Words to The Wise on Bonds

[Jimbo120]

I called in to get a payoff on the bond my realtor said was about 8,000 dollars when I purchased the house 18 months ago.... guess what, the payoff is $16,967! Do not believe what people tell you... get a bond payoff when making an offer... wish I did! You can get a payoff by calling 352-751-3900 (have your tax bill handy for the required numbers)

[Challenger]

I called in to get a payoff on the bond my realtor said was about 8,000 dollars when I purchased the house 18 months ago.... guess what, the payoff is $16,967! Do not believe what people tell you... get a bond payoff when making an offer... wish I did! You can get a payoff by calling 352-751-3900 (have your tax bill handy for the required numbers)

Is there no disclosure requirement in Florida on the bond lein? Should have been fully disclosed on docs at settlement.

[TVMayor]

I called in to get a payoff on the bond my realtor said was about 8,000 dollars when I purchased the house 18 months ago.... guess what, the payoff is $16,967! Do not believe what people tell you... get a bond payoff when making an offer... wish I did! You can get a payoff by calling 352-751-3900 (have your tax bill handy for the required numbers)
Were you working with a Village realtor or MLS?

[NECHFalcon68]

I question the original 8K number (by the realtor)...

[Peachie]

I called in to get a payoff on the bond my realtor said was about 8,000 dollars when I purchased the house 18 months ago.... guess what, the payoff is $16,967! Do not believe what people tell you... get a bond payoff when making an offer... wish I did! You can get a payoff by calling 352-751-3900 (have your tax bill handy for the required numbers)

If you bought your house 18 months ago, there was at least one bond statement that you should have received in between that time and now. I believe they are mailed out around July every year. You could have verified the amount due with that statement.

[graciegirl]

Even new smallest homes; patio villas. had a larger bond than that as recently as you bought Jimbo. The general bond amount of all home models have been posted on this forum MANY TIMES.


Here is a website, listed before on this forum that gives the amount of bonds by street.

http://root.z57.com/filemanager/uploads/0/4/04cee97a-e540-73f5-3f600dee546d11b3.pdf

[JourneyOfLife]

I have had problems with a real estate agent not being truthful. But the situation was different.

I agree, verification is important.

I would think something like that would surface at closing.

[billethkid]

buyer beware....eh?

That being said it is just simply too easy to find out the real amount.

If it was a new house there was a statement at the closing.

If a resale by handled by TV there would have been clarity given on the remaining bond.

If a resale by a non TV realtor, first of all it would not happen to me. Second of all iff this is your case, I would immediately go back to the owners not the agent and demand a reconciliation of some sort for errouneous representation......IF it in fact was.

Buyer beware

btk

[rayschic]

Even new smallest homes; patio villas. had a larger bond than that as recently as you bought Jimbo. The general bond amount of all home models have been posted on this forum MANY TIMES.


Here is a website, listed before on this forum that gives the amount of bonds by street.

http://root.z57.com/filemanager/uploads/0/4/04cee97a-e540-73f5-3f600dee546d11b3.pdf

Gracie,
The link that you gave is EXCELLENT. It is,however slighty oudated. It was printed in October 2012. The payoff amount is slightly lower now.
Here's a link to the Villages website which can be used at any time to determine the origianl bond amount and the current and future payoff amounts.

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Finance/amortization.aspx)

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Is there no disclosure requirement in Florida on the bond lein? Should have been fully disclosed on docs at settlement.

my bond was fully disclosed at settlement, plus I found out the balance on my own before purchasing the home. You can also go on the VCDD site and look up the amortization of your bond Not sure why anyone would trust what an agent told them VLS or MLS

[shcisamax]

nada

[peachpit]

Thanks Ray for the web-site, it matches my bill exactly.

My CD'S are drawing on average 1.4%.
Money market .85%
My 30 year mortgage is fixed at 4%
And my bond interest is 6.125%

The default risk on these bonds must be greater than I would have thought.

[casita37]

Our realtor also quoted us a lower amount than was actually owed, however, when we got the preliminary closing statement, the true figure was on there. We had not bothered to verify the amount, but we weren't really surprised it was higher. We just "did the math" based on the age of the house and the bond amount of all the houses we looked at in the same area. Still....irritating that they try to slide that by you!
Our Realtor was an outside MLS agent, not TV agent.

[blueash]

My CD'S are drawing on average 1.4%.
Money market .85%
My 30 year mortgage is fixed at 4%
And my bond interest is 6.125%

The default risk on these bonds must be greater than I would have thought.

You are being snarky aren't you? Have you seen an open market when these bonds were issued? Rate set by the issuer, bonds purchased by whomever, paid for by homeowners and income tax free to the recipient. I don't know what the rate would be in a competitively bid market and perhaps the rate of 6.125 tax free is fair but it is interesting that the taxable yield on junk bonds is about 6-7% right now which would translate to about 4% after taxes, so these bonds are worse than typical junk bonds, hardly. Rates for municipal bonds today:
10 year bond A rated 3.90, 20 year 4.85 30 yr 5.05
10 year bond AA rated 3.15, 20 yr 4.45, 30 yr 4.80
Now these bonds were issued when rates were likely somewhat higher, but I don't know what the rate on the new bonds being issued for the new developments might be. Anyone know if there is a public market for the bonds at the time of issue?

[CarolSells]

I'm still a Georgia Realtor working on my reciprocal license here in Fl. Haven't studied FL RE law yet. But in Georgia when one takes a listing you gather paperwork and verify taxes, mortgage payoff, HOA fees payoff amount, etc. Sellers fill out a Seller's Disclosure which (I can only assume at this point would address the bond still due on Villages properties).

When you go to the closing, read every document and ask questions about any item on the HUD or settlement statement (which you have a right to review before settlement and your agent has a fiduciary to be reviewing right along with you, btw) that you might have a question about.

Having said that, agents should not, IMO, offer any "guesstimates" or undocumented $ amounts to entice you to enter into a sales agreement. It's unethical and and gives the rest of us honest agents a bad rep. Always ask for documentation. Lazy agents rely on what the seller represents to be in his/her best interest to get the property under contract.

[CarolSells]

. :( :(

[kstew43]

we are also in the process of attempting to buy in the villages. as a broward county florida realtor I know the rules when dealing with buyers and sellers.

when I take a listing I get all the info myself, excluding insurance, and have that prepared before the listing appointment with the sellers, so I can verify the actual with the sellers reality.

but as a buyer, working with the VLS or MLS realtors, I get a lot of possibly, probably and the best...we won't know that till just before closing when you get the HUD statement, need the info when you make an offer and a counter......Hud is way too late.....

guess what, I want to be a smart, prepared buyer, and I also need all the facts on everything, new or resale so I can compare bond, no bond and amouts and go with my best house value.

I am a informed buyer......BUT, most realtors VLS or MLS are Salespeople :girlneener: and push the "lifestyle" so high that even I, sometimes get lost and forget to stop and look at the reality of the financials.

Remember, realtors are salesman/woman, and we only get paid $$ if you buy......from us....so naturally we push, but I do believe that some agents who sell in the villages push really hard on the lifestyle and slide thru the money issues. I mean really, 3 city centers, music ever day, free golf.....I'm sold...Bonds, IRS, ect.....who cares...where do I sign...

My best advise, go in with your eyes Wide Open, and if you don't get the answers you feel you need, or the answers are all vague, you are Never locked into working with a realtor, switch to someone you think your can trust.

The internet county tax appraiser records should be your best friend when your buying a resale and access is available to anyone with a street address. New homes are tricky, tax records can't help there, but thats when neighbors may be able to help, plus realtors have all access you could ever need. Never accept probably....or around......

Just the Facts....Mam.....and only the facts.....

[Indy-Guy]

We really are not akin to used car salesmen. :(

Having been an Automobile salesman for 40 years before retiring to The Villages. I always felt I had more integrity than most Realtor s that I have met.

[Barefoot]

Having been an Automobile salesman for 40 years before retiring to The Villages. I always felt I had more integrity than most Realtor s that I have met.

.....

[DougB]

.....

Inquiring minds want to know.

[rubicon]

I wanted to pay off my bond and they indicted I could when I initially closed. when I went to pay it TV clerks told me it could only be paid off every July. We did pay it off that following July.

the low interests rates we thank the Fed
The concern in the bond market we can thank the Fed

the Fed's QE does make Wall Streeters richer. However it is having an adverse affect on Main Streeters and is doing nothing to boost the economy.

Now I feel better getting that off my chest

[Barefoot]

Having been an Automobile salesman for 40 years before retiring to The Villages. I always felt I had more integrity than most Realtor s that I have met.

.....

Inquiring minds want to know.

Doug, I had a momentary impulse to do a little mud wrestling! But I overcame it.

[Barefoot]

I wanted to pay off my bond and they indicted I could when I initially closed. when I went to pay it TV clerks told me it could only be paid off every July. We did pay it off that following July.

I called the Special Assessment Office yesterday (352-751-3900) re discharging our bond. We were planning to pay off the bond along with paying our yearly property tax, which we always pay by Nov. 30 to get the discount. We were told that there is no benefit to us to pay it off now. However if we pay it off prior to March 16, 2014, we will receive a 50% credit on interest.

[maureenod]

Thanks Ray for the web-site, it matches my bill exactly.

My CD'S are drawing on average 1.4%.
Money market .85%
My 30 year mortgage is fixed at 4%
And my bond interest is 6.125%

The default risk on these bonds must be greater than I would have thought.

Why would you have a 30 mortgage. Shouldn't your house be paid for at this age of your life? Or why not pay it off with CDs only getting 1.4%????

[gustavo]

Thanks Ray for the web-site, it matches my bill exactly.

My CD'S are drawing on average 1.4%.
Money market .85%
My 30 year mortgage is fixed at 4%
And my bond interest is 6.125%

The default risk on these bonds must be greater than I would have thought.

The default risk is not reflected by what you are paying in interest but what interest rate (YTM) a buyer of the bond is able to get. I'm sure these bonds, if traded, are priced well above par.

[gustavo]

Why would you have a 30 mortgage. Shouldn't your house be paid for at this age of your life? Or why not pay it off with CDs only getting 1.4%????

That would be called a liquidity crisis.

[Skybo]

Why would you have a 30 mortgage. Shouldn't your house be paid for at this age of your life? Or why not pay it off with CDs only getting 1.4%????

That would be called a liquidity crisis.

No....that would be called rude questions.

[Indy-Guy]

Doug, I had a momentary impulse to do a little mud wrestling! But I overcame it.

.........................

[tommy steam]

The word "about" would have been an alarm bell for me. Too late now but verify everything you are told.

Another thing to check is you county taxes charged at closing. We were overcharged more than double what the our part of the county taxes were and had to have it refunded by the closing agent. We were told they just estimate the county taxes at closing and that this happens all the time in their favor apparently.

Get the amount of the county tax bill for the year you closed, divide it by 365 and multiply that by the number of days you owned the property in that year and see if it agrees with the amount you were charged on your closing statement amount...
Great info, thanks

[rp001]

This seems to be prevalent with some mls realtors in this area. I purchased a home in May of this year, the bond was stated as paid off by 3 different realtors and the homeowner. When I got my tax notice there is still some owed. Of course the previous owner has moved to another state and the realtors are doing a fantastic job of saying "not my job" regarding whose responsibility it is to verify the bond is paid. If this is not resolved I will be supplying names as this seems to be more common than I thought. I contacted vcdd and they have a specific form to get the payoff and they told me the ONLY folks that can get this are realtors and homeowner of record from their office. There was absolutely no mention of a outstanding payoff at closing and yes "my bad" for not reading and clarifying every document before signing. Trust but verify.

[Indydealmaker]

Were you working with a Village realtor or MLS?

There are NO Villages Realtors. They do not qualify to be a Realtor. They are licensed real estate agents, but there is a huge difference.

[Indydealmaker]

Always require EVERYTHING a salesman tells you to be verified in writing. I can't believe the number of mature individuals who have posted on this site that they have made a significant $$$ investment without advice of attorney or doing their own due diligence.

Trust But Verify!!

[rp001]

I have to say that I have dealt with both MLS and Properties of the Villages salespeople. The perceived dishonesty seems to me to be coming primarily from the MLS folks. In my case I had been dealing with a realtor (MLS) that was recommended by a close friend and one I had used in the past. Unfortunately they are now saying that the listing agent did not do his job and verify the bond to have been paid off, and they have no responsibility. On several ocassions I asked my agent and even the homeowner if there was a bond and always, the response was no, in fact that is how the MLS listing read for the 6 weeks it was on the market.

[manaboutown]

Is there no public record of the bond balance owed on a particular house available to a potential purchaser?

[Bogie Shooter]

Is there no public record of the bond balance owed on a particular house available to a potential purchaser?

Reading of all the posts on a thead often yields answers to questions.
See post #6 #10

[rp001]

Reading of all the posts on a thead often yields answers to questions.
See post #6 #10

You are right. The message is don't trust realtors. Period

[CarolSells]

You are right. The message is don't trust realtors. Period

And I thought that this thread was about home sellers who don't know or wish to disclose the bond amount owed on there property.

[Challenger]

Accurate disclosure of the bond amount is a significant issue in the sales transaction. I believe that it is the duty of the seller and his/her rep(sales agent) to make full disclosure , prior to a firm committment(contract) by the buyer. I suspect that lack of this disclosure would be grounds for action against the sales agent and the seller. It would be in many other states. I'm not sure about Fl.
Perhaps a RE attorney might comment and clarify the issue for us.

[rp001]

At a minimum I will be following up with a formal complaint to seniors vs crime and FREC. I believe this is far too prevalent to be a mere error, and the attitude displayed from these experts adds to the fire. As a layperson, I believe there is a minimum amount of professionalism and expertise that should be expected from them. In my case both the listing agents and the buyer's agents are extremely experienced and have been doing business in the Villages for years.

[Indydealmaker]

Accurate disclosure of the bond amount is a significant issue in the sales transaction. I believe that it is the duty of the seller and his/her rep(sales agent) to make full disclosure , prior to a firm committment(contract) by the buyer. I suspect that lack of this disclosure would be grounds for action against the sales agent and the seller. It would be in many other states. I'm not sure about Fl.
Perhaps a RE attorney might comment and clarify the issue for us.

I have never been to a closing where the closing statement was not provided in advance. Likewise, I have never been to a closing where taxes and any other liens were not disclosed in the title work. There is a reason for Title Insurance.

[Challenger]

I have never been to a closing where the closing statement was not provided in advance. Likewise, I have never been to a closing where taxes and any other liens were not disclosed in the title work. There is a reason for Title Insurance.

I agree , however, the disclosures should be part of the listing information package available to the buyer even before the contract is signed. Those items are then again outlined in the closing statement as you have clearly stated.

[Indydealmaker]

I agree , however, the disclosures should be part of the listing information package available to the buyer even before the contract is signed. Those items are then again outlined in the closing statement as you have clearly stated.

I agree also. However, my experience has been that all too often real estate agents are not marketers, nor do they learn as much about their products as do other sales professionals. For example, equipment salesmen can usually even show a prospect how to perform maintenance on their products and demonstrate the specific mechanical advantages over the competition.

In a previous life I was the president of a condo association and had an opportunity to observe that virtually no real estate office in the county bothered to have on hand the condo rules and regulations or up to date association financials in spite of the fact that we made them available upon request.

Not all real estate agents lack professionalism, but all too many are lacking in basic training. Professional real estate agents do far more than driving prospects around and buying lunch.

[rayschic]

Is there no public record of the bond balance owed on a particular house available to a potential purchaser?

Just hit "Tax Search" and put the address in on this link and you will see how much, if any, is being paid on the bond. You can search by name also.


Sumter County Tax Collector (http://fl-sumter-taxcollector.governmaxa.com/collectmax/collect30.asp?sid=E06FAFBDAF194589949EB8B992D8B0DC )

Then you can use the link that I posted above, to get the payoff amount.

[Barefoot]

Just hit "Tax Search" and put the address in on this link and you will see how much, if any, is being paid on the bond. You can search by name also.

Sumter County Tax Collector (http://fl-sumter-taxcollector.governmaxa.com/collectmax/collect30.asp?sid=E06FAFBDAF194589949EB8B992D8B0DC )

Then you can use the link that I posted above, to get the payoff amount.

This is an excellent website. Thaks Rayschic.

I didn't realize I could pay our property tax online, using this website (with an electronic cheque from Citizens Bank). We saved time driving to the Tax Office and lining up. Easy peasy! And we saved $150 by paying our yearly taxes now and not in March!

[rayschic]

This is an excellent website. Thaks Rayschic.

I didn't realize I could pay our property tax online, using this website (with an electronic cheque from Citizens Bank). We saved time driving to the Tax Office and lining up. Easy peasy! And we saved $150 by paying off now and not in March!

Yes, you pay $1.50 convenience fee if you pay on-line. I always go to the tax office on 466. I see everyone grab a number and sit and wait. They have a box just inside the front door where you can just put your bill and check in an envelope. I just drop it in the box and go. I check online the next day and it's posted. Easy peasy !

[rubicon]

I called the Special Assessment Office yesterday (352-751-3900) re discharging our bond. We were planning to pay off the bond along with paying our yearly property tax, which we always pay by Nov. 30 to get the discount. We were told that there is no benefit to us to pay it off now. However if we pay it off prior to March 16, 2014, we will receive a 50% credit on interest.

Barefoot: The Special Assessment Office sent out a general notice sometime ago indicating that some residents had a refund coming. I checked and they claimed I did not.

I wanted to pay my bond off immediately they claimed I could pay it off at closing I closed in august 2006 and was told it had to be paid before July and I had to ait until the following July. In the meantime they charged me a years interest on this bond.

So based on your situation they changed their policy.

Cést la vie

[Barefoot]

Barefoot: The Special Assessment Office sent out a general notice sometime ago indicating that some residents had a refund coming. I checked and they claimed I did not. I wanted to pay my bond off immediately they claimed I could pay it off at closing I closed in august 2006 and was told it had to be paid before July and I had to ait until the following July. In the meantime they charged me a years interest on this bond. So based on your situation they changed their policy. Cést la vie

I actually talked to them again today, just to make sure I understood what they were saying. I always thought that a total discharge of bond had to be made along with the yearly property tax payment at the Tax Office. The bond payment cannot be made at the Tax Office. It has to be made at 3201 Wedgewood Lane They tell me the two pay-off dates are either prior to mid September, or prior to mid March, in order to save interest.

[Challenger]

I agree also. However, my experience has been that all too often real estate agents are not marketers, nor do they learn as much about their products as do other sales professionals. For example, equipment salesmen can usually even show a prospect how to perform maintenance on their products and demonstrate the specific mechanical advantages over the competition.

In a previous life I was the president of a condo association and had an opportunity to observe that virtually no real estate office in the county bothered to have on hand the condo rules and regulations or up to date association financials in spite of the fact that we made them available upon request.

Not all real estate agents lack professionalism, but all too many are lacking in basic training. Professional real estate agents do far more than driving prospects around and buying lunch.

So right

In my previous life I was a community banker. The preponderence of our transactions were home loans. My loan officers would bring me stories about real estate salespeople that would curl your hair. They(for the most part) had little or no understanding of the legal implications of the contract that they were drawing. They would make modifications off the top of their --- with out regard to the fact the they had possibly negated the contract. Misrepresentations about condo doc and community assn regs and it goes on. Many of the folks were part timers and floated in and out of the business, and were rushed on the street by their brokers. During my career I met a "few" true professionals , but the operative word is"few"

Faced with this type of incompetence , the last defense for the home buyer was a Reputable Title co. that would usually attempt to fix the mistakes and misstaments of the RE people.

Caveat Emptor
a phrase that so often applies to this forum.:pepper2:

[rayschic]

I actually talked to them again today, just to make sure I understood what they were saying. I always thought that a total discharge of bond had to be made along with the yearly property tax payment at the Tax Office. The bond payment cannot be made at the Tax Office. It has to be made at 3201 Wedgewood Lane They tell me the two pay-off dates are either prior to mid September, or prior to mid March, in order to save interest.

Here's a link to more info about the bond payoff. Look at the 8th question, in particular.

VCDD Bond FAQs (http://districtgov.org/departments/Finance/faq.aspx)

[manaboutown]

Thank you rayschic. Very much appreciated!

[2BNTV]

my bond was fully disclosed at settlement, plus I found out the balance on my own before purchasing the home. You can also go on the VCDD site and look up the amortization of your bond Not sure why anyone would trust what an agent told them VLS or MLS

:agree: Bought thru an MLS realtor, who told me upfront what the bond amount was. Besides, I asked point blank.

Taxes start in November, every year. Bonds can be paid off in full, after the first of the year if one wants to do that. My first tax bill included the bond amount and I called the VCCD office, and found how to pay the bond. Mine is very small.

If your real agent didn't disclose this amount, they were remiss in their fudiciary obligation. If you want to pursue this course of action. it's up to you.

[rp001]

I was told by three realtors that the bond was paid. One from the seller and two representing me..All said many times the bond was paid..Absolute misinformation from my experienced MLS agents, who are blaming the listing agent. It's a comedy of errors but the only one laughing is the seller.

[2BNTV]

I was told by three realtors that the bond was paid. One from the seller and two representing me..All said many times the bond was paid..Absolute misinformation from my experienced MLS agents, who are blaming the listing agent. It's a comedy of errors but the only one laughing is the seller.

I am so sorry that happened to you. It seems, like you can go after the agents and or seller because he was not fully disclosing this transaction correctly. It does seem actionable, but I am not a lawyer.

If this a large amount of money, maybe you want to consider consulting a lawyer for your own piece of mind.

I know, I would bepee'd off. I hope this is not a case of someone pi**ing on your leg, and telling you it's raining outside or buyer beware. I know I wouldn't have had the presence of mind to checked it out beforehand.

Good luck, in seeing if this is something, you can do something about.

[Advogado]

I continue to be surprised that the FTC or other regulatory agency hasn't forced the Developer (and MLS brokers) to disclose the amount of the bond in advertisements. Not to do so is really nothing more than deceptive advertising. Most Villagers are probably well-informed enough to determine the amount of the bond and consider it part of what they will be paying for the house. However, as indicated by this thread, at least some first-time buyers are not.

The present system of untruth in advertising gives the Developer an edge in selling new homes--which have a very high bond and which compete against preowned homes with a much-lower bond.

[Easyrider]

I continue to be surprised that the FTC or other regulatory agency hasn't forced the Developer (and MLS brokers) to disclose the amount of the bond in advertisements. Not to do so is really nothing more than deceptive advertising. Most Villagers are probably well-informed enough to determine the amount of the bond and consider it part of what they will be paying for the house. However, as indicated by this thread, at least some first-time buyers are not.

The present system of untruth in advertising gives the Developer an edge in selling new homes--which have a very high bond and which compete against preowned homes with a much-lower bond.

Big money talks really loud...:boom: Apparently the state of Florida doesn't care either.

[Advogado]

Big money talks really loud...:boom: Apparently the state of Florida doesn't care either.
So it seems.

[Easyrider]

So it seems.

For sure, the IRS issue should also have been being disclosed for a long time now and should be disclosed going forward until resolved to any new prospective buyer. Either no one cares or don't think there is anything they can do...could come back to bite big time if it tuns out negatively in the end. :boxing2: