Don't believe in miracles?

[DougB]

You are a miracle

[graciegirl]

You are a miracle















http://www.clker.com/cliparts/R/U/Y/u/I/M/thumbs-up-icon-blue-hi.png

[bkcunningham1]

Miracles

By Walt Whitman

1819-1892

Why, who makes much of a miracle?
As to me I know of nothing else but miracles,
Whether I walk the streets of Manhattan,
Or dart my sight over the roofs of houses toward the sky,
Or wade with naked feet along the beach just in the edge of the water,
Or stand under trees in the woods,
Or talk by day with any one I love, or sleep in the bed at night
with any one I love,
Or sit at table at dinner with the rest,
Or look at strangers opposite me riding in the car,
Or watch honey-bees busy around the hive of a summer forenoon,
Or animals feeding in the fields,
Or birds, or the wonderfulness of insects in the air,
Or the wonderfulness of the sundown, or of stars shining so quiet
and bright,
Or the exquisite delicate thin curve of the new moon in spring;
These with the rest, one and all, are to me miracles,
The whole referring, yet each distinct and in its place.

To me every hour of the light and dark is a miracle,
Every cubic inch of space is a miracle,
Every square yard of the surface of the earth is spread with the same,
Every foot of the interior swarms with the same.
To me the sea is a continual miracle,
The fishes that swim--the rocks--the motion of the waves--the
ships with men in them,
What stranger miracles are there?

[TVMayor]

Philippine Typhoon Miracle
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQg1fJaw3LbKw7Yf-HE6tdxLZQINf37KY2A4BluL8vundfu_GQutA

Storms sweep across Midwest, kill 6 in Illinois Miracle
http://wfld.images.worldnow.com/images/23996736_BG5.jpg

[Peachie]

[quote=TVMayor;786141]Philippine Typhoon Miracle


Thank you, Mayor, for pointing out that miracle of humanity too. As we watch the evening news and also do what we can from our station, we are amazed at the miracle of love and reaching of hands to help. The efforts to get aid quickly to the population and the wonderful doctors, nurses and aid workers feverishly treating as many of our fellow citizens of the world is a miracle to behold. God bless those devastated areas and may they continue to recover with our aid. (Hope you did your part, Mayor... :pray:).

[donb9006]

How many things are alive on this planet? How many quadrillion? How many people? 9 billion? One individual is hardly a miracle.

It's funny how religion makes people think...or not.

[Doctommft]

Footprints in the Sand


One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,
"You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during
the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one
set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most,
you have not been there for me?"

The Lord replied,
"The times when you have
seen only one set of footprints,
is when I carried you."
Mary Stevenson

[billethkid]

How many things are alive on this planet? How many quadrillion? How many people? 9 billion? One individual is hardly a miracle.

It's funny how religion makes people think...or not.

Isn't INDIVIDUAL free choice and opinion wonderful? It even provides a platform for minority reports.

btk

[donb9006]

Isn't INDIVIDUAL free choice and opinion wonderful? It even provides a platform for minority reports.

btk

It's fine and dandy as long as it's based on a fact or truth. When people have opinions and beliefs that are irrational, based on lies, then it becomes a problem.

[Golfingnut]

It's fine and dandy as long as it's based on a fact or truth. When people have opinions and beliefs that are irrational, based on lies, then it becomes a problem.

Another good point by Don. Don, you have my attention, keep em coming.

[billethkid]

as long as it's based on a fact or truth. When people have opinions and beliefs that are irrational, based on lies, then it becomes a problem.

As measured by who or whom?
As judged by who, whom or what?
Dare I ask how faith fits the filter being suggested?

btk

[donb9006]

As measured by who or whom?
As judged by who, whom or what?
Dare I ask how faith fits the filter being suggested?

btk

A fact is a fact, a truth is a truth, why would it matter who/whom is doing the measuring or the judging? Facts and truths can stand alone. Only when it's NOT the truth or a fact does it becomes subjective and a "verdict" is necessary. Then it's called a "theory"...not a "fact". Which is what we usually see in day to day life...theories taken as fact...acted on as fact.

What do we REALLY "know"? Not much. What do we THINK we know? What we're told... Do you believe your priest? Or the scientist? How about neither? Both sides have an agenda and want you to believe their story...their explanation.

The bigger problem is...what is the "truth"? Was is a "fact"? And how do you know? Is that keyboard you're using solid? It appears to be, you'd believe it if I told you it was. It's a "fact", the keyboard is solid. But it's not. Zoom in close enough and you'd see it's 99.99% empty space. Become small enough and it would take millions of years of random movement to hit something. It appears solid due to limitations of your senses.

Here is another... What IS gravity? We know its effect, but we don't know WHAT it is. Electromagnetism is the same, it's responsible for everything you see and touch, you wouldn't exist without it, we can use it, but we have no idea WHAT it's "made of". That's the thing with "facts", people think they "know", but usually, they don't. Things are MUCH more complicated than most people realize.

Yes, to the "ignorant" (and I don't use the word as derogatory), I'm simply stating "you don't know", life appears to be miraculous. But believe me, there are a ton of other "miraculous" things out there that had to come first. Life is a by-product of a myriad of events that were a long time in coming.

If life was "planned", it was by someone with a LOT of patience. I personally have no idea how life got started.

How does "faith" fit in? The OP posted something that was religious in nature..."miracles" are exclusively in the domain of religion. Otherwise they're simply "improbable events". I don't believe "your" religion any more than the explanation of the Muslim, the Hindi, or the Buddhist...

When you deal with very large numbers, say 9 billion people, a one in a million event...a "miracle"...happens to 9000 people...making it not so rare...not so miraculous. If everyone on the planet bought a lottery ticket...on average 50 people would win every drawing. "Miracles" happen every day...

[kittygilchrist]

monarch migration...I am not making this up...
http://youtu.be/_-nnc6dWUJg

[renielarson]

My husband and I believe in miracles. A miracle has saved his life twice.

Once in New York, he was ready to cross the street at a stop light, one early morning, when he heard a voice say STOP. This voice was not from a person around him because there wasn't anyone there but him (he's a very early riser and was looking for a open coffee shop). The voice was in his head...and it surprised him. He stopped and didn't leave the curb! Thank goodness he stayed put because a bus ran the stop light and would have hit him had he crossed.

The second time was through re-occurring dreams he had of an upcoming car accident. He never mentioned the dreams to me but became overly cautious when driving because the dreams bothered him. On his way to work one morning, a car came around a curve on the wrong side of the road. My husband was in the lane of a head on collision...yet there just happened to be a small turn off lane where he was. He was able to avoid an accident by being able to quickly turn off on this short, connecting road. He believed it was because of his dreams that he was saved by being more tuned in to others while driving. He was so deeply affected by this that he wrote a song about "Second Chances" that I posted on the "What Music Inspires You" thread.

[njbchbum]

Faith is a miracle in and of itself!

[onslowe]

I am another who thinks the OP is right. I am thankful that I've reached a point in my journey where I am busy enough with my own faith and do not engage others in pointless 'faith' debates or "Is God a myth?" arguments. I believe and that's ok for me. (And I am not a fundamentalist, but I do hold with the fundamentals of Christianity.)

No one can do more than pray for oneself and for others.....'Lord...help my unbelief.'

Best wishes to all above.

[justjim]

It's fine and dandy as long as it's based on a fact or truth. When people have opinions and beliefs that are irrational, based on lies, then it becomes a problem.

"The Truth....is a beautiful and terrible thing and should be therefore treated with great caution". J. K. Rowling

[graciegirl]

Some inner voice tells all of us. It is wrong to hurt.

[billethkid]

And who defined a miracle as one in a million.
A convenient assertion to facilitate a position or stance.
Too much poetic license and arbitrary defining to suit me.

The tone however has a vaguely familiar ring!
Butkus

[Parker]

You are a miracle

DougB, this was a great post. That baby foot is now stuck in my head today, in a good way. (Why is it you never have a bad post?)

[cromlich]

awesome

[tucson]

No need to try and argue a point for it would be useless but I do hope and pray you are able to find something to trust and believe in more than just the things you can see. When the storms of life come, and they will come, it may be too late. God does not take second to anything, including oneself.

KJV John 12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:


KJV Hebrews Chapter 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

"And the truth shall make you FREE!" Thanks "KeepingItReal", for the perfect post of God's Holy Word :-)

[lightworker888]

the scientist, the believer, the pragmatist, the optimist, the agnostic, the pessimist.....etc Isn't it a miracle that we can all get along! And are there moments when each of us is one of these? Maybe it's a miracle that all our parts can cooperate enough to keep us "sane"...JMHO


LW888

[rubicon]

Vision a POW behind bars one sees the ground the other the stars.

The debate here while cerebrally stimulating will always end with "faith based " or "no one knows".

Remember basic philosophical question "Ï think and therefore I am" It has now been altered to Ï think, I think and therefore "I am"

We have all struggled with these basic questions of life and they are indeed intriguing as the make up of the universe people etc is truly magical and appears to be more intelligently designed than happenstance.

Personally I reached a point in my life where while I still view my surroundings with the eye of a child I have settled with the fact that the reasons will never be known to me while I still live. Perhaps in death .

[kittygilchrist]

I reached a point where I stopped trying to figure out God with my mind and used faith. That only works for people who have faith. It's a conundrum, how that works.

[donb9006]

No need to try and argue a point for it would be useless but I do hope and pray you are able to find something to trust and believe in more than just the things you can see. When the storms of life come, and they will come, it may be too late. God does not take second to anything, including oneself.

KJV John 12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:


KJV Hebrews Chapter 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Why would you pray for me to relinquish my responsibility for my own life to something/someone else? Are people genetically predisposed to cede control to "higher powers"? Are we predisposed to cede control to authority? It makes me wonder because of the prevalence of people who think like that. Look at all the religions in the world, each tries to "control" your thoughts and actions. Ever wonder why?

Oh, and you can't use your own book to prove something. Especially a book that has been tweaked and changed over the years to "fit". The Bible is a shadow of the original writings. Why are so many of the other "books" left out? Christianity itself is a shadow of the original idea. King James had the Bible completely rewritten, the "official canon" has changed much over the years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon

The New Testament is pretty much all the work of Paul. Who never met Jesus but seemed to know everything about him. Paul is pretty much the founder of Christianity. He's the Muhammad. Christianity would be a small time sect if not for Constantine who declared Rome would be Christian...pretty much making the entire civilized world Christian. I could go on and on...

Let me know if you want to talk seriously about religion...but be prepared to have your world view shattered. It's why we're not supposed to discuss it. The light of truth outshines lies.

"The Truth....is a beautiful and terrible thing and should be therefore treated with great caution". J. K. Rowling

Terrible to those who lie...beautiful to the honest. Why should the truth be treated with caution? If it's always better to be truthful (is it?), why is that quote, quote worthy? That looks like a quote a relativist would use...one whom picks and chooses when to be truthful. She's a writer of fiction...she's an authority on truth? Really?

"And the truth shall make you FREE!" Thanks "KeepingItReal", for the perfect post of God's Holy Word :-)

Yes it will...if you let it. Look within, not to someone else for the truth. The Bible as you read it...whichever version you prefer...isn't even CLOSE to the "original texts" which themselves were written decades after the fact during a time when 99% of the population was illiterate and passed things verbally. Remember the "telephone" game as a child? After 4 or 5 times being passed on, the original message was lost. You believe in an idea, not reality as it occurred.

Vision a POW behind bars one sees the ground the other the stars.

The debate here while cerebrally stimulating will always end with "faith based " or "no one knows".

Remember basic philosophical question "Ï think and therefore I am" It has now been altered to Ï think, I think and therefore "I am"

We have all struggled with these basic questions of life and they are indeed intriguing as the make up of the universe people etc is truly magical and appears to be more intelligently designed than happenstance.

Personally I reached a point in my life where while I still view my surroundings with the eye of a child I have settled with the fact that the reasons will never be known to me while I still live. Perhaps in death .

I like how you think...pragmatic with optimism.

[billethkid]

"....but be prepared to have your world view shattered...."

How very ominous....does this infer the rest of us don't know what you or others profess to know?

btk

[donb9006]

"....but be prepared to have your world view shattered...."

How very ominous....does this infer the rest of us don't know what you or others profess to know?

btk

Don't YOU profess to know what I/we don't know? Heaven, hell, judgment, I'd consider that professing to "know" something. Religious folks throw around professed "knowledge of the unknown" all the time. Yet "we're" not allowed to profess different knowledge? We're looked at as idiots for "not getting it".

[Barefoot]

Don't YOU profess to know what I/we don't know? Heaven, hell, judgment, I'd consider that professing to "know" something. Religious folks throw around professed "knowledge of the unknown" all the time. Yet "we're" not allowed to profess different knowledge? We're looked at as idiots for "not getting it".

How did we get from a beautiful picture of a newborn baby's foot to this? By mentioning the word "miracle"? Hopefully, if you look around, you will be lucky enough to see a world filled with small miracles.

[billethkid]

:icon_bored:

[Golfingnut]

Faith can be a good thing, the problem comes when confused individuals begin to pick and chose what they believe. Answered Prayers ~ The Worlds Most Prolific Serial Killers are Devout Christians ~ Coincidence, or Men of Perfect Faith? - by King Dave - Newsvine (http://king-dave.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/03/8623068-answered-prayers-the-worlds-most-prolific-serial-killers-are-devout-christians-coincidence-or-men-of-perfect-faith) Misinterpretation of scripture has taken the life of billions.

[kittygilchrist]

A miracle is in the eye of the beholder. I enjoy a sense of wonder at the natural world. It is as much a miracle babies are created as is supernatural intervention. Some don't see God in either, I see God in both.

[graciegirl]

Faith can be a good thing, the problem comes when confused individuals begin to pick and chose what they believe. Answered Prayers ~ The Worlds Most Prolific Serial Killers are Devout Christians ~ Coincidence, or Men of Perfect Faith? - by King Dave - Newsvine (http://king-dave.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/03/8623068-answered-prayers-the-worlds-most-prolific-serial-killers-are-devout-christians-coincidence-or-men-of-perfect-faith) Misinterpretation of scripture has taken the life of billions.

I am replying to Golfinnut, because I know he is sure I am his friend, but really to all in general. My credentials are that I am a wife, a mother, a sister and a friend.

People need to believe in God at some times of their lives. The people that I know who are devout are kind people; considerate of others, reasonable in their life style, moderate in their habits. They have a sense of humor and an appreciation of good times.


If any of you are atheists, fine. THAT is your belief. Please on this forum do NOT put down people or religions that are full of peace and kindness.


They are causing no harm to you. How you believe, just as how you eat, and what you do to others and how you do it is your choice. Most religions come with a set of laws and those laws come with conscience formation and that keeps society to SOME degree (certainly lessening in this day and age) from taking things belonging to others and killing each other.


I think that there is no reason to attack or undermine on this forum another's religious views or lack of them. It is just TOO upsetting for most of us and if you seek those kinds of friends, you won't find many on here.


I am thankful for our diversity. I am pretty sure there is a loving God. I see people here who enjoy their communities of faith. Leave it be. Please.

[Golfingnut]

I am replying to Golfinnut, because I know he is sure I am his friend, but really to all in general. My credentials are that I am a wife, a mother, a sister and a friend.

People need to believe in God at some times of their lives. The people that I know who are devout are kind people; considerate of others, reasonable in their life style, moderate in their habits. They have a sense of humor and an appreciation of good times.


If any of you are atheists, fine. THAT is your belief. Please on this forum do NOT put down people or religions that are full of peace and kindness.


They are causing no harm to you. How you believe, just as how you eat, and what you do to others and how you do it is your choice. Most religions come with a set of laws and those laws come with conscience formation and that keeps society to SOME degree (certainly lessening in this day and age) from taking things belonging to others and killing each other.


I think that there is no reason to attack or undermine on this forum another's religious views or lack of them. It is just TOO upsetting for most of us and if you seek those kinds of friends, you won't find many on here.


I am thankful for our diversity. I am pretty sure there is a loving God. I see people here who enjoy their communities of faith. Leave it be. Please.

I hope you understand that I am not about disrespecting any religion, I AM POINTING OUT that there are too many that claim to be one with their god yet discriminate against many social issues and groups of people. To me, that is hypocritical not spiritual. To misinterpret a scripture as a means to justify their personal prejudices is of the Devil and not GOD.

Give me a kind atheist and send away a prejudice minister.

[Cisco Kid]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Peachie]

Faith can be a good thing, the problem comes when confused individuals begin to pick and chose what they believe. Answered Prayers ~ The Worlds Most Prolific Serial Killers are Devout Christians ~ Coincidence, or Men of Perfect Faith? - by King Dave - Newsvine (http://king-dave.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/03/8623068-answered-prayers-the-worlds-most-prolific-serial-killers-are-devout-christians-coincidence-or-men-of-perfect-faith) Misinterpretation of scripture has taken the life of billions.

Golfingnut, you've determined all of the mentally ill people in the world are Christians or is it that SOME of the mentally ill people in the world are Christians and have performed heinous acts? Are you aware there are mentally ill atheists that have also performed heinous acts?

Faith IS a good thing. When people pick and chose what to believe, they are not following the precepts of our loving God. Most of us Christians will admit we are not perfect and struggle sometimes to live our lives according to the precepts of the bible. But He is a kind and loving God and, hopefully, the forgiveness He extends to all of us is a forgiveness we can extend to others.

Gracie, you put the whole thing in a nutshell beautifully.

[Golfingnut]

trying to express an opinion on here is like talking to your cats. They just don't seem to get it. ONE MORE TRY.

RELIGION GOOD
FAITH GOOD
GOD GOOD


PEOPLE THAT USE IT TO BENIFIT THEMSELVES BAD.

I have not said anything negative against faith or religion, but the PEOPLE THAT PRATICE INCORECTLY. I sometimes I feel folks will read into your posts until they find a way to spin it negative.

[graciegirl]

trying to express an opinion on here is like talking to your cats. They just don't seem to get it. ONE MORE TRY.

RELIGION GOOD
FAITH GOOD
GOD GOOD


PEOPLE THAT USE IT TO BENIFIT THEMSELVES BAD.

I have not said anything negative against faith or religion, but the PEOPLE THAT PRATICE INCORECTLY. I sometimes I feel folks will read into your posts until they find a way to spin it negative.



I knew what you meant.


AND LOU....we talk to our cats.


hugs.


Moi.

[Golfingnut]

I knew what you meant.


AND LOU....we talk to our cats.


hugs.


Moi.

Do they answer back?

Hugs back at ya.

Lou

[billethkid]

seems like a lot of keystokes to make a case for the exceptions in any given group.

Every group or population has them and unfortunately too much of our society is bent toward making any and all minority (not race) issues sound as though they are a general condition when they are not.

Remember the old logical sylligisms?

There are 20 boys in the room.
Johnny is a boy in the room.
Johnny has a hat on.
Therefore all the boys in the room have hats on..........not true!!!!!

We seem to spend so much energy talking about the one boy with a hat on! Or worse, these days why every boy should have a hat on because it is disturbing to Johnny that the others do not have one!!

btk

btk

[graciegirl]

seems like a lot of keystokes to make a case for the exceptions in any given group.

Every group or population has them and unfortunately too much of our society is bent toward making any and all minority (not race) issues sound as though they are a general condition when they are not.

Remember the old logical sylligisms?

There are 20 boys in the room.
Johnny is a boy in the room.
Johnny has a hat on.
Therefore all the boys in the room have hats on..........not true!!!!!

We seem to spend so much energy talking about the one boy with a hat on! Or worse, these days why every boy should have a hat on because it is disturbing to Johnny that the others do not have one!!

btk

btk





Billy! You win SAGE of the day. I wish SwimDawg would start giving her awards again.

[Golfingnut]

seems like a lot of keystokes to make a case for the exceptions in any given group.

Every group or population has them and unfortunately too much of our society is bent toward making any and all minority (not race) issues sound as though they are a general condition when they are not.

Remember the old logical sylligisms?

There are 20 boys in the room.
Johnny is a boy in the room.
Johnny has a hat on.
Therefore all the boys in the room have hats on..........not true!!!!!

We seem to spend so much energy talking about the one boy with a hat on! Or worse, these days why every boy should have a hat on because it is disturbing to Johnny that the others do not have one!!

btk

btk

Johnny has every right to be the only boy with a hat. I have issue with the pointing out his difference. I have respect for all even if they don't fit the good ole average mold. This world has room for us all. I admire gods wisdom to make us all different.

[billethkid]

"I have issue with the pointing out his difference."

I agree whole heartedly and present that this is exactly the root cause of many issues and discussions that go sideways or get testy or blown out of proportion. I do not support penalizing those who do not subscribe, to those who promote or exploit a difference.....for example don't do or say or present or exhibit something just because one person "points out a difference" that it offends them.

Add to the above potential politics or getting re-elected or losing ones job because......and all of a sudden the one with a difference is significantly amplified.

btk

[justjim]

Oh, for an iota of multi-value logic. However, this Thread is getting a bit off the subject. Anybody who doesn't think a new baby isn't a miracle just......well, I'm shocked.

[Golfingnut]

Oh, for an iota of multi-value logic. However, this Thread is getting a bit off the subject. Anybody who doesn't think a new baby isn't a miracle just......well, I'm shocked.

If you wake up on 25 Dec and find a wiggling package under the tree, open it and a baby jumps out and hugs you and says I love you mommy, that is a miracle. If you lay in a hospital bed for 13 hours in constant pain during child birth that is nature and not a miracle. It might look like a miracle to the father, but ???? The mother.

[justjim]

If you wake up on 25 Dec and find a wiggling package under the tree, open it and a baby jumps out and hugs you and says I love you mommy, that is a miracle. If you lay in a hospital bed for 13 hours in constant pain during child birth that is nature and not a miracle. It might look like a miracle to the father, but ???? The mother.

"Miracles, in the sense of phenomena we cannot explain, surround us on every hand: life itself is the miracle of miracles". George Bernard Shaw :wave:

[Golfingnut]

"Miracles, in the sense of phenomena we cannot explain, surround us on every hand: life itself is the miracle of miracles". George Bernard Shaw :wave:

Very true, but please tell me why it has proven to be true in my lifetime that "Only the good die young"?

I am burdened by going to the funeral of men and women I know to be better christians than I.

[Villages PL]

You are a miracle

If Doug says, "You are a miracle", you better believe it. Otherwise, his uncle Vinny will pay you a visit. You know what I mean?