Farm raised fish vs wild

[Villages PL]

I suggested to my friend that we should go to Sam St. John's Seafood Restaurant again, like we did last December. Later, I realized I never did find out if the flounder was farm raised or wild. I don't want farm raised anymore; my friend doesn't care as long as the food tastes good.

So I called the Restaurant and the woman who answered the phone said she didn't know. I asked her if I would be able to find out and she said I could ask the server when I come in. That's nice! We pick out a restaurant and may have to get up and walk out if the flounder is farm raised. Or, maybe not if my friend is eager for the flounder. In that case, I have to try to find something that is wild. And I have a feeling that anything wild is going to be a lot more expensive. The baked flounder, all you can eat, with a couple of side dishes, is $10.00. Very reasonable. Therefore, I suppose I shouldn't even have to ask if it's farm raised.

I then called Red Lobster to see if their fish is wild. A man answered and, without hesitation, said most of their fish is farm raised. Haddock was the one exception at $17.99. That's what I suspected; anything wild is going to be much more expensive, and I'm a thrifty ol' geezer who doesn't want to spend that much. I'm not even sure if I would like Haddock anyway.

This leads me to believe that there's no such thing as a healthy (wild) fish dinner that's going to be under about $18. If it's over $12, I would rather buy it in the supermarket and cook it at home.

Now I either have to talk her out of going there or else I would have to find something on the menu other than fish. :22yikes: What can I order in a seafood place other than fish? I don't suppose they have any vegan meals, do they? (I'm not interested in a high sodium vegan burger.)

I think I would rather go to Subway.

[pooh]

You might enjoy the haddock.....it's generally a sweet, tender, white fleshed fish. It is a bit pricey, but it is a special time of the year and maybe you could make an exception...:)

Something you might want to consider is buying some fresh fish from the vendor in Brownwood. He brings fresh caught Florida fish from their store in Lake Mary.
The fish is fresh, delicious and bakes quickly. You could prepare some of your vegan dishes to accompny the fish.

[gomoho]

Did you check with Bonefish??? curious what their answer would be. I agree, I want nothing to do with farm raised fish. Sam's carries frozen Mahi and Salmon that is wild caught. They use to have wonderful tuna steaks as well, but haven't seen them lately.
If you are going out for seafood and want wild caught then you have to be prepared to pay the price or cook it at home yourself.

[lightworker888]

Thought I would mention the flash frozen right on the boat fish that is sold at Brownwood Market on Saturdays. I bought a piece of haddock that was nearly a pound in weight for $6.75. I have also bought cod there. They flash freeze the fish right on the boat as soon as it is caught. I figure I can't get it much fresher than that! JMHO

LW888

[obxgal]

Here is the link to their menu.
They do serve chicken, steak and salads.
Sam's St.johns Seafood menu - Summerfield, FL 34491 - (352) 307-7387 (http://www.allmenus.com/fl/belleview/136050-sams-stjohns-seafood-/menu/)

[murray607]

Thought I would mention the flash frozen right on the boat fish that is sold at Brownwood Market on Saturdays. I bought a piece of haddock that was nearly a pound in weight for $6.75. I have also bought cod there. They flash freeze the fish right on the boat as soon as it is caught. I figure I can't get it much fresher than that! JMHO

LW888

That is a good price. Haddock is the same family as cod and pollock. In UK haddock is probably the most preferred sea food and a mainstay in fish and chip shops.

We like both cod and haddock. Strangely, smaller sized pike can taste like cod depending on how it is prepared.

Some species of fish are almost entirely farm raised e.g. Atlantic Salmon.

I find that farmed Atlantic Salmon taste pretty much as good as the wild salmon used to. But, some farmed trout are have soft consistency in their flesh and don't compare to wild trout.

As far as I know haddock are not farmed, but cod are.

[Carl in Tampa]

I'm sure you realize that wild caught fish that come from the oceans are subject to having mercury contamination.

And of course you will not eat lobster, oysters, crabs, clams, snails, shrimps, eels, and catfish because they are scavengers.

Here is the link to Sam's menu.
They do serve chicken, steak and salads.
Sam's St.johns Seafood menu - Summerfield, FL 34491 - (352) 307-7387 (http://www.allmenus.com/fl/belleview/136050-sams-stjohns-seafood-/menu/)

Of course, the chicken and beef products are permitted to have additives and beef often has been fed hormones. The salad ingredients probably were treated with pesticides.

There is also the issue of how clean the kitchen is at the restaurant and whether or not any of the food handlers have any illnesses.

If you overthink the whole issue you might never eat out again.

:mmmm:

[CFrance]

I'm sure you realize that wild caught fish that come from the oceans are subject to having mercury contamination.

And of course you will not eat lobster, oysters, crabs, clams, snails, shrimps, eels, and catfish because they are scavengers.



Of course, the chicken and beef products are permitted to have additives and beef often has been fed hormones. The salad ingredients probably were treated with pesticides.

There is also the issue of how clean the kitchen is at the restaurant and whether or not any of the food handlers have any illnesses.

If you overthink the whole issue you might never eat out again.

:mmmm:

Carl, Carl, Carl!

[JP]

Honestly, I don't think there is a big difference between farm raised and wild raised anything. I don't think organic veggies are much if any different either.

In our current over populated world, there has to be big farm raised animals, fish, and vegetables or there would be a lot more starving people in the world with giant depletions of "wild" stock that would radically alter the environment.

[Barefoot]

I suspect much fish sold as wild may not be what is claimed as it has been exposed that once cooked, very few if any can really tell the difference as to what fish it is, much less where it was grown or caught.

I agree.

[gomoho]

My issue with farm raised is not the difference in taste, but how they are raised. Would rather risk a little mercury than the poop they swim around in. Maybe we can start a fish poop thread!

[lightworker888]

I get your point Carl, but I too would rather deal with mercury detoz than with the antibiotic and growth hormone issues of farmed fish. Incidentally, cilantro is a great chelator for mercury detoxing, so you could add it in the meal with fish as a precaution.

LW888

[PaPaLarry]

I myself, find a difference in farm raised and fresh caught (wild). I think farm raised is much more blah (bland) then fresh fish. Especially, when it comes to salmon!!!! I always look for sockeye salmon from west coast when having salmon. West coast salmon is so much tastier, and less oily. I always used to say (jokingly) that salmon only know how to turn right when coming back to spawn or lay eggs. So on the east coast, they turn right, and get lost at sea, (trying to find there way back) while on west coast, they turn right, and come right in without getting lost, using less energy (leaving more meat on fish). Of course, no proof to that!!!! I stay away from farm raised shrimp also. Like shrimp caught here in Florida. What's nice, we here in the USA have choices. By the way, Lopez Legacy, has fresh fish shipped to them.

[JP]

You simply can't supply the worlds demand with only "fresh" catches. It's impossible. Just look at the number of people eating shrimp on 'all you can eat shrimp night' in the ONE Red Lobster you are sitting in than multiply that by just the number of Red Lobster restaurants around just the USA and than multiply that by all the people eating shrimp in other restaurants and meals on that day in the WORLD. It is staggering. That's just ONE day.

I am willing to bet a lot of the so called "fresh" catch is right out of the the "fresh" farm tank. It has to be.

I'm also willing to bet, if you prepared a "fresh" caught piece of salmon and a "farm" raised piece of salmon side by side in the same pan with the same ingredients and didn't know which was which, you would have a hard time telling the difference.

[gomoho]

I don't believe anyone is suggesting they stop farm raising fish, but some of us prefer the naturally caught product. Also the bags of frozen clearly state if they are fresh caught or frozen; however, there are no guarantees anymore.

[mitchbr47]

There is definitely is a difference with farm raised Atlantic salmon and wild Alaskan salmon in coloration and taste.

[Villages PL]

Here is the link to their menu.
They do serve chicken, steak and salads.
Sam's St.johns Seafood menu - Summerfield, FL 34491 - (352) 307-7387 (http://www.allmenus.com/fl/belleview/136050-sams-stjohns-seafood-/menu/)

Thanks for the menu. Under the heading, Fishermans Catch, it says, "Catch of the day". That section sounds like it would be wild caught fish. And they have Flounder Fillet for $11.99. And Flounder is a cold water fish, just what I need to supply the healthy omega 3 fatty acids. Yahoo!

I just hope I'm right about it being wild. If not, I can always get the grilled chicken salad. The only problem with salads is trying to pick out a healthy dressing.....there's probably no such thing as a healthy restaurant dressing.

[rubicon]

There is so much misinformation going around about food and health, safety and nutritional issues. Perhaps someone needs to perfect food pills so we can eliminate all the concerns . We are becoming a country of alarmist, reactionaries anxiety prone fearful distrustful and unable to make our own decisions and choices. Geeezzzz

[buggyone]

I thought the chart on the attached page would be helpful in determination of Omega 3 for anyone interested. The flounder is pretty far down on the list but both farm raised and wild salmon is at the top.

Seafood Health Facts: Making Smart Choices (http://seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood_nutrition/practitioners/omega3_content.php)

[zcaveman]

My issue with farm raised is not the difference in taste, but how they are raised. Would rather risk a little mercury than the poop they swim around in. Maybe we can start a fish poop thread!

And what exactly do you think fish in the wild eat?

[Barefoot]

There is so much misinformation going around about food and health, safety and nutritional issues. Perhaps someone needs to perfect food pills so we can eliminate all the concerns . We are becoming a country of alarmist, reactionaries anxiety prone fearful distrustful and unable to make our own decisions and choices. Geeezzzz

And now we hear that washing hands with anti-bacterial soap may be a negative, not a positive. It's probably best to rely on our own common sense, not what we read. It seems we've turned into a society of anxiety-prone reactionaries (nice choice of words Rubicon).

[Villages PL]

Farmed fish are crammed in together with lots of poop, as was mentioned. Therefore, in order to keep the fish from spreading diseases, they put antibiotics in the feed. Then when people eat the fish they get those antibiotics in their system. That's not good because we can develop a resistance. If we get a bacterial infection later in life, as often happens, the antibiotics might not work.

This doesn't happen from one fish meal. It's a cumulative effect that comes from eating various kinds of animal protein that has been treated with antibiotics.

The other issue is: Omega 3 fatty acids vs Omega 6 fatty acids. Wild cold-water fish, is usually rich in omega-3. And that is healthy. Farm raised grain-fed fish, will likely be high in omega 6, just like grain fed beef.

Most people will think, "hey, lets be healthy and have fish tonight." Sorry, if it's farm raised and grain fed (or even if it's not grain fed) it won't be much healthier than eating grain fed beef, assuming the fat content is about the same.

As far as mercury contamination in wild fish: You can choose small fish rather than large. Small fish like wild Flounder is safe to eat. Ditto for sardines etc..

[Villages PL]

There is so much misinformation going around about food and health, safety and nutritional issues. Perhaps someone needs to perfect food pills so we can eliminate all the concerns . We are becoming a country of alarmist, reactionaries anxiety prone fearful distrustful and unable to make our own decisions and choices. Geeezzzz

It's the food industry that is creating the concerns, anxiety, fear and distrust. We have less and less natural whole foods anymore. To not be concerned we would either have to be ignorant of the facts or else in denial.

[Villages PL]

And now we hear that washing hands with anti-bacterial soap may be a negative, not a positive. It's probably best to rely on our own common sense, not what we read. It seems we've turned into a society of anxiety-prone reactionaries (nice choice of words Rubicon).

It only becomes common sense after people read about it. :-)

[Villages PL]

Search the following: "Seven reasons to avoid farmed raised salmon".

[Carl in Tampa]

Carl, Carl, Carl!

CFrance, I'm not quite sure what to make of your response to my post. Perhaps you would explain.

Maybe I was too subtle. To make it plain, I could live on seafood. I eat everything I listed except snails and eels. When given a choice I usually eat fried (yes, fried!) corn-fed farm-raised catfish, with hushpuppies and cole slaw. I've been known to have an appetizer of gator tail as well.

I also eat out frequently and often have beef or chicken. About the only thing I won't eat is liver.

I also love salads and use a variety of dressings; my favorite is oil and vinegar. I don't obsess about pesticides or insist on "organic" foods.

I believe I eat such a wide variety of foods that there is no one food that is so contaminated that it is going to harm me when eaten in reasonable quantities.

Yep, I eat fruit, vegetables, dairy and God's Gift to mankind, chocolate.

It's all good................................

:mmmm:

[Villages PL]

And what exactly do you think fish in the wild eat?

That may be true, I never really thought about it before. Here's something I just learned: Farm raised salmon are fed pellets of chicken feces.

You can find that by searching: "Seven reasons to avoid farm raised salmon."

[donb9006]

Most fish itself is mislabeled. You're not buying the species of fish you think you're buying. I'd imagine as far as farm vs wild, the answer will be...whatever they think you want to hear.

[donb9006]

And what exactly do you think fish in the wild eat?

Other fish? But they live in whatever washes into the sea.

And now we hear that washing hands with anti-bacterial soap may be a negative, not a positive. It's probably best to rely on our own common sense, not what we read. It seems we've turned into a society of anxiety-prone reactionaries (nice choice of words Rubicon).

Supposedly kills all but resistant bacteria. Same thing happens in hospitals.

It's the food industry that is creating the concerns, anxiety, fear and distrust. We have less and less natural whole foods anymore. To not be concerned we would either have to be ignorant of the facts or else in denial.

The "food industry", the name says it all...food for profit. Manufactured food. It's addicting (designed that way) and horrible for you. But they pay taxes and politicians...so, it's here to stay. I fall victim to it, I never buy fresh fruits or vegetables. Do onions count? I do buy them... I eat meat and dairy mostly.

I do stay away (for the most part) from packaged snacks.

[Shimpy]

Some species of fish are almost entirely farm raised e.g. Atlantic Salmon.
As far as I know haddock are not farmed, but cod are.

And.....some species of fish are never farmed raised. I saw in Publix today swordfish that they said was wild caught. That's one fish that would never be farmed raised. These fish are very deep water, always on the move fish.

[CFrance]

CFrance, I'm not quite sure what to make of your response to my post. Perhaps you would explain.

Maybe I was too subtle. To make it plain, I could live on seafood. I eat everything I listed except snails and eels. When given a choice I usually eat fried (yes, fried!) corn-fed farm-raised catfish, with hushpuppies and cole slaw. I've been known to have an appetizer of gator tail as well.

I also eat out frequently and often have beef or chicken. About the only thing I won't eat is liver.

I also love salads and use a variety of dressings; my favorite is oil and vinegar. I don't obsess about pesticides or insist on "organic" foods.

I believe I eat such a wide variety of foods that there is no one food that is so contaminated that it is going to harm me when eaten in reasonable quantities.

Yep, I eat fruit, vegetables, dairy and God's Gift to mankind, chocolate.

It's all good................................

:mmmm:

I thought your post was serious on one level and hysterical on another. Appreciated it.

[Carl in Tampa]

And.....some species of fish are never farmed raised. I saw in Publix today swordfish that they said was wild caught. That's one fish that would never be farmed raised. These fish are very deep water, always on the move fish.

Swordfish are reportedly very high in mercury contamination,

Also:

[JP]

So many people worry so much about what they eat they can't enjoy anything they eat anymore. What a shame.

I think when you think about adding minor amounts of the newest fruit or vegetable or protein that is supposed to extend your life or make you healthier you are just kidding yourself. How old do you want to be anyway? I see a whole bunch of old people in nursing homes that would be better off dead.

[casita37]

So many people worry so much about what they eat they can't enjoy anything they eat anymore. What a shame.

I think when you think about adding minor amounts of the newest fruit or vegetable or protein that is supposed to extend your life or make you healthier you are just kidding yourself. How old do you want to be anyway? I see a whole bunch of old people in nursing homes that would be better off dead.

I wouldn't say I "worry" about what I eat, but I do stay informed and am careful about what I eat. I can assure you I ENJOY every bite!! Not a shame, at all. Don't feel sorry for those of us who try to eat what we consider to be healthy. I can only speak for myself, but I LOVE the way I eat and enjoy the physical benefits and well as the mental high that comes from doing something good for myself. What could be more fulfilling than doing what you feel is the best you can do for your body?

I don't understand what "adding minor amounts of the newest fruit or vegetable or protein" means....?? I don't follow fad diets, and I don't need to lose weight. I eat what my research tells me is good for me. I also don't mind doing the research. I have a genuine interest and I like most things generally considered the healthiest foods.

My hope is not necessarily just to live longer, but to live better. I want to be as active and healthy as long as I can instead of being "sick" in my final years. I don't want to be on a bunch of medications either. The typical diet will definitely increase the chances of developing any number of ailments....Food as Medicine!! If eating an apple now instead of a piece of cake (usually:icon_wink:) means I will have more years of actually being able to feed myself, I'm all in!!!

I wanted to respond because so often people seem to misunderstand what motivates me (and others) to eat the way I do and seem to think I am somehow deprived. On the contrary, I feel very fortunate, particularly since a reasonable amount of red wine is considered healthy...:)

[travelguy]

I am confused. Wouldn't farm raised fish be better than fish caught in the wild? And it would certainly prevent over-fishing and depleting the oceans. Farm raised would have a regulated diet, raised in conditions where disease and such would be eliminated. Isn't it the same as harvesting blueberries from bushes growing wild on the side of the road or ones raised on blueberry farms? What about wild turkeys shot by hunters Vs turkey raised on farms?

[casita37]

Farmed fish are crammed in together with lots of poop, as was mentioned. Therefore, in order to keep the fish from spreading diseases, they put antibiotics in the feed. Then when people eat the fish they get those antibiotics in their system. That's not good because we can develop a resistance. If we get a bacterial infection later in life, as often happens, the antibiotics might not work.

This doesn't happen from one fish meal. It's a cumulative effect that comes from eating various kinds of animal protein that has been treated with antibiotics.

The other issue is: Omega 3 fatty acids vs Omega 6 fatty acids. Wild cold-water fish, is usually rich in omega-3. And that is healthy. Farm raised grain-fed fish, will likely be high in omega 6, just like grain fed beef.

Most people will think, "hey, lets be healthy and have fish tonight." Sorry, if it's farm raised and grain fed (or even if it's not grain fed) it won't be much healthier than eating grain fed beef, assuming the fat content is about the same.

As far as mercury contamination in wild fish: You can choose small fish rather than large. Small fish like wild Flounder is safe to eat. Ditto for sardines etc..

travelguy....Maybe you missed this post. That's the problem most people, who prefer wild, have with farm raised.

[buggyone]

That may be true, I never really thought about it before. Here's something I just learned: Farm raised salmon are fed pellets of chicken feces.

You can find that by searching: "Seven reasons to avoid farm raised salmon."


...and if isn't true, it cannot be on the internet. "Bon jour" :1rotfl:

[JP]

...and if isn't true, it cannot be on the internet. "Bon jour" :1rotfl:

Probably posted by someone that live catches salmon

[Cisco Kid]

Swordfish are reportedly very high in mercury contamination,

Also:

As a kid I would bust open thermometers and play with mercury in my hand.

[Ecuadog]

As a kid I would bust open thermometers and play with mercury in my hand.

Ahhh... That explains it.

[Cisco Kid]

Ahhh... That explains it.

And other things

[CFrance]

And other things

I'm so glad you're back. :clap2: Merry Christmas, you goofball.:ho:

[Shimpy]

Swordfish are reportedly very high in mercury contamination,
Also:

This is true and why I don't eat it anymore.

[Carl in Tampa]

I had 25 shrimp and rice pilaf for dinner. Don't know if they were wild caught or farmed.

Don't care. They tasted great.

:ho:

[Villages PL]

So many people worry so much about what they eat they can't enjoy anything they eat anymore. What a shame.

Not true. I'm concerned about what I eat just like you might be concerned about your golf game or your car etc.. It doesn't mean you won't enjoy golf or going for a ride in your car. It just means being conscientious. It may never have occurred to you that some people might enjoy eating healthy foods. I happen to get great enjoyment from avoiding junk-food and eating healthy foods.

I think when you think about adding minor amounts of the newest fruit or vegetable or protein that is supposed to extend your life or make you healthier you are just kidding yourself.

How do you know it's not the other way around? Where are the scientific studies to show that poor diets make people live longer and healthier? Poor diets subtract years from your life. Read the obituary page and you will see there's no shortage of people dying in their 60s and early 70s.


How old do you want to be anyway? I see a whole bunch of old people in nursing homes that would be better off dead.

People who live healthy lifestyles generally don't end up in nursing homes. They tend to stay independent. And if you stay healthy, you will live a long life. On the other hand, people who live unhealthy lifestyles sometimes live into their 80s but the last 10 to 15 years are usually of very poor quality.

I'll soon be 73 and I'm still in good (drug free) health. The way I feel (young) I think I can keep going another 27 years in good health.

[Villages PL]

I went to Sam St. John's Seafood Restaurant today and ordered the grilled chicken with two sides, coleslaw and green beans. It was very good! The grilled chicken couldn't have been better, in my opinion. And it was only $8.99. My friend had the farm raised flounder for $9.99. I think the chicken was the healthier and more enjoyable choice.

[Neal2tire]

Farm raised can be good but often bad. Depending on the country of origin and they often hide that Chinese or Thailand label under the "from New Jersey" label.
Some fish are not and never can be farm raised. Halibut, cod, haddock, bluefish, ono, and many tunas. Farm raised flounder is not flounder. Farm raised salmon is fine if it's farm raised in the ocean. Most farm raised fish are done in large ponds. Recirculated food and waste. Tilapia is garbage. Pretty as it looks it is always bad. Naturally contains Omega 6 and not omega 3 like many fish. Omega 6 is something you need to read up on.
Eat a stick of margarine instead. The Villages does not have a good fish market. The stand on 466 is very good but expensive. The real stuff. Sweetbay has great cod and haddock (at times). Take your fish pills and master chili.
Feel free to write and ask more. Many years in the fish biz.
Bubbagumpel@gmail.com (getting rid of the yahoo mail)

[leftyf]

I don't care if it is farm raised as long as it is not a product of China or Viet Nam.

[BarryRX]

This is from snopes.com about fish raised in China.

Tilapia are a fast-growing tropical species of fish native to Africa whose popularity in the commercial food industry has surged in recent years.


(Technically, tilapia is not the name of one specific species of fish but rather a common name for dozens of different species of cichlid fish.) Tilapia is now the fourth most-consumed seafood in the United States, after shrimp, tuna and salmon, and due to increased demand, much of the tilapia consumed by the public is now farm-raised rather than wild-caught. A June 2013 report from the Earth Policy Institute noted that worldwide production of farmed fish now not only exceeds the production of beef, but that consumption of farmed fish is soon expected to exceed consumption of wild-caught fish:
The world quietly reached a milestone in the evolution of the human diet in 2011. For the first time in modern history, world farmed fish production topped beef production. The gap widened in 2012, with output from fish farming — also called aquaculture — reaching a record 66 million tons, compared with production of beef at 63 million tons. And 2013 may well be the first year that people eat more fish raised on farms than caught in the wild.
One of the reasons for the popularity of tilapia is that they are short-lived and primarily vegetarian and therefore do not accumulate substantial amounts of mercury by consuming other fish, as other common predatory food fish (such as tuna) do. This factor also means, as reported in a June 2013 National Geographic article, that tilapia are more efficient to farm because they eat lower on the food chain:
Andy Sharpless, the CEO of Oceana [an ocean conservation organization] explained that many popular food species like salmon are carnivorous, often devouring other fish. So when farmed, they eat upwards of five pounds of small fish to produce just one pound of salmon, a net loss of protein.

"We're actually taxing the oceans every time we eat farmed salmon instead of relieving it," said Sharpless. "Aquaculture should add edible protein to the world, not reduce it."

Carl Safina, author, conservationist, and Ocean Views contributor, said he isn't surprised that farmed fish have overtaken beef, because the process is more efficient. "It's probably more like Step One in a long-term downsizing," said Safina.

He explained that people will soon start eating more farmed carp and tilapia, because they are lower on the food chain, and therefore more efficient — a driving force in an increasingly overpopulated world.

"We're down mainly to two mammals (cows and pigs) and two birds (chickens and turkeys), and seafood is probably headed in that same direction as the spectacular variety of our overfished ocean yields to a few easily farmed, efficiently fed fish," said Safina. "A crowded world has less room for choices; that's the bull lurking in this china shop."
Farmed fish aren't necessarily inferior to their wild-caught brethren, any more than farmed beef or grain is inferior to wild varieties of those foods. And there's no guarantee that wild-caught fish are a safer food source than farmed fish, as the former often ingest a variety of toxins and other pollutants that flow into the world's waterways. However, farmed tilapia can vary considerably in quality based on where they are produced. Tilapia are typically farmed in the U.S. and Canada using tanks with closed recirculating systems, but much of the tilapia consumed by Americans is imported from Latin America and Asia (particularly Ecuador, China, and Taiwan), where the fish are usually raised in outdoor freshwater ponds. (China is the world's largest producer of farmed tilapia, supplying approximately 40% of global production; nearly 40% of that output is exported to the U.S., primarily in the form of frozen fillets.) As reported by the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), in Ecuador tilapia are grown at low densities alongside shrimp to reduce water pollution, resulting in less disease and chemical use. But in China and Taiwan, water pollution and the use of chemicals in tilapia farming is a concern.

One of the issues with tilapia farmed in China is that smaller, independent farmers face economic pressures to use animal manure rather than more expensive commercial feed for farmed fish, a practice which contaminates water and makes the fish more susceptible to spreading foodborne diseases. A July 2009 report from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on the safety of food imports from China noted that in that country "Fish are often raised in ponds where they feed on waste from poultry and livestock" and cited an increased rate of FDA rejection of fish imports from China between 2000 and 2008:
Fish and shellfish products were the industry group with the most refusals from China, followed by vegetables and fruit products. Fish/shellfish share of refusals from China doubled from about 20 percent in 2000-04 to nearly 40 percent in 2007-08. Food and Water Watch also drew attention to the high incidence of safety problems with fish and shellfish imports from China.

Eels (frozen and/or roasted), catfish fillets, and shrimp accounted for most of the refused fish/shellfish shipments, but a wide variety of other products were also refused, including tilapia, tuna, monkfish, squid, jellyfish, crawfish, crab, cod, mackerel, and other fish species. The large number of fish and shellfish refusals may reflect increased monitoring of these products that began in 2006 due to chronic problems.
Similarly, an October 2012 Bloomberg article observed that the FDA had rejected 820 Chinese seafood shipments since 2007, including 187 that contained tilapia, and furnished examples of the practice of using manure as feed for farmed fish in China:
At Chen Qiang's tilapia farm in Yangjiang city in China's Guangdong province, which borders Hong Kong, Chen feeds fish partly with feces from hundreds of pigs and geese. That practice is dangerous for American consumers, says Michael Doyle, director of the University of Georgia’s Center for Food Safety.

"The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella," says Doyle, who has studied foodborne diseases in China.

On a sweltering, overcast day in August, the smell of excrement is overpowering. After seeing dead fish on the surface, Chen, 45, wades barefoot into his murky pond to open a pipe that adds fresh water from a nearby canal. Exporters buy his fish to sell to U.S. companies.

Yang Shuiquan, chairman of a government-sponsored tilapia aquaculture association in Lianjiang, 200 kilometers from Yangjiang, says he discourages using feces as food because it contaminates water and makes fish more susceptible to diseases. He says a growing number of Guangdong farmers adopt that practice anyway because of fierce competition.

"Many farmers have switched to feces and have stopped using commercial feed," he says.
The Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch program issued a report on pond-farmed tilapia from China in June 2012 which upgraded their previous "Avoid" recommendation to a "Good Alternative," although that organization's ratings primarily focus on environmental sustainability and ecological impact rather than food safety issues. China's increased recommendation status was due mostly to a reduction in water use and the discharge of effluent by tilapia farmers — factors which are local environmental concerns — rather than enhanced food safety measures. The report noted that use of banned chemicals by Chinese tilapia farmers is an ongoing concern:
Most Chinese tilapia is farmed in ponds. Recent reductions in water use, achieved by only emptying the ponds at the time of each harvest, has also reduced discharge of effluent to the environment. Both of these factors were sufficient to raise this recommendation from its previous "Avoid" to a "Good Alternative."

Chinese farms do discharge the water without relevant treatment, however, and there is evidence that some banned chemicals — including antibiotics and fungal treatments (nitrofurans and malachite green) — are still used in Chinese tilapia production.

Overall, Chinese tilapia gets a moderate overall score of 5.34 out of ten. Tilapia as a species has the potential to be raised in sustainable ways, but the increasing intensification and industrialization has resulted in one "Red" score for the Chemical Use criterion. This means that the overall ranking is "Yellow," and therefore the recommendation is "Good Alternative."
Making a blanket determination about whether American consumers should shun all food (or all of a particular type of food) imported from China is problematic because, as the FDA noted, the Chinese food industry is so broad and diverse:
Making generalizations about China’s food industry is difficult. Several thousand modern, large-scale, multinational and joint venture companies and farms that use best practices and sophisticated equipment operate alongside millions of small independent farms, workshops, and merchants that use crude equipment and techniques. China has some 200 million farming households with average land holdings of 1-2 acres per farm and at least 400,000 food processing enterprises, most with 10 or fewer employees. Millions of people and businesses are involved in the handling and transportation of food beyond the farm gate. The vast number of food suppliers increases the challenge of disseminating standards, monitoring production, and tracing problems to their source.

Read more at snopes.com: Do Not Eat Tilapia! (http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/tilapia.asp#zyUDbaCdi6AVGfZP.99)

[JP]

Not true. I'm concerned about what I eat just like you might be concerned about your golf game or your car etc.. It doesn't mean you won't enjoy golf or going for a ride in your car. It just means being conscientious. It may never have occurred to you that some people might enjoy eating healthy foods. I happen to get great enjoyment from avoiding junk-food and eating healthy foods.



How do you know it's not the other way around? Where are the scientific studies to show that poor diets make people live longer and healthier? Poor diets subtract years from your life. Read the obituary and you will see there's no shortage of people dying in their 60s and early 70s.




People who live healthy lifestyles generally don't end up in nursing homes. They tend to stay independent. And if you stay healthy, you will live a long life. On the other hand, people who live unhealthy lifestyles sometimes live into their 80s but the last 10 to 15 years are usually of very poor quality.

I'll soon be 73 and I'm still in good (drug free) health. The way I feel (young) I think I can keep going another 27 years in good health.

People can only hope their assumptions about their "healthy" lifestyles are true. There is really no proof. Genetics plays a huge part in how long people live no matter what their lifestyle.

[Villages PL]

People can only hope their assumptions about their "healthy" lifestyles are true. There is really no proof. Genetics plays a huge part in how long people live no matter what their lifestyle.

And some people must hope that their assumptions about genetics are true. When you say that genetics plays a huge part, how do you define "huge"? Who came up with "huge"? Are you talking about what scientific studies have determined? And if it's not based on scientific studies, what else is there to base it on?

The CDC states that only about 4 to 6% of cancers are genetic. That's certainly not "huge".

I can't speak for others but I can tell you that my lifestyle, for the most part, is based on what has been proved scientifically.

[Villages PL]

Neal2tire: "Omega 6 is something you need to read up on."


I have read whole books on the subject of Omega 6 and omega 3. Omega 6 is not good or bad and omega 3 is not good or bad. It's the ratio or balance between the two that's important. In nature the smallest (wild) cold-water-fish, like sardines, eat plankton. They are therefore high in omega 3. And the bigger fish eat the small fish; that's how they get their omega 3.

If you farm raise fish where they don't have access to plankton, or the smaller fish that eat plankton, they will be deficient in Omega 3, or to state it another way, they will have a higher ratio of omega 6.

But that's not the only downside to farm raised fish. There's the issue of them being fed antibiotics etc.. When fish are farm raised I'm not going to assume that they were raised (fenced in) in the ocean. I'm going to assume the worst unless someone can prove, or show me, otherwise.

[Villages PL]

Genetics plays a huge part in how long people live no matter what their lifestyle.

Can you prove it? Genetics? what percentage? Lifestyle? What percentage? The word "huge" is meaningless unless you have something to back it up.

[Villages PL]

This is from snopes.com about fish raised in China.

Tilapia are a fast-growing tropical species of fish native to Africa whose popularity in the commercial food industry has surged in recent years.


(Technically, tilapia is not the name of one specific species of fish but rather a common name for dozens of different species of cichlid fish.) Tilapia is now the fourth most-consumed seafood in the United States, after shrimp, tuna and salmon, and due to increased demand, much of the tilapia consumed by the public is now farm-raised rather than wild-caught. A June 2013 report from the Earth Policy Institute noted that worldwide production of farmed fish now not only exceeds the production of beef, but that consumption of farmed fish is soon expected to exceed consumption of wild-caught fish:
The world quietly reached a milestone in the evolution of the human diet in 2011. For the first time in modern history, world farmed fish production topped beef production. The gap widened in 2012, with output from fish farming — also called aquaculture — reaching a record 66 million tons, compared with production of beef at 63 million tons. And 2013 may well be the first year that people eat more fish raised on farms than caught in the wild.
One of the reasons for the popularity of tilapia is that they are short-lived and primarily vegetarian and therefore do not accumulate substantial amounts of mercury by consuming other fish, as other common predatory food fish (such as tuna) do. This factor also means, as reported in a June 2013 National Geographic article, that tilapia are more efficient to farm because they eat lower on the food chain:
Andy Sharpless, the CEO of Oceana [an ocean conservation organization] explained that many popular food species like salmon are carnivorous, often devouring other fish. So when farmed, they eat upwards of five pounds of small fish to produce just one pound of salmon, a net loss of protein.

"We're actually taxing the oceans every time we eat farmed salmon instead of relieving it," said Sharpless. "Aquaculture should add edible protein to the world, not reduce it."

Carl Safina, author, conservationist, and Ocean Views contributor, said he isn't surprised that farmed fish have overtaken beef, because the process is more efficient. "It's probably more like Step One in a long-term downsizing," said Safina.

He explained that people will soon start eating more farmed carp and tilapia, because they are lower on the food chain, and therefore more efficient — a driving force in an increasingly overpopulated world.

"We're down mainly to two mammals (cows and pigs) and two birds (chickens and turkeys), and seafood is probably headed in that same direction as the spectacular variety of our overfished ocean yields to a few easily farmed, efficiently fed fish," said Safina. "A crowded world has less room for choices; that's the bull lurking in this china shop."
Farmed fish aren't necessarily inferior to their wild-caught brethren, any more than farmed beef or grain is inferior to wild varieties of those foods. And there's no guarantee that wild-caught fish are a safer food source than farmed fish, as the former often ingest a variety of toxins and other pollutants that flow into the world's waterways. However, farmed tilapia can vary considerably in quality based on where they are produced. Tilapia are typically farmed in the U.S. and Canada using tanks with closed recirculating systems, but much of the tilapia consumed by Americans is imported from Latin America and Asia (particularly Ecuador, China, and Taiwan), where the fish are usually raised in outdoor freshwater ponds. (China is the world's largest producer of farmed tilapia, supplying approximately 40% of global production; nearly 40% of that output is exported to the U.S., primarily in the form of frozen fillets.) As reported by the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), in Ecuador tilapia are grown at low densities alongside shrimp to reduce water pollution, resulting in less disease and chemical use. But in China and Taiwan, water pollution and the use of chemicals in tilapia farming is a concern.

One of the issues with tilapia farmed in China is that smaller, independent farmers face economic pressures to use animal manure rather than more expensive commercial feed for farmed fish, a practice which contaminates water and makes the fish more susceptible to spreading foodborne diseases. A July 2009 report from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on the safety of food imports from China noted that in that country "Fish are often raised in ponds where they feed on waste from poultry and livestock" and cited an increased rate of FDA rejection of fish imports from China between 2000 and 2008:
Fish and shellfish products were the industry group with the most refusals from China, followed by vegetables and fruit products. Fish/shellfish share of refusals from China doubled from about 20 percent in 2000-04 to nearly 40 percent in 2007-08. Food and Water Watch also drew attention to the high incidence of safety problems with fish and shellfish imports from China.

Eels (frozen and/or roasted), catfish fillets, and shrimp accounted for most of the refused fish/shellfish shipments, but a wide variety of other products were also refused, including tilapia, tuna, monkfish, squid, jellyfish, crawfish, crab, cod, mackerel, and other fish species. The large number of fish and shellfish refusals may reflect increased monitoring of these products that began in 2006 due to chronic problems.
Similarly, an October 2012 Bloomberg article observed that the FDA had rejected 820 Chinese seafood shipments since 2007, including 187 that contained tilapia, and furnished examples of the practice of using manure as feed for farmed fish in China:
At Chen Qiang's tilapia farm in Yangjiang city in China's Guangdong province, which borders Hong Kong, Chen feeds fish partly with feces from hundreds of pigs and geese. That practice is dangerous for American consumers, says Michael Doyle, director of the University of Georgia’s Center for Food Safety.

"The manure the Chinese use to feed fish is frequently contaminated with microbes like salmonella," says Doyle, who has studied foodborne diseases in China.

On a sweltering, overcast day in August, the smell of excrement is overpowering. After seeing dead fish on the surface, Chen, 45, wades barefoot into his murky pond to open a pipe that adds fresh water from a nearby canal. Exporters buy his fish to sell to U.S. companies.

Yang Shuiquan, chairman of a government-sponsored tilapia aquaculture association in Lianjiang, 200 kilometers from Yangjiang, says he discourages using feces as food because it contaminates water and makes fish more susceptible to diseases. He says a growing number of Guangdong farmers adopt that practice anyway because of fierce competition.

"Many farmers have switched to feces and have stopped using commercial feed," he says.
The Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch program issued a report on pond-farmed tilapia from China in June 2012 which upgraded their previous "Avoid" recommendation to a "Good Alternative," although that organization's ratings primarily focus on environmental sustainability and ecological impact rather than food safety issues. China's increased recommendation status was due mostly to a reduction in water use and the discharge of effluent by tilapia farmers — factors which are local environmental concerns — rather than enhanced food safety measures. The report noted that use of banned chemicals by Chinese tilapia farmers is an ongoing concern:
Most Chinese tilapia is farmed in ponds. Recent reductions in water use, achieved by only emptying the ponds at the time of each harvest, has also reduced discharge of effluent to the environment. Both of these factors were sufficient to raise this recommendation from its previous "Avoid" to a "Good Alternative."

Chinese farms do discharge the water without relevant treatment, however, and there is evidence that some banned chemicals — including antibiotics and fungal treatments (nitrofurans and malachite green) — are still used in Chinese tilapia production.

Overall, Chinese tilapia gets a moderate overall score of 5.34 out of ten. Tilapia as a species has the potential to be raised in sustainable ways, but the increasing intensification and industrialization has resulted in one "Red" score for the Chemical Use criterion. This means that the overall ranking is "Yellow," and therefore the recommendation is "Good Alternative."
Making a blanket determination about whether American consumers should shun all food (or all of a particular type of food) imported from China is problematic because, as the FDA noted, the Chinese food industry is so broad and diverse:
Making generalizations about China’s food industry is difficult. Several thousand modern, large-scale, multinational and joint venture companies and farms that use best practices and sophisticated equipment operate alongside millions of small independent farms, workshops, and merchants that use crude equipment and techniques. China has some 200 million farming households with average land holdings of 1-2 acres per farm and at least 400,000 food processing enterprises, most with 10 or fewer employees. Millions of people and businesses are involved in the handling and transportation of food beyond the farm gate. The vast number of food suppliers increases the challenge of disseminating standards, monitoring production, and tracing problems to their source.

Read more at snopes.com: Do Not Eat Tilapia! (http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/tilapia.asp#zyUDbaCdi6AVGfZP.99)

It's a matter of trust. China doesn't have my trust.

[JP]

Scientific studies are constantly skewed to who is doing them. You can't believe them all.

Lets's see....Coffee is good, coffee is bad; margarine is good, margarine is bad; vitamins are good, vitamins are bad; this is good, this is bad.

It just goes on and on.

Good genes, common sense and moderation will get you just as far as most enhancements or restrictions the current "scientific study" is claiming will extend your life.

[buzzy]

Some day they will propose that too much moderation is not good for you.

[Villages PL]

Scientific studies are constantly skewed to who is doing them. You can't believe them all.

I agree. Some studies are funded by the food industry.

Lets's see....Coffee is good, coffee is bad; margarine is good, margarine is bad; vitamins are good, vitamins are bad; this is good, this is bad.

I agree. All the food items you mentioned can have both good and bad aspects to them.

It just goes on and on.

I choose to look at the positive side: There are lots of whole food items where there is either very little or no debate. My diet consists of lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, nut & seeds. And on rare occasions a little chicken, turkey or wild caught fish.

Mostly, the debate goes "on and on" for those who don't like natural whole foods. For those who eat mostly processed foods, there will always be some debate as to how good or how bad those foods are for your health.

Good genes, common sense and moderation will get you just as far as most enhancements or restrictions the current "scientific study" is claiming will extend your life.

Do you recommend good genes? I'll have to remember to get some, the next time I go to the gene store. I've been meaning to do that but never seem to get around to it. ;)

Common sense: My common sense tells me to limit processed foods to a few items like olive oil, Ezekiel bread and whole grain pasta. (Cooking is a form of processing too and I do some cooking.)

Moderation That which I have outlined above I consider to be moderation. I don't believe in eating a moderate amount of fast food. My common sense tells me not to do that.

Note: My common sense may be different than your common sense because I have actually studied health and nutrition for quite some time. So maybe I should call it an uncommon educated sense. Not that I know everything about health and nutrition, that's impossible; it's an ongoing process of learning; but I think I know more than the average person.

[Skip]

Some day they will propose that too much moderation is not good for you.

I like that. :agree:

Skip

[CFrance]

Some day they will propose that too much moderation is not good for you.

Moderation causes rats in cancer.barf

[JP]

Only the moderator can moderate moderation.

[Barefoot]

Scientific studies are constantly skewed to who is doing them. You can't believe them all. Lets's see....Coffee is good, coffee is bad; margarine is good, margarine is bad; vitamins are good, vitamins are bad; this is good, this is bad. It just goes on and on.

Good genes, common sense and moderation will get you just as far as most enhancements or restrictions the current "scientific study" is claiming will extend your life.

I think you're right JP. Common sense goes a long way. I do believe the studies that say that having a supportive circle of good friends is one of the best ways to stay healthy, both mentally and physically.

[Carl in Tampa]

I think you're right JP. Common sense goes a long way. I do believe the studies that say that having a supportive circle of good friends is one of the best ways to stay healthy, both mentally and physically.

I agree that having good friends to support you goes a long way towards good health. If it weren't for a spinal injury that required very extensive and invasive surgery, I would be considered to be in very good health.

I have already achieved an age far in excess of both of my parents and three of my four grandparents --- due mostly to advances in treating heart conditions. Medicine overcame genetics.

In the mean time I again had shrimp, salmon and mixed veggies for dinner. Didn't ask where they came from.

:mmmm:

[JP]

I think you're right JP. Common sense goes a long way. I do believe the studies that say that having a supportive circle of good friends is one of the best ways to stay healthy, both mentally and physically.

I totally agree and think that a supportive circle of friends is critical to a happy, healthy life. I feel so fortunate to have the good friends I have.

My diet may not be the greatest but my friends are!

[CFrance]

I totally agree and think that a supportive circle of friends is critical to a happy, healthy life. I feel so fortunate to have the good friends I have.

My diet may not be the greatest but my friends are!

That's a great sentiment! :pepper2::pepper2:

[Villages PL]

I think you're right JP. Common sense goes a long way. I do believe the studies that say that having a supportive circle of good friends is one of the best ways to stay healthy, both mentally and physically.

I just heard a report on the radio that said, "being overweight is a socially transmitted disease." If your friends are overweight because they eat big portions of the wrong foods, the chances are you will follow their example.

[Barefoot]

I just heard a report on the radio that said, "being overweight is a socially transmitted disease." If your friends are overweight because they eat big portions of the wrong foods, the chances are you will follow their example.

When people have a supportive circle of friends, it is very probable that some are thin, some are fat, and some are in between. Most of us on this site are Wrinklies that have already decided our eating philosophy. I don't think you have to be concerned that we will be unduly influenced by what friends eat.

Happy New Years VPL. Get out there and attend the Singles Party!! I truly hope you have more fun and less worry in 2014.

[Villages PL]

When people have a supportive circle of friends, it is very probable that some are thin, some are fat, and some are in between. Most of us on this site are Wrinklies that have already decided our eating philosophy. I don't think you have to be concerned that we will be unduly influenced by what friends eat.

Happy New Years VPL. Get out there and attend the Singles Party!! I truly hope you have more fun and less worry in 2014.

Me worry? Happy New Year, Barefoot.

[Barefoot]

VPL, there are a lot of people who would like to meet you. Why don't you consider attending one of the monthly TOTV luncheons at Crispers, just around the corner from your house! Reminders about the meeting are always posted on TOTV in advance.