When we bought 5 years ago, it was well known that TV would expand to 44 and Brownwood would be built. Hence any hand wringing for that development can only come from someone who was not paying attention. It was also stated by our sales agent that that was when the development would stop.

I would have a lot less of an issue with continued growth if the population growth was met with corresponding amenity growth. It appears that with the exception of neighborhood pools, this is not the case. I applaud the plan for an additional golf course in the FP section should it go forward. I only hope that this golf course doesn't come at the cost of one of the planned three courses around Sarasota.

[graciegirl]

We will wait and see.

It will be hellish-er during the high season, but should be about the same during the other nine months.

They haven't revealed their hand as long as I have been observing them and they usually come up with something better than any place I have ever lived.

If you don't like it or I don't like it, people will be lined up to buy our houses, as it is now anyway, buncha boomers coming down the pike every day.

I have a five dollar bet with papa someone on whether or not Fruitland park will vote yay or nay. Of course they will say yes.

Certainly no one forces us to buy here, live here, stay here.

My cup is always half full.

But most times it runneth over.

[mulligan]

The vote to allow the project may be taken at tomorrow night's meeting...it's on the agenda.

[Villages Kahuna]

All those people shopping at the Colony Cottage Publix.

It's a zoo now. Wait until "the season" starts, with an additional 1200-1400 houses sold. That store is always overcrowded even now. My wife has begun driving from Mallory over to the Publix on 466 or even to the stores down on 441. The law of supply and demand doesn't seem to be working as far as Publix is concerned.

And please don't tell me that The new Sweetbay over near Wildwood will help. I know grocery stores and Sweetbay is no Publix.

[Villages Kahuna]

I think you are raising a completely different issue than what I was talking about. In fact, I don't think the Fruitland Park addition breaks any new ground. It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that Brownwood and its surrounding land is part of the incorporated part of Wildwood. Certainly the Lady Lake part of TV has long established this precedent.

But, as long as you raise this topic, it will be interesting to see how FP votes on this. I don't know the current politics of FP to know whether the current elected officials might be at odds with the very large segments of new voters. If, for example, they are very liberal, then the typically conservative voting block of Villagers may indeed sweep them out of office. However, if they are conservative, they could be giving themselves job security for life by adding another 4,000 people who tend to be conservative.

If I were a parent or current resident in FP, however, I may be very inclined to want 4,000 new taxpayers who do not put any additional demand on the schools but will provide sufficient taxes to upgrade all of the existing school and recreational facilities ... and provide more jobs to boot. I don't know how many people who have this type of thinking there are in FP versus those who don't want any change or outside influence. If the former outnumber the latter, it may be political suicide to NOT let TV in.
The Fruitland Park board and residents appear to have one shot at improving their town, and their choice is right now. Your point on how new development such as has been proposed by The Villages would stabilize FP's finances, improve facilities for current residents, and assure the quality of the development of the "dairy farm parcel" are accurate in my opinion. If FP turns the proposal down, I might go so far as to say that the development of that property into tax revenue producing real estate might take decades. In the meantime, Fruitland Park will remain the hardscrabble, sleepy little village it is now.

To some degree it's up to the residents of Fruitland Park. If they like things as they are now, they can tell their elected board to reject TV proposal. They may think that will assure the long-term continuation of their current lifestyle, but it won't. The value of real estate will always migrate towards it's highest and best use. Always. It might take longer, but that 672 acres abutting TV, located on a major east-west county road is going to be developed. And the lifestyle of the FP residents is going to change. To believe otherwise is to believe one can stop a freight train by standing in the tracks in front of it.

The Mom and Pop general store will probably have to start serving lattés. The class D strip mall with a barbershop and nail place on the main intersection in town will probably be redeveloped. The main city park won't be right on US 441 for much longer. The weekly flea market may not make it much longer. Better commercial uses will be found for the resale shop and massage parlor, both in decent commercial locations. I'll bet the library will be able to buy more books. Maybe the pressure will be off the police to fund the FP government with phony-baloney speed trap tickets. Yeah, things are going to change in Fruitland Park, one way or the other. Maybe it'll take longer, but things WILL change.

I believe their choice is to cut the best deal that they can with TV, and try to enjoy the modernization and financial stabilization of their town. It'll get busier and noisier, and some of the new visitors to FP will be loud, objectionable, big city northerners. That'll be too bad. But one way or the other, that's the way it's going to be.

[Bogie Shooter]

Can we expect a grocery store ,Publix,on every corner?
I drive from near LSL to the Publix on 466 which is not very far and , what, Mallaroy is another mile?
We all know that The Villages would like to rent some property to Publix for another store but, isn't it up to Publix?

[chuckinca]

Kiddo.

Most of the population of Fruitland Park is up by the post office, miles away from the planned extension of The Villages. None of them will be changed a whit. No more than Wildwood or Lady Lake is changed by us being near. We are already a huge presence. Their daily lives will be the same, the current residents of Fruitland Park, but they will have more money in their tax base.


3 of the 5 Lady Lake town council members and the areas they represent are in the Villages - could be considered a slight change.

.

[Mr.Kris]

All those people shopping at the Colony Cottage Publix.

It's a zoo now. Wait until "the season" starts, with an additional 1200-1400 houses sold. That store is always overcrowded even now. My wife has begun driving from Mallory over to the Publix on 466 or even to the stores down on 441. The law of supply and demand doesn't seem to be working as far as Publix is concerned.

And please don't tell me that The new Sweetbay over near Wildwood will help. I know grocery stores and Sweetbay is no Publix.

Do you know if the facilities, gym, etc. are having the same crowding problem? Would it be smart for a prospective new resident to look for a pre-owned home north of 466 and closer to 441? Would there be less crowding where the recreational and commercial facilities have had time to mature?

Thank you, in advance, for your response.

[graciegirl]

Do you know if the facilities, gym, etc. are having the same crowding problem? Would it be smart for a prospective new resident to look for a pre-owned home north of 466 and closer to 441? Would there be less crowding where the recreational and commercial facilities have had time to mature?

Thank you, in advance, for your response.

The answer to that is a resounding YES. People use all facilities much more at first.

We swam daily at first and joined all kinds of things at rec centers. Now we have a circle of friends with whom we do things with and do not use the amenities nearly as much.

We live in a new village on 466 and the art room at Laurel Manor is always less crowded than the one at Colony was, when we used to live in Hadley. The same with the nearby pools, and even the northern golf courses, except for high season.

The commercial businesses will catch up but we are just now coming out of a national economic bad time and it will take a while for new business expansion to be part of planning for some companies. I hope Publix gets the message. I don't want the overflow at our nice Publix on 466.

[graciegirl]

I'm willing to make a wager that Fruitland Park will turn down the Villages offer.


I bet you five bucks on this.

Ready to pay up, fella?

[mulligan]

Someone has not been keeping up with the current news. Good bet, Gracie.

[2BNTV]

My question is, if this deal goes through and I expect it will, "what does that mean it terms of the final build-out date?

Last I heard, it was 2015.

I may be wrong and frequently I am, but wher I came from, the residents didn't have much of a say in what developers wanted to do with properties especially when there was big money invovled. Call me cynical but I think the new development is a plus for FP residents in terms of tax relief.

Besides, my experience tells me this will be reality in the near future.

[Bogie Shooter]

My question is, if this deal goes through and I expect it will, "what does that mean it terms of the final build-out date?

Last I heard, it was 2015.

I may be wrong and frequently I am, but wher I came from, the residents didn't have much of a say in what developers wanted to do with properties especially when there was big money invovled. Call me cynical but I think the new development is a plus for FP residents in terms of tax relief.

Besides, my experience tells me this will be reality in the near future.

A lot of discussion on this topic.........do a search on Fruitland Park.