broken window from a golf ball

[red tail]

well I always wondered if the insurance would cover a golf ball through my window. I live on hacienda golf course and last week a guy hit a ball that went through my window and into another room breaking the window and destroyed the blind. my wife caught the guy as he was driving away and asked him if he was going to make it right. he said no but she could contact his insurance agent at state farm. she did and today they called and said absolutely no! I chose to live on a golf course so I assume the responsibility. so now I know!!!
im a golfer so I sorta agree with it but I still don't like it. :cus:

[Barefoot]

well I always wondered if the insurance would cover a golf ball through my window. I live on hacienda golf course and last week a guy hit a ball that went through my window and into another room breaking the window and destroyed the blind. my wife caught the guy as he was driving away and asked him if he was going to make it right. he said no but she could contact his insurance agent at state farm. she did and today they called and said absolutely no! I chose to live on a golf course so I assume the responsibility. so now I know!!! I'm a golfer so I sorta agree with it but I still don't like it. :cus:

Whether you live on a golf course or not, it seems to me that breaking a window in a private residence is vandalism.

[redwitch]

Sadly, barefoot, it is an assumed risk -- you choose to live where balls have a distinct possibility of hitting your window, you assume the risk of it happening. Now, if the golfer threw the golf ball or aimed at the house and window, that would be vandalism. To me, someone with ethics would not hesitate to at least offer to pay for half the cost of breaking the window, but even that seems to be getting rarer and rarer.

[buggyone]

It does seem that the general viewpoint of a lot of golfers is that it is not their responsibility to pay for a broken window from their errant shot.

Legality vs ethics?

I have played with guys here in The Villages who have hit houses and they drive away as fast as possible. Definitely the wrong thing to do ethically.

I was playing one day and the guy in the cart with me hit a house with his ball. He told me to drive to the other side of the course quickly. Instead, I drove up to that house to see if a window had been hit. This guy was yelling and cursing at me the whole time. Luckily for him, no damage had been done. Naturally, we do not associate anymore.

How did we raise our kids? If they broke a window, they pay for it. Let's us show the same ethics we tried to teach our kids.

[George Bieniaszek]

I was watching "Judge Judy" on TV a while ago and she heard a similar case where a property owner was suing a golfer for damage done to a window on his house. Judge Judy also concluded that a home owner on a golf course assumes the risk and liabilities of errant golf balls and the damage they do to their property. If the golfer intentionally teed up and shot directly at the house, then it is an act of vandalism.

[TheVillageChicken]

What kind of golfer wouldn't want to do the right thing in that scenario? Under the rules of golf, Rule 27-1b, out of bounds incurs a stroke and distance penalty. What a bum.

[billethkid]

as a past golf course resident, many times....there is no doubt about the assumption of responsibility.

Those who hit the house or break a window are in several categories. They don't know they hit the house/window. They know it hit the house and assume no windows broken no harm done. There are some who if they knew they broke a window they would stop. Then there are those who would play through/by no matter what. And so on.

Most for what ever the reason/excuse play therough/by/etc.

I suppose there are the real cowards who run?????

I always had tempered glass windows on the sun rooms and any other windows in the possible line of flight.

Have been eating breakfast many times on the porch when a ball makes a direct hit on the glass. Sounds like a gun shot. Fortunately with the tempered glass....never had a broken window.

btk

[charlie49]

I live on a golf course and agree it is not the golfer's responsibility. If the golfer chooses to to compensate the home owner that is fine, but they are not obligated to do so. Even professionals hit errant shots at times, it is part of the game. People living on golf courses should expect their house may be hit at times and that is part of the price they pay for enjoying the benefits of living on a course.

Part of the problem here is how close the homes are built to the golf course. Play Ocala Country Club and notice how far back the golf course homes are from the fairways. Ocala National is the same, it is virtually impossible to hit a home on that course.

Charlie

[Golfingnut]

I live on a golf course and agree it is not the golfer's responsibility. If the golfer chooses to to compensate the home owner that is fine, but they are not obligated to do so. Even professionals hit errant shots at times, it is part of the game. People living on golf courses should expect their house may be hit at times and that is part of the price they pay for enjoying the benefits of living on a course.

Part of the problem here is how close the homes are built to the golf course. Play Ocala Country Club and notice how far back the golf course homes are from the fairways. Ocala National is the same, it is virtually impossible to hit a home on that course.

Charlie

Ditto.

[buggyone]

Ditto.

Where is the high standard of Iowa ethics?

[blueeagle65]

You live on or near a golf course with expectations of being hit by golf balls with no liability assignable to the golfer. It kind of sucks that you also paid a premium for this piece of property doesn't it?

[Topspinmo]

And I thought Golf was played by 'Gentleman" and Ladies? I guess some of the same types that damage cars in parking lots and run off play golf too :undecided:

[Kelsie52]

You live on or near a golf course with expectations of being hit by golf balls with no liability assignable to the golfer. It kind of sucks that you also paid a premium for this piece of property doesn't it?

Actually not !!

I paid the premium so I didnt have to go out on my Lanai in the morning to have my coffee and see some other fat guy doing the same thing 10 feet AWAY ---LOL:boxing2:

[murray607]

Actually not !!

I paid the premium so I didnt have to go out on my Lanai in the morning to have my coffee and see some other fat guy doing the same thing 10 feet AWAY ---LOL:boxing2:

What about the fat-guys on the golf carts seeing you drinking your coffee on your lanai? :a040:

[rubicon]

well I always wondered if the insurance would cover a golf ball through my window. I live on hacienda golf course and last week a guy hit a ball that went through my window and into another room breaking the window and destroyed the blind. my wife caught the guy as he was driving away and asked him if he was going to make it right. he said no but she could contact his insurance agent at state farm. she did and today they called and said absolutely no! I chose to live on a golf course so I assume the responsibility. so now I know!!!
im a golfer so I sorta agree with it but I still don't like it. :cus:

Hi Red Tail :

Sorry for your dilemma.

The liability issue can be argued until the cows come home. However many Golf Clubs establish rules where homes are built to eliminate such arguments. Perhaps The Villages developed some applications?

You may also want to contact State Farm and ask if they have coverage for property damage irrespective of liability. Many homeowner policies have what is referred to as Property Damage To Others. Its designed to keep neighbors from disputing. suppose your neighbor is mowing his lawn and hits a rock and the rock breaks your window. Rather than dispute liability they apply a good will approach. The limits on this coverage are $500 per occurrence. I can't believe accompany as large as State Farm does not have this coverage.

And people wonder why some homeowners on a course refuse to let golfers retrieve their ball

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Where is the high standard of Iowa ethics?

This is not an ethics question. You assume the risk when you buy on a golf course and you get the benefit of living on a golf course. If a business owner gets the benefits of owning a business is it an ethics question if an employee breaks a piece of equipment and doesn't pay for it? of course not the business owner accepts the risk when they start the business in order to reap any potential reward.

[rubicon]

This is not an ethics question. You assume the risk when you buy on a golf course and you get the benefit of living on a golf course. If a business owner gets the benefits of owning a business is it an ethics question if an employee breaks a piece of equipment and doesn't pay for it? of course not the business owner accepts the risk when they start the business in order to reap any potential reward.

Hi Cantwaitoarrive: This is an excellent time to insert the adage

"It depends on whose ox is being gored."

Beside which your comparison is incongruent. For one thing there is no legal relationship between a golfer and the homeowner who incurs damage.

As to ethics. Many of us know many golfers who often hit errant balls. They well know they are likely to hook or slice.

Ethics is involved in most of our decisions.

Finally there actually are some residents here who believe that people who buy on a golf course deserve what they get. I find this attitude mean spirited.

Personal Best Regards:

[Barefoot]

..... there actually are some residents here who believe that people who buy on a golf course deserve what they get. I find this attitude mean spirited.

I'm very surprised that some people feel this way. I think most of us were taught by our parents that we if we break or damage something, even accidentally, it's our responsibility to fix it or replace it.

[under55]

So what if you hit a person walking down the multimodal path and send them to the hospital. You pay?
What if you hit a car out on 466A? You pay?
Do those people assume a risk when they walk or drive by a golf course?

[Barefoot]

So what if you hit a person walking down the multimodal path and send them to the hospital. You pay? What if you hit a car out on 466A? You pay?

I'm pretty sure that any ethical person wouldn't drive quickly away and pretend it didn't happen!

[ajbrown]

So what if you hit a person walking down the multimodal path and send them to the hospital. You pay?
What if you hit a car out on 466A? You pay?
Do those people assume a risk when they walk or drive by a golf course?

<hearsay>

Let me say, I have no first hand knowledge, I share the story as it comes to me from a good friend who has played golf with the person telling the story. Maybe someone knows the person? I offer nothing else at this time....

My friend told me of a guy that told him <I know how that sounds :)>, he was being sued because his tee shot on number nine at Havana, Kenya hit a woman on a bicycle on the multi-modal. When he told me I said NO WAY, cannot be.....

Some time later (year+) he said you remember I told you about the guy being sued? I said yeah. My friend said, I saw him again and the insurance company had settled with the woman for quite a hefty sum. I still told him he was nuts but we are still good friends :laugh:

The person sued also adds that the day he hit her, he felt awful and went over the fence and asked if she was OK. She said she was fine, they laughed, they talked for a bit and then she rode off very friendly.... hmmmmmmm.

</hearsay>

[gustavo]

So what if you hit a person walking down the multimodal path and send them to the hospital. You pay?
What if you hit a car out on 466A? You pay?
Do those people assume a risk when they walk or drive by a golf course?

No, the insurance co pays, that's why you buy it.

[NECHFalcon68]

Actually not !!

I paid the premium so I didnt have to go out on my Lanai in the morning to have my coffee and see some other fat guy doing the same thing 10 feet AWAY ---LOL:boxing2:

And also to learn new words....

[Russ_Boston]

And I thought Golf was played by 'Gentleman" and Ladies? I guess some of the same types that damage cars in parking lots and run off play golf too :undecided:

Different - if you damage a car in the parking lot you ARE responsible. We've already established that on a golf course you are not.

I've used this argument many times but here it goes again. Let's say that you have tons of ethics and you hit a ball into a window. You approach the owner and say "I know I'm not obligated but my upbringing was so righteous that I need to offer to pay for the damages". The owner says "You are a fine upstanding man and I appreciate the offer. I will take you up on it." "No problem" you say. Then the owner says "that will be $2000". You say "WHAT?". The owner says "Well it's $150 for the window but the ball also knocked down and broke and antique vase by the window".

Now you, being so righteous with such great ethics and upbringing say ?????.

This scenario is not outrageous. The point is that you should pay for things that you are responsible for. Anything beyond that and you now have to put a price on how much your ethics mean to you. What instead of 2K it was 20K or.... Where is your limit?

[Russ_Boston]

<hearsay>

Let me say, I have no first hand knowledge, I share the story as it comes to me from a good friend who has played golf with the person telling the story. Maybe someone knows the person? I offer nothing else at this time....

My friend told me of a guy that told him <I know how that sounds :)>, he was being sued because his tee shot on number nine at Havana, Kenya hit a woman on a bicycle on the multi-modal. When he told me I said NO WAY, cannot be.....

Some time later (year+) he said you remember I told you about the guy being sued? I said yeah. My friend said, I saw him again and the insurance company had settled with the woman for quite a hefty sum. I still told him he was nuts but we are still good friends :laugh:

The person sued also adds that the day he hit her, he felt awful and went over the fence and asked if she was OK. She said she was fine, they laughed, they talked for a bit and then she rode off very friendly.... hmmmmmmm.

</hearsay>

What insurance paid? The golfer's homeowner's insurance? The golfer's personal liability? Just curious. I didn't realize I had insurance for when I hit a golf ball.

[Russ_Boston]

No, the insurance co pays, that's why you buy it.

Whose insurance co? The walker or the golfer? Homeowner's? Auto? Just curious.

[red tail]

Whose insurance co? The walker or the golfer? Homeowner's? Auto? Just curious.

read my original post. state farm refused to pay anything.

[buggyone]

Whose insurance co? The walker or the golfer? Homeowner's? Auto? Just curious.

I would guess your homeowner policy would pay as well as your umbrella policy.
That is a guess. Contact the insurance company. However, this thread is about windows.

What would you teach your kids if they broke a window? Run?

[red tail]

the claim probably wouldn't be more than $150. so whomever pays he or me our deductible would kick in and the insurance co would bow out!

[DougB]

Is there a statute of limitations on breaking a window? Just wondering, I busted one when I was ten and ran home without getting caught. Now y'all got me feeling all bad. Wonder if that little old lady still lives there.

[Russ_Boston]

I would guess your homeowner policy would pay as well as your umbrella policy.
That is a guess. Contact the insurance company. However, this thread is about windows.

What would you teach your kids if they broke a window? Run?

No - but what if is my question> What if it led to MORE than a window. WHAT IF - I'd like an answer - what would you do? Would your ethics fly out the window?

What if, like me, the homeowner had a $1000 deductible and the bill came to over 1K. What would you do? Hmmm. Don't seem to get a straight answer from anyone as to what they would do. We've had this thread 20 times in the past 5 years and no one answers my question. Would you still pay the homeowner even if the bill came to a much higher than expected amount? Yes? No? If not why not?

And please don't answer with something like "Don't you have any ethics Russ?". I want to know what you would do - not what you expect me to do.

Thanks in advance for anyone honest enough to try an answer the real question. Anybody can say they'd pay for a cheap window.

[murray607]

Is there a statute of limitations on breaking a window? Just wondering, I busted one when I was ten and ran home without getting caught. Now y'all got me feeling all bad. Wonder if that little old lady still lives there.

No statute of limitations......you will take this to the grave, unless you fess up and pay her.

Let me see, a new window was how much back when you were 10?..........

$10.00 should cover it!

[Pepperhead]

No - but what if is my question> What if it led to MORE than a window. WHAT IF - I'd like an answer - what would you do? Would your ethics fly out the window?

What if, like me, the homeowner had a $1000 deductible and the bill came to over 1K. What would you do? Hmmm. Don't seem to get a straight answer from anyone as to what they would do. We've had this thread 20 times in the past 5 years and no one answers my question. Would you still pay the homeowner even if the bill came to a much higher than expected amount? Yes? No? If not why not?

And please don't answer with something like "Don't you have any ethics Russ?". I want to know what you would do - not what you expect me to do.

Thanks in advance for anyone honest enough to try an answer the real question.

If it were I who hit the golf ball, I would initially feel morally responsible to pay for the damages. If however, the home owner acted like a jackass about it, I would exercise my legal right to blow it off. BTW, the home would have to be on the left side for me to hit it. I haven't sliced a ball in years, but a sneaky pull hook does slip its way into my game occasionally.

[Russ_Boston]

If it were I who hit the golf ball, I would initially feel morally responsible to pay for the damages. If however, the home owner acted like a jackass about it, I would exercise my legal right to blow it off. BTW, the home would have to be on the left side for me to hit it. I haven't sliced a ball in years, but a sneaky pull hook does slip its way into my game occasionally.


Honest answer but - What if the homeowner was nice but said the bill was 1k from some hidden damage? I think that's the real ethics question. Maybe say I'll pay for the window but nothing else? Then why even pay for the window? The homeowner still has unpaid for damage.

I find it very interesting to challenge the ethics of any situation.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Hi Cantwaitoarrive: This is an excellent time to insert the adage

"It depends on whose ox is being gored."

Beside which your comparison is incongruent. For one thing there is no legal relationship between a golfer and the homeowner who incurs damage.

As to ethics. Many of us know many golfers who often hit errant balls. They well know they are likely to hook or slice.

Ethics is involved in most of our decisions.

Finally there actually are some residents here who believe that people who buy on a golf course deserve what they get. I find this attitude mean spirited.

Personal Best Regards:

Morals and ethics are two different thing and there is a "legal" relationship between a golfer and a "homeowner " that buys on a golf course. Ask any laywer

[DeanFL]

I seem to recall that this was a topic on other Threads during the year. Personally I would believe (hope) that there is a written TV policy on this. Kind of simple - either:

a) the TV Homeowner must accept responsibility for unintentional damage to their private property caused by a TV-approved sporting activity on Community property.

or

b) the person committing unintentional damage to private property of a Homeowner or TV property is responsible for payment of repairs.

We will be moving into Gilchrist next Feb - not directly next to the course, but a healthy ball-bounce from a green...
Hasn't this topic been put to rest (hope...) with TV Directive/Regulation?

[DonH57]

Honest answer but - What if the homeowner was nice but said the bill was 1k from some hidden damage? I think that's the real ethics question. Maybe say I'll pay for the window but nothing else? Then why even pay for the window? The homeowner still has unpaid for damage.

I find it very interesting to challenge the ethics of any situation.

I find it interesting too because what if the homeowner wasn't so ethical about the alledged hidden damages. How well do insurance adjusters investigate a case like this.

[charlie49]

A consideration in buying our house on a golf course was how often we would be hit by golf balls, not if it would happen. We are on an executive course half way down on the left, non-slice for most, side of the fairway. We would not have bought the property if it had been on the right side of the fairway. We also would have passed on property next to a tee box because of noise.

My guess is all people who purchased golf course frontage property also assumed their property may be hit by golf balls at times. We have not had any damage in nine years, but we have found a few balls in the yard. We really enjoy seeing the golfers and having a vista of the course instead of 'kissing lanais.'

[redwitch]

Russ, I don't play golf but I was taught that if something was damaged by your actions, you take responsibility, regardless whether the damage is $0.05 or $5,000. I may not be able to pay the owner the full bill at once but it would get paid.

I recently dinged a woman's car when the car door blew out of my hand. I could have easily walked away and she would have never known. I couldn't do that. The damage for this minor ding was $500 (a very large amount for my budget). It got paid.

[Russ_Boston]

Russ, I don't play golf but I was taught that if something was damaged by your actions, you take responsibility, regardless whether the damage is $0.05 or $5,000. I may not be able to pay the owner the full bill at once but it would get paid.

I recently dinged a woman's car when the car door blew out of my hand. I could have easily walked away and she would have never known. I couldn't do that. The damage for this minor ding was $500 (a very large amount for my budget). It got paid.

I appreciate the answer Red. But you were responsible legally for the unfortunate car damage.

But there are lots of times in life that your actions cause damage but that doesn't mean you always pay for the damages. The other example I use when this thread comes up repeatedly is this:

You are driving on a highway going the speed limit - you reach up to adjust your sunglasses and they fall into your lap - by instinct you hit your brake way too hard causing the guy behind you to slam his car into yours even though he was a reasonable and legal distance behind you - Yes your actions precipitated the accident but you're not responsible legally since you didn't hit the brake intentionally - I don't think you'd pay under this circumstance would you? Why would you pay for the golf ball damage which you are not legally bound to do?

[DonH57]

I have only played two courses here in TV and the layout of play for all holes pointed away from homes. It looks like a lot of courses here are well away from homes but I haven't been on all them.

[TrudyM]

<hearsay>

Let me say, I have no first hand knowledge, I share the story as it comes to me from a good friend who has played golf with the person telling the story. Maybe someone knows the person? I offer nothing else at this time....

My friend told me of a guy that told him <I know how that sounds :)>, he was being sued because his tee shot on number nine at Havana, Kenya hit a woman on a bicycle on the multi-modal. When he told me I said NO WAY, cannot be.....

Some time later (year+) he said you remember I told you about the guy being sued? I said yeah. My friend said, I saw him again and the insurance company had settled with the woman for quite a hefty sum. I still told him he was nuts but we are still good friends :laugh:

The person sued also adds that the day he hit her, he felt awful and went over the fence and asked if she was OK. She said she was fine, they laughed, they talked for a bit and then she rode off very friendly.... hmmmmmmm.

</hearsay>
Just because an insurance company pays doesn't mean you were at fault.

A guy jumped infront of my car as I was making a slow left turn during a heavy rain storm and claimed I hit him. No rips to his pants or any sign of damage other than wet clothes. He was lying in the street in a way that did not support the claim and the police didn't believe him when called, as there was no scratch on my car or him. However Allstate paid him $5000 without even contacting me to get the facts and then doubled my rates. It was out and out fraud but no one gave a flying fart in space, it was easier to pay than to go to court, never mind that it just encourages people to sue for everything.

[gustavo]

Honest answer but - What if the homeowner was nice but said the bill was 1k from some hidden damage? I think that's the real ethics question. Maybe say I'll pay for the window but nothing else? Then why even pay for the window? The homeowner still has unpaid for damage.

I find it very interesting to challenge the ethics of any situation.

I consider myself ethical. If I hit a house and caused damage, regardless of price, I would assume the homeowner would take care of it as he "assumed responsibility" when he bought it. If he asked me to pay for it I would refer him to my insurance co, for him and/or his insurance co to hash out, as I head for the next hole.

[DonH57]

Just because an insurance company pays doesn't mean you were at fault.

A guy jumped infront of my car as I was making a slow left turn during a heavy rain storm and claimed I hit him. No rips to his pants or any sign of damage other than wet clothes. He was lying in the street in a way that did not support the claim and the police didn't believe him when called, as there was no scratch on my car or him. However Allstate paid him $5000 without even contacting me to get the facts and then doubled my rates. It was out and out fraud but no one gave a flying fart in space, it was easier to pay than to go to court, never mind that it just encourages people to sue for everything.

Unfortunately I wouldn't doubt your story given the direction our society seems to be heading. Fraud is a big cash cow now and we all have to pay for it.

[DougB]

I appreciate the answer Red. But you were responsible legally for the unfortunate car damage.

But there are lots of times in life that your actions cause damage but that doesn't mean you always pay for the damages. The other example I use when this thread comes up repeatedly is this:

You are driving on a highway going the speed limit - you reach up to adjust your sunglasses and they fall into your lap - by instinct you hit your brake way too hard causing the guy behind you to slam his car into yours even though he was a reasonable and legal distance behind you - Yes your actions precipitated the accident but you're not responsible legally since you didn't hit the brake intentionally - I don't think you'd pay under this circumstance would you? Why would you pay for the golf ball damage which you are not legally bound to do?

I get where you're going with this Russ, but I believe that is a bad example.
If someone slams into the back of you car for whatever reason you brake, intentionally or unintentionally, he/she is not following a reasonable and legal distance and is responsible.

[redwitch]

Russ, I may have had a legal responsibility to pay for the damage, but I didn't have to. I could have simply driven away and no one would have been the wiser but me. I could no more walk away from that ding than I could walk away from an errant ball. Just isn't in me.

AJ already answered your question on the braking example. Just because you didn't mean to hit the brake is entirely irrelevant. Reality is the driver behind you was at fault for following too close. A better example might be you got a foot cramp and accelerated jumping a curb and causing minor damage to a bicycle. You didn't mean to hit the bike that was chained to the pole (which, for whatever reason, was illegal) but you did. It wasn't your fault, it was an out and out accident. Even so, you're responsible in my mind and should pay for the damages.

If your golf ball hits a window, breaks a Ming vase (worth a bit more than $2K), you man up and take responsibility regardless of the fact that the homeowner assumed the risk by buying and building where s/he did. To deliberately run away is, to me, at best craven, at worst obscene (I'd say criminal but I can't because it isn't illegal and the golfer has no legal obligation, just a moral one).

[pqrstar]

. . . However many Golf Clubs establish rules where homes are built to eliminate such arguments. Perhaps The Villages developed some applications?. . .And people wonder why some homeowners on a course refuse to let golfers retrieve their ball

Here is the Villages statement "Common Golf Course Etiquette" regarding your questions.

Golf The Villages (http://golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/etiquette.asp)

It states ..."Please never play a ball from the yard of a resident. It is also appropriate to report any damage of private property to the homeowner. We ask that you never retrieve your ball from a resident�s property."

[Warren Kiefer]

well I always wondered if the insurance would cover a golf ball through my window. I live on hacienda golf course and last week a guy hit a ball that went through my window and into another room breaking the window and destroyed the blind. my wife caught the guy as he was driving away and asked him if he was going to make it right. he said no but she could contact his insurance agent at state farm. she did and today they called and said absolutely no! I chose to live on a golf course so I assume the responsibility. so now I know!!!
im a golfer so I sorta agree with it but I still don't like it. :cus:

This is strange, several years ago I broke someone's window. My agency was also State Farm. They paid for the window replacement.

[Warren Kiefer]

Whether you live on a golf course or not, it seems to me that breaking a window in a private residence is vandalism.

I don't understand your reasoning at all. So by your standards, if a golfer accidently breaks a window, he should be arrested for vandalism ???

[DonH57]

I would hope no golfer would deliberately tee off directly toward property to damage it. Choosing to live near a golf course is no different than choosing to build next to a train track and then complain about the noise. Just seems like a common sense thing to me. Our whole little world is not perfect even some believe it should be.

[justjim]

Russ, I don't play golf but I was taught that if something was damaged by your actions, you take responsibility, regardless whether the damage is $0.05 or $5,000. I may not be able to pay the owner the full bill at once but it would get paid.

I recently dinged a woman's car when the car door blew out of my hand. I could have easily walked away and she would have never known. I couldn't do that. The damage for this minor ding was $500 (a very large amount for my budget). It got paid.

You are a very ethical person Redwitch. Many would have said "it was the wind's fault". I would hope that I would do the same thing---I believe that I would. :beer3:

[justjim]

are your People crazy and for Judge Judy she is a joke on TV.
Damaging property period, whether accidental or not has to be paid by the person damaging the property.
When you live on a golf course it doesn't mean you assume the risk no more Than Morse assumes the risk of paying for the damage homes due to the home being built to close to the golf course.
Does that mean if a golfer hits a car in the street with a bad shot, it is the car owner going to assumes the risk if he is driving on the street near a Golf course.
People wake up, the reason why golfers flee away is because they know there responsible!
You folks need to wake up, and detain the golfer until the Police show up, then you would see a different outlook on how they tee off.
It seems the mentality of the people fleeing, is that since they can,t afford to live on a golf course, they are either jealous or just idiots and not ethical or honest people in general. Beware to some one hitting my window and fleeing away!

Thanks for your post. I read a lengthy article (wish I kept it) a few years ago on who was responsible for an errant golf ball. Bottom line was the golfer is legally responsible----according to this article. I read another article where the article said that the golfer was not legally responsible unless they were negligent. Either way , it is not economically feasible to go to court over a broken window.

But suppose someone was sitting near the window and is hurt? Different story.

At any rate---driving away (or running away) from responsibility is a sign of the times. I suppose we all have different values---i personally feel responsible if my errant golf ball hits and damages someone's house. My bottom line when I bought a golf course lot was to buy a lot where it was "almost" impossible that my home would be hit by a golf ball. :gc: Fore!

[CFrance]

No - but what if is my question> What if it led to MORE than a window. WHAT IF - I'd like an answer - what would you do? Would your ethics fly out the window?

What if, like me, the homeowner had a $1000 deductible and the bill came to over 1K. What would you do? Hmmm. Don't seem to get a straight answer from anyone as to what they would do. We've had this thread 20 times in the past 5 years and no one answers my question. Would you still pay the homeowner even if the bill came to a much higher than expected amount? Yes? No? If not why not?

And please don't answer with something like "Don't you have any ethics Russ?". I want to know what you would do - not what you expect me to do.

Thanks in advance for anyone honest enough to try an answer the real question. Anybody can say they'd pay for a cheap window.

This is why I don't play golf. My aim's bad enough with a pickleball, but they're plastic and have holes in them.

My answer, Russ, is that I would pay for the window only, because a) you assume some risk living on a golf course, and so therefore b) why the blazes put a priceless object in harm's way. There has to be some cost associated with the owner's stupidity in your example. Just my opinion.

[Barefoot]

. So by your standards, if a golfer accidently breaks a window, he should be arrested for vandalism ???

No, he shouldn't be arrested for vandalism. He should pay for the broken window!!! Just like Redwich paid for damage in a parking lot when a car door accidentally blew out of her hand.

[ajbrown]

<hearsay>

Let me be clear, I still have no first hand knowledge, I share the story as it comes to me from a good friend who has played golf with the person telling the story. Maybe someone knows the person? I offer nothing else at this time....

My friend told me of a guy that told him <I know how that sounds :)>, he was being sued because his tee shot on number nine at Havana, Kenya hit a woman on a bicycle on the multi-modal. When he told me I said NO WAY, cannot be.....

Some time later (year+) he said you remember I told you about the guy being sued? I said yeah. My friend said, I saw him again and the insurance company had settled with the woman for quite a hefty sum. I still told him he was nuts but we are still good friends :laugh:

The person sued also adds that the day he hit her, he felt awful and went over the fence and asked if she was OK. She said she was fine, they laughed, they talked for a bit and then she rode off very friendly.... hmmmmmmm.

</hearsay>

What insurance paid? The golfer's homeowner's insurance? The golfer's personal liability? Just curious. I didn't realize I had insurance for when I hit a golf ball.

When I posted my hearsay, I thought there may be a long shot that someone knew the golfer of which I spoke. Not yet anyway. I did follow up with an email to friend after seeing Russ' post. All that follows is hearsay again. I have no idea the validity of the story. I will only vouch for the integrity of my friend. I have no doubt that what he told me is what he was told. I share as it struck me an amazing story, no other reason....

<hearsay again>
Alan asked via email:
I know it is second hand, but tell me again about the guy who got sued for hitting someone with golf ball. I was telling the story, the folks started asking who paid, who got sued.. whose insurance paid .. It is not important, but if you have time remind me of that crazy story.

Freind's response

Guy hits a women riding on bicycle next to golf course. A year later the guy receives notice from his homeowners insurance carrier that she is suing for $300,000. He was named in the lawsuit because the insurance was unwilling to pay the total limit of the policy. The lady won the suit and the insurance was forced paid off in full. That's essentially what I was told by the guy who actually hit the lady.
</hearsay again>

[Rango]

You live on or near a golf course with expectations of being hit by golf balls with no liability assignable to the golfer. It kind of sucks that you also paid a premium for this piece of property doesn't it?

"Buyer Beware"

[zcaveman]

To me buying a home on a golf course is like buying a home on the coast.

You HAVE to know there is a danger of errant golf balls hitting your home just like those that buy a home on the coast have to know that there a danger of a hurricane taking their homes out.

I would like to hope that those buy their homes on a golf course are forced to buy additional insurance to protect their homes from damages from golf balls like those who live on the coast have to buy additional insurance to protect their homes from hurricanes.

I do not think I should have to pay anything if my golf ball accidentally breaks their window or damages their lanai screen. It is the price they pay for the view.

Those that buy these golf view houses are probably people that do not know the hazards from errant golf balls. They are enamored by the view and the fast talking sales agents. They should investigate further before they buy on a golf course.


Sorry but that is my feeling.

Z

[Gerald]

Sad to hear that so many would not pay for what they did. Bottom line is a fact both by law and course rules you hit the house and do damage you pay for the repair. However most people here that play golf don' t follow rules anyway. Ask any real lawyer or ask at the village golf in Spanish springs headquarters.

[Barefoot]

Sad to hear that so many would not pay for what they did. Bottom line is a fact both by law and course rules you hit the house and do damage you pay for the repair. However most people here that play golf don' t follow rules anyway. Ask any real lawyer or ask at the village golf in Spanish springs headquarters.

I agree, it is sad to hear that so many don't feel responsible for the damage they do. I realize this is just one opinion, and there are very different viewpoints posted in this thread.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

SO if you go by the logic some have used what would happen if you are playing pickleball and you accidentally hit another player in the eye with the pickleball? did the other player assume the risk by stepping on the court or are you responsible for paying all of the medical bills and compensating them for pain and suffering? what if you blinded them? Sure some will say this is different as the player was in the field of play but it is no different than buying a home that can reasonably be expected to be hit by a golf ball. As far as detaining a golfer trying to get away I would not recommend this approach unless you wish to go to jail for assault and possibly false imprisonment

[Cantwaittoarrive]

IF you read the following you will see that most courts have held that the golfer is not responsible for errant shots that hit houses or cars driving by on the road.

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/pdf/sportslaw/spring04/scoffield.pdf

[gustavo]

Sad to hear that so many would not pay for what they did. Bottom line is a fact both by law and course rules you hit the house and do damage you pay for the repair. However most people here that play golf don' t follow rules anyway. Ask any real lawyer or ask at the village golf in Spanish springs headquarters.

Please provide a source for your "facts" as you are dead wrong. There is no "rule" or "law" stating what you just tried to BS the reader into believing!!!

[buggyone]

I, too, am surprised at the lack of morals and ethics that so many Villagers seem to have about their personal responsibility with an errant golf shot that causes damage.

You can bet if you are ever riding with me and your shot breaks a window, I am going to drive over to that house and give them your name and address.

[redwitch]

I, too, am surprised at the lack of morals and ethics that so many Villagers seem to have about their personal responsibility with an errant golf shot that causes damage.

You can bet if you are ever riding with me and your shot breaks a window, I am going to drive over to that house and give them your name and address.

I doubt I would play golf with this individual again but I most certainly would not force him/her to go with me to the damaged home. First, the golfer who hit the house is not legally responsible, just morally and if the morals of this individual feel no responsibility, nothing you are going to say or do will change that. Second, you could be charged with unlawful detainment (or the Florida equivalent) and/or kidnapping if you took this person to the house against his/her will. Is it worth that?

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I, too, am surprised at the lack of morals and ethics that so many Villagers seem to have about their personal responsibility with an errant golf shot that causes damage.

You can bet if you are ever riding with me and your shot breaks a window, I am going to drive over to that house and give them your name and address.

So what give them the name and address the home owner has no recourse. This has nothing to do with morals or ethics. It would only have something to do with morals or ethics if it was done intentionally.

[ROCKETMAN]

I once hit a state senators son in the mouth with a errant shot. I hollered four and 3 of them hid behind some schrubs but he stuck his head out and hit him in the teeth. the father told me my homeowners insurance would cover some of the medical and he was right. in Wisconsin at least unless you do something stupid you have no liability if you hit a house or a person.

[rubicon]

Here is the Villages statement "Common Golf Course Etiquette" regarding your questions.

Golf The Villages (http://golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/etiquette.asp)

It states ..."Please never play a ball from the yard of a resident. It is also appropriate to report any damage of private property to the homeowner. We ask that you never retrieve your ball from a resident�s property."

pqrstar: Thank you for taking the time to red my post.

Again many insurance companies have coverage for property damage to others that is NOT based on liability.

The main reason most golfers get away with not paying are 1) they leave the scene 2) the damages are not costly and so a claim/;awsuit is not pursued.

I assure you if a golfer hit another golfer on a course and the golfer hit died that situation would end up in court provided. I'll wager a jury would find the golfer responsible for the plaintiff ( deceased) death.

[DougB]

Unless the golfer was negligent, I don't know, I think I would take that bet.

[buggyone]

" Second, you could be charged with unlawful detainment (or the Florida equivalent) and/or kidnapping if you took this person to the house against his/her will. Is it worth that?"

Good thought. How about if I would just give the homeowner the golfer's name and address and then drive off without him? He would get the message about what kind of scum I thought of such a person at that point, wouldn't he?

[e-flyer]

I've played a few courses in my lifetime that were surrounded by multi-million dollar house and yes, those palladium windows are very expensive. That said, up north a lot of the courses have signs at the first tee box stating that the golfer is responsible for any errant shots that cause damage to homes. Perhaps private courses/country clubs have different rules. I've been lucky "knock on wood" that I haven't sent one that far left or right, but I've seen many do it and take off like the big yellow belly chickens they are! I'm sure your parents raised you to "do the right thing and make amends" when you are wrong. Man up and pay for your consequences. The law may state otherwise, but it's the honorable thing to do. Ok, I'm done with my rant for the evening!

[redwitch]

"How about if I would just give the homeowner the golfer's name and address and then drive off without him? He would get the message about what kind of scum I thought of such a person at that point, wouldn't he?

Works for me. I'm sure he'd get the message and you wouldn't end up in jail. One stupid question since I don't play golf -- would leaving your passenger cause you to be banned from playing at that course? Just curious.

[buggyone]

Works for me. I'm sure he'd get the message and you wouldn't end up in jail. One stupid question since I don't play golf -- would leaving your passenger cause you to be banned from playing at that course? Just curious.

Probably not - just inform the clubhouse of the circumstances and they would understand, I am sure. This is basically speculating since I don't think it will ever happen to me.

[Easyrider]

" Second, you could be charged with unlawful detainment (or the Florida equivalent) and/or kidnapping if you took this person to the house against his/her will. Is it worth that?"

Good thought. How about if I would just give the homeowner the golfer's name and address and then drive off without him? He would get the message about what kind of scum I thought of such a person at that point, wouldn't he?


A little hard to understand why anyone would feel so strongly that they have the right to force their opinions or thoughts on someone else if they have clearly chosen to do differently? Obviously many don't feel responsible and if the law is on their side and they really are not responsible legally, right or wrong, who can tell them different?

Also ever hear that every action (like leaving someone) generates an equal and opposite reaction?

As they say speak your mind but have a fast horse available..:crap2:

[looneycat]

You live on or near a golf course with expectations of being hit by golf balls with no liability assignable to the golfer. It kind of sucks that you also paid a premium for this piece of property doesn't it?

and unfortunately, having paid that premium is why you are responsible, it proves your choice to live in a spot likely to put you in that kind of jeopardy, ahhh the irony!

[graciegirl]

Boy Howdy.

[Barefoot]

..... This has nothing to do with morals or ethics. It would only have something to do with morals or ethics if it was done intentionally.

I'm trying to follow your logic. Any unintentional act is OK? Is it ethical and moral to hit a car in a parking lot and take off, because it's an accident?

[Mikeod]

Then, there is this story. Yikes. :22yikes:

Man pleads guilty to shooting golfer who hit home | US National Headlines | Comcast (http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20131020/US--Golf.Course.Shooting/)

[DonH57]

Wow. What a story. Had the shooter had a better aim would bring a whole new meaning to " taking a drop ". Glad to hear he is ok.

[steve0010]

IF you read the following you will see that most courts have held that the golfer is not responsible for errant shots that hit houses or cars driving by on the road.

http://www.willamette.edu/wucl/pdf/sportslaw/spring04/scoffield.pdf

you need to reread the conclusion , that is not what it say, you are able to recover most of the time, better reread the case law!

[Carl in Tampa]

Different - if you damage a car in the parking lot you ARE responsible. We've already established that on a golf course you are not.

I've used this argument many times but here it goes again. Let's say that you have tons of ethics and you hit a ball into a window. You approach the owner and say "I know I'm not obligated but my upbringing was so righteous that I need to offer to pay for the damages". The owner says "You are a fine upstanding man and I appreciate the offer. I will take you up on it." "No problem" you say. Then the owner says "that will be $2000". You say "WHAT?". The owner says "Well it's $150 for the window but the ball also knocked down and broke and antique vase by the window".

Now you, being so righteous with such great ethics and upbringing say ?????.

This scenario is not outrageous. The point is that you should pay for things that you are responsible for. Anything beyond that and you now have to put a price on how much your ethics mean to you. What instead of 2K it was 20K or.... Where is your limit?

Very thought provoking, Russ.

Now, say you are at this same house as a guest at a party. You inadvertently hit this valuable antique vase with your elbow, knock it to the floor and destroy it.

The homeowner has not taken the special "valuable articles" supplement to his homeowner's insurance.

1. What is your legal obligation to pay for the damage?

2. What is your moral obligation to pay for the damage?

3. What would you actually offer to do about the damage?

4. Would your answer be different if the vase was in a bedroom and there were no witnesses when you broke it and you could get out without being discovered as the guilty party?

(The "you" is rhetorical; I don't question what you, personally, would do, but what a hypothetical person should do.

:popcorn:

[Warren Kiefer]

well I always wondered if the insurance would cover a golf ball through my window. I live on hacienda golf course and last week a guy hit a ball that went through my window and into another room breaking the window and destroyed the blind. my wife caught the guy as he was driving away and asked him if he was going to make it right. he said no but she could contact his insurance agent at state farm. she did and today they called and said absolutely no! I chose to live on a golf course so I assume the responsibility. so now I know!!!
im a golfer so I sorta agree with it but I still don't like it. :cus:

I had the exact opposite result with State Farm. I broke a window and State farm said no problem and paid for a new window.

[CFrance]

I had the exact opposite result with State Farm. I broke a window and State farm said no problem and paid for a new window.

Did you break your own window or somebody else's? What were the circumstances--what sport, and under what conditions?

This wasn't a problem with random non-fault damages happening to your car or house in MI. There would be $100 deductible (none for a windshield). But we were told by our insurance co. here in FL that there is not a $100 deductible for random acts against your car or house.