The Villages: What is the right size?

[NJblue]

There have been a number of threads either directly addressing Villages expansion or indirectly (i.e., lack of tee times, limited access to exercise equipment or lanes in the sports pool, etc.) There have also been a number of different views expressed - anywhere from "build-baby-build" to "The Villages is already too big". This is an anonymous poll to see where the TOTV population falls in this debate.

[Bogie Shooter]

There have been a number of threads either directly addressing Villages expansion or indirectly (i.e., lack of tee times, limited access to exercise equipment or lanes in the sports pool, etc.) There have also been a number of different views expressed - anywhere from "build-baby-build" to "The Villages is already too big". This is an anonymous poll to see where the TOTV population falls in this debate.

Build it and they will come!

[NJblue]

Build it and they will come!

That may be an answer that a developer might give to potential financers of a project, but it is not what is being asked here. This question is directed to the residents and future residents in terms of what they would prefer to see.

[billethkid]

TV is already big at over 100,000 residents or some 50,00 homes, etc.

I think it has already passed the big or not big point some time ago.

To calibrate how much bigger is to big is an exercise in individual outlook.

For me, I say let them keep building as long as appropriate property is available.

I have always said TV concept of distributed services makes a "big" population seem not so big......villages/village pools/village rec centers/regional rec centers/regional pools/villages mail centers/etc along with shopping centers well placed all around......as a result TV at 100,000 does not feel like any other city that size.

btk

[Peachie]

There have been a number of threads either directly addressing Villages expansion or indirectly (i.e., lack of tee times, limited access to exercise equipment or lanes in the sports pool, etc.) There have also been a number of different views expressed - anywhere from "build-baby-build" to "The Villages is already too big". This is an anonymous poll to see where the TOTV population falls in this debate.

I am open to growth. It is crowded in the winter months but I love the pulse of The Villages and the vibrancy of people engaged and enjoying life. I try not to be impatient in lines and to plan around the busiest times. I still wave at people... :a040::a040: We get most of the tee times we try for but we are very flexible with times and courses.

We do run into the occasional "out of sorts" personalities but allow for the pain that may be in their lives of which most of us don't know. It's rewarding to start small conversations with some of them and see their true personalities come out, it is just their current struggles that cloud the real person.

This truly is a unique, wonderful community and I thank God we found it when we did. I am not concerned about more Villagers, we are all on this planet together and I'm sure needed facilities and commercial developments will follow. Thank you, thank you, thank you Morse family.

[billethkid]

I am open to growth. It is crowded in the winter months but I love the pulse of The Villages and the vibrancy of people engaged and enjoying life. I try not to be impatient in lines and to plan around the busiest times. I still wave at people... :a040::a040: We get most of the tee times we try for but we are very flexible with times and courses.

We do run into the occasional "out of sorts" personalities but allow for the pain that may be in their lives of which most of us don't know. It's rewarding to start small conversations with some of them and see their true personalities come out, it is just their current struggles that cloud the real person.

This truly is a unique, wonderful community and I thank God we found it when we did. I am not concerned about more Villagers, we are all on this planet together and I'm sure needed facilities and commercial developments will follow. Thank you, thank you, thank you Morse family.

Nicely and thoughtfully summarizes it!

btk

[Bogie Shooter]

That may be an answer that a developer might give to potential financers of a project, but it is not what is being asked here. This question is directed to the residents and future residents in terms of what they would prefer to see.

As a 11 year resident that is what I would prefer to see.

[bfdretired]

I came from a community that had 900 people when i moved there....after 28 years it had grown to 55K....now its 75K......and i moved out 20 years ago to quiet area in michigan.......is the villages to big?.....because it is age restricted is the overall city more controlled and quiet???
we will visit for two months this year....past visits were for short period....what sould i expect?
thanks

[rubicon]

My desire was to downsize and that included population. I wanted to get away from the congestion, long waits in lines, etc

However, The Villages continues to grow and with it all of the above problems and more crime.

I believe this growth only diminishes the quality of the Lifestyle people sough when deciding to move here.

I have experienced this before and accept it as a reality

[eremite06]

Potable water will be a problem if we grow much larger.

[justjim]

Potable water will be a problem if we grow much larger.

With all due respect, that's what they said about "the valley of the sun"---known as the Greater Phoenix area---30 years ago. Since then it has doubled in size!

Additional growth will bring JOBS and more economic development to the area. As I mentioned previously, not everybody is in favor of economic development. IMHO we passed a quiet, passive lifestyle in TV a few years ago. There are other places for that----but if you want an active Adult Lifestyle with "lots to do" ---you certainly found it here. With all the "green areas" you find in TV, another 50,000 people or so will not make any difference in our lifestyles. Let it happen.

[NJblue]

Interesting responses so far. The curious thing to me is that of the roughly half of the people who want development to grow unabated, no one has expressed any advantages for the growth. It appears the best rationale for the growth is that it is not likely to be done badly. That to me is damning with faint praise. Why would people actually want more growth if their only rationale is that in all liklihood it won't make things much worse? Am I alone in thinking that if there is a chance that things will get worse, don't do it unless there are concrete advantages that can be enumerated?

I agree with the sentiment that the distributed nature of the development does help spread the resources and the demand put upon the resources. However, I find in just the 5 years that I have been here, there is a negative trend in certain things, like traffic, tee times, crowds in town squares, etc.

Perhaps those who want growth either have no experience of living in an area of unrestained growth and hence don't know how that impacts lifestyle. When I first moved to Central New Jersey, it was a sleepy area of small towns and lots of farm land. Over time, the farms were sold off for housing developments and shopping/commercial districts. It became somewhat like the distributed nature of TV. The problem was that with all of the additional people, going anywhere became a stressful event with all of the traffic. Parks and events that used to be easily accessible became very crowded with people with short fuses. You used to be able to go over to the Garden State Arts Center (now PNC Arts Center) on the spur of the moment and get tickets. Now you have to line up at the beginning of the season and try to be lucky to get tickets.

There wasn't any single development that caused this to occur. It was more of death by a thousand cuts. That is what I fear for TV.

Some people may be looking at this from a financial perspective and somehow equate continued growth to ever-rising house values. I personally don't subscribe to this theory. Even if it were to be true for the short term, it won't be true for the long term. Right now, the baby boomers are making up much of the growth. However, this boom won't last forever. Right behind the boomers are the "bust" period where there won't be enough retirees to buy all of the houses that will be built. So, unless you plan on checking out in the next 15 years or so, you or your heirs may find yourself in a real buyer's market with thousands of other TV houses competing against yours.

[Peachie]

Interesting responses so far. The curious thing to me is that of the roughly half of the people who want development to grow unabated, no one has expressed any advantages for the growth. It appears the best rationale for the growth is that it is not likely to be done badly. That to me is damning with faint praise. Why would people actually want more growth if their only rationale is that in all liklihood it won't make things much worse? Am I alone in thinking that if there is a chance that things will get worse, don't do it unless there are concrete advantages that can be enumerated?

I agree with the sentiment that the distributed nature of the development does help spread the resources and the demand put upon the resources. However, I find in just the 5 years that I have been here, there is a negative trend in certain things, like traffic, tee times, crowds in town squares, etc.

Perhaps those who want growth either have no experience of living in an area of unrestained growth and hence don't know how that impacts lifestyle. When I first moved to Central New Jersey, it was a sleepy area of small towns and lots of farm land. Over time, the farms were sold off for housing developments and shopping/commercial districts. It became somewhat like the distributed nature of TV. The problem was that with all of the additional people, going anywhere became a stressful event with all of the traffic. Parks and events that used to be easily accessible became very crowded with people with short fuses. You used to be able to go over to the Garden State Arts Center (now PNC Arts Center) on the spur of the moment and get tickets. Now you have to line up at the beginning of the season and try to be lucky to get tickets.

There wasn't any single development that caused this to occur. It was more of death by a thousand cuts. That is what I fear for TV.

Some people may be looking at this from a financial perspective and somehow equate continued growth to ever-rising house values. I personally don't subscribe to this theory. Even if it were to be true for the short term, it won't be true for the long term. Right now, the baby boomers are making up much of the growth. However, this boom won't last forever. Right behind the boomers are the "bust" period where there won't be enough retirees to buy all of the houses that will be built. So, unless you plan on checking out in the next 15 years or so, you or your heirs may find yourself in a real buyer's market with thousands of other TV houses competing against yours.

NJ, respectfully, because not everyone shares a viewpoint doesn't mean we have no life experiences with urban sprawl and growth. I find it amusing that the bucolic rural areas turned into large development tracts and population growth you witnessed in NJ are exactly where you're living now, The Villages. You had no issue with growth until you got your foot in the door and now you would like it to stop, you're here!

I don't understand why anyone living in The Villages is worrying about a "buyers market". If The Villages is your retirement portfolio, I think investment advice is needed. I think anyone planning on leaving a lot of money to their heirs down the road may not be cognizant of the dire financial straits of this country. Methinks there will be big plans made for the surpluses of the deceased to alleviate this huge shortfall down the road. But only time will tell and I won't waste precious time thinking about that.

The golf courses will receive less and less use as time goes on, poor health, lack of physical capability and death will ensure that. Hang in there, it will get better!

If you want a plus as to why I don't mind if The Villages expand, if it isn't The Villages, it will be some other development. This area is hot for expansion and I know what The Villages is all about.

All this angst over how much growth may occur around The Villages is fruitless. We have no control over that issue and our philosophy is if we don't like The Villages anymore, we'll leave, it's that simple.

[ilovetv]

Having bought and sold our homes in newer developments in the past, I'd say the time to stop building is clearly when the existing resale homes are not selling.

In this sense, it's good the developers have the majority of resale listings and sales, because if they're the ones doing the continued developing and building (which somebody else is sure to do if they did not), they can halt or suspend new construction according to how their resale listings are selling.

I think it's better to have the known recipe that works--TV doing the developing and building--than somebody else coming in for a couple of years, building cheaply built homes with few or no amenities that are affordable....and then leaving. I don't think TV developers are going anywhere because of the gold mine they have in owning all the commercial leased properties and a happy captive audience of consumers who don't want to leave town to shop, dine, exercise, attend classes, dance, play golf, etc. .

[NJblue]

Peachie, thanks for your somewhat condescending response but it doesn't really address my issues:

You're claim that I want to shut the door behind me is not valid on two points. First, when we bought we were told that development would stop after the Brownwood section was completed. Even the developer used the term "Final Phase" to his advantage in marketing it. When you have the word of someone, I don't think you should be embarrassed to call them on it when that trust is broken. Secondly, the question I am asking is what would people prefer in terms of ultimate size. This has nothing to do with your implied selfishness. If you want to go on a quiet romantic walk with your spouse you probably prefer that a crowd of people don't follow you to that place. By your logic, you should prefer that people follow you there since otherwise you would be selfishly "shutting the door" on their opportunity to enjoy that space.

I agree about the economic thing and said so in my post ... perhaps you missed it. I only brought it up since some of those who endorsed future growth did so based on their beliefs of how it would help home values. I think their logic is 100% wrong.

As to the golf courses, ummm guess what? If I have to wait for all the people moving into the new sections to get old and die to get a tee time, I will a) have many years of waiting more and more for a tee time and b) may die myself while waiting. Having hopes for better tee times 10-15 years from now is no reason to want development now.

I'm not so sure about other developments in this area occuring if TV doesn't expand. TV has proven to be unique in its formula. Other developments have been started in the area and are still crawling to be built out - even though their house values are significantly better in these other areas. The reason - they don't have the full package that only TV can offer. Even if they do come, at least their population won't be contending for our amenities. Also, their growth rate will be substantially less than what TV's rate of growth will be.

Your final point is precisely why I don't want to see continued growth. I love TV the way it is and will continue to love it once the Brownwood section is complete. I am fully invested in this place and don't want to ever be forced to move because it has grown beyond its ability to retain its current charm. By some twisted logic, it appears that you prefer growth because you know that if the growth turns out bad you can always move.

[perrjojo]

We have lived most of our life in large metropolitan areas. Dallas- Fort Worth close to 7 million. Atlanta close to 6 million. My husbands family lives in Orange County CA...population over 3 million. When my husbands family first moved to El Torro, CA the population was 200 and it is now over 77,000. Why have these areas grown so much? Because they are desirable areas. The Villages is a desirable area and will continue to grow in some fashion even if the developer stops building. Growth =equals progress. Without growth we become stagnant. When we become stagnant we begin to decay. To sustain future generations we must have growth. Do we want change? Maybe not, but change is inevitable and I vote for the future and therefore I vote for growth.

[Russ_Boston]

We have lived most of our life in large metropolitan areas. Dallas- Fort Worth close to 7 million. Atlanta close to 6 million. My husbands family lives in Orange County CA...population over 3 million. When my husbands family first moved to El Torro, CA the population was 200 and it is now over 77,000. Why have these areas grown so much? Because they are desirable areas. The Villages is a desirable area and will continue to grow in some fashion even if the developer stops building. Growth =equals progress. Without growth we become stagnant. When we become stagnant we begin to decay. To sustain future generations we must have growth. Do we want change? Maybe not, but change is inevitable and I vote for the future and therefore I vote for growth.

Great post - I agree wholeheartedly.

[Peachie]

Peachie, thanks for your somewhat condescending response but it doesn't really address my issues:

You're claim that I want to shut the door behind me is not valid on two points. First, when we bought we were told that development would stop after the Brownwood section was completed. Even the developer used the term "Final Phase" to his advantage in marketing it. When you have the word of someone, I don't think you should be embarrassed to call them on it when that trust is broken. Secondly, the question I am asking is what would people prefer in terms of ultimate size. This has nothing to do with your implied selfishness. If you want to go on a quiet romantic walk with your spouse you probably prefer that a crowd of people don't follow you to that place. By your logic, you should prefer that people follow you there since otherwise you would be selfishly "shutting the door" on their opportunity to enjoy that space.

I agree about the economic thing and said so in my post ... perhaps you missed it. I only brought it up since some of those who endorsed future growth did so based on their beliefs of how it would help home values. I think their logic is 100% wrong.

As to the golf courses, ummm guess what? If I have to wait for all the people moving into the new sections to get old and die to get a tee time, I will a) have many years of waiting more and more for a tee time and b) may die myself while waiting. Having hopes for better tee times 10-15 years from now is no reason to want development now.

I'm not so sure about other developments in this area occuring if TV doesn't expand. TV has proven to be unique in its formula. Other developments have bee started in the area and are still crawling to be built out - even though their house values are significantly better in these other areas. The reason - they don't have the full package that only TV can offer. Even if they do come, at least their population won't be contending for our amenities. Also, their growth rate will be substantially less than what TV's rate of growth will be.

I wasn't condescending, NJ.

Your post indicated you felt anyone who felt differently than you about expansion than you might not have experience with unrestrained growth, now that may be condescending. But to get back to the subject at hand...

The romantic walk analogy is strange for me because if I moved to a promised development of at least 110,000 people, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of privacy in public.

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans. My husband and I had hoped The Villages would acquire that property but we have the confidence in these developers that some don't.

As I said in my previous post, we have the option of leaving here anytime we no longer like it, that leaves us able to enjoy life here and now. Perhaps yours is the twisted logic, why would one insist we constantly worry about problems with The Villages that may never happen?

Who knows, maybe some of the profits from this development will be used to pay the penalties from the IRS suit. There's another positive!

[handyman]

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

[Schaumburger]

I am open to growth. It is crowded in the winter months but I love the pulse of The Villages and the vibrancy of people engaged and enjoying life. I try not to be impatient in lines and to plan around the busiest times. I still wave at people... :a040::a040: We get most of the tee times we try for but we are very flexible with times and courses.

We do run into the occasional "out of sorts" personalities but allow for the pain that may be in their lives of which most of us don't know. It's rewarding to start small conversations with some of them and see their true personalities come out, it is just their current struggles that cloud the real person.

This truly is a unique, wonderful community and I thank God we found it when we did. I am not concerned about more Villagers, we are all on this planet together and I'm sure needed facilities and commercial developments will follow. Thank you, thank you, thank you Morse family.

Peachie, Thank you for the positive post. I would love to be your neighbor! :wave:

[Schaumburger]

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

handyman, I am one of the people who has rented in The Villages several times on a weekly basis during the past couple of years to try out different Villages as I hope to become a full time Villager someday. I would love to rent in The Villages for 2 or 3 months at a time, but I still work full time in the hope that someday I can become a Villager. During my rentals in TV I have never thrown trash on anyone's lawn or pushed ahead of anyone at Publix, Sweetbay, Winn-Dixie or any of the restaurants in The Villages. I will be back in TV at the end of next week for 8 days. I assure you that I will be on my best behavior at all times during this visit.

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience(s) with a renter(s) in The Villages, but not all renters are like that. Thank you for considering this renter and TV wannabee's point of view.

[graciegirl]

I wasn't condescending, NJ.

Your post indicated you felt anyone who felt differently than you about expansion than you might not have experience with unrestrained growth, now that may be condescending. But to get back to the subject at hand...

The romantic walk analogy is strange for me because if I moved to a promised development of at least 110,000 people, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of privacy in public.

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans. My husband and I had hoped The Villages would acquire that property but we have the confidence in these developers that some don't.

As I said in my previous post, we have the option of leaving here anytime we no longer like it, that leaves us able to enjoy life here and now. Perhaps yours is the twisted logic, why would one insist we constantly worry about problems with The Villages that may never happen?

Who knows, maybe some of the profits from this development will be used to pay the penalties from the IRS suit. There's another positive!


Always, Peachie gets to the bottom line and clearly posts it.

I have utmost respect for her evaluations.

I think the OP is surprised by the results of the poll. Obviously most of us think that continued expansion is o.k.

Now either people who disagree with the results above will say that we who post on TOTV are not representative of the population or in someway tell us how they do not agree with the results.

Seniors are damn stubborn.

I try to keep an open mind and sometimes my mind is changed by an excellent argument from someone I have learned to respect on this forum.

I feel Peachie's post most clearly sum up what is happening here.

[asianthree]

Snowbirds,Snowflakes,Frogs all have a vested interest in"The Villages" we have made this our home,there are far to many weekly,monthly rental units, this should have been nipped in the "bud",then it would have been a true "Paradise"I am sorry to say a good part of these people are disgusting slobs who believe that they are paying for the right to toss thier trash on our manicured lawns and allow them to push in front of us at the markets and resturants because they are "On Vacation"

how do you know they are a renter...the couple next door to us rented for seven years same house..took loving care of the home like it was their own...i don't think i would know if the person in line was a renter or a snowflake...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

[NJblue]

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

I think it is this attitude that pervades a lot of this opinion - as long as it's not in my backyard, it's not my problem, so let others worry about it.. The unfortunate thing is that what is happening in the southeastern part of TV has significant impact on those who live there.

I love Graciegirl's general positive attitudes about TV, but must say that I am a bit disappointed in her views on this. In other posts she has talked about the congestion at Publix at Colony and said you have to take turns breathing there and advised people to buy in areas where there is not so much congestion. Yet, now that she no longer lives there she is more than happy to see an additional 4,000 people contend for that store as well as the Colony Cottage rec center.

There is still a lot of undeveloped land up near Southern Trace. I wonder if people who live in that area would be as positive about future development if that becomes the next growth area and thousands of additional people go to that Publix and contend for activities at Laurel Manor. Just because recent growth has been to the south, it doesn't mean that that's the only place that it will go.

[graciegirl]

I think it is this attitude that pervades a lot of this opinion - it's not my problem, so let others worry about it.. The unfortunate thing is that what is happening in the southeastern part of TV has significant impact on those who live there.

I love Graciegirl's general positive attitudes about TV, but must say that I am a bit disappointed in her views on this. In other posts she has talked about the congestion at Publix at Colony and said you have to take turns breathing there and advised people to buy in areas where there is not so much congestion. Yet, now that she no longer lives there she is more than happy to see an additional 4,000 people contend for that store as well as the Colony Cottage rec center.

There is still a lot of undeveloped land up near Southern Trace. I wonder if people who live in that area would be as positive about future development if that becomes the next growth area and thousands of additional people go to that Publix and contend for activities at Laurel Manor. Just because recent growth has been to the south, it doesn't mean that that's the only place that it will go.

I hate when people are disappointed in me. I am a firstborn.

I have this to say about that. If you carefully have read a lot of posts for several years you will see that people never thought that the Lake Sumter Landing area would have business to rent it, and business around it. I think that as the need is perceived by businesses, that they will come and fill the need for grocery stores, doctors, hair salons and restaurants. That is the beauty of capitalism and free enterprise. Unfortunately, or fortunately for them, the landowners around the new builds are holding on for a very high price for their property and the business may be built down the road and not golf cart accessible, but sooner or later, I think it will fill in, later than some want but sooner than some think.

It will all work out, I think.

It will be hell on wheels during the months of January, February and March when our population swells. But the wise will stay a bit out of harms way, cook at home more, golf at places they haven't gone before, let the seat savers have at it and work around it.

And the grasshoppers need to be patient. It will come. It will come.

[NJblue]

I believe the "Final Phase" used in marketing was the developers truth at the time. I do think the Morse's had thought The Villages would be contained within those borders.

However, life is fluid and when that beautiful piece of land on 466A became available, the Morse's changed their plans.

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.

[graciegirl]

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.
Who and how were you lied to? Who switched things up on you?

A good business, a successful business is flexible. I have worked in business. A lot of us have. We have had campaigns extended and the rules changed as something hit big that we were selling.

As I have said before, I am sometimes quite surprised by people who really don't understand how most business works. They may have taught, worked for the government, or some other institution, and be very, very smart people,.......

Business is fluid. The economy appears to be on the upswing, where a couple of years ago when plans were made it was on the downturn.

I do not think anyone ever spoke "ex cathedra" about when the building would stop. Some sales reps may have run their mouths, but I don't think the decision makers ever said it. Final Phase, a selling tactic, could go on for years. Just like life does.

One of the things we residents like to talk about is how long is the building going to go on. I have heard contractors opine, and many villagers, but where was it officially written, the build out year or goal, that you should feel so betrayed?

Think about the positives of continued growth. The teams of contractors still employed, taking care of their families and paying taxes, their children attending the charter schools.

Workers not on the welfare rolls.

[justjim]

As long as they keep building sufficient golf courses, amenities, retail establishments and infrastructure, what's the difference?
The thing about the Villages is that each little area is separate in alot of of ways from the rest of the Villages. I live in Silver Lake and what happens down near Brownwood doesn't affect me. Heck, what happens south of 466 rarely affects me. I think that's the beauty of The Villages. It is a bunch of smaller villages all by a common theme but not really affecting each other very much.

:thumbup: Winston: Your post makes a lot of sense to me. Do you suppose thats why this place is called The Villages?

[Peachie]

Truth at the time?! Really? You are content making a life decision based on someone telling you something with his fingers crossed behind his back?

Based on your misreading of my previous analogy, either you don't read analogies well or I don't create them well, but let me try again. Continuing the romantic theme ... Suppose you called a restaurant for a reservation at a corner table with a great view and were assured by the manager that you could have it. However, when you arrived, you found that table occupied. If the manager said, "I told you could have it based on my understanding at the time that it would be available, hence it was the truth at the time. Since then someone came and offered me $25 to have that table." Would you just shrug and say, "Well at least it was the truth at the time" ?

Obviously, where the analogy falls short is that a table in a restaurant is not a life decision. But, it does illustrate the value of one's commitment to you.
I understood your analogy perfectly but I think it would be a more accurate analogy if you stated something like... my wife and I went to the public beach on the hottest day of the year and it was packed. The concession stands were humming with business and we were having a great time and then more people arrived and it ruined everything because my wife and I hate crowds.

I hope this doesn't worry you to much, NJ, and that you have a really good day. I'm going to try to do the same because when it comes down to it...the only moments we have in life are the ones we are currently in. Adieu.

[NJblue]

I hate when people are disappointed in me. I am a firstborn.

I have this to say about that. If you carefully have read a lot of posts for several years you will see that people never thought that the Lake Sumter Landing area would have business to rent it, and business around it. I think that as the need is perceived by businesses, that they will come and fill the need for grocery stores, doctors, hair salons and restaurants. That is the beauty of capitalism and free enterprise. Unfortunately, or fortunately for them, the landowners around the new builds are holding on for a very high price for their property and the business may be built down the road and not golf cart accessible, but sooner or later, I think it will fill in, later than some want but sooner than some think.

It will all work out, I think.

It will be hell on wheels during the months of January, February and March when our population swells. But the wise will stay a bit out of harms way, cook at home more, golf at places they haven't gone before, let the seat savers have at it and work around it.

And the grasshoppers need to be patient. It will come. It will come.

I'm on a roll with analogies. Here's one that seems to represent this attitude.

You go to your doctor for a check-up and he says that everything is fine. However, there is a surgery that he has performed numerous times without failure. Intrigued, you ask him what the negatives are. He says there are some pains for a few years, but eventually it all works out. Still intrigued, you ask about the benefits. He says there really aren't any, but don't worry I know what I'm doing, having done it many times and things "should" all work out for you.

Given lack of benefits but years of pain, how many would opt for this surgery? Based on this poll, apparently almost half the people on TOTV would choose it.

[graciegirl]

I'm on a roll with analogies. Here's one that seems to represent this attitude.

You go to your doctor for a check-up and he says that everything is fine. However, there is a surgery that he has performed numerous times without failure. Intrigued, you ask him what the negatives are. He says there are some pains for a few years, but eventually it all works out. Still intrigued, you ask about the benefits. He says there really aren't any, but don't worry I know what I'm doing, having done it many times and things "should" all work out for you.

Given lack of benefits but years of pain, how many would opt for this surgery? Based on this poll, apparently almost half the people on TOTV would choose it.


You have made up your mind. I hope you are pleasantly surprised.

Like Peach says. TODAY is the day to live. TODAY.

Nuff said.

by me.

[NJblue]

I understood your analogy perfectly but I think it would be a more accurate analogy if you stated something like... my wife and I went to the public beach on the hottest day of the year and it was packed. The concession stands were humming with business and we were having a great time and then more people arrived and it ruined everything because my wife and I hate crowds.

I hope this doesn't worry you to much, NJ, and that you have a really good day. I'm going to try to do the same because when it comes down to it...the only moments we have in life are the ones we are currently in. Adieu.

Sorry, but this is not an accurate analogy at all. This is more appropriate:
You and your spouse are looking for a beach house to spend your retirement years. There is a private development that is extremely nice and extremely popular but the owner tells you that he will stop development when it gets to be a certain size. So, you buy into it with this understanding. However, after a few years, the developer rethinks his commitments and decides that he may want to build more. You're way of thinking is that, "I hope he does and if he ends up ruining our dream, we can always move."

[NJblue]

Who and how were you lied to? Who switched things up on you?

A good business, a successful business is flexible. I have worked in business. A lot of us have. We have had campaigns extended and the rules changed as something hit big that we were selling.

As I have said before, I am sometimes quite surprised by people who really don't understand how most business works. They may have taught, worked for the government, or some other institution, and be very, very smart people,.......

Business is fluid. The economy appears to be on the upswing, where a couple of years ago when plans were made it was on the downturn.

I do not think anyone ever spoke "ex cathedra" about when the building would stop. Some sales reps may have run their mouths, but I don't think the decision makers ever said it. Final Phase, a selling tactic, could go on for years. Just like life does.

One of the things we residents like to talk about is how long is the building going to go on. I have heard contractors opine, and many villagers, but where was it officially written, the build out year or goal, that you should feel so betrayed?

Think about the positives of continued growth. The teams of contractors still employed, taking care of their families and paying taxes, their children attending the charter schools.

Workers not on the welfare rolls.

Is this official video by senior executives not indicative of what the official plan was:

The Villages Past, Present, and Future (http://www.thevillagesfloridabook.com/past-present-and-future/)

Count how many times the term "final" was used.

You may be surprised how many people "don't understand" how business works. I am surprised how many people are willing to overlook it when a business doesn't live up to its commitment. A quality business, once it commits to a customer, will live up to that commitment - even if it loses money to do so.