Playing Devil's Advocate here

[senior citizen]

With regard to the "outsiders" who do not pay amenity fees or "belong" in The Villages.......I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.......


In hindsight, whether the "outsiders" are tourists from another state, visitors from another country, or just local folks from another 55+ retirement community who chose differently for their own personal reasons (thinking differently is not inherently right nor wrong), good citizens welcome folks to their "town". Good citizens are hospitable.


Having left New Jersey in 1970 for a more rural and tranquil place to raise our family, we have put up with decades upon decades of tourists who clog our roads and our Main Street during the summer months , plus the autumn months of September and October with their huge recreational vehicles or homes away from home bus type large r.v.'s. We put up with it.


They bring in revenue to our town by eating in our restaurants, shopping in our craft shops and retail establishments and touring our museums and monuments. We are the "Gateway to Vermont" and a popular stop before they head over the mountains or north to Lake Champlain. Not only tourists stop here or weekend here, but the parents of the kids who go to our two colleges in town do visit here.


We put up with bumper to bumper backed up traffic from one end of town to the other end of town as they come in and then exit..........it's not a highway, just a narrow road with a caravan of huge R.V. buses.


Merchants and business owners are HAPPY to see all of these visitors; it dropped off a bit after 911......but a lot of the past visitors to Vermont chose to relocate here, believe it or not. We still get plenty of tourists.


Out of staters perceived us to be a safe haven following the horrors of what befell New York City and the aftermath of fear.


Many of these out of staters bought property in our Green Mountains and weekly "come down into town" and would stop in our store. We didn't tell them they "didn't belong" or that their cars were blocking parking places on Main Street that a local family might use. When my husband retired, all of these "mountain transplants from the city" brought him nice gifts and said they'd miss him. We had been city folks once ourselves as well.


We also get summer visitors. All summer long. They are also welcome; as Vermonters love to share the beauty of the Green Mountain State with all of these tourists; they bring in revenue to our small state.


In the winter time we get the rich executives with their snow bunny trophy girlfriends heading for the ski slopes.......they stop in our town to eat and shop. We also get the young ski enthusiasts from N.Y. and N.J., likewise heading for the mountains and the snowmobile trails..............


From my perspective...........it does not seem hospitable to complain so much about a handful of residents of a neighboring 55+ retirement community, of which many here have said they are actually friends of.

O.K. I do get the golf carts on the golf trails or paths.

BUT, what about all of our Vermont out of state tourists with those big oversized R.V.'s on our narrow town streets and winding mountain roads???? A lot bigger than a golf cart, I'd say.


We might gripe a bit when it's slow going trying to get from one side of town to another, but we would never become hateful nor insulting to these visitors who supply the livelihood of many in our town. Mostly, we stay "in" over the Columbus Day Weekend or other times we know they will be here enmasse..........or we find ways around the congestion.


We simply put up with it. They are really all nice people. When we had our store, all of these travelers would stop in, buy a Vermont item, ask where to go for lunch or dinner...or whatever. Our staff was always hospitable. That's the word.......hospitable.


Definition:
treating visitors well: friendly, welcoming, and generous to guests or strangers agreeable: pleasant, agreeable, and providing what somebody needs to live comfortably



p.s. Florida tourists were a large portion of our visitors; they'd come in the summer months. Not everything nor every business is air conditioned in Vermont and when we get a "heat wave" in the 90's it might last for a week.......so naturally, they'd all be complaining about the heat and humidity.........and not stating , "We didn't realize how HOT Vermont is".


Funny when I now think about it. So, it takes all kinds.


I'm sure there are many Villagers who realize that those who visit as a renter in TV do have to get a guest pass from the owner of the home they are renting.........we had one and never even used it as our home had a pool under the birdcage. So, for everyone who is abusing this "amenity" thing, there are others spending money in TV and NOT using a single ammenity.


Plus we used our automobile primarily to go everywhere as the air conditioning was more comfy to go long distances in to view the various villages, which was our main reason for staying; to see all the different villages. Only a few times did my husband (and then our son and his wife) use a golf cart path or tunnel........just around where our rental home was. All the other times we took the car to go out to a restaurant, etc......as we had the baby.


I believe in the old saying, "Live and let live".......plus be hospitable.


God only knows that Vermonters have had to be hospitable to lots of folks from away.


Plus, everyone WE MET IN THE VILLAGES DURING OUR VISIT was super hospitable.
I'd say the complainers about the golf carts from Stonecrest are in the minority.




　

[bmarlo767]

I agree!!

[Peachie]

With regard to the "outsiders" who do not pay amenity fees or "belong" in The Villages.......I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.......


In hindsight, whether the "outsiders" are tourists from another state, visitors from another country, or just local folks from another 55+ retirement community who chose differently for their own personal reasons (thinking differently is not inherently right nor wrong), good citizens welcome folks to their "town". Good citizens are hospitable.


Having left New Jersey in 1970 for a more rural and tranquil place to raise our family, we have put up with decades upon decades of tourists who clog our roads and our Main Street during the summer months , plus the autumn months of September and October with their huge recreational vehicles or homes away from home bus type large r.v.'s. We put up with it.


They bring in revenue to our town by eating in our restaurants, shopping in our craft shops and retail establishments and touring our museums and monuments. We are the "Gateway to Vermont" and a popular stop before they head over the mountains or north to Lake Champlain. Not only tourists stop here or weekend here, but the parents of the kids who go to our two colleges in town do visit here.


We put up with bumper to bumper backed up traffic from one end of town to the other end of town as they come in and then exit..........it's not a highway, just a narrow road with a caravan of huge R.V. buses.


Merchants and business owners are HAPPY to see all of these visitors; it dropped off a bit after 911......but a lot of the past visitors to Vermont chose to relocate here, believe it or not. We still get plenty of tourists.


Out of staters perceived us to be a safe haven following the horrors of what befell New York City and the aftermath of fear.


Many of these out of staters bought property in our Green Mountains and weekly "come down into town" and would stop in our store. We didn't tell them they "didn't belong" or that their cars were blocking parking places on Main Street that a local family might use. When my husband retired, all of these "mountain transplants from the city" brought him nice gifts and said they'd miss him. We had been city folks once ourselves as well.


We also get summer visitors. All summer long. They are also welcome; as Vermonters love to share the beauty of the Green Mountain State with all of these tourists; they bring in revenue to our small state.


In the winter time we get the rich executives with their snow bunny trophy girlfriends heading for the ski slopes.......they stop in our town to eat and shop. We also get the young ski enthusiasts from N.Y. and N.J., likewise heading for the mountains and the snowmobile trails..............


From my perspective...........it does not seem hospitable to complain so much about a handful of residents of a neighboring 55+ retirement community, of which many here have said they are actually friends of.

O.K. I do get the golf carts on the golf trails or paths.

BUT, what about all of our Vermont out of state tourists with those big oversized R.V.'s on our narrow town streets and winding mountain roads???? A lot bigger than a golf cart, I'd say.


We might gripe a bit when it's slow going trying to get from one side of town to another, but we would never become hateful nor insulting to these visitors who supply the livelihood of many in our town. Mostly, we stay "in" over the Columbus Day Weekend or other times we know they will be here enmasse..........or we find ways around the congestion.


We simply put up with it. They are really all nice people. When we had our store, all of these travelers would stop in, buy a Vermont item, ask where to go for lunch or dinner...or whatever. Our staff was always hospitable. That's the word.......hospitable.


Definition:
treating visitors well: friendly, welcoming, and generous to guests or strangers agreeable: pleasant, agreeable, and providing what somebody needs to live comfortably



p.s. Florida tourists were a large portion of our visitors; they'd come in the summer months. Not everything nor every business is air conditioned in Vermont and when we get a "heat wave" in the 90's it might last for a week.......so naturally, they'd all be complaining about the heat and humidity.........and not stating , "We didn't realize how HOT Vermont is".


Funny when I now think about it. So, it takes all kinds.


I'm sure there are many Villagers who realize that those who visit as a renter in TV do have to get a guest pass from the owner of the home they are renting.........we had one and never even used it as our home had a pool under the birdcage. So, for everyone who is abusing this "amenity" thing, there are others spending money in TV and NOT using a single ammenity.


Plus we used our automobile primarily to go everywhere as the air conditioning was more comfy to go long distances in to view the various villages, which was our main reason for staying; to see all the different villages. Only a few times did my husband (and then our son and his wife) use a golf cart path or tunnel........just around where our rental home was. All the other times we took the car to go out to a restaurant, etc......as we had the baby.


I believe in the old saying, "Live and let live".......plus be hospitable.


God only knows that Vermonters have had to be hospitable to lots of folks from away.


Plus, everyone WE MET IN THE VILLAGES DURING OUR VISIT was super hospitable.
I'd say the complainers about the golf carts from Stonecrest are in the minority.




　

Apples and oranges; the residents of The Villages welcome all of the surrounding subdivisions to their main, public streets, not their personal property. Did all those bucolic Vermonters turn their garages, driveways, houses over to the tourists and fleeing people? Do the tourists call Vermonters stingy, unfriendly, selfish for not sharing these items? Same thing here, most Village residents are not interested in turning over their property to the adjacent subdivisions.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I don't think that anyone has a problem with people from surrounding communities or anywhere else coming to the Villages and enjoying what we have here up to the point of the amenities that we pay for.

People do complain about the "snow birds" and the additional traffic and crowded restaurants, but I've never heard anyone say that outsiders shouldn't be at the squares, eating the restaurants or shopping in the stores here. More power to them and as you say, it injects more money into our community which is good for everyone.

The objection is to when outsiders are coming to our recreation clubs, swimming in our pools and playing on our executive golf courses.

When all of those tourists came to your town and spent all that money, you might have not liked all the extra traffic and crowds, but you put up with it because you knew that it was good for the community. But you did not let them park in your driveway or sleep in your house.

I see the rec centers, pools, exec golf courses as sort of a private property open only to the "owners". The same as your house.

[manaboutown]

Do you Vermonters welcome folks who come up with off road vehicles and drive them over your farms or other private property without gaining permission? What about hunters and fishermen: are they allowed to hunt and fish on private property without being granted access by the landowner?

It is a question of unauthorized use of private property, trespass, not access to public roads and public areas or commercial establishments.

[senior citizen]

I agree!!


Great minds think alike. Kidding aside, when I really think about it, there are plenty of beautiful states in this great United States of ours that are deemed as tourist destinations.........any smart marketing person involved in tourism or real estate does not exclude but tries to include visitors, no matter what their mode of transportation. The end result is more revenue for that particular place.



When we were teenagers and would head to the Jersey Shore on Sunday mornings, there was always traffic.......coming back north in the evening was even worse......hence the Garden State Parkway got the nickname of the "Garden State Parking Lot"........but none of the towns along the "exits" banned any of us from heading to the shore..........due to our clogging up their roads. It's a short summer season and the people who own businesses at the Jersey shore depend on visitors.


Any tourist town out west, whether in Colorado or South Dakota, Iowa, etc., Wyoming or wherever, welcomes visitors from near and far, no matter what their mode of transportation, as it brings in revenue.


Maine is a beautiful state.....it's a fact of life. It's a gorgeous state which we've explored from the mountains to the seashore, up and down the coast to New Brunswick Canada and beyond.......but those few short months of summertime, when everyone flocks to the beaches, both route one and even the Maine Pike at times.......becomes a nightmare of cars. Do they ban us? No, because they need our financial support as tourists spending money in their beautiful state.


Likewise, people coming into The Villages are there because it is so beautiful.......they will spend money which will only keep the infrastructure nourished and growing..........you put up with the "outsiders".
I would welcome them.


Just wondering if anyone from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek ever relocates to The Villages? Would they be welcomed or be considered disloyal as they originally "chose" another 55+ community before they saw the light?


We haven't seen it, except the website, but I would wager a "guestimate" that people from less populated areas up north seek out smaller communities as that is what they are used to.


I really doubt if everyone is saying, "Let's go and take advantage of TV and use all of their amenities for free."


People I know do not think that way. I certainly do not.

[Peachie]

Any tourist town out west, whether in Colorado or South Dakota, Iowa, etc., Wyoming or wherever, welcomes visitors from near and far, no matter what their mode of transportation, as it brings in revenue.


Maine is a beautiful state.....it's a fact of life. It's a gorgeous state which we've explored from the mountains to the seashore, up and down the coast to New Brunswick Canada and beyond.......but those few short months of summertime, when everyone flocks to the beaches, both route one and even the Maine Pike at times.......becomes a nightmare of cars. Do they ban us? No, because they need our financial support as tourists spending money in their beautiful state.


Likewise, people coming into The Villages are there because it is so beautiful.......they will spend money which will only keep the infrastructure nourished and growing..........you put up with the "outsiders".
I would welcome them.


Just wondering if anyone from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek ever relocates to The Villages? Would they be welcomed or be considered disloyal as they originally "chose" another 55+ community before they saw the light?

There is no conversation to keep Stonecresters out of the Squares and public areas of The Villages and they are welcome and would absolutely be welcome if they should decide to move here. One could look at the people of Spruce Creek South which is actually closer to Village property, they know they are welcome and they don't assume the private property of The Villages is also theirs. BTW, aren't the roads in Maine public roads?

[senior citizen]

Apples and oranges; the residents of The Villages welcome all of the surrounding subdivisions to their main, public streets, not their personal property. Did all those bucolic Vermonters turn their garages, driveways, houses over to the tourists and fleeing people? Do the tourists call Vermonters stingy, unfriendly, selfish for not sharing these items? Same thing here, most Village residents are not interested in turning over their property to the adjacent subdivisions.



They actually do. Funny you should ask. During fall foliage season in particular, when there is no longer any room at the inn and every motel in town is full, our chamber of commerce asks locals to open their homes and provide a room or two for visitors for the fall foliage weekend........and they do. Scouts honor.


Anyone who has ever been stranded without lodging on a busy holiday weekend can relate to above paragraph.
It only happened to us once..........we normally made reservations, but this one time we decided to head east to Maine during our own Fall Foliage Weekend in October..........traveling there, the roads over the mountains were empty.......after a nice visit in northern Maine, we decided to overnight at Bar Harbor..........driving "in" we saw too many cars driving "out". Long story, but not a single room. We stopped up and down the Maine coast and even went inland.............hours of driving....no rooms. Finally found a room in South Portland........headed back the next morning..........awful feeling to have no lodging............so again, yes, Vermonters open their homes to stranded tourists and supply a room and shower, etc.


Our merchants also draw up maps for them when they are lost or not sure where to go.......they go the "extra mile" to be hospitable. My husband has even planned their itineraries when they've never been to New England before......and it is their first visit.........they always would ask, "Where should we go? What should we see?" and he'd send them to all of our favorite haunts in Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine and upstate New York.


This would be the same exact occurrence when it's graduation weekend for the local colleges and the parents and grandparents can't find a place to stay..........so yes, they do open their homes. We also open our homes to foreign exchange students.......


Everyone has been a visitor, at one time or another, in a foreign land or strange city........so being hospitable to the visitor is always welcomed.


Our daughter worked in a local crafts store/pottery when she was in high school, to save up money for her month long trip to Spain........she would often tell the story of when Susan Lucci and her husband and two kids would "shop" on their way back from skiing and how obnoxious the kids were.......but she and the rest of the sales staff had been taught to be polite and welcoming.......to all.


End of subject. I don't plan to ride a golf cart either to or from Stonecrest.....or to Walmart. That's what cars are for.

[Peachie]

They actually do. Funny you should ask. During fall foliage season in particular, when there is no longer any room at the inn and every motel in town is full, our chamber of commerce asks locals to open their homes and provide a room or two for visitors........and they do. Scouts honor.


Our merchants also draw up maps for them when they are lost or not sure where to go.......they go the "extra mile" to be hospitable. My husband has even planned their itineraries when they've never been to New England before......and it is their first visit.........they always would ask, "Where should we go? What should we see?" and he'd send them to all of our favorite haunts in Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine and upstate New York.

This would be the same exact occurrence when it's graduation weekend for the local colleges and the parents and grandparents can't find a place to stay..........so yes, they do open their homes. We also open our homes to foreign exchange students.......


Everyone has been a visitor, at one time or another, in a foreign land or strange city........so being hospitable to the visitor is always welcomed.


Our daughter worked in a local crafts store/pottery when she was in high school, to save up money for her month long trip to Spain........she would often tell the story of when Susan Lucci and her husband and two kids would "shop" on their way back from skiing and how obnoxious the kids were.......but she and the rest of the sales staff had been taught to be polite and welcoming.......to all.


End of subject. I don't plan to ride a golf cart either to or from Stonecrest.....or to Walmart. That's what cars are for.

I must admit I am surprised you have entertained so many strangers in your home with Vermont's drug problems, that you mentioned earlier. It is a brave thing to do given the risks it may involve.

[senior citizen]

I don't think that anyone has a problem with people from surrounding communities or anywhere else coming to the Villages and enjoying what we have here up to the point of the amenities that we pay for.

People do complain about the "snow birds" and the additional traffic and crowded restaurants, but I've never heard anyone say that outsiders shouldn't be at the squares, eating the restaurants or shopping in the stores here. More power to them and as you say, it injects more money into our community which is good for everyone.

The objection is to when outsiders are coming to our recreation clubs, swimming in our pools and playing on our executive golf courses.

When all of those tourists came to your town and spent all that money, you might have not liked all the extra traffic and crowds, but you put up with it because you knew that it was good for the community. But you did not let them park in your driveway or sleep in your house.

I see the rec centers, pools, exec golf courses as sort of a private property open only to the "owners". The same as your house.


Yes, you are right.


Also, why would they want to use the pools, golf courses and so forth, when they have their own? Could it be they are visiting their friends and were invited? I don't know. Just wondering. Some have stated they have friends who live in S.C.


As far as vehicles, I was showing the comparison that the huge bus-like Recreational Vehicles that many retirees choose to travel in when visiting New England are extremely large in comparison to golf carts that some are complaining about.


If all the residents are so up in arms over folks from S.C. invading TV, why don't they hold some kind of public forum and express their grievances, such as Town Meeting Day? Or a smaller type meeting in a rec center.
Just like with foreign countries, once it is all expressed, perhaps they can find a common solution. Hope so.

[Thnonne]

Tourists, snowbirds, potential buyers, visitors in cars, YES! People who choose to live in a community with cheaper home prices and less amenities but wish to use the amenities that the residents of The Villages pay for, NO! If you want to take advantage of all The Villages has to offer, move here, don't expect to not pay for the facilities and activities and still get to use them. That includes the cart paths which are for the use of the villagers in their golf cart community.

[Peachie]

Yes, you are right.


If all the residents are so up in arms over folks from S.C. invading TV, why don't they hold some kind of public forum and express their grievances, such as Town Meeting Day? Or a smaller type meeting in a rec center.
Just like with foreign countries, once it is all expressed, perhaps they can find a common solution. Hope so.




Senior, I think you are confused; we are NOT up in arms over SC invading the TV's, we want to preserve our golf cart paths for Village residents, period.

[Bogie Shooter]

Senior, I think you are confused; we are NOT up in arms over SC invading the TV's, we want to preserve our golf cart paths for Village residents, period.

Really?

[senior citizen]

I must admit I am surprised you have entertained so many strangers in your home with Vermont's drug problems, that you mentioned earlier. It is a brave thing to do given the risks it may involve.


We have never done it (opened our home to tourists via the Chamber of Commerce). I never said we did it. I said we have hosted foreign exchange students. One thing I do not have is confusion nor a problem with interpreting what someone else is trying to say. Far from it.


My husband and I were just saying that you remind us so much of our son when he joined the Debating Team in high school, along with Model Congress and Model U.N. He was a Freshman and continued on throughout high school and well into college.......


It's those three places that he learned to "debate" and argue a point to death. He would challenge us every night at dinner time, totally changing what the original thought was. I have a very laid back personality and could deal with it....thinking back now.


He continued on to excel at university and beyond........
I always thought he should have become a prosecutor.


As far as the "drug problem" in Vermont, you also took that train of thought totally out of context at the time. We are proud of our young police chief and all the drug task forces in our state who are hopefully winning the war against "STRANGERS FROM OUT OF STATE" coming up from the big cities and seeing Vermont as a soft target, trying to sell and hook the younger crowd on very dangerous drugs. What's in our favor is they stand out like a sore thumb up here...and are easy to spot, in more ways than one.


No confusion here.........if my intellect doesn't click on, my intuition will.
So, not to worry.

[Indydealmaker]

This whole Stonecrest golf cart access thing has gotten blown out of proportion.

It has been reported that fewer than 50 people regularly cart from Stonecrest into The Villages area. I have also been told that there are actually no more than 500 carts in Stonecrest. The Villages has more than 50,000. Not much of additional wear and tear. But if there is a legal concern regarding a precedent involving liability, then that should be more important that a handful of people having their access restricted to The Villages by golf cart. They are free and welcome to drive their cars.

As far as "outsiders" using The Villages amenities, those true amenities for which we pay are not easily available to non-villagers. They cannot use the pools, golf courses and rec centers without showing ID. If they attempt to do so, they should be deterred by regular "stop and frisks".

[graciegirl]

Golly, golly, Miss Molly.


There are red herrings all over the place in a lot of recent posts.


I learned to understand the term "red herring" from Rubicon just recently. Love this forum.


Bottom line is that we don't need more carts during the next three months. Cars can be driven here from Stonecrest 24/7. Cars make more traffic, and make things more dangerous, but they aren't on the cart paths, clogging things up MORE. Cars are much more protective of the people inside.


Bottom line is if ya wanna drive on our golf cart paths than live here. Bottom line is that.


Bogie....You know I respect you. Don't you agree on some level????

[Bogie Shooter]

This whole Stonecrest golf cart access thing has gotten blown out of proportion.

It has been reported that fewer than 50 people regularly cart from Stonecrest into The Villages area. I have also been told that there are actually no more than 500 carts in Stonecrest. The Villages has more than 50,000. Not much of additional wear and tear. But if there is a legal concern regarding a precedent involving liability, then that should be more important that a handful of people having their access restricted to The Villages by golf cart. They are free and welcome to drive their cars.

As far as "outsiders" using The Villages amenities, those true amenities for which we pay are not easily available to non-villagers. They cannot use the pools, golf courses and rec centers without showing ID. If they attempt to do so, they should be deterred by regular "stop and frisks".

Yes, Gracie. My two cents worth.
The above post sums the issue up very well. As Steve has tried to do before.
However, posters have and will continue to debate the issue, hundreds of posts many being repititious and adding nothing.
Then just when the dust settles along comes someone ( guessing a non-resident) stirring things back up with a new thread.
And lo and behold we now have our congressmen involved in making sure people can drive their carts to the doctor's office.
The SILLY SEASON continues.

[graciegirl]

Yes, Gracie. My two cents worth.
The above post sums the issue up very well. As Steve has tried to do before.
However, posters have and will continue to debate the issue, hundreds of posts many being repititious and adding nothing.
Then just when the dust settles along comes someone ( guessing a non-resident) stirring things back up with a new thread.
And lo and behold we now have our congressmen involved in making sure people can drive their carts to the doctor's office.
The SILLY SEASON continues.



Always refreshing Bogie. Thank you sir.

[billethkid]

isolated whines being treated as an overall condition when it is not.

Don't most of the neighboring communities welcome us and anybody else to use their streets to get to their restaurants or use their streets to get to their golf courses which they are happy to let us use??? Those trips represent revenue of one sort or another.

Having our neighbors use "our" multi modal paths to frequent "our" businesses and restaurants is no different.

Nobody has suggested they come in and use "our" golf courses or "our" restaurants.

The more successful "our" businesses are the better for those of us who live there.

Nothing new here that isn't done in any town, city, village, etc.....except for the few minority positions which we all duly note.

btk

[graciegirl]

Hmm. Just thought of something. WE can drive our golfcarts to Stonecrest and play on their course, but they can't drive their golf carts here to play on our courses.


What do you think is gonna happen?

[DaleMN]

Anybody watch the Hatfields and McCoys? :doh:

[Madelaine Amee]

Anybody watch the Hatfields and McCoys? :doh:

My thoughts exactly:smiley: So far no guns involved .................

[Peachie]

isolated whines being treated as an overall condition when it is not.

Don't most of the neighboring communities welcome us and anybody else to use their streets to get to their restaurants or use their streets to get to their golf courses which they are happy to let us use??? Those trips represent revenue of one sort or another.

Having our neighbors use "our" multi modal paths to frequent "our" businesses and restaurants is no different.


btk

Bille, I totally disagree with you on this one. Everyone loves the Morse business model that built this community and so many want to change it into something one wouldn't recognize in a few years if they could all implement their changes.

Almost all retirement communities have pools, club houses, entertainment, rec centers BUT what they don't have is full golf cart access for which you and I and everyone living in The Villages pay a premium. You are willing to open the borders to allow everyone to use their golfcarts on our paths; what a can of worms that would be. First and foremost would be security, how easy would it be to glide into The Villages in an electric cart and wreak havoc.

You and I have to get in our cars to patronize businesses beyond our borders here, why is that such a stretch for Stonecresters? (Who, BTW, have gates and can keep out carts other than their own.)

We'll see what happens, many of us won't stay to find out how fast things go down hill if all outside communities are given access to the paths.

[donb9006]

With regard to the "outsiders" who do not pay amenity fees or "belong" in The Villages.......I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a moment.......


In hindsight, whether the "outsiders" are tourists from another state, visitors from another country, or just local folks from another 55+ retirement community who chose differently for their own personal reasons (thinking differently is not inherently right nor wrong), good citizens welcome folks to their "town". Good citizens are hospitable.


Having left New Jersey in 1970 for a more rural and tranquil place to raise our family, we have put up with decades upon decades of tourists who clog our roads and our Main Street during the summer months , plus the autumn months of September and October with their huge recreational vehicles or homes away from home bus type large r.v.'s. We put up with it.


They bring in revenue to our town by eating in our restaurants, shopping in our craft shops and retail establishments and touring our museums and monuments. We are the "Gateway to Vermont" and a popular stop before they head over the mountains or north to Lake Champlain. Not only tourists stop here or weekend here, but the parents of the kids who go to our two colleges in town do visit here.


We put up with bumper to bumper backed up traffic from one end of town to the other end of town as they come in and then exit..........it's not a highway, just a narrow road with a caravan of huge R.V. buses.


Merchants and business owners are HAPPY to see all of these visitors; it dropped off a bit after 911......but a lot of the past visitors to Vermont chose to relocate here, believe it or not. We still get plenty of tourists.


Out of staters perceived us to be a safe haven following the horrors of what befell New York City and the aftermath of fear.


Many of these out of staters bought property in our Green Mountains and weekly "come down into town" and would stop in our store. We didn't tell them they "didn't belong" or that their cars were blocking parking places on Main Street that a local family might use. When my husband retired, all of these "mountain transplants from the city" brought him nice gifts and said they'd miss him. We had been city folks once ourselves as well.


We also get summer visitors. All summer long. They are also welcome; as Vermonters love to share the beauty of the Green Mountain State with all of these tourists; they bring in revenue to our small state.


In the winter time we get the rich executives with their snow bunny trophy girlfriends heading for the ski slopes.......they stop in our town to eat and shop. We also get the young ski enthusiasts from N.Y. and N.J., likewise heading for the mountains and the snowmobile trails..............


From my perspective...........it does not seem hospitable to complain so much about a handful of residents of a neighboring 55+ retirement community, of which many here have said they are actually friends of.

O.K. I do get the golf carts on the golf trails or paths.

BUT, what about all of our Vermont out of state tourists with those big oversized R.V.'s on our narrow town streets and winding mountain roads???? A lot bigger than a golf cart, I'd say.


We might gripe a bit when it's slow going trying to get from one side of town to another, but we would never become hateful nor insulting to these visitors who supply the livelihood of many in our town. Mostly, we stay "in" over the Columbus Day Weekend or other times we know they will be here enmasse..........or we find ways around the congestion.


We simply put up with it. They are really all nice people. When we had our store, all of these travelers would stop in, buy a Vermont item, ask where to go for lunch or dinner...or whatever. Our staff was always hospitable. That's the word.......hospitable.


Definition:
treating visitors well: friendly, welcoming, and generous to guests or strangers agreeable: pleasant, agreeable, and providing what somebody needs to live comfortably



p.s. Florida tourists were a large portion of our visitors; they'd come in the summer months. Not everything nor every business is air conditioned in Vermont and when we get a "heat wave" in the 90's it might last for a week.......so naturally, they'd all be complaining about the heat and humidity.........and not stating , "We didn't realize how HOT Vermont is".


Funny when I now think about it. So, it takes all kinds.


I'm sure there are many Villagers who realize that those who visit as a renter in TV do have to get a guest pass from the owner of the home they are renting.........we had one and never even used it as our home had a pool under the birdcage. So, for everyone who is abusing this "amenity" thing, there are others spending money in TV and NOT using a single ammenity.


Plus we used our automobile primarily to go everywhere as the air conditioning was more comfy to go long distances in to view the various villages, which was our main reason for staying; to see all the different villages. Only a few times did my husband (and then our son and his wife) use a golf cart path or tunnel........just around where our rental home was. All the other times we took the car to go out to a restaurant, etc......as we had the baby.


I believe in the old saying, "Live and let live".......plus be hospitable.


God only knows that Vermonters have had to be hospitable to lots of folks from away.


Plus, everyone WE MET IN THE VILLAGES DURING OUR VISIT was super hospitable.
I'd say the complainers about the golf carts from Stonecrest are in the minority.




　

You've missed the point. People come to the villages to USE "our" things and then they go home. People visiting your old town spent the night, ate at the restaurants, bought gas and supplies. The "visitors" here are just taking advantage of what others built and then going home. Has anyone been asked when at a "villages" restaurant whether you were a resident or not? They may eat here occasionally, but most of the time, they come, use, and leave. Completely different.

[Bogie Shooter]

You've missed the point. People come to the villages to USE "our" things and then they go home. People visiting your old town spent the night, ate at the restaurants, bought gas and supplies. The "visitors" here are just taking advantage of what others built and then going home. Has anyone been asked when at a "villages" restaurant whether you were a resident or not? They may eat here occasionally, but most of the time, they come, use, and leave. Completely different.

As a Villager, I am glad people visit our commercial establishments. Without them we would not have as much as we do.
These places are really not just "ours".

[Villages PL]

When all the motels and inns are full and Vermonters offer their rooms to tourists, how much do they charge? How much do they have to get to make up for the inconvenience of having strangers traipsing through their house and upseting their daily routines? I imagine it must be a hefty sum!! In that case it's not so much friendlyness as it is a chance to make a quick (tax free) buck. :o

Nothing against Vermonters, it's just human nature for people to do this and I have heard about it happening elsewhere.

[njbchbum]

When all the motels and inns are full and Vermonters offer their rooms to tourists, how much do they charge? How much do they have to get to make up for the inconvenience of having strangers traipsing through their house and upseting their daily routines? I imagine it must be a hefty sum!! In that case it's not so much friendlyness as it is a chance to make a quick (tax free) buck. :o

Nothing against Vermonters, it's just human nature for people to do this and I have heard about it happening elsewhere.

There may be some who try to take advantage of tourists - but we are talking about Vermonters - and they are a kind and charitable group of their own ilk. Have spent much time visiting Vermont and I know from personal experience that they are friendly and welcoming and not adverse to what you describe as 'inconvenience' when it comes to helping someone. Fact - the folks I have come to know there are every bit as genuine as our senior citizen.

[Xavier]

I think the original poster (OP) finally has convinced me - the OP should feel comfortable and satisfied with the feeling tone of the community in which he/she choses to live. I believe that Stone Crest would be a wonderful choice in OP's particular case.

As someone with a little money actually invested in The Villages and it's amenities (including the golf paths), I'm very happy with the gate situation as it is. I welcome all of my friends from all of the other various communities to partake of all of the entertainment, shopping and activities that are are open to all of the non-residents. Our quality of life is better because of them.

Xavier

[senior citizen]

There may be some who try to take advantage of tourists - but we are talking about Vermonters - and they are a kind and charitable group of their own ilk. Have spent much time visiting Vermont and I know from personal experience that they are friendly and welcoming and not adverse to what you describe as 'inconvenience' when it comes to helping someone. Fact - the folks I have come to know there are every bit as genuine as our senior citizen.



Appreciate that.......the feeling is mutual. You've traveled a lot and understand the differences in many regions, thus having a frame of reference and judgement......."the faculty of being able to make critical distinctions and achieve a balanced viewpoint; discernment"......and I thank you for your intelligent posts.

When we first came to Vermont in 1970, from N.J., it was truly a "different world".

Our "inlaws" in Jersey told us we were not living in the "real world". I think they were jealous as they'd drive up every weekend to stay with us. Go figure. I felt like I was running a hotel...first with a two year old and soon with a new baby......plus every weekend a house full of guests.

The native Vermonters were not as talkative as our birth state's residents; they'd size you up silently. Back then they lived very simple lives and were very self sufficient as far as providing their own food (whether through gardening, hunting, fishing, etc.) and the gatherings we attended were definitely not akin to what we left behind in N.J. We adjusted.

There was no Jewish deli or Italian restaurant.....just plain and simple food at the A&P. There was no Chinese take out restaurant. I went to church in a dress and heels and soon realized the rest wore hunting jackets, wool plaids and jeans. We adjusted. I kept two wardrobes for my children....one to wear in Vermont and one for visiting N.J.

We adjusted and soon enough learned that our adopted neighbors were indeed the salt of the earth and as you say, friendly (in their own quiet ways). This is why Vermont always drew us back "like a magnet" on the two occasions we briefly left. It was "home".

Our own children were truly raised in a "Leave it to Beaver" kind of small town atmosphere and home life.......totally alien from our city childhoods.

A Vermonter's handshake means something. Their "word" means something. They do not intrude on their neighbors lives.......that's for sure........but they are there when and if they are needed. We truly miss all of our dear departed Vermont friends and neighbors. The end of a wonderful era.

You don't have to "sign a contract" or give a deposit prior to having work done. A hand shake is enough. When we returned from Florida twenty years ago, our car passed with that of our Town Selectmen, a longtime neighbor of ours........he rolled down his window and welcomed us back, had heard it through the grapevine.....didn't demean us for leaving or returning and said he would just put our names BACK ON THE TOWN VOTING LIST. We didn't even have to go down to the town hall in person. Definitely a simpler life.

Aside to Villages PL......yes, I'm sure the ones providing lodging for the stranded motorists/tourists to Vermont when there was "no room at the inn", were doing it for extra money...........as they needed that extra cash , no doubt, to pay their winter heating bills or pay their property taxes. No ulterior motives.

Some were just more hospitable and enjoyed hosting. Vermont was not a "smokestack industry" kind of state, so if you weren't a dairy farmer, sweater mill worker, apple orchard owner, teacher or in health care, artisan, merchant, jobs were scarce. Not only did they take in "guests" but they tapped the maple trees and did seasonal type chores to get extra money for their families.

This may sound weird nowadays, but back in 1973, after we had spent one year on Florida's east coast, missing the four seasons, the apples, the crisp autumn weather, etc........and the SNOW.......believe it or not, we decided to move back to Vermont.........my husband traveled back and was going to scout out Chelsea, Vermont a place we had just read about in "Vermont Life Magazine"......while I stayed behind as our daughter was in kindergarten at Patrick Air Force Base in Satellite Beach Florida and our son was a toddler.

(Once our kids were in school, from first grade through high school graduation, plus University of Vermont, we stayed put in the same Vermont neighborhood).

Anyone who has been to central Vermont knows that there are very few places to stay as far as motels, lodging, etc. This goes for our state capital as well; only a handful of motels and when they are filled for sporting events, graduations, etc. there is no place to stay...........unless one had planned ahead. Thus, nowadays, the huge influx of monster bus R.V.'s on our narrow winding country roads.

The rest of the state is not much different, unless one is visiting Burlington where the university is. Even now, rooms are scarce in our town of 16,000 population. It never changes; the 16,000. Our educated kids leave for the cities and out west; the newcomers come to replace them.

Getting back to husband's trip to rural Vermont, since the 1970's are a long long time ago.........I don't recall how he was put in contact with this elderly woman, but he was........she offered him a room in her home in Randolph Vermont (home of Vermont Technical College).......Randolph is a tiny town we'd pass through enroute to Northfield, Vermont where Norwich University is.......I recall it had a great Ben Franklin (five and dime type store)......very quaint. Very very quaint. Florida doesn't do quaint like Vermont does.

Anyway, when he returned back to Florida and us.........he was so impressed with the hospitality of this old Vermont lady........she served him dinner every night and included a few of her old lady friends, who thoroughly enjoyed having the company of a young "late 20's" male guest in the house. He was clean cut, well dressed and didn't look like "Jack the Ripper". He was there to look at real estate, so out of the house during the day.

One dinnertime she served him artichokes as an appetizer course (in her lovely Victorian dining room) which he didn't have a clue how to eat........she showed him. Not sure if her instructions came in handy later in life, as I've never prepared artichokes.

Now, here was a single widowed elderly lady, living alone, and she wasn't afraid of my husband. Obviously, times were different back in the decade of the 70's. Vermont was different. It remained safe and idyllic for many decades.........only most recently getting this "drug lord stuff" coming up from the cities. Since profiling is illegal, I will not go into detail on "WHO" is bringing the drugs up to Vermont nowadays. So, the constant snide remarks about Vermont are ill called for. Our "problems" are all NEW and very alien to the type of "lifestyle" we had grown accustomed to....

My mother and stepfather even moved up from N.J. to retire in our town and when my mom would get home from a senior citizen center bus trip she'd see our monument and always tell me, "I am so happy to be back in GOD'S COUNTRY". She loved Vermont and was able to be independent and safe up into her mid 80's, passing at 91 , after living with us for a long time due to her Alzheimers, and at rest forever in her beloved Green Mountain "adopted" state. Ditto for my stepfather. They have a panoramic view of the Green Mountains from their resting places; a country cemetery.

When we go to the cemetery to clean their grave, we see all of our neighbors and friends and the long time Vermont residents born and bred here. There is a sense of continuity up here. We truly grew to respect the simple ways of the native Vermonter. New Hampshire folks and Maniacs are much the same.
Ditto for across the border in New York state.

The Chamber of Commerce would place a notice in our daily newspaper, asking if anyone would be willing to host stranded tourists for the Columbus Day weekend in October, as our few motels would fill up very quickly.

Whatever "method of checking out these people" that the Chamber did.......I do not know. But, I think they could discern a normal family or couple "leep peeping" vs. dangerous criminal types, which never even entered someone's thoughts in those days..........

One of our young neighbors back then, whose mom was a child model for Norman Rockwell, illustrator, who had a studio in Arlington, Vermont......would tell me how her parents, once the five kids were gone......would open their big farmhouse to these "leef peepers" and I never heard of them being afraid or bothered. The gentleman is a great "historian of Vermont lore and history" and former town council member.........our friend's parents enjoyed hosting the "tourists to Vermont". Nothing fancy. Just a typical Vermont farmhouse.

Sometimes, hikers on the Appalachian Trail , passing through Vermont, also get "taken in" if weather is inclement.

We don't have a lot of "nightlife" or exciting things up here, such as Disney World, so those who toured Vermont, for the most part, either wanted to experience the beauty of the mountains and fall foliage or in other seasons, to have a peaceful "escape" from the cities.

After 911, many flocked up here from the N.Y. Metro area to relocate and raise their families.

Alas, times have changed.........and everyone now should be careful and diligent in discerning what strangers they might let enter their homes........no matter where they live.

Vermont was a GREAT PEACEFUL BEAUTIFUL STATE in which to raise our family and we have lived here for 44+ years......most of it in the same neighborhood at the top of the hill on the outskirts of town next to the apple orchards with mountain views surrounding us and out our front windows.

As anyone ages, their old bones and joints crave the warmth and the sunshine........and since Florida was our chosen vacation state for most of our 48 years of marriage, we have explored it from coast to coast and up and down..........and chosen it for our final destination, even though we moved to Florida twice, once at age 27 and last time at age 49 once our kids were out of college and married....but had our new "baby", my mom, in tow. Long story.

Now the time is right. Life is what happens when you are making other plans.

But still, we do have a loyalty to our adopted State of Vermont, having enjoyed it for 44+ years out of 68 and do not care to hear it maligned....or my statements taken out of context.......if truth be told. If I can "read between the lines" and discern what people are meaning to say.....I can't see why my words are often misconstrued.

No place is perfect. But there is a perfect place for various stages of our lives. No matter where we come from. Diversity enriches one's perspective on life and believe it or not, the city mouse can learn to appreciate the country mouse's way of life.

My understanding of all the interesting intelligent posters on this TOTV is that they are "coming from their own life perspective of the way things are or could be". I find all of the varying viewpoints most interesting to read and ponder. Everyone's opinion is valuable. Or should be.

Nothing is cast in stone. Non residents' comments shouldn't be misconstrued, even if only by a "very few". I do get a laugh out of the ones who tell us not to come. Very territorial.

Everyone has been a "stranger in a strange land" at one time or another.
Imagine the feeling if the local residents told them "not to come" or "to go back"....

Or couched their hidden meanings in cryptic writings....

However, the kindhearted ones who are authentically kind and genuine, surely outweigh the very few who are not. This pertains to all of life. Not just TOTV.

It is not hard to discern the truly genuine and authentic souls.

The Villagers we met in person were all wonderful and kind people; no doubt they never posted on this site.....or perhaps even heard of it. Everyone seemed contented. We had a very warm safe feeling during our month + visit as "strangers in a strange land". We have chosen to stay.

God willing .........based on if our home sells, that is.

We have tons of snow on top of ice on top of snow........pretty...a true winter wonderland.......but thinking spring. Happy holidays to all.............
...........and to all a good night.

[graciegirl]

Or couched their hidden meanings in cryptic writings....

However, the kindhearted ones who are authentically kind and genuine, surely outweigh the very few who are not. This pertains to all of life. Not just TOTV.

It is not hard to discern the truly genuine and authentic souls.











You are a kind and loving woman, and I think you will not change your views much when you join us here. BUT YOU might change them a little on this issue when you truly own property here.


I think that this issue is NOT overwhelmingly important...except for the fact that it will set a precedent that will affect us more adversely in the southern areas of TV and in so doing, increase golf cart traffic everywhere inside our town.


Correct me if I am wrong that I read that Fruitland Park was allowing Golf carts on their streets JUST in the last six or eight months, and I have to think that was in anticipation and hopes that the Dairy Farm inside their RECENTLY ADVANCED city limits would become part of The Villages and also part of Fruitland Park. Which could potentially be a huge bunch of folks as Fruitland Park will grow homes adjacent and contiguous to The Villages boundaries and could be a LOT of new golf cart drivers allowed on our paths with all that entails.


I think it is an advantage for others to use the businesses here and keep them going, but I really don't think we need them as much as we used to. But ALL of them can still get here by car. ALL that have cars, and most do.


I think most of us who live here are very hospitable and kind and welcoming and warm and genuine.....but not stupid.

I think that The Morses have good sense in these matters. AND excellent lawyers.

[perrjojo]

Devils Advocate?.. I am confused as to why anyone would want to stir the pot on this issue.

[CFrance]

Devils Advocate?.. I am confused as to why anyone would want to stir the pot on this issue.

I agree. The pot's been boiling over of its own accord enough without someone roiling the dregs every time it simmers down.

[kittygilchrist]

zactly Cyndy. ergo, some posters are on the list of those whose posts are invisible...

[Carl in Tampa]

Well, senior citizen has written a beautiful memoir of the bucolic life in Vermont, which is lovely, but it does not apply to our situation here in The Villages.

Everyone is welcome to come to The Villages and enjoy the public facilities, including the free outdoor entertainment at the Town Squares, the ticketed entertainment at Savannah Center, the restaurants (except Katy Belle's which is a private club), the stores of the merchants and the medical facilities.

What they are not welcome to do is operate golf carts on our multi-modal paths, swim in our swimming pools, use our executive golf courses or use our recreational facilities; all of which are supported by fees paid by the residents of The Villages.

I categorically reject any suggestion that following the rules makes me selfish or inhospitable.

:spoken:

[Bogie Shooter]

Devils Advocate?.. I am confused as to why anyone would want to stir the pot on this issue.

Including those who don't own property in TV!

[Bogie Shooter]

Well, senior citizen has written a beautiful memoir of the bucolic life in Vermont, which is lovely, but it does not apply to our situation here in The Villages.

Everyone is welcome to come to The Villages and enjoy the public facilities, including the free outdoor entertainment at the Town Squares, the ticketed entertainment at Savannah Center, the restaurants (except Katy Belle's which is a private club), the stores of the merchants and the medical facilities.

What they are not welcome to do is operate golf carts on our multi-modal paths, swim in our swimming pools, use our executive golf courses or use our recreational facilities; all of which are supported by fees paid by the residents of The Villages.

I categorically reject any suggestion that following the rules makes me selfish or inhospitable.

:spoken:

I agree, what does it have to do with TV??

[kittygilchrist]

ergo...