Copper/ Magnetic Bracelets

[Cedwards38]

I see lots of folks, especially men, wearing these copper and or magnetic bracelets which supposedly have a health advantage. Is there science to support this? Do think this is real or just marketing of a product?

[Bogie Shooter]

Anything lasting more than 4 hours, call your doctor...............................

[rubicon]

I suspect most people wear them primarily as jewelry

[Villages PL]

I see lots of folks, especially men, wearing these copper and or magnetic bracelets which supposedly have a health advantage. Is there science to support this? Do think this is real or just marketing of a product?

I seriously doubt that it has any health advantage. How could it? Is the copper absorbed by your skin? And if it is, is it supposed to correct a copper deficiency? A doctor would recommend a supplement for a deficiency, not a bracelet.

As far as it being magnetic, that's not going to help anything, in my opinion. I remember many years ago when there was a trend or fad for that sort of thing. People were buying magnetic mattress pads etc.. Then after a few years everyone was offering them for sale (used) to try to get some of their money back.

[Bogie Shooter]

I seriously doubt that it has any health advantage. How could it? Is the copper absorbed by your skin? And if it is, is it supposed to correct a copper deficiency? A doctor would recommend a supplement for a deficiency, not a bracelet.

As far as it being magnetic, that's not going to help anything, in my opinion. I remember many years ago when there was a trend or fad for that sort of thing. People were buying magnetic mattress pads etc.. Then after a few years everyone was offering them for sale (used) to try to get some of their money back.

Kinda like Beanie Babies.:a20:

[TheVillageChicken]

This has been studied and verified by a branch of science called Snake Oilology.

[dolpterry]

This has been studied and verified by a branch of science called Snake Oilology.

So your saying it might work.

[TheVillageChicken]

So your saying it might work.


The marketing? Sure.

[Parker]

This has been studied and verified by a branch of science called Snake Oilology.

Funny!

[blueash]

If the illness you are treating has a significant psychosomatic component, and the patient "believes" in the treatment being offered, then there is a likelihood that the treatment will be beneficial. Placebos have been shown to not only help in psychosomatic symptom control but in "real" situations. Pain is certainly real, although there is a large component of how much the patient focuses on the pain which is reflected in the rating of its severity.
A Double-Blind, Randomized Multicenter Trial Comparing Duloxetine with Placebo in the Management of Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathic Pain - Raskin - 2005 - Pain Medicine - Wiley Online Library (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1526-4637.2005.00061.x/full)

Here is a study showing benefit in hip and knee pain in patients wearing magnetic bracelets. The improvement was 26% and there was a placebo group wearing a non-magnetic bracelet which improved less but also improved. The benefit of magnets was equal to that which patients obtained with exercise or Celebrex.

Randomised controlled trial of magnetic bracelets for relieving pain in osteoarthritis of the hip and knee (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535975/)

Now there is no explanation of why this might work. And there are many studies showing absolutely NO benefit so this one might be a fluke, like flipping a penny 5 times and getting heads each time. It happens but is meaningless.

Therapeutic effects of magnetic ... [Complement Ther Med. 2009 Oct-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19942103)
I like the conclusion of the abstract for this study:
"CONCLUSIONS:

"Our results indicate that magnetic and copper bracelets are generally ineffective for managing pain, stiffness and physical function in osteoarthritis. Reported therapeutic benefits are most likely attributable to non-specific placebo effects. However such devices have no major adverse effects and may provide hope."

[rayschic]

I see lots of folks, especially men, wearing these copper and or magnetic bracelets which supposedly have a health advantage. Is there science to support this? Do think this is real or just marketing of a product?

Here's an interesting article about this scam. It's a $300 million a year industry.

Magnetic Therapy: Cure or Hoax? : The Consumer Warning Network (http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2008/09/16/magnetic-therapy-cure-or-hoax/)

[Villages PL]

If the illness you are treating has a significant psychosomatic component, and the patient "believes" in the treatment being offered, then there is a likelihood that the treatment will be beneficial. Placebos have been shown to not only help in psychosomatic symptom control but in "real" situations. Pain is certainly real, although there is a large component of how much the patient focuses on the pain which is reflected in the rating of its severity.
A Double-Blind, Randomized Multicenter Trial Comparing Duloxetine with Placebo in the Management of Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathic Pain - Raskin - 2005 - Pain Medicine - Wiley Online Library (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1526-4637.2005.00061.x/full)

Here is a study showing benefit in hip and knee pain in patients wearing magnetic bracelets. The improvement was 26% and there was a placebo group wearing a non-magnetic bracelet which improved less but also improved. The benefit of magnets was equal to that which patients obtained with exercise or Celebrex.

Randomised controlled trial of magnetic bracelets for relieving pain in osteoarthritis of the hip and knee (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535975/)

Now there is no explanation of why this might work. And there are many studies showing absolutely NO benefit so this one might be a fluke, like flipping a penny 5 times and getting heads each time. It happens but is meaningless.

Therapeutic effects of magnetic ... [Complement Ther Med. 2009 Oct-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19942103)
I like the conclusion of the abstract for this study:
"CONCLUSIONS:

"Our results indicate that magnetic and copper bracelets are generally ineffective for managing pain, stiffness and physical function in osteoarthritis. Reported therapeutic benefits are most likely attributable to non-specific placebo effects. However such devices have no major adverse effects and may provide hope."

I once read about a study that discovered you can get a placebo effect even when you know you're taking a placebo. So even if you know a copper bracelet is ineffective, you can still get a placebo effect. And it doesn't have to be a pill or a bracelet.

It can be a health/diet book. These books will typically tell you, in the first chapter, that you are going to look great, feel great, and lose a lot of weight when you follow the XYZ regimen. And the book can, in many cases, work like a placebo. That's why most diets work in the beginning but eventually fail. Placebo's usually don't keep working for very long. Of course, there can be exceptions where someone continues following a certain regimen but I think it's kind of rare.

[TheVillageChicken]

I once read about a study that discovered you can get a placebo effect even when you know you're taking a placebo. So even if you know a copper bracelet is ineffective, you can still get a placebo effect. And it doesn't have to be a pill or a bracelet.

It can be a health/diet book. These books will typically tell you, in the first chapter, that you are going to look great, feel great, and lose a lot of weight when you follow the XYZ regimen. And the book can, in many cases, work like a placebo. That's why most diets work in the beginning but eventually fail. Placebo's usually don't keep working for very long. Of course, there can be exceptions where someone continues following a certain regimen but I think it's kind of rare.

Baloney

[Easyrider]

Baloney

:agree:

[blueash]

Despite the cries of baloney, the placebo effect is a subject of lots of interesting well designed research. One of my favorite studies was where the patients were told they were to receive a pain medication. Some were told it was an inexpensive pill, others that it was extremely expensive. JAMA. 2008 Mar 5;299(9):1016-7
Of course you know which pill worked better.

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1965 Apr;12:36-45.
" In one study that used placebos, the patients were even told openly that they were receiving a tablet without any active substance. The only additional comment that was allowed was that “it had helped many people.” Despite the objective information about the absence of any active ingredient, this positive remark ensured that the placebo administration was effective in 13 out of 14 patients and reduced their subjective symptoms by 41%"

There is even an opposite situation where the patient believes that a medication will make him worse. Give him a placebo and sure enough a significant number will have the "side effect" they expected.

[lightworker888]

that we are electro/magnetic beings, then why is it such a big leap to think that magnets would have some effect on a human system? Each being has a different electro/magnetic "signature" so I would think that the effects would be different for each person, but that doesn't mean that there would be no effect. Some effects might be positive and some negative, I would think. I do know personally of a practitioner who wore a magnetic bracelet fpr some time, and it really adversely affected her own electro/magnetic field. It took her 6 months to get back to a balance that felt "normal" for her. I have a bracelet but do not wear it for any length of time. If I think it might be useful, I will use it. In more recent years, there have been many other less intrusive therapies that I prefer.

Copper seems to have a vibration that helps some people with joint pain. I have used a bracelet and a ring, but have not found it personally as effective as other things. Colors each have unique vibrations and can be used effectively in many ways......but that's a whole other topic!

LW888

[TheVillageChicken]

Any documentation of a placebo curing anything vs just making people think they feel better?

[twinklesweep]

There have been scientific studies of the placebo effect by scientists with credentials in the field (as opposed to ignorant talk show hosts or guests looking to generate ratings or to market products), and it has been shown to exist. Do the effects last? Can true "cures" be effected, or is the response more in the area of "feel good"? Does the subject knowing he or she is taking a placebo affect the outcomes, versus those who do not know? Do placebo effects fail when subjects in a blind study are made aware that they have been given placebos? One has to peruse the studies to get specific answers.

Let's remember, though, that copper is non-ferrous, that is, not magnetic! Does it work, even knowing this? I have no clue....

[lightworker888]

Does anecdotal count as "documentation" or is it just double blind testing that "counts". Homeopathic remedies could be considered "pacebos" to some people. Some think that folk remedies are placebos. The question also suggests that "feeling better" is somehow not part of the "curing " process.

My understanding and belief is that the body always is working towards health and healing and when we feel good, it is a symptom that we are supporting the body to heal, through what we take in physically, mentally and spiritually. The input includes food, air, the clothes we wear, the environs noticed and unnoticed, as well as millions of other factors that may or may not be conscious, especially our self talk. We all are doing our best to keep ourselves healthy and every bit of info that catches our attention is useful, either to file away, utillize or dismiss, depending on our awareness at the moment of the subject.

Have you ever noticed how info about a subject that you are interested in will come into your awareness, through many avenues. It is all out there and it is available to all,but we can only attend to so much without getting overwhelmed.

My strategy is to believe it is someone's truth at some moment in time and to decide if it is useful for me at this moment to use or to file. I tend not to dismiss completely any info, though a lot of things get forgotten, especially as I get older, but I usually remember again if the subject crosses my desk and if it comes across a few times, then the subject gets revisited and often becomes part of my bigger picture and triggers more investigation.

So for me the word "placebo" is very loaded and often is worth considering rather than a "drug". This is just a personal strategy, and in no way a "prescription" for how others should choose. We all have to live with our choices so I tend to choose what I believe will be the least invasive to the internal "soup"
and the most supportive regardless of the "source". If it somehow resonates I might try it to see how my system responds. We are really the best authority about ourselves if we can learn to listen to our body and the messages it is always sending.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

LW888

[dewilson58]

.


:read: :read:

[Villages PL]

Despite the cries of baloney, the placebo effect is a subject of lots of interesting well designed research. One of my favorite studies was where the patients were told they were to receive a pain medication. Some were told it was an inexpensive pill, others that it was extremely expensive. JAMA. 2008 Mar 5;299(9):1016-7
Of course you know which pill worked better.

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1965 Apr;12:36-45.
" In one study that used placebos, the patients were even told openly that they were receiving a tablet without any active substance. The only additional comment that was allowed was that �it had helped many people.� Despite the objective information about the absence of any active ingredient, this positive remark ensured that the placebo administration was effective in 13 out of 14 patients and reduced their subjective symptoms by 41%"

There is even an opposite situation where the patient believes that a medication will make him worse. Give him a placebo and sure enough a significant number will have the "side effect" they expected.

Thank you, blueash. Some people are so quick to say baloney just because they probably have never heard or read about it.

[Villages PL]

There have been scientific studies of the placebo effect by scientists with credentials in the field (as opposed to ignorant talk show hosts or guests looking to generate ratings or to market products), and it has been shown to exist. Do the effects last? Can true "cures" be effected, or is the response more in the area of "feel good"? Does the subject knowing he or she is taking a placebo affect the outcomes, versus those who do not know? Do placebo effects fail when subjects in a blind study are made aware that they have been given placebos? One has to peruse the studies to get specific answers.

Let's remember, though, that copper is non-ferrous, that is, not magnetic! Does it work, even knowing this? I have no clue....

Drug companies carry out double blind studies and often there is a large placebo effect for those who get the placebo. In order for a drug to be approved, it only has to be marginally better than the placebo. For example, let's say 40% of people notice improvement in the control group and 45% find improvement with the active ingredient. That could be considered a success.

[Villages PL]

that we are electro/magnetic beings, then why is it such a big leap to think that magnets would have some effect on a human system? Each being has a different electro/magnetic "signature" so I would think that the effects would be different for each person, but that doesn't mean that there would be no effect. Some effects might be positive and some negative, I would think. I do know personally of a practitioner who wore a magnetic bracelet fpr some time, and it really adversely affected her own electro/magnetic field. It took her 6 months to get back to a balance that felt "normal" for her. I have a bracelet but do not wear it for any length of time. If I think it might be useful, I will use it. In more recent years, there have been many other less intrusive therapies that I prefer.

Copper seems to have a vibration that helps some people with joint pain. I have used a bracelet and a ring, but have not found it personally as effective as other things. Colors each have unique vibrations and can be used effectively in many ways......but that's a whole other topic!

LW888

It may be that we are electo-magnetic beings, but, as you have indicated, trying to use that fact to find a treatment for something is another story. The results are inconsistent and may be harmful, so I don't think we should risk experimenting on ourselves