Stopping in Traffic Circles

[Bizdoc]

On the way to the Christmas parade, encountered three Tour de France re-enacters who had decided to stop and have a pleasant conversation in the traffic circle! (no, not in the grass - in the actual paved part of the traffic circle). Not a good idea guys.

[CFrance]

I can top that. My husband encountered a driver who stopped in the traffic circle at Buena Vista and St. Charles to look at her phone--texting? answering? using the gps function? Who knew!

[Madelaine Amee]

I too, was in a traffic circle this week when an out of State car came to a dead stop in front of me. I completely understand that they had no idea where they were or what to do, but their dead stop almost killed me! Just keep moving guys, I really don't care where, just keep moving.

[billethkid]

fortunately these folks are in the minority that either do not have situation awareness and that other more numerous group that just don't care about others or rules/etc.

btk

[kittygilchrist]

Just back from Italy, where drivers of buses, cars, trucks, and a zillion scooters and motorcycles COLLABORATE to share tiny streets in cities and the crazy curves on mountains.
It is a thing of beauty, a symphony. Where there are no crosswalks or signals, which is almost everywhere in the cities, pedestrians simply step boldly into the traffic and all the vehicles stop to let those on foot cross. Drivers expect to have at least a few inches of distance between vehicles and can all parallel park in impossibly small spots.

Here in the USA, we want to be first and hog space and make everybody else drive like we want them to and be out of patience with anybody not following the rules and how dare they pause in my way and stay the hell several feet from my car. and I am first to admit I am describing myself before I saw a different culture and philosophy of how to drive.

[graciegirl]

I too, was in a traffic circle this week when an out of State car came to a dead stop in front of me. I completely understand that they had no idea where they were or what to do, but their dead stop almost killed me! Just keep moving guys, I really don't care where, just keep moving.



Happened to us yesterday. Thank goodness we could stop behind them. They stopped to let someone IN.


Be careful. ALL. The congestion and the bad driving will be rampant soon.

[jnieman]

This past week I was driving in the inner lane of the circle and standing right in front of me in the blind area were three workers who were there to plant flowers. There were no cones no warning at all and they were standing in the street chatting. I slammed on my brakes, they hopped up on the curb. Scared the crap out of me.

[jmarkohio]

A couple of years ago my wife watched someone stop in a circle and theN BACK UP!

[DaleMN]

This past week I was driving in the inner lane of the circle and standing right in front of me in the blind area were three workers who were there to plant flowers. There were no cones no warning at all and they were standing in the street chatting. I slammed on my brakes, they hopped up on the curb. Scared the crap out of me.

Figuratively speaking......:doh:

[manaboutown]

A couple of years ago my wife watched someone stop in a circle and theN BACK UP!

They must have had a death wish!

[CFrance]

Just back from Italy, where drivers of buses, cars, trucks, and a zillion scooters and motorcycles COLLABORATE to share tiny streets in cities and the crazy curves on mountains.
It is a thing of beauty, a symphony. Where there are no crosswalks or signals, which is almost everywhere in the cities, pedestrians simply step boldly into the traffic and all the vehicles stop to let those on foot cross. Drivers expect to have at least a few inches of distance between vehicles and can all parallel park in impossibly small spots.

Here in the USA, we want to be first and hog space and make everybody else drive like we want them to and be out of patience with anybody not following the rules and how dare they pause in my way and stay the hell several feet from my car. and I am first to admit I am describing myself before I saw a different culture and philosophy of how to drive.

I agree with you to some extent, but this traffic circle thing is a real safety issue. And we in the States have a different manner of driving than those in other countries--not right or wrong, in my opinion, just differrent.

It's a different mindset in each country. For instance, in his book The Titanic Awards, about the world's worst traffic mishaps, Doug Lansky says about driving in Naples, Italy:

"When I rented a car in Napoli, the manager at the Hertz office told me 'Driving here is like a video game. You just have to relax, stop thinking, and feel it in your stomach' The traffic signals were especially tricky as the red, yellow and green colored lights were obeyed no more than Christmas decorations. Red lights were run as a matter of decent driving."

Yet we found driving in Italy to be fairly easy, but we were not driving in the big cities. Driving in Paris was a nightmare. Their traffic circles--each has a different set of rules, mostly made up by the natives. There are driving schools geared teaching you how to navigate each circle.

[rubicon]

Just back from Italy, where drivers of buses, cars, trucks, and a zillion scooters and motorcycles COLLABORATE to share tiny streets in cities and the crazy curves on mountains.
It is a thing of beauty, a symphony. Where there are no crosswalks or signals, which is almost everywhere in the cities, pedestrians simply step boldly into the traffic and all the vehicles stop to let those on foot cross. Drivers expect to have at least a few inches of distance between vehicles and can all parallel park in impossibly small spots.

Here in the USA, we want to be first and hog space and make everybody else drive like we want them to and be out of patience with anybody not following the rules and how dare they pause in my way and stay the hell several feet from my car. and I am first to admit I am describing myself before I saw a different culture and philosophy of how to drive.

Kittygillchrist" You didn't have to go to Italy to see that display of beauty just to NYC:D

[RedChariot]

Yesterday we were driving on Pinellas towards Brownwood and a car from Maine was driving in the golf cart lane. Did he think this was the shoulder of the road? Finally he made a right turn. How do you explain that with the obvious painted signs on the pavement of the golf cart lane?

[clod]

Stopping inappropriately is not peculiar to round- abouts. Stopping anyplace where there is no stop sign (gate crossing, tunnel) is not expected and is dangerous. Also, placing one wheel on the grass does not constitute pulling off of the road.
:police:

[jnieman]

Yesterday we were driving on Pinellas towards Brownwood and a car from Maine was driving in the golf cart lane. Did he think this was the shoulder of the road? Finally he made a right turn. How do you explain that with the obvious painted signs on the pavement of the golf cart lane?

Possibly he was making sure that no golf cart passed him on the right when he was making his right turn. I've seen this done before.

[Serenoa]

I too, was in a traffic circle this week when an out of State car came to a dead stop in front of me. I completely understand that they had no idea where they were or what to do, but their dead stop almost killed me! Just keep moving guys, I really don't care where, just keep moving.


If another car, bicycle rider or landscape laborer is stopped, parked or just standing in a roundabout and this almost causes you to have an accident (and be killed??), then I must say you were most likely driving TOO FAST, especially inside a roundabout.

TV drivers: drive defensive, slow down (speed kills), anticipate dangerous situations, always watch out for the other guy, and be safe!

[kittygilchrist]

Stopping inappropriately is not peculiar to round- abouts. Stopping anyplace where there is no stop sign (gate crossing, tunnel) is not expected and is dangerous. Also, placing one wheel on the grass does not constitute pulling off of the road.
:police:

LOL, now that is true. my recent favorite bad vehicle stop was in the right lane of US Highway 301, wildwood, so a person older than me using a walker could toddle to the car from a shop (with an empty parking lot beside it) and load up.

[BobnBev]

If another car, bicycle rider or landscape laborer is stopped, parked or just standing in a roundabout and this almost causes you to have an accident (and be killed??), then I must say you were most likely driving TOO FAST, especially inside a roundabout.

TV drivers: drive defensive, slow down (speed kills), anticipate dangerous situations, always watch out for the other guy, and be safe!

:agree: 110% :agree:

[CFrance]

Stopping inappropriately is not peculiar to round- abouts. Stopping anyplace where there is no stop sign (gate crossing, tunnel) is not expected and is dangerous. Also, placing one wheel on the grass does not constitute pulling off of the road.
:police:

Possibly he was making sure that no golf cart passed him on the right when he was making his right turn. I've seen this done before.

There is at least one poster on this forum who thinks this is the only proper way for a car to make a right-hand turn: merge into the diamond lane at the side, then make your right turn. I don't agree that cars should ever travel in that lane and don't know where the poster got this rule, or theory.

His reasoning is you won't run down a golf cart that's going straight if you're in the diamond lane when you make your turn. My feeling is a car should never be in the diamond lane, and you should be stopped and looking to make sure no golf cart is coming before turning.

But I could be wrong.

[memason]

There is at least one poster on this forum who thinks this is the only proper way for a car to make a right-hand turn: merge into the diamond lane at the side, then make your right turn. I don't agree that cars should ever travel in that lane and don't know where the poster got this rule, or theory.

His reasoning is you won't run down a golf cart that's going straight if you're in the diamond lane when you make your turn. My feeling is a car should never be in the diamond lane, and you should be stopped and looking to make sure no golf cart is coming before turning.

But I could be wrong.

Well, you must be talking me.... I believe it's much safer for a car to merge into the cart/bicycle lane to make a right turn. No different than a cart merging into the traffic lane to make a left turn. At least, this way, the cart knows your intentions. It also helps to use the turn signal once in a while.

[Carl in Tampa]

This past week I was driving in the inner lane of the circle and standing right in front of me in the blind area were three workers who were there to plant flowers. There were no cones no warning at all and they were standing in the street chatting. I slammed on my brakes, they hopped up on the curb. Scared the crap out of me.

It was probably somewhat disconcerting to the workers too.

:22yikes::MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[kittygilchrist]

Well, you must be talking me.... I believe it's much safer for a car to merge into the cart/bicycle lane to make a right turn. No different than a cart merging into the traffic lane to make a left turn. At least, this way, the cart knows your intentions. It also helps to use the turn signal once in a while.

I agree with you and with Cyndy. But I'm not going to get in the golf cart lane because if there were an accident, and I was in a golf cart lane, I would get blamed for it all and ticketed for improper lane change.

[CFrance]

Well, you must be talking me.... I believe it's much safer for a car to merge into the cart/bicycle lane to make a right turn. No different than a cart merging into the traffic lane to make a left turn. At least, this way, the cart knows your intentions. It also helps to use the turn signal once in a while.

No, it wasn't you, memason. I can't remember who it was, but his avatar picture is different. I understand your point; I just don't know if it's legal for a car to be driving in the diamond lane.

Perhaps CarlinTampa can weigh in.

[kittygilchrist]

Carl is 195 pounds. that's not a fair fight.

[Indydealmaker]

Yesterday we were driving on Pinellas towards Brownwood and a car from Maine was driving in the golf cart lane. Did he think this was the shoulder of the road? Finally he made a right turn. How do you explain that with the obvious painted signs on the pavement of the golf cart lane?

At least he got part of it right. When you make a right turn you should be in the golf cart path just like merging into a regular outside land. That keeps you from having a golf cart in your blind spot.

[rubicon]

The diamond lanes are marked for golf cart use. If someone is moving from a right hand lane to the diamond lane to make a right turn he/she is impeding the flow of golf cart traffic going forward. If a driver pulls to the golf art lane he/she may have a golf cart /driver in his/her blind spot cutting them off... To my way of thinking its the reverse of a California turn or where a driver cuts short a left turn crossing over into on coming lane. In both situations the driver is placing a car/cart driver in peril.

Pulling to the complete right before turning may seem like it is safer but it is an unsound practice. As to the legality well I leave that to the police....but if a driver hits a golf cart while making this maneuver whom to you believe is in the right/wrong?

[Indydealmaker]

The diamond lanes are marked for golf cart use. If someone is moving from a right hand lane to the diamond lane to make a right turn he/she is impeding the flow of golf cart traffic going forward. If a driver pulls to the golf art lane he/she may have a golf cart /driver in his/her blind spot cutting them off... To my way of thinking its the reverse of a California turn or where a driver cuts short a left turn crossing over into on coming lane. In both situations the driver is placing a car/cart driver in peril.

Pulling to the complete right before turning may seem like it is safer but it is an unsound practice. As to the legality well I leave that to the police....but if a driver hits a golf cart while making this maneuver whom to you believe is in the right/wrong?

What is safer, being sure you cannot have a golf cart in your blind spot by merging into that lane and blocking any cart that could come up on you; or just turn across the golf cart lane at the intersection. Also, if you wait to turn, you could be blocking cars behind you that are confused because you have your right turn signal on but are just sitting in your lane. All I know is when a sheriff deputy explained that to me, it made sense.

[TexaninVA]

On the way to the Christmas parade, encountered three Tour de France re-enacters who had decided to stop and have a pleasant conversation in the traffic circle! (no, not in the grass - in the actual paved part of the traffic circle). Not a good idea guys.

Sounds like these three guys are competing for a Darwin award?

[njbchbum]

The diamond lanes are marked for golf cart use. If someone is moving from a right hand lane to the diamond lane to make a right turn he/she is impeding the flow of golf cart traffic going forward. If a driver pulls to the golf art lane he/she may have a golf cart /driver in his/her blind spot cutting them off... To my way of thinking its the reverse of a California turn or where a driver cuts short a left turn crossing over into on coming lane. In both situations the driver is placing a car/cart driver in peril.

Pulling to the complete right before turning may seem like it is safer but it is an unsound practice. As to the legality well I leave that to the police....but if a driver hits a golf cart while making this maneuver whom to you believe is in the right/wrong?

If a golf cart hits the vehicle making the turn who would be the party at fault?

The 'golf cart rules of the road and safety tips' brochure on the district gov site indicates:
"7. Yield to automobiles"

If such is so, is a car then to make its right turn from its lane believing that any golf cart in the diamond lane is obligated to yield?

Does anyone believe that golf cart drivers are aware of that fact #7; or would abide by it? I've seen many a golf cart [and car, too] just do a rolling stop rather than a full stop at stop signs!

[DonH57]

It would seem to me if a car going northbound on Morse blvd which has a cart lane turned right directly into the cart proceding straight the car would be at fault for making an illegal turn as if there were two lanes of traffic. Golf carts don't turn left from the cart lanes. Golf carts do yield to automobiles when crossing or turning.

[kittygilchrist]

Bike Lanes at Intersections

closest thing I can find to a statute on right turn across golf lanes...
From Florida Driver's Handbook on sharing road w/bicyclists: I think it means that if there is not a right turn lane, it's ok to enter the bicycle lane. (I was wrong. again...sigh..)

"Slow down and look for bicyclists. Signal your turn prior to crossing through the bike lane at the dashed striping. Yield to any bicyclist. Complete the turn from the designated right turn lane. If there is no right turn lane, after first checking to make sure that no bicyclists are present, you may enter the bike lane at the intersection or driveway."

[graciegirl]

Bike Lanes at Intersections

closest thing I can find to a statute on right turn across golf lanes...
From Florida Driver's Handbook on sharing road w/bicyclists: I think it means that if there is not a right turn lane, it's ok to enter the bicycle lane. (I was wrong. again...sigh..)

"Slow down and look for bicyclists. Signal your turn prior to crossing through the bike lane at the dashed striping. Yield to any bicyclist. Complete the turn from the designated right turn lane. If there is no right turn lane, after first checking to make sure that no bicyclists are present, you may enter the bike lane at the intersection or driveway."




THANK YOU. When going to Chula Vista from my house this often worries me when turning right off Morse.


As the planners of this place moved south they solved some of these issues by having golf cart paths separate from bigger roads.

[CFrance]

Bike Lanes at Intersections

closest thing I can find to a statute on right turn across golf lanes...
From Florida Driver's Handbook on sharing road w/bicyclists: I think it means that if there is not a right turn lane, it's ok to enter the bicycle lane. (I was wrong. again...sigh..)

"Slow down and look for bicyclists. Signal your turn prior to crossing through the bike lane at the dashed striping. Yield to any bicyclist. Complete the turn from the designated right turn lane. If there is no right turn lane, after first checking to make sure that no bicyclists are present, you may enter the bike lane at the intersection or driveway."

Kitty, I interpret that as not merging into the bicycle lane prior to making the turn. It says "Signal your turn prior to crossing through the bike lane. Completing the turn from the designated right turn lane, to me, means staying on the road and crossing through the bike land when you turn, not merging into it to make the turn. the bike lane i not "the designated right turn land."

[kittygilchrist]

CF, why I said I THINK it means....it does say "enter the bike lane"...instead of "cross"...

[CFrance]

CF, why I said I THINK it means....it does say "enter the bike lane"...instead of "cross"...

I see that. I see something else somewhere too that mentions going to the extreme right of the roadway to make a right-hand turn, and that means entering the diamond lane. They went on to say that many diamond lanes are not properly marked. The lane markings should end before the intersection, and everyone should be on extreme right to turn.

I found that in the bicycle laws section for Fl but assume it means for cars as well. Especially here, where the diamond lane is properly marked.