Why All The Animus On This Site ?

[Buffalo Jim]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having visiting twice and seeing / experiencing more attributes each time I became convinced that TV is indeed most unique .

Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".

Why are so many of the people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???

Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?

There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?

Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages ?

Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .

Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!

Now back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .

Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .

There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".

Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !

My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!

I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?

So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .

Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more businesses do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note of this site when they conduct their Due Diligence ?

I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ".

Frankly , I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much back for our future generations in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

[DougB]

Your real name isn't Buffalo Jim?

[Challenger]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

I too am a retired Community banker and worked with Developers all through my career. Jim- I wish I had the patience to write what you did

Right On!!:bigbow:

[raynan]

Jim,
I totally agree. I was a lurker for over 4 years on this website before I moved here 3 years ago. I never did get why people bash the developer. They are not held hostage here. There does seem to be much more whining and pettiness on this site where I used to find it helpful. I really cringe when someone attacks a newbie. Yes, it may be their first or second post but everyone has to start somewhere.
Nancy

[Buffalo Jim]

I too am a retired Community banker and worked with Developers all through my career. Jim- I wish I had the patience to write what you did

Right On!!:bigbow:

Thank you for being brave enough to show me some support .
It`s going to get ugly real quick .

[Pepperhead]

Thank you for being brave enough to show me some support .
It`s going to get ugly real quick .

Isn't that what you want?

[Buffalo Jim]

Jim,
I totally agree. I was a lurker for over 4 years on this website before I moved here 3 years ago. I never did get why people bash the developer. They are not held hostage here. There does seem to be much more whining and pettiness on this site where I used to find it helpful. I really cringe when someone attacks a newbie. Yes, it may be their first or second post but everyone has to start somewhere.
Nancy

Thanks the last time I took the risk of pointing out something positive about the Developer some person who calls them-self " Gomo " or something like that told me to " shut-up " and " butt -out " .

Nice very nice !

[the square]

Wow, I wonder whose writing the screen play to this script????

[angiefox10]

I agree Jim.... I don't post very much any more. It doesn't matter what you post, you will only get beat up anyway. It's more than people posting their opinion. People just get mean. Even the people who post under their own name can be passive/aggressive.

I wonder if as we get older.... we just don't tolerate things like we used to. Too set in our ways?

I don't know.

Good luck with this thread... I'm out!

[DougB]

Just what we need, a 10 paragraph complaint about people complaining.
:0000000000luvmyhors

Other than that, how was your day today?

[Buffalo Jim]

Isn't that what you want?

I am seeking some honest dialog . I can only hope that what I sense might be " The Silent Majority " might be inspired to speak up .

[Buffalo Jim]

Just what we need, a 10 paragraph complaint about people complaining.
:0000000000luvmyhors

Other than that, how was your day today?

Sorry Doug to take up your time but thanks for reading and for your well thought out input .

[DougB]

Sorry Doug to take up your time but thanks for reading and for your well thought out input .

I actually didn't read the whole thing. I got bored around the trophy wife segment.

[swimdawg]

Buffalo Jim.....Buffalo Karen here. If you look at my post on the CarGuys Colony thread about an hour ago, I asked where all the fun and cool posters who used to regularly post on this forum disappeared to? We used to have fun!

I think it's good to be realistic...but this forum has become so negative that it has been a turn-off to many.

I'm not saying that this forum should be full of boring fluff but the negativity is ridiculous! Where are the posters with a sense of humor? This forum has become way too serious.

(Hope to see you at the Buffalo Bills-Tampa Bay game at McCall's on Dec. 8th. It's always FUN!)

[bmarlo767]

Right ON!! Great post

[Buffalo Jim]

Just what we need, a 10 paragraph complaint about people complaining.
:0000000000luvmyhors

Other than that, how was your day today?

Thanks for your very well thought out input Doug . I found it to be very constructive . It does seem to be the goal here of regular " Posters " with the exception of Gracie for sure to immediately pillage anyone who does not embrace the negative side of living here .

You have my name , email and even my phone number if you might wish to hold a reasoned dialog .
Until then best wishes . Jim

[golf2140]

To many Blue States any more.

[Buffalo Jim]

I actually didn't read the whole thing. I got bored around the trophy wife segment.

Thanks again Doug for your highly insightful comment . I am sure that you must donate much of your time to positive giving activities here in the Villages .
However based on your history of Posts I am going to " call you out " and say :
I don`t think so . Again you know how to find me . I would welcome a one on one discussion and thanks for all you do for others .

[bmarlo767]

I thought it was a very well thought out post.
I welcome a post that gets the point across with out sarcasm.

[bmarlo767]

I know It got deep quickly, To really finish it you have to think.

[swimdawg]

Fasten your seatbelts, gang....it's going to be a bumpy night...or is it a bumpy ride?

[Buffalo Jim]

The crux of the hatred for the developer is in this statement:

"My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph. Really!!"

Some loathe and hate the developer because of his partisan preferences.

And below is the context of that incident. It seems to be an "inconvenient truth" that the parking lot there by Barnes & Noble serves patrons to MANY businesses, from the hotel, to Cody's, to Coldwater Creek, Sherwin Williams, City Fire, Mercantile Shop, Japanese Hibachi.....and....the MOVIE THEATER. Maybe the driver was late in getting to a movie that starts at a specified time!!

This labeling and bigotry gets applied to the developer:

"I was now behind them and at the next intersection to Barnes and Nobel they pulled into the parking lot. It is unbelievable they were willing to cause an accident and hurt someone just to get to B&N to get Palin's autograph. This kind of aggressiveness for such a non emergency is tragic."

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/near-accident-95562/

Sorry but your emotion gets in the way of your point or points . Please clarify for the benefit of all .
As I undertsand it you are angry at the Developer because an author on a " book tour " came to an independent bookstore for a promotion and you know 100% that a person who drove poorly was rushing to attend said promotion .
The logic transcends all of my education and life experience so I humbly apologize .
Since the bookstore in question is a major US corporation and operated under a lease but otherwise independent of the Developer how could you manage to connect the dots to such a conclusion . It would really be helpful to know .
On the other hand I am certain if the Bookstore felt that they could hold a book promotion which is paid for by a publisher for just say a book called " The Audacity of Hope " or say " Dreams of My Father " [ who I never knew } I am certain that they would have done so .
Help me out here . Book tours are paid for by the publisher not Barnes and Noble or The Developer .
Your logic is scary .

[Big O]

Buffalo Jim:
I think you are correct that the Developer takes an unusual amount of flack on this site. If you lurk like I have for the past year or so you see the same names fanning the flames. I divide them into three groups:

1. Political: Mr. Morse is big in one of the political parties and those of the other persuasion like to make everything including the weather his fault. (Of course they won't say it is political.)
2. Trolls: Their only purpose is to get people excited.
3. Those who don't like anything.

For the most part the people on TOTV are thoughtful and pleasant, and that is what makes it worth while.

[CFrance]

Sorry but your emotion gets in the way of your point or points . Please clarify for the benefit of all .
As I undertsand it you are angry at the Developer because an author on a " book tour " came to an independent bookstore for a promotion and you know 100% that a person who drove poorly was rushing to attend said promotion .
The logic transcends all of my education and life experience so I humbly apologize .
Since the bookstore in question is a major US corporation and operated under a lease but otherwise independent of the Developer how could you manage to connect the dots to such a conclusion . It would really be helpful to know .
On the other hand I am certain if the Bookstore felt that they could hold a book promotion which is paid for by a publisher for just say a book called " The Audacity of Hope " or say " Dreams of My Father " [ who I never knew } I am certain that they would have done so .
Help me out here . Book tours are paid for by the publisher not Barnes and Noble or The Developer .
Your logic is scary .

I didn't get the same take you did from ilovetv's post. I thought she was giving an example of someone who blames/hates the developer because of his political leanings, not her own opinion of the developer. She quoted another poster as an example of how people take off on the developer.

If I'm wrong, maybe she will clarify.

[Buffalo Jim]

I didn't get the same take you did from ilovetv's post. I thought she was giving an example of someone who blames/hates the developer because of his political leanings, not her own opinion of the developer. She quoted another poster as an example of how people take off on the developer.

If I'm wrong, maybe she will clarify.

Ok . Thanks . I thought apparently incorrectly that she was the person who made such a " beyond the pale " conclusion and had been actively pushing her point .

My apologies .

[Buffalo Jim]

Buffalo Jim:
I think you are correct that the Developer takes an unusual amount of flack on this site. If you lurk like I have for the past year or so you see the same names fanning the flames. I divide them into three groups:

1. Political: Mr. Morse is big in one of the political parties and those of the other persuasion like to make everything including the weather his fault. (Of course they won't say it is political.)
2. Trolls: Their only purpose is to get people excited.
3. Those who don't like anything.

For the most part the people on TOTV are thoughtful and pleasant, and that is what makes it worth while.

As no doubt you can tell from my comments that I more than find it discouraging and frankly if I had spent time on this site as I was considering making such a major move I might well have decided otherwise .
It seems that anyone who might feel contrary to the majority attitude of the Posters on this site that they quickly get trashed such that they decide to not participate . This I submit is the usual tyranny of the minority which has become so pervasive in our society .

[ilovetv]

I didn't get the same take you did from ilovetv's post. I thought she was giving an example of someone who blames/hates the developer because of his political leanings, not her own opinion of the developer. She quoted another poster as an example of how people take off on the developer.

If I'm wrong, maybe she will clarify.

Thank you for understanding and clarifying that. You understood it as I meant it. I deleted it because it was so misunderstood by the o.p., to whom I sent a PM to clarify.

[CFrance]

Thank you for understanding and clarifying that. You understood it as I meant it. I deleted it because it was so misunderstood by the o.p., to who I sent a PM to clarify.

No problem. I think because I am familiar with your posts that I was pretty sure what you meant.

[LndLocked]

I find it very interesting that anyone would think that anywhere near the majority of the posters on this board are anti "developer" .... IMO, the exact opposite is true.

In my experience, if anything is posted that is less than the developer walks on water .... the obligatory "you should just sell and move" posting is very near.

[Indydealmaker]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

Jim,
I have noticed that most of the posters, regardless of sex, who seem to distrust the developer also post almost exclusively negative and confrontational diatribes. Maybe it is hormonal and just general malaise.

[OurHappyHome]

Jim I love you post. We have a lot of negativity here at time. But there is also so much to learn. This is where I get my news, it's my Angie's List, I found most of my doctors.

I personally thank people who make money, making my life better. Mr Morse and family, Mr Disney, and all those people who work long hard thankless hours in resteraunts so I can enjoy a night out with my friends.

Ask not what the Villages can do for you, Ask what you can do to make the Villages better?
I still can't believe they shot him 50 years ago. Well now I'm rambling.

We just need more Love Gratitude and Acceptance of each other.

Lastly that was pretty big of you to put your name and details down.

[Buffalo Jim]

I actually didn't read the whole thing. I got bored around the trophy wife segment.

You are correct I really should not have mentioned the Trophy Wife .
She was and for 10 years . I came home a few hours early after my 5 Sate " fair-well " tour to my 500 associates I managed and found her and her personal trainer doing some very special exercises in our bedroom .

Turned out he was not her " only " Now that I have been in Court for nearly 7 years and am pretty much broke I have become a bit sensitive about it .
Especially the part where she refuses to allow me to see our daughter for now over 3 1/2 years .
I went to Court over that matter and the Judge said " I am reserving my Decision " that was over 3 years ago and he still refuses to issue a Decision .
So yeah I guess that makes me a bit testy .
By the way her lawyer who will only handle women and is a woman made sure during our Trial to let the Judge know exactly which political party I was an active member of even though my lovely wife was also a registered member and active fundraiser for the same party . And she also told a close mutual friend " I`m going to retire off this case . I want him to have nothing left .
I had worked and saved and invested for 25 years before I married her . But I am pretty much cleaned out and the numbers are staggering
Since I came here from a Rust-Belt broken down City where fully 40% of the population is on some type of Gvt. transfer payment and the largest 3 employers in the community are State , federal and County you can probably pretty much connect the dots .

[Indydealmaker]

Sorry but your emotion gets in the way of your point or points . Please clarify for the benefit of all .
As I undertsand it you are angry at the Developer because an author on a " book tour " came to an independent bookstore for a promotion and you know 100% that a person who drove poorly was rushing to attend said promotion .
The logic transcends all of my education and life experience so I humbly apologize .
Since the bookstore in question is a major US corporation and operated under a lease but otherwise independent of the Developer how could you manage to connect the dots to such a conclusion . It would really be helpful to know .
On the other hand I am certain if the Bookstore felt that they could hold a book promotion which is paid for by a publisher for just say a book called " The Audacity of Hope " or say " Dreams of My Father " [ who I never knew } I am certain that they would have done so .
Help me out here . Book tours are paid for by the publisher not Barnes and Noble or The Developer .
Your logic is scary .
Jim, I think you misread ILOVETVs post. I understood she was pointing out that much of the distrust pointed at the developer is because of his politics. She was quoting from a previous post.

[DougB]

You are correct I really should not have mentioned the Trophy Wife .
She was and for 10 years . I came home a few hours early after my 5 Sate " fair-well " tour to my 500 associates I managed and found her and her personal trainer doing some very special exercises in out bedroom .

Turned out he was not her " only " Now that I have been in Court for nearly 7 years and am pretty much broke I have become a bit sensitive about it .
Especially the part where she refuses to allow me to see our daughter for now over 3 1/2 years .
I went to Court over that matter and the Judge said " I am reserving my Decision " that was over 3 years ago and he still refuses to issue a Decision .
So yeah I guess that makes me a bit testy .
By the way her lawyer who will only handle woman and is a woman made sure during our Trial to let the Judge know exactly which political party I was an active member of even though my lovely wife was also a registered
member and active fundraiser for the same party .
Since I came here from a Rust-Belt broken down City where fully 40% of the population is on some type of Gvt. transfer payment and the largest 3 employers in the community are State , federal and County you can probably
pretty much connect the dots .

Very sorry to hear about the trouble you have had. I especially hope you get to see your daughter soon. It saddens me. I honestly do feel for you.

[graciegirl]

.

We would like to know you Jim. Our welcome mat is always out and the coffee pot is always on.

Some of us, make that a LOT of us are really, truly, honestly, happy and satisfied here and no one is paying us to say that. Dear good positive people live here and sit on both sides of the political aisle and are dependable and kind human beings in every way.

Kindest regards,

Gracie. and family.


But...You are incorrect about Gomoho. That girl is honest and bright and VERY fair. I can't think when she has called something wrong.

ilv2rdhd has said it wisely. The written word, without the benefit of facial expression and body English is often misinterpreted. AND only if you read the forum a LOT do you get the gist of certain posters personalities.

And we all screw up. Yes we do.

[jrandall]

Buffalo Jim,
Thank you for your frank and courageous post. I have considered that I should stop using this site because there are too many negative and sarcastic comments. This does seem to occur when someone posts a positive comment about TV. I try to ignore these negative remarks because I have truly received helpful advice or recommendations from posters on this site as well. My mother's sage comes to my mind regularly " if you don't have anything positive to say, don't bother saying it". If you do choose to make a negative remark, give some thought to what benefit that remark will have to those who will be receiving it.

Thanks again for sharing Buffalo Jim!

[Buffalo Jim]

The number of people who have been sending me Private Messages in support of my observations is amazing . So far I have counted 11 .
This begs the question and supports my major points . Many who hold a view which is contrary to the posters who dominate this site have become disaffected and discouraged from attempting to contribute to the discourse .

[Buffalo Jim]

Buffalo Jim,
Thank you for your frank and courageous post. I have considered that I should stop using this site because there are too many negative and sarcastic comments. This does seem to occur when someone posts a positive comment about TV. I try to ignore these negative remarks because I have truly received helpful advice or recommendations from posters on this site as well. My mother's sage comes to my mind regularly " if you don't have anything positive to say, don't bother saying it". If you do choose to make a negative remark, give some thought to what benefit that remark will have to those who will be receiving it.

Thanks again for sharing Buffalo Jim!

The only reason why I have continued to review the postings on this site is to attempt to learn information which is useful however the level of negativity in my view seems to be at an all time high since I became a member 2 years ago . Thanks for having the courage to speak out . Jim

[ilovetv]

I find it very interesting that anyone would think that anywhere near the majority of the posters on this board are anti "developer" .... IMO, the exact opposite is true.

In my experience, if anything is posted that is less than the developer walks on water .... the obligatory "you should just sell and move" posting is very near.

I don't think we're "pro-developer" as much as we are pro productivity, pro solvency, pro visionary, pro job-producing, pro revitalization, pro community, pro hometown atmosphere, pro consumer confidence, pro housing market, pro new local healthcare model which he's financing, etc.

Our support is in the goals and results accomplished well, not in a purveyor of ideology that results in little or no practicality.

[Peachie]

I don't think we're "pro-developer" as much as we are pro productivity, pro solvency, pro visionary, pro job-producing, pro revitalization, pro community, pro hometown atmosphere, pro consumer confidence, pro housing market, pro new local healthcare model which he's financing, etc.

Our support is in the goals and results accomplished well, not in a purveyor of ideology that results in little or no practicality.

Nicely put, ilovetv. :agree:

[CFrance]

The number of people who have been sending me Private Messages in support of my observations is amazing . So far I have counted 11 .
This begs the question and supports my major points . Many who hold a view which is contrary to the posters who dominate this site have become disaffected and discouraged from attempting to contribute to the discourse .

That may be true. It could also be that they fear being censored by the Mods, or else they don't want to be too negative on the forum itself. Or they don't want to get bashed themselves.

Sometimes anonymity brings out the fangs. I think the Admin has done a good job of weeding out the truly offensive posters. And sometimes those posters come back on under another name.

I am truly sorry for your situation with your child, and what your wife did to you. (Off topic:) And okay, so maybe metro New Yorkers are nasty drivers! You lived there longer than we did.

[LynnDeb]

I thought it was a very well thought out post.
I welcome a post that gets the point across with out sarcasm.

I agree, Jim you told it like it is...hugs to you:coolsmiley:

[Buffalo Jim]

In all likelihood this Thread will get wiped out tomorrow by the Moderator .
However as of this post I have received no less than now 16 PMs and pretty much each person has indicated that they have been discouraged from joining in on the dialog because they do not wish to get " bashed " by the " regulars " who routinely post here .
Also for what it may be worth one PM was from a sponsor of this site who shared that he will not be renewing his contact which expires soon due to the general tone of the site .
No sponsors no site . Somewhere behind all of this there is a business person who pays to keep all of this going and obviously relies on sponsors .
At the end of the day for someone this is a business and not an " entitlement " or an " amenity " .

[graciegirl]

In all likelihood this Thread will get wiped out tomorrow by the Moderator .
However as of this post I have received no less than now 16 PMs and pretty much each person has indicated that they have been discouraged from joining in on the dialog because they do not wish to get " bashed " by the " regulars " who routinely post here .
Also for what it may be worth one PM was from a sponsor of this site who shared that he will not be renewing his contact which expires soon due to the general tone of the site .
No sponsors no site . Somewhere behind all of this there is a business person who pays to keep all of this going and obviously relies on sponsors .
At the end of the day for someone this is a business and not an " entitlement " or an " amenity " .


Jim.

I think people have said that they don't want to get bashed by the regulars on this site, when the regulars on this site are mostly positive.

Positive..i.e. supportive of this place and how things are done and of the way the developers have planned it.

I know I bash on people who are always negative, who state things that are half truths. Those people are not rooting for my team. It is hard to remain silent when I personally believe this is an amazing place to live and a wonderful new life for seniors.

There are those who are always "selling down" this place and almost always get jubilant if they can find evidence anywhere that some error has been committed by SumterInc. I wonder WHY?

[JaniceOhio]

Wow Gang --- I haven't even closed yet, but here's what I see. We (me soon too!) are a cross-section of the society we left. So some will be negative, some will be uplifting, some will ridicule and some will heal those that are wounded.

We all come from the schoolyard...Cheerleaders, quarterbacks, geeks, healers, leaders, followers, wallflowers and loners. What's so cool this time is that we're old enough to know we have a choice as to who and how we want to be.

I really look forward to living in TV. Knowing things will not be perfect I will choose to hang out with those who enjoy life despite it's imperfections. We only live so many days and I'm out for two things.. good friends and good times.

Oh yes.....Buffalo Jim..I admire your guts and respect your opinions. Rock on! Janice

[Buffalo Jim]

Gracie : I very much respect you and the special touch which you always bring to this site . However I am convinced that there are many who read the comments and do not share because of the concerns which I have expressed .
While clearly not a valid survey the 16 PMs I have received tonight would suggest that there are many who agree with my point of view and wish that the overall tone and civility were different .

[mixsonci]

I appreciate this dialoge. I am new to this site. I do like it because it can be very informative, especially when you are new to The Villages. I just bought my house in September and I am renting it, so I appreciate the problems that may arise so I don't panic when it does happen...example I read about the plumbing problems in Collier (where my house is) so when my tenant wrote to tell me there was a plumbing problem, I was aware of it and didn't panic. On the other hand, I have posted a couple of questions and some of the responses were very sarcastic and ridiculing. I have been quite shy to post other questions I have. So thank you for bringing attention to sarcastic responders, I've actually been considering doing that myself.

[Taltarzac725]

I don't think we're "pro-developer" as much as we are pro productivity, pro solvency, pro visionary, pro job-producing, pro revitalization, pro community, pro hometown atmosphere, pro consumer confidence, pro housing market, pro new local healthcare model which he's financing, etc.

Our support is in the goals and results accomplished well, not in a purveyor of ideology that results in little or no practicality.

Agree ilovetv. I really do not see that much sarcasm coming from anti-developer posters on TOTV. Once in a while, yes, but not all that often. I have found the TOTVers I have met in person quite friendly and straightforward and have been on TOTV since July 2007.

As to some things that have bothered me over the years I have been in the Villages. This is since late June of 2005.

If you do not like the Villages Daily Sun , you can buy another newspaper. They are starting to get more Lionsgate movies here in the Villages which was one of the things that bothered me. I had to go to Belleview for instance to see The Hunger Games as they would not show it here as it was a Lionsgate film. It did seem that one of the reasons they would not show Lionsgate movies was that they would they also have to show other Lionsgate movies like those of a certain flinty film maker which are also distributed by Lionsgate.

[DianeM]

As no doubt you can tell from my comments that I more than find it discouraging and frankly if I had spent time on this site as I was considering making such a major move I might well have decided otherwise .
It seems that anyone who might feel contrary to the majority attitude of the Posters on this site that they quickly get trashed such that they decide to not participate . This I submit is the usual tyranny of the minority which has become so pervasive in our society .

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.

[Taltarzac725]

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.

Still have a problem with this whole thread. Most of top Ten posters on TOTV are very much supporters of the Villages. They have various quirks but seem to love being here in the Villages. I certainly miss it quite a bit when away usually in Palm Harbor, FL which often has horrific traffic.

[2BNTV]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ". Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ??? Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ? Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ? You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY ! My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

Jim:

I think your post was very heartfelt and I am sorry what happened to you, with your wife and child. I wish you peace and happiness. I have read almost everything on this site and my findings are, "there are many happy people, and people who will willing to help people". There are a few complainers, but I tend to ignore them, and go on my merry way. I don't let anyone rent space in my head. :D

As far as the developer, I am very thankful, he had the guts and vision to build such a paradise on earth. He's not perfect in everything he does, but he gets 99% of his idea's are right. His business acumen is great and he deserves every penny for his vision for building a beautiful place for us seniors to have fun and a healthy lifestyle. The IRS bond issue, is something many people are concerned about, but I for one, don't wory about it, when I think how beautiful this place is. The bond issue might get resolved long after we leave this earth. No one truly knows. IMHO

It's human nature for some people to bitch, but I take some things with a grain of salt and tend to look at the big picture of things. Life is too short to be unhappy. I like to welcome newbies to this site as it is informative and some people are so willing to help other people. All of us have families, but I for one appreciate the sense of community here on this site and around TV. This site is a great source of information especially the advice of those that have been here for a while, People have found contractors and services through the advice given, so they can make the transition easier. I am very grateful that I have found this site for the support given to me. I have made several friends in my life that are family to me, and I hope to continue this tradition here in TV.

I would like to think, about what I am trying to convey before I hit the submit button. When someone was annoying, I really thought about, "do I want to respond, and get myself all upset". My hope is you will stay on this site, as there are many wonderful people. You can always use the ignore feature if you don't want to see a certain person's posts.

Some people try to convey humor on this site that sometimes comes across as scarcasim, (spelt wrong), oops. The printed word leaves something to be desired. Even when I agree to disagree with someone, I do it respectfully. Not everyone will agree on everything. I try to help newbies and welcome them to this site. If I have offended anyone, I would be the first to apologize. Stick around, and you get to know the people better, and know where they are coming from. It will help as you will see the attempts at humor, are not meant to hurt anyone.

I agree some people may not have the patience or the ability to be concise when posting, and we should all try to understand where they are coming from. Some people may not feel well and just convey those underlying thoughts, when posting. I try not to offend anyone, and when there is a misunderstanding, I found that clarifying one's position, turned into a friendship.

I think your post was excellent. Like Lincoln said, "people are as happy, as they make up their minds to be". :smiley:

Respectfully,

Joe

BTW - I have noticed the price of my homes value has skyrocketed in the few short months, after I bought. What I lost in trying to get here, will be made up with the escalating prices. I am a happy camper! :smiley:

[graciegirl]

As one who as been thrashed, I applaud your guts for this post.


I think that most of us are born viewing the glass as either half full or half empty.

Early on I thought the ones who were always gloom and doom had either had too much bad happen to them, or not enough.

Some of us were born with the ability to easily connect with other people and that great gift is a double edged sword, That sometimes means that we cannot fulfill all of the responsibilities of friendship to others in a way that we should and in a way they expect.

I think that all of us need to feel loved and important. That we want others to value and listen to what we say and some people seek the very attention they so need by being negative. Because to them, any attention, even if it be from irritation, or anger is better than the awful loneliness they are experiencing.

Sometimes, people need love most who are most unlovable.

Sometimes, not always, people hurt others because they are lacking in real caring feelings, or because they can, or because their anonymity allows them to get away with it. Or because they cannot see the humanness or worth in others. I also know as we age, we become more and more convinced that the conclusions we have come to are right and it takes a lot to be open to change or to allow other opinions to really allow us to be stirred up and admit to ourselves we were wrong.

I think that we all often stagger and fall and use the very gifts we were given to hurt or show how smart we are. This forum often points out to me that I have a lot to learn and I frequently act like a smart ass, until I see that it has hurt someone who is innocent and doesn't get me at all.

We need to try harder to be fair, accepting and helpful without being dishonest. Some friendships that were begun on this forum haven't worked out because the expectations we have for each other are unrealistic.

First we need to try to do no harm.

This lecture is for me primarily.

[Deerfly]

For quite awhile I have been reading the postings in Talk of The Villages. Very interesting. My postings have been hopefully helpful to people inquiring about the way things are in The Villages. I have been a resident for 10 years. The population is about three times what it was then.
There certainly are reasons to complain about how some incident occurred that you observed and I read your complaints. Mostly there is no reason to jump on your wagon.
Thanks for your observations. I agree with almost all of what you cite.
Deerfly

[Cisco Kid]

Dear Mr Buffalo Jim
After 2 trips to TV
I have found there to be absolutely no correlation between TOTV
and the TV.
I see you have live here for two years , I hope you have found the same.
I have one of those personality does not post well, so I have had to tone it down and post a lot less.

P.S. am I the only one that wants to see a photo of the trophy wife ? :1rotfl:

[gomoho]

Thanks the last time I took the risk of pointing out something positive about the Developer some person who calls them-self " Gomo " or something like that told me to " shut-up " and " butt -out " .

Nice very nice !

Buffalo Jim - Gomoho here - I was taken aback when I read your comment about me so I went back to your old posts and what actually occurred was on a post about people not being provided internet access during their LSV you made reference to the fact that you couldn't believe so many people would be involved in such a "trivial matter". I respectfully asked you to butt out if it didn't interest you and allow us to discuss what we wanted to.

If I were a little more computer savvy I would post the entire dialogue for your reading pleasure and the fact you referred to me as a left wing cat lover that probably worked for the government. By the way - wrong on all counts.

[Golfingnut]

Sorry but your emotion gets in the way of your point or points . Please clarify for the benefit of all .
As I undertsand it you are angry at the Developer because an author on a " book tour " came to an independent bookstore for a promotion and you know 100% that a person who drove poorly was rushing to attend said promotion .
The logic transcends all of my education and life experience so I humbly apologize .
Since the bookstore in question is a major US corporation and operated under a lease but otherwise independent of the Developer how could you manage to connect the dots to such a conclusion . It would really be helpful to know .
On the other hand I am certain if the Bookstore felt that they could hold a book promotion which is paid for by a publisher for just say a book called " The Audacity of Hope " or say " Dreams of My Father " [ who I never knew } I am certain that they would have done so .
Help me out here . Book tours are paid for by the publisher not Barnes and Noble or The Developer .
Your logic is scary .
I think the point was missed. My take was that anyone that could drive so bad must be stupid; hence, just like that said promotion. Birds of a feather don't ya know.

[kittygilchrist]

Jim, I'm happy to see you here. Not all people who post are bright, well-experienced, logical and thorough. Few are as bright as you are and some are just mean. Nothing will change that, but it often happens that those showing extreme idiocy and hatefulness are chastised by the regulars.

I agree your point that we have much for which to be grateful, yet we snivel and whine. TOTV offers an opportunity to feel connected to the community while sipping coffee in our pj's. Refreshing to see an intellectual post, in what is an important social medium...be gentle and play with us often.

[SALYBOW]

I agree with most if not all of what you say. The one thing I would add is that there are some people who are nice and sweet here.
I have never understood the animosity toward the developer. Where I come from there is a family named Lindner. They have developed many things and are very well to do, So what, they earned it.
Here the developer got his money by developing an incredible retirement community to which people are flocking. In it we can live a life far better than many places in this country. Am I supposed to be upset about the quality of life he has provided for me?
I recently retired from TVRH as a chaplain. While I feel that the work I did there was incredibility helpful to the people to which I ministered, I was never paid anything near what the developer makes. Does this make me mad? No, I knew it going in. I provided a service to people who were in dire need and he provides a wonderful place to retire.
Maybe the problem here is that society values certain endeavors way higher than others. Sports greats make far more than great teachers, pastors and environmental workers. This is not because THEY value their occupation higher but because society values them higher. Why does a radiologist get paid way more than an internal medicine doc? Why, because we live in a capitalistic society.
It is what it is. I can always decide to move out of TV if I hate it here. We all can. Working hard all our lives has earned us the ability to retire here; it does not give us the "right" to anything we want or need. The feeling of entitlement that exists here is sometimes overwhelming.

Just MHO. Thanks

[Jskates9]

Wow - as a new, very part-time Villager I have very much enjoyed TOTV. From my perspective, the vast majority of the posts reflect individuals and couples who are absolutely thrilled with their homes and the lifestyle here in the Villages. Sure, there are some people who prefer to gripe and complain. I simply take those for what they are worth because I believe I am fully capable of forming my own opinions.

Jim - I appreciate your heartfelt concerns and I wish you much future happiness.

And my name is Jeannie Stahl. Village of Collier.

[l2ridehd]

I think the biggest issue on TOTV is that what we say and what we write never seems to come out the same. Some attempts at humor are read by others as complaints. Some write about a major issue for them that is trivial to someone else. Some of us are always in a hurry and some of us never are.

We all have different reasons we do what we do and act as we act. And none of us are always effective at writing it down in a way that everyone reading it can understand what we really mean.

I remember a management class exercise where the instructor had us all read a short paragraph in a book where the author set up his main character. Then we had to write our own description, swap them and read them. You would have thought we all read something different.

I am sure it's the same on here. What we mean when we write is not how everyone else reads it.

So as correct as your original post is about developer bashing, perhaps we should all take it with a grain of salt and assume the issue is less then the words we read.

And if you really want to see digression of opinion, go read a few roundabout threads. Now those will really scare you.

[tainsley]

Good morning everybody! This place I call home is not perfect but it is pretty darn close! So glad my hubby dragged me down here four years ago! I love all TV has to offer, it's beauty, and the people I have met from all over the US and abroad! And at this point in my life I had no clue I would have met so many "new" friends! Oh...and my golf cart!

[Cedwards38]

(1) The main thing we learned here on TOTV is that the human population in The Villages, as in the rest of the world, is diverse. We all see things differently, based on our values, emotions, and experiences.
(2) I learn a lot from TOTV, including information about TV that is very helpful. Occasionally I even buy stuff that is being sold. :-)
(3) There are some who post incredibly negative things, and others who post incredibly positive things. And I actually agree with some of them. :-)
(4) TOTV is not TV. Of the nearly 100K who live here, only a very small sample posts on TOTV.
(5) I love The Villages, and don't want to live anywhere else, and I wish we would always be nice, but I know we won't always be. Anyone is entitled to be negative, and I'm entitled to agree or disagree, but I won't let that disagreement turn me sour on this wonderful community.

[Bogie Shooter]

You are correct I really should not have mentioned the Trophy Wife .
She was and for 10 years . I came home a few hours early after my 5 Sate " fair-well " tour to my 500 associates I managed and found her and her personal trainer doing some very special exercises in our bedroom .

Turned out he was not her " only " Now that I have been in Court for nearly 7 years and am pretty much broke I have become a bit sensitive about it .
Especially the part where she refuses to allow me to see our daughter for now over 3 1/2 years .
I went to Court over that matter and the Judge said " I am reserving my Decision " that was over 3 years ago and he still refuses to issue a Decision .
So yeah I guess that makes me a bit testy .
By the way her lawyer who will only handle women and is a woman made sure during our Trial to let the Judge know exactly which political party I was an active member of even though my lovely wife was also a registered member and active fundraiser for the same party . And she also told a close mutual friend " I`m going to retire off this case . I want him to have nothing left .
I had worked and saved and invested for 25 years before I married her . But I am pretty much cleaned out and the numbers are staggering
Since I came here from a Rust-Belt broken down City where fully 40% of the population is on some type of Gvt. transfer payment and the largest 3 employers in the community are State , federal and County you can probably pretty much connect the dots .

More information than necessary.

As to the OP I agree with most of what you said. Anyone that uses TOTV to make a lifelong decision about moving to Florida is a very shallow thinker. There is so much more information that is available.
Negative posters are so much a minority in TV. To read a handful of negative posts, usually from the same sour people, and assume that is how Villagers feel is a poor conclusion.
I like many posters have been "bashed" in the past. So be it, I just consider the source...............................

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Wow!! I am shocked!! The majority of people on this site are negative and complaining? They must all be here when I'm off line and then their post get deleted before I can read them.

I think that we have a wonderful community on this site with many positive friendly people. Sure there are a few gripers, but I just read a little ways down into their posts and usually ignore them.

I see that most people on here are very civil when they have reasonable disagreements and a few people point out some of the, very few, real problems that e have in the Villages.

Maybe it just depends on what you're looking for.

[Bogie Shooter]

Buffalo Jim - Gomoho here - I was taken aback when I read your comment about me so I went back to your old posts and what actually occurred was on a post about people not being provided internet access during their LSV you made reference to the fact that you couldn't believe so many people would be involved in such a "trivial matter". I respectfully asked you to butt out if it didn't interest you and allow us to discuss what we wanted to.

If I were a little more computer savvy I would post the entire dialogue for your reading pleasure and the fact you referred to me as a left wing cat lover that probably worked for the government. By the way - wrong on all counts.

Wow, Buffalo Jim, what say you?

[Taltarzac725]

Wow!! I am shocked!! The majority of people on this site are negative and complaining? They must all be here when I'm off line and then their post get deleted before I can read them.

I think that we have a wonderful community on this site with many positive friendly people. Sure there are a few gripers, but I just read a little ways down into their posts and usually ignore them.

I see that most people on here are very civil when they have reasonable disagreements and a few people point out some of the, very few, real problems that e have in the Villages.

Maybe it just depends on what you're looking for.

Not sure why anyone would just use TOTV to decide whether to move to the Villages or not. My parents came here to check it out on one of the Village's tours where they also put you up for a few nights. Cannot remember how much that cost back in 2005 but I will bet it was very reasonable. A few moths later, my older brother and his wife then checked out the Villages as well with my parents and they approved of the move. I could not wait to move out of Palm Harbor, FL to anywhere that would give me other opportunities as I had the year (2004) before received a Cease and Desist order from the Palm Harbor Library General Counsel threatening me with a lawsuit as well as a blackball from volunteering. I had volunteered at Palm Harbor's 2 public libraries for from 10-14 hours per week from Fall of 2000 through late Summer of 2003. This was all about my fight to get a link to the Florida Victim Services Directory from the Palm Harbor Library website. http://myfloridalegal.com/directory The Director of the Palm Harbor Library Gene Coppola insisted that there was a working link. I said there was not as did the Palm Harbor Library Reference Staff I spoke to at that time. Gene Coppola at that time was also the Chairman of the Palm Harbor Board of Commerce.

I took my cause to a new location. Gary Corsair of the Villages Daily Sun covered my efforts to get Villages' area libraries hooked up to the Florida Victim Services Directory. This was on about May 31, 2007. Have had success with this off-and- on since 2007 in the Villages. IT is UP on TOTV!!! http://myfloridalegal.com/directory

We all have baggage when we move from somewhere else. It depends though on how much we want to keep in the bag and how much we want to show other people. Not sure if I would want to drag out dirty underwear, though. We all certainly have had some.

[DaleMN]

Well....I think...oh, never mind. :doh:

[CFrance]

I appreciate this dialoge. I am new to this site. I do like it because it can be very informative, especially when you are new to The Villages. I just bought my house in September and I am renting it, so I appreciate the problems that may arise so I don't panic when it does happen...example I read about the plumbing problems in Collier (where my house is) so when my tenant wrote to tell me there was a plumbing problem, I was aware of it and didn't panic. On the other hand, I have posted a couple of questions and some of the responses were very sarcastic and ridiculing. I have been quite shy to post other questions I have. So thank you for bringing attention to sarcastic responders, I've actually been considering doing that myself.

Mixsonsi, Please don't be shy about asking questions. Just remember, like another poster said, there are all kinds of personalities in TV and on TOTV, and you might get all sorts of answers. Just ignore the sarcasm and ridicule and focus on the answers that might be of help.

Sometimes I wonder if it's better to ask questions in the morning, before happy hour has taken place! :ohdear:

[tainsley]

Yes we all have baggage...good and bad. That is a part of our histories and that is what brought each one of us to the point we are in our lives.

[Cisco Kid]

Buffalo Jim - Gomoho here - I was taken aback when I read your comment about me so I went back to your old posts and what actually occurred was on a post about people not being provided internet access during their LSV you made reference to the fact that you couldn't believe so many people would be involved in such a "trivial matter". I respectfully asked you to butt out if it didn't interest you and allow us to discuss what we wanted to.

If I were a little more computer savvy I would post the entire dialogue for your reading pleasure and the fact you referred to me as a left wing cat lover that probably worked for the government. By the way - wrong on all counts.

:doggie:

[Taltarzac725]

Well....I think...oh, never mind. :doh:

Your Nietzsche quote seems very appropriate to this thread.


"That which does not destroy you, makes you stronger- Nietzsche"


Would like to add one-- "Don't sort your dirty underwear in public unless you want others to know you sometimes wear Depends!" Taltarzac and Taltarzac725. Both are me. I like to remain anonymous as my work trying to help survivors/victims of crimes has been international since 1992 or so and I have made some enemies because of this. My father, for instance, did not want me to copy the Gary Corsair article from The Villages Daily Sun from Memorial Day 2007 and send it to all of my various contacts because of events in Palm Harbor and elsewhere.

[redwitch]

BJ, you certainly tarred us with a very heavy brush. Yes, there are some that whine and some that complain and some that are downright mean. Some have even been picked on (usually with good reason but not always).

TV isn't perfect. The Morses aren't perfect. There are real issues and concerns. Some of us can express those issues and concerns in an objective tone, some can't. Emotions get in the way far too often.

For every negative post, there are three positive posts. For every PM you get, there will be three others who have not responded publicly or privately and may agree with some of what you've said but not all of it.

Yes, there are complaints about things that seem petty to some. They are not petty to the poster and should be given the same respect and consideration given to something that involves all of us. Sadly, that is not always the case. Hopefully, this thread will be a reminder to not be so quick to put someone in their place, whether a first-time poster or someone who's been around forever.

As for me, I'll bash the developer when I feel he needs bashing. Some of his practices are petty and greedy (sorry, Gracie). Some of his practices are loving and giving. The Morses are very acute businessmen and have earned my respect in that regard. I still want to witch slap 'em for some of their decisions. Regardless, TV is a beautiful place to live.

As to the bashing of posters, I don't like it but it is part of human nature. Some just bring out the worst in others. Gracie gets her hackles up every time someone disses TV or the developer, especially if they're newbies. I get my hackles up when I see someone being mean -- whether it is an OP or a response. Who knows what gets your hackles up.

One of the things that makes this place so special is the people that live here. They give willingly not only of their money but of themselves. They smile at strangers, help anyone who seems to be lost, go out of their way to be kind to others. Many here do leave their doors unlocked all the time and keys in cars and carts even at the squares. As a whole, we're a trusting lot.

So, you can choose to see only the negative posts or only the positive posts or, better yet, you can take the effort to see all the posts. When you do that (ignoring the for sale posts), you'll see that there is a lot more happiness here than you'd think.

[vlm790]

Jim you are a very bright man. I agree with your post completely !!!

[Bruiser1]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

I think you give too much credence to the "upset" people.
I have found most people are pleased /extremely pleased with this community. There is everything for everybody here IFF (if and only if) you are eager to experience it. If you want to be disgruntled and you are willing to work 8-14 hours of non stop searching you will find something to upset you.

There was a beautiful ceremony to honor Veterans( myself included). It was well intended and moving. I was moved as We celebrated the greatest country in the world .
I can honestly say it was one the proudest days of my life.

But you would have to leave the comfort of your house and brave sub 80's temperatures.

[OBXNana]

As with many posts, there are areas I agree and disagree with in this persons observation. Simply my opinion. What we have gained from this site is educational. When we finally get to purchase in TV we have learned from the great people that post their experiences. We have a list of home inspectors, landscape people, furniture stores, and too many to mention. What better way to find a contractor than from people that have first hand knowledge. Yes, part of our decision to buy is found on this site. We don't want to google a home inspector, but rather to find one that has a good reputation within the community. I thank those that share their knowledge.

If people would post without making personal attacks I would be more comfortable. If you don't agree with a post, ignore it. But, human nature goes into attack mode when there's a difference of opinion. Discuss the idea and not attack the person giving their opinion.

[festusrules]

Guess I have been too busy having fun instead of reading negative posts about a place which provides so many activities for retirees. :a040:

[peggyb]

Amen to that!

[Taltarzac725]

BJ, you certainly tarred us with a very heavy brush. Yes, there are some that whine and some that complain and some that are downright mean. Some have even been picked on (usually with good reason but not always).

TV isn't perfect. The Morses aren't perfect. There are real issues and concerns. Some of us can express those issues and concerns in an objective tone, some can't. Emotions get in the way far too often.

For every negative post, there are three positive posts. For every PM you get, there will be three others who have not responded publicly or privately and may agree with some of what you've said but not all of it.

Yes, there are complaints about things that seem petty to some. They are not petty to the poster and should be given the same respect and consideration given to something that involves all of us. Sadly, that is not always the case. Hopefully, this thread will be a reminder to not be so quick to put someone in their place, whether a first-time poster or someone who's been around forever.

As for me, I'll bash the developer when I feel he needs bashing. Some of his practices are petty and greedy (sorry, Gracie). Some of his practices are loving and giving. The Morses are very acute businessmen and have earned my respect in that regard. I still want to witch slap 'em for some of their decisions. Regardless, TV is a beautiful place to live.

As to the bashing of posters, I don't like it but it is part of human nature. Some just bring out the worst in others. Gracie gets her hackles up every time someone disses TV or the developer, especially if they're newbies. I get my hackles up when I see someone being mean -- whether it is an OP or a response. Who knows what gets your hackles up.

One of the things that makes this place so special is the people that live here. They give willingly not only of their money but of themselves. They smile at strangers, help anyone who seems to be lost, go out of their way to be kind to others. Many here do leave their doors unlocked all the time and keys in cars and carts even at the squares. As a whole, we're a trusting lot.

So, you can choose to see only the negative posts or only the positive posts or, better yet, you can take the effort to see all the posts. When you do that (ignoring the for sale posts), you'll see that there is a lot more happiness here than you'd think.

I do like to hear other opinions about life in the Villages. Most of the people I have talked to about TOTV have never heard of it. I still doubt that many of these people even bother to check it out as they are so busy enjoying what the Morse family has made accessible for them here in the Villages.

[Bonnevie]

having experienced a bit of "piling on" at one time, I now tread lightly in posting. many times have typed something, thought about it, and deleted it. I try to avoid reading totally bashing posts. Want to know legitimate problems with contractors, etc. take all restaurant criticisms with a grain of salt as I've dealt with the public and know there are usually two sides to a story. Also, I'm pretty easy to please culinary-wise. Anything I don't have to cook tastes good to me.

[Shirleevee]

Guess I have been too busy having fun instead of reading negative posts about a place which provides so many activities for retirees. :a040:

Amen/Awoman to Paradise!!!!:bigbow:

[patfla06]

I am so sorry to hear about the nightmare you have and are going through with your ex.
I don't care if the wife is of several decades, no one should want to wipe the other one out.

I don't think people get "jumped on" for positive posts but for saying ANYTHING
That isn't. Someone posted a legitimate gripe about her neighbors putting their garbage out the day before and not only got no sympathy but jumped on.

The usual response (besides jokes, ha, ha, let's gang up) is to say:
...if this is your biggest problem.......

I understand we're all trying our best and want to enjoy our retirement.
That does not mean we stop caring about what's going on around us.

[dillywho]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

Terrific post!

That being said, I think much of the "bitching" about the driving of others, relates to the safety of all of us. I've done it, too, in hopes that the offending driver would see it and take note (probably not, though).

As to the Developers, you are so right. He took the risk and it paid off. Who would have been hurt had it not? That's right....them. In turn, we would have the privilege (yes, privilege) of enjoying what we have here. Businesses are in business to make money, not provide for others at no cost. That's why they call it "business". Yet, they are accused at every turn of being "greedy" just as many other successful businesses are. Each of us is free to take our business elsewhere whether it be a restaurant, entertainment event, sports event, or where we choose to live.

Thanks for pointing out much of what needs to be addressed.:mademyday:

[billethkid]

there are thousands and thousands of posts placed here every single day all well meaning and good intentioned.

There are times when some have a negative stance....which may be either their position.....or....how some THINK they interpret it.

So with 99%+ for the good.....WHY do some insist making it sound like the forum is a scary, negative, beat 'em up, etc site?????

Minority positions are always welcome however, I prefer to stick with the higher percentage participants.

btk

[Buffalo Jim]

Buffalo Jim - Gomoho here - I was taken aback when I read your comment about me so I went back to your old posts and what actually occurred was on a post about people not being provided internet access during their LSV you made reference to the fact that you couldn't believe so many people would be involved in such a "trivial matter". I respectfully asked you to butt out if it didn't interest you and allow us to discuss what we wanted to.

If I were a little more computer savvy I would post the entire dialogue for your reading pleasure and the fact you referred to me as a left wing cat lover that probably worked for the government. By the way - wrong on all counts.

I did and thank you very much .

[skyguy79]

I don't think we're "pro-developer" as much as we are pro productivity, pro solvency, pro visionary, pro job-producing, pro revitalization, pro community, pro hometown atmosphere, pro consumer confidence, pro housing market, pro new local healthcare model which he's financing, etc.

Our support is in the goals and results accomplished well, not in a purveyor of ideology that results in little or no practicality.I kept looking for a like button for this post, but finding none I had to provide my own!

http://www.tellitmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/like-button-e1332744588244.jpg

[Indydealmaker]

I like to think that many "negative" posts are mistakenly perceived in that manner. It is not as easy to convey your intent with the written word as it is to get your message across face to face.

However, when a poster responds to a "first person" report by saying: "I don't believe that happened." or "that is BS!", the message is clear. The writer is calling his neighbor a liar. That kind of personal attack is not a misperception and should not be tolerated on a "Community Forum" such as this.

[dillywho]

I like to think that many "negative" posts are mistakenly perceived in that manner. It is not as easy to convey your intent with the written word as it is to get your message across face to face.

However, when a poster responds to a "first person" report by saying: "I don't believe that happened." or "that is BS!", the message is clear. The writer is calling his neighbor a liar. That kind of personal attack is not a misperception and should not be tolerated on a "Community Forum" such as this.

You are right. And sometimes, even if it is "second-hand", that does not mean it is not accurate. People often relate to others what happened to them. What you "hear" is not always rumor or someone looking to start a rumor. I take those posts as just attempting to be helpful.

[Cajulian]

Hi Buffalo Jim.

This truly is a great place. As long as you stay in the confines of The Villages it is very much Utopia.

By the way, I am from Batavia and had offices in Rochester for many years.

How about them Bills?? The best years with Kelly and the Gang are long gone.

Keep up the positive attitude it keeps life very sane.

Charlie J

[Buffalo Jim]

Thanks for all of the interest . There have been many posts and views so apparently my observations have resonated with many .
Also I have now received about 20 PMs citing the same concerns about the " tonality " of the general day to day discussion .
Two of the of the PMs are from " sponsors " who indicate that they will soon be " former sponsors "
I think that the weight of the opinions expressed comes in heavily in alignment with my concerns that this site is dominated by " carping ".
However one important aspect I wish to point out ---- I didn`t say " total and complete animus " in my title to the Thread . I said " Why so much animus on this site " ? I still stand by what I postulated . The overall tone when " all the votes are counted " lines up more on the " negative and biting " . Once those thoughts are piled up then in come the few who seek very carefully to suggest a more positive perspective .
Please understand I have been observing this for over 2 years and for the most part I have stayed away from jumping in .
Yes , I went off point and aired some as writers have called it " dirty laundry ". Doing so was off the subject and point I was attempting to share and detracted from my overall argument .
To all of you who have taken the time to read my lengthy original post and to comment
either in disagreement or agreement and those who read but have not commented I thank you .
I have succeeded in bringing up what is a topic that apparently many felt should be explored and I proffered my observations .
Now with the above accomplished I will do my best to " butt out " / stand down on this matter but continue to observe what others might have to share .

[lightworker888]

Just came across a neat saying that I thought I'd share.

It doesn't matter if the glass is half empty or half full.......Be grateful that you have a glass.


Have to say I love TV and am still in awe of the fact that all this was created in such a short time by one man and his family and they are still running it so smoothly from behind the scenes. It really is magical. My glass gets filled every day and I am truly grateful..


LW888 (Joyanne)

[manaboutown]

Back in 2011 as a single man I found TOTV invaluable in preparing to visit The Villages for an extended stay. In addition to learning about the infrastructure of the community, its amenities, clubs and activities a couple of delightful ladies signed on to meet me and introduce me to many other people, which they did. All in all I found my time in The Villages a wonderful experience starting with the man walking his dog who welcomed me to The Villages as I got out of my rental car in front of the house I was renting at 9:30 pm. Since literally everyone is from somewhere else wherever I went people wanted to talk and get to know me.

However, I will say that over the last few years the weighting of the various types of postings has changed. In addition to more "for sale" postings, displeasures with restaurants, merchants and service companies as well as reports of traffic incidents and the like appear to me to be the trend. Currently TOTV feels more negative and certainly less interesting to me when I am checking threads and postings.

As for your divorce experience I offer you my condolences. A very similar situation happened to a long time friend of mine although his wife of 37 years had long lost her trophy status. Upon his retirement he wanted to take a month long trip to Italy with her. She refused to go. When he returned she had moved out lock, stock and barrel and left no forwarding address, just credit card bills for a new wardrobe including a lot of intimate apparel. Although he was both emotionally and financially devastated (given the current trends in the court system) he moved on, eventually remarried and is today one very happy 75 year old man.

[jimmy D]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!

Jim Keep on trucking partner, maybe the chronic complainers will move and sell out for a better community (where would that be I ask?)

[Barefoot]

In my humble opinion, dark threads like this one only encourage members to turn on each other, point fingers, and complain about each other.

[casita37]

(1) The main thing we learned here on TOTV is that the human population in The Villages, as in the rest of the world, is diverse. We all see things differently, based on our values, emotions, and experiences.
(2) I learn a lot from TOTV, including information about TV that is very helpful. Occasionally I even buy stuff that is being sold. :-)
(3) There are some who post incredibly negative things, and others who post incredibly positive things. And I actually agree with some of them. :-)
(4) TOTV is not TV. Of the nearly 100K who live here, only a very small sample posts on TOTV.
(5) I love The Villages, and don't want to live anywhere else, and I wish we would always be nice, but I know we won't always be. Anyone is entitled to be negative, and I'm entitled to agree or disagree, but I won't let that disagreement turn me sour on this wonderful community.

Excellent, and I agree with everything except I am not in love with TV. I don't actually dislike it, but I could live somewhere else. I would prefer a smaller community. My husband is set to be a frog here, so we stay.

[Bucco]

In my humble opinion, dark threads like this one only encourage members to turn on each other, point fingers, and complain about each other.

Not sure why you would call this thread "dark" ! A man expressed his opinion and that is what these forums are supposed to be about.

There are rules on every forum about what can and cannot be posted. Anyone who finds a post "negative" just is stating they disagree and in fact their presentation is what makes negativity. So many are remiss to give an opinion with facts to back up why they say what they say.

Not sure what "turns on each other means" either. If that means others do not agree with you...ok...say that. It is NOT negative to disagree, however to the OPs point.....this place has become negative and much of it is because if someone posts a thought another poster does not agree with, it is deemed negative, when in fact they just do not agree with you.

That unamed forum, as bad as the moderators and others think it was, did not hold a candle to the way people are treated on the mainstream, good guy forums BUT they are deemed ok.

Sorry...it just amazes me that you can call the developer of this community a crook, a cheat, money hungry, etc, but you cannot comment on a senator who is making law. You can point out any error he makes in anyway, but cannot discuss the lawmaker not paying taxes or some other offense.

There IS a difference here in the last year of so...big time. You can not discuss politics of our country but you CAN tear down the developer, or anyone else for that matter.

[Challenger]

My opinion=

Don't really care if postings are positive or negative if they are based on facts. There are too many rants and statements based on incomplete 3rd and 4th hand info and is some cases devoid of anything like common sense.This type of post creates wrong impressions , and can be very damaging to people and organizations.

Faccts ,either positive or negative, are worth vigarous discourse. Spreading rumors intentionally fo support your position is dishonesty at its' worst

[casita37]

Bucco, you may be onto something. Perhaps since the political forum has been closed, people try to disguise their views, working them into their posts. Not sure I'm saying this well, but I do see posts where it's pretty obvious the posters slant on a political issue. A bunch of anonymous people talking politics is never going to be pretty.

[Taltarzac725]

In my humble opinion, dark threads like this one only encourage members to turn on each other, point fingers, and complain about each other.

This is a rather dark thread as the OP seems to brag about receiving private messages from sponsors who he claims are leaving TOTV because of threads like this one.

Thanks for all of the interest . There have been many posts and views so apparently my observations have resonated with many .
Also I have now received about 20 PMs citing the same concerns about the " tonality " of the general day to day discussion .
Two of the of the PMs are from " sponsors " who indicate that they will soon be " former sponsors "
I think that the weight of the opinions expressed comes in heavily in alignment with my concerns that this site is dominated by " carping ".
However one important aspect I wish to point out ---- I didn`t say " total and complete animus " in my title to the Thread . I said " Why so much animus on this site " ? I still stand by what I postulated . The overall tone when " all the votes are counted " lines up more on the " negative and biting " . Once those thoughts are piled up then in come the few who seek very carefully to suggest a more positive perspective .
Please understand I have been observing this for over 2 years and for the most part I have stayed away from jumping in .
Yes , I went off point and aired some as writers have called it " dirty laundry ". Doing so was off the subject and point I was attempting to share and detracted from my overall argument .
To all of you who have taken the time to read my lengthy original post and to comment
either in disagreement or agreement and those who read but have not commented I thank you .
I have succeeded in bringing up what is a topic that apparently many felt should be explored and I proffered my observations .
Now with the above accomplished I will do my best to " butt out " / stand down on this matter but continue to observe what others might have to share .

__________________

[Bucco]

This is a rather dark thread as the OP seems to brag about receiving private messages from sponsors who he claims are leaving TOTV because of threads like this one.

I have had similiar notes and folks have left who sent them. I just chose not to post that information....he has every right to post that. That is not dark....just stating what is happening

[Taltarzac725]

I have had similiar notes and folks have left who sent them. I just chose not to post that information....he has every right to post that. That is not dark....just stating what is happening

A sponsor leaving is little different from someone not particularly liking TOTV. I have received some of those too. But for however many people decide this site is not for them, it seems a lot of other people log on for this first time. Graciegirl and others often welcome these people with open arms and they usually stay.

[Bucco]

A sponsor leaving is little different from someone not particularly liking TOTV. I have received some of those too. But for however many people decide this site is not for them, it seems a lot of other people log on for this first time. Graciegirl and others often welcome these people with open arms and they usually stay.

I will not and cannot disagree with you in anything you say.

I simply responded when you called it a dark post because the man said he go those emails. Opinion...opinon..it DOES happen no matter what you might say and I chose not to make it public

[Bucco]

Bucco, you may be onto something. Perhaps since the political forum has been closed, people try to disguise their views, working them into their posts. Not sure I'm saying this well, but I do see posts where it's pretty obvious the posters slant on a political issue. A bunch of anonymous people talking politics is never going to be pretty.

You are ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY CORRECT in what you say. It is really not that hard to spot, and it is done each single day on here, with very little interference.

[billethkid]

"dark threads"????

"Pack dog attacks"????

WOW!!

:popcorn::popcorn:

btk

[Bucco]

My opinion=

Don't really care if postings are positive or negative if they are based on facts. There are too many rants and statements based on incomplete 3rd and 4th hand info and is some cases devoid of anything like common sense.This type of post creates wrong impressions , and can be very damaging to people and organizations.

Faccts ,either positive or negative, are worth vigarous discourse. Spreading rumors intentionally fo support your position is dishonesty at its' worst

THIS POST, among them all is perhaps the single most important.

Used to be on this site, in any discussion, everything was based on facts...NEVER rumors...NEVER conjecture, especially when speaking of others. This used to be part of the "laws" of TOTV and strictly enforced. It appears you may say what you want about others with no link....basically, no credibility. Opinions are one thing.....just saying stuff is another

[Taltarzac725]

THIS POST, among them all is perhaps the single most important.

Used to be on this site, in any discussion, everything was based on facts...NEVER rumors...NEVER conjecture, especially when speaking of others. This used to be part of the "laws" of TOTV and strictly enforced. It appears you may say what you want about others with no link....basically, no credibility. Opinions are one thing.....just saying stuff is another

I pretty much always have a link to stuff I put on and if not it is very easy to research whatever I put on yourself. I have always been very big on linking and often would get questioning about actually doing it too much by Talk Host and his buddies when he was on here. They wanted more Talk and less facts IMHO.

And if someone is telling about stories from their own experiences I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Bogie Shooter]

"dark threads"????

"Pack dog attacks"????

WOW!!

:popcorn::popcorn:

btk

Pretty impressive, huh?

[Jayhawk]

Here are some FACTS that I am 100% sure of:

1. We loved TV so much we bought on our first visit.
2. I retire in 40 days (12/31/13) and will head that way shortly after.
3. The Kansas Jayhawks are ranked #2 and beat Duke last week.
4. Gracie is so awesome I'd tune in every day if she was the only poster.
5. I thank the developer and all their employees for building and maintaing this paradise.
6. There are about 100,000 residents and probably less than 25 who are nearly always negative.
7. Everyone we met on our 2 trips so far has been absolutely amazing.
8. Gilchrist looks like it will be a great neighborhood (already is).
9. Did I mention we love TV?
10. I / we / you can live anywhere we choose. If someone doesn't like TV, sell to someone who does. Everybody wins that way.


And now, back to my countdown :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[Bucco]

I pretty much always have a link to stuff I put on and if not it is very easy to research whatever I put on yourself. I have always been very big on linking and often would get questioning about actually doing it too much by Talk Host and his buddies when he was on here. They wanted more Talk and less facts IMHO.

And if someone is telling about stories from their own experiences I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, TalkHost wanted you to link everything, BUT he wanted your input on the discussion and not USE a link as the entire post

[Bucco]

Unfortunately, someone can't even share a personal experience at a restaurant without at least half a dozen posters interrogating them, doubting them, asking why they are posting, and flat out calling them a liar if they don't immediately produce 3 witnesses. The definition of rumor has been stretched to the point that people don't even want to post a personal experience.

Well I certainly was not referring to some personal experience, but folks who just say things.

I tend to ignore posters who obviously have vivid imaginations, and if I feel someone has lied, forget it..worse thing ever lying.

[Sagitarius 6]

Ok . Here goes after living here for now 2+ years and observing this site everyday I am just going to put myself " out there " and say it .

I only can hope and pray that I remain strong enough to deal with what will be coming back at me .

I relocated here from the Buffalo Ny area just over 2 years ago . I learned about the Villages when an old friend had decided to retire here after losing his wife to cancer . He came here after a couple of years in Texas . I came down to help him move in in July of 2010 and discovered for myself that it was / is a most amazing place .

As a life long Northern resident I never really considered moving to Florida full time . However having recently gone through an ugly and painful divorce from my Trophy wife who is much younger and had no more use for me 2 weeks after I retired I felt that perhaps this would be the right place for me .

I was well known in my area and involved in many charities and was still very active but the pain was too much .

Had I been aware of this site and read it for any period of time I most likely would have thought several times about moving here . This is the truth .
Had I judged the Villages through the " prism " of constant complaining and warnings about this and that day after day I would have thought --- " humm this must not be what I seem to see through my eyes ".
Why are the majority of people who post here so miffed , unhappy , sarcastic and seemingly just so miserable ???
Why do so many people harbor such animosity toward the Developer ?
There are so many other choices of retirement communities in Florida . Why would those who seem to be so unhappy stay . Homes sell quickly here and prices have been quite strong so why stay ?
Why do so many people " pile on " when someone posts pretty much anything positive about the Villages . Why ?
Perhaps it is because the writers can do so anonymously . I can`t help wonder what the landscape on this site would look like if everyone had to post their real name .
Just for what it is worth " The Buffalo News " -- when it went online allowed people to post with a handle . The remarks were amazingly caustic . After a year of much ugliness they changed their policy and one could only post under their own name . And yes , one had to go through a process to verify their name before being allowed to post . WOW what a sudden change in overall attitude and the quality of the comments !!!!
NOw back to the Developer . I was in commercial banking for 35 years and a senior exec for 20 of those years . For a few years I was a lender and then managed a lending team . I can say with great confidence that the Developer could have easily spent half as much as they have on the amenities in the Villages and even pocketed more money than they have and are . Seriously , they could have taken a much lower road than they have elected to .
Sometimes I conclude that despite what people express that they feel about our country being a land of unlimited opportunity for those with a better idea and the willingness to take a risk that the majority do not really feel that way .
Because if they meant it they would not begrudge the Developer of " his / their " success . However on this site day in and day out they do .
Some people take a huge risk in business and fail . We generally all know that 80% of all new business ventures fail .
There is a reason why 95% of us elected to make our living by working for others . I had a saying while I was working my 60 hour weeks and it went like this : " The majority of people would like to see their children become an exec at a large company but the same people hate the success of large companies ".
Think about it for just a minute . How many who are so quick to trash the Developer and any other business operating here ever ran a business and put your living at risk ?
You should be sending this family thank you cards and saluting them . They are not evil . They are the embodiment of the American Dream .
I am certain that you are each concerned about the value of your homes but stop to think about the message about this community that many of you put out in public view day after day . The message is pretty much --- STAY AWAY !
My God -- a woman posted on here this week that she had a problem with a driver who she insisted was on their way to a Sarah Palin autograph . Really !!
I have a great driving record and I obey the speed limit . I have lost track of how many times I have been the victim of what I call " predatory driving " along with the " angry Male salute . You teach that to your grand-children ? Grow Up . I feel sorry for your spouses . How many years have they suffered ?
So continue to bitch about every dining experience --- too hot , too cold .
Wet all over the Mens Room , toss your wet paper towels on the floor and blame the owner who is no doubt struggling to recoup his / her investment .And then complain that more business do not wish to come here . Do you think that an astute business person or company does not take note ? Really ?
I wish that I knew demographically where most of the bitching is coming from . I can only hope that it is not from " The Greatest Generation ". Frankly I suspect that much of it might just be from my so called generation " The Baby Boomers " who brought this country not much but whining and doing the least for the most and giving not much in return .
So here goes .
Have at It !!!
BRAVO!!! You said it so much better than I could. I totally agree with you. It is sad that some people are so unhappy in such a beautiful place. There is so much to be grateful for living here. Be Happy folks life is very short......

[billethkid]

Here are some FACTS that I am 100% sure of:

1. We loved TV so much we bought on our first visit.
2. I retire in 40 days (12/31/13) and will head that way shortly after.
3. The Kansas Jayhawks are ranked #2 and beat Duke last week.
4. Gracie is so awesome I'd tune in every day if she was the only poster.
5. I thank the developer and all their employees for building and maintaing this paradise.
6. There are about 100,000 residents and probably less than 25 who are nearly always negative.
7. Everyone we met on our 2 trips so far has been absolutely amazing.
8. Gilchrist looks like it will be a great neighborhood (already is).
9. Did I mention we love TV?
10. I / we / you can live anywhere we choose. If someone doesn't like TV, sell to someone who does. Everybody wins that way.


And now, back to my countdown :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

And a person need not know much more than that. Perfect attitude toward TV and TOTV...you have it pegged right with the 25 out of 100,000 (sad part is the 25 get to much air/type time!!).

Aren't count downs exciting when something this special is on the horizon!!!!!

btk

[Bogie Shooter]

Unfortunately, someone can't even share a personal experience at a restaurant without at least half a dozen posters interrogating them, doubting them, asking why they are posting, and flat out calling them a liar if they don't immediately produce 3 witnesses. The definition of rumor has been stretched to the point that people don't even want to post a personal experience.

Some restaurant posters with silly concerns are just whiners!:ohdear:

[TheVillageChicken]

Guy starts a negative themed post about negative posts in hopes of getting negative reactions and succeeds. Well done, BJ.

[Big O]

You forgot to mention that he works for the Developer and was following his instructions by posting.

[Bucco]

You forgot to mention that he works for the Developer and was following his instructions by posting.

As I mentioned before...

people who just say things

[Happydaz]

Lively discussions are started by subjects that resonate with people. Anyone who thinks this was not an important post only needs to see the number of responses.

[kittygilchrist]

Guy starts a negative themed post about negative posts in hopes of getting negative reactions and succeeds. Well done, BJ.

Girls, have you notice the antler bumping? Where's the icon for that?:MOJE_whot: ok, that's not quite the icon I had in mind...

[NotGolfer]

Lively discussions are started by subjects that resonate with people. Anyone who thinks this was not an important post only needs to see the number of responses.

I agree with you AND I also agree with the OP!!! :bigbow:

[Big O]

As I mentioned before...

people who just say things
That's your perspective. Just because something is not relevant to you does not mean it is not relevant.

[BETHPAGE BLACK]

Jim, I learned that people who complain, moan and groan and whine, will do so wherever they live. We are fortunate to live in a UTOPIA and people still find fault! I love your comment saying we should salute the developer and I have always felt that way. There are many of us who feel this way, yet we are the nice quiet people and you know what they say about the squeeky wheel!
Choose your friends here wisely, choose those whose ethics are similar to yours.

[kittygilchrist]

Well, Jim, have all these posts changed your mind at all or precisely demonstrated your position? Tell me whether you see happening here exactly as your OP declares with this exception....many, many people expressed empathy and warmth at a surprising level.... in keeping with your genuinely open-hearted disclosure?
Kitty

[Buffalo Jim]

Kitty : Earlier today I had indicated that I was going to bow out however I do not wish to ignore your question .
Yes , I have been pleasantly surprised at those who have been willing to really consider the intent of my question and its context .
Even more surprising has been the number of strongly supportive PMs I have received .
Many of the PMs were from women and men who identified themselves as retired lawyers , educators , engineers , business owners and business managers . Their comments were well constructed .
However the dominating theme was that these folks and I can only project many more are not willing to add to the discourse because of either their past treatment or their observation with respect to how they most likely treated .
Indeed some referred to this as site dominated by about 20 people who have formed their own " Club " and are not particularly open to the opinions of others and who often seem to be completely dismissive of the opinions and observations of those not in " The Club " .
I received 3 PMs that were quite sad from people who could really use this site for some emotional support and a chance to become a more frequent poster but each felt that they were gleefully abused by the " put down " / Sarcastic / Caustic personal attacks of others .
At the right time I will share a true story of what happened a few years ago to a very successful and close friend of mine who suffered the anonymous online attacks of cowards who enjoyed piling on . That tragedy is at the basis for my speaking out about the attacks on this site which are too often directed at the posters who are not members of the select few .

[casita37]

The other side of the coin is that some people ARE overly sensitive, and so often people mis-read a post. Very often I read a post, then read someone's response to that post and realize the responder didn't understand the other's post. Happens all the time. Guilty myself. I have answered a question just to then figure out that was NOT the question being asked. Even some of our most respected member do it. We're all human.

I don't mean this to sound mean, or hurtful, to anyone, but if a little cyber bullying on a public forum, when the bullier doesn't even know who you are, is a big problem, then perhaps one should explore other venues. There are many, many blog sites and forums pertaining to just about any support a person needs.

This thread might make a few people think about what they are saying and try to be kinder and gentler, but you can take it to the bank, very soon this will be forgotten and back to business as usual. It is a known fact that people will relay a negative experience many times more than a positive experience. It's not Villagers. It's human nature. Not fair? Nope, but who said life is fair?

[manaboutown]

Jim, there are a handful of wack job VERY frequent posters whose far too predictable posts I simply ignore since I recognize their screen names. You may want to do the same.

They seem to be unhappy people trying to spread their outlooks on life.

[PaPaLarry]

So nice to see so many people here in The Villages that are so caring and understanding. Thanks to Buffalo Jim, we have a better understanding, what some other people feel, who shy away from really giving their opinion, because of retaliation. This thread opened minds of good people, and gave them strength to respond. It would be so nice if we helped each other each day, and continue to bring smiles to everyone's face. Hopefully this thread will just do that. Being kinder to each other, will only make it to another "Beautiful Day in The Villages" each day.

[graciegirl]

So nice to see so many people here in The Villages that are so caring and understanding. Thanks to Buffalo Jim, we have a better understanding, what some other people feel, who shy away from really giving their opinion, because of retaliation. This thread opened minds of good people, and gave them strength to respond. It would be so nice if we helped each other each day, and continue to bring smiles to everyone's face. Hopefully this thread will just do that. Being kinder to each other, will only make it to another "Beautiful Day in The Villages" each day.


You are right once more PapaLarry. There are far fewer days ahead than I have left behind and that is so for most of us. It isn't wise to waste them on being stressed or angry. There is already way too much trouble in the world.

I know you like to garden, and I like to draw and paint, many can sing or make music and some enjoy active sports while others enjoy their pets and quiet activities. There is a lot to do and lots of really great people to do it with. We had a gathering of girls this week, shared some wonderful food and not one nasty thing was said about anybody. We had a good share of laughs and had the most wonderful time. With that group, I could watch paint dry and love every second of it.

[Taltarzac725]

Actually, TalkHost wanted you to link everything, BUT he wanted your input on the discussion and not USE a link as the entire post

Was not aware you were privy to private messages sent to me from Talk Host and other administrators and moderators from before the sale. They did want fewer links from me and more opinions. I am a trained librarian so I like to try to back my opinions up with references. Never was very good at just shooting the bull.

And, if it was just a link I was making reference to the link would often disprove whatever the person was hyping. You did have to read the link though. I know a lot of people seemed to just ignore whatever links I put up.

[2BNTV]

Let uys not grow weary while doing good, as we reap in due season, if we do not lose heart. Galatians 5:13.

GOD said, love one another, as I have loved you.

We are all here to help one another as GOD knows, we all need help.

Questions and Answers:
1. Have there been some episodes of people being offended, YES.
2. Have there been people who have helped other people. YES.
3. Has there been episode of the printed word being misunderstood. YES.
4. Has there been people who have made close friends on TOTV. YES.
5. Are ther chiques on TOTV. NO Just people who have grown close to other people, and are like minded. You have to be on this site a long time, to know who you want to be friends with. Does everyone hang out constantly. NO
6. Has there been people who been on TOTV and left, because they were so negative, and positive people ignored them. YES
7. Do you some people try to infuse humor on threads, because there are people who are responding, to what they see as a verbal threat and the thread is getting out of hand. YES
8. Will the admin step in to avoid the personal attacks. YES.
9. Do some people feel protective of this site and TV, because they love it. YES
10. In general, have people learn a lot about living in TV. YES.

It tends to run in cycles, as there are always some people who hide behind there screen names, and stir the pot, to see if they will get someone to bite, at their arrogance. The people who have their pictures printed, are the one's who have nothing to hide and generally like what this site, brings to the community.

I think it's perfectly natural for newer people to be sensitive, as they have been reading this site for a long time before starting to post. I try to be repectful of these new posters as they are overcoming some form of timidity.

Nuff said......... I will get down from my soapbox.

[CFrance]

Let uys not grow weary while doing good, as we reap in due season, if we do not lose heart. Galatians 5:13.

GOD said, love one another, as I have loved you.

We are all here to help one another as GOD knows, we all need help.

Questions and Answers:
1. Have there been some episodes of people being offended, YES.
2. Have there been people who have helped other people. YES.
3. Has there been episode of the printed word being misunderstood. YES.
4. Has there been people who have made close friends on TOTV. YES.
5. Are ther chiques on TOTV. NO Just people who have grown close to other people, and are like minded. You have to be on this site a long time, to know who you want to be friends with. Does everyone hang out constantly. NO
6. Has there been people who been on TOTV and left, because they were so negative, and positive people ignored them. YES
7. Do you some people try to infuse humor on threads, because there are people who are responding, to what they see as a verbal threat and the thread is getting out of hand. YES
8. Will the admin step in to avoid the personal attacks. YES.
9. Do some people feel protective of this site and TV, because they love it. YES
10. In general, have people learn a lot about living in TV. YES.

It tends to run in cycles, as there are always some people who hide behind there screen names, and stir the pot, to see if they will get someone to bite, at their arrogance. The people who have their pictures printed, are the one's who have nothing to hide and generally like what this site, brings to the community.

I think it's perfectly natural for newer people to be sensitive, as they have been reading this site for a long time before starting to post. I try to be repectful of these new posters as they are overcoming some form of timidity.

Nuff said......... I will get down from my soapbox.

Hey, I think you nailed it, 2B. Good post.

[Villager Dude]

The only reason why I have continued to review the postings on this site is to attempt to learn information which is useful however the level of negativity in my view seems to be at an all time high since I became a member 2 years ago . Thanks for having the courage to speak out . Jim

Jim,

I hope you get relief in the courts and get to see your daughter soon and often.

I appreciate your comments in support of the Developer.

In my opinion this is the best retirement location available that coincides with my desired lifestyle.

Each day I shake my head and am thankful there is such a place.

I would suspect the Developer or key staff do not spend anytime on this forum. They have other things to do to maintain this massive spot they have developed for us. They do an annual survey each year and use that to consider improvements in TV.

I do know that TV is not for everyone but there are so many that have made an investment here and taking full advantage of what it has to offer that it is mind boggling.

The statistics speak for themselves and while TV thrives others are struggling. There are many well thought procedures in place to insure TV will be maintained at the current level in perpetuity.

Life is Good

[Buffalo Jim]

You forgot to mention that he works for the Developer and was following his instructions by posting.

Nice try ! No I do not work for the Developer and I have never met the Developer but I would welcome the opportunity to meet him / them some time .

Successful business risk takers built this country .

[blue72]

Just what we need, a 10 paragraph complaint about people complaining.
:0000000000luvmyhors

Other than that, how was your day today?

DougB

Never stop!!!! You are my HERO

:bigbow:

[Golfingnut]

Was not aware you were privy to private messages sent to me from Talk Host and other administrators and moderators from before the sale. They did want fewer links from me and more opinions. I am a trained librarian so I like to try to back my opinions up with references. Never was very good at just shooting the bull.

And, if it was just a link I was making reference to the link would often disprove whatever the person was hyping. You did have to read the link though. I know a lot of people seemed to just ignore whatever links I put up.

FACT: I had a similar take and found it to be based on major national issues. Past owners made it very clear what podium was or was not allowed. I am happy to say that the current management/admin/monitors have me completely unaware of their gender/political preference/religion or even if they consume drugs or alcohol. :BigApplause:

[senior citizen]

Mixsonsi, Please don't be shy about asking questions. Just remember, like another poster said, there are all kinds of personalities in TV and on TOTV, and you might get all sorts of answers. Just ignore the sarcasm and ridicule and focus on the answers that might be of help.

Sometimes I wonder if it's better to ask questions in the morning, before happy hour has taken place! :ohdear:


I LOVE your last sentence.

I've often thought the same thing myself......that it might be the alcohol talking........and not the true thoughts of the poster. Seems that way.

[senior citizen]

You are right. And sometimes, even if it is "second-hand", that does not mean it is not accurate. People often relate to others what happened to them. What you "hear" is not always rumor or someone looking to start a rumor. I take those posts as just attempting to be helpful.

You are spot on. Why would someone at our age want to tell a lie ?
Such as having spotted a coyote in their TV backyard.

Most people are simply relaying their own personal experiences and their own perceptions of a matter, based on their own life experience.

My pet peeve are know it alls who just don't get what others are trying to express.........plus statements taken out of context.

Good post dillywho...............I chalk many posts up to "second childhood".
People our age know to post truthfully.......we're not a standup comic act.

[2BNTV]

Hey, I think you nailed it, 2B. Good post.

Thank you. :smiley:

[senior citizen]

I definitely know where you're coming from.
I've never really cared one way or another about the differing views on the developer. There are those who think he can do no wrong and others who think the opposite. Both groups are guilty of being rude to the other. There's no way everyone will ever agree on anything to do with that issue, so I don't really bother with it.
What IS troubling to me is the number of bullies on this site who pile on to every post from "I had a bad experience at a restaurant" to "somebody's house got broken into". I had two friends that came to this site at my encouragement (when I was new here and didn't know any better). They both were horrified and said "that site is nothing but a bunch of bullies who sit behind a keyboard and look for things to make snide remarks about!"
I, too, have had numerous private messages thanking me for making posts (that were quickly deleted by the moderator). I usually find myself taking up for the underdog (which is always the OP who catches the "why did you post this" routine) because it's just sickening watching the pack dog mentality of a certain clique.
It makes me thankful that I didn't spend much time on this site before purchasing. I'd have NEVER bought in TV if I thought this is what I'd be surrounded by day after day.
And I hope you get a chance to read this before it gets deleted for one reason or another.

I think the bullies are in the minority but they do stand out like a sore thumb. I've decided to ignore them. They must have very sad lives to have to pick on other people. It's easy to spot their "crowd" and just ignore them. I commend the original poster for bringing up the subject......

We met only truly kind, nice and helpful folks when we visited The Villages. In addition, all of the neighbors were super nice and friendly.

No doubt they know nothing about this forum........as others have said.
They were busy with their lives.

We also have found out so many helpful things which we keep adding to our "list" to make our potential upcoming move easier...and our settling in smoother.......

Good post Betty.....

[Golfingnut]

I think the bullies are in the minority but they do stand out like a sore thumb. I've decided to ignore them. They must have very sad lives to have to pick on other people. It's easy to spot their "crowd" and just ignore them. I commend the original poster for bringing up the subject......

We met only truly kind, nice and helpful folks when we visited The Villages. In addition, all of the neighbors were super nice and friendly.

No doubt they know nothing about this forum........as others have said.
They were busy with their lives.

We also have found out so many helpful things which we keep adding to our "list" to make our potential upcoming move easier...and our settling in smoother.......

Good post Betty.....

:BigApplause:

[rubicon]

Let me get this straight we have a COMPLAINER COMPLAING ABOUT POSTERS WHO COMPLAIN?

I wonder if the OP has lived here long enough to qualify to make such pre-judgments?


I wonder if the OP would define it as unnessary and/ or unfair complaining if posters were discussing contractors, auto shops retailers restaurants ,etc?

I wonder why a long time banker who is suppose to understand the upsides and downsides of business transactions paints with such a wide brush by defining complains as only animus toward the Developer?

I wonder why a banker who spent his entire career understanding the necessity of privacy suddenly again paints a with a broad brush all posters as cowardly hiding behind their identities so that they can make negative comments?

We are all entitled to our opinions but it does not alter reality


Personal Best Regards

[ROCKETMAN]

I don't believe the original post was about people warning residents about tire shops, bad experience with contractors, etc. I never pay attention to comments about restaurants or grocery stores. With thousands of residents using these places every day, there will always be problems, some places more than others as we all have read about. Complaints about the developer to me are overboard in many instances. You had many choices where to retire to. Most seem to complain about his wealth and getting richer by the day. Who cares.

[kittygilchrist]

Jim, welcome to the fray. Interesting that the intellectuals of those whom I assume to be male come out thumping their chests at you. I have to say that I am a woman who loves men waxing heroic. football anyone? iron man? chest thumping on totv?
Who knew one could see such a display of hormones, mine and yours, and we thought we were all too old for that.
And not to forget men of great heart who also stepped up. Real men all over TV coming to the BuffaloJim welcome to totv party.

[kittygilchrist]

****ing contest. - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Ioq84ISmB8k)

[Taltarzac725]

Let uys not grow weary while doing good, as we reap in due season, if we do not lose heart. Galatians 5:13.

GOD said, love one another, as I have loved you.

We are all here to help one another as GOD knows, we all need help.

Questions and Answers:
1. Have there been some episodes of people being offended, YES.
2. Have there been people who have helped other people. YES.
3. Has there been episode of the printed word being misunderstood. YES.
4. Has there been people who have made close friends on TOTV. YES.
5. Are ther chiques on TOTV. NO Just people who have grown close to other people, and are like minded. You have to be on this site a long time, to know who you want to be friends with. Does everyone hang out constantly. NO
6. Has there been people who been on TOTV and left, because they were so negative, and positive people ignored them. YES
7. Do you some people try to infuse humor on threads, because there are people who are responding, to what they see as a verbal threat and the thread is getting out of hand. YES
8. Will the admin step in to avoid the personal attacks. YES.
9. Do some people feel protective of this site and TV, because they love it. YES
10. In general, have people learn a lot about living in TV. YES.

It tends to run in cycles, as there are always some people who hide behind there screen names, and stir the pot, to see if they will get someone to bite, at their arrogance. The people who have their pictures printed, are the one's who have nothing to hide and generally like what this site, brings to the community.

I think it's perfectly natural for newer people to be sensitive, as they have been reading this site for a long time before starting to post. I try to be repectful of these new posters as they are overcoming some form of timidity.

Nuff said......... I will get down from my soapbox.

Nice post. I have not really found cliques on TOTV all that much. Maybe there are some people who think along the same line and small groups of friends like my various acquaintances from the dog park Doggie Doo Run Run.

The moderator usually does an excellent job of not letting things get out of hand. This is probably the most civil posting board I have been on. Many of the other ones often have extensive flame wars going on.

[gomoho]

Nice post. I have not really found cliques on TOTV all that much. Maybe there are some people who think along the same line and small groups of friends like my various acquaintances from the dog park Doggie Doo Run Run.

The moderator usually does an excellent job of not letting things get out of hand. This is probably the most civil posting board I have been on. Many of the other ones often have extensive flame wars going on.

Well now that pretty much sums things up and I agree. Sure things get out of hand once in a while, but I think we're all grown ups. It is never, ever, ever nice to beat someone up and for the most part we're all good guys.

[janmcn]

Well now that pretty much sums things up and I agree. Sure things get out of hand once in a while, but I think we're all grown ups. It is never, ever, ever nice to beat someone up and for the most part we're all good guys.


Totally agree. If the OP thinks this forum is rough, he should have been around when the political forum was going strong. He would have been begging for his life. I'm still licking my wounds. LOL

[PaPaLarry]

Well now that pretty much sums things up and I agree. Sure things get out of hand once in a while, but I think we're all grown ups. It is never, ever, ever nice to beat someone up and for the most part we're all good guys.
And Gals!!!

[Golfingnut]

Totally agree. If the OP thinks this forum is rough, he should have been around when the political forum was going strong. He would have been begging for his life. I'm still licking my wounds. LOL

LOL been there done that. Still have folks that think I had the site closed down. Wish I has that much power.

[gomoho]

Papa Larry - for the record - gomoho is a girl!

[PaPaLarry]

Papa Larry - for the record - gomoho is a girl!
"most part we're all good guys". LOL Sorry, but was sticking up for the gals too, so just wanted guys and gals!! Meant no harm!!

[gomoho]

"most part we're all good guys". LOL Sorry, but was sticking up for the gals too, so just wanted guys and gals!! Meant no harm!!

understood - just wanted to set the record straight

[KeepingItReal]

Let me get this straight we have a COMPLAINER COMPLAING ABOUT POSTERS WHO COMPLAIN?

I wonder if the OP has lived here long enough to qualify to make such pre-judgments?


I wonder if the OP would define it as unnessary and/ or unfair complaining if posters were discussing contractors, auto shops retailers restaurants ,etc?

I wonder why a long time banker who is suppose to understand the upsides and downsides of business transactions paints with such a wide brush by defining complains as only animus toward the Developer?

I wonder why a banker who spent his entire career understanding the necessity of privacy suddenly again paints a with a broad brush all posters as cowardly hiding behind their identities so that they can make negative comments?

We are all entitled to our opinions but it does not alter reality


Personal Best Regards

Right on, well said.

My wife spent 42 years in banking and about 20 of that in HR. Lots of holes here.

:BigApplause: :BigApplause:

[nitehawk]

Citizens First Bank only has woman working for them --- next time you go to the Citizens First Bank take a look around and count the men

[graciegirl]

Citizens First Bank only has woman working for them --- next time you go to the Citizens First Bank take a look around and count the men

I will. I never notice such things. I think of them as having identical capabilities in a job like that.

The Morses probably employ more men when lifting large things is needed.

There are a few things where a persons sex has advantages or disadvantages but not as many as thought years ago.


Why do you think that Citizen's Bank employs more women, nitehawk?

[Challenger]

Citizens First Bank only has woman working for them --- next time you go to the Citizens First Bank take a look around and count the men

What is you point?

[DougB]

Citizens First Bank only has woman working for them --- next time you go to the Citizens First Bank take a look around and count the men

Citizens First Bank thread is that way -------->

[TheVillageChicken]

Since the OP opened the door for posting PM's, here you go. I won't identify the person, though.

It was designed to be an honest discourse about the general tone of the majority of Threads here posted month after month on this site .

The subject line was a question asked honestly .
" Why is it that ......... ".

I wish that I could share the now 21 PMs that have been sent to me by very well educated and articulate people who admit that they agree with me 100% but that they can not deal with the inevitable " piling on " that they feel would quickly await them from the tight " clique " of regulars who dominate this site .
As more than one shared with me : " They have their own little club and god forbid anyone else dare join in the discussion unless they agree with the regulars ".
And finally this site remains active and free due to sponsorship dollars . I found it very interesting that as of 5PM today no less than now 3 sponsors have stated in PMs to me that they are exiting at the end of their contract . All state that they have become discouraged by the constant petty bitching .
And in my opinion you sir or madam enjoy stirring the pot with your sarcastic biting remarks .
Cheers !

[TheVillageChicken]

What is you point?


That bankers looking for trophy wives like to stock the pond?

[2BNTV]

Citizens First Bank only has woman working for them --- next time you go to the Citizens First Bank take a look around and count the men

I worked for a major bank, (over 2K employees), and it was comprised of 65% woman. It's a good to great job. I am grateful to a woman friend, who informed me to restructure a mortgage, and it saved me 30K.

It definitely worked for me. :smiley:

BTW - No hanky panky was invovled. :smiley: A great lady.

[graciegirl]

How true. I am sorry the OP had problems in his personal life, but I didn't agree with his statement that basically said anyone who says something negative about the Developer begrudges the Developer his success, and so on. People complain about the Developer for a variety of reasons, often because, in their minds, they feel Developer has taken advantage, or is not living up to the expectations they had when they purchased here, and so on. Those are real concerns, not to be brushed under the rug or a reason to insult someone. Ultimately, when some people complain about the Developer or any Villages related issue, I think they are hoping to raise awareness so ultimately things will get better in the future.

There is obviously a clique on this site and they will immediately jump on any post that implies in any way that The Villages is not perfect. What are they so afraid of? I just can't understand why they are so terrified that if one exposes a few warts, the whole lifestyle will come crashing down. And yes, there is meanness and insulting remarks. I have brought this issue up with the moderators, and have gotten no where. I think they are probably pandering to this clique because they post so often, so it brings up their stats which raises the site's value as far as getting advertisers. But as you said, the tone of TOTV has gotten so bad, that people are getting sick of it. If it keeps up, they will have their clique, and the people who are trying to advertise their garage sales, and everyone else will have moved on to greener, friendlier pastures.

I think it is VERY important to keep an open mind. In fact when people give really good reasons for their opinons, my old and stubborn opinions are sometimes changed. When a LOT of people keep saying the same things, I get the idea they might have something to think about.

We all must consider that we could be right...and we could be wrong.
I have been told that I am pandering for popularity and that doesn't sound nice. I prefer to think that try to HEAR what people are really saying..and sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don't.

Sometimes on this forum I get mad, and I am DEAD wrong, and sometimes I think other people are dead wrong. I am very suspicious of people who always seem to be at odds with what appears to be an o.k. situation. What makes them want to oppose something that most others find to be comfortable and good.

It almost always boils down to a philosophical belief that they cannot put down. That would include me. I do it.

But...we can all try HARDER to see the other's point of view. We could be wrong.

I know I frequently am.

[Indydealmaker]

I suspect that it is likely that not ALL of the animus toward the Developer is founded on envy or some similar emotion. I do believe, however, that much of the complaints and disappointments are the result of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

From what I have observed, many people have moved here with the understanding that they have a legal contract with The Villages that says:

1. Free entertainment on the Square For Life.
2. The Villages is a private "gated" community.
3. The Villages is a secure "dome" safe from the outside world.
4. The rules are for everyone else.
5. It is a law that everyone must be Friendly.
6. Community Watch is for security.
7. The Developer is obligated to control which retailers are in TV.
8. The Developer's profit has a cap. Above that he becomes unethical.
9. The streets are all private.
10. Now that one is retired and living in TV, all costs are frozen.
11. All restaurants must be perfect 100% of the time.
12. TV will never be too crowded.
13. TV will never have too many snowbirds and part time residents.

I have combed through all of my files and come to the conclusion that the only contract we were offered was the contract to purchase a home with deed restrictions. I now seem to recall that before we bought our home, I researched the developer, the deed restrictions, historical home values, taxes, local neighboring towns. I drove most of the villages, observed new homes under construction, talked to tons of TVers on the squares, subscribed to The Daily Sun went out for a night of drinking and debauchery with Mr. Midnight. And guess what? No surprises and no complaints! I am not 100% satisfied with all aspects of life in TV, but no surprises.

The Villages is a Microcosm of the rest of the country, with a twist. That twist is that we have the largest concentration of seniors in a relatively small geographic stamp. That is neither all good nor all bad. It just is.

We are living in a quasi governmental district that offers certain itemized amenities for which we agree to pay an annual fee that has an escalator clause. We also have agreed to pay a maintenance fee.

That is it. No other contracts. All of the other emotional lifestyle expectations, are solely the responsibilities of the residents.

So get up in the morning, put on your parrothead cap, make a marguerita, pour a Johnnie Black and go out and be Friendly. Make TV your own little paradise and all of a sudden it will be that for all.

[2BNTV]

Great post. :bigbow: :bigbow: :bigbow:

I would only add, that if one thinks they will stop having problems, by being in TV, they are sorely mistaken. Problems, only go away when your dead.

I for one, who will enjoy being in this bubble, until they carry me out.

I am a frog!!!!!!!

[Challenger]

I suspect that it is likely that not ALL of the animus toward the Developer is founded on envy or some similar emotion. I do believe, however, that much of the complaints and disappointments are the result of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

From what I have observed, many people have moved here with the understanding that they have a legal contract with The Villages that says:

1. Free entertainment on the Square For Life.
2. The Villages is a private "gated" community.
3. The Villages is a secure "dome" safe from the outside world.
4. The rules are for everyone else.
5. It is a law that everyone must be Friendly.
6. Community Watch is for security.
7. The Developer is obligated to control which retailers are in TV.
8. The Developer's profit has a cap. Above that he becomes unethical.
9. The streets are all private.
10. Now that one is retired and living in TV, all costs are frozen.
11. All restaurants must be perfect 100% of the time.
12. TV will never be too crowded.
13. TV will never have too many snowbirds and part time residents.

I have combed through all of my files and come to the conclusion that the only contract we were offered was the contract to purchase a home with deed restrictions. I now seem to recall that before we bought our home, I researched the developer, the deed restrictions, historical home values, taxes, local neighboring towns. I drove most of the villages, observed new homes under construction, talked to tons of TVers on the squares, subscribed to The Daily Sun went out for a night of drinking and debauchery with Mr. Midnight. And guess what? No surprises and no complaints! I am not 100% satisfied with all aspects of life in TV, but no surprises.

The Villages is a Microcosm of the rest of the country, with a twist. That twist is that we have the largest concentration of seniors in a relatively small geographic stamp. That is neither all good nor all bad. It just is.

We are living in a quasi governmental district that offers certain itemized amenities for which we agree to pay an annual fee that has an escalator clause. We also have agreed to pay a maintenance fee.

That is it. No other contracts. All of the other emotional lifestyle expectations, are solely the responsibilities of the residents.

So get up in the morning, put on your parrothead cap, make a marguerita, pour a Johnnie Black and go out and be Friendly. Make TV your own little paradise and all of a sudden it will be that for all.

One of the better posts to appear on this forum {MHO)

[Barefoot]

I suspect that it is likely that not ALL of the animus toward the Developer is founded on envy or some similar emotion. I do believe, however, that much of the complaints and disappointments are the result of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

From what I have observed, many people have moved here with the understanding that they have a legal contract with The Villages that says:

1. Free entertainment on the Square For Life.
2. The Villages is a private "gated" community.
3. The Villages is a secure "dome" safe from the outside world.
4. The rules are for everyone else.
5. It is a law that everyone must be Friendly.
6. Community Watch is for security.
7. The Developer is obligated to control which retailers are in TV.
8. The Developer's profit has a cap. Above that he becomes unethical.
9. The streets are all private.
10. Now that one is retired and living in TV, all costs are frozen.
11. All restaurants must be perfect 100% of the time.
12. TV will never be too crowded.
13. TV will never have too many snowbirds and part time residents.

I have combed through all of my files and come to the conclusion that the only contract we were offered was the contract to purchase a home with deed restrictions. I now seem to recall that before we bought our home, I researched the developer, the deed restrictions, historical home values, taxes, local neighboring towns. I drove most of the villages, observed new homes under construction, talked to tons of TVers on the squares, subscribed to The Daily Sun went out for a night of drinking and debauchery with Mr. Midnight. And guess what? No surprises and no complaints! I am not 100% satisfied with all aspects of life in TV, but no surprises.

The Villages is a Microcosm of the rest of the country, with a twist. That twist is that we have the largest concentration of seniors in a relatively small geographic stamp. That is neither all good nor all bad. It just is.

We are living in a quasi governmental district that offers certain itemized amenities for which we agree to pay an annual fee that has an escalator clause. We also have agreed to pay a maintenance fee.

That is it. No other contracts. All of the other emotional lifestyle expectations, are solely the responsibilities of the residents.

So get up in the morning, put on your parrothead cap, make a marguerita, pour a Johnnie Black and go out and be Friendly. Make TV your own little paradise and all of a sudden it will be that for all.

Excellent post. :bowdown:

[Trish Crocker]

.

We would like to know you Jim. Our welcome mat is always out and the coffee pot is always on.

Some of us, make that a LOT of us are really, truly, honestly, happy and satisfied here and no one is paying us to say that. Dear good positive people live here and sit on both sides of the political aisle and are dependable and kind human beings in every way.

Kindest regards,

Gracie. and family.


But...You are incorrect about Gomoho. That girl is honest and bright and VERY fair. I can't think when she has called something wrong.

ilv2rdhd has said it wisely. The written word, without the benefit of facial expression and body English is often misinterpreted. AND only if you read the forum a LOT do you get the gist of certain posters personalities.

And we all screw up. Yes we do.

Well said Gracie and I agree!

[mickey100]

I suspect that it is likely that not ALL of the animus toward the Developer is founded on envy or some similar emotion. I do believe, however, that much of the complaints and disappointments are the result of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

From what I have observed, many people have moved here with the understanding that they have a legal contract with The Villages that says:

1. Free entertainment on the Square For Life.
2. The Villages is a private "gated" community.
3. The Villages is a secure "dome" safe from the outside world.
4. The rules are for everyone else.
5. It is a law that everyone must be Friendly.
6. Community Watch is for security.
7. The Developer is obligated to control which retailers are in TV.
8. The Developer's profit has a cap. Above that he becomes unethical.
9. The streets are all private.
10. Now that one is retired and living in TV, all costs are frozen.
11. All restaurants must be perfect 100% of the time.
12. TV will never be too crowded.
13. TV will never have too many snowbirds and part time residents.

I have combed through all of my files and come to the conclusion that the only contract we were offered was the contract to purchase a home with deed restrictions. I now seem to recall that before we bought our home, I researched the developer, the deed restrictions, historical home values, taxes, local neighboring towns. I drove most of the villages, observed new homes under construction, talked to tons of TVers on the squares, subscribed to The Daily Sun went out for a night of drinking and debauchery with Mr. Midnight. And guess what? No surprises and no complaints! I am not 100% satisfied with all aspects of life in TV, but no surprises.

The Villages is a Microcosm of the rest of the country, with a twist. That twist is that we have the largest concentration of seniors in a relatively small geographic stamp. That is neither all good nor all bad. It just is.

We are living in a quasi governmental district that offers certain itemized amenities for which we agree to pay an annual fee that has an escalator clause. We also have agreed to pay a maintenance fee.

That is it. No other contracts. All of the other emotional lifestyle expectations, are solely the responsibilities of the residents.

So get up in the morning, put on your parrothead cap, make a marguerita, pour a Johnnie Black and go out and be Friendly. Make TV your own little paradise and all of a sudden it will be that for all.

I agree that some people have unrealistic expectations. But many people DO have VALID expectations, and when things aren't up to snuff they certainly have the right to voice their opinions without being insulted and slammed or being called negative. I think that was the point that some of the posters have been trying to make. Its all fine and dandy to say "make your own little paradise", but if the activity that you enjoy that comprises your little paradise, all of a sudden is compromised, and it appears there are reasonable solutions that are not being utilized, people will rightly complain in the hopes of making things better. That is a good thing, and good for us all. It keeps management on their toes and protects our lifestyle.

[graciegirl]

I suspect that it is likely that not ALL of the animus toward the Developer is founded on envy or some similar emotion. I do believe, however, that much of the complaints and disappointments are the result of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

From what I have observed, many people have moved here with the understanding that they have a legal contract with The Villages that says:

1. Free entertainment on the Square For Life.
2. The Villages is a private "gated" community.
3. The Villages is a secure "dome" safe from the outside world.
4. The rules are for everyone else.
5. It is a law that everyone must be Friendly.
6. Community Watch is for security.
7. The Developer is obligated to control which retailers are in TV.
8. The Developer's profit has a cap. Above that he becomes unethical.
9. The streets are all private.
10. Now that one is retired and living in TV, all costs are frozen.
11. All restaurants must be perfect 100% of the time.
12. TV will never be too crowded.
13. TV will never have too many snowbirds and part time residents.

I have combed through all of my files and come to the conclusion that the only contract we were offered was the contract to purchase a home with deed restrictions. I now seem to recall that before we bought our home, I researched the developer, the deed restrictions, historical home values, taxes, local neighboring towns. I drove most of the villages, observed new homes under construction, talked to tons of TVers on the squares, subscribed to The Daily Sun went out for a night of drinking and debauchery with Mr. Midnight. And guess what? No surprises and no complaints! I am not 100% satisfied with all aspects of life in TV, but no surprises.

The Villages is a Microcosm of the rest of the country, with a twist. That twist is that we have the largest concentration of seniors in a relatively small geographic stamp. That is neither all good nor all bad. It just is.

We are living in a quasi governmental district that offers certain itemized amenities for which we agree to pay an annual fee that has an escalator clause. We also have agreed to pay a maintenance fee.

That is it. No other contracts. All of the other emotional lifestyle expectations, are solely the responsibilities of the residents.

So get up in the morning, put on your parrothead cap, make a marguerita, pour a Johnnie Black and go out and be Friendly. Make TV your own little paradise and all of a sudden it will be that for all.


Excellently thought out and beautifully written.

[Bernie]

WOW I just went outside and checked --- I am surprised to see our street in NOT paved in gold.
The nice part about TOTV is we made a lot of good friends because of the forum but also we learned a lot from people discussing issues (w/o being abrasive) and providing advice. I suspect those posting abrasive comments just found a forum to broadcast the same character they had before joining in on TOTV or coming to TV.

[Golfingnut]

I am a retired enlisted man with a small pension yet I feel like a millionaire on vacation in our home here. TOTV has been a great source of information and entertainment for ten years. I say to contractors that advertise on this site that they have my business and that of folks we know because they do. I for one have more trust in ads here than other means of advertising. I LOVE THE VILLAGES and all but 6 of the 100,000 + Residents.

[ednagrahm]

I agree that some people have unrealistic expectations. But many people DO have VALID expectations, and when things aren't up to snuff they certainly have the right to voice their opinions without being insulted and slammed or being called negative. I think that was the point that some of the posters have been trying to make. Its all fine and dandy to say "make your own little paradise", but if the activity that you enjoy that comprises your little paradise, all of a sudden is compromised, and it appears there are reasonable solutions that are not being utilized, people will rightly complain in the hopes of making things better. That is a good thing, and good for us all. It keeps management on their toes and protects our lifestyle.

Your post is right on the mark! Much more realistic attitude than condemnation of folks who find imperfections in the Utopia brand and speak up to get them repaired.

[Buffalo Jim]

I am the OP and I believe that the Thread I initiated has more than accomplished the objectives of generating a dialog about civility and balance on this site .
Also the willingness to encourage new comers to feel comfortable posting here without becoming hit with a figurative " knock out " punch .
I have learned much and enjoyed the now well vetted debate . And I thank each and every person who has commented no matter their point of view.
I`m not certain how to arrange for a Thread to be closed but I am now asking the Moderator to do so . I think it is just " time " .

[rubicon]

Since the OP opened the door for posting PM's, here you go. I won't identify the person, though.

It was designed to be an honest discourse about the general tone of the majority of Threads here posted month after month on this site .

The subject line was a question asked honestly .
" Why is it that ......... ".

I wish that I could share the now 21 PMs that have been sent to me by very well educated and articulate people who admit that they agree with me 100% but that they can not deal with the inevitable " piling on " that they feel would quickly await them from the tight " clique " of regulars who dominate this site .
As more than one shared with me : " They have their own little club and god forbid anyone else dare join in the discussion unless they agree with the regulars ".
And finally this site remains active and free due to sponsorship dollars . I found it very interesting that as of 5PM today no less than now 3 sponsors have stated in PMs to me that they are exiting at the end of their contract . All state that they have become discouraged by the constant petty bitching .
And in my opinion you sir or madam enjoy stirring the pot with your sarcastic biting remarks .
Cheers !

The Village Chicken: I don't know that TOTV has a tight clique?

Let suppose you are correct concerning the continual complaining. do you suppose such constant complaining may be better described as problems being expressed by customers on TOTV repeatedly because ineffective management fails to act?

I will not name the owner but there is one very established restaurant that sponsors and hence monitors this forum. If a problem is expressed by a customer on TOTV that owner's restaurant he PM's them. He also PM's them if they advance a compliment.

The three or so sponsors you claim will not renew their contracts in my view are missing an opportunity to stay in communication with the mood and desires of their potential customers. In my view TOTV is a gold mine of information for business people

As I indicated in my previous post the problem is members who complain about complainers. Perhaps these members might be better served to move from a talking mode and more to a listening mode. Perhaps instead of prejudging someone concern about say the Developer they might start out with "Tell me why you feel that way?"

TOTV is an excellent outlet for many folks. I have noticed the wide difference between the number of members who only view posts to those that respond. Perhaps that is what they refer to as the silent majority?

Personal Best Regards:

[Golfingnut]

I am the OP and I believe that the Thread I initiated has more than accomplished the objectives of generating a dialog about civility and balance on this site .
Also the willingness to encourage new comers to feel comfortable posting here without becoming hit with a figurative " knock out " punch .
I have learned much and enjoyed the now well vetted debate . And I thank each and every person who has commented no matter their point of view.
I`m not certain how to arrange for a Thread to be closed but I am now asking the Moderator to do so . I think it is just " time " .

Wait Jim, I am not done with this thread yet. :beer3:

[Bogie Shooter]

I am the OP and I believe that the Thread I initiated has more than accomplished the objectives of generating a dialog about civility and balance on this site .
Also the willingness to encourage new comers to feel comfortable posting here without becoming hit with a figurative " knock out " punch .
I have learned much and enjoyed the now well vetted debate . And I thank each and every person who has commented no matter their point of view.
I`m not certain how to arrange for a Thread to be closed but I am now asking the Moderator to do so . I think it is just " time " .

Go to the bottom of any page. There is a "contact us" icon.

[TheVillageChicken]

The Village Chicken: I don't know that TOTV has a tight clique?

Let suppose you are correct concerning the continual complaining. do you suppose such constant complaining may be better described as problems being expressed by customers on TOTV repeatedly because ineffective management fails to act?

I will not name the owner but there is one very established restaurant that sponsors and hence monitors this forum. If a problem is expressed by a customer on TOTV that owner's restaurant he PM's them. He also PM's them if they advance a compliment.

The three or so sponsors you claim will not renew their contracts in my view are missing an opportunity to stay in communication with the mood and desires of their potential customers. In my view TOTV is a gold mine of information for business people

As I indicated in my previous post the problem is members who complain about complainers. Perhaps these members might be better served to move from a talking mode and more to a listening mode. Perhaps instead of prejudging someone concern about say the Developer they might start out with "Tell me why you feel that way?"

TOTV is an excellent outlet for many folks. I have noticed the wide difference between the number of members who only view posts to those that respond. Perhaps that is what they refer to as the silent majority?

Personal Best Regards:

Not my words, Sir, nor my sentiment. Just sharing a PM I received...I'm a giver.

[Bogie Shooter]

Not my words, Sir, nor my sentiment. Just sharing a PM I received...I'm a giver.

Sharing a Private Message?

[TheVillageChicken]

Sharing a Private Message?

Yep, just like the OP did. When someone sends me a PM chastising and insulting me, I don't think they should have expectations of non-attribution. If I am wrong I am wrong, but it will bother me little to none....leaning towards none.

[rayschic]

How true. I am sorry the OP had problems in his personal life, but I didn't agree with his statement that basically said anyone who says something negative about the Developer begrudges the Developer his success, and so on. People complain about the Developer for a variety of reasons, often because, in their minds, they feel Developer has taken advantage, or is not living up to the expectations they had when they purchased here, and so on. Those are real concerns, not to be brushed under the rug or a reason to insult someone. Ultimately, when some people complain about the Developer or any Villages related issue, I think they are hoping to raise awareness so ultimately things will get better in the future.

There is obviously a clique on this site and they will immediately jump on any post that implies in any way that The Villages is not perfect. What are they so afraid of? I just can't understand why they are so terrified that if one exposes a few warts, the whole lifestyle will come crashing down. And yes, there is meanness and insulting remarks. I have brought this issue up with the moderators, and have gotten no where. I think they are probably pandering to this clique because they post so often, so it brings up their stats which raises the site's value as far as getting advertisers. But as you said, the tone of TOTV has gotten so bad, that people are getting sick of it. If it keeps up, they will have their clique, and the people who are trying to advertise their garage sales, and everyone else will have moved on to greener, friendlier pastures.

Does anyone know who the moderators of TOTV are ? Will anyone admit to being one ?
I think that they usually do a good job but it may be a conflict of interest to be a poster and a moderator. It's also a thankless job and not one that I would want.
The info below is copied from the TOTV Forum Instructions.




What are moderators and administrators?

Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other actions. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.

Administrators are the people who have overall control of everything that happens on the board. They oversee how the board is styled, what forums to create and how to organize them, what information to require from members and who to appoint as moderators.

[graciegirl]

Does anyone know who the moderators of TOTV are ? Will anyone admit to being one ? I think that they usually do a good job but it may be a conflict of interest to be a poster and a moderator. It's also a thankless job and not one that I would want.
The info below is copied from the TOTV Forum Instructions.




What are moderators and administrators?

Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other actions. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.

Administrators are the people who have overall control of everything that happens on the board. They oversee how the board is styled, what forums to create and how to organize them, what information to require from members and who to appoint as moderators.

I'm not and no one ever asked me to be one. I wonder if they get paid.

[gbobo]

Can't agree more about people being so negative on this site. We have been planning to move to The Villages when I retire for several years. A good friend who now lives in The Villages (YEAH!!!) created a countdown calendar to retirement for me and when it started I had over 1800 days left to retirement. I posted on TOTV how excited I was to be making plans and someone wrote how ridiculous it was to be planning that far ahead. Well, guess what? I am under 200 days now and SO excited. I read TOTV all the time and just decided when we get there we will enjoy the sunshine (it's 23 degrees here today), enjoy the entertainment and the restaurants and all the activities there are to do and just generally enjoy our retirement. And I'm pretty sure we'll make more friends who feel the same way. See you on the Square! :pepper2:

[onslowe]

Gbobo, Great attitude. The days will dwindle faster than your think. They did for us. We've been here almost a year, but have been readers of TOTV much longer.

I respectfully suggest you (and all of us) re-read Indy's post above. We really were concerned about the "happy dale" and "Stepford Wives" false impression that once in a while entered our minds. TOTV showed me a regular group of common sensical people who were happy to be here and not wearing rose colored glasses.

You will be welcomed as we were. I love this place.

[rubicon]

Can't agree more about people being so negative on this site. We have been planning to move to The Villages when I retire for several years. A good friend who now lives in The Villages (YEAH!!!) created a countdown calendar to retirement for me and when it started I had over 1800 days left to retirement. I posted on TOTV how excited I was to be making plans and someone wrote how ridiculous it was to be planning that far ahead. Well, guess what? I am under 200 days now and SO excited. I read TOTV all the time and just decided when we get there we will enjoy the sunshine (it's 23 degrees here today), enjoy the entertainment and the restaurants and all the activities there are to do and just generally enjoy our retirement. And I'm pretty sure we'll make more friends who feel the same way. See you on the Square! :pepper2:

gbobo: I can understand why you feel the way you do. The excitement about retiring and retiring to The Villages seems to be dampened by what you read here. However, do not pre-judge The Villages nor the members on TOTV until you have had an appreciable adjustment period after moving to The Villages. There are some really nice people here and on TOTV

See you in 200 days or so


Personal Best Regards

[Bogie Shooter]

There are thousands of people who don't even know that TOTV exists and they are doing fine.......I'm sure.

[Cisco Kid]

Can't agree more about people being so negative on this site. We have been planning to move to The Villages when I retire for several years. A good friend who now lives in The Villages (YEAH!!!) created a countdown calendar to retirement for me and when it started I had over 1800 days left to retirement. I posted on TOTV how excited I was to be making plans and someone wrote how ridiculous it was to be planning that far ahead. Well, guess what? I am under 200 days now and SO excited. I read TOTV all the time and just decided when we get there we will enjoy the sunshine (it's 23 degrees here today), enjoy the entertainment and the restaurants and all the activities there are to do and just generally enjoy our retirement. And I'm pretty sure we'll make more friends who feel the same way. See you on the Square! :pepper2:

Why would you want to leave IL ? :a20:

[gbobo]

Cisco: I'm pretty positive it's REALLY too cold here. My old bones don't handle that so well anymore!! Do enjoy Illini basketball and Papa Del's:jester:.

[CFrance]

Why would you want to leave IL ? :a20:

Plus he probably saw your video last winter of you and the dogs rolling around in the snow Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! :doggie::doggie::cold::cold:

[SALYBOW]

You will be here sooner than you think. I really think that the negativity and abusiveness is limited to a dozen or so posters, definitely not all. For me the sad thing is all the lovely people we had who do not post anymore because of the animus. I miss them. Is it necessary to put people down. One can disagree in a polite manner by just stating that you disagree and why :shrug:
If somone disagrees with me I just figure we can't all be right. :a20:

[2BNTV]

Can't agree more about people being so negative on this site. We have been planning to move to The Villages when I retire for several years. A good friend who now lives in The Villages (YEAH!!!) created a countdown calendar to retirement for me and when it started I had over 1800 days left to retirement. I posted on TOTV how excited I was to be making plans and someone wrote how ridiculous it was to be planning that far ahead. Well, guess what? I am under 200 days now and SO excited. I read TOTV all the time and just decided when we get there we will enjoy the sunshine (it's 23 degrees here today), enjoy the entertainment and the restaurants and all the activities there are to do and just generally enjoy our retirement. And I'm pretty sure we'll make more friends who feel the same way. See you on the Square! :pepper2:

I can feel your excitment.

I love this place. Today, it was in the seventies, and I enjoyed being about, in shorts and short sleeve shirt and sandals. Tomorrow, it's the polo ponnies match. I live very close to thwe polo field. It doesn't get better than this!

I have had enough snow, to last me three lifetimes. You don't have to shovel sunshine. :smiley: