Landscape choices are all different

[Rons Landscaping]

When it comes to making choices for your special landscape project for your home there are many different choices to be had. Not everyone likes or wants the same Palm trees, and everyone's budget is different, and there are many different looks to be had. We do everything from basic landscape projects to something you would see at Disney.

When someone makes a post here on TOTV about there landscaping project that we just finished, they are proud of their project and want to share it with others. I have noticed some of the remarks people have posted back telling our customers they have made a bad choice with their Palm tree choices or plant material. I think that is negative and somewhat rude, let me explain why. When I started in this business around 30 years ago, I was a grower here in central Florida and supplied plant material to 12 counties and to many of the major theme Parks here in Florida. We supplied places like Publix and Albertsons; many, many landscaping companies and floral shops; and many garden centers throughout the State. Our plant material was also used at the University of Florida in Gainesville for there horticultural classes back in the early 90's.You can see our work here in The Villages if you go to our web site at Ronslandscapinginc.com.

When I talk to a potential customer in regards to their landscaping project, It is my job to guide them with their plant and tree choices along with a design they may want. I will tell them everything they need to know in regards to how the plant grows, and how it will do in this climate here in The Villages. The final decision is up to them in regards to what they pick out for plants and trees. All I can do is guide them, it is their home and their money, and they are the ones that make the final decision. Some customers are willing to roll the dice when it comes to the plants and trees they choose even though I have told them what could happen if we have a hard freeze again. That is the look they want so they go with it.

I have written articles here on TOTV for people in order to help guide them, so when or if they decide to landscape their home, it may help them with their decisions know matter who they choose to use for there landscaping company. So, when someone makes negative remarks about a person's post and tells them that they made the wrong choices with their trees and plants, I think it's wrong. After all, it is their home and their money and that's the look they want.

[redwitch]

Well said!

[OCsun]

Ron,
I have never used your services but, I could not agree with you more. I have some plants which are not winter hardy, but that was my choice not my original landscapers.

[philnpat]

Ron...thanks for your posts. I find them honest and helpful. When it comes time for a landscape change, I'll definitely call you for a quote.

[Houselover]

Ron, I have found your posts informative and spot on. I also appreciated all the advice you gave us while doing our landscaping project for us. You were the only one who listened to our concerns and recommended the correct plants for our project.

[Bonanza]

I believe Mr. Ron is referring to a previous post that I made regarding a Queen Palm that he planted for a lady who simply loves it. This lady may love that palm, but as a 'professional,' he should have refused her request and pointed her in the direction of a different palm.

No, I was not being rude and my 'opinion' is based solely on facts. In parts of Australia it is on their restricted list. in Florida, it is considered invasive. Any professional and/or licensed landscaper should not provide it -- period -- even when a customer requests one, because it IS invasive in Florida. In addition, it is not really suitable for our landscape zone here in The Villages (zone 9A). They are probably, understandly, the least expensive palm available. They harbor many insects and diseases (cockroaches love them) and as palms go, are a high maintenance palm. With so many alternatives, there is no reason for a landscaper to even suggest one. In addition, I have NEVER seen one here in The Villages that does not have 'frizzle top," even those that have just been planted!

Pure and simple -- the Queen Palm is a junk tree!

[asianthree]

Still its the customer that is paying for the landscape. ..if that's what palm they want. .it will come from somewhere. ..I think Ron's is a fair and honest company.

[redwitch]

Bonanza, I hate palms in general and truly think Queen Palms are flat-out ugly. That being said, I do believe the customer is always right. If a landscaper gives all the reasons why a plant should not be used and the customer wants it regardless, then I believe the customer has a right to that plant. The landscapers I object to not only do not tell people why a Queen is a bad idea, they actually recommend them! I know that Ron does his best to convince folks to not get a Queen but some folks want what they want. So, I think your criticism is unfair.

[graciegirl]

Still its the customer that is paying for the landscape. ..if that's what palm they want. .it will come from somewhere. ..I think Ron's is a fair and honest company.


I agree. I appreciate the free advice he gives us on this forum and his diplomatic way of presenting his views.

[Irishman]

In my dealings with Ron I have found him to be very honest in giving the customer the information required to make a decision on what they finally decide is the plan for them. The final product may vary from what Ron recommends but--Ron is the expert; the customer is the boss.

[mbrown]

I believe Mr. Ron is referring to a previous post that I made regarding a Queen Palm that he planted for a lady who simply loves it. This lady may love that palm, but as a 'professional,' he should have refused her request and pointed her in the direction of a different palm.

No, I was not being rude and my 'opinion' is based solely on facts. In parts of Australia it is on their restricted list. in Florida, it is considered invasive. Any professional and/or licensed landscaper should not provide it -- period -- even when a customer requests one, because it IS invasive in Florida. In addition, it is not really suitable for our landscape zone here in The Villages (zone 9A). They are probably, understandly, the least expensive palm available. They harbor many insects and diseases (cockroaches love them) and as palms go, are a high maintenance palm. With so many alternatives, there is no reason for a landscaper to even suggest one. In addition, I have NEVER seen one here in The Villages that does not have 'frizzle top," even those that have just been planted!

Pure and simple -- the Queen Palm is a junk tree!

An individual's decision to purchase what they want (as long as it is not illegal) is certainly that individual's right.

[Bonanza]

If someone professes to be a professional in a given field, there are always rules to be followed. If someone maintains their 'professional' stand -- in this case landscaping, gardening, etc., then they should be following the "rules" that IFAS has on their invasive list for Florida. Regardless of what a customer wants, a professional in that field should politely explain that the tree is undesireable and invasive and go a step further mentioning why.

It is so easy to politely go on to mention other palms that are less of a problem and absolutely, better looking. The professional should tell his customer in so many words that because he is a professional he will not deal with Queen Palms as it is a variety of tree that he simply will not plant because it IS invasive. Just look at the problems the Melaleuca has caused in the Everglades and has cost millions of dollars. The tree is still not eradicated and the problems are far from over. Kudzu is just one more good example of a really terrible plant.

I'm sorry, but I will never agree that a professional landscaper should EVER plant something that is on Florida's invasive plant list under any circumstances.

[Bonanza]

Bonanza, I hate palms in general and truly think Queen Palms are flat-out ugly. That being said, I do believe the customer is always right. If a landscaper gives all the reasons why a plant should not be used and the customer wants it regardless, then I believe the customer has a right to that plant. The landscapers I object to not only do not tell people why a Queen is a bad idea, they actually recommend them! I know that Ron does his best to convince folks to not get a Queen but some folks want what they want. So, I think your criticism is unfair.

We all know the old adage that the customer is always right, but in reality, we also know that it isn't true. :icon_wink: I don't think my criticism is unfair by any means. The University of Florida works very hard to try to keep Florida safe plant-wise. A great deal of study goes into their decision to put a plant on the invasive list. Every state does this, as a matter of fact. In my mind if a professional in the field does not follow their easy and simple guidelines, they aren't a professional, particularly when there are so many other alternatives.

[redwitch]

We all know the old adage that the customer is always right, but in reality, we also know that it isn't true. :icon_wink: I don't think my criticism is unfair by any means. The University of Florida works very hard to try to keep Florida safe plant-wise. A great deal of study goes into their decision to put a plant on the invasive list. Every state does this, as a matter of fact. In my mind if a professional in the field does not follow their easy and simple guidelines, they aren't a professional, particularly when there are so many other alternatives.

Personally, I would not be willing to give up a job just because the homeowner insisted on planting something that I knew was not right but I would certainly give them all reasons why their choice is a bad idea. Let's face it, if Ron and other ethical landscapers didn't give it to these homeowners, someone else would.

[JB in TV]

Is the Queen Palm invasive or is it just a poor choice here in TV due to its poor cold weather tolerance? I think that distinction would make a big difference in a landscaper's decision to plant it at a homeowner's request.

[gomoho]

I was curious about the Queen being invasive as well and googled it and confirmed it is considered invasive. Apparently all those seed pods that are dropped can create havoc. I would think birds eating them as well spread the wealth - if you get my drift.

That being said most Villagers keep their yards nice and tidy and the seed pods do not hang around at all, but are cleaned up by the time they hit the ground! So that should put a halt to their invasive ways.

[CFrance]

Personally, I would not be willing to give up a job just because the homeowner insisted on planting something that I knew was not right but I would certainly give them all reasons why their choice is a bad idea. Let's face it, if Ron and other ethical landscapers didn't give it to these homeowners, someone else would.


But Dee, does that make it right? Should I go to someone else to buy a queen palm because my landscaper (correctly) says it's invasive, or should I choose a better palm for my area? What if I decide to buy a gas hog instead of a more gas-efficient car because somebody else will if I don't...?

Interesting dilemma.

[redwitch]

Cyndi, I won't comment on the homeowner who insists on having a Queen Palm even after being told it won't survive here, is a haven for vermin and is a Category 2 invasive plant. If some dolt is that (1) dumb. (2) selfish, (3) stupid, (4) cheap and (5) ignorant, not much can be done about them. I'm defending the landscaper who is put in the position of either giving the customer what is wanted or losing the business.

[CFrance]

Cyndi, I won't comment on the homeowner who insists on having a Queen Palm even after being told it won't survive here, is a haven for vermin and is a Category 2 invasive plant. If some dolt is that (1) dumb. (2) selfish, (3) stupid, (4) cheap and (5) ignorant, not much can be done about them. I'm defending the landscaper who is put in the position of either giving the customer what is wanted or losing the business.

Okay. I see your point. I don't agree, but I see your point!;)

[CFrance]

Cyndi, I won't comment on the homeowner who insists on having a Queen Palm even after being told it won't survive here, is a haven for vermin and is a Category 2 invasive plant. If some dolt is that (1) dumb. (2) selfish, (3) stupid, (4) cheap and (5) ignorant, not much can be done about them. I'm defending the landscaper who is put in the position of either giving the customer what is wanted or losing the business.

Okay. I see your point. I don't agree, but I see your point!;)

And that's why I think it's an interesting dilemma.

[Villageswimmer]

Just curious....if a Queen dies or becomes diseased within the first year, is a landscaper expected to stand behind it despite the fact that he/she warned against planting it?

[Bonnevie]

I just had a Mexican Fan Palm (also known as Washington Palm) removed. I had bought a resale. The fronds were touching the house and overhanging the roof which gives bugs a way to get into the house. I don't know why someone sold the previous owners this tree for the front of a cyv. Here is what is said about them:

The Mexican fan palm is a fast-growing species that can reach heights of 70 to 100 feet, making it too tall for typical residential landscapes. Mexican fan palms are more prone to snapping or uprooting during severe storms than other palm species.

It was as high as the house so I figured I'd better get it down now. Also, as the old fronds die they form a skirt around the base....these make great nesting places for rats. This was obviously a horrible choice of a tree. Since the previous owners were snowbirds, I doubt they had a lot of knowledge about palms so someone sold this to them.

I know people think of palm trees when they move to Florida, but most are just not appropriate for this area.

[Bonanza]

I just had a Mexican Fan Palm (also known as Washington Palm) removed. I had bought a resale. The fronds were touching the house and overhanging the roof which gives bugs a way to get into the house. I don't know why someone sold the previous owners this tree for the front of a cyv. Here is what is said about them:

The Mexican fan palm is a fast-growing species that can reach heights of 70 to 100 feet, making it too tall for typical residential landscapes. Mexican fan palms are more prone to snapping or uprooting during severe storms than other palm species.

It was as high as the house so I figured I'd better get it down now. Also, as the old fronds die they form a skirt around the base....these make great nesting places for rats. This was obviously a horrible choice of a tree. Since the previous owners were snowbirds, I doubt they had a lot of knowledge about palms so someone sold this to them.

I know people think of palm trees when they move to Florida, but most are just not appropriate for this area.

An excellent post, Bonnevie. :bigbow: If only newcomers could and would read it, we wouldn't have half the landscape problems that currently exist because of ignorance on the part of homeowners and landscapers who won't do the right thing because of the almighty buck. That's really what it comes down to. Kind of like turning the other cheek.

When I first moved to Florida, all I could think about was no snow, sun and the ability to be outside 365 days a year. Well, that still remains true, however, 30-odd years have passed . . . The dream of palm trees has gone the way of the wind and shade trees have replaced my naivete about what really works in Florida and what we need. Keep the sun and heat off of me and my house! Yup -- give me trees, ceiling fans and a/c and I'm very happy.

I cannot disagree more with those who posted that if the landscaper doesn't give their customers what they want, even though it is wrong by all standards, then the customer will go elsewhere. All I can say is that's too bad! THAT is the difference between being a pro or being in it simply for the dollar sign. A so-called professional should always maintain the standards as set forth in his given field.

BTW -- there is not one palm on our property -- only trees and mostly planted for shade!

[Bonnevie]

I actually found a native plant landscaper, Green Isle Gardens, in Groveland. I had my back landscaped with native plants that will flower at various times of the year and native trees. They don't need much to maintain and should be a bird and butterfly paradise. But different people have different likes....I know mine isn't for everyone.

[angiefox10]

I appreciate the warnings about what trees are good and what trees are bad for this area. Every time I read a post about trees, I run to google to find out about each post.

What I have learned is that each tree has it's pros and cons.... rodents and bugs seem to climb up all trees. They don't seem to notice a difference according to google. Butt rot isn't exclusive to some palm trees but are a problem with the Florida Oak trees as well.

The favorite fruit trees that people seem to love can be a real issue.

As to what The Villages plants. Yes.. Their trees are all wonderful. Understand that when a tree dies in The Villages, the replant it right away so that no one notices.

I come from northern Illinois and we had problems with out trees and after years of growth... a wind storm will come and wipe a bunch of them out. Or.... the roots will grow too big and start invading the basements.

We had to trim our trees back home, and often times hire someone to top the tall trees.

I can find some trees that grow GREAT here and have fewer problems, but I hate the way they look.

Of course find out what you have to do to maintain the tree or bush... Folks life is too short. Grow what you like. Enjoy life... If it's an issue that bothers you... Don't plant it... Whatever it is.

As Quirky would say.... I'm Carping the h*ll out of my diem.

[gomoho]

If you look at other landscaping posts quite often it is mentioned to "plant what The Villages plants and you can't go wrong." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see these Mexican (Washington Palms) with their skirts hanging down all over The Village's property. Can't believe they would plant so many of them if they weren't hearty for our area and harbored rats!

[CFrance]

If you look at other landscaping posts quite often it is mentioned to "plant what The Villages plants and you can't go wrong." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see these Mexican (Washington Palms) with their skirts hanging down all over The Village's property. Can't believe they would plant so many of them if they weren't hearty for our area and harbored rats!

But I think the point was that they are okay for the open spaces of TV but not so good in your yard next to your house for a variety of reasons--too tall, harboring rodents close to your house, snapping off in high winds.

Just because TV plants something on their vast grounds doesn't mean it can go into your tiny plot of land with impunity.

[gomoho]

good point; however I doubt The Villages would plant palms that snap off in high winds and harbor rodents - if they did there would be bunches of rats in those trees and fronds and trees everywhere with the high winds we have had.

[Bonnevie]

we haven't had hurricane force winds....they probably planted them because they are fast growers....and self-cleaning once they get that high....that is, the bottom brown fronds fall off.--but they have to get as high as the ones along the roads to do that. I was just saying for me, to put such a tree in front of a CYV was inappropriate...the ones TV plants are along major streets...lots of room to grow.

[tommy steam]

I believe Mr. Ron is referring to a previous post that I made regarding a Queen Palm that he planted for a lady who simply loves it. This lady may love that palm, but as a 'professional,' he should have refused her request and pointed her in the direction of a different palm.

No, I was not being rude and my 'opinion' is based solely on facts. In parts of Australia it is on their restricted list. in Florida, it is considered invasive. Any professional and/or licensed landscaper should not provide it -- period -- even when a customer requests one, because it IS invasive in Florida. In addition, it is not really suitable for our landscape zone here in The Villages (zone 9A). They are probably, understandly, the least expensive palm available. They harbor many insects and diseases (cockroaches love them) and as palms go, are a high maintenance palm. With so many alternatives, there is no reason for a landscaper to even suggest one. In addition, I have NEVER seen one here in The Villages that does not have 'frizzle top," even those that have just been planted!

Pure and simple -- the Queen Palm is a junk tree!
I wonder why the powers to be that run the villages don't put a ban on invasive plants or trees. I have spoken to some of the master gardeners here and they told me that queen palms are cheap for the landscapers to buy and they charge a lot for them.

[jimbo2012]

The wholesale is about $100 for a queen 12-15', not sure what they charge installed.

A Sable costs about the same and do great here.

HD & Lowes will have palms back in stock soon, they have great pricing and a one year guaranty.

[Bonanza]

Tommy -- I don't think the 'powers that be' who run The Villages really care too much about homeowners' landscaping. A case in point is that every home is basically landscaped in the identical way unless a homeowner has made changes.

I, too, a certified Master Gardner. The Master Gardners to whom you have spoken are correct. Queen palms are cheap and that is why landscapers buy them and plant them.