I thought there were no fences allowed

[hema54]

I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

[KARENNN]

I was wondering if that was allowed...if a fence is OK if it is hidden in landscaping.

[Peachie]

I was wondering if that was allowed...if a fence is OK if it is hidden in landscaping.

I would imagine anything is okay if you hide it and no one sees it to report it.

[redwitch]

If no one complains, it's allowed. Sad but seems to be true.

[buggyone]

Probably depends on the person.

If the hedges cover the wire fence completely and the dogs are no problem, I would probably leave it be.

However, if it detracted from the neighborhood in any way or if the dogs were noisy, I would report them to The Villages.

[justjim]

Are the bushes behind the wire fence or in front of the wire fence or both? Just trying to visualize the fence and landscaping.

[Bogie Shooter]

No fences!
Rules are rules.

[hema54]

The bushes are on the outside of the fence. if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there. Trying to make it an invisible fence I guess. But that is not the point. How many other dog owners will put up the not invisible fence and call it landscaping shrubs.

[Challenger]

No fences!
Rules are rules.

..........:bigbow:

[gomoho]

no fences!
Rules are rules.

bah humbug bogie

[travelguy]

whatever rules we have here in the villages are usually not enforced unless there are complaints. so, if you want action then register a complaint. the fences will be removed.

[graciegirl]

Bogie is right. If those with fences are reported the fences will have to be removed. I am one who thinks that the deed restrictions in place keep everything looking nice and keep the value of all of our properties.


We have lived with deed restrictions in our old area for the last forty years. They really enhanced our property values and kept things looking nice uniformly.

[TexaninVA]

I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

No, you cannot put up a fence "legally." You especially cannot set up a covert dog run. If you report it to the VCDD, they will send an officer to inspect, and write up the homeowner. This is done anonymously ... ie if you report your name is not used. The homeowner is then given some time to fix (ie remove) or face a fine. in the worse case, continued ignoring of official requests to fix can result in additional legal action against the offending homeowner.

Let's face it ... these people know the rules, signed a legal document to that effect, but are trying to evade them. Therefore, they should be reported.

[Barefoot]

The bushes are on the outside of the fence. if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there.

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.

[Pturner]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.


Makes sense to me.

[casita37]

It was explained to us, by TV sales rep, that fences of any sort, including "landscaping" , are not allowed. This means that if you plant shrubs in such a configuration that will actually contain a dog, it's not allowed, even if there is no actual wire or other fence material.

Invisible fences, buried in the ground, are acceptable.

I'm a total dog lover and I, personally, would never report my neighbor unless it was truly a problem, but I have to shake my head at the people that buy here, knowing we have a whole bunch of rules, then go about trying to break the rules that keep it nice for all.

[Trish Crocker]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.

Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable. The next time someone puts up a fence they only have to say "THEY were allowed to do it". It's deed restrictions that keep this area as beautiful as it is and will insure our property values. When individuals buy into an area with deed restrictions it is done with the agreement that they will comply. We can't keep the restrictions that we like and give up the ones that we don't. There are people that think there is nothing wrong with cars on cinder blocks in the driveway or operating a day care in their house. There may be restrictions that I'm not crazy about but it's a really, really small price to pay.

[Happinow]

The rules are no fences or dog runs. If one is creating a new spot in their yard such as a bricked in wall area or something with a cage, the area has to be at least 85% covered with spmething other than grass, I.e., brick, concrete, slate. It cannot be more than 15% grass so as to prevent people putting in dog runs. It someone has broken the rules, then as long as nobody complains they can get away with it. However, it someone Complains they will have to comply with the 85/15% rule. They will make them take down the fence and put a solid surface in.

[tippyclubb]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.

I like the way you think, and I understand what your saying 100%.

[Barefoot]

[QUOTE=Trish Crocker;799332]Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable. [QUOTE]

I get your point, Trish. And in theory, I agree. But I'm just saying there are so darn many things that people complain about. Everything from people putting out garbage on the wrong day to people having grandchildren visit for more than 30 days. When I ride my bike through different neighborhoods, I have actually seen red driveways, houses that have properties that are completely rocked, and lawn ornaments galore (south of 466). Visible things that make me say Yikes!

I think there are a heck of a lot of infractions of community restrictions. And of course none of us want that. But we also don't want to be on the phone every day complaining about a neighbor.

Bottom line ... I think you have to choose your battles wisely, issues that you find really offensive or cause safety issues. A fence that can't be seen seems to be at the bottom of the list.

[mulligan]

You also may not define a property line with hedges per Community Standards office.

[babs1199]

[QUOTE=Trish Crocker;799332]Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable. [QUOTE]

I get your point, Trish. And in theory, I agree. But I'm just saying there are so darn many things that people complain about. Everything from people putting out garbage on the wrong day to people having grandchildren visit for more than 30 days. When I ride my bike through different neighborhoods, I have actually seen red driveways, houses that have properties that are completely rocked, and lawn ornaments galore (south of 466). Visible things that make me say Yikes!

I think there are a heck of a lot of infractions of community restrictions. And of course none of us want that. But we also don't want to be on the phone every day complaining about a neighbor.

Bottom line ... I think you have to choose your battles wisely, issues that you find really offensive or cause safety issues. A fence that can't be seen seems to be at the bottom of the list.

Well said ! I agree 100 %. I do realize that we are not to have fences, but if you can't see the fence, why should we get so upset over it. We need to take a chill pill and calm down.... There are so many things that we can let get to us, we must remember we do live in paradise and be thankful that we can live in a beautiful area !

[Suzi]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.
Life is full of rules - not just the ones in TV. My neighbor may be doing something against the rules, but if I don't know about it........ Kind of like the tree falling in the forest. If you can't see the fence, how can it possibly offend you. Some people water their lawn at night more than the rules allow. Should someone stay up at night and count the number of minutes and frequency of persons watering? Should you have to obtain permission to leave your garbage out before the due date if you are going out of town? Before you say but....but....what if you don't have neighbors yet to do it on time for you?
If something is TRULY offending, by all means complain. If you can't see it, I think you need to consider why it bothers you so much.

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=Trish Crocker;799332]Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable. [QUOTE]

I get your point, Trish. And in theory, I agree. But I'm just saying there are so darn many things that people complain about. Everything from people putting out garbage on the wrong day to people having grandchildren visit for more than 30 days. When I ride my bike through different neighborhoods, I have actually seen red driveways, houses that have properties that are completely rocked, and lawn ornaments galore (south of 466). Visible things that make me say Yikes!

I think there are a heck of a lot of infractions of community restrictions. And of course none of us want that. But we also don't want to be on the phone every day complaining about a neighbor.

Bottom line ... I think you have to choose your battles wisely, issues that you find really offensive or cause safety issues. A fence that can't be seen seems to be at the bottom of the list.

The deed restrictions say no fences. It doesn't read that some may have fences or only fences that people like.
I agree if one gets away with having a fence then the next fence might be a lot more visible...............what's next a stockade fence? Your logic will just become more difficult to defend.
We all signed on by accepting the deed restrictions. They should be enforced. There are no choosing of battles that some are OK and others are not
So if I see something that should not be happening, I'll be making the call.
You don't have to drive very far from The Villages to see what happens when there are no deed restrictions.

[Bogie Shooter]

[quote=Barefoot;799346][QUOTE=Trish Crocker;799332]Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable.

Well said ! I agree 100 %. I do realize that we are not to have fences, but if you can't see the fence, why should we get so upset over it. We need to take a chill pill and calm down.... There are so many things that we can let get to us, we must remember we do live in paradise and be thankful that we can live in a beautiful area !

What about the next fence that you can see? What do you do then?
The Villages would not be a beautiful area................if all you could see were fences. Do you agree?

[Bogie Shooter]

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/all-about-pets-120/dog-area-whom-should-i-consult-84529/

[CFrance]

We lived in a condo for 16 years. There were rules. If you disregarded the rules, you would get a letter asking you to cease and desist. If you didn't, other things could happen, up to and including a huge lien on your condo. Some people decided to do their own landscaping, including those little fake brick walls. They were made to remove them. Even though we were on a marina, boats and rv's were not allowed in driveways longer than a week. No lawn ornaments. You signed on to that when you bought. The result is that the entire property is pristine and homogenous. Property values remain good. We lived in a condo complex in the '70s where rules were not enforced, and the entire property declined. So we've been in both situations.

I think you get into a problem when you decide it's okay for a fence here, okay for a lawn ornament there, etc. If my neighbor put up a four-foot wire fence, even with shrubs around it, I would certainly be able to see that fence. I think it would devalue my property for resale, and I would register a complaint.

I really wish TV would be more pro-active about enforcing its own rules so these issues wouldn't arise.

[obxgal]

Instead of breaking rules, they should have bought a courtyard villa.

[Ecuadog]

I agreed to the rules and expect to honor that agreement. I would hope that my neighbors are as honorable.

[TrudyM]

You also may not define a property line with hedges per Community Standards office.

Rules are Rules I get it but what I don't get is the reasoning behind the rule in the first place.
So the whole purpose is so you can't find were your property line is? Doesn't make sense to me. A lot of the houses that have been here awhile have privacy landscaping in the back. The houses that back to a wall (ie are behind a street of courtyard villas) go for more money as do courtyard villas of equal square footage.so fencing must not be totally undesirable.

There was I believe a couple of streets that they put up a wall running on the rear line but then dropped the idea for whatever reason.

The only reason I can see for it is they think it will make people feel like they have more land than they do and be less aware of just how small the lots are.

I wonder if all the houses on both side of a rear line in a neighborhood decided they wanted to increase their property value by putting up a block wall down the rear line if they could get a variance.

If I buy here I will have to decide courtyard villa with only a 1 and a half garage or no privacy because no fences. I have moved a lot and have always found good fences made good neighbors. Restrictions on construction type, style. height I totally get none at all I don't. One place I lived they had to be cedar, stained natural and no higher than 5 and a half feet. Another town they had to be cement block and tan color. I didn't have a problem with either but none at all I just don't get it. Maybe someone could explain the appeal.

[Steve Gawdun]

You bring up a good question about Code Enforcement. I reached out to the Building Codes Division of District 10. The answer I found was that Code Enforcement is 100% Complaint Driven. In other words, build something outside of the building code, if no one complains, neighbor, etc. then you'll get away with it until???? Risky way to live. If you don't like your neighbor and it bothers your freedom...Complain to your local Board and the fences will come down or they'll be paying Fines to keep them up. BEWARE if you choose to complain you MUST leave your name and address. This does become public record. This is needed to avoid for those false complaints.

[mulligan]

If everyone would bother to read the restrictions that they agreed to at closing (yes, even on resales), they would have read the last section that states that we all have an OBLIGATION to see that the restrictions are enforced up to and including litigation. MAKE THE CALL. It's anonymous, folks, but it keeps the place beautiful and safe for all of us.

[mickey100]

The rules are there for a reason - to keep the Villages looking good. The rules are not there "just to be rules". If the fence cannot be seen, and I'm assuming it must be something the neighbors needed and serves a purpose, the dogs are not bothering anyone, why would anyone complain. You'll create bad feelings with your neighbor and it doesn't meet the criteria of making The Villages look better. Why worry about an invisible fence particularly if it doesn't hurt anyone and one wouldn't even know it was there had they not seen it going up. On the other hand, if the fence was visible, that is a different story. For whatever reason, The Villages thinks fences don't look good and have restricted their use. If a person didn't like the looks of a fence, and didn't mind starting a war with the neighbor, by all means report it.

[rubicon]

[QUOTE=Trish Crocker;799332]Barefoot, it isn't the fence you 'can't see'...it's the legal fact that once a fence is allowed then the entire restriction is no longer enforceable. [QUOTE]

I get your point, Trish. And in theory, I agree. But I'm just saying there are so darn many things that people complain about. Everything from people putting out garbage on the wrong day to people having grandchildren visit for more than 30 days. When I ride my bike through different neighborhoods, I have actually seen red driveways, houses that have properties that are completely rocked, and lawn ornaments galore (south of 466). Visible things that make me say Yikes!

I think there are a heck of a lot of infractions of community restrictions. And of course none of us want that. But we also don't want to be on the phone every day complaining about a neighbor.

Bottom line ... I think you have to choose your battles wisely, issues that you find really offensive or cause safety issues. A fence that can't be seen seems to be at the bottom of the list.

Hi Barefoot:

I understand your point but it seems what gets lost by some folks is that those complainers serve an important function. If everyone simply accepted at face value other people's actions then this development would go to hell in a hand basket.

I agree with your live and let live philosophy but only if it doesn't infringe on others. Boogie Shooter is spot on rules are rules. People like me signed up here because we liked rules.

I lived in an area with little if any rules and it resulted in a high wood fence being pushed up against a chain link fence

If people want to continue bragging about the beauty of The villages they may want to take time once and a while and thank the complainers.

Personal Best Regards

[Golfingnut]

The rules are there for a reason - to keep the Villages looking good. The rules are not there "just to be rules". If the fence cannot be seen, and I'm assuming it must be something the neighbors needed and serves a purpose, the dogs are not bothering anyone, why would anyone complain. You'll create bad feelings with your neighbor. Why worry about an invisible fence particularly if it doesn't hurt anyone and one wouldn't even know it was there had they not seen it going up.

Very sensible post. Assuming the reason for no fence is to protect the look of the neighborhood as originally designed. Then take into account that you cannot see the fence from the street, it is a animal protection device that is only seen by the owner.

No brainier to me. Amend the rules to allow them under these circumstances.

[Country Dreamer]

"If I buy here I will have to decide courtyard villa with only a 1 and a half garage or no privacy because no fences."

There are courtyard villas with 2 car garages, some with extended 2 car garages. May be a bit rarer to find, but they do exist. And if you buy an end unit courtyard villa with enough room to the side street, you are allowed to add a garage addition.

[Halibut]

When I ride my bike through different neighborhoods, I have actually seen red driveways, houses that have properties that are completely rocked, and lawn ornaments galore (south of 466). Visible things that make me say Yikes!
In passing, the historic district doesn't have the same deed restrictions as other areas. Nothing in mine about lawn ornaments or seasonal decorations, for example.

[Bogie Shooter]

Community Standards

MISSION

To assist residents in upholding the aesthetic value of their property in The Villages.

The Community Standards Department is committed to upholding the high standards of our community’s residential architectural design, landscaping and aesthetics. The department has two divisions: Deed Compliance and Architectural Review.

You have chosen to live in a community protected by Restrictive Covenants. The Declaration of Restrictions was issued to you at the closing on your home. It was at that time you signed a covenant with the Developer to comply with the Restrictive Covenants. We urge all homeowners to read their Restrictive Covenants.

Concerns about possible deed restriction violations may be provided to the Community Standards Deed Compliance Division by phone, fax, mail, electronic mail, or in person and may be made anonymously. The Community Standards Deed Compliance Division is entirely complaint driven.

[baustgen]

Yea Bogie

[justjim]

Community Standards

MISSION

To assist residents in upholding the aesthetic value of their property in The Villages.

The Community Standards Department is committed to upholding the high standards of our community’s residential architectural design, landscaping and aesthetics. The department has two divisions: Deed Compliance and Architectural Review.

You have chosen to live in a community protected by Restrictive Covenants. The Declaration of Restrictions was issued to you at the closing on your home. It was at that time you signed a covenant with the Developer to comply with the Restrictive Covenants. We urge all homeowners to read their Restrictive Covenants.

Concerns about possible deed restriction violations may be provided to the Community Standards Deed Compliance Division by phone, fax, mail, electronic mail, or in person and may be made anonymously. The Community Standards Deed Compliance Division is entirely complaint driven.

So let it be written, So let it be done. Restrictions help keep our property values up and generally benefit everyone in the neighborhood.

However, there are "holes" in most all Covenants. For example. You can't park your 38' Motorhome in your driveway except for a brief time BUT you "might" be able to park it on the street for weeks at a time. You "might" also paint your house a bright purple, green or orange color that you like but your neighbors think it reduces their property values. These are rare but they do and have happen in TV. A little fence might seem rather small "stuff" compared to a 38' Motorhome or a purple colored house next door.

Overall, TV is a great place to live and the Covenants help to keep it that way. 99% of our neighbors in TV feel the same.

[JP]

From what I have seen in past neighborhoods I have lived in that relaxed their deed restrictions, one little fence soon became lots of little fences that soon became bigger fences that soon became small storage buildings that became bigger storage buildings that soon.....

You get the point. People will push the envelope and other people that see nothing happening to them will push the envelope etc.

Nip it in the bud before it escalates.

TV is as beautiful as it is because of deed restrictions.

[shcisamax]

" I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.



Now THAT is reasonable.

[shcisamax]

How many people have landscaped in their back yard where the electric box is and not respected the 10 foot MANDATORY distance from the box? How many people do not obey the road signs? How many people do this and that which are not the rules...be sensible. If you can't see the fence, why is it an issue?

[jblum315]

Seems to me, if they went to all the trouble and expense of making it look like a hedge, and if it does look like a hedge, why not just leave it alone. It doesn't look like a fence, it isn't a 6-foot "spite fence," and it keeps their dogs from pooping on your lawn.:shrug:

[Bogie Shooter]

How many people have landscaped in their back yard where the electric box is and not respected the 10 foot MANDATORY distance from the box? How many people do not obey the road signs? How many people do this and that which are not the rules...be sensible. If you can't see the fence, why is it an issue?

Seems to me, if they went to all the trouble and expense of making it look like a hedge, and if it does look like a hedge, why not just leave it alone. It doesn't look like a fence, it isn't a 6-foot "spite fence," and it keeps their dogs from pooping on your lawn.:shrug:

Have you read any of the previous posts??

[SoccerCoach]

No fences!
Rules are rules.

I can see both sides of this post, but I side with Bogie. Rules are Rules, Laws are Laws. An ever present example is the posted speed limit signs. EVERYONE KNOWS the limit. The signs are constant reminders.

[rdhdleo]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.

Well said, after all aren't there more important things happening in the world? Seriously!

[Peachie]

I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

Has anyone noticed the OP states he SAW the fences which they were trying to screen with bushes? Has anyone living in The Villages seen the perfect 4 1/2' shrub hedge that was static? Hedges grow, die, become woody and so forth. The owners of these pets have options; buy a courtyard villa, put in the underground fencing system or put an addition on their house.

I imagine that if one was in a pet store with one's dog and the dog managed to eat a pricier treat out of a display and no one was watching or caught it but the owner of the dog, what's the harm? The loss will be amortized over all the stores so let 'em eat.

Maybe this is the downfall of our country, every line is fudged now... no right or wrong. Whatever... right? Are there any laws, ordinances, restrictions that we really need to follow? :loco:

[downeaster]

I do not understand why people have a problem with the restrictions and their enforcement. They are there to protect, not punish. They are a friend, not an enemy.

This thread, and the many similar threads in the past, indicate the need for enforcement. There are a lot of people who have expressed their willingness to disregard and/or encourage others to disregard the restrictions.

[livsea2]

For those who wish to pick and choose which deed restrictions you wish to follow, allow me to caution you. (For example it is okay to allow a fence because I can't see it and besides I am a dog lover so anything to benefits dogs is okay...) Once to decide to not enforce a deed restriction you compromise your privilege to enforce any. That is the law of the land backed up by many legal precedents. Sorry but if you fail to enforce ANY deed restriction I can put a pool in my front yard right next to your house and if you try to stop me I will sue you and I will win because I can show the court that your enforcement is arbitrary! You loose. So either ALL restrictions are enforced ALL of the time or we have no deed restrictions to enforce. That is the law.

[graciegirl]

I am a first born. An only child raised by older grandparents. A Catholic.


I can't help myself. I can't be against rules. Not to say I haven't broken any but I always feel bad.


I have other nicer traits.


I can cook.

Old people, little kids and drunks seem to like me.


I like deed restrictions.:wave:

[angiefox10]

Thread about small dog fence, for the dog to poop, that you can't see..... Today!

Or..... Dog poop Thread............ Tomorrow!

Turn them in.... Don't turn them in....

I, for one, prefer the small fence you can't see. If you can't see it... it certainly isn't marring the aesthetics of the hood.

But.... It's your choice!

Just so you know... I have neither.....

I would only ask, not that it matters, that you not turn someone in if you don't live in that neighborhood. Those neighbors may prefer the fence you can't see to the poop in their yard. I know I do.

[njbchbum]

Well said, after all aren't there more important things happening in the world? Seriously!

Perhaps it is the elitist attitude of some that only select rules apply to them rather than all of the rules that lies at the bottom of what is perceived as the "more important things happening in the world"?

[Barefoot]

.... we all have an OBLIGATION to see that the restrictions are enforced up to and including litigation. MAKE THE CALL.

Of course we all want to live in beautiful neighborhoods. Without a doubt, we all want our property values to increase. Certainly we'd like to have a perfect world where everyone follows every deed restriction.

My only point is that there are many infractions of restrictions. In most Villages, if you take a bike ride for a mile or two, there are violations visible from the road (not like a fence that you can't see buried in a hedge in a back yard). Does our responsibility extend to calling to complain about violations, even if they're occurring outside of our neighborhood?

Two examples in a Village close to us are (1) a red driveway, and a lot of matching red lawn ornaments, not Christmas decorations, and (2) a property that is completely rocked (which actually looks very nice). These are obvious violations that are visible from the street. It doesn't seem to bother the immediate neighbors as the properties have been this way for years. So is it my responsibility to report them?

Life is short and sweet. I don't feel I have any obligation to make a call to see that restrictions are enforced ... unless it is about a safety issue. Or an obvious eyesore on my street. If my neighbors mounted a stuffed moose on the front lawn wearing yellow goggles, I might not like it. But even then, I think I'd have a gentle talk to the neighbor rather than calling the complaint police.

[mrsanborn]

What are the addresses of the supposed code violators or is this just a fishing expedition?

[zcaveman]

I believe that the deed restrictions are there to make TV a better place. If you see a violation, call or email the infraction into the Deed Restriction people and let them do their job.

Just make sure that you explain what the problem is and not just say they put in a fence - or whatever the problem is.

On one violation, it took me three e-mails before I gave them enough information to address the problem and got it fixed.

The system works.

Z

[casita37]

When we first starting looking at The Villages we had two dogs, so they were a priority as we looked at different properties. We had the fence conversation with the sales rep, as I stated earlier. One of the points he made to us about fences was actually that they did not want to encourage a lot of outside dogs. Now, I have no idea if that was an official stand or just his interpretation, but it makes sense. Dogs can make a mess of the yard and be a nuisance to the neighbors. It's not just about how the fence looks.

Nobody forced anyone to move into a community with restrictions. I'm with Gracie....I don't like to break rules. I'll say again. I just don't get moving into TV and then thinking it's OK to break the rules you don't like.

[cquick]

I am a first born. An only child raised by older grandparents. A Catholic.I can't help myself. I can't be against rules. Not to say I haven't broken any but
I like deed restrictions.:wave:

I am also first born (but not Catholic), and I moved to The Villages BECAUSE there are deed restrictions. I lived in Hunter's Creek, just south of Orlando for 11 years, and we had a very strict Architectural review board. There was a person who drove around and you got a letter if your fence was the wrong type or if you had yard stuff in your front yard, or if your house was painted the wrong color. believe me, tickets were given for people parking in the street for over 6 hours, too.

If we didn't have deed restrictions, we'd have semi trucks parked in people's driveways all the time!

[Bogie Shooter]

Of course we all want to live in beautiful neighborhoods. Without a doubt, we all want our property values to increase. Certainly we'd like to have a perfect world where everyone follows every deed restriction.

My only point is that there are many infractions of restrictions. In most Villages, if you take a bike ride for a mile or two, there are violations visible from the road (not like a fence that you can't see buried in a hedge in a back yard). Does our responsibility extend to calling to complain about violations, even if they're occurring outside of our neighborhood?

Two examples in a Village close to us are (1) a red driveway, and a lot of matching red lawn ornaments, not Christmas decorations, and (2) a property that is completely rocked (which actually looks very nice). These are obvious violations that are visible from the street. It doesn't seem to bother the immediate neighbors as the properties have been this way for years. So is it my responsibility to report them?

Life is short and sweet. I don't feel I have any obligation to make a call to see that restrictions are enforced ... unless it is about a safety issue. Or an obvious eyesore on my street. If my neighbors mounted a stuffed moose on the front lawn wearing yellow goggles, I might not like it. But even then, I think I'd have a gentle talk to the neighbor rather than calling the complaint police.

In who's opinion?

[OldManTime]

I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

They are not allowed, call Deed Compliance

[casita37]

They are not allowed, call Deed Compliance

Welcome to the thread....LOL

Sorry, no of"fence" meant...couldn't resist. :)

[rubicon]

Throughout this thread posters have been taking it upon themselves to define the rules. Clearly the Deed Compliance, etc are the only ones to decide because that is what we agreed to do when we signed on.

The other issue is what I categorized as Ï ain't no rat." Well let me tell you I had a neighbor who let his dog run lose and his dog loved my lawn. Despite three calls to animal control and dozens upon dozens of unwanted mines being shoveled back over to his the dog continued. My point is people who believe they have that right won't stop unless they are legally forced to do so. Perhaps it will take some guy that paints his house lime green with purple polka dots to get some resident's engine going?

Clearly the guy with the hidden fence that apparently is not so hidden needs to be reported to Deed Compliance et al.

[Barefoot]

Life is short and sweet. I don't feel I have any obligation to make a call to see that restrictions are enforced ... unless it is about a safety issue. Or an obvious eyesore on my street. If my neighbors mounted a stuffed moose on the front lawn wearing yellow goggles, I might not like it. But even then, I think I'd have a gentle talk to the neighbor rather than calling the complaint police.

In who's opinion?

Bogie, ummm, since I'm writing the post, I guess it would be in my opinion. And I'm talking about something big and ugly, ... I'm not talking about a sandhill crane sculpture or a turned over pot as part of the landscaping. Many people have those.

If I were bothered by what I consider an eyesore on the front lawn next door, I would personally have a gentle talk to my neighbor. And if he didn't remove it, I would live with it. I guess I lack testosterone.

[rdhdleo]

Bogie, ummm, since I'm writing the post, I guess it would be in my opinion. And I'm talking about something big and ugly, ... I'm not talking about a sandhill crane sculpture or a turned over pot as part of the landscaping. Many people have those.

If I were bothered by what I consider an eyesore on the front lawn next door, I would personally have a gentle talk to my neighbor. And if he didn't remove it, I would live with it. I guess I lack testosterone.


:BigApplause:

[zcaveman]

Bogie, ummm, since I'm writing the post, I guess it would be in my opinion. And I'm talking about something big and ugly, ... I'm not talking about a sandhill crane sculpture or a turned over pot as part of the landscaping. Many people have those.

If I were bothered by what I consider an eyesore on the front lawn next door, I would personally have a gentle talk to my neighbor. And if he didn't remove it, I would live with it. I guess I lack testosterone.

I would not live with it. That is what deed restrictions are for.

Z

[rubicon]

My wife and I would have never considered Florida but for The Villages enforcement of rules. Many areas in the south have little if any ordinances and the surrounding area mirrors that fact.

So it is clear there is no sense of having rules if tey are not followed or enforced.

[CFrance]

Thread about small dog fence, for the dog to poop, that you can't see..... Today!

Or..... Dog poop Thread............ Tomorrow!

Turn them in.... Don't turn them in....

I, for one, prefer the small fence you can't see. If you can't see it... it certainly isn't marring the aesthetics of the hood.

But.... It's your choice!

Just so you know... I have neither.....

I would only ask, not that it matters, that you not turn someone in if you don't live in that neighborhood. Those neighbors may prefer the fence you can't see to the poop in their yard. I know I do.

I wouldn't call a four-foot-high wire fence exactly "small." And not invisible either, since the OP can see it. It doesn't sound attractive at all to me--I'm thinking chain link fence--and I would be very upset if that fence were next to my yard.

[downeaster]

For those who wish to pick and choose which deed restrictions you wish to follow, allow me to caution you. (For example it is okay to allow a fence because I can't see it and besides I am a dog lover so anything to benefits dogs is okay...) Once to decide to not enforce a deed restriction you compromise your privilege to enforce any. That is the law of the land backed up by many legal precedents. Sorry but if you fail to enforce ANY deed restriction I can put a pool in my front yard right next to your house and if you try to stop me I will sue you and I will win because I can show the court that your enforcement is arbitrary! You loose. So either ALL restrictions are enforced ALL of the time or we have no deed restrictions to enforce. That is the law.

Livsea2 makes a very valid point. I actually saw this happen in another Florida community.

[Bogie Shooter]

Bogie, ummm, since I'm writing the post, I guess it would be in my opinion. And I'm talking about something big and ugly, ... I'm not talking about a sandhill crane sculpture or a turned over pot as part of the landscaping. Many people have those.

If I were bothered by what I consider an eyesore on the front lawn next door, I would personally have a gentle talk to my neighbor. And if he didn't remove it, I would live with it. I guess I lack testosterone.

You would then be conceding that there are no deed restrictions.

[downeaster]

My wife and I would have never considered Florida but for The Villages enforcement of rules. Many areas in the south have little if any ordinances and the surrounding area mirrors that fact.
So it is clear there is no sense of having rules if tey are not followed or enforced.

Me too. Selective enforcement in my former sub division was a cause of moving out and The Villages enforcement policies was a big factor in moving here.

Not only do a lot of areas have no deed restrictions, many of those that do do not enforce them. See post# 50 for the consequences of selective enforcement.

[Challenger]

Me too. Selective enforcement in my former sub division was a cause of moving out and The Villages enforcement policies was a big factor in moving here.

Not only do a lot of areas have no deed restrictions, many of those that do do not enforce them. See post# 50 for the consequences of selective enforcement.

Deed restrictions today, Deed restrictions tomorrow, Deed restrictions forever. - I would never have moved to any Florida location that had weak deed restrictions.

I will be strong on enforcement. Exceptions lead down a very slippery slope . No, my attitude is not unamerican, quite the contrary. This is a country where the rule of law reigns and where valid contracts are enforceable.This principle differentuates us from most of the rest of the world. I, for one, would have it no other way.

[Stdole]

I have reported several violations to The Village authorities that are in direct violation of our rules... I have found out (sadly) save your time and dime! Don't rock the boat!! They come out at times and see the violations... speak with the violators and no more is known or done about it... Come on Authorities get with the program or let someone else have your job..!! The next time I call someone out... the Morse family will also get a copy of the report!!

[DonH57]

When it comes to all this talk of deed restrictions I often read these posts and wonder how many people actually know their restrictions before picking up the phone and reporting violations preventing a waste of resources and expecting a result. I also read a lot of childlike behavior in these threads.The very first thing I would certainlycertainly do before turning my neighbor in would be to verify I'm right and even then I would directly let my neighbor know there could be a problem before making a phone call. My first responsibility as a neighbor is to look out for others rather than kicking them in the pants.

[Carl in Tampa]

For those who wish to pick and choose which deed restrictions you wish to follow, allow me to caution you. (For example it is okay to allow a fence because I can't see it and besides I am a dog lover so anything to benefits dogs is okay...) Once to decide to not enforce a deed restriction you compromise your privilege to enforce any. That is the law of the land backed up by many legal precedents. Sorry but if you fail to enforce ANY deed restriction I can put a pool in my front yard right next to your house and if you try to stop me I will sue you and I will win because I can show the court that your enforcement is arbitrary! You loose. So either ALL restrictions are enforced ALL of the time or we have no deed restrictions to enforce. That is the law.

Yep. My homeowner's association leadership in Tampa pushed through some rules changes in what I considered an illegal manner. At the meeting I tried to point this out and the moderator shouted me down. The moderator also assured his neighbor across the street who parked a small boat in his side yard that the new rule against that wouldn't be enforced because the moderator wouldn't complain.

During the next few days I went through the neighborhood photographing a variety of rules violations for possible future use in proving arbitrary enforcement. Including, especially, the small boat in the side yard.

:boxing2:

[mickey100]

When it comes to all this talk of deed restrictions I often read these posts and wonder how many people actually know their restrictions before picking up the phone and reporting violations preventing a waste of resources and expecting a result. I also read a lot of childlike behavior in these threads.The very first thing I would certainlycertainly do before turning my neighbor in would be to verify I'm right and even then I would directly let my neighbor know there could be a problem before making a phone call. My first responsibility as a neighbor is to look out for others rather than kicking them in the pants.

You sound like a good neighbor. Hopefully there are many more like you.

:mademyday:

[nitehawk]

Be careful --- when rules are ignored it become - "Past Practice" - a very powerful tool

[shcisamax]

You sound like a good neighbor. Hopefully there are many more like you.

:mademyday:

Truly.

[Peachie]

Be careful --- when rules are ignored it become - "Past Practice" - a very powerful tool

Exactly! :clap2:

[Barefoot]

When it comes to all this talk of deed restrictions I often read these posts and wonder how many people actually know their restrictions before picking up the phone and reporting violations preventing a waste of resources and expecting a result. I also read a lot of childlike behavior in these threads.The very first thing I would certainlycertainly do before turning my neighbor in would be to verify I'm right and even then I would directly let my neighbor know there could be a problem before making a phone call. My first responsibility as a neighbor is to look out for others rather than kicking them in the pants.

I agree with your suggestion of talking to a neighbor before calling authorities to complain.

[Peachie]

[/B]

I agree with your suggestion of talking to a neighbor before calling authorities to complain.

Bare, I think it may be better to make the anonymous call to report the situation than to approach your neighbor.

If the neighbor will not comply after a discussion with said neighbor, the neighbor will definitely know who reported the breach and this would cause more tension. An anonymous report could come from anybody including the Village Watch. The person trying to sneak something past everyone wouldn't know who to blame.

[Barefoot]

Bare, I think it may be better to make the anonymous call to report the situation than to approach your neighbor.

I hear what you're saying Peachie. And that might be an easier way to proceed. But with friends or spouses or neighbors, if there's a problem, I think it's best to first try a gentle conversation. I think a lot of residents haven't read the deed restrictions and have no idea that they're offending.

From reading questions posed on TOTV by Newbies who have recently bought houses, it's obvious that many don't understand "the rules". I had a conversation last night with long-time residents who couldn't agree on the rules for seasonal decorations and/or lawn ornaments. I think a little discussion can go a long way in resolving perceived restriction infractions.

[njbchbum]

Does anyone really think that a pleasant conversation with the neighbor who has "planted" a fence and shrubbery with which to hide it - or has in any other way violated deed restrictions - is going to gracefully receive that conversation and rip out the fence/hedge/correct their violation? The anonymous call that gets a visit from the authority and introduction to potential penalty is likely to get corrective action.

[I always felt that a smallish red sign - like lawn treatment signs - indicating that the property has however many days to resolve an infraction is more effective than anything written into deed restrictions/covenants!]

[BobnBev]

No fences!
Rules are rules.

In a perfect world.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Barefoot]

Does anyone really think that a pleasant conversation with the neighbor who has "planted" a fence and shrubbery with which to hide it - or has in any other way violated deed restrictions - is going to gracefully receive that conversation ......

I guess I'm naive enough to think that a gentle conversation is preferable to calling authorities. For instance, I recently talked to a woman who was letting her cat roam the neighborhood, and people were upset about it. I suggested to her that it was against restrictions, that it wasn't a safe environment for cats to be outside, and that I have personally seen a coyote in the area. She welcomed my suggestion and is now keeping her cat indoors.

If you start off a conversation by being pleasant and trying to be helpful, rather than highly indignant, I think things can usually be worked out. I realize many (perhaps most) don't share this opinion and would prefer to call authorities. Each to his own.

Peace be with you all.

[CFrance]

I guess I'm naive enough to think that a gentle conversation is preferable to calling authorities. For instance, I recently talked to a woman who was letting her cat roam the neighborhood, and people were upset about it. I suggested to her that it was against restrictions, that it wasn't a safe environment for cats to be outside, and that I have personally seen a coyote in the area. She welcomed my suggestion and is now keeping her cat indoors.

If you start off a conversation by being pleasant and trying to be helpful, rather than highly indignant, I think things can usually be worked out. I realize many (perhaps most) don't share this opinion and would prefer to call authorities. Each to his own.

Peace be with you all.

I agree with you as far as your example is concerned, Bare, but I have to agree with njbchbum that a person who would go to the expense of erecting a four-foot-high illegal fence is probably a natural-born rule-breaker and is not going to take it down just because a neighbor complains to him.

I can see your neighbor seeing the light because of the coyotes. But this tall fence is such a flagrant violation of the rules. If it bothers the OP, I think the best route is an anonymous complaint so this arrogant person won't know who caused him to waste so much money.:MOJE_whot:

[Barefoot]

The bushes are on the outside of the fence. if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there.


If it bothers the OP, I think the best route is an anonymous complaint .....

CFrance ... my point has always been that it isn't bothering the OP because he can't even see it! And that The Villages is full of restriction infractions, so you have to pick the serious ones before you call authorities. I will always believe that talking things out is a better way to go.

However, I do understand the point that many people feel it's the "tip of the iceberg" and that turning a "blind eye" to one violation will possibly open the floodgates to more deviations. And that offenders should be punished and authorities should be notified.

Just different ways of looking at things, just like gas versus electric golf carts.
Seasons Greetings to you all.

[mickey100]

Since the fence is invisible, and probably the only one to see it going up was one of the immediate neighbors, the property owner would have a pretty good idea who to blame. If my neighbor did something that bothered me, I believe the right tack would be to discuss it with him directly in a nice way, not go behind his/her back and let the "authorities" take care of it. To me, that seems impersonal, and kind of sneaky. If my neighbors did that, I wouldn't think too highly of them.

[DonH57]

Since the fence is invisible, and probably the only one to see it going up was one of the immediate neighbors, the property owner would have a pretty good idea who to blame. If my neighbor did something that bothered me, I believe the right tack would be to discuss it with him directly in a nice way, not go behind his/her back and let the "authorities" take care of it. To me, that seems impersonal, and kind of sneaky. If my neighbors did that, I wouldn't think too highly of them.

I feel the same way Mickey. I would much rather have a neighbor knock on my door and give me notice something I did was wrong or was unsafe than not say anything. I would do it for them. I'm very untrusting of others who possess a anti social mindset.

[Peachie]

Since the fence is invisible, and probably the only one to see it going up was one of the immediate neighbors, the property owner would have a pretty good idea who to blame. If my neighbor did something that bothered me, I believe the right tack would be to discuss it with him directly in a nice way, not go behind his/her back and let the "authorities" take care of it. To me, that seems impersonal, and kind of sneaky. If my neighbors did that, I wouldn't think too highly of them.


LOL, would that be sneakier than the resident trying put up a fence and hide it with bushes? They know the rules or they wouldn't be trying to hide the fence in the first place and the OP stated he COULD SEE the fence and the people who had installed it were trying to hide it with bushes. I wouldn't think highly of those neighbors at all.

Bare, I think the woman was probably concerned about the coyotes getting her cat or it would still be roaming. Gentle conversation seldom sways entitlement thinking but it doesn't hurt to try as long as one is prepared to have the, first admonished and then reported, neighbor angry and not on speaking terms for the remainder. :icon_wink:

[Happydaz]

My view is that the neighbor knew the fence was not allowed and that is why they tried to hide it in the bushes the best they could. If the OP thinks it shouldn't be there then they should anonymously contact the authorities. The neighbor may find that a real "Invisible dog fence" would work well. You all probably have seen these, where a dog wears a collar that administers a shock if the dog goes beyond the property borders.

[CFrance]

LOL, would that be sneakier than the resident trying put up a fence and hide it with bushes? They know the rules or they wouldn't be trying to hide the fence in the first place and the OP stated he COULD SEE the fence and the people who had installed it were trying to hide it with bushes. I wouldn't think highly of those neighbors at all.

Bare, I think the woman was probably concerned about the coyotes getting her cat or it would still be roaming. Gentle conversation seldom sways entitlement thinking but it doesn't hurt to try as long as one is prepared to have the, first admonished and then reported, neighbor angry and not on speaking terms for the remainder. :icon_wink:

This is what I have been trying to say. But different strokes for different folks. We will all handle things the way in which we believe will cause the least stress in the neighborhood, and for me that would be anonymously.

I really don't believe someone would tear down an expensive fence if asked by a neighbor.

[janmcn]

If enforcement of deed retrictions is such an issue, take your concerns to your next district meeting and present your views and ask for a discussion.

Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.

In most deed restricted communities, letters are sent to the owner with a notice of the violations and with a time limit within which to correct the violation. Otherwise the community does the correction and bills the homeowner.

[e-flyer]

My view is that the neighbor knew the fence was not allowed and that is why they tried to hide it in the bushes the best they could. If the OP thinks it shouldn't be there then they should anonymously contact the authorities. The neighbor may find that a real "Invisible dog fence" would work well. You all probably have seen these, where a dog wears a collar that administers a shock if the dog goes beyond the property borders.

I'm not crazy about invisible fences here in TV, we have had two episodes when walking out our dog, that dogs coming from out of nowhere, charging at us in a loud (barking) and aggressive manner that scared the crap out. We thought they were going to attack us/ our dog, until they stopped just short of the road. We didn't see any signs or flags to indicate or warn us that there was an invisible fence and dogs on the loose. They may serve a purpose to keep the dog from getting out of the yard, or hit by a car, but there should be limits on how far from the road or sidewalk during installation. I for one would prefer a real fence farther back that was obscured by landscaping, but I know we have rules here for a reason that we all agreed to, so unfortunately the fence should go.

[Peachie]

[QUOTE=janmcn;800119]
Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.



janmcn, Or this could be phrased... "Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on the forum who would be so selfish as to feel deed restrictions don't apply to them and to heck with their neighbors, much like the lovely homesites around the country that have the perpetual car or truck up on blocks."

You can't have it both ways. If deed restrictions bother one, one should look at the surrounding counties. Why the devil do people move here and then whine about or sneak around the deed restrictions? So many communities have no deed restrictions and their pets can do what ever they darn well please and no one will give them grief.

[janmcn]

[QUOTE=janmcn;800119]
Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.



janmcn, Or this could be phrased... "Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on the forum who would be so selfish as to feel deed restrictions don't apply to them and to heck with their neighbors, much like the lovely homesites around the country that have the perpetual car or truck up on blocks."

You can't have it both ways. If deed restrictions bother one, one should look at the surrounding counties. Why the devil do people move here and then whine about or sneak around the deed restrictions? So many communities have no deed restrictions and their pets can do what ever they darn well please and no one will give them grief.



Residents might get better results if they took their complaints to their elected representatives in each district, people who can actually address their concerns, as opposed to hashing it over and over on this forum.

[Peachie]

[quote=Peachie;800140]



Residents might get better results if they took their complaints to their elected representatives in each district, people who can actually address their concerns, as opposed to hashing it over and over on this forum.

I totally agree.

[KEVIN & JOSIE]

I'm glad to see that The Villages landscapes new homes within the restrictions. When I buy, and the landscape is green and alive, it will stay that way until I die. I just don't get real excited about shrubs and grass. Enjoying the lifestyle that The Villages offers is more important to me. Ain't got no time to worry about shrubs or neighbors silly! :laugh:

[DonH57]

[quote=janmcn;800144]

I totally agree.

I agree 100 percent.

[DonH57]

I'm not crazy about invisible fences here in TV, we have had two episodes when walking out our dog, that dogs coming from out of nowhere, charging at us in a loud (barking) and aggressive manner that scared the crap out. We thought they were going to attack us/ our dog, until they stopped just short of the road. We didn't see any signs or flags to indicate or warn us that there was an invisible fence and dogs on the loose. They may serve a purpose to keep the dog from getting out of the yard, or hit by a car, but there should be limits on how far from the road or sidewalk during installation. I for one would prefer a real fence farther back that was obscured by landscaping, but I know we have rules here for a reason that we all agreed to, so unfortunately the fence should go.

As a user of the invisible fence for dogs I have to say that part of the problem is you cannot post on your yard that you have it to let others know. These signs are available and are only 5x7 inches and green with black lettering but not allowed in TV. My dog will sometimes run out when startled by people and other dogs. I'm also outside with them and let people know we have the system. Our neighbors are appreciative we have the fence and him. Unfortunately it's irresponsible dog owners to blame for the dog's behavior.

[Barefoot]

Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.

I'm not sure if you're kidding about this idea. I have a feeling there are a lot of residents who wouldn't be very comfortable with the idea of "Volunteer Enforcers" having the authority to go into their back yards! :eek:

[Barefoot]

I'm not crazy about invisible fences here in TV, we have had two episodes when walking out our dog, that dogs coming from out of nowhere, charging at us in a loud (barking) and aggressive manner that scared the crap out. We thought they were going to attack us/ our dog, until they stopped just short of the road.

I've had that happen as well and I agree that it's unsettling. We have underground invisible fencing for our dogs but we only use it on the back lawn.

[Peachie]

I'm not sure if you're kidding about this idea. I have a feeling there are a lot of residents who wouldn't be very comfortable with the idea of "Volunteer Enforcers" having the authority to go into their back yards! :eek:

Bare, I believe Jan was being facetious. That's why I responded with this earlier post:


[QUOTE=janmcn;800119]
Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.



janmcn, Or this could be phrased... "Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on the forum who would be so selfish as to feel deed restrictions don't apply to them and to heck with their neighbors, much like the lovely homesites around the country that have the perpetual car or truck up on blocks."

You can't have it both ways. If deed restrictions bother one, one should look at the surrounding counties. Why the devil do people move here and then whine about or sneak around the deed restrictions? So many communities have no deed restrictions and their pets can do what ever they darn well please and no one will give them grief.



In the end, we all agreed, it is best to report to the authorities when there are issues. There are so many wonderful dogs owners, such as yourself, that wouldn't think of sneaking around the restrictions. It just takes a few to cause problems.

Peace to you this holiday season.

A little afterthought... do people put other pets in harms way when they attempt to kennel their dogs in their yards? Does this attract coyotes, alligators to the area even though they may not be able to penetrate the fenced area?

[njbchbum]

I'm not crazy about invisible fences here in TV, we have had two episodes when walking out our dog, that dogs coming from out of nowhere, charging at us in a loud (barking) and aggressive manner that scared the crap out. We thought they were going to attack us/ our dog, until they stopped just short of the road. We didn't see any signs or flags to indicate or warn us that there was an invisible fence and dogs on the loose. They may serve a purpose to keep the dog from getting out of the yard, or hit by a car, but there should be limits on how far from the road or sidewalk during installation. I for one would prefer a real fence farther back that was obscured by landscaping, but I know we have rules here for a reason that we all agreed to, so unfortunately the fence should go.

Dogs charging out of nowhere sounds to me like a violation of the rule that says pets must be on a leash when outside of the home! But that would be a topic for another thread! ;)

[Bogie Shooter]

If enforcement of deed retrictions is such an issue, take your concerns to your next district meeting and present your views and ask for a discussion.

Perhaps each district could establish a deed enforcement team. It seems there are enough posters on this forum who would be willing to volunteer to drive through their neighborhoods handing out tickets, much like meter maids.

In most deed restricted communities, letters are sent to the owner with a notice of the violations and with a time limit within which to correct the violation. Otherwise the community does the correction and bills the homeowner.

Here is the site where you can read how it is handled in TV;
http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Community-Standards/images/compliance-standards/District8_Rules.pdf

I am assuming your second paragraph was said with tongue-in-cheek, right?

[Bogie Shooter]

[quote=Peachie;800140]



Residents might get better results if they took their complaints to their elected representatives in each district, people who can actually address their concerns, as opposed to hashing it over and over on this forum.

There are already procedures in place to handle violations.......that's what these elected representatives will direct your complaint.

[BobnBev]

I'm not sure if you're kidding about this idea. I have a feeling there are a lot of residents who wouldn't be very comfortable with the idea of "Volunteer Enforcers" having the authority to go into their back yards! :eek:

Maybe he Neighborhood Watch could buy some unmanned drones
to scout all the backyards from 100' up, and....awwww, nevermind.

[buggyone]

This has gone on and on for 11 pages now. Ridiculous!

Instead of posting on TOTV about an illegal fence (or one you think might be illegal but not sure), just call Deed Compliance at the main Villages number, ask them to come and check to see if it is legal or not.

I understand that residents South of 466 do that about lawn ornaments quite often.

[Challenger]

Ah! Lawn ornaments, that will get the juices flowing !!!

[mickey100]

I'm sorry, but this whole thread just seems way over the top to me. We're talking about a fence that is invisible, that does no harm to anyone, and since it can't be seen, does not hurt the aesthetics of the neighborhood in any way. I've always been of the opinion that if something doesn't hurt anyone it's no one else's business. Save the complaints for things that matter.

[travelguy]

I'm sorry, but this whole thread just seems way over the top to me. We're talking about a fence that is invisible, that does no harm to anyone, and since it can't be seen, does not hurt the aesthetics of the neighborhood in any way. I've always been of the opinion that if something doesn't hurt anyone it's no one else's business. Save the complaints for things that matter.

when we all bought into this community it was with the understanding that certain things were controlled/regulated and that the high standards established by the developer would be continued. therefore i do not understand why certain regulations should be ignored at this point; enforce them all. whether complaints are brought before deed compliance or not, it is their responsibility to enforce. enough said.

[graciegirl]

Stop. Drop it. Tell the Elves. You are NOT allowed to have fences, even hidden ones.


If someone does something that is deed restricted and has to remove it, AT an annoying expense, please do not come on and whine.


Merry Christmas.

[DougB]

I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

What's the addresses of these two houses?

[angiefox10]

We were driving through The Villages yesterday and I noticed that there were a lot of walls.... Maybe not fences... But walls... Walls around birdcages.. Walls as high as 8 ft... I'm not talking about knee walls... I'm talking about privacy walls! I think maybe when the deed restrictions indicate no fences maybe they are talking about no fences to border you property. Because clearly privacy walls aren't a problem. But what do I know.

Many of the birdcages are used as dog runs. They have not only been ARC approved but many are built by The Villages in the spec homes.

Since this does not cross any deed restriction lines... I'm guessing as long as it is a wall, even if you can see it... It's OK!

All these people are doing, is providing a place for their dogs to go to the bathroom. and by doing so, the dogs are not pooping in yours or my yards.

If it's in someone's back yard and I can't see it. I don't care. I LOVE deed restrictions as much as the next person. But I don't understand why someone would want to turn another person in for something they can't see and isn't near them.

I love living in The Villages... Where our biggest concern is someone with a dog pen in a place you can't see camouflaged by plants!

Life is good!

[mickey100]

We were driving through The Villages yesterday and I noticed that there were a lot of walls.... Maybe not fences... But walls... Walls around birdcages.. Walls as high as 8 ft... I'm not talking about knee walls... I'm talking about privacy walls! I think maybe when the deed restrictions indicate no fences maybe they are talking about no fences to border you property. Because clearly privacy walls aren't a problem. But what do I know.

Many of the birdcages are used as dog runs. They have not only been ARC approved but many are built by The Villages in the spec homes.

Since this does not cross any deed restriction lines... I'm guessing as long as it is a wall, even if you can see it... It's OK!

All these people are doing, is providing a place for their dogs to go to the bathroom. and by doing so, the dogs are not pooping in yours or my yards.

If it's in someone's back yard and I can't see it. I don't care. I LOVE deed restrictions as much as the next person. But I don't understand why someone would want to turn another person in for something they can't see and isn't near them.

I love living in The Villages... Where our biggest concern is someone with a dog pen in a place you can't see camouflaged by plants!

Life is good!

:bigbow:

[mickey100]

when we all bought into this community it was with the understanding that certain things were controlled/regulated and that the high standards established by the developer would be continued. therefore i do not understand why certain regulations should be ignored at this point; enforce them all. whether complaints are brought before deed compliance or not, it is their responsibility to enforce. enough said.

That is the point - the high standards of the developer are not at all being affected in this case. And that was the point of the rule. Enough said.

[Bogie Shooter]

We were driving through The Villages yesterday and I noticed that there were a lot of walls.... Maybe not fences... But walls... Walls around birdcages.. Walls as high as 8 ft... I'm not talking about knee walls... I'm talking about privacy walls! I think maybe when the deed restrictions indicate no fences maybe they are talking about no fences to border you property. Because clearly privacy walls aren't a problem. But what do I know.

Many of the birdcages are used as dog runs. They have not only been ARC approved but many are built by The Villages in the spec homes.

Since this does not cross any deed restriction lines... I'm guessing as long as it is a wall, even if you can see it... It's OK!

All these people are doing, is providing a place for their dogs to go to the bathroom. and by doing so, the dogs are not pooping in yours or my yards.

If it's in someone's back yard and I can't see it. I don't care. I LOVE deed restrictions as much as the next person. But I don't understand why someone would want to turn another person in for something they can't see and isn't near them.

I love living in The Villages... Where our biggest concern is someone with a dog pen in a place you can't see camouflaged by plants!

Life is good!

No, it will be the second and then the third and on and on........... dog pen!

[Bogie Shooter]

That is the point - the high standards of the developer are not at all being affected in this case. And that was the point of the rule. Enough said.

How will each case be handled hereafter?
Which rule are you referring to?

[graciegirl]

It is just that each person thinks that HIS deed restriction oopsy is small and not important.


We chose to live south of 466 where there are the MOST deed restrictions.


We bought our first home here seven years ago, went home and came back to our first snowbird season to find the new neighbors had moved in next door with 36 ( I counted) bend over ladies, home painted frogs, flamingos, pots of artificial flowers etc. Many of us new neighbors returned the same week. The next week the yard art was gone. SOMEONE was annoyed. I am not ashamed of liking deed restrictions.

[nitehawk]

Seems there is a lot of hostility against the "live and let live" group:BigApplause:

[gomoho]

I'm confused about this fence/shrub situation. How does it contain the dogs??? Does it have an entrance and exit or is this simply an area where the owners choose to potty their dogs and erected the fence to contain them and also to protect the neighbors's from having to view their dogs doing their business.

I for the life of me don't understand if it's a fence that can't be seen why it is even an issue??? And am still confused as to exactly what purpose it serves. Anyone???

[njbchbum]

I'm sorry, but this whole thread just seems way over the top to me. We're talking about a fence that is invisible, that does no harm to anyone, and since it can't be seen, does not hurt the aesthetics of the neighborhood in any way. I've always been of the opinion that if something doesn't hurt anyone it's no one else's business. Save the complaints for things that matter.

I think you are wrong, Mickey100 - the OP apparently DID see not one - but TWO - homes violating deed restrictions! So how INVISIBLE is that 4ft high wire fencing?

original post:
I have seen two homes that have put up 4ft high wire fencing and put bushes in front of the wire. Seems to be an area for their dogs. So can you put in a dog run, small fenced area if you hid it with bushes? Someone explain please??

I'm glad for all of the villagers who hold other opinions and who will make an anonymous complaint - hopefully that will stem situations from reaching what would be considered to be something that matters.

[DonH57]

I'm really doubting these two houses with the partially hidden fence even exists. No village or even the street mentioned. Cmon man......

[njbchbum]

I'm really doubting these two houses with the partially hidden fence even exists. No village or even the street mentioned. Cmon man......

Doubt, if you wish, but I can recall a posting here re a resident installing a fence [of shrubbery I think] between two yards for his dogs...and his neighbor politely advising him of the deed restrictions...and his rude response about having paid his $$ and going to do what he wanted!

[Bucco]

Doubt, if you wish, but I can recall a posting here re a resident installing a fence [of shrubbery I think] between two yards for his dogs...and his neighbor politely advising him of the deed restrictions...and his rude response about having paid his $$ and going to do what he wanted!

For what it's worth NJ, I support strongly support your perceived displeasure at those who feel above the rules, whether I see it or not.

[DonH57]

I do doubt some posts on this forum. Too much 3rd party hearsay to me. I'm still trying to figure out which doctors office in the villages I'm suppose to avoid from an earlier post. All I know is I'm happy with mine.

[graciegirl]

I'm confused about this fence/shrub situation. How does it contain the dogs??? Does it have an entrance and exit or is this simply an area where the owners choose to potty their dogs and erected the fence to contain them and also to protect the neighbors's from having to view their dogs doing their business.

I for the life of me don't understand if it's a fence that can't be seen why it is even an issue??? And am still confused as to exactly what purpose it serves. Anyone???



Gomoho, I know YOU know how I love dogs and furry friends. I think that a hidden fence could have a hidden difficulty. The hidden fence could allow the pups to stay out in it and miss their owners so much they bark a lot.


And for the live and let live....post, it isn't letting live and LET live if it is annoying someone. AND THAT is the REASON for deed restrictions.

[angiefox10]

Gomoho, I know YOU know how I love dogs and furry friends. I think that a hidden fence could have a hidden difficulty. The hidden fence could allow the pups to stay out in it and miss their owners so much they bark a lot.


And for the live and let live....post, it isn't letting live and LET live if it is annoying someone. AND THAT is the REASON for deed restrictions.

Ohhhhhh... I completely understand this thread now. It's about dogs being out side barking.... I absolutely agree!!! If a dog is locked out of a house and is barking all day! By all means. Call it in.

As for the small areas that I am aware of... There are doggie doors going out to the area so that dogs can come and go. The dogs I'm aware of that have this area... Are house dogs and no more interested in being outside than the man in the moon. So... For our hood. Problem solved!!!

According to the original post, the poster hasn't seen a dog in this "pen". Maybe it's for a grill or hiding something on the side of the house. You know... like everyone hides the green boxes.... I have a neighbor who has palms hiding their grill from view. Without seeing a dog. Do we really know that's what it's for?

As I said before... I think the answer is walls. That's clearly approved. Problem solved. Now... On to the holidays!!! And... You're Welcome!

[LndLocked]

I dog that constantly barks is a sure sign of a badly trained owner that has raised a badly trained dog.

[gpirate]

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see.

Live and let live.

Barefoot using common sense. Seems we have lost that in todays world with the fast pace and greed. Can't we all just get along?

[mickey100]

Originally Posted by Barefoot:

"My neighbor is playing the television on their lanai too loudly. Someone saved all the chairs and I couldn't find a seat at LSL. Today I was in a roundabout and there was a car stopped, and they were reading a map. My neighbors painted their garage door red. Someone at the adult pool is playing loud music."

If someone does something really offensive or causes a safety issue, then please complain if it really bothers you. I'm not sure why anyone would bother to complain about a fence they can't see. "

Live and let live. Barefoot using common sense. Seems we have lost that in todays world with the fast pace and greed. Can't we all just get along?

:agree:

[Barefoot]

I'm sorry, but this whole thread just seems way over the top to me. We're talking about a fence that is invisible, that does no harm to anyone, and since it can't be seen, does not hurt the aesthetics of the neighborhood in any way. I've always been of the opinion that if something doesn't hurt anyone it's no one else's business. Save the complaints for things that matter.
:bowdown:


We were driving through The Villages yesterday and I noticed that there were a lot of walls.... Maybe not fences... But walls... Walls around birdcages.. Walls as high as 8 ft... I'm not talking about knee walls... I'm talking about privacy walls! I think maybe when the deed restrictions indicate no fences maybe they are talking about no fences to border you property.

If it's in someone's back yard and I can't see it. I don't care. I LOVE deed restrictions as much as the next person. But I don't understand why someone would want to turn another person in for something they can't see and isn't near them.

:bowdown:

That is the point - the high standards of the developer are not at all being affected in this case. And that was the point of the rule. Enough said.

:bigbow:

We all love deed restrictions that keep The Villages beautiful and our property values high. However I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide if they want to tolerate a situation or call the Ambiance Police.

Driving around to spot violations and call authorities ..... sounds to me like Big Brother. :22yikes:

[mickey100]

I think you are wrong, Mickey100 - the OP apparently DID see not one - but TWO - homes violating deed restrictions! So how INVISIBLE is that 4ft high wire fencing?

original post:


I'm glad for all of the villagers who hold other opinions and who will make an anonymous complaint - hopefully that will stem situations from reaching what would be considered to be something that matters.

This was the OP's follow-up post: " The bushes are on the outside of the fence. if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there. Trying to make it an invisible fence I guess.."

The above was the post I have based my comments on.

[rubicon]

Apparently there seems to be a suspicion that beside a Deed violation there are other incentives?. Perhaps the fence is to keep his dog fenced in at the back yard? Again perhaps the fence is to keep people out?

Irrespective its construction required prior approval which appears would not have been granted. I am wondering why Community Watch has not noticed this violation? These rules were made for specific reasons and there has been nothing which indicates that they should be changed, ignored or removed. Quite to the contrary because of the great expansion here rules are even more important. I can't think of a quicker way to have your neighborhood go to pot then to have neighbors who ignore such violations with the intent that if X can have a fence then I can have...............

[Barefoot]

I am wondering why Community Watch has not noticed this violation?

I understand that Community Watch does drive through neighborhoods and check front lawns for overgrown weeds and flagrant violations.

I highly doubt Community Watch has the authority to go on people's private property and inspect their backyards!

[Peachie]

:bowdown:


:bowdown:



:bigbow:

We all love deed restrictions that keep The Villages beautiful and our property values high. However I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide if they want to tolerate a situation or call the Ambiance Police.

Driving around to spot violations and call authorities ..... sounds to me like Big Brother. :22yikes:

This OP started as a question: is it within deed restrictions to put up fences in your yard and try to hide them. NO IT IS NOT.

No one was talking about patrols running the neighborhood. If someone is out of compliance with the restrictions, you may report it. Don't let people try to demonize you for doing so because the whole thing boils down to whose ox is being gored.

Respectfully, Bare, you have no trouble with people hiding fences for their dogs or snakes or whatever, but a cat outside in the neighborhood was an issue. For many people, the cat outside would not be an issue. They are both out of compliance with deed restrictions but you selected the violation you didn't like, to be enforced. There needs to be in The Villages, an even handed approach and not selectively deciding which restrictions will be enforced.

Again the answer to the original post is: NO!

[Bogie Shooter]

Apparently there seems to be a suspicion that beside a Deed violation there are other incentives?. Perhaps the fence is to keep his dog fenced in at the back yard? Again perhaps the fence is to keep people out?

Irrespective its construction required prior approval which appears would not have been granted. I am wondering why Community Watch has not noticed this violation? These rules were made for specific reasons and there has been nothing which indicates that they should be changed, ignored or removed. Quite to the contrary because of the great expansion here rules are even more important. I can't think of a quicker way to have your neighborhood go to pot then to have neighbors who ignore such violations with the intent that if X can have a fence then I can have...............

There was a time when Community Watch did have that responsibility, however, that was changed some time ago to the Community Standards Deed Compliance Division being entirely complaint driven.
VCDD Community Standards (http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Community-Standards/community-standards.aspx)

[Bogie Shooter]

I understand that Community Watch does drive through neighborhoods and check front lawns for overgrown weeds and flagrant violations.

I highly doubt Community Watch has the authority to go on people's private property and inspect their backyards!

Your understanding is wrong about what Community Watch does.

Deed Compliance does have the authority to inspect backyards if a complaint has been entered.

You may want to read the information at this site;
VCDD Community Standards (http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Community-Standards/community-standards.aspx)

[gomoho]

Still waiting for the OP to advise us what the purpose of the fence than he/she can't see is. Is it an enclosed area to contain dogs or what???

[Bogie Shooter]

Could it be posters remorse?:undecided:

[Easyrider]

There needs to be in The Villages, an even handed approach and not selectively deciding which restrictions will be enforced.

Again the answer to the original post is: NO!

:bigbow::police::bigbow:

[rdhdleo]

:bowdown:


:bowdown:



:bigbow:

We all love deed restrictions that keep The Villages beautiful and our property values high. However I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide if they want to tolerate a situation or call the Ambiance Police.

Driving around to spot violations and call authorities ..... sounds to me like Big Brother. :22yikes:


:bigbow: :BigApplause: :agree:

[Barefoot]

Respectfully, Bare, you have no trouble with people hiding fences for their dogs or snakes or whatever, but a cat outside in the neighborhood was an issue. They are both out of compliance with deed restrictions but you selected the violation you didn't like.

Some people complained about the cat wandering around, but it wasn't an issue for me at all. It didn't offend me .. I was worried about it being eaten by coyotes, that's why I talked to the owner! Goodness, we have bunnies that regularly poop on our back lawn, and I love watching them hop around.

And it's not that I approve of deed restriction violations. I just don't feel I have an obligation to be the neighborhood watchdog. My point is that deed restriction violations often occur. I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide whether to complain. And I do not think that will open the floodgates to polka dot garages!

A short fence surrounded by shrubs in a small area would not offend me and I wouldn't report it. Especially if I couldn't see it!!

Every time I say "to each his own", I get jumped on by someone who scoldingly says "it's an obligation to complain!" I'm not complaining about being scolded, not at all. It's part of enjoying a chat room. But I don't agree that it's everyone's obligation to complain. I don't agree at all. I think it's up to the neighbors to decide. Also, I don't complain to managers in restaurants either. I just vote with my feet and don't return.

OK, maybe I'm a wimp. But I honestly believe life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

[CFrance]

Bless your heart and Merry Christmas, friend.

[DonH57]

Some people complained about the cat wandering around, but it wasn't an issue for me at all. It didn't offend me .. I was worried about it being eaten by coyotes, that's why I talked to the owner! Goodness, we have bunnies that regularly poop on our back lawn, and I love watching them hop around.

And it's not that I approve of deed restriction violations. I just don't feel I have an obligation to be the neighborhood watchdog. My point is that deed restriction violations often occur. I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide whether to complain. And I do not think that will open the floodgates to polka dot garages!

A short fence surrounded by shrubs in a small area would not offend me and I wouldn't report it. Especially if I couldn't see it!!

Every time I say "to each his own", I get jumped on by someone who scoldingly says "it's an obligation to complain!" I'm not complaining about being scolded, not at all. It's part of enjoying a chat room. But I don't agree that it's everyone's obligation to complain. I don't agree at all. I think it's up to the neighbors to decide. Also, I don't complain to managers in restaurants either. I just vote with my feet and don't return.

OK, maybe I'm a wimp. But I honestly believe life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

Amen Barefoot. Life is too short to be consumed with finding and reporting faults with your neighbors. I believe in letting the authorities do their work handling what is a legit complaint.It's not my job. I learned from reading and posting on this forum not to be worried about being berated by the busybodies and know it all's. Lots of keyboard courage on the net. Have a safe and merry Christmas. Happy holidays to fence lovers and haters. Yea !

[Suzi]

I'm a newbe and just built and moved into a brand new neighborhood. I see deed restriction violations in our little neighborhood everyday. They are truly small things to me, so I guess I will let those who it bothers more - make phone calls. I guess if it really was a bigger annoyance, I wouldn't be such a weeny and call the authorities. But for now, I think I will let you guys with thinner skins and more of a spine than me, do the complaining.

[Golfingnut]

A hidden fence is bending not breaking the rules.

The speed limit on Buena Vista is 35 MPH. If you go through radar at 36 you could be fined, but most police officers know you are within the intent of the law and will not ticket you.

A fence up close to your house made invisible by bushes is known by reasonably thinking neighbors as within the intent of the rule.

SO: Let's agree that it does not follow the letter of the rule, but the therapy chicken does not either yet after reasonable people discussed the matter, the chicken won over the rule. Also, the hidden fence is so distant from why this particular rule was put in print that it should not turn neighbors into classroom tattle tails.

If any of us see a murder, it is our duty to report it, but when I see someone flick a cigarette out of their car on public roads I shake my head in disgust, but I do not take down their license number and make out a police report.

If that HIDDEN fence helps my neighbor enjoy their retired years even a little bit more, then God bless them and the fence.

Merry Christmas to all.

Lou

[jhrc4]

Look those who are defending the fence are pretty naïve. This is a Deed Restricted Community, and rules do apply to everyone. Not a random selection of some individuals who in this case have a dog(s). Rules apply period, sort of like when you were growing up and the parents had Rules and perhaps you didn't agree with the rules, but you obeyed them or Else.

Of course you can always come up with But Why, and the short answer to that is because it is the RULES . Simple as that. Put in a suggestion to change the rules in the meantime take down the fence.

[mickey100]

A hidden fence is bending not breaking the rules.

The speed limit on Buena Vista is 35 MPH. If you go through radar at 36 you could be fined, but most police officers know you are within the intent of the law and will not ticket you.

A fence up close to your house made invisible by bushes is known by reasonably thinking neighbors as within the intent of the rule.

SO: Let's agree that it does not follow the letter of the rule, but the therapy chicken does not either yet after reasonable people discussed the matter, the chicken won over the rule. Also, the hidden fence is so distant from why this particular rule was put in print that it should not turn neighbors into classroom tattle tails.

If any of us see a murder, it is our duty to report it, but when I see someone flick a cigarette out of their car on public roads I shake my head in disgust, but I do not take down their license number and make out a police report.

If that HIDDEN fence helps my neighbor enjoy their retired years even a little bit more, then God bless them and the fence.

Merry Christmas to all.

Lou

Thanks Lou. Very eloquently spoken. I suspect if someone goes over their covenant with a fine toothed comb, they will find rules they didn't know even existed, that are broken or bent every day. Of course rules are a good thing and keep the neighborhoods looking great, but let's use a little common sense with regard to the intent of each particular rule. Happy holidays.

[graciegirl]

Some people complained about the cat wandering around, but it wasn't an issue for me at all. It didn't offend me .. I was worried about it being eaten by coyotes, that's why I talked to the owner! Goodness, we have bunnies that regularly poop on our back lawn, and I love watching them hop around.

And it's not that I approve of deed restriction violations. I just don't feel I have an obligation to be the neighborhood watchdog. My point is that deed restriction violations often occur. I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide whether to complain. And I do not think that will open the floodgates to polka dot garages!

A short fence surrounded by shrubs in a small area would not offend me and I wouldn't report it. Especially if I couldn't see it!!

Every time I say "to each his own", I get jumped on by someone who scoldingly says "it's an obligation to complain!" I'm not complaining about being scolded, not at all. It's part of enjoying a chat room. But I don't agree that it's everyone's obligation to complain. I don't agree at all. I think it's up to the neighbors to decide. Also, I don't complain to managers in restaurants either. I just vote with my feet and don't return.

OK, maybe I'm a wimp. But I honestly believe life is too short to sweat the small stuff.


Bare. You are kind and good and fair and gentle and smart. Do NOT change.


You aren't standing for anything but good stuff. I don't know of many that would find it easy to call and ask deed compliance to ask a neighbor to do what they are supposed to do.


People are going to be about this issue like they are about any other issue in their lives. Some will use it to be selfish, some will use it to have power and some will ignore it.


You aren't a wimp. You aren't wrong.


We lived in a deed compliant community for many decades before we moved here. We chose a similar community again here in The Villages just to protect our investment in the property we live in and to enjoy what deed compliant communities look like to live in.


If the hidden fences begin to be an irritant for anyone who live nearby they will be taken down. Someone will complain.


If having a fenced yard and a clear conscience is an important thing to a potential home buyer here, there are choices.

[Peachie]

Some people complained about the cat wandering around, but it wasn't an issue for me at all. It didn't offend me .. I was worried about it being eaten by coyotes, that's why I talked to the owner! Goodness, we have bunnies that regularly poop on our back lawn, and I love watching them hop around.

And it's not that I approve of deed restriction violations. I just don't feel I have an obligation to be the neighborhood watchdog. My point is that deed restriction violations often occur. I think it's up to immediate neighbors to decide whether to complain. And I do not think that will open the floodgates to polka dot garages!

A short fence surrounded by shrubs in a small area would not offend me and I wouldn't report it. Especially if I couldn't see it!!

Every time I say "to each his own", I get jumped on by someone who scoldingly says "it's an obligation to complain!" I'm not complaining about being scolded, not at all. It's part of enjoying a chat room. But I don't agree that it's everyone's obligation to complain. I don't agree at all. I think it's up to the neighbors to decide. Also, I don't complain to managers in restaurants either. I just vote with my feet and don't return.

OK, maybe I'm a wimp. But I honestly believe life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

Good morning, Bare, and Merry Christmas! You and I are one the same page for most things but I have to say a 4' fence isn't what I would consider short and I don't remember reading where someone said it was anyone's "obligation to complain". I do see there are some that are trying to intimidate those who want to report a violation that bothers them.

It's small stuff to you right now, Bare, because the violation out there isn't one that bothers you. Believe me, when the violation happens that annoys the heck out of you, you will call and complain. As I said earlier, it just depends what annoys whom. I think you may be protective of fences because a dog or another animal may live there. Do you feel the same about the fence if it's an attempt to house a python or store/produce drugs?

This thread is so off course, the only question asked by the OP was are fences okay if you attempt to hide them. Answer: NO. Reason: PROHIBITED BY DEED RESTRICTIONS unless they are part of the original construction, such as a courtyard villa. This is a deed restricted community, if one can't live within the restrictions that one is required to agreed to, keep looking. There are lots of homes for sale in Florida that would suit the 4' chain link fence or chicken wire fence crowd just fine. The Villages is a great place for people who are finished with fences.

Enjoy the holidays everyone. :ho:

[jhrc4]

Living in a Deed Restricted Community is crystal clear for those who live in one, there are rules that apply to everyone. Like anything else in our society there are always, always some individuals who don't play by, or, like the rules and then Screw it up for those who do.

Sort of like going through the check out line that clearly states: 10 or fewer items and some clown stretches the rule and .... well you get the picture.

Get rid of the fence....Good Night.

[bonrich]

WOW! 16 pages and 151 posts about a fence. Not much more to add except my post, #152
Merry Christmas to all, enjoy and embrace this day and the reason for it.

[Golfingnut]

WOW! 16 pages and 151 posts about a fence. Not much more to add except my post, #152
Merry Christmas to all, enjoy and embrace this day and the reason for it.

And we will. Nana and I have already sat on the floor in our jammis and opened presents from our kids and grand kids. Nana is now cooking our favorite non healthy Christmas breakfast. We have the day completely planned out and hope non of what we plan for our favorite day of the year contains any thing that is against some silly restriction.

I can't lie on this special day. In our yard hidden behind a bush is a rain gauge that is also made to look like a tulip flower. I feel so ashamed and guilty.

[DonH57]

WOW! 16 pages and 151 posts about a fence. Not much more to add except my post, #152
Merry Christmas to all, enjoy and embrace this day and the reason for it.

I agree. And soon I believe lawn ornaments is next. LOL.

[Golfingnut]

The rule or the intent of the rule. That is the question.



In the Supreme Court Chung Fook v. White (1924) marked the beginning of the looser American Rule that the intent of the law was more important than its text.

The intent of the no fence rule was intended that no one would change the As DESIGNED look of a property by surrounding it with a fence;hence, a hidden fence is not offensive to the intent of the rule.

So, with the power invested in me by the FENCE LOVERS OF THE VILLAGES ASSOCIATION, I hereby say unto thee, check with the architectural comittee and HIDE THAT FENCE.

[DonH57]

The rule or the intent of the rule. That is the question.



In the Supreme Court Chung Fook v. White (1924) marked the beginning of the looser American Rule that the intent of the law was more important than its text.

The intent of the no fence rule was intended that no one would change the As DESIGNED look of a property by surrounding it with a fence;hence, a hidden fence is not offensive to the intent of the rule.

So, with the power invested in me by the FENCE LOVERS OF THE VILLAGES ASSOCIATION, I hereby say unto thee, check with the architectural comittee and HIDE THAT FENCE.

Good one ! :1rotfl:

[shcisamax]

An hour and six minutes and no rule loving fence biters....how much longer can they be held at bay

[Golfingnut]

An hour and six minutes and no rule loving fence biters....how much longer can they be held at bay

I give full credit to our no nonsense monitors. :MOJE_whot:

[Happydaz]

I think they should do away with all restrictions and covenants. I lived for quite a while up in Northern Vermont as well as in New Hampshire (The "Live free or die" state) and it was everyone's right to use their property as they saw fit. If they wanted to park six cars and trucks in their driveways and store junk in their yard, they could. Mobile homes were welded to old schools buses to make additions to their domicile. Down the street there could be a gorgeous Georgian colonial, but that homeowner had no right to impinge on his neighbor in anyway, unless there was a danger from the stored junk. The Villages has all these covenants and rules and all they do is interfere with the free American spirit of "live free or die" which had its origin in the American Revolution. There should be no restrictions whatsoever. The people who complain about violations to the covenants should realize that no one cares, not even the authorities. The reason I know this is that the authorities wait for a complaint to be made before enforcing any rules. This pits neighbor against neighbor and almost guarantees that most people will not complain. Let's face it, who wants to turn a neighbor in?

[GPGuar]

I think they should do away with all restrictions and covenants. I lived for quite a while up in Northern Vermont as well as in New Hampshire (The "Live free or die" state) and it was everyone's right to use their property as they saw fit. If they wanted to park six cars and trucks in their driveways and store junk in their yard, they could. Mobile homes were welded to old schools buses to make additions to their domicile. Down the street there could be a gorgeous Georgian colonial, but that homeowner had no right to impinge on his neighbor in anyway, unless there was a danger from the stored junk. The Villages has all these covenants and rules and all they do is interfere with the free American spirit of "live free or die" which had its origin in the American Revolution. There should be no restrictions whatsoever. The people who complain about violations to the covenants should realize that no one cares, not even the authorities. The reason I know this is that the authorities wait for a complaint to be made before enforcing any rules. This pits neighbor against neighbor and almost guarantees that most people will not complain. Let's face it, who wants to turn a neighbor in?
Yes ...just what I want my next door neighbor's house looking like a junk yard with cars on blocks and assorted debris scattered around the house!:1rotfl:

[Golfingnut]

I think they should do away with all restrictions and covenants. I lived for quite a while up in Northern Vermont as well as in New Hampshire (The "Live free or die" state) and it was everyone's right to use their property as they saw fit. If they wanted to park six cars and trucks in their driveways and store junk in their yard, they could. Mobile homes were welded to old schools buses to make additions to their domicile. Down the street there could be a gorgeous Georgian colonial, but that homeowner had no right to impinge on his neighbor in anyway, unless there was a danger from the stored junk. The Villages has all these covenants and rules and all they do is interfere with the free American spirit of "live free or die" which had its origin in the American Revolution. There should be no restrictions whatsoever. The people who complain about violations to the covenants should realize that no one cares, not even the authorities. The reason I know this is that the authorities wait for a complaint to be made before enforcing any rules. This pits neighbor against neighbor and almost guarantees that most people will not complain. Let's face it, who wants to turn a neighbor in?

HUMMMMMM. Your example would come closer to doing harm to the neighborhood than a simple hidden fence, hence would be why the rules are written. Let's keep the intent of rules in place as the hidden fence would do.

[gomoho]

The rule or the intent of the rule. That is the question.



In the Supreme Court Chung Fook v. White (1924) marked the beginning of the looser American Rule that the intent of the law was more important than its text.

The intent of the no fence rule was intended that no one would change the As DESIGNED look of a property by surrounding it with a fence;hence, a hidden fence is not offensive to the intent of the rule.

So, with the power invested in me by the FENCE LOVERS OF THE VILLAGES ASSOCIATION, I hereby say unto thee, check with the architectural comittee and HIDE THAT FENCE.

By GEORGE!!! I think you've got it:MOJE_whot:

[DonH57]

Yes ...just what I want my next door neighbor's house looking like a junk yard with cars on blocks and assorted debris scattered around the house!:1rotfl:

One should never place their car up on blocks unless covered by a tarp. Anything less would be tacky. One must maintain class.:1rotfl:

[mickey100]

By GEORGE!!! I think you've got it:MOJE_whot:

Love it!

[keithwand]

One should never place their car up on blocks unless covered by a tarp. Anything less would be tacky. One must maintain class.:1rotfl:

That's why one should park their car on the neighbors lawn.

[hema54]

Wow I never thought one question would cause such an uproar. You all have your own and some very strong opinions. I could even bet that a few of you went out in search of the offenders. The question was answered, thank you to all who were civil. I understand that rules are rules, but sometimes the rules need to be bent and in some cases rules need to be broken because it's stupid rule to begin with. In this case maybe they need the doggie area because of a disability, maybe the rule needs to be bent. Maybe they just didn't read the rules. Maybe they read them and are trying to get away with putting up a fence. Why it was done isn't the issue. The question was is it allowed? Question answered, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

[Bucco]

Wow I never thought one question would cause such an uproar. You all have your own and some very strong opinions. I could even bet that a few of you went out in search of the offenders. The question was answered, thank you to all who were civil. I understand that rules are rules, but sometimes the rules need to be bent and in some cases rules need to be broken because it's stupid rule to begin with. In this case maybe they need the doggie area because of a disability, maybe the rule needs to be bent. Maybe they just didn't read the rules. Maybe they read them and are trying to get away with putting up a fence. Why it was done isn't the issue. The question was is it allowed? Question answered, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

" but sometimes the rules need to be bent and in some cases rules need to be broken because it's stupid rule to begin with."

WHO decides stupid ? You ?

This is a problem that is here and extends beyond The Villages.....Folks just decide that certain rules do not apply to them...just the other guy. Think that through and see where it takes our society. Do people actually spend their hard earned money to buy here, and do not look at the rules, or do they just figure...if I do not like the rules, I will just not follow them.

I also do not understand folks coming on TOTV and asking questions about rules that are either published clearly or a definition is easily obtained with a phone call.

[angiefox10]

There are threads on here with people trying to tell everyone about the robberies in The Villages, that aren't being published in the news. Threads so people will be aware and more watchful! It appears, for the most part no one believes it... I know it's true, and have in fact, posted about them myself. I posted so people will be aware and been summarily been shut down! . No one will listen so, I for one will no longer post about it.

This thread is about a possible fence hidden by shrubs that could be a dog pen and everyone is trying to find out were, so they can turn it in.

We don't care if people are being robbed... But put up a possible fence that can't be seen?? Whoa!

Priorities here are really messed up!

[Bogie Shooter]

There are threads on here with people trying to tell everyone about the robberies in The Villages, that aren't being published in the news. Threads so people will be aware and more watchful! It appears, for the most part no one believes it... I know it's true, and have in fact, posted about them myself. I posted so people will be aware and been summarily been shut down! . No one will listen so, I for one will no longer post about it.

This thread is about a possible fence hidden by shrubs that could be a dog pen and everyone is trying to find out were, so they can turn it in.

We don't care if people are being robbed... But put up a possible fence that can't be seen?? Whoa!

Priorities here are really messed up!

What are you expecting people to post about a robbery?

[graciegirl]

There are threads on here with people trying to tell everyone about the robberies in The Villages, that aren't being published in the news. Threads so people will be aware and more watchful! It appears, for the most part no one believes it... I know it's true, and have in fact, posted about them myself. I posted so people will be aware and been summarily been shut down! . No one will listen so, I for one will no longer post about it.

This thread is about a possible fence hidden by shrubs that could be a dog pen and everyone is trying to find out were, so they can turn it in.

We don't care if people are being robbed... But put up a possible fence that can't be seen?? Whoa!

Priorities here are really messed up!


Not so. If you REALLY read what is happening.


Most people are properly concerned about both. I read every post and there are many people who read this forum who are VERY concerned about the homes broken into and hope that the person who is obviously the same guy who has broken into homes in Sanibel is caught.


People aren't trying to find the person that has the fence..... BUT many of us posters do like deed restrictions. And that subject has been handled.


It is important to read EVERY post. And not jump to the wrong conclusions. Robberies are obviously a much more serious subject than deed restrictions. But most of us ARE rule followers.


There are folks who oppose Anything written by some posters, but most people try to find out what really is happening without the rumors that sometimes have a life of their own here.

[mickey100]

There are threads on here with people trying to tell everyone about the robberies in The Villages, that aren't being published in the news. Threads so people will be aware and more watchful! It appears, for the most part no one believes it... I know it's true, and have in fact, posted about them myself. I posted so people will be aware and been summarily been shut down! . No one will listen so, I for one will no longer post about it.

This thread is about a possible fence hidden by shrubs that could be a dog pen and everyone is trying to find out were, so they can turn it in.

We don't care if people are being robbed... But put up a possible fence that can't be seen?? Whoa!

Priorities here are really messed up!

In my opinion there are some people who have difficulty believing there is any crime in The Villages, so they always try to downplay it. Of course, most of us are realists and know that in a community of this size, there will be crime. People are listening, so if you do hear of robberies, etc., please continue to post. We welcome your comments.

As far as mis-placed priorities, looking at pages of comments about an invisible fence, I have to agree with you!

[janmcn]

In my opinion there are some people who have difficulty believing there is any crime in The Villages, so they always try to downplay it. Of course, most of us are realists and know that in a community of this size, there will be crime. People are listening, so if you do hear of robberies, etc., please continue to post. We welcome your comments.

As far as mis-placed priorities, looking at pages of comments about an invisible fence, I have to agree with you!


There could be thousands of invisible fences. Since they are invisible, how would anybody know?

Mele Kalikimaka to one and all.

[Happydaz]

There could be thousands of invisible fences. Since they are invisible, how would anybody know?

Mele Kalikimaka to one and all.

But somebody did know, and the OP never mentioned the word invisible. The OP obviously saw the fence as well as the shrubs that were planted in an attempt to hide the fence. If the OP saw it, it was obviously visible. Read the first post, no mention of the word invisible.

[mickey100]

But somebody did know, and the OP never mentioned the word invisible. The OP obviously saw the fence as well as the shrubs that were planted in an attempt to hide the fence. If the OP saw it, it was obviously visible. Read the first post, no mention of the word invisible.

The OP followed up in post #8 saying: " if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there. Trying to make it an invisible fence I guess."

[Happydaz]

The OP followed up in post #8 saying: " if you didn't see the fence before they put the bushes in front you might not even know the fence was there. Trying to make it an invisible fence I guess."

"Trying to make it an invisible fence I guess."

Trying to win Mega Bucks I bought three tickets at the gas station.

[Trish Crocker]

I think I'll invite my teenage grandchildren to live here with me...as long as no one really sees them it will be ok...Right? I can get Steve to build them a treehouse in the palm in my back yard. Since I 'might' not be here next week, I'm planning on putting my garbage out a week earlier, in brown paper bags. I also think no one has the RIGHT to tell me what to do with my pets so I have decided to let them run free. The six sexy garden gnomes and the cut-out of the farmer and his wife bending over will look great in my front yard with the flower pots made out of old tires I took off the car in my driveway. I have found that a car seat placed in my front yard makes a very comfy place to sit while visitin the neighbors. I hope you all come to the daily yard sales I'm planning to have, reselling the stuff I buy at other yard sales. You're absolutely right...we don't need restrictions...we are free Americans dammit and we don't give a damn about what our neighbors think.

[DonH57]

I think I'll invite my teenage grandchildren to live here with me...as long as no one really sees them it will be ok...Right? I can get Steve to build them a treehouse in the palm in my back yard. Since I 'might' not be here next week, I'm planning on putting my garbage out a week earlier, in brown paper bags. I also think no one has the RIGHT to tell me what to do with my pets so I have decided to let them run free. The six sexy garden gnomes and the cut-out of the farmer and his wife bending over will look great in my front yard with the flower pots made out of old tires I took off the car in my driveway. I have found that a car seat placed in my front yard makes a very comfy place to sit while visitin the neighbors. I hope you all come to the daily yard sales I'm planning to have, reselling the stuff I buy at other yard sales. You're absolutely right...we don't need restrictions...we are free Americans dammit and we don't give a damn about what our neighbors think.

I believe one lone palm tree won't support a tree house. It should take 4 solid queen plans to be safe. Safety first. Just trying to help.

[DougB]

I believe one lone palm tree won't support a tree house. It should take 4 solid queen plans to be safe. Safety first. Just trying to help.

Don, I'm not sure even four palms would be sufficient. I think Trish should go with an oak tree. With enough branches she could make it invisible.

[DonH57]

Don, I'm not sure even four palms would be sufficient. I think Trish should go with an oak tree. With enough branches she could make it invisible.

You may be right Doug. With the oak tree it could a three story too with a tire swing right into the pond.

[mickey100]

I think the message is clear here. We have two types of people. One who have a need for absolutism and rules. There are no shades of grey, only black and white.

The other type tends to be more open minded, and will use common sense when considering the "intent" of the rule.

This thread has reminded me how much I value my neighbors who fall into the common sense category. And if we do have disagreements, they will be open and honest talk to my face about what is bothering them.

[Bucco]

I think the message is clear here. We have two types of people. One who have a need for absolutism and rules. There are no shades of grey, only black and white.

The other type tends to be more open minded, and will use common sense when considering the "intent" of the rule.

This thread has reminded me how much I value my neighbors who fall into the common sense category. And if we do have disagreements, they will be open and honest talk to my face about what is bothering them.

Allow me to apologize in advance, but I am one of those seem to be non "open minded, and apparently have no "common sense".

I believe that rules are rules......I believe you know those rules AND ACCEPT THEM.....BEFORE you make a decision. I expect my neighbors to also be responsible and to know and abide by the rules.

[TexaninVA]

Wow I never thought one question would cause such an uproar. You all have your own and some very strong opinions. I could even bet that a few of you went out in search of the offenders. The question was answered, thank you to all who were civil. I understand that rules are rules, but sometimes the rules need to be bent and in some cases rules need to be broken because it's stupid rule to begin with. In this case maybe they need the doggie area because of a disability, maybe the rule needs to be bent. Maybe they just didn't read the rules. Maybe they read them and are trying to get away with putting up a fence. Why it was done isn't the issue. The question was is it allowed? Question answered, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

Or maybe, just maybe, they violated the rule because they just wanted to do it their way "just because." This is nothing more than another form of selfishness. It's also not that complicated.