WHEN ALL HOUSES ARE BUILT WHO DO YOU THINK WILL RUN THE VILLAGES?

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I have been wondering if the present family will continue to run TV (once there are no more home sites left) or if it will be run by a management group. If they do leave, what do your feel might be the consequences - pro and con.

HB

[Villages Kahuna]

Each Community Development District (CDD) is required by law to be governed by a 100% property owner board by ten years after the formation of the CDD. The law permits a sliding scale of developer involvement on the governing board, from all members of the board in the first year to no developer-appointed board members after the tenth year.

There are currently seven CDD's and as I recall there will be nine after final build-out. From what I can gather from the viewpoint of a relatively new resident, the biggest problem seems to be how the various CDD's will band together to manage or govern the many common elements of the infrastructure and amenities that exist within TV. That's going to be a bear of a problem in that the interests of the residents in the older parts of TV are sometimes materially different than those in the newer parts of the development. For one thing, the age of the infrastructure and amenities in the older sections are going to create some very different needs and financial planning from those in the newer sections.

As far as the role of the developer, some time after complete build-out the developer will be left owning much of the retail buildings in and around TV. I'm pretty sure they "own" the town squares, the retail buildings in the town centers and much of the retail development around the periphery of the development. They could continue to manage those facilities, but personally I think it's more likely that they will sell them off, probably to multiple real estate investors.

Once the build-out is complete, the developer's motivations to maintain the "life style" of TV in order to attract new home buyers will be removed. At that point, it'll be up to the residents, I think, to assume the responsibility for governance and management of the community to continue to maintain the lifestyle for themselves.

The good news, I think, is that based on the sell rate of new homes and the legally-binding ten year program for shifting the membership of the CDD governing boards from developer to residents, it may be another 10-15 years before the residents of The Villages, particularly in the newer CDD's, will be required to run the place themselves.

In that I don't even buy green bananas these days, I'm going to thoroughly enjoy the magnificent management of this place by the developing family members for as long as I still see daylight when I wake up each morning. The actuarial tables tell me that someone else will have to worry about who runs this place when the time comes.

Someone tell me if I have this all wrong.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Thank you Villages Kahuna for your well thought out response. Appreciate it.

As far as Actuarial Tables, they are just that. For my part, you will prove those tables wrong.

HB

[mejahu]

From what I can tell, I think it's gonna be a BIG problem sooner, or later! ???

[jjdees]

Does anyone know what the status of Sun City in Arizona is? If I remember correctly, it's a Del Webb community built maybe 30 years ago. By now, it has to be built out and the Del Webb company has to have moved on. It would be interesting to learn how that place is functioning. I tried to research it on the web but didn't learn much.

[Villages Kahuna]

...even here in TV. Actually all the CDD's north of 466 (CDD's 1 thru 4) are already governed by totally resident-elected boards of supervisors. CDD 5 (the villages of Belvidere, Lynnhaven, Ashland and Bonnybrook) has a board ofsupervisors with two residents and three developer-appointed members. The rest of the CDD's south of 466 are still totally controlled by the developer.

The laws permitting the use of CDD's to develop real estate and then shift the governance from the developer to residents are widely used. There are almost 30,000 such CDD's in the U.S. with 700 or so in Florida. Of the Florida CDD's, about 500 are used for the governance of infrastructure and recreational amenities, just like here in TV.

There are actually two more existing CDD's, with one more planned, that will likely always be governed by the developer. Those are the CDD's that govern and manage the commercial buildings and activities in the town centers. There is one for Spanish Springs, another for Lake Sumter Landing, and I'm guessing there'll be a third for the new town center, Brownwood. Those have boards of supervisors totally appointed by the developer. I'm guessing that if the developer ever sells off the buildings and facilities in the town centers, the governance will be taken over by whomever the new owner or owners appoint. To me, that's the greatest area of risk that the "town center life style" could change.

There certainly are some future uncertainties regarding the governance of the infrastructure and amenities. But it's not like we're already about halfway there. Residents govern everything north of 466 and as I recall, there haven't been any dramatic negative developments as the result of the turnover of governance by the developer as the residential development is completed. Maybe we shouldn't get our shorts in a knot over a progression that already seems to be working pretty well.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi VK - where did you find out the information you have informed everybody about?

[Villages Kahuna]

The publication of the Newcomers: Guide To The Villages & Surrounding Counties booklet was timely, given this thread.

[chuckinca]

The Villages may incorporate as a City after the build out - see the link to the Wikipedia article on Palm Coast, FL which also has had a recent large increase in population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Coast%2C_Florida

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I read the article. Enjoyed reading about the history of the county. It peaked my curiosity, I will have read more about the historic aspects of the county.

Thanks for the info

HB

[Frangyomory]

In simple terms, the residents will be responsible. Don't know if you are aware, but the "country clubs" are being sold off one at a time by the developer to private owners. There actually is no such thing as a country club here because there is no membership fee or monthly allowance or fee. These are simply restaurants that are in the Villages and are open to the public as is everything else except Katie Belle's.

I agree that the Villages might at some time incorporate into a City but I am guessing that will be many years away. At the current time 2011 is the target date for all development to be completed by the Morse family etc. I would guess as long as a penny can be squeezed out of it, they will hang around to make it.

[opbob77]

I don't think things will change materially once all the CDD's are governed by the residents. I have faith that the residents will continue the lifestyle, and I hope I'm around for it! What I do know is that once build out has occurred our property values will climb through the roof as then there will be only one way to buy here, and that's an existing home.

[Happy Villager]

We just had the opportunity to vote in the last election on wether or not we wanted to be incorporated and it was voted down.

[b45]

Where can I get a copy of the Newcomers: Guide To The Villages & Surrounding Counties booklet?

[Frangyomory]

It was part of Sunday's Daily Sun. Contact the Sun for a copy.

[LG]

I hear they ( The Family ) are looking to build a similar community in Louisiana.. Need to keep the appearance up here to sell the newer communities.

[jtdraig]

:bigthumbsup:You nailed it, Kahuna! Good Job!!!!

[Skip]

Think about this for a minute. Aren't all the cities, towns, villages and counties you came from up north governed by the residents? You vote for supervisors, mayors, councilmen or managers and you vote about budgets, taxes, spending, even zoning. The mayor may have been your neighbor. It'll be the same here. That's what the Florida law is suppose to do, gradually move control from the developer when few people here - to the residents when it's fully built out.

What's a little scary is for the new owners of the Country Clubs to take them (and the Championship Courses) private with dues, greens fees and monthly restaurant tabs. But I doubt this would happen anytime soon. There's too much competition from the CDD owned Executive Courses.

And as far as forming it's own city or town, The Villages stretches over 3 counties plus incorporated (Lady Lake) and un-incorporated areas. It's nearly impossible to pull this off. Do you think Lady Lake wants to lose this tax base? We have rich tax payers and don't need schools. Also seniors mean lower crime rates. Lady Lake is the luckiest town in Florida - lots of income and little out go.

Skip

[chuckster]

Barb1191...........What has people "riled" up is the windfall the 5 mentioned resident POA members (300,000) plus their attorney's (6,700,000.00) will receive as self appointed reps of those north of 466 and stand to gain in future dealings for those south of 466. I don't recall appointing or electing the aforementioned "Village Five", do you?

It would seem that these funds (especially the 300,000.00) should be applied towards all village residents fees and not be a personal windfall for 5 self appointed reps.

[Muncle]

Please.....This is strictly my opinion and do not care to get into any kind of disagreement with anybody. I do not wish to argue other opinions but will attempt to explain how and why I arrive at my own opinions.


Hey Barb, you do not care to get into a disagreement with anyone, yet you have no problem telling Kahuna "How do you explain your duplicity?" Don't accuse someone of "being deceptive, dishonest, or misleading" (per Encarta dictionary) then plead that you are above it all.

And by the by, in his 4 month old posting that you cite, Kahuna states his belief that it would be 10-15 years before the residents assume control of TV. It is patently obvious to the most casual observer that while inevitable in the long run, this is not a situation with which he is comfortable. This is totally in keeping with his recent posts re the POA lawsuit.

[beartrack1]

This thread is a prime example of where I live now as well as the two previous resident operated locations that I have experienced.

Lets imagine for the moment that the developer has turned the management over to the residents, Now what? I guess an election would be held to place people on our new board of directors. And the winners are:

Barb
Kahuna
Muncle
Chuck
Skip
JT
Fran
Hyacinth

Just an example, please do not misunderstand me, I am not knocking anyone, Good people all. Now based on all their written opinions, some of which seem to be getting a little testy, what, if any, rational decisions do you think would come out of a group, that going in, already have a clash of personalities and some very diverse opinions about what is in our best interest. There you have it ! TV will be just like all the other community's that are in the hands of the home owners. This is the same recipe for disaster that permeates other community's. My opinion, for what it is worth is TV is so much better off in the hands of a professional management team then it would be with an untrained resident board, all bringing their own agenda to the table.

The thing that attracted us to TV is the management. One look at this place is all one needs to get the feeling that it is special. If it has to change, then so be it but, We have decided to wait awhile before we invest in another resident run community. We still love TV and can't wait to get there but, we will rent and wait and see.

[Villages Kahuna]

I'm from Chicago, the home of a decades-old and very effective form of government called a benevolent dictatorship. I haven't found many communities that would adopt such a form of governance, except those with a lot of ex-Chicagoans and then only if there was another generation of the Daley family around.

But seeing as that is my favorite form of governance, I guess that's what attracted me to The Villages, where the Schwartz-Morse family performs the same role as two generations of Daleys have in Chi-town. So while I am concerned what form of democracy will ultimately prevail in running this place, there's no way I would get involved in electoral politics...whether I'm asked, told or drafted! I'm not certain of my own benevolence.

With Election Day around the corner, remember the old Chicago adage...

Vote Early and Vote Often!

[Frangyomory]

Kahuna is just telling it like it is. I have two fears of the future:

1. The developer walks and our lifestyle is left in the hands of owners who will never vote to spenda dollar.

2. The developer stays and continues to manage in some form and continues to charge high fees for everything and continues to sell commercial property to the highes bidder in order to continue to support our lifestyle.

Does anyone see a problem with my fears??????

[Muncle]

:agree:
Fran, I see nothing wrong with your "fears" for the future. I too dread a management regime who's primary objective is to keep costs down at the expense of quality of life. Frugality is good, but not at the expense of what TV really is. We could all live somewhere cheaper, but it wouldn't be the same.

And I'm also concerned about a time when the developer divests himself of the major assets and brings in multiple companies who have no local connections or emotional ties to the history of TV. But, in all honesty, there's probably not much I can do about any of this now. So, unlike one of our more witty fellowmembers, I'll keep buying green bananas and I'll enjoy my life in TV. I'll bitch about stuff that bothers me and probably take potshots at the POA, which will then probably tick you off. But hopefully we'll have a lot of good years here to share the enjoyment and tick one another off about little stuff before armageddon. 040 040

[gfmucci]

I don't share these fears.* Not to say it will be easy to transition.* My experience comes from the City of Coral Springs, the only City in the nation to win a Baldrige award for high performance organizations.* That is not achieved through bickering, but by finding common ground among the leaders, having a common vision for the community, and professionally running a responsive and efficient organization.

How did Coral Springs become what it is, both aesthetically and governmentally?* Because it started off as a planned community, it attracted people of like mind who had a passion for a quality planned community.* They perpetuated their passion, 30 years later, to keep their community "top notch."

I see The Villages in a very similar situation.* The residents came here having a passion for the quality - for the lifestyle.* One way or another, they will assure that quality is maintained through a professionally operated, minimal bickering, cohesive and visionary organization.

I hope I'm right.

[chuckinca]

We all need to play some SimCity to help perfect the future of TV.

I grew up in a planned community of 25,000, similar to Levittown, and when the builder finished and left after fifteen years of construction, life went on and the home owners elected people and hired mangers to operate the town.

[lm01]

I think the family will move on to bigger and better things and then it will become our turn.

[gfmucci]

I played some SimCity.* Great game! ;D* Ya gotta keep them Sims happy!

[Villages Kahuna]

After doing a little research on the settlement proposed to resolve the class action lawsuit regarding the recreation facilities and programs, maybe an answer to this question was made a little clearer. (There's another thread on that subject elsewhere on TOTV.)

The residential districts will be governed by residents elected by the other residents of each district. That's already happened in all the districts north of CR 466 and will also happen in the newer districts south of 466 a few years in the future. That whole process is governed by Florida state law.

The three commercial districts (Spanish Springs, Lake Sumter and sometime in the future, Brownwood) will be governed by the owner(s) of the commercial property in those areas. Right now that's the developer of TV. He owns all the commercial property both in TV as well as a lot of it on the periphery of the development. He's made no move to sell out to other owners or investors and has said that The Villages is part of his family's history and there is no way they'd leave and permit a new owner to change the lifestyle that they worked for decades to produce. There's certainly no guarantee of a sellout not happening, but the developer's statement provides some comfort, at least. After the last house is built and sold, there will still be a sizeable commercial real estate management business remaining. It sure could be argued that the developer will have a very large and profitable commercial business remaining, even after he finishes building and selling houses.

An elected resident body, the new Amenity Authority Committee, which will be formed as the result of the proposed settlement of the lawsuit, will be most influential in governing our recreational facilities and programs. Will they have the same power as the owner of the facilities? Probably not. But if the proposed settlement is approved by the court, the role of residents in governing recreations facilities and programs will be significnatly increased.

[Hope2b]

ust keep the POA out of it

[bargee]

Sure turn it over to the VHA instead.

[Boomer]

Under this kind of governance, who is responsible for investing the money that comes in, I assume, from the amenities fees? (or do I have that straight?)

Is there anything in Florida law that governs investment of such funds?

-or can whoever just go off and buy Beanie Babies or art collections or some insurance company product that somebody's brother-in-law is selling?

There are some public pension funds that have made some terrible investments, some of which were beyond just a bad stock or two. People who do not know what they're doing have no business investing other people's money. But it happens all the time, especially in political positions.

So who watches over the residents' money?

TV is so beautifully maintained now. After the transition, can it stay that way?

[Villages Kahuna]

Once the residents take over their positions on the district governing bodies are elected positions. I suppose one might say that you won't have any better assurances that the resident district government will manage our money properly than we did when we lived up north. That's a question that seldom came up in city, county and local governments that had been in place with elected officials.

As far as the amenities fees, that gets paid to the central commercial districts that will own and run the recreation programs. Those districts are still owned and governed by the developer of TV. Florida state law governs the "community development district" form of government (which is what all the districts are here in TV), but I'm not certain of all the nuances of the law as it relates to fiduciary responsibility.

[chuckinca]

Then the 8 resident run CDD's could evolve into 8 separate communities and could have vastly different laws & regulations.

[jime]

I, for one, shudder at the thought of the residents "running" anything here in The Villages. While nothing is perfect, the founders and heirs of The Villages at least have the common good of the majority of the residents at heart; people appointed, elected or put in office by some other means to "run" things here will have their own self-serving interests in mind. I hope I'm wrong, but I forsee major problems if and when expenditures of the amenities fees and responsibilities for recreational activities is put in the hands of the residents.

Those advocating turning over the responsiility to the POA or the VHA have apparently never read their completely one-sided "the developer can't do anything right" comments; what a joke!