Stonecrest still wants free use of The Villages

[Peachie]

If you read past the article in the ************ about the new bridge over Colony Boulevard, you will find an article stating that Stonecrest is still on the attack against The Villages gates. Stonecrest, according to the article, has petitioned Mark Rubio, Marlene O'Toole and Senator Bill Nelson to allow them cart access to The Villages so they can use carts rather than cars or taxis.

If this petition is allowed and the gates are open, The Villages property owners will see all the surrounding communities and subdivisions adjacent to The Villages requiring the same access.

Stonecresters, do the same thing the neighbors in the adjacent properties do; drive your cars in or call a cab! Probably the funniest line in the articles is a statement that Stonecresters will not go quietly into the night. So they are insistent in having the advantages of living in The Villages and don't want to pay the piper?

A petition from Villagers to these same "decision makers" may be necessary to block to open season on The Villages gates.

Link: http colon backslash backslash www dot villages dash news period com backlash stonecresters dash giving dash golf dash cart dash access dash villages backslash

Now we will most likely hear from Stonecresters saying how nasty we Villagers are for not handing our goods out to them, sigh....

[Cobh521]

I am willing to sign a petition. How can a petition be created and given to the government officials that Stonecrest appealed to?

[2BNTV]

If you read past the article in the villages news about the new bridge over Colony Boulevard, you will find an article stating that Stonecrest is still on the attack against The Villages gates. Stonecrest, according to the article, has petitioned Mark Rubio, Marlene O'Toole and Senator Bill Nelson to allow them cart access to The Villages so they can use carts rather than cars or taxis.

If this petition is allowed and the gates are open, The Villages property owners will see all the surrounding communities and subdivisions adjacent to The Villages requiring the same access.

Stonecresters, do the same thing the neighbors in the adjacent properties do; drive your cars in or call a cab! Probably the funniest line in the articles is a statement that Stonecresters will not go quietly into the night. So they are insistent in having the advantages of living in The Villages and don't want to pay the piper?

A petition from Villagers to these same "decision makers" may be necessary to block to open season on The Villages gates.

Now we will most likely hear from Stonecresters saying how nasty we Villagers are for not handing our goods out to them, sigh....

Peachie:

Their arguments should be at the Stonecrest marketing department, for advertising they would have access to TV, as the other thread talked about.
These unhappy people will only make themselves miserable, as possession of nine tenth of the law and Mr. Morse has the 90%. Ownership can be a beautiful thing, as I don't think he will allow this intrusion to happen. It's his property, to do as he pleases.

"I have said before, it sounds like a case of people, wanting to have their cake and eat it too!!" If they wanted access sooooooo bad, they should have purchased in TV.

Nuff said......

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I'm in. If they want what TV has to offer, move to TV

[Peachie]

Peachie:

Their arguments should be at the Stonecrest marketing department, for advertising they would have access to TV, as the other thread talked about.
These unhappy people will only make themselves miserable, as possession of nine tenth of the law and Mr. Morse has the 90%. Ownership can be a beautiful thing, as I don't think he will allow this intrusion to happen. It's his property, to do as he pleases.

"I have said before, it sounds like a case of people, wanting to have their cake and eat it too!!" If they wanted access sooooooo bad, they should have purchased in TV.

Nuff said......

I agree, 2BNTV, and to me it's not meanness of The Villagers; it's an adjacent neighborhood coveting what is being paid for by Villagers funds.

[2BNTV]

I agree, 2BNTV, and to me it's not meanness of The Villagers; it's an adjacent neighborhood coveting what is being paid for by Villagers funds.

I totally agree with you. It must be a human nature thing, as some people have a sense of entitlement, especially as one ages. I remember a guy going to the front of the line at a bakery, and when I mention there was a line, He said, I am a senior citizen. DUH what was I, a teenager?

Must people say there is no cure for stupid. I would add, :arrogance" to the list.

Go figure.........

[Carl in Tampa]

One would hope that the Morse family would actively oppose the effort.

I'm not sure I understand what the petitioners think the federal Senators are in a position to do to help them get access.

Could someone enlighten me?

:undecided:

[DonH57]

I agree. It's sad if true the Stonecrest marketing dept made promises that could not be kept and had no original control over. I feel they are wasting their time petitioning politicians. The gate is on private property . It never connected automobile traffic as a public owned thru way. What would these people do if the power company decides tomorrow to close off the present cut thru currently used as a courtesy? That's sad but the way it goes.

[beekman]

Outside communities making such demands are nothing but freeloaders. They do want the best of both worlds. Their request should be DENIED at all levels. They were sold a bill of goods by deceptive marketing and cheaper home prices.

[ricthemic]

Last summer at a super market check out counter on Cape Cod I was wearing Villages golf hat. The lady in front of me asked if i lived in TV. I said yes, told her which village and asked if she did too and which village. Her reply, " Yes, Stonecrest"...
Let me know where and when to sign the petition for the lifestyle we purchased.

[Cajulian]

How hypocritical some of us are In TV.

Comments here state that what if the Energy company turned off access to their land and then Stonecresters can't use their path to get to the gate to come into TV's and use our paths for free.

Well it seems to me there are more of us from TV's that want to go thru that same gate and use the Energy Company's private property to get to Walmart, Aldi's ect. Free use of others property by TV's.

What? We want our cake and eat it too, by doing the same thing Stonecresters want to do!!

How is that any different. Why do some here call them freeloaders and not TV'rs, doing the same thing. Way too hypocritical.

A little Kindness goes a long way. Have a nice night.

[OBXNana]

We inquired about many communities when we began looking for our retirement years. I honestly thought Stonecrest was part of The Villages until I read this thread. Many of their Realtors advertise it's a neighboring community, with use of The Villages facility's without the hustle, bustle of the larger retirement community. We are not buying in Stonecrest, but had we done so, we would have been the person in the grocery store that said we lived in The Villages!

[njbchbum]

How hypocritical some of us are In TV.

Comments here state that what if the Energy company turned off access to their land and then Stonecresters can't use their path to get to the gate to come into TV's and use our paths for free.

Well it seems to me there are more of us from TV's that want to go thru that same gate and use the Energy Company's private property to get to Walmart, Aldi's ect. Free use of others property by TV's.

What? We want our cake and eat it too, by doing the same thing Stonecresters want to do!!

How is that any different. Why do some here call them freeloaders and not TV'rs, doing the same thing. Way too hypocritical.

A little Kindness goes a long way. Have a nice night.

Sorry Cajulian! Villagers cross Mr. Brown's property with his expressed permission and facilitation! That's how it is different!

It is only those who travel on to Aldi's that cross the energy company's land.

[manaboutown]

On my last visit to The Villages where I was renting a home for a month with all Villages privileges I approached the Stonecrest gate in a car and asked to be admitted. The guard was pleasant but refused to allow me to enter the community.

It seems to me that if Villagers are not allowed to enter their truly gated community where the roads are maintained by the residents, Stonecresters should not have access to Villages amenities such as the cart paths; the roads which are public in spite of the gates, certainly, but not the cart paths. If they want access let them drive cars to where they are going. If they are on the cart paths they are trespassing.

[ALR5ALR]

we the villages on the east side must be vigilant that golf carts that don't belong on our paths do not get in tailgating as your using your card at that gate, or they'll wait outside the gate and tell you they forgot their card in their pool bag, yea right,they know how to work the system. go see how many outsiders are playing pickel ball on our dime.....look how many outsiders have easy entrance to katie bell's your private club while residents wait in line for a table...

[Carl in Tampa]

Outside communities making such demands are nothing but freeloaders. They do want the best of both worlds. Their request should be DENIED at all levels. They were sold a bill of goods by deceptive marketing and cheaper home prices.

Not knowing much about Stonecrest, I did a browser search. I couldn't find a site that told the population of the development but I found several real estate sites regarding the area.

One specifically stated: "While the area of Summerfield is fairly rural, The Villages provides conveniences and amenities, which are accessible to Stonecrest residents via golf carts. The Villages contains approximately 200 retail stores - including local boutiques, chain stores, and brand favorites - and 60 restaurants."

Beekman appears to be right. Real Estate sales pitches indicate that Stonecrest residents are free to visit The Villages by golf cart.

(Perhaps they should be reported to the appropriate state agency for deceptive advertising. Morse family, how about it?)

OBXNana almost gives a word for word quote from the sales site: "Many residents of Stonecrest enjoy living here because it offers the nearby conveniences of life in The Villages, but without the hustle and bustle found in larger communities."

I also found the post by the person who was denied entrance through the Stonecrest automobile gate to be instructive.

Does anyone know the population of Stonecrest? I'm wondering how many "visitors" would be added to the daily vehicle load on the golf cart paths if they were given free access.

In any case, at the risk of being accused of being unfriendly, I don't see allowing the use of our privately funded golf cart (multi-use) paths by people who do not contribute financially to their upkeep. (I reject the accusation of being unfriendly.)

:spoken:

[Peachie]

[QUOTE=Carl in Tampa;794550]Not knowing much about Stonecrest, I did a browser search. I couldn't find a site that told the population of the development but I found several real estate sites regarding the area.
Does anyone know the population of Stonecrest? I'm wondering how many "visitors" would be added to the daily vehicle load on the golf cart paths if they were given free access.



Carl, if this access would be deemed allowable by any of the individuals contacted by Stonecresters, The Villages would be unable to shut off any access to The Villages. A precedent would be set that it's a "convenience" to outside subdivisions. Spruce Creek South is closer to The Villages than Stonecrest, why in this instance, would they then be denied access along with other areas?

[llaran]

We need Stonecrest and any other outsiders, we need them to go to the stores, restaurants, movies. Golf carts take far less room when parking. All the squares are public areas, oh and I forgot to mention churches.

[Peachie]

We need Stonecrest and any other outsiders, we need them to go to the stores, restaurants, movies. Golf carts take far less room when parking. All the squares are public areas, oh and I forgot to mention churches.

Absolutely, they are welcome and when they bought outside the golf cart community of The Villages, they should have made sure they had the vehicles to make themselves happy with their choice of avoiding living in The Villages.

[rubicon]

There are a number of people who appear to lose sight of the relevant issue.
Simply stated the gate was not erected to keep people out. It was erected to keep people who are not residents of The Villages access to use their golf carts on private cart paths paid for by residents of The Villages. In that same vein non-residents are welcome to come to The Villages via cars.

Additionally many villagers also utilize their cars to go to the square, their doctor's office or to a restaurant. Personally I only use my golf cart for golf.

As to the charge that village residents are hypocrites as to use of private property beyond the gate well those establishments have made their locations golf cart accessible and that has nothing to do with The villages as it is an open invitation.

The Developer must not blink on this issue because his marketing specifically states you are buying the LifeStyle. If residents find that anyone can have access well.............

If StoneCrest realtors advertise use of The Villages amenities then I believe StoneCrest residents have a beef with them not The Villages

Stand firm Developer because there are a whole lot of non-residents in the surrounding area ready to make a mad dash across that Lifestyle line without paying their amenities fees

[justjim]

It has been documented on another Thread that we are only talking about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less, crossing over to TV a day from Stonecrest. Most Stonecresters drive their cars over to the commercial areas of TV.

Apparently there are a few who only have access by golf cart because they don't have a drivers license. There are a number of residents of TV who are in the same boat and without a drivers license. Indeed, this does severely restrict the mobility of some and that is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) for the fight to gain access to the medical and commercial areas of The Villages via a golf cart.

For some, the entire issue is mute if you purchase a Street Legal golf cart. However, you must have a valid Drivers License for a Street Legal Golf Cart. So a Street Legal cart does not solve the mobility issue for a few Villagers and Stonecresters.

If we were in this boat with them, perhaps we would look at things differently.

[Peachie]

It has been documented on another Thread that we are only talking about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less, crossing over to TV a day from Stonecrest. Most Stonecresters drive their cars over to the commercial areas of TV.

Apparently there are a few who only have access by golf cart because they don't have a drivers license. There are a number of residents of TV who are in the same boat and without a drivers license. Indeed, this does severely restrict the mobility of some and that is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) for the fight to gain access to the medical and commercial areas of The Villages via a golf cart.

For some, the entire issue is mute if you purchase a Street Legal golf cart. However, you must have a valid Drivers License for a Street Legal Golf Cart. So a Street Legal cart does not solve the mobility issue for a few Villagers and Stonecresters.

If we were in this boat with them, perhaps we would look at things differently.


As I stated earlier in this thread; "if this access would be deemed allowable, by any of the individuals contacted by Stonecresters, The Villages would be unable to shut off any access to The Villages. A precedent would be set that it's a "convenience" to outside subdivisions. Spruce Creek South is closer to The Villages than Stonecrest, why in this instance, would they then be denied access along with other areas?"

The Villages residents aren't in that boat, Jim, because we elected to pay the piper for the golf cart accessible lifestyle.

Rubicon, your response to this matter was excellent.

[njbchbum]

It has been documented on another Thread that we are only talking about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less, crossing over to TV a day from Stonecrest. Most Stonecresters drive their cars over to the commercial areas of TV.

Apparently there are a few who only have access by golf cart because they don't have a drivers license. There are a number of residents of TV who are in the same boat and without a drivers license. Indeed, this does severely restrict the mobility of some and that is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) for the fight to gain access to the medical and commercial areas of The Villages via a golf cart.

For some, the entire issue is mute if you purchase a Street Legal golf cart. However, you must have a valid Drivers License for a Street Legal Golf Cart. So a Street Legal cart does not solve the mobility issue for a few Villagers and Stonecresters.

If we were in this boat with them, perhaps we would look at things differently.

How was that documentation "...about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less..." developed - do you know it is reliable?

Perhaps the Stonecresters should be petitioning those politicians for an appropriate gold cart access point so that their medical/shopping needs can be met - rather than asking them for permission to enter property they do not own and to which the owner has denied.

[justjim]

As I stated earlier in this thread; "if this access would be deemed allowable, by any of the individuals contacted by Stonecresters, The Villages would be unable to shut off any access to The Villages. A precedent would be set that it's a "convenience" to outside subdivisions. Spruce Creek South is closer to The Villages than Stonecrest, why in this instance, would they then be denied access along with other areas?"

The Villages residents aren't in that boat, Jim, because we elected to pay the piper for the golf cart accessible lifestyle.

Rubicon, your response to this matter was excellent.

So if you are a Stonecrester and have a drivers license and purchase a Street Legal golf cart, you can use TV's Multi Modal Trails but if you are a Stonecrester and have a regular golf cart you can't use the golf cart trails to go to your doctors or hospital or favorite eating establishment.

[justjim]

How was that documentation "...about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less..." developed - do you know it is reliable?

Perhaps the Stonecresters should be petitioning those politicians for an appropriate gold cart access point so that their medical/shopping needs can be met - rather than asking them for permission to enter property they do not own and to which the owner has denied.

Was the 20 or less a valid reliable survey----quick answer is no. It was just a number given by A long time resident of Stonecrest as I remember the previous Thread on this subject.

A precedent was set many years ago on golf cart access to TV. Personally I have no dog in this fight but I do understand when a precedent is set for many years it becomes rather cumbersome to undo that action. It could be interesting how this will play out if it is pursued in the courts.

[Peachie]

Was the 20 or less a valid reliable survey----quick answer is no. It was just a number given by A long time resident of Stonecrest as I remember the previous Thread on this subject.

A precedent was set many years ago on golf cart access to TV. Personally I have no dog in this fight but I do understand when a precedent is set for many years it becomes rather cumbersome to undo that action. It could be interesting how this will play out if it is pursued in the courts.

Jim, I don't know if my info is correct, but I believe from earlier discussion about this gate was that it was still in place in 2007 but was constantly being vandalized. I don't think the courts reward people for destroying gates.

[patfla06]

There are a number of people who appear to lose sight of the relevant issue.
Simply stated the gate was not erected to keep people out. It was erected to keep people who are not residents of The Villages access to use their golf carts on private cart paths paid for by residents of The Villages. In that same vein non-residents are welcome to come to The Villages via cars.

Additionally many villagers also utilize their cars to go to the square, their doctor's office or to a restaurant. Personally I only use my golf cart for golf.

As to the charge that village residents are hypocrites as to use of private property beyond the gate well those establishments have made their locations golf cart accessible and that has nothing to do with The villages as it is an open invitation.

The Developer must not blink on this issue because his marketing specifically states you are buying the LifeStyle. If residents find that anyone can have access well.............

If StoneCrest realtors advertise use of The Villages amenities then I believe StoneCrest residents have a beef with them not The Villages

Stand firm Developer because there are a whole lot of non-residents in the surrounding area ready to make a mad dash across that Lifestyle line without paying their amenities fees

Very well said.

The sense of entitlement growing in this country is amazing.
You don't get a free ride if you don't pay for the ride.

[Carl in Tampa]

So if you are a Stonecrester and have a drivers license and purchase a Street Legal golf cart, you can use TV's Multi Modal Trails but if you are a Stonecrester and have a regular golf cart you can't use the golf cart trails to go to your doctors or hospital or favorite eating establishment.

A Stonecrester with an LSV can legally drive on the streets of TV but could still be prohibited from using the multi-modal paths. It would require some work on the part of the Developer to detect the offenders and issue them a "Trespass Warning" but it could be accomplished if the Developer has the will to do it.

Once warned, the offender could be arrested if there were a repeat violation, The fact that the LSVs are required to have a license tag would make enforcement easier.

:police: :police: :police:

[Peachie]

DITTO.

P.S. HAS ANYONE EVER VISITED "TOPIX" FORUM TO SEE WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT FOLKS IN THE VILLAGES? A REAL MIND OPENER.

I believe the good people of The Villages realize there is much jealousy and coveting in the world and that Topix forum is not "a real mind opener" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Peachie]

[QUOTE=senior citizen;794559]DITTO.

This all reminds me of little kids not letting someone new into their sandbox. I'm sure the people who reside in Stonecrest are exactly the same as the folks who reside in THE VILLAGES.......perhaps they just wanted a less crowded area for their retirement home. That should not mean they aren't to "cross the border" to shop, do business or use the health facilities, restaurants, etc. in The Villages......or visit their friends.




Senior, perhaps you are confusing us with Stonecrest... they are the locked and gated community. Any Stonecrester can hop in their car and "cross any borders" anytime into The Villages Squares, health facilities, hospital, etc. Stonecrest is the subdivision that will not allow any access without their permission. Keeps the unanointed out, I guess.

[Joaniesmom]

A little off topic, but DH and I wanted a peek at Stonecrest a week ago. Drove up, was greeted in a friendly way and given a map of the place. Glad I live in TV though.

That's just my $0.02!

[senior citizen]

A little off topic, but DH and I wanted a peek at Stonecrest a week ago. Drove up, was greeted in a friendly way and given a map of the place. Glad I live in TV though.

That's just my $0.02!


Your $0.02 is very worthwhile; thanks for sharing.

[redwitch]

I could see charging a fee for Stonecresters, et al. paying an annual fee to get a special gate pass. That way, they would be contributing to maintaining the paths they use. Seems fair to me.

This does NOT give them access to our amenities -- you still need a TV ID card to use those (if the folks at the rec centers would bother checking). Yes, there are some who have found a way to skirt these rules and do use our rec centers, pools and courts but these folks will always find a way to get what they want. If you find such a person, report them!

[graciegirl]

On the first of January and for the three months after that we are at out TOP population here and there are many, many, many accidents in golf carts and cars and some will be fatal. It happens every year. Two thousand MORE golf carts from Stonecrest would just add to the danger.


You can say that we keep building. You can say I am not kind. You can say that it isn't fair, but they don't pay to live here and we don't pay to live there.


Sometimes there just has to be a bottom line.

[2BNTV]

I know a person from Stonecrest, who would never use the cart path for access to TV, as he will use his own car. He seems to be the exception, in this issue, over reopening, of this cart path. I will have to ask his input on this issue, assuming he is even aware of it.

Maybe it's me but why would anyone think they can have something without having to pay for it. I realize there are people who steal, and I like the idea of paying for this priviledge.

This issue to me is, that some people want access, without having to pay the toll fee.

Either way, I see Mr. Morse having total control, unless he relinquishes his rights, and gives into the pressure brought to bear, by these acrimonious people. Civil liberties angle, is bogus. IMHO.

Like me or don't like me, I stand by what I say.

[senior citizen]

I know a person from Stonecrest, who would never use the cart path for access to TV, as he will use his own car. He seems to be the exception, in this issue, over reopening, of this cart path. I will have to ask his input on this issue, assuming he is even aware of it.

Maybe it's me but why would anyone think they can have something without having to pay for it. I realize there are people who steal, and I like the idea of paying for this priviledge.

This issue to me is, that some people want access, without having to pay the toll fee.

Either way, I see Mr. Morse having total control, unless he relinquishes his rights, and gives into the pressure brought to bear, by these acrimonious people. Civil liberties angle, is bogus. IMHO.

Like me or don't like me, I stand by what I say.



Maybe I'm missing something.......but those "highways" that "run through The Villages" such as where Red Lobster, I.H.O.P., etc. are located, are PUBLIC ROADS........and those businesses are open to all the public, correct? So, as long as a person from "away" such as we were when visiting for over one month, and renting, ditto........can drive our car to frequent all of these public businesses. So can those who live outside.


Ditto for the hospital and the Vets hospital. Both beautiful buildings by the way. Ditto for all the medical practices. They are not just for the residents of The Villages, correct?


I do "get" and understand the over congestion problem and the traffic issues..........we ourselves haven't lived in such a populated area since we left our childhood homes at age 20. Now 68, so that is a long long time ago. 100,000 souls is a bit daunting.......however, it was laid out so well, it didn't feel that HUGE. Hearing the "stories" about the traffic and the bad drivers is also a bit scary, to say the least.


As for someone else posting a snide remark about not having an "investment" in TV, we soon will. We've owned our share of homes over our lifetime.........we don't consider everything an investment...simply a place to nurture our children, our loved ones and create a "home".

Actually, I've never thought of our house as an investment. Maybe someone who has not owned as many homes as we have might, but life is short, and that "investment" will be left to others........not sure of the facts, but with all the homes and resale homes, people must be exiting TV as fast a they are clamoring to arrive............not sure, but could be. This is why we do the research.........to find out why.


We found The Villages to be a very attractive and well thought out 55+ community; we were truly impressed with its beauty and the fact that it has so many "services" for all.........

[Peachie]

A little off topic, but DH and I wanted a peek at Stonecrest a week ago. Drove up, was greeted in a friendly way and given a map of the place. Glad I live in TV though.

That's just my $0.02!

I think if you drove up to one of the sales offices in The Villages, Joaniesmom, they would also be very pleasant with you and provide literature to you. But they wouldn't make you leave the Square at that point. :icon_wink:

[karostay]

If the developers had let sleeping dogs lay
There would be no issue

[Cisco Kid]

How many other places like Stonecrest could be connected to TV by opening up a hole in the wall ?
It's only fair to let them all in, if you let one in.
And if you are in a giving mood if every Villager would send me 2 bucks I could get a free villa now and miss the snow storm that is coming @ me.

[Peachie]

Maybe I'm missing something.......but those "highways" that "run through The Villages" such as where Red Lobster, I.H.O.P., etc. are located, are PUBLIC ROADS........and those businesses are open to all the public, correct? So, as long as a person from "away" such as we were when visiting for over one month, and renting, ditto........can drive our car to frequent all of these public businesses. So can those who live outside.


Ditto for the hospital and the Vets hospital. Both beautiful buildings by the way. Ditto for all the medical practices. They are not just for the residents of The Villages, correct?


I do "get" and understand the over congestion problem and the traffic issues..........we ourselves haven't lived in such a populated area since we left our childhood homes at age 20. Now 68, so that is a long long time ago. 100,000 souls is a bit daunting.......however, it was laid out so well, it didn't feel that HUGE. Hearing the "stories" about the traffic and the bad drivers is also a bit scary, to say the least.


As for someone else posting a snide remark about not having an "investment" in TV, we soon will. We've owned our share of homes over our lifetime.........we don't consider everything an investment...simply a place to nurture our children, our loved ones and create a "home".

Actually, I've never thought of our house as an investment. Maybe someone who has not owned as many homes as we have might, but life is short, and that "investment" will be left to others........not sure of the facts, but with all the homes and resale homes, people must be exiting TV as fast a they are clamoring to arrive............not sure, but could be. This is why we do the research.........to find out why.


We found The Villages to be a very attractive and well thought out 55+ community; we were truly impressed with its beauty and the fact that it has so many "services" for all.........


The investment of which I spoke is for now, our current home and lifestyle. You can bet the fish in the bowl that if all the surrounding communities are allowed open access for their "convenience" to The Village cart paths, you will see a HUGE mind shift in the population. Many of us will move on; some of us will turn our property into rentals and take the money and run. There is much short-sightedness by some who insist The Villages residents shouldn't be concerned about open paths to the general public.

[Skybo]

It has been documented on another Thread that we are only talking about 20 or so golf carts, maybe less, crossing over to TV a day from Stonecrest. Most Stonecresters drive their cars over to the commercial areas of TV.

Apparently there are a few who only have access by golf cart because they don't have a drivers license. There are a number of residents of TV who are in the same boat and without a drivers license. Indeed, this does severely restrict the mobility of some and that is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) for the fight to gain access to the medical and commercial areas of The Villages via a golf cart.

For some, the entire issue is mute if you purchase a Street Legal golf cart. However, you must have a valid Drivers License for a Street Legal Golf Cart. So a Street Legal cart does not solve the mobility issue for a few Villagers and Stonecresters.

If we were in this boat with them, perhaps we would look at things differently.

It seems to me the estimated number of Stonecrest residents who access The Villages via golf carts changes dramatically depending on what they are trying to accomplish.

When talking about impact and traffic on the multi-modal trails they (Stonecrest residents and Village residents who support their cause) estimate the numbers to be very low, ie the "20 or so golf cart figure".

Then in the next breath we are told how important their golf cart access is to support the commercial venues and how allowing golf carts makes such a big difference in parking spaces.

Are we to believe that 20 golf carts per day is going to have such a big impact on commerce and parking? Are we to believe that the Stonecrest Board Committee is reaching out to US Senators on behalf of 20 people? No...in fact in the referenced article, Genie Beaulieu, chair of the Stonecrest Board Committee, stated that "MANY of these people don’t have drivers’ licenses". How many is many, I don't know, but I think it is way more than the "few" that is often quoted.

I guess my point is, you can't have it both ways. You can't downplay the numbers when it fits one scenario, and then turn around and up the numbers when it fits another scenario.

And most importantly (to me), is the precedent that Peachie and others have brought up numerous times.

When the developer was in talks about the purchase of the land in Fruitland Park, the Fruitland Park commissioners specifically asked for golf cart access onto TV for (non-TV) Fruitland Park residents. The Developer said "no, that would be a deal breaker".

I'm sure that there are plenty of people in Fruitland Park who don't have driver's licenses, as well as people who do have driver's licenses, who would love golf cart access to medical, shopping, dining and entertainment venues in The Villages. But Fruitland Park isn't a retirement community. Some people don't have driver's licenses because they aren't old enough to drive a car. But they would be old enough to drive a golf cart. Do we want up to a couple thousand non residents of all ages driving golf carts through the community? The FP commissioners specifically mentioned access to Colony stores and facilities. Does Colony need more golf cart traffic?

I'm of the opinion that it was the FP issue that started all of this. The erection of the wall and later the gate closely coincided with the FP purchase. It's my personal belief that the developer was advised that having outside golf cart access at one location could set a legal precedent that would force us to allow outside golf cart access from other communities. I could be wrong, but the timing of it sure makes it look that way.

[Cisco Kid]

The investment of which I spoke is for now, our current home and lifestyle. You can bet the fish in the bowl that if all the surrounding communities are allowed open access for their "convenience" to The Village cart paths, you will see a HUGE mind shift in the population. Many of us will move on; some of us will turn our property into rentals and take the money and run. There is much short-sightedness by some who insist The Villages residents shouldn't be concerned about open paths to the general public.

You are very wise grasshopper.

[createquilts]

Another consideration. The area west of brownwood is getting ready to be built. It will not be far from Wildwood. Just south of the Pinellas library there is a sign for an apartment type complex to be built. Just west of the library there is construction going on of housing units. While I am sure there are many lovely people who live in those areas, I don't see how you can allow one group of residents use of something without everyone else being granted the same privilege. What about recreation plantation? They are pretty close too.
An interesting thing happened when we were getting ready to move here. A friend of ours told us his mom lived right outside the villages. He could not understand why we would move here when you could live outside like his mom and have access "to all the villages has to offer".
We love it here. I love the people, love to be able to have one car and get wherever we want , and love to ride the paths in the cart. I love the activities, centers, pools...I could go on and on. We paid more to get more. But it isn't about being snobby. It has everything to do with managing paths that are already crowded

[NotGolfer]

My question...was Spruce Creek here after THE VILLAGES or about the same time? Their developer apparently wanted to "piggy back" on to a good thing and did so by advertising as he did.

Then, a developer may do what he wants with his development without the regards of other developments!!! So S.C. folks "got to" drive their carts, in the past...it was/is a privilege and NOT a right!

[chuck90199]

They still advertise cart access to The Villages. This is on their website this morning.

At the Stone Crest Country Club you can enjoy two golf courses, play on our lighted tennis courts and pickle-ball courts, swim in the heated indoor pool or any of the outdoor pools throughout the community. Play shuffleboard, bocce ball or softball on our new softball field. Get in shape at the community gym. And take a short golf cart ride to all the amenities in The Villages, including shopping, healthcare and entertainment.

Maybe The Villages could sell them a "license sticker" for their golf carts to allow access to our multi-modal paths.

[TVMayor]

A Stonecrester with an LSV can legally drive on the streets of TV but could still be prohibited from using the multi-modal paths. It would require some work on the part of the Developer to detect the offenders and issue them a "Trespass Warning" but it could be accomplished if the Developer has the will to do it.

Once warned, the offender could be arrested if there were a repeat violation, The fact that the LSVs are required to have a license tag would make enforcement easier.

:police: :police: :police:
Who would issue the “Trespass Warning” a new “Village Home Land Security Department”? One fully trained in police work? To cover the area of the TV would 10 officers be sufficient? How much money will be diverted from my amenity fees to fund this?

What return would I receive for my money?

[Steve & Deanna]

On my last visit to The Villages where I was renting a home for a month with all Villages privileges I approached the Stonecrest gate in a car and asked to be admitted. The guard was pleasant but refused to allow me to enter the community.

It seems to me that if Villagers are not allowed to enter their truly gated community where the roads are maintained by the residents, Stonecresters should not have access to Villages amenities such as the cart paths; the roads which are public in spite of the gates, certainly, but not the cart paths. If they want access let them drive cars to where they are going. If they are on the cart paths they are trespassing.

We can attest to that. Years back when we were renting, we tried to enter also and the guard was quite adamant about providing us with a salesperson. W explained that we were not buyers but merely wanted t look around....and that's what happened...we were turned around....and guess where we bought? Happy to be in The Villages

[VillageGeek]

My concern is this. If the gate is permitted, what precedent would this set? Would The Villages then have to take down some four board fencing (and how much) to allow other communities outside The Villages golf car access? It blows my mind to think how many 'outside' access points would have to be created throughout The Villages should this gate be permitted. And there are a lot of Villages' neighborhoods backing to non-villages property.......not necessarily thoroughfares designed to carry larger traffic volume (such as Morse, Buena Vista, El Camino Real, etc.) therefore allowing access into our neighborhoods.

Although the roads in The Villages are public, the idea behind putting up barriers between The Villages' property and non-Villages property is to promote the quaint, quiet neighborhood we all can retreat to in order to escape the 'hustle and bustle' of the commercial areas EVERYONE has access to. The idea of the gates is to deter anyone who may have ill intentions AND effectively direct traffic so we don't have people lost all over in here.......thus eliminating unnecessary traffic.

I really don't think a petition is going to amount to anything other than spite between Villages' residents & non-Villages' residents. However, I don't care. My favorite saying: "You gotta pay to play, baby." You want what The Villages offers, ante up.

Thanks for reading my post.

[DonH57]

I feel the discussion about the gate is getting insane.I really don't believe the gate will disappear. All the petitioning in the world of these politicians won't change any thing. I really doubt they would even concern themselves with the manner of the developer protecting private property. This cart path was never a public thruway for automobile use. It's private property. If the developer decided to allow others use of cart paths for a fee it would'nt bother me in the least. I have to pay to use it. So should others.

[DaleMN]

The Villages for Villagers. I say isolationism is the best foreign policy. :doh:

[Peachie]

The Villages for Villagers. I say isolationism is the best foreign policy. :doh:

May we assume you are referring to the gated community of Stonecrest?

[RVRoadie]

This issue will likely come up with the new Village of Fruitland Park. You may not be aware, but Fruitland Park allows golf carts on their residential roads. I suspect that the City Managers are going to require golf cart access as they go through the permitting process for the new village.

[Peachie]

This issue will likely come up with the new Village of Fruitland Park. You may not be aware, but Fruitland Park allows golf carts on their residential roads. I suspect that the City Managers are going to require golf cart access as they go through the permitting process for the new village.

I believe, from previous discussions, Mr. Morse said making the cart paths in The Villages public to Fruitland Park would be a deal breaker for the expansion in that area.

[lpkshop]

They can access all our stuff by car so what's the difference ? I don't see the problem

[NoMoSno]

I wonder why carts are allowed access through Mulberry, at the north end.
Carts are crossing 42 into TVs everyday...

[Bogie Shooter]

I wonder why carts are allowed access through Mulberry, at the north end.
Carts are crossing 42 into TVs everyday...

If so, then the crossers are breaking state law in crossing CR42.

[Steve9930]

Lets get the facts straight. Stonecrest is not petitioning to gain access to The Villages. The article is misleading in the fact that what a group in Stonecrest desires is a Golf Cart Crossing from the Doctors office area accross 441/27 to the Hospital area. This is not The Villages property. No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages.

[Steve9930]

Seems as I read all these posts that some people believe that the shops and restaurants are Village property. They do not belong to The Villages, they belong to the developer. They are a public enterprise open to the public.

[Bogie Shooter]

Lets get the facts straight. Stonecrest is not petitioning to gain access to The Villages. The article is misleading in the fact that what a group in Stonecrest desires is a Golf Cart Crossing from the Doctors office area accross 441/27 to the Hospital area. This is not The Villages property. No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages.

But...........once you cross 441/27 you do have access. Right?

[Steve9930]

[QUOTE=Carl in Tampa;794628]A Stonecrester with an LSV can legally drive on the streets of TV but could still be prohibited from using the multi-modal paths. It would require some work on the part of the Developer to detect the offenders and issue them a "Trespass Warning" but it could be accomplished if the Developer has the will to do it.

Once warned, the offender could be arrested if there were a repeat violation, The fact that the LSVs are required to have a license tag would make enforcement easier.

The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.

[Steve9930]

But...........once you cross 441/27 you do have access. Right?

So what's your point. This is what you bought into. You cannot legally restrict lawful access over public roads to anyone. The crossing is being requested from one public facility not owned by The Villages over a state highway. There is no Village authority being compromised.

[graciegirl]

Just to be clear. Steve9930 is from Stonecrest.

[Bogie Shooter]

Lets get the facts straight. Stonecrest is not petitioning to gain access to The Villages. The article is misleading in the fact that what a group in Stonecrest desires is a Golf Cart Crossing from the Doctors office area accross 441/27 to the Hospital area. This is not The Villages property. No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages.

So what's your point. This is what you bought into. You cannot legally restrict lawful access over public roads to anyone. The crossing is being requested from one public facility not owned by The Villages over a state highway. There is no Village authority being compromised.

My point is you say "No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages."
And I say once accross 441/27 you do have access.

"This is what you bought into.' Not sure what this means................and really don't care to know.

[justavillager]

Just to be clear. Steve9930 is from Stonecrest.

Where Steve9930 lives or doesn't live has nothing to do with his right to be in TV, use it's shops and restaurants, it's movie theatres (if he pays an extra 50 cents) it's bowling alleys etc.,etc. He would have the same rights if he were from Spruce Creek S., Del Webb Spruce Creek, Wildwood, Fruitland Park or Oshkosh. For the life of me I can't understand that some folks seem to think TV is a secure closed gated community that exists for their exclusive use. It's not.

[Steve9930]

Just to be clear. Steve9930 is from Stonecrest.

Just to be clear graciegirl is from the villages. Now what did that accomplish. What I wish is that people understand what they buy when they buy it. I've watched this whole wall thing since the onset. The facts are all the stores, shops, parking, Hospital, and roads do not belong to The Villages. It would serve everyone well if they understand how these communities are developed and what they actually purchased into before they kick the sand into the air.

[Steve9930]

My point is you say "No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages."
And I say once accross 441/27 you do have access.

"This is what you bought into.' Not sure what this means................and really don't care to know.

You cannot rewrite the law. You bought into an open access community. People that do not pay amenity fees are going to use your Golf cart Paths. That's what you bought into.

[looneycat]

You cannot rewrite the law. You bought into an open access community. People that do not pay amenity fees are going to use your Golf cart Paths. That's what you bought into.
you seem to be the one trying to rewrite the law, the only parts of the villages that must be open to the public are the roads and businesses,
the golf cart paths are NOT public, we villagers pay for their maintenance! outsiders are free to use golf cart trails on county roads which are open, but once you go onto one of the multi-modal paths you are on our private property! you don't contribute to their use. I'd be happy to see them open those gates again with a 5.00 use toll to go thru!

and if you think that the Villages does not have a stake in every business here you are very wrong! why don't you investigate (truly, not your bs claim of investigation) and see just what the deal is.

[SALYBOW]

If something were to happen to a Stonecrester or anyone else as they are on that stretch of path, the Villages could be held accountable.
Villagers are also told there are places they can not be, hence the "No Cars" or "No Carts" signs posted throughout the Villages. The developer has the right to protect themselves, and us, from litigation.
Stonecresters who are complaining seem to feel that they are entitled to use of the path because they were told by their developer that they would be, or maybe just because they exist.
The ads for Stonecrest play up the fact that it is cheaper to live there because they don't have to pay amenity fees. IMHO, the payment of amenity fees is the key issue here. The payment of amenity fees alone entitles a person to use the amenities. No Tickee... No Laundry! This is not a land of entitlement.
:spoken:

[looneycat]

[QUOTE=Carl in Tampa;794628]
The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.

so you don't know about the CDD system that GOVERNS The Villages? I don't know, this whole thing stinks of sour grapes from someone who thought that by buying outside the villages they could make use of facilities we paid for, wanna use the multi-modal paths? pay for the right like I do!

[jbdlfan]

The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.[/QUOTE]

?????????
How is driving an LSV any more dangerous than a golf cart while on a MM path????

[jbdlfan]

I know this won't be popular, but the Stonecresters may win this one. The wall was a totally different arguement(in my opinion). They are now asking to cross 441 for access to the hospital. That may actually fly. I get what the ral intent is and I don't care either way. But, knowing politicians, they will probably side with the idea of access to a medical facility. Just an opinion....

[njbchbum]

You cannot rewrite the law. You bought into an open access community. People that do not pay amenity fees are going to use your Golf cart Paths. That's what you bought into.

Steve9930 - where is it written that our 'open access community' provides any right for those not a member of our community to use their golf carts to access the things for which our amenities support and they do not?

[Steve9930]

Steve9930 - where is it written that our 'open access community' provides any right for those not a member of our community to use their golf carts to access the things for which our amenities support and they do not?

You understand you purchased into what is legally called a Political Municipality? Look up the definition and once you understand that then you'll understand what and why access will never be denied. Did it ever occur to you why you never see a Do Not Trespass sign anywhere? Why The Villages has no Mayor, or City Consul, or Police Force. Once you understand the law then write me a note.

[Steve9930]

you seem to be the one trying to rewrite the law, the only parts of the villages that must be open to the public are the roads and businesses,
the golf cart paths are NOT public, we villagers pay for their maintenance! outsiders are free to use golf cart trails on county roads which are open, but once you go onto one of the multi-modal paths you are on our private property! you don't contribute to their use. I'd be happy to see them open those gates again with a 5.00 use toll to go thru!

and if you think that the Villages does not have a stake in every business here you are very wrong! why don't you investigate (truly, not your bs claim of investigation) and see just what the deal is.

As a Political Municipality The Villages has no authority to collect fees from the general public. As for the stores, roads, and the like you are totally wrong about the villages having a stake in these buildings. They all belong to the developer. Its this kind of nonsense that has stirred the pot again, As far as I'm concerned I'd help you build a 50 foot wall around the whole place.

[cabo35]

What I wish is that people understand what they buy when they buy it.[/B] I've watched this whole wall thing since the onset. The facts are all the stores, shops, parking, Hospital, and roads do not belong to The Villages. It would serve everyone well if they understand how these communities are developed and what they actually purchased into before they kick the sand into the air.

I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I hope Stonecrestors get their access to hospitals, doctors, stores and shops legally across 441/27. They need to remember that the cart trails and paths in The Villages, except those sharing public roads, are NOT public, they are private, paid for and maintained by Villagers. I am sure Stonecrestors are honest and law abiding. I couldn't imagine them sneaking onto a cart path to get to, lets say, Lake Sumter Landing or Brownwood, or all those wonderful Villages funded, Villages lifestyle, exclusive amenities in between.

A few years back I played with a foursome at Lopez. One of the golfers, a Stonecrestor, was a friend of one of the foursome. He graciously invited the group to play at his home course at Stonecrest. I rode with him and was treated to a four hour presentation on why Stonecrest was a smarter and better investment than The Villages. He got more living space for less money. Lower maintenance cost and no trail fees. Real manned gates that kept the undesirables out and, as advertised, he had unfettered access to Village cart trails, bridges and most amenities. He emphasized how much less it cost him to live in Stonecrest several times. I think he liked me, he invited me back. I have not taken him up.

You are right Steve. Stonecrestors should "understand what they bought into". They should not be crying foul now and making Villagers the target of their frustration when someone issues a reality check. I am certain the great majority of Stonecrestors, like you, are good, honest, salt of the earth people with no axes to grind. A few have made harsh sometimes intimidating public statements that result in "in kind" responses that escalates ill feelings between good people of both communities.

Some have suggested a user fee as a compromise. That makes more sense than subsidizing endless and costly litigation.

[Steve9930]

[quote=Steve9930;794854]

so you don't know about the CDD system that GOVERNS The Villages? I don't know, this whole thing stinks of sour grapes from someone who thought that by buying outside the villages they could make use of facilities we paid for, wanna use the multi-modal paths? pay for the right like I do!

CDDs are Political Municipalities. They have no legal right to make any laws. Read the law. They do not have a right under the law to collect fees from the general public. Its the reason the developer could issue Tax Free Bonds. The only thing I see here is a lack of knowledge.

[Big O]

You understand you purchased into what is legally called a Political Municipality? Look up the definition and once you understand that then you'll understand what and why access will never be denied. Did it ever occur to you why you never see a Do Not Trespass sign anywhere? Why The Villages has no Mayor, or City Consul, or Police Force. Once you understand the law then write me a note.

If you are talking about the roads I might agree, but the golf cart paths are privately funded and not part of the Municipality. This is just my opinion as well as everything else in this thread is just somebody's opinion. Just like a number of other issues we will have to wait until the judge rules, everything else is pure conjecture.

Just sayin......

[Steve9930]

The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.

?????????
How is driving an LSV any more dangerous than a golf cart while on a MM path????[/QUOTE]

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.

[Steve9930]

I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I hope Stonecrestors get their access to hospitals, doctors, stores and shops legally across 441/27. They need to remember that the cart trails and paths in The Villages, except those sharing public roads, are NOT public, they are private, paid for and maintained by Villagers. I am sure Stonecrestors are honest and law abiding. I couldn't imagine them sneaking onto a cart path to get to, lets say, Lake Sumter Landing or Brownwood, or all those wonderful Villages funded, Villages lifestyle, exclusive amenities in between.

A few years back I played with foursome at Lopez. One of the golfers, a Stonecrestor, was a friend of one of the foursome. He graciously invited the group to play at his home course at Stonecrest. I rode with him and was treated to a four hour presentation on why Stonecrest was a smarter and better investment than The Villages. He got more living space for less money. Lower maintenance cost and no trail fees. Real manned gates that kept the undesirables out and, as advertised, he had unfettered access to Village cart trails, bridges and most amenities. He emphasized how much less it cost him to live in Stonecrest several times. I think he liked me, he invited me back. I have not taken him up.

You are right Steve. Stonecrestors should "understand what they bought into". They should not be crying foul now and making Villagers the target of their frustration when someone issues a reality check. I am certain the great majority of Stonecrestors, like you, are good, honest, salt of the earth people with no axes to grind. A few have made harsh sometimes intimidating public statements that result in "in kind" responses that escalates ill feelings between good people of both communities.

Some have suggested a user fee as a compromise. That makes more sense than subsidizing endless and costly litigation.

I thought the fee idea was a great idea for those that wanted access. Unfortunately not an option under current Florida Laws. I would hope those that need Golf Cart Access to the Medical Facilities would get their wish. Just like Spruce Creek South that wanted access to Walmart. I do not see how anyone could be so callus that they would be against their Florida neighbors from having access to health care facilities just because a few golf carts may use something they pay a fee for its maintenance. If thats the case maybe Ocala should put up a toll booth for every car that drives into the city.

[Barefoot]

Maybe I'm missing something.......but those "highways" that "run through The Villages" such as where Red Lobster, I.H.O.P., etc. are located, are PUBLIC ROADS........and those businesses are open to all the public, correct?


They still advertise cart access to The Villages. This is on their website this morning.

At the Stone Crest Country Club .....
And take a short golf cart ride to all the amenities in The Villages, including shopping, healthcare and entertainment.




They can access all our stuff by car so what's the difference ? I don't see the problem


Seems as I read all these posts that some people believe that the shops and restaurants are Village property. They do not belong to The Villages, they belong to the developer. They are a public enterprise open to the public.


The facts are all the stores, shops, parking, Hospital, and roads do not belong to The Villages. It would serve everyone well if they understand how these communities are developed and what they actually purchased into before they kick the sand into the air.


you seem to be the one trying to rewrite the law, the only parts of the villages that must be open to the public are the roads and businesses,
the golf cart paths are NOT public, we villagers pay for their maintenance!
outsiders are free to use golf cart trails on county roads which are open, but once you go onto one of the multi-modal paths you are on our private property! you don't contribute to their use. I'd be happy to see them open those gates again with a 5.00 use toll to go thru!


Hopefully Looneycat has answered the "Maybe I'm missing something" question. We all understand that The Villages movie theatres, restaurants and shops are open to non-Villagers. The angst is about golfcart access to our multi modal paths, it's not about car access to the businesses.

[Steve9930]

Hopefully Looneycat has answered the "Maybe I'm missing something" question. We all understand that The Villages movie theatres, restaurants and shops are open to non-Villagers. The angst is about golfcart access to our multi modal paths, it's not about car access to the businesses.

The reason this all started again is from the news article which stated Stonecrest was still trying to get access to the villages. The article is totally misleading as that is not the case. There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital.

[Steve9930]

If you are talking about the roads I might agree, but the golf cart paths are privately funded and not part of the Municipality. This is just my opinion as well as everything else in this thread is just somebody's opinion. Just like a number of other issues we will have to wait until the judge rules, everything else is pure conjecture.

Just sayin......

You know you can rent a Golf Cart over at Spanish Springs and travel the paths all day long.

[graciegirl]

I couldn't agree with you more Steve. I hope Stonecrestors get their access to hospitals, doctors, stores and shops legally across 441/27. They need to remember that the cart trails and paths in The Villages, except those sharing public roads, are NOT public, they are private, paid for and maintained by Villagers. I am sure Stonecrestors are honest and law abiding. I couldn't imagine them sneaking onto a cart path to get to, lets say, Lake Sumter Landing or Brownwood, or all those wonderful Villages funded, Villages lifestyle, exclusive amenities in between.

A few years back I played with a foursome at Lopez. One of the golfers, a Stonecrestor, was a friend of one of the foursome. He graciously invited the group to play at his home course at Stonecrest. I rode with him and was treated to a four hour presentation on why Stonecrest was a smarter and better investment than The Villages. He got more living space for less money. Lower maintenance cost and no trail fees. Real manned gates that kept the undesirables out and, as advertised, he had unfettered access to Village cart trails, bridges and most amenities. He emphasized how much less it cost him to live in Stonecrest several times. I think he liked me, he invited me back. I have not taken him up.

You are right Steve. Stonecrestors should "understand what they bought into". They should not be crying foul now and making Villagers the target of their frustration when someone issues a reality check. I am certain the great majority of Stonecrestors, like you, are good, honest, salt of the earth people with no axes to grind. A few have made harsh sometimes intimidating public statements that result in "in kind" responses that escalates ill feelings between good people of both communities.

Some have suggested a user fee as a compromise. That makes more sense than subsidizing endless and costly litigation.





Well said, Cabo. Very well said.

[rubicon]

?????????
How is driving an LSV any more dangerous than a golf cart while on a MM path????

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.[/QUOTE]

Steve9930: I happen to agree with you. Personally I always felt it was unsafe and unfair to have LSV's use multi-modal pathways mainly because of safety issues (the 20mph restriction). some may say that there is no speed limit on the multi-modal path ways and that police have no authority, I agree but these are canards like many illuminating from Stonecrest.

First the 20mph rule, perhaps police can't ticket you for exceeding 20 mph on the multi-modal path ways but they do on the roads for having an unregistered vehicle. So they are in effect policing the speed of unregistered carts which exceeds 20mph. Label it any way you choose

The complaint from Stonecrest is that (x) number of residents do not have driver licenses and therefore need their carts. I would like to know how many actual Stonecrest residents were talking about and why they do not possess a driver licenses . I mean if the state of florida refuses to issue a driver's license to them there well good be a safety issue here. Perhaps like the guy from Oxford who had a difficulty seeing and used our cart paths running down a pedestrian.

I also see another Stonecrest canard ...are some residents feeling buyers remorse. is that what this is really all about?

This issue isn't about good or bad people its about choices and its about protection of our investment. Clearly we can't and shouldn't interfere with commerce, restaurants, town squares, etc but we paid highly for our amenities which included the multi-modal pathways.

I expect and demand the Developer keep his promise that I was buying into a Lifestyle because if a person can live outside the villages and still enjoy the "Lifestyle" then I have a whole lot of questions.

finally I don't want to hear that non residents can't use pools rec cents etc.
Frankly there are some villagers who never use a rec center, a pool etc but they still pay for the right to. IF someone is going down that road of a logical progression then I countering with perhaps we ought to make amenities divisible. I don't use rec centers pools, et so I don't want to pay for them................get my drift. Its all or nothing for us and so it has to be all or noting for outsiders. You want to use your cart to view the gardens from the multi-modal paths move to The Villages there still are a lot of homes for sale

[jbdlfan]

I owned and operated a LSV in and around TV for six years. Other than the license plate you never knew what it was. Top speed is only allowed at 25 mph. Most regular carts drive faster than that. As far as the Stonecresters using our facilities, how about better enforcement of the rules by the Rec. Dept. first. I personally despise the idea of more rules, laws or fees. Just enforce what is in place and all will be fine.

[Bogie Shooter]

The reason this all started again is from the news article which stated Stonecrest was still trying to get access to the villages. The article is totally misleading as that is not the case. There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital.

There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital................................which will then give them access to The Villages.

[Steve9930]

Speed, size, and weight versus size and weight. LSV belong on the road not on Golf cart paths.

Steve9930: I happen to agree with you. Personally I always felt it was unsafe and unfair to have LSV's use multi-modal pathways mainly because of safety issues (the 20mph restriction). some may say that there is no speed limit on the multi-modal path ways and that police have no authority, I agree but these are canards like many illuminating from Stonecrest.

First the 20mph rule, perhaps police can't ticket you for exceeding 20 mph on the multi-modal path ways but they do on the roads for having an unregistered vehicle. So they are in effect policing the speed of unregistered carts which exceeds 20mph. Label it any way you choose

The complaint from Stonecrest is that (x) number of residents do not have driver licenses and therefore need their carts. I would like to know how many actual Stonecrest residents were talking about and why they do not possess a driver licenses . I mean if the state of florida refuses to issue a driver's license to them there well good be a safety issue here. Perhaps like the guy from Oxford who had a difficulty seeing and used our cart paths running down a pedestrian.

I also see another Stonecrest canard ...are some residents feeling buyers remorse. is that what this is really all about?

This issue isn't about good or bad people its about choices and its about protection of our investment. Clearly we can't and shouldn't interfere with commerce, restaurants, town squares, etc but we paid highly for our amenities which included the multi-modal pathways.

I expect and demand the Developer keep his promise that I was buying into a Lifestyle because if a person can live outside the villages and still enjoy the "Lifestyle" then I have a whole lot of questions.

finally I don't want to hear that non residents can't use pools rec cents etc.
Frankly there are some villagers who never use a rec center, a pool etc but they still pay for the right to. IF someone is going down that road of a logical progression then I countering with perhaps we ought to make amenities divisible. I don't use rec centers pools, et so I don't want to pay for them................get my drift. Its all or nothing for us and so it has to be all or noting for outsiders. You want to use your cart to view the gardens from the multi-modal paths move to The Villages there still are a lot of homes for sale[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how many people need access to the Hospital via Golf Carts. I myself use an automobile to get around if I have to cross 441/27. Its unfortunate that the article that started this fire storm again was so misleading. A sign of the time, sensational journalism to attract readers. The fact is there is a group of residents in Stonecrest that are trying to get a Golf Cart Crossing approved by the County and State so Golf Carts may cross 441/27 between the Hospital and the Doctors offices at the light. That is the total story. Now will some people use that crossing to get down to Spanish Springs, or Sumter landing, I'd be a liar if I said that would not happen but I'd also think it was pretty callus of people if they oppose that crossing just because a few carts will go on farther. The fact of the matter is if I wanted to take a ride around the villages by Golf cart today all I need to do is go and rent a cart at a very reasonable price. I personally would use the crossing on the day I would need to see the FAA Flight Surgeon when I get my biannual Flight Physical who is in the Sharon Morris Building. Saves some gas.

I've also been across the bridge via Golf cart. The bridge is an accident waiting to happen. Its is very dangerous from and engineering point of view. Even when I could get across there by Golf Cart, I'd prefer the car it was a much safer choice.

[Big O]

You know you can rent a Golf Cart over at Spanish Springs and travel the paths all day long.

Yes, and you are paying for the privilege. That's all this is about.

[perrjojo]

Saying that many Stonecrest residents need golf cart access because they no longer have a drivers license seems like a very poor argument. A person no longer able to drive should not be considered safe to drive any motorized vehicle.

[Steve9930]

There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital................................which will then give them access to The Villages.

So, you can't deny a lawful petition based on the possibility of someone using a Golf Cart path to get to Spanish Springs or on to any other of the Town Squares.

[Steve9930]

Saying that many Stonecrest residents need golf cart access because they no longer have a drivers licsence seem like a very poor argument. A person no longer able to drive should not be considered safe to drive any motorized vehicle.

Then there a lot of people in the villages that fit that argument also.

[Big O]

Then there a lot of people in the villages that fit that argument also.

Which people in the Villages do not have access to the golf cart paths?

[Steve9930]

Which people in the Villages do not have access to the golf cart paths?

People with no driver license maybe should not be driving even a golf cart in the Villages. . Here's your solution. Instead of trying to deny my rights maybe you should secure your Golf cart Paths. Then you don't need to worry about some one using them.

[njbchbum]

People with no driver license maybe should not be driving even a golf cart in the Villages. . Here's your solution. Instead of trying to deny my rights maybe you should secure your Golf cart Paths. Then you don't need to worry about some one using them.

Which right do you think anyone is trying to deny? Do you think you have a right to access private villages property with your golf cart?

[njbchbum]

You understand you purchased into what is legally called a Political Municipality? Look up the definition and once you understand that then you'll understand what and why access will never be denied. Did it ever occur to you why you never see a Do Not Trespass sign anywhere? Why The Villages has no Mayor, or City Consul, or Police Force. Once you understand the law then write me a note.

Steve9930 - did searches on bing and norton - could find nothing for 'political municipality'...can you provide a link to that explanation.

[TVMayor]

I hate how Stonecresters come to the squares and save seats resulting in Villagers having no place to sit. When that happens they should be escorted back across the border. :plane:

[Steve9930]

Which right do you think anyone is trying to deny? Do you think you have a right to access private villages property with your golf cart?

I have a right to petition the state to allow a golf cart to cross 441/27 at the Hospital light. That's what a few of your fellow Villagiets seem to have a problem. No one ever said or suggested anyone was petitioning to access your beloved kingdom. As far as I'm concerned you can build a brick wall around it, dig a motto and fill it with alligators. I'd be more then happy to give you a hand in the project. Just let me know when you want to start.

[baustgen]

Hey, they can't use any of the facilities because of the Village Id needed , only spend money at the vendors we need to stay healthy. I see no reason to keep them out. They can get here by car now and take up a larger parking spot.

[Golfingnut]

I am sorry for those that settle for Stonecrest due to money problems. Hopefully those that dream of this paradise will come into enough funds to move in before were sold out. It might pay off if the villages shops and venders would supply a shuttle bus to and from Stonecrest. I would like everyone a few minutes of what we have every day.

[njbchbum]

I have a right to petition the state to allow a golf cart to cross 441/27 at the Hospital light. That's what a few of your fellow Villagiets seem to have a problem. No one ever said or suggested anyone was petitioning to access your beloved kingdom. As far as I'm concerned you can build a brick wall around it, dig a motto and fill it with alligators. I'd be more then happy to give you a hand in the project. Just let me know when you want to start.

I'm good with that right. Did you find a link for me that defines/describes 'political municipality'?

[janmcn]

I have a right to petition the state to allow a golf cart to cross 441/27 at the Hospital light. That's what a few of your fellow Villagiets seem to have a problem. No one ever said or suggested anyone was petitioning to access your beloved kingdom. As far as I'm concerned you can build a brick wall around it, dig a motto and fill it with alligators. I'd be more then happy to give you a hand in the project. Just let me know when you want to start.


Your group should also contact Congressmen Rich Nugent and Ted Yoho regarding this matter, in addition to Senators Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio and state legislator Maureen O'Toole. Nugent and Yoho are back in their districts on vacation now until mid-January.

[Peachie]

Your group should also contact Congressmen Rich Nugent and Ted Yoho regarding this matter, in addition to Senators Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio and state legislator Maureen O'Toole. Nugent and Yoho are back in their districts on vacation now until mid-January.

Or even simpler, plop a "For Sale" sign in your Stonecrest yard and move across the street to The Villages. No more problems!

[Steve9930]

I'm good with that right. Did you find a link for me that defines/describes 'political municipality'?

Search for Political subdivision.

[Steve9930]

Or even simpler, plop a "For Sale" sign in your Stonecrest yard and move across the street to The Villages. No more problems!

I don't have a problem. Never did that's why I moved here.

[Steve & Deanna]

After following and reading about this Stonecrest access to OUR community, it appears that Mr Steve 9930 has a lot to say, is a sidewalk lawyer, is insanely jealous, has little to do and is definitely a Villages wannabe. So Mr. 9930, sell your home in Stonecrest and buy here in The Villages. We've bought our home and the Villages lifestyle and are quite happy. You sound like an unhappy person. Too bad. Life is too short.

[Steve9930]

After following and reading about this Stonecrest access to OUR community, it appears that Mr Steve 9930 has a lot to say, is a sidewalk lawyer, is insanely jealous, has little to do and is definitely a Villages wannabe. So Mr. 9930, sell your home in Stonecrest and buy here in The Villages. We've bought our home and the Villages lifestyle and are quite happy. You sound like an unhappy person. Too bad. Life is too short.

No thanks I might get you as a neighbor.

[Cisco Kid]

Me thinks this thread is dead and about to be shut down.

[Steve & Deanna]

No thanks I might get you as a neighbor.
Then stay home !!!!

[Peachie]

I have a right to petition the state to allow a golf cart to cross 441/27 at the Hospital light. That's what a few of your fellow Villagiets seem to have a problem. No one ever said or suggested anyone was petitioning to access your beloved kingdom. As far as I'm concerned you can build a brick wall around it, dig a motto and fill it with alligators. I'd be more then happy to give you a hand in the project. Just let me know when you want to start.

Then we'd be just like Stonecrest and we would rather have public access areas by automobile.

Do you have any community support in Stonecrest, Steve, whereby the two or four people who can't drive and probably shouldn't be driving, could receive transportation help from neighbors or caring members of the community? Why would you want these very few people with driving difficulties to cross 27/441 in a golf cart?

Perhaps you'll manage to get major highway access to the hospital but if you think the Morse family will not take the steps necessary to limit access only to those medical buildings, think again. Their investment and future income depend on structure of The Villages as it stands.

Isn't it amazing, Steve, that Spruce Creek South manages their doctor and medical appointments without this access? They certainly must have residents with driving issues; they just didn't plan on riding the back of their neighboring community in which they didn't want to buy.

[Peachie]

Me thinks this thread is dead and about to be shut down.

I'll send that vote.

[Steve9930]

Then we'd be just like Stonecrest and we would rather have public access areas by automobile.

Do you have any community support in Stonecrest, Steve, whereby the two or four people who can't drive and probably shouldn't be driving, could receive transportation help from neighbors or caring members of the community? Why would you want these very few people with driving difficulties across 27/441 in a golf cart?

Perhaps you'll manage to get major highway access to the hospital but if you think the Morse family will not take the steps necessary to limit access only to those medical buildings, think again. Their investment and future income depend on structure of The Villages as it stands.

Isn't it amazing, Steve, that Spruce Creek South manages their doctor and medical appointments without this access? They certainly must have residents with driving issues; they just didn't plan on riding the back of their neighboring community in which they didn't want to buy.


If there are people that want legal access to cross 441/27 on public property then they have every right o do so. If the people that will be crossing there go on to The Villages Cart Paths then the Villagers have the right to secure those paths. How people mange their life is up to them. I'm not going to make those decisions for them. The bottom line is a Golf Cart Crossing will either be granted by the state, since it is crossing a state highway, or not and that will be the end of this nonsense. There is no Villager property involved in this crossing request.

[Peachie]

If there are people that want legal access to cross 441/27 on public property then they have every right o do so. If the people that will be crossing there go on to The Villages Cart Paths then the Villagers have the right to secure those paths. How people mange their life is up to them. I'm not going to make those decisions for them. The bottom line is a Golf Cart Crossing will either be granted by the state, since it is crossing a state highway, or not and that will be the end of this nonsense. There is no Villager property involved in this crossing request.

It is nonsense, I agree, that Stonecrest demands special services that no one else in the surrounding communities are receiving. When as a community, Stonecrest could step up to the plate and offer transportation services by bus or van.

[NoMoSno]

If there are people that want legal access to cross 441/27 on public property then they have every right o do so. If the people that will be crossing there go on to The Villages Cart Paths then the Villagers have the right to secure those paths. How people mange their life is up to them. I'm not going to make those decisions for them. The bottom line is a Golf Cart Crossing will either be granted by the state, since it is crossing a state highway, or not and that will be the end of this nonsense. There is no Villager property involved in this crossing request.

Bingo! :thumbup:

[Barefoot]

How people mange their life is up to them. I'm not going to make those decisions for them. The bottom line is a Golf Cart Crossing will either be granted by the state, since it is crossing a state highway, or not and that will be the end of this nonsense.

Steve, really, it's not nonsense.
TOTV is just a friendly Chat Room where topics are discussed, opinions are voiced, and occasionally people get to jump in the mud and wrestle a bit.

[Steve9930]

It is nonsense, I agree, that Stonecrest demands special services that no one else in the surrounding communities are receiving. When as a community, Stonecrest could step up to the plate and offer transportation services by bus or van.

I respect your opinion but quite frankly it a matter of law, I'd get over it otherwise it will effect your health. No special treatment being given to anyone.

[Steve9930]

Steve, really, it's not nonsense.
TOTV is just a friendly Chat Room where topics are discussed, opinions are voiced, and occasionally people get to jump in the mud and wrestle a bit.

That's fine but personal attacks don't belong here and innuendos about people get the short hairs up.

[Happydaz]

This whole situation is quite simple in my opinion. I pay $145 per month to use the Village amenities including the multiple modal paths. These paths could become very crowded if we open them up to people who live outside the Villages. I consider my Village home an investment. People who don't own a home in the Villages don't have the same investment as we do. We feel differently. If you have been renting for years and posting on TOTV you don't really have the same vested interest as we do. You can be philosophical and get in to debates on letting everyone use our facilities, etc. and it really doesn't impact you. You don't live here. Or if you live in Stonecrest you don't give a hoot about the Villagers. You just want access to those golf paths even though you don't live here. The developer had better not set any precedent here of allowing our multiple modal paths to be opened up. And to think Stonecresters have their own gate where they don't allow any outsiders in. That is too much!

[justavillager]

It is nonsense, I agree, that Stonecrest demands special services that no one else in the surrounding communities are receiving. When as a community, Stonecrest could step up to the plate and offer transportation services by bus or van.

Probably no need for legal crossing of 27/441. Just do it illegally like numerous Villages residents do it every day. Please don't suggest that you have never seen it as it goes on all the time.

[Steve9930]

This whole situation is quite simple in my opinion. I pay $145 per month to use the Village amenities including the multiple modal paths. These paths could become very crowded if we open them up to people who live outside the Villages. I consider my Village home an investment. People who don't own a home in the Villages don't have the same investment as we do. We feel differently. If you have been renting for years and posting on TOTV you don't really have the same vested interest as we do. You can be philosophical and get in to debates on letting everyone use our facilities, etc. and it really doesn't impact you. You don't live here. Or if you live in Stonecrest you don't give a hoot about the Villagers. You just want access to those golf paths even though you don't live here. The developer had better not set any precedent here of allowing our multiple modal paths to be opened up. And to think Stonecresters have their own gate where they don't allow any outsiders in. That is too much!

No one has request that anyone other then the Villagers have access to your Cart Paths. Like I indicated before No Villager Property or Cart paths are involved. Public Road, State Highway, it doesn't get any simpler then that.

[looneycat]

The reason this all started again is from the news article which stated Stonecrest was still trying to get access to the villages. The article is totally misleading as that is not the case. There is a group trying to get a Golf Cart crossing across to the Hospital.

I'm sorry to see that this thread is totally out of control.....steve you must understand that despite your claims otherwise all we have seen are people on your side of the wall picketing, etc. and this is what the media always trots out. If the request were so simple and state related then why did somebody on 'your' side call the media????

[Steve9930]

Probably no need for legal crossing of 27/441. Just do it illegally like numerous Villages residents do it every day. Please don't suggest that you have never seen it as it goes on all the time.
Yes it does I've seen it also. I've also seen the motorized wheel chairs make that crossing. That's called a death wish.

[Happydaz]

"I think he doth protest too much."

[Carl in Tampa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa View Post
The Villages has no legal right to make or enforce laws. You cannot do what you suggested. LSVs where owned by a Village resident or an outsider do not and should not be on the Golf Cart Paths. They have been designed for street use. using them on the paths puts others in danger.

so you don't know about the CDD system that GOVERNS The Villages? I don't know, this whole thing stinks of sour grapes from someone who thought that by buying outside the villages they could make use of facilities we paid for, wanna use the multi-modal paths? pay for the right like I do!

Just to be clear, looneycat, I didn't post the message I've bolded above. It was by Steve9930 who lives in Stonecrest. Somehow in answering an earlier post of mine, he got my name involved in his post.

Csrl in Tampa

[justjim]

As I posted earlier on this Thread. A precedent was set several years ago to allow Stonecresters access via golf trail to Doctors, Hospital facilities, residents of TV, and other commercial establishments within TV.

Of course when a precedent is set, it becomes rather cumbersome to eliminate that action. A wall was put up to stop Stonecresters from access to TV and their Doctors and Hospital via a regular golf cart. However, this action also stopped TV residents from accessing certain facilities. Subsequenty, the wall was removed and a gate was constructed that could only be opened by a TV gate pass. Thus, Stonecresters could no longer enter via a golf cart and must find alternate transportation to doctors and hospital facilities among other "things" they previously accessed by golf cart.

It is rumored that the gate was put into place to solve a potential liability issue. However, since TV is not a total gated community an "outsider" can (and do) access TV via Street Legal golf cart and may get to doctors and the hospital via golf cart transportation. It appears that the liability issue or issues has not been effectively addressed by the "Paradie Dr. gate". Who or what is going to keep them off the TV golf trails?

Since Street Legals may use the multi modal trails, IMHO the Gate solves nothing except to stop Stonecresters (who only drive a regular golf cart) from accessing certain public facilities that previously they could access via their golf carts.

Do we issue a windshield or plate to Villagers and then "police" those who do not have this identification in order to keep ALL so called illegal golf carts off our so called "private trails"? Now, we are talking about nonesense! And something that could be costly to all. It's a pretty slippery slope that some seem to want to travel.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa
A Stonecrester with an LSV can legally drive on the streets of TV but could still be prohibited from using the multi-modal paths. It would require some work on the part of the Developer to detect the offenders and issue them a "Trespass Warning" but it could be accomplished if the Developer has the will to do it.

Once warned, the offender could be arrested if there were a repeat violation, The fact that the LSVs are required to have a license tag would make enforcement easier.


Who would issue the “Trespass Warning” a new “Village Home Land Security Department”? One fully trained in police work? To cover the area of the TV would 10 officers be sufficient? How much money will be diverted from my amenity fees to fund this?

What return would I receive for my money?

Trespass warnings can be issued by any representative of the Development District. The most logical people would be the Community Watch people who are out and about in their patrol trucks. They simply hand the offender a pre-printed piece of paper. They would also have the option of calling the Sheriff to have a deputy issue the warning.

No money diverted. They are out there anyway.

:police:

[Peachie]

As I posted earlier on this Thread. A precedent was set several years ago to allow Stonecresters access via golf trail to Doctors, Hospital facilities, residents of TV, and other commercial establishments within TV.

Of course when a precedent is set, it becomes rather cumbersome to eliminate that action. A wall was put up to stop Stonecresters from access to TV and their Doctors and Hospital via a regular golf cart. However, this action also stopped TV residents from accessing certain facilities. Subsequenty, the wall was removed and a gate was constructed that could only be opened by a TV gate pass. Thus, Stonecresters could no longer enter via a golf cart and must find alternate transportation to doctors and hospital facilities among other "things" they previously accessed by golf cart.

It is rumored that the gate was put into place to solve a potential liability issue. However, since TV is not a total gated community an "outsider" can (and do) access TV via Street Legal golf cart and may get to doctors and the hospital via golf cart transportation. It appears that the liability issue or issues has not been effectively addressed by the "Paradie Dr. gate". Who or what is going to keep them off the TV golf trails?

Since Street Legals may use the multi modal trails, IMHO the Gate solves nothing except to stop Stonecresters (who only drive a regular golf cart) from accessing certain public facilities that previously they could access via their golf carts.

Do we issue a windshield or plate to Villagers and then "police" those who do not have this identification in order to keep ALL so called illegal golf carts off our so called "private trails"? Now, we are talking about nonesense! And something that could be costly to all. It's a pretty slippery slope that some seem to want to travel.

It wasn't a precedent, it was a vandalized gate that wasn't replaced after continually being damaged. As I stated earlier, it would be unusual to reward vandalism.

[Carl in Tampa]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter
My point is you say "No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages."
And I say once accross 441/27 you do have access.

"This is what you bought into.' Not sure what this means................and really don't care to know.


You cannot rewrite the law. You bought into an open access community. People that do not pay amenity fees are going to use your Golf cart Paths. That's what you bought into.

Well, not legally.

First, let's get some terms correctly understood. Our golf cart paths run through the golf courses and are solely for the use of people actively playing golf. Our multi-modal paths (walking, biking and golf cart access) are probably what you are talking about since they are the method of getting around The Villages without getting on the streets with 35mph limits.

Both the golf cart paths and the multi-modal paths are the private property of the developer. As has been often discussed in other forums, the sheriff's deputies do not enforce speed limits on these paths. However, they do have the authority to enforce trespassing laws.

You continually insist that your group only wants to be able to legally cross 441 in order to get to the hospital and the doctor's complex. Of course we all know that once at the hospital it is possible to access the entire Villages community via multi-modal paths. I can only suggest to you that if the highway crossing is approved you can be sure that the developer will install new gates to prevent accessing the rest of the community from the hospital complex. Count on it.

There will always be those who sneak into The Villages via golf cart and improperly use our multi-modal paths, but that is no reason for us to facilitate their offense.

:police:

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa
A Stonecrester with an LSV can legally drive on the streets of TV but could still be prohibited from using the multi-modal paths. It would require some work on the part of the Developer to detect the offenders and issue them a "Trespass Warning" but it could be accomplished if the Developer has the will to do it.

Once warned, the offender could be arrested if there were a repeat violation, The fact that the LSVs are required to have a license tag would make enforcement easier.




Trespass warnings can be issued by any representative of the Development District. The most logical people would be the Community Watch people who are out and about in their patrol trucks. They simply hand the offender a pre-printed piece of paper. They would also have the option of calling the Sheriff to have a deputy issue the warning.

No money diverted. They are out there anyway.

:police:

I do not believe they have any law enforcement authority, nor do they have any authority to detain or stop any individual. If you want The Villages in a major law suit try it and see what happens. You will first have to post no trespassing signs. Since some of these paths intermingle with public road ways good luck with that approach.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter
My point is you say "No one is trying to get Golf Cart access to your beloved villages."
And I say once accross 441/27 you do have access.

"This is what you bought into.' Not sure what this means................and really don't care to know.




Well, not legally.

First, let's get some terms correctly understood. Our golf cart paths run through the golf courses and are solely for the use of people actively playing golf. Our multi-modal paths (walking, biking and golf cart access) are probably what you are talking about since they are the method of getting around The Villages without getting on the streets with 35mph limits.

Both the golf cart paths and the multi-modal paths are the private property of the developer. As has been often discussed in other forums, the sheriff's deputies do not enforce speed limits on these paths. However, they do have the authority to enforce trespassing laws.

You continually insist that your group only wants to be able to legally cross 441 in order to get to the hospital and the doctor's complex. Of course we all know that once at the hospital it is possible to access the entire Villages community via multi-modal paths. I can only suggest to you that if the highway crossing is approved you can be sure that the developer will install new gates to prevent accessing the rest of the community from the hospital complex. Count on it.

There will always be those who sneak into The Villages via golf cart and improperly use our multi-modal paths, but that is no reason for us to facilitate their offense.

:police:
If the cart crossing is approved then The Villages will have every right to limit such access. I don't have a problem with that and nether does any one that I know either.

[DonH57]

Since the word " liability " just came up I now fully understand why the gate was set up. I can think of some possible scenarios if it hadn't been erected. The developers' simply legally protecting their property. That's the way I see it. I' m no longer looking at it as a p!@@#$& match.

[Carl in Tampa]

I do not believe they have any law enforcement authority, nor do they have any authority to detain or stop any individual. If you want The Villages in a major law suit try it and see what happens. You will first have to post no trespassing signs. Since some of these paths intermingle with public road ways good luck with that approach.

Take it from a retired Florida deputy sheriff. Trespass warnings are issued by the property owner or an authorized representative, not by law enforcement. Law enforcement officers are sometimes present to prevent the offender from violence or to document the issuing of the warning. It would be just as lawful if the warning is done in the presence of a witness or if it is videotaped.

No Trespassing signs are effective for immediate arrest without an earlier trespass warning being issued.

Also, if they choose to do so the developers can go ahead an install No Trespassing signs.

:police::police::police:

[Steve9930]

It wasn't a precedent, it was a vandalized gate that wasn't replaced after continually being damaged. As I stated earlier, it would be unusual to reward vandalism.

As far as i can remember the gate did not require card access. The arm was always broken. The gate would open if you just drove up to the gate.

[Cajulian]

It is nonsense, I agree, that Stonecrest demands special services that no one else in the surrounding communities are receiving. When as a community, Stonecrest could step up to the plate and offer transportation services by bus or van.


Peachie, by the way, Spruce Creek will also have access to the Hospital and Doctors because they now have a crossing that gets them to Walmarts and subsequently will be able to get to the Medical facilities if Stonecrest is granted a crossing.

[Peachie]

Peachie, by the way, Spruce Creek will also have access to the Hospital and Doctors because they now have a crossing that gets them to Walmarts and subsequently will be able to get to the Medical facilities if Stonecrest is granted a crossing.

Point being, Cajulian, that the dignified population of Spruce Creek has not asked for any special treatment to access The Villages properties. They had made accommodations for the lifestyle they chose in an enclosed, GATED golf cart community.

[njbchbum]

As I posted earlier on this Thread. A precedent was set several years ago to allow Stonecresters access via golf trail to Doctors, Hospital facilities, residents of TV, and other commercial establishments within TV.

Of course when a precedent is set, it becomes rather cumbersome to eliminate that action. A wall was put up to stop Stonecresters from access to TV and their Doctors and Hospital via a regular golf cart. However, this action also stopped TV residents from accessing certain facilities. Subsequenty, the wall was removed and a gate was constructed that could only be opened by a TV gate pass. Thus, Stonecresters could no longer enter via a golf cart and must find alternate transportation to doctors and hospital facilities among other "things" they previously accessed by golf cart.

It is rumored that the gate was put into place to solve a potential liability issue. However, since TV is not a total gated community an "outsider" can (and do) access TV via Street Legal golf cart and may get to doctors and the hospital via golf cart transportation. It appears that the liability issue or issues has not been effectively addressed by the "Paradie Dr. gate". Who or what is going to keep them off the TV golf trails?

Since Street Legals may use the multi modal trails, IMHO the Gate solves nothing except to stop Stonecresters (who only drive a regular golf cart) from accessing certain public facilities that previously they could access via their golf carts.

Do we issue a windshield or plate to Villagers and then "police" those who do not have this identification in order to keep ALL so called illegal golf carts off our so called "private trails"? Now, we are talking about nonesense! And something that could be costly to all. It's a pretty slippery slope that some seem to want to travel.

justjim - the access precedent that had existed does not exist any longer - it was eliminated by installing the gate...not cumbersome at all...done!

and if stonecresters are now seeking a legal golf cart crossing to the hospital/medical offices - so be it. if the developer fears abuse of the multi-modal paths, should that crossing be approved, he will be at liberty to resolve same to his satisfaction.

why even think that villagers will be made to purchase 'identification' for their carts - sounds more alarmist than slippery slope. and be secured - the multi-modal paths are not part of the public infrastructure/roadway system within the villages.

i'd love to see some sort of access control for carts on multi-modal paths if it would keep cars from accessing them! ;)

[Peachie]

As far as i can remember the gate did not require card access. The arm was always broken. The gate would open if you just drove up to the gate.

Steve, would you share with us how long you have been living in Stonecrest?

[Peachie]

i'd love to see some sort of access control for carts on multi-modal paths if it would keep cars from accessing them! ;)

Ain't that the truth! :loco:

[NoMoSno]

As far as i can remember the gate did not require card access. The arm was always broken. The gate would open if you just drove up to the gate.

You are correct.

[Peachie]

As far as i can remember the gate did not require card access. The arm was always broken. The gate would open if you just drove up to the gate.

The gate would open IF you were leaving The Villages, correct?

[Cisco Kid]

I would like a cart path to TV from subdivision.
I am going right to the top.
I am going to call Gracie .

[NoMoSno]

The gate would open IF you were leaving The Villages, correct?

Wrong.

[Steve9930]

Take it from a retired Florida deputy sheriff. Trespass warnings are issued by the property owner or an authorized representative, not by law enforcement. Law enforcement officers are sometimes present to prevent the offender from violence or to document the issuing of the warning. It would be just as lawful if the warning is done in the presence of a witness or if it is videotaped.

No Trespassing signs are effective for immediate arrest without an earlier trespass warning being issued.

Also, if they choose to do so the developers can go ahead an install No Trespassing signs.

:police::police::police:
The representative will have no authority to just randomly stop anyone on the path. A representative has no law enforcement authority, none. If this is started I can see a major problem. If the developer wants to protect the paths from unlawful use then he will need to gate them off, or make sure there is a way to identify a village resident so a representative can call law enforcement. If any one other then a law officer approaches an individual in an aggressive manner in this state they take their life in their own hands. I doubt the developer would like to see a story in the paper about an altercation on the Cart Paths in the paper. You also have vendors in the Villages renting carts for people to use on the paths. On one of the first go around on this gate closing were people talking about a girls bachelorette party who rented carts to do a bar hopping party in the villages. The bottom line is the requested crossing is from public accessed property to public accessed property over a state highway. The State and the County will make the decision as to whether the crossing will be allowed. After that it will be up to The Villages as to what to do about their Cart Paths. I do understand the difference between your golf cart path types. I would imagine with all this hoopla about this I would make an educated bet that the person who put up the styrofoam wall would never do it again. Everything was quite and peaceful until that event. Everyone does know that there are people that have access cards that are not villagers as there are people that have remotes to Stonecrest that do not live in Stonecrest. The ability to cross or not to cross makes no difference to me . But if there are people that need access to the medical facilities via Golf Cart then they should have it and we should all go along with our business. There are far more important items to take care of in life.

[justjim]

justjim - the access precedent that had existed does not exist any longer - it was eliminated by installing the gate...not cumbersome at all...done!

and if stonecresters are now seeking a legal golf cart crossing to the hospital/medical offices - so be it. if the developer fears abuse of the multi-modal paths, should that crossing be approved, he will be at liberty to resolve same to his satisfaction.

why even think that villagers will be made to purchase 'identification' for their carts - sounds more alarmist than slippery slope. and be secured - the multi-modal paths are not part of the public infrastructure/roadway system within the villages.

i'd love to see some sort of access control for carts on multi-modal paths if it would keep cars from accessing them! ;)

Who would have thought that a "midnight" wall would suddenly be constructed? Identification for TV golf carts doesn't seem that much of a stretch.

Hard to fix stupid.

[Bogie Shooter]

The representative will have no authority to just randomly stop anyone on the path. A representative has no law enforcement authority, none. If this is started I can see a major problem. If the developer wants to protect the paths from unlawful use then he will need to gate them off, or make sure there is a way to identify a village resident so a representative can call law enforcement. If any one other then a law officer approaches an individual in an aggressive manner in this state they take their life in their own hands. I doubt the developer would like to see a story in the paper about an altercation on the Cart Paths in the paper. You also have vendors in the Villages renting carts for people to use on the paths. On one of the first go around on this gate closing were people talking about a girls bachelorette party who rented carts to do a bar hopping party in the villages. The bottom line is the requested crossing is from public accessed property to public accessed property over a state highway. The State and the County will make the decision as to whether the crossing will be allowed. After that it will be up to The Villages as to what to do about their Cart Paths. I do understand the difference between your golf cart path types. I would imagine with all this hoopla about this I would make an educated bet that the person who put up the styrofoam wall would never do it again. Everything was quite and peaceful until that event. Everyone does know that there are people that have access cards that are not villagers as there are people that have remotes to Stonecrest that do not live in Stonecrest. The ability to cross or not to cross makes no difference to me . But if there are people that need access to the medical facilities via Golf Cart then they should have it and we should all go along with our business. There are far more important items to take care of in life.

Good advice........go for it.

[Cajulian]

Point being, Cajulian, that the dignified population of Spruce Creek has not asked for any special treatment to access The Villages properties. They had made accommodations for the lifestyle they chose in an enclosed, GATED golf cart community.

Peachie, point is, that the Stonecrest group also did not ask for special treatment to access your amenities. They only asked state authorities to consider approving a crossing over 441/27. That's it. You may be interpreting something else is being asked by the group.

[Steve9930]

Steve, would you share with us how long you have been living in Stonecrest?

Going on ten years.

[Carl in Tampa]

The representative will have no authority to just randomly stop anyone on the path. A representative has no law enforcement authority, none.

Wrong, Steve.

A property owner, or the owner's representative has absolute authority to question a person's presence on the property. It is not a law enforcement function and does not require law enforcement authority.

If you see someone in your back yard you have the authority to confront the person and ask why he is there. You also have the authority to tell him to leave. You do not have, nor do you need, law enforcement authority to do this.

If he refuses to leave you may call the police and have him removed and/or arrested, depending upon the circumstances. If you tell him to leave and he leaves when the police arrive then you have successfully removed him. If he refuses to leave when the police witness his refusal then he can be arrested. If he returns to your property after the police have witnessed your warning for him to keep off your property he may be arrested based upon the earlier trespass warning.

For a person who simply wants to access the hospital and doctor's offices you sure seem hung up on wanting to use the multi-modal paths.

:police:

[justjim]

Wrong, Steve.

A property owner, or the owner's representative has absolute authority to question a person's presence on the property. It is not a law enforcement function and does not require law enforcement authority.

If you see someone in your back yard you have the authority to confront the person and ask why he is there. You also have the authority to tell him to leave. You do not have, nor do you need, law enforcement authority to do this.

If he refuses to leave you may call the police and have him removed and/or arrested, depending upon the circumstances. If you tell him to leave and he leaves when the police arrive then you have successfully removed him. If he refuses to leave when the police witness his refusal then he can be arrested. If he returns to your property after the police have witnessed your warning for him to keep off your property he may be arrested based upon the earlier trespass warning.

For a person who simply wants to access the hospital and doctor's offices you sure seem hung up on wanting to use the multi-modal paths.

:police:

Question is---who legally owns the multi modal trails. You think the Developer?

[njbchbum]

Who would have thought that a "midnight" wall would suddenly be constructed? Identification for TV golf carts doesn't seem that much of a stretch.

Hard to fix stupid.

Calling me stupid?

[Steve9930]

Wrong, Steve.

A property owner, or the owner's representative has absolute authority to question a person's presence on the property. It is not a law enforcement function and does not require law enforcement authority.

If you see someone in your back yard you have the authority to confront the person and ask why he is there. You also have the authority to tell him to leave. You do not have, nor do you need, law enforcement authority to do this.

If he refuses to leave you may call the police and have him removed and/or arrested, depending upon the circumstances. If you tell him to leave and he leaves when the police arrive then you have successfully removed him. If he refuses to leave when the police witness his refusal then he can be arrested.

For a person who simply wants to access the hospital and doctor's offices you sure seem hung up on wanting to use the multi-modal paths.

:police:
You are correct when you are talking about your back yard. However in this case you have unsecured boundary lines in a public place next to public facilities with no clear definition of access restriction. You also have some self defense laws in Florida that make it very dangerous to have untrained, unarmed civilians approaching some one. You starting to see what may happen. Its a whole different ball game when you have a fenced yard The fence indicates a boundary restriction. As the owner who put up the fence you have the right to address the individual you made it clear with the fence there is an access restriction. You have the right to question, you do not have the right to detain. Your looking at apples and we are taking about oranges. Both are fruit but are not the same.