Daily Sun news brief / Dairy Subsidies

[Villages PL]

Are you in favor of a "free market economy"? Then what must you think of government dairy-subsidies?

This news article (in today's newspaper) stated that government subsidies are due to expire at the end of the year and the fear is that it will cause the price of dairy to rise.

Whatever happened to letting "supply and demand" do its thing in a free market? Dairy is not an essential need in life. It may be something you want because it goes good on pizza and goes well with cereal, but it's not an essential need.

Why should we all pay for dairy subsidies, so dairy lovers won't have to pay more?

Notice: This thread is about dairy-subsidies only, please don't change the subject. Thanks.

[zcaveman]

Are you in favor of a "free market economy"? Then what must you think of government dairy subsidies?

This news article (in today's newspaper) stated that government subsidies are due to expire at the end of the year and the fear is that it will cause the price of dairy to rise.

Whatever happened to letting "supply and demand" do its thing in a free market? Dairy is not an essential need in life. It may be something you want because it goes good on pizza and goes well with cereal, but it's not an essential need.

Why should we all pay for dairy subsidies so dairy lovers won't have to pay more?

I still need milk on my cereal and that is a dairy product.

Z

[donb9006]

Are you in favor of a "free market economy"? Then what must you think of government dairy subsidies?

This news article (in today's newspaper) stated that government subsidies are due to expire at the end of the year and the fear is that it will cause the price of dairy to rise.

Whatever happened to letting "supply and demand" do its thing in a free market? Dairy is not an essential need in life. It may be something you want because it goes good on pizza and goes well with cereal, but it's not an essential need.

Why should we all pay for dairy subsidies so dairy lovers won't have to pay more?

It is an essential for babies...or at least the government thinks so. IMO, that's why it's subsidized, so mothers can provide it to their children at a reasonable cost.

[graciegirl]

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[Bucco]

It is an essential for babies...or at least the government thinks so. IMO, that's why it's subsidized, so mothers can provide it to their children at a reasonable cost.

In actuality, the bill the OP refers to is about much more than "babies". THE BELOW is a major part of the holdup..


Finding a compromise on cuts to the nation's $80 billion-a-year food stamp program has been the toughest obstacle in the talks between the House and the Senate. The House passed a bill this summer that would cut $4 billion from food stamps annually and allow states to create new work requirements for some recipients. The Democratic Senate, backed by President Barack Obama, passed a farm bill with $400 million annual cut, or a tenth of the House cut.

Negotiators have focused on cracking down further on a practice in some states of giving low-income people as little as $1 a year in home heating assistance, even when they don't have heating bills, in order to make them eligible for increased food stamp benefits. The Senate found its $400 million in annual cuts by requiring that recipients receive at least $10 in assistance to make them eligible, while the House doubled that cut by requiring that recipients receive $20 annually — bringing the savings to around $800 million a year.

Reid Says Democrats Will Not Extend Farm Law (http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/Reid-Says-Democrats-Will-Not-Extend-Farm-Law-235291361.html?device=tablet)

[donb9006]

In actuality, the bill the OP refers to is about much more than "babies". THE BELOW is a major part of the holdup..


Finding a compromise on cuts to the nation's $80 billion-a-year food stamp program has been the toughest obstacle in the talks between the House and the Senate. The House passed a bill this summer that would cut $4 billion from food stamps annually and allow states to create new work requirements for some recipients. The Democratic Senate, backed by President Barack Obama, passed a farm bill with $400 million annual cut, or a tenth of the House cut.

Negotiators have focused on cracking down further on a practice in some states of giving low-income people as little as $1 a year in home heating assistance, even when they don't have heating bills, in order to make them eligible for increased food stamp benefits. The Senate found its $400 million in annual cuts by requiring that recipients receive at least $10 in assistance to make them eligible, while the House doubled that cut by requiring that recipients receive $20 annually — bringing the savings to around $800 million a year.

Reid Says Democrats Will Not Extend Farm Law (http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/Reid-Says-Democrats-Will-Not-Extend-Farm-Law-235291361.html?device=tablet)

Really? Making it $10 or even $20 is going to make a difference? They'll just raise it the pittance that's required for aid. JP Morgan runs the SNAP card program (formerly foodstamps) so they're always looking for more eligible participants. They get a cut for every card issued. Same reason drug companies push people to "ask for our drug". Walmart, Kraft, anyone linked to the food business benefit from more and more people getting food stamps. That $80 billion a year is money spent on food that otherwise wouldn't have been spent. It's money injected into the food business by the government. It's welfare for all involved.

[Bucco]

Really? Making it $10 or even $20 is going to make a difference? They'll just raise it the pittance that's required for aid. JP Morgan runs the SNAP card program (formerly foodstamps) so they're always looking for more eligible participants. They get a cut for every card issued. Same reason drug companies push people to "ask for our drug". Walmart, Kraft, anyone linked to the food business benefit from more and more people getting food stamps. That $80 billion a year is money spent on food that otherwise wouldn't have been spent. It's money injected into the food business by the government. It's welfare for all involved.

My intent is NOT a debate of any kind. I just felt it important that the real reason for the dairy bill hold up be presented, or the entire discussion would be based on something not true.

No political debates allowed.

[billethkid]

That $80 billion a year is money spent on food that otherwise wouldn't have been spent.

I do not agree the $80 billion would not be spent.

I believe the money will be spent...the need for the food does not vary....however, the source of the funds does.

And of course recipients would rather use someone else's money than their own.

I would actually rather see the distribution of the food....not the money....now that would shake up the users substantially. But would root out the inconsistency of application VS intent.

btk

[donb9006]

I do not agree the $80 billion would not be spent.

I believe the money will be spent...the need for the food does not vary....however, the source of the funds does.

And of course recipients would rather use someone else's money than their own.

I would actually rather see the distribution of the food....not the money....now that would shake up the users substantially. But would root out the inconsistency of application VS intent.

btk

Let me rephrase it...it's EXTRA money put into the food production economy through government debt.

If the poor didn't get "free food", I doubt so many would be obese. So, IMO, there is definitely "extra" food in the system.

Supposedly they don't HAVE the money to pay for food. If they do, why are we paying them?

Good luck with that...make the poor do something? Ha...that's a good one!

[buggyone]

Let me rephrase it...it's EXTRA money put into the food production economy through government debt.

If the poor didn't get "free food", I doubt so many would be obese. So, IMO, there is definitely "extra" food in the system.

Supposedly they don't HAVE the money to pay for food. If they do, why are we paying them?

Good luck with that...make the poor do something? Ha...that's a good one!

The food stamp program does not dictate what food can be bought with the card. If a family receives $350 on their card per month, they can buy $350 worth of lobster tail or $350 of chicken, turkey, and spaghetti. Which goes further for feeding the family during the month?

The Federal government does not tell you what you can buy with your Social Security retirement each month, does it?

Regarding dairy subsidies, I remember reading in history books about dairy farmers dumping milk in sewers because of low prices caused by over production. Dairy subsidies were created to buy the milk at a guaranteed price to prevent this - so I doubt that elimination of a dairy subsidy and putting milk on the "free market" would raise prices. If dairy farmers thought they could get more money on the "free market", they would not be spending so much money in lobbying their Congress reps to keep it in place.

[graciegirl]

I don't think Villages Pl really wanted to focus on the political side of this.

[Bucco]

I don't think Villages Pl really wanted to focus on the political side of this.

However, the OP did not post a link to what was referred to, AND presented the problem with the bill involved in a manner that was misleading. The delay, etc has really nothing much to do with dairy products, which is the problem in referring to bills OR laws as "black and white issues" when they are complicated and burdened with such baggage as this one.

This is not a bill addressing free market, dairy products or babies.

To the OPs point...not resolved, it will increase prices

[Bucco]

[/[B]B]"Congress is poised to go home for the holidays without passing a new farm law, which should mean milk prices will double on Jan. 1. That isn’t going to happen.

The lapse in legislation means the nation will revert to a 1949 dairy program, though Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said it will take at least a month for his agency to put the rules in place.

“It is unlikely, given the complexity of what will be required to implement the law, that we would have that in place through the month of January,” Vilsack told reporters in a conference call yesterday."


Milk Price Surge Delayed Even as Congress Fails to Act - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-12/milk-price-surge-delayed-even-as-congress-fails-to-act.html)

[Peachie]

The food stamp program does not dictate what food can be bought with the card. If a family receives $350 on their card per month, they can buy $350 worth of lobster tail or $350 of chicken, turkey, and spaghetti. Which goes further for feeding the family during the month?

The Federal government does not tell you what you can buy with your Social Security retirement each month, does it?

Regarding dairy subsidies, I remember reading in history books about dairy farmers dumping milk in sewers because of low prices caused by over production. Dairy subsidies were created to buy the milk at a guaranteed price to prevent this - so I doubt that elimination of a dairy subsidy and putting milk on the "free market" would raise prices. If dairy farmers thought they could get more money on the "free market", they would not be spending so much money in lobbying their Congress reps to keep it in place.

I think much deeper reading needs to be required to make a sensible personal decision about milk subsidies. I have close family who still operate a small dairy farm. They are the anomaly in dairy farms, most are huge corporate farms subsidized by the government. You are not talking about the little farmer anymore. Most dairy farms have mega milk operations and hire Mexicans for cheap labor.

A young man in his 30's in the neighborhood obtained a loan for over one million and built an operation out of the blue. He spent so much money it made all of our heads spin and then he had trouble making the payments. Bank told him to bring in more cows and start milking even more.

And then what chemicals, antibiotics and hormones are milk drinkers consuming with these huge operations. As I said, do some research and dig deep.

Even deeper investigation should performed regarding farm subsidies in general. I don't know if this is still true but not that long ago there was a feature regarding some lawmakers making nice money off of these subsidies to land owners. Perhaps things have changed but I doubt it, personally.

[rp001]

One must be very naive to believe this is really a "free market society". That went the way of the dinosaur years ago and corporate greed has run rampant with the aid of federal and state allowed "price fixing" done by most every producer in this country. Ever wonder why the price to get a tire repaired is exactly the same in most every place you go. I asked and one owner admitted to me that in regional "meetings" it was what was agreed upon. So much for competition!!!

[Villages PL]

I still need milk on my cereal and that is a dairy product.

Z

zcaveman, thanks for sticking to the subject of "dairy subsidies". Yes, milk is a dairy product and you are welcome to have all you want on your cereal. There's no danger of milk going away if subsidies are ended. And I believe they should be ended so as to get the dairy industry back in line with the free market forces of supply and demand.

[Bucco]

zcaveman, thanks for sticking to the subject of "dairy subsidies". Yes, milk is a dairy product and you are welcome to have all you want on your cereal. There's no danger of milk going away if subsidies are ended. And I believe they should be ended so as to get the dairy industry back in line with the free market forces of supply and demand.

Just again an FYI......actual subsidies for the dairy industry, to my knowledge, are not even being discussed nor will they be discussed in the future.

Food stamps for the poor happen to be a part of this bill and THAT is what the holdup and discussion is about. There is NO discussion on going about either increasing or decreasing any subsidies

If they are, it will be secondary to the Food Stamps which is the reason for the fear of the law expiring the end of the month.

[buggyone]

"There's no danger of milk going away if subsidies are ended. And I believe they should be ended so as to get the dairy industry back in line with the free market forces of supply and demand."

Dairy subsidies are the financial backbone of the huge corporate dairy farms. As others have stated, the family dairy farmer is getting to be a thing of the past. The family dairy farmer was the reason for the creation of the dairy subsidies - not mega-dairy farms owned by huge corporations.

Prices would most likely go down if the subsidies were dropped. This is the reason that huge amounts of money are being spent to lobby for the continuation of subsidies.