Colony Golf Cart Bridge - more info

[Madelaine Amee]

I have started this in a new thread because I did not want to "bury" this information in the old thread.

December 13, 2013 Daily Sun Local Section/from Page C1 Upper Left hand corner of page C5

This article starts out with the sentence "The possibility of building a golf cart bridge over Colony Boulevard is now on the table". It goes on to discuss in detail what the Members of the Project Wide Advisory Committee are working on regarding this matter. It does not state that this bridge is a done deal, therefore maybe the people in the other thread who have some excellent, and much less expensive, ideas could get in touch with this Committee and Ms. Tutt with their excellent suggestions.

By the way, the quoted $400,000 cost is just a drop in the bucket - paragraph 6 in this article states "this estimate does not include engineering fees or other costs such as designing it to meet TV architectural design standards........." So it is going to be very expensive.

[CHESTERFIELDROSE]

Thanks for posting the facts as they are stated. Move people like you are need on TOTV

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Thanks for posting the facts as they are stated. Move people like you are need on TOTV

:BigApplause::BigApplause:I agree 100% too many people on TOTV act as if they know what's going on or they have a "connection" and argue points when they have the facts all wrong!

[Peachie]

I have started this in a new thread because I did not want to "bury" this information in the old thread.

December 13, 2013 Daily Sun Local Section/from Page C1 Upper Left hand corner of page C5

This article starts out with the sentence "The possibility of building a golf cart bridge over Colony Boulevard is now on the table". It goes on to discuss in detail what the Members of the Project Wide Advisory Committee are working on regarding this matter. It does not state that this bridge is a done deal, therefore maybe the people in the other thread who have some excellent, and much less expensive, ideas could get in touch with this Committee and Ms. Tutt with their excellent suggestions.

By the way, the quoted $400,000 cost is just a drop in the bucket - paragraph 6 in this article states "this estimate does not include engineering fees or other costs such as designing it to meet TV architectural design standards........." So it is going to be very expensive.

Thanks for the update. I'll wait for the final plan but if it is workable, I'd like to see the bridge. As Gracie pointed out in a previous post, the impact per household would not be great and a smooth crossing at that point would be wonderful. I would rather not see Colony Blvd blocked off since it may lead to moving the traffic problem out to 466A and the entry to Colony.

I guess we all need to stay tuned!

[Snowbirdtobe]

The whole problem is due to a lack of proper planning by the county. The county is responsible to see that problems like this don't happen due to unrestrained or uncontrolled growth.
The county should halt all new building permits in the area where the overcrowding exists until a solution can be worked out.

[billethkid]

where is the over crowding?
btk

[ivanhoe]

Cant this 22.5 degrees across road, 18' high two carts wide. Long low grade up to and off of on opposite sides. 250k max. (eh, for the bridge)


http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17233073_bridge.png (http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17233073/bridge.png.html)

[n8xwb]

Seems unnecessary to me. Why not make that road one way from Morse Blvd to Walgreens? (eastbound). I bet that would take care of the problem.

[Barefoot]

...... the impact per household would not be great ...

Peachie, I'm unfamiliar with this issue since I don't live in the southern part of The Villages. I have a question; and I certainly don't mean it in a hostile way. I'm just trying to better understand the issues. By "the impact per household", is it your understanding that every home owner would be assessed a certain amount (or amenities would be increased) to pay for the golf cart bridge?

[Bogie Shooter]

The whole problem is due to a lack of proper planning by the county. The county is responsible to see that problems like this don't happen due to unrestrained or uncontrolled growth.
The county should halt all new building permits in the area where the overcrowding exists until a solution can be worked out.

Yea, right!

[Bogie Shooter]

Peachie, I'm unfamiliar with this issue since I don't live in the southern part of The Villages. I have a question; and I certainly don't mean it in a hostile way. I'm just trying to better understand the issues. By "the impact per household", is it your understanding that every home owner would be assessed a certain amount (or amenities would be increased) to pay for the golf cart bridge?

Neither.

[Peachie]

Peachie, I'm unfamiliar with this issue since I don't live in the southern part of The Villages. I have a question; and I certainly don't mean it in a hostile way. I'm just trying to better understand the issues. By "the impact per household", is it your understanding that every home owner would be assessed a certain amount (or amenities would be increased) to pay for the golf cart bridge?

Bare, I will include a portion of the post I was referring to, which Gracie made on the earlier discussion regarding the bridge. I do not know how this road improvement will be funded since that hasn't been decided yet.

Gracie's quote in response to angst about the cost of the bridge, should it be installed...
"Please point out if I am wrong here. AND if it went above half a million, even to a million, and it came back to land on any of us, which is doubtful, it would be shy of twenty bucks a household. We all worry too much. SOMETHING is being done, investigated, planned, discussed, worked on.............. I bet it will turn out great, just like all of the other stuff the Morses have a hand in."

[Mikeod]

This is a PWA project which means it is funded by the entire community rather than just the CDD in which it resides. It comes out of amenity funds. No special assessment and no increase in amenity fees beyond the normal annual increase.

[Barefoot]

This is a PWA project which means it is funded by the entire community rather than just the CDD in which it resides. It comes out of amenity funds. No special assessment and no increase in amenity fees beyond the normal annual increase.


Bare, I will include a portion of the post I was referring to, which Gracie made on the earlier discussion regarding the bridge. I do not know how this road improvement will be funded since that hasn't been decided yet.

Gracie's quote in response to angst about the cost of the bridge, should it be installed... "Please point out if I am wrong here. AND if it went above half a million, even to a million, and it came back to land on any of us, which is doubtful, it would be shy of twenty bucks a household. We all worry too much. SOMETHING is being done, investigated, planned, discussed, worked on.............. I bet it will turn out great, just like all of the other stuff the Morses have a hand in."

Thanks for the clarification Peachie and Mik. Hopefully there are wise people in positions of power who will soon find the best solution to this safety issue.

[Ray Roberts]

I live very close to this area, experiencing the hassle (if it is) and think that all of the hullabaloo over this subject is uncalled for. True, the county messed up planning miserably, let them take the lead and get it fixed on their dime...,,. The watch crew's effectiveness and usefulness is certainly questionable, at best.

[travelguy]

don't we have a say in what could happen? what about some sort of community forum, where our input is recognized? seems to me that this is an expensive fix, and that there could be several cost-effective solutions that do not include a bridge.

[PaPaLarry]

I live very close to this area, experiencing the hassle (if it is) and think that all of the hullabaloo over this subject is uncalled for. True, the county messed up planning miserably, let them take the lead and get it fixed on their dime...,,. The watch crew's effectiveness and usefulness is certainly questionable, at best.
Right now, they are considering cart paths (bridge) which would be The Villages responsibility I think. I feel it's necessary, and what ever they can do to relieve the problem, (somewhat) would be a great improvement.

[mulligan]

don't we have a say in what could happen? what about some sort of community forum, where our input is recognized? seems to me that this is an expensive fix, and that there could be several cost-effective solutions that do not include a bridge.

We are dealing with a county owned street, so I suppose you have a say as a taxpayer, but only if you attend the meetings.

[PaPaLarry]

We are dealing with a county owned street, so I suppose you have a say as a taxpayer, but only if you attend the meetings.
That is so true!!!!!!!!

[memason]

We are dealing with a county owned street, so I suppose you have a say as a taxpayer, but only if you attend the meetings.

This is not a county owned street. It is owned by the Villages. If it were county owned, Community Watch would not be allowed to direct traffic, as they are.

I personally, think the CW guys are doing a fantastic job at that location!

[skip0358]

This is not a county owned street. It is owned by the Villages. If it were county owned, Community Watch would not be allowed to direct traffic, as they are.

I personally, think the CW guys are doing a fantastic job at that location!

If this is true,(and I'm sure it is) then it could be closed as previously stated with no problems at all just to see how well it would work. A few concrete barriers could be in place in a matter of a few hours, if it doesn't work the could be removed just as easily. Very little cost to anyone.

[JB in TV]

It was my understanding that all the roads in TV are "public", which I would think means county owned. Our "gates" allow anyone to enter.

[Challenger]

Why build a bridge? As previous post I would think a few concrete barriers to test for two or three mo and then a more permanent barrier( could be curbing with flowers) If the test shows promiss.
Bridge will probably costs more than $400,000 and will need maintenance over the years. Seems to be the most expensive alternative.

[memason]

If this is true,(and I'm sure it is) then it could be closed as previously stated with no problems at all just to see how well it would work. A few concrete barriers could be in place in a matter of a few hours, if it doesn't work the could be removed just as easily. Very little cost to anyone.

I'm not sure why everyone is so worried over the cost of fixing the problem there. You already pay amenity fees and that is where the money is coming from. I would rather see them use the fees for something that benefits lots of folks and improves the safety of our community.

The least cost option is to do nothing... Seems to me the least disruptive is to build an alternative cart crossing, which is what they are doing. If they closed the street, the bit**ing would switch from cart driver to car drivers...

Just my opinion....and it's FREE

[PaPaLarry]

I'm not sure why everyone is so worried over the cost of fixing the problem there. You already pay amenity fees and that is where the money is coming from. I would rather see them use the fees for something that benefits lots of folks and improves the safety of our community.

The least cost option is to do nothing... Seems to me the least disruptive is to build an alternative cart crossing, which is what they are doing. If they closed the street, the bit**ing would switch from cart driver to car drivers...

Just my opinion....and it's FREE
I agree memason. Building the cart bridge, seems to be the solution. Makes sense for all to have access to the shopping plaza, restaurants etc, without having to go out to 466A, and then turn back in again. The problem seems to be for carts to cross, and or turn left to go towards plaza.

[foxmeadow]

I agree memason. Building the cart bridge, seems to be the solution. Makes sense for all to have access to the shopping plaza, restaurants etc, without having to go out to 466A, and then turn back in again. The problem seems to be for carts to cross, and or turn left to go towards plaza.

You mean that would be a major problem?? Come on, for the sake of safety, can't someone drive their autos another two hundred yards??

[PaPaLarry]

You mean that would be a major problem?? Come on, for the sake of safety, can't someone drive their autos another two hundred yards??
Seems to me, that would double the traffic coming in on 466A, and going out. I'm not a safety expert, but I like the idea of building cart bridge, to go to Bonifay, Colony Rec Center, and not having to worry about traffic. I also like coming in on Morse, and turning at Colony to go to the Plaza. I'll leave it up to the minds of the officials, but I hope it's the bridge

[Indydealmaker]

It was my understanding that all the roads in TV are "public", which I would think means county owned. Our "gates" allow anyone to enter.

There are privately owned streets and county streets. They are all "public access".

[coalminer]

A bridge is the way to go. Its about time.

[THE NEWCOMER]

Place concrete barriers across the street at the golf cart crossing! People in cars can only enter Colony Cottage Recreation Center from Morse Blvd. If the cars want to go the shopping center they have to enter The shopping center from CR 466A which ALREADY HAS TWO ENTER POINTS. Car will have to leave the shopping center by way of CR466A. Cars can enter BB&T by entering off CR466A and taking a left at the Walgreen's corner. Golf carts can enter the Recreation Center, Shopping Center or tunnel by the existing path.
My fix is cheaper than.................................. $400,000 golf cart bridge.

[pqrstar]

What happened to the idea of a stop light at the point where golf carts cross?

[Bizdoc]

What happened to the idea of a stop light at the point where golf carts cross?

Probably discarded after everyone realized that many Villagers view stop signs and stop lights as purely advisory...

[Peachie]

Place concrete barriers across the street at the golf cart crossing! People in cars can only enter Colony Cottage Recreation Center from Morse Blvd. If the cars want to go the shopping center they have to enter The shopping center from CR 466A which ALREADY HAS TWO ENTER POINTS. Car will have to leave the shopping center by way of CR466A. Cars can enter BB&T by entering off CR466A and taking a left at the Walgreen's corner. Golf carts can enter the Recreation Center, Shopping Center or tunnel by the existing path.
My fix is cheaper than.................................. $400,000 golf cart bridge.

And then listen to all the crabbing and whining when street traffic headed to Colony on Morse is backed up to the roundabout on Odell since they can't access by the former street. :ohdear:

[cquick]

I think a tunnel at this location would make more sense than an overhead bridge. Tunnels are safer and I think a tunnel would look better.

[e-flyer]

Tunnels are safer and I think a tunnel would look better.

+1 on tunnels being safer and better looking, but simple 4-way stop signs would work and cost almost nothing compared to the other options. Just have the local police :police: park a car there for a few days handing out tickets to those that don't follow the rules, and folks will start paying attention. :police:

[Bogie Shooter]

What makes tunnels safer than bridges?

[e-flyer]

What makes tunnels safer than bridges?

Perhaps not inherently safer, but lets hope they make the bridge wider than the one going over 441/27. In my opinion, a tunnel would be less of an eye sore. I still stand behind placing a 4-way stop sign and giving that a try before spending mega bucks on a bridge or tunnel.

[CFrance]

+1 on tunnels being safer and better looking, but simple 4-way stop signs would work and cost almost nothing compared to the other options. Just have the local police :police: park a car there for a few days handing out tickets to those that don't follow the rules, and folks will start paying attention. :police:

:agree:

[coalminer]

A 4 way stop wont resolve the problem. Whats wrong with spending the money to do it right? Bridge or tunnel they will both work.

[HMLRHT1]

As far as stop signs go it would be a mess at this location. People being too cautious and always waiting until the other parties go or worse that no one stops at the stop signs. Besides how many carts do u actually see come to a stop at the stop sign. Those who r turning right or turning left get mixed up. Plus then u have the Good Samaritans in the cars who wave everyone through and it just becomes a cluster &!@$. So a tunnel, even though more expensive but less obtrusive to the surrounding area is the best thing.

[CFrance]

As far as stop signs go it would be a mess at this location. People being too cautious and always waiting until the other parties go or worse that no one stops at the stop signs. Besides how many carts do u actually see come to a stop at the stop sign. Those who r turning right or turning left get mixed up. Plus then u have the Good Samaritans in the cars who wave everyone through and it just becomes a cluster &!@$. So a tunnel, even though more expensive but less obtrusive to the surrounding area is the best thing.

Ah. Now I get it. that makes total sense.

[CFrance]

The Developer (wisely, IMO) has said he will not help pay for a bridge over Colony. He thinks a traffic signal or roundabout would do the trick and cost around $200,000, and he would kick in $100,000.

I never thought of a roundabout. If the roundabout is only one lane wide, this would be a very good idea.

See the article in the **************.

[lightworker888]

How does a roundabout work with golf carts? Seems that would be more congestion or confusion. A tunnel would make sense and be safer I would think, and besides, we are used to negotiating them!

LW888

[e-flyer]

A 4 way stop wont resolve the problem. Whats wrong with spending the money to do it right? Bridge or tunnel they will both work.

smiley: Please, put 4-way stop signs in and just give it a try for a day, a week, a month. It couldn't cost much and ……just maybe it would work.

[GPGuar]

Why can't we just try some stop signs first. It's got to be the least expensive way out and if it don't work then we can move on to something else.

[jcgolfs]

I also would like to see a 4 way stop on a trial base. Not as much traffic as Colony, the 4 way stop at Mulberry Shopping Center seems to be working well. Let's give it a inexpensive trial.

[CFrance]

There is the issue of people not knowing who's next at a four-way, and hesitating, or waving others on out of turn, etc. etc. I doubt they would go the expense of erecting a four-way on a trial basis. It would probably have to be up for a year or more.

I think the Developer probably has a good handle on what would work and what wouldn't. I like the roundabout idea. If it's only a one-lane roundabout, nobody can cut anybody off inside the roundabout and traffic would keep moving. And since Colony is only one lane wide each way, it makes sense that the roundabout would only be one lane.

[BobnBev]

An accident in a one lane roundabout would bring traffic
to a standstill.

[CFrance]

An accident in a one lane roundabout would bring traffic
to a standstill.

So would an accident in the middle of a four-way stop sign intersection.

[justjim]

The Developer created the problem (poor planning/design) let him fix it. Sometimes we need to "tell it like it is"----my Dad use to say that.

[JBarracks]

As this has been suggested many times, I'm sure that blocking Colony Blvd. at Morse has been discussed with those that make these kinds of decisions, but, I've yet to hear the reasoning as to why this is not the best solution. Yes, I'm sure that there are good reasons for not blocking the intersection. Just curious.

[CFrance]

As this has been suggested many times, I'm sure that blocking Colony Blvd. at Morse has been discussed with those that make these kinds of decisions, but, I've yet to hear the reasoning as to why this is not the best solution. Yes, I'm sure that there are good reasons for not blocking the intersection. Just curious.

Why restrict traffic when you can regulate it and keep it open for all?

[cabo35]

A bridge or tunnel would provide the safest solution to the traffic flow problem. They both come with extraordinary cost, maintenance and design issues (engineers, feel free to elaborate on utility relocation, costly and complicated multiple turning movement pattern designs and construction, height clearance issues for cars and trucks and long term maintenance specifics). Remember, the bridge/ tunnel options resolve north/south, east/west flow. What effect would it have on turning patterns with cars coming off the path onto the roadway or those accessing the bridge/tunnel from the roadway? Cloverleafs? At buildout, the flow will be greater than it is today.

The four way stop solution is clearly the cheapest but given the traffic volumes at peak hours, it would cause more problems than it solves. When the area is fully developed, I doubt the four way stop will resolve the problem and will likely exacerbate it. Just a humble opinion.

A traffic control signal with solar panels to supplement power supply and reduce recurring maintenance costs seems to be a fiscally responsible approach to the problem. The question I have is legal. Does Florida law permit traffic control devices where roadways and cart paths force cars and carts to commingle. It's mute with street legals but most Villages golf carts are not street legal. Enter the legal eagles please.

Of course there may be government regulations found in codes such as the Manual on Traffic Devices that may or may not permit the installation of devices to solve the problem. Is it a public road or private property? If it is a public road, there are copious state and federal codes and warrants that must be complied with. If they are private, local police cannot enforce red light or stop sign violations. That would seem to make any traffic control device, light or stop sign superfluous.

It is not my intention to cloud the issue…..just to point out the complexity of the realities that need to be considered for an informed solution.

[CFrance]

A bridge or tunnel would provide the safest solution to the traffic flow problem. They both come with extraordinary cost, maintenance and design issues (engineers, feel free to elaborate on utility relocation, costly and complicated multiple turning movement pattern designs and construction, height clearance issues for cars and trucks and long term maintenance specifics). Remember, the bridge/ tunnel options resolve north/south, east/west flow. What effect would it have on turning patterns with cars coming off the path onto the roadway or those accessing the bridge/tunnel from the roadway? Cloverleafs? At buildout, the flow will be greater than it is today.

The four way stop solution is clearly the cheapest but given the traffic volumes at peak hours, it would cause more problems than it solves. When the area is fully developed, I doubt the four way stop will resolve the problem and will likely exacerbate it. Just a humble opinion.

A traffic control signal with solar panels to supplement power supply and reduce recurring maintenance costs seems to be a fiscally responsible approach to the problem. The question I have is legal. Does Florida law permit traffic control devices where roadways and cart paths force cars and carts to commingle. It's mute with street legals but most Villages golf carts are not street legal. Enter the legal eagles please.

Of course there may be government regulations found in codes such as the Manual on Traffic Devices that may or may not permit the installation of devices to solve the problem. Is it a public road or private property? If it is a public road, there are copious state and federal codes and warrants that must be complied with. If they are private, local police cannot enforce red light or stop sign violations. That would seem to make any traffic control device, light or stop sign superfluous.

It is not my intention to cloud the issue…..just to point out the complexity of the realities that need to be considered for an informed solution.

There are some traffic signals in TV where carts have to come out of the diamond lane and commingle with traffic to go through the intersection. One such example is at St. Charles and Bailey Trail. Those are not privately owned streets, so perhaps that answers the legality question.

[BobnBev]

There are some traffic signals in TV where carts have to come out of the diamond lane and commingle with traffic to go through the intersection. One such example is at St. Charles and Bailey Trail. Those are not privately owned streets, so perhaps that answers the legality question.

You can hire a lot of Deputy's for $400,000.

[AriaGrandparents2013]

I have responded several times with posts advocating a tunnel solution. Tunneling beneath Colony Blvd. to accommodate golf cart traffic can be accomplished by extending the current tunnel grade beneath Route 466A northerly to the Colony Blvd. location. The vertical clearance required to pass a golf cart is considerably less (10') than if you were bridging over Colony Blvd (16' for vehicles plus depth of bridge would result in a total grade to grade difference of probably 25')......the approach roadways for a tunnel would be less disruptive to adjacent areas.

Most importantly tunnels, as is the case at numerous Village crossing is a proven solution to alleviate traffic conflicts at intersection of heavily traveled roadways and golf cart paths. During construction......it'll be a "temporary inconvenience for a permanent solution". Lastly with continued home construction and expansion of The Villages south of Route 466A vehicle usage of this area will only increase significantly.

[CFrance]

You can hire a lot of Deputy's for $400,000.

I don't understand your reply quoting my post. I never advocated spending $400,000 to fix the problem. A roundly is $200,000, as is a traffic signal. I don't advocate spending a. Mil on a bridge. Either stop signs or the developer,s idea. However, I think his ideas would work better and still be cheaper than a tunnel. No merging required.

[e-flyer]

I rate them in this order by cost:
1. Block off car traffic at Colony Rec. Center.
2. 4-way stop signs. I don't understand why a 4-way stop sign won't work. If folks don't understand how to navigate a 4-way stop sign, their Fl. license should be revoked. It's one of the basics taught when you first learned to drive.
3. A 4-way traffic light.
4. Continue to pay to have a person direct traffic during peak hours.
5. A tunnel or bridge at last resort, with these two methods you would still have to merge golf carts when they wanted turn to go to Colony Plaza.

[lightworker888]

I still don't see how a roundabout would work in this configuration when you have the golf cart paths and the roadway intersecting. There is no merging safely or easily into the roundabout at that crossing as I see it. If there is one lane, then are the carts and cars behind each other? Maybe it could work if there was an adjacent cart lane and the one car lane. Perhaps that is what you were thinking of. Just pondering........

LW 888

[Challenger]

I rate them in this order by cost:
1. Block off car traffic at Colony Rec. Center.
2. 4-way stop signs. I don't understand why a 4-way stop sign won't work. If folks don't understand how to navigate a 4-way stop sign, their Fl. license should be revoked. It's one of the basics taught when you first learned to drive.
3. A 4-way traffic light.
4. Continue to pay to have a person direct traffic during peak hours.
5. A tunnel or bridge at last resort, with these two methods you would still have to merge golf carts when they wanted turn to go to Colony Plaza.

Sounds about right to me
There is no way that a bridge will cost only $400,000. and tunnel will be equally or more expensive over time. Costs for maintenance and damage caused to structures by careless drivers, vandalism, etc .Closings for who knows what from time to time. These are not good options.

Quite often the most simple remedy for a situation is the best. Of course, architects and engineers want to build. If you want to get down to earth advice on the eventual outcome of a project, talk to a public works director who has to keep the thing open and running , year after year.And do it on budget.

IMHO , a nice flower bed, barrier at Colony Rec will do fine.

[Whatever]

The best suggestion I have seen, was to extend the existing golf cart path to the Citizens Bank on both sides of the road. Then, put a four way stop at the corner of Colony and Morse Blvd. so as to allow the flow of traffic (a la Old Camp Rd. and Canal, next to Too Jays.) We are talking about concrete, black top, and two additional stop signs. Cost, a lot less.

[downeaster]

Item in Villages News.com states
"Developer won’t help pay for Colony Blvd. golf cart bridge". It also mentions alternative solutions he would support financially.

The article is worth reading. I would link it but the link doesn't work so I suggest typing it in.

[PaPaLarry]

How about a fund raiser for the bridge????? Or, how about every household donate $10.00? Then we all get our moneys worth. Oh well!! I tried.

[CFrance]

I still don't see how a roundabout would work in this configuration when you have the golf cart paths and the roadway intersecting. There is no merging safely or easily into the roundabout at that crossing as I see it. If there is one lane, then are the carts and cars behind each other? Maybe it could work if there was an adjacent cart lane and the one car lane. Perhaps that is what you were thinking of. Just pondering........

LW 888

The carts and the cars would use the roundabout together. Carts would be coming off the cart paths into the roundabout, and cars would be coming off Colony into the roundabout. It would work just like any other roundabout in TV, except it's a smaller (private?) road, so carts can be on the road and in the roundabout legally. If you drive on Colony, you are already sharing that road with carts, just like roads in neighborhoods that don't have diamond lanes. So no need for a different lane for carts.

Basically, the roundabout would work like a four-way stop sign except that it keeps traffic moving faster and in all one direction.

It's not the cheapest solution, but cheaper than a bridge or tunnel. I would also be in favor of a traffic signal if its timing were right so as not to back traffic up.

[Suzi]

It is true I am not intimately familiar with all the facts and figures since I have not lived here very long, but I have made some observations: the area of Colony is very busy most of the time. Being a cart driver or car driver can be very nerve wracking when driving the area. However, I think the area is used by default by many people who live just north of 466A. Many of those people would shop or do business at the new Pinellas shopping area, but because there is NO easy way to cross 466A except near Colony, people use colony because it ends up being closer. If there was a tunnel or bridge under or over 466A near BuenaVista, I believe a great deal of people would choose to use the establishments at Pinellas and that would considerably reduce the traffic problem at colony

[LndLocked]

Question:

Who was it that was responsible for; engineering, designing and building this problem?

[Golfingnut]

It is true I am not intimately familiar with all the facts and figures since I have not lived here very long, but I have made some observations: the area of Colony is very busy most of the time. Being a cart driver or car driver can be very nerve wracking when driving the area. However, I think the area is used by default by many people who live just north of 466A. Many of those people would shop or do business at the new Pinellas shopping area, but because there is NO easy way to cross 466A except near Colony, people use colony because it ends up being closer. If there was a tunnel or bridge under or over 466A near BuenaVista, I believe a great deal of people would choose to use the establishments at Pinellas and that would considerably reduce the traffic problem at colony

Best idea to date.

[obxgal]

It is true I am not intimately familiar with all the facts and figures since I have not lived here very long, but I have made some observations: the area of Colony is very busy most of the time. Being a cart driver or car driver can be very nerve wracking when driving the area. However, I think the area is used by default by many people who live just north of 466A. Many of those people would shop or do business at the new Pinellas shopping area, but because there is NO easy way to cross 466A except near Colony, people use colony because it ends up being closer. If there was a tunnel or bridge under or over 466A near BuenaVista, I believe a great deal of people would choose to use the establishments at Pinellas and that would considerably reduce the traffic problem at colony

There is a tunnel that goes under 466A at Buena Vista. It's been there since they widened 466A from 2 lanes to 4. The golf cart lane goes down past Turtle Mound golf course, then under 466A.

[Suzi]

There is a tunnel that goes under 466A at Buena Vista. It's been there since they widened 466A from 2 lanes to 4. The golf cart lane goes down past Turtle Mound golf course, then under 466A.

Yes, that is true. But do you realize how far south of BuenaVista that tunnel is? Its almost to the new building for the memory center. If you have gone that far south, it makes more sense to continue on to Colony. If you wanted to go to Pinellas Plaza, you would have to go thru the tunnel and cross 466A and backtrack all the way back to BuenaVista and then on to the new Pinellas shopping center. And then repeat the same thing on the return home.
There is absolutely NO WAY to cross under or over 466A very near or north of BuenaVista. I believe it is another reason that Brownwood is not utilized more because it is so difficult to get to by golf cart. I'm new around here, but I believe more people would use the new Sweetbay and the new stores more in the Pinellas Plaza if there was easier golf cart access across or under 466A north of BuenaVista thus relieving the heavy traffic at Colony.

[Nlnicholson]

Not a real fan of Sweetbay. So I'll just brave the traffic to get to Publix

[Ooper]

I get confused when you talk about a tunnel or crossing north or south of Buena Vista because BV runs north and south. But the tunnel under 466A is only about 30 seconds east of Buena Vista. If you can't afford a half minute, you probably should drive your car.

[Lovey2]

It is true I am not intimately familiar with all the facts and figures since I have not lived here very long, but I have made some observations: the area of Colony is very busy most of the time. Being a cart driver or car driver can be very nerve wracking when driving the area. However, I think the area is used by default by many people who live just north of 466A. Many of those people would shop or do business at the new Pinellas shopping area, but because there is NO easy way to cross 466A except near Colony, people use colony because it ends up being closer. If there was a tunnel or bridge under or over 466A near BuenaVista, I believe a great deal of people would choose to use the establishments at Pinellas and that would considerably reduce the traffic problem at colony

To the contrary, it's very easy for me to get to Pinellas shopping, closer in fact. But sometimes I CHOOSE to go to Publix, or Bealls, in which case I will be adding to the traffic. I keep hearing how the "NEW" people south of 466A should go to the new shopping. I think it's a little forward that anyone could even think to tell me where to shop. Remember, I'm dealing with the traffic also.

[PaPaLarry]

I think many people choose to go to Colony, because of their choices!!! Many people like the Publix there, or restaurants, Hair Dressers, Banks, and of course the gas station for both carts and vehicles. and or going to Colony Rec Center. I also don't think business owners in Colony, like the idea of suggesting, people to go to Pinella's Shopping Plaza, instead of Colony. I hope we come to a happy conclusion to this situation!

[Lovey2]

I think many people choose to go to Colony, because of their choices!!! Many people like the Publix there, or restaurants, Hair Dressers, Banks, and of course the gas station for both carts and vehicles. and or going to Colony Rec Center. I also don't think business owners in Colony, like the idea of suggesting, people to go to Pinella's Shopping Plaza, instead of Colony. I hope we come to a happy conclusion to this situation!

Yeah...I was actually sitting in Cal's one day and this woman was loudly complaining that all the NEW people should be shopping at Pinellas. I so wanted to apologize for not having reached retirement age as quickly as she did and tell her how ashamed I was to be a NEW person clogging up their stores...NOT.

[George Bieniaszek]

I am still trying to wrap my mind around how a bridge or tunnel would help ease traffic at that location. The main safety issue as I see it are southbound carts trying to merge into traffic by making a left turn to go into the shopping plaza. The other issue are westbound carts on Colony leaving the shopping plaza making a left turn to get under 466A.

Yes, there are southbound carts that need to cross Colony and cross 466A, or vice versa, and a bridge or tunnel would solve that issue.

Just wondering if a one-way, east-bound cart path running parallel to the north side of Colony starting at the cart crossing and ending at the shopping plaza would be a viable option.

[DonH57]

I am still trying to wrap my mind around how a bridge or tunnel would help ease traffic at that location. The main safety issue as I see it are southbound carts trying to merge into traffic by making a left turn to go into the shopping plaza. The other issue are westbound carts on Colony leaving the shopping plaza making a left turn to get under 466A.

Yes, there are southbound carts that need to cross Colony and cross 466A, or vice versa, and a bridge or tunnel would solve that issue.

Just wondering if a one-way, east-bound cart path running parallel to the north side of Colony starting at the cart crossing and ending at the shopping plaza would be a viable option.

Looking at the map I was wondering why instead of a side walk, they did'nt run a multi use path right down that strip you just mentioned on the north side of Colony blvd. Looked to me like that would have been the better option.

[CFrance]

I think many people choose to go to Colony, because of their choices!!! Many people like the Publix there, or restaurants, Hair Dressers, Banks, and of course the gas station for both carts and vehicles. and or going to Colony Rec Center. I also don't think business owners in Colony, like the idea of suggesting, people to go to Pinella's Shopping Plaza, instead of Colony. I hope we come to a happy conclusion to this situation!

Looking at the map I was wondering why instead of a side walk, they did'nt run a multi use path right down that strip you just mentioned on the north side of Colony blvd. Looked to me like that would have been the better option.

A good point and a good question. And I apologize for the b**** who made that comment in Cal's, lovey2. I don't understand why some people have such a false sense of entitlement when they reach a certain age.:sigh:

[justjim]

Looking at the map I was wondering why instead of a side walk, they did'nt run a multi use path right down that strip you just mentioned on the north side of Colony blvd. Looked to me like that would have been the better option.

Answer is mistake in planning and design. You can strive for perfection but even in TV you don't always achieve it. My observation is that there is more use of golf carts than was planned and appropriately designed for the Colony area.

Its busy now but could be even more so depending how the new Fruitland Park Village fits into the equation. Roundabout option or signal light makes sense to me. I don't see a bridge solving the problem and it's the most expensive. Developer is correct with His proposals. :gc:

[Lovey2]

A good point and a good question. And I apologize for the b**** who made that comment in Cal's, lovey2. I don't understand why some people have such a false sense of entitlement when they reach a certain age.:sigh:

Wow...thanks. You didn't need to apologize, but I thank you. I'm learning to mellow in my advancing (haha) years and most of what I think I keep "on the inside"...still, she did sorely test me that day. I can't wait to get older and more outspoken...GOD HELP US ALL THEN!! :jester:

[jet10s]

I for one think answer still is to block cars from that end of colony blvd -- bridge too rxpensive

[DonH57]

Answer is mistake in planning and design. You can strive for perfection but ev kicking ngin TV you don't always achieve it. My observation is that there is more use of golf carts than was planned and appropriately designed for the Colony area.

Its busy now but could be even more so depending how the new Fruitland Park Village fits into the equation. Roundabout option or signal light makes sense to me. I don't see a bridge solving the problem and it's the most expensive. Developer is correct with His proposals. :gc:

I agree and I didn't think about with the coming expansion around fruitland park maybe the developer's trying to work it all together. Just a thought.

[Penguin]

I for one think answer still is to block cars from that end of colony blvd -- bridge too rxpensive

Again I agree. The villages is said to be a golf cart community so I would like to see the car traffic diverted to 466a. As someone previously posted it would be less expensive and more productive to run a experiment by putting up concrete barriers to see if that would alleviate to traffic problem.

[mrdarcy]

Colony Blvd. is only 2 lanes wide. A bridge over a 2 lane road would require a tremendously steep grade going up and coming down. The Morse bridge over 441 is already dangerously steep and it spans over at least 4 lanes (maybe 6, I can't remember). The worst scenario would be to build a $1 million bridge and nobody wants to use it. I agree with Mark Morse--just install traffic signal lights. Cars and carts together abide by traffic signal lights at Lake Sumter Landing and on Rio Grande and on Del Mar. Simple and effective. The human traffic control by Community Watch is actually working pretty well at Colony now. Just automate it. A bridge? Seriously????

[Shirleevee]

Colony Blvd. is only 2 lanes wide. A bridge over a 2 lane road would require a tremendously steep grade going up and coming down. The Morse bridge over 441 is already dangerously steep and it spans over at least 4 lanes (maybe 6, I can't remember). The worst scenario would be to build a $1 million bridge and nobody wants to use it. I agree with Mark Morse--just install traffic signal lights. Cars and carts together abide by traffic signal lights at Lake Sumter Landing and on Rio Grande and on Del Mar. Simple and effective. The human traffic control by Community Watch is actually working pretty well at Colony now. Just automate it. A bridge? Seriously????



I agree!

[CFrance]

Again I agree. The villages is said to be a golf cart community so I would like to see the car traffic diverted to 466a. As someone previously posted it would be less expensive and more productive to run a experiment by putting up concrete barriers to see if that would alleviate to traffic problem.

Nowhere in the literature of TV does it say that golf carts take precedence over cars--in fact, the opposite is stated, that in all instances cars have the right of way over golf carts. There are more cars than golf carts in TV. Closing a public street off and effectively making it a golf cart path is going to cause an automobile traffic jam on 466A, not to mention a waste of gasoline and an increase in pollution.

There is a solution that will benefit all and exclude no one. I trust they will find it.

[Shimpy]

I still think the best and cheapest solution is block car traffic from that little stretch of road and put in a golf cart round-a-bout.

[janmcn]

The Project Wide Advisory Committee will be discussing this issue at 9:00am tomorrow (Monday) at Laurel Manor. Read all about the meeting at The Villages on-line news. This might be a good place to discuss all the ideas voiced on this forum.

[janmcn]

The PWAC voted 4-1 this morning (Monday) to go with a traffic signal at this intersection, abandoning their previous idea to build a bridge. The traffic light is expected to cost $250,000. The developer had stated previously he would chip in $100,000 for improvements to this intersection.

Read the details of the meeting at TheVillages on-line news.