minimum income

[Pete]

What would you consider a MINIMUM retirement income to live compfortably in TV? consider mortgage, insurance, taxes, garbage, water, electric, fees, yardwork, housecleaner, every otherstuff costs.

[golfnut]

retirement and mortgage don't mix from my perspective. excluding mortgage I'd say $4,000/month.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

The $1,000 figure doesn't pertain to everyday living expenses - just the cost of maintaining your property. I do not think that figure included gasoline, insurance, food, etc.

HB

[golfnut]

My figure was meant to include everything, people that have been retired should be able to give insight as to whether it is close.

[villager99]

with no mortgage and a one person household i live comfortably on 2-3 thousand a month. using extra income for travel and/or family vacations.
lots of everyday outdoor activities like swimming, social clubs, events on the squares etc are free.

[nanci2539]

I have to say, $4000 a month sounds awful high to me. We live in IL now and the cost of living in is high and where we pay a lot more than $4000 a month, I was under the impression the cost of living a nice life style in TV was less than $2000 a month and that included everything (minus mortgage). I would be interested to hear from others who live there and have an average lifestyle enjoying dinner out. movies, etc. I realize it's hard to ball park because everyone lives differently but what about fixed expenses; if under $1000, am I understanding that it will cost $3000 plus to enjoy a decent recreational lifestyle???

[villager99]

nothing i do or purchase in tv costs as much as i paid in portland, maine or cambridge, mass.

[chuckinca]

We talking net or gross income? The question pertained to Gross Income including mortgage.

I think the $4000 gross plus mortgage might be reasonable for two people.

[ripwho]

My 'current' business plan (which I hope to execute in late 2008/ early 2009) calls for about $3200 per month.. it is loaded with golf (3-4 x per week on the Championship courses plus a couple bowling leagues!)... It doesnt include a mortgage since I will be lucky enough to pay cash for a house... the budget includes monies for savings in anticipation of traveling and vacationing....plus it's just me... because I'm only 55 right now, Medical is a wild card!

[chuckinca]

Median household income in The Villages in 2005 was $44,800


http://www.city-data.com/city/The-Villages-Florida.html

[diskman]

Pete I believe the answers you were given were quick guesses by the people who gave them.
So I would like to put my 2 cents worth in. First of all as I have stated in TOTV on a prior occasion, Mortgage and retirement do not mix. Having said that I believe that with out a mortgage and depending on your cost of a medical supplement and maybe a policy to cover long term care plus TV monthly expenses your looking at about $2,000 to $2,500. Of course I am not yet retired and not a TV owner yet, so it is just my estimate.It would all depend on the life style you plan to have. I am not presently a golfer I plan to probably learn but, will not become a fanatic. Maybe a couple of times a month if I like it.
Larry & Bev

[F16 1UB]

Pete I believe the answers you were given were quick guesses by the people who gave them.
So I would like to put my 2 cents worth in. First of all as I have stated in TOTV on a prior occasion, Mortgage and retirement do not mix. Having said that I believe that with out a mortgage and depending on your cost of a medical supplement and maybe a policy to cover long term care plus TV monthly expenses your looking at about $2,000 to $2,500. Of course I am not yet retired and not a TV owner yet, so it is just my estimate.It would all depend on the life style you plan to have. I am not presently a golfer I plan to probably learn but, will not become a fanatic. Maybe a couple of times a month if I like it.
Larry & Bev


Yeah I think you're in the ball park diskman. Going by what our monthly expenses are now we'll be farther ahead in TV. My only vice is fishing and my wife said she'll continue to work. :bigthumbsup: There is a God!

Steve

[ZMAN]

What would the estimated cost for TV housing be if you excluded food, mortgage, recreation & medical? :dontknow:

[RCT]

In response to diskman saying retirement and mortgage don't mix, that entirely depends on your financial situation. We are fortunate enough to have money with an investment firm, that, this year, will make about 14 percent, and has been that or more for the last ten years. It makes no financial sense for me to pay cash for house with a part of that, when we can use someone else's money, at 6 percent, and leave the 250,000 or so in my accounts, to return 14 or up, clearing at least 8 percent. i'd rather leave my money with the amazing people of Fisher investments, than subject it to the ups and downs of hoping to build more equity in housing market.

[pili]

We are 1 1/2 year away from retiring and moving but I was figuring around $4,000/month. That figures sounds reasonable for a fair standard of living. I figure it would be more yearly depending on our travels. We are still figuring out what makes more sense financially. To pay cash or take small mortgage so we'll have some deductions at end of year. We'll discuss with our accountant. I think anywhere from $3,000-4,000 is reasonable based on figures I have seen.

Pili

[nanci2539]

I tend to agree with Muscle. Our financial person more or less said the same thing. Having a small mortgage (if you can afford it of course) gives you more cash and lets face it, for those of us with kids or relatives, they get the house when we pass on anyway. They can pay off the mortgage with the sale of the house.

Having more money in your investments makes sense - you can withdraw from your investments - how do you do that with a mortgage free home. It only works if you sell it and for us, we hope, TV is going to be our last home.

[chuckinca]

Historically, the stock market AVERAGES about 10% increase per year and inflation AVERAGES 3% per year so you net out on AVERAGE 7% per year. An AVERAGE of 1% over the mortgage cost.

I don't want to be stuck on a down turn of the market or up turn of inflation trying to make monthly mortgage payments from the proceeds of the stock market.

I'm paying off the mortgage from my investments when I retire and eliminate the $1,000 or so monthly expense and the worry of what might happen to the market.

If we get in a major cash crunch later, we can think about opening a new mortgage.

[RCT]

so, if you find yourself in a cash crunch, then THAT is the time you want to start making monthly payments?!?!?! That doesn't make sense to me, what am I missing here?!?!?!

[SteveFromNY]

so, if you find yourself in a cash crunch, then THAT is the time you want to start making monthly payments?!?!?! That doesn't make sense to me, what am I missing here?!?!?!


I think what it means is this:
You need $20,000 cash, but don't have it, but have a house with a lot of equity. A 30-yr fixed at around 6% costs around $6 per thousand. So you could have $20,000 in cash and only have to pay around $120 per month. Of course these are rough numbers, but I think that's the point being made.

[RCT]

Exactly, steve, understood, but, you know that of that 120 a month, how much is paying off the actual loan, not much, is mostly going to the interest, wouldn't it be? keeping money in diversified investments, should easily pay your mortgage and much more, in my knowledge. just seems to me you want your money working for you, and not all tied up in yopur house. i understand real estate values rise and all, but with a spred out investment portfolio, you should exceed the real estate market in long run

[chuckinca]

Paying off the mortgage is having the money work for you. You can save the 6% mortgage interest or you can hope to make 7% in the market.

There isn't a market broker anywhere who will tell you to take your money out of the market.

Common investment stratagy is to be financially conservative in your retirement years; conservative investors go into the bond market and make less than mortgage interest.

(and Stevefrom NY correctly answered the later mortgage issue - you use the mortgage funds to alleviate the cash crunch)

[SteveFromNY]

Exactly, steve, understood, but, you know that of that 120 a month, how much is paying off the actual loan, not much, is mostly going to the interest, wouldn't it be? keeping money in diversified investments, should easily pay your mortgage and much more, in my knowledge. just seems to me you want your money working for you, and not all tied up in yopur house. i understand real estate values rise and all, but with a spred out investment portfolio, you should exceed the real estate market in long run


I'd personally rather keep the $20K in the "bank" and use the home equity to fund my cash crunch, whatever it is (as long as I can afford the $120/mo). It's probably more a personal preference than anything else, but I just feel the home equity is an untapped resource, and my cash is my cash and I'd like to leave it whole. :dontknow:

[larrydube]

If you need money after you retire and you have your home all paid for you could always take out a reverse mortgage.

[JohnN]

I think there are valid pro and con points for having or not having a mortgage. If you want the peace of mind of minimal cash outflow, then go mortgage free. If you have the financial discipline to get a higher return than your mortgage costs, go for the mortage. The key point being don't overspend and have a mortgage - and not have enough cash flow.

[coach]

As a four year Villager I think the 3000-3500 per month without a mortgage is about right to be able to do just about anything you want any time you want. I think the area that you can go over budget the fastest is dining out. You will have sooooo many opportunities to eat out with friends, neighbors, golf buddies, etc. that it can quickly add up to a big monthly expense. We eat out about twice a week but if we accepted all invitations it would be 8-10 times.

[RCT]

Good points all, I especially like the "peace of mind" thing, whatever you do, if it gives you that peace of mind, you can't put a price on that, now can we?

[Pete]

There are sure a lot of respones to the original question.

The web page on the Villages was quite interesting.

I think the bottom line is between 3 &4k, no sense living in paradise if you can't afford to do the things you want to do in paradise!

Thanx for all the respones.

[Happy Villager]

Currently our costs average around $700 per month living in TV. This amount only includes amenities, gas & electric, water, sewer, trash, cable, telephone, pest control and lawn service. To this amount you would need to figure your cost if you have a mortgage, car payment, food and entertainment expenses over and above the free activites available here in TV. It doesn't cost anything except your monthly amenity fee to use any pool, tennis courts, horseshoe pits, shuffleboard courts, pool tables, pickleball courts or walking areas. There are also clubs to join and places to play cards or bingo and get togethers with neighbors. Our cost to live in TV is less than what we needed living in Saratoga Springs, NY. Our taxes are lower, our gas cost for our car is usually only around $40 per month because we do mostly everything in our electric golf cart. The movies are less expensive here too and you can go to a show at the Savannah Center for $12.00. We made sure we weren't going to be house poor when we moved here and we know that if either of us passes away the surviving spouse will be able to maintain the same standard of living. You need to have a plan and work your plan. Personally I think everyone should live in TV because it is really a great lifestyle and so pretty here.

[Sandy222]

Of course there are many variables in this question. We are humble people who enjoy life everyday. BUT we live modestly and are very fortunate to live here in TV. The income needed depends so much on the size house you buy.....the bigger the house the larger the fees for water, bugs, lawn and A/C etc.. I would rather play than pay. We believe that mortgages and debt do not mix with retirement. There are so many free activities to enjoy BUT golf and college classes are $$. Eating out does need to be added into the budget. I never thought we would eat out this much.....love it.

Its a lifestyle that is just so great!!!

[Happy Villager]

Of course there are many variables in this question. We are humble people who enjoy life everyday. BUT we live modestly and are very fortunate to live here in TV. The income needed depends so much on the size house you buy.....the bigger the house the larger the fees for water, bugs, lawn and A/C etc.. I would rather play than pay. We believe that mortgages and debt do not mix with retirement. There are so many free activities to enjoy BUT golf and college classes are $$. Eating out does need to be added into the budget. I never thought we would eat out this much.....love it.

Its a lifestyle that is just so great!!!


I forgot to mention in my prior post but the Executive golf is also part of the monthly amenity cost there is no additional golf cost unless you choose to play on a Championship course.

[trumbull]

I have a comment and would like to get a response . If you go to the viilage website under advertising , rate card the comment is made that the average household in tv has a family income of $85,400. Just trying to nail down the cost when I stop working. We are from CT Fairfield county and everything is so expensive.

[villages07]

trumbull... that avg income may be a carrot to attract more commercial tenants; Last year, I met the gentlement who heads Citizen First Trust Dept and he quoted my a similar $85K figure...but, as I recall that pertained to their most recent homebuyers, not the total Villages population. This could be reasonable, given the number of younger retirees (and still working folks) coming in, those that are purchasing properties now (while still working) in anticipation of retirement, etc. Lots of ways to bend the numbers.

But, that being said, I think a number of the prior posts give a fair estimate of cost of living and the variables to consider. Size of house, mortgage or no mortgage, bond paid or no bond, auto expenses, insurance costs (self insured for health?) and all the extras (eating out, golf) all factor in. I agree that the basic cost to maintain a house here, excluding mortgage, is between 800-1100 per month. This would include all the various fees and services, homeowners insurance, property tax, bond, utilities. Vacations, dining out, extra golf, auto expenses, clothing, charity, income tax, etc are above and beyond this figure.

[jjdees]

trumbull, where did you find the village website under advertising?

[chuckinca]

SOOO - if you winter in TV and summer elsewhere you probably have to add the 800 - 1100 fixed monthly cost to the 3500 to 4000 to determine your cost to have two places (plus mortgages if applicable). on he upper end it looks to be about 5100/mo or 61,200 per year (I still think everyone is talking net numbers - after taxes numbers) so you probably have to add about another 10% which makes the total more like 67,000 per year for two places (and it looks like maybe over 1/3 of village people are snowbirds)


Maybe i need to work a few more years ! LOL

[SteveFromNY]

SOOO - if you winter in TV and summer elsewhere you probably have to add the 800 - 1100 fixed monthly cost to the 3500 to 4000 to determine your cost to have two places (plus mortgages if applicable). on he upper end it looks to be about 5100/mo or 61,200 per year (I still think everyone is talking net numbers - after taxes numbers) so you probably have to add about another 10% which makes the total more like 67,000 per year for two places (and it looks like maybe over 1/3 of village people are snowbirds)


Maybe i need to work a few more years ! LOL


Assuming that's right, at 6.7% return, you'd need $1 million invested to make $67K without hitting the principle!

[chuckinca]

Guess I'll have to sell my house

[SteveFromNY]

LOL ;D

[ZMAN]

If your selling your house you'll have to get in line. Lots of people waiting to sell so they can move to TV. >:(

[diskman]

OK, where should I start hm? OK Boomergirl, when you have something to ask that has NOTHING to do with the CURRENT TOPIC you go to the bottom of the page and click on the words NEW TOPIC.
Now to the topic at hand. I believe the person who posed the original question to be of modest means and I think my original response was fairly accurate. Yes muscles59, if you have a hefty income mortgage interest is a good deduction on an investment which will most likely increase. If someone has a paid house they can always get an equity loan or reverse mtg. We are Californians and have huge equity in our home (even in this market) and after all these years I can't wait to be mortgage free. So i can spend my bucks on life in retirement instead of supporting the bottom line of the bank. :hot: :hot: :beer2: :clap2: :2cool:
Larry & Bev

[trumbull]

jjdees it is under the villagesdailysun website, advertising then rate card

[mcelheny]

I have a 2,500 monthly retirement and I live in a patio villa with the 12 dollar monthly cable. I only spent between 800 to 1000 a month. Much cheaper than my old home. Go most places on electric golf cart. \ No mortgage in that. ..
But I have saved a lot from my retirement!!!! :)

[chuckinca]

My 84 yr old mother lives in Orange Blossom Hills in a double wide manufactured home and does about the same thing - gets by spending about a 1000 a month (with no mortgage); however a couple three times a year unexpected repairs/improvements/etc can cost a lot more and push the average closer to 1500 per month.

[jjdees]

Trumbull, I found it. Interesting stats. I'm kind of surprised at the average income of $85,000. I thought that was high.

[garsha]

We bought our house in the villages last year. We are still in CA both working >:( waiting for our house in CA to sell. I think the way the rate card is worded, this would include us in the average household. It sounds like we are not the only ones that own TV houses that still haven't retired yet. With both of us working it would pull the average up. This really distorts what we are all looking for which is: how much does it take to live in TV. I think the 3-4 thousand a month depending on your mortgage and car payments is right in the ball park.

From the Rate Card:
85,800 Average household income (in dollars) for home buyers in The Villages

[jjdees]

Good point Garsha. I hadn't thought of that.

[joanofarctv]

I've heard that there are lots of lenders available offering reverse mortgages in TV. Citizens First does them too! Maybe you need to check them out! I don't know alot about them but if I get pinched I might check them out as I know some people who have them.

[graciegirl]

I've heard that there are lots of lenders available offering reverse mortgages in TV. Citizens First does them too! Maybe you need to check them out! I don't know alot about them but if I get pinched I might check them out as I know some people who have them.

This thread was last posted on in 2007.

[TF Hutch]

How do the numbers work today? Investment income is less than inflation today.

[ssmith]

...it can be a good strategy but...you must be living in the absolute last home you will ever own. In other words no moving once it is done.

[l2ridehd]

Todays numbers based on my research.

All assume no mortgage so add that on top if you will have one and that you have some type of heath care coverage.

$2000 a month
Live quite frugal, small home, (1200 sq ft or less) take carry of many basics yourself, mow your own lawn etc., out to eat once a week to a low cost place executive golf and walk, and utilize as many free things to do as possible.

$3000 a month
Still live frugal, but do more, eat out more, take a decent vacation, but still do most things yourself vs hiring them done.

$4000 a month
Live well but not extravagant, play championship golf, out to eat a couple times a week to decent places, take vacations, and not worry about to much. Hire most services. Larger home, 1800 sq ft.

$5000 a month
Do what you want when you want, take a couple nice vacations, hire everything done, play lots of golf, enjoy life.

$6000 a month
You can live very well, nice home with a view, 2000 sq ft, hire all services, play championship golf 4 days a week, out to eat 3 or 4 times a week.

$7000 a month and above
No worries, be happy.

[aljetmet]

How do the numbers work today? Investment income is less than inflation today.

Then you have the wrong investments... CDs, savings and short to mid term treasuries just don't make it in today's economic world. You need to take some risk and not be afraid that the world is coming to an end.

If you can't stand the risk then buy some sort of annuity with guaranteed payouts. An annuity has to out perform short term interest baring instruments. Just remember that the company you buy the annuity can go belly up also....

To be able to live in TV we all had to do something right. IMHO making vast changes to you investment habits in retirement is a recipe for disaster.

[Bill32]

retirement and mortgage don't mix from my perspective. excluding mortgage I'd say $4,000/month.

My figure exactly..........

[janmcn]

If you live in a manufactured home on the historical side, it would cost no more than any other trailer park. Taxes are low, no lot rent, no bond. The only expenses would be the amenity fee, utilities, insurance. A person could probably live there on only their social security.

[kentucky blue]

I've heard that there are lots of lenders available offering reverse mortgages in TV. Citizens First does them too! Maybe you need to check them out! I don't know alot about them but if I get pinched I might check them out as I know some people who have them.

Reverse mortgages should only be used as a desperate last resort solution.The upfront fees are staggering and very profitable for the lender.They are very expensive loans and not a beneficial long term solution.They can also have an impact on medicaid eligibility.The cons far outweigh the pros, and should only be considered after a very thorough examination of your individual situation, and exploring options that could be more advantageous .