I played LV to RG yesterday. I too was amazed at the number of un-repaired ball marks on the greens. I went off LV at 11:35. How many foursomes had been through there? 25? On Hole 1, I fixed 5 ball marks. It didn't improve after the 1st hole.

Considering yesterday was the 1st day it was opened after renovation, I was shocked by the abysmal quality of workmanship. I've been involved with golf course construction and renovation and the quality of the work done on Laurel Valley, should never have been accepted by the ownership.

I think the lack of professionalism by ownership, contributes to the lack of etiquette displayed by the golfers. If ownership doesn't care about quality, why should the players? I'm not saying I agree with that, just opining that's a contributing factor.

The renovation team laid about 3000 sq. ft. of new sod, to the left of the Tee Boxes on the 2nd hole. Looks great. When I got to the 3rd green, the green surrounds were atrocious. Why would they spend money for the "out of play" area next to the 2nd Tee box, yet not repair the area around the green on 3?

I was told that the 2nd green was "flattened". No way. That green is almost exactly the same as it was ... virtually unplayable.

The 5th green should have been flattened in the left rear ... no change.

I did Birdie 9 from the Blues, so I can't find anything to complain about, there.

I agree there's no excuse for not repairing ball marks and raking bunkers, but if ownership doesn't want to set an example, it's hard to enforce a policy of "do as I say, not as I do".

Riley Grove's greens are for the most part, awful. I'm no expert on Bermuda grass, but 4 or 5 holes looked like they have a fungus or disease. I could have lived with that, but when I got to the 7th hole and found there were 5 groups on the hole, I gave up and went home.

I haven't played Palmer since LV closed, as I don't like Cherry Hills. This was my first time back this year and I won't be back, unless I hear that conditions have dramatically changed.

On another note, as usually, Glenview is in excellent condition and TDS is in nearly private course condition. If you were to only consider the "playing areas" (leaving out areas around the paths & non-playing areas), TDS conditions were like you might expect at a moderately priced private club.

I've hear that OB is in great condition. It's a pretty weird golf course, but I might have to give it a try, considering conditions as most of the other courses.

[Yes, I know part of the issue, is GV, OB & TDS are under a different Water Withdrawal Permit and can use more water than the more southern courses.]

Even at real country clubs, 99% of the people fix ball marks, repair divots and rake traps. Was member of 3 before moving to TV. All 3 most members used the clubs carts and all had signs in them reminding people to rake traps, fix ball marks etc.

Regarding #2, TV is the 1st place that I have ever seen the 12" rakes and they do take a lot more time than the larger ones. For me they take 2-3x longer, since a person creates more footprints when using the smaller rake. With a bigger rake it is easier to walk out of the trap and drag the rake behind you to cover your foot prints. Very hard to do with the narrower rake. That being said, agree that some people still do not rake the traps, especially when they see that other earlier players did not rake them

BS.

I don't feel it's all on the volume of golfers but it's really sad it got to the point it's just as hard to get a tee time as if it was January because of all the course closures come April. I try to avoid blaming the snowbirds but I'm sure they have their share of entitled ones!

Very few golfers in front of you. Played in the PM at Glenview on 11-9 and saw 5-6 un repaired ball marks on every hole.

Un repaired ball marks, un raked traps do not only occur in the cooler months. They exist year round. In fact see less ball marks on the greens during the cool months since the greens are harder.

Looks like we are on the same wavelength here. If you belonged to a real CC you probably had $10K-$30K initiation investment and a requirement of $5K/year bar tab plus dues. I.E. substantial skin in the game. Not much skin in the game here in TV. Raise the rates - the courses will get less play, more recuperation time, affords higher quality of maintenance and more respect by those who do pay to play.

I guess it's all a question of expectations.

On a scale of 1-10, "10" being Augusta National, I'd give Palmer about a 5.5-6.0 yesterday. Mallory is a 5 this week. Glenview and TDS about 7 for the playing areas.

IMO, TV Courses are generally in the condition of a decent Muni course in the real world.

Don’t try to put lipstick on this pig! If you play golf, LEARN the rules, LEARN golf etiquette, leave the course, bunkers, and greens BETTER than what you found them. Not tough. If your knees or back prevent you from bending, get a suction cup or ball picker for the handle of your putter.

Why Are Golf Club Memberships So Expensive? (Top 10 Reasons)

Maybe they should hire some people to keep the greens looking good. And put them in some kind of armor so they do not get hit with balls while cleaning up after inconsiderate golfers.

They could advertise on the armor for local businesses.

Food for thought.

As a homeowner whose backyard sits on the LV course I watched the past 8 months the hard work, and listened to all the dump trucks and heavy machinery and energy the renovation team performed to rip this course totally apart and put it back together better than before. Months before it opened they were already aerating fairways and greens and leveling greens. They were getting into the maintenance mode. It was eye awakening and interesting to watch and record the processes. I got to say hi to an ambassador group on day 1. On day 2 I went to say hello to a group of folks that had rental carts so I could tell they weren’t villagers. They had no idea it was the first real day the course was opened. They would have no skin in the game of taking care of a course they would not play again probably anytime soon. As one person said- it is about respect and of course maybe some forgetfulness. I won’t complain. I for one fix any divots that I see when on the greens and any other issues that I have time to fix. I don’t mind helping out where others fail. There are many ideas on how to fix this but it is probably not fixable because some people just don’t care. I see it when they drive on our property. Walk around the yard looking for their ball etc. trash in our yard etc. it would be nice if there were signs at the start, at every tee area etc. that’s simply say: leave the course the way you found it! Don’t leave any trace behind that you played this course. Fix yours and any other divots. Did you repair your divots? The sand does not rake itself- leave the course better than you found it. Etc. so put these signs at different places around the course. It is not expensive.. But maybe it makes people more aware and mindful. Maybe not. But if it gets 1 or 2 people to fix their behavior, then it was worth it.

- I would like to say the folks who do the maintenance on LV are the best. Hard working. Up early! Paying attention to detail cutting the t boxes cutting the greens , drying the t boxes and greens, and keeping the cart paths clear and clean. Chemical application etc. Keep up the great job!

Horsehockey...

I fix as many ball marks and see just as many un-raked traps in the summer as I do in the winter...

That would be great, but the signs shouldn’t be necessary. Simple common courtesy and respect shouldn’t need to be requested through signage. As my wonderful scuba instructor said, leave only bubbles and take only pictures.

Buy in at Oakland Hills was $250,000 with a 3 year wait list. Mandatory restaurant monthly dues $500, plus golf guest were $150 for 18, plus caddy fees. Females only allowed to play certain days.

Then the club house burned down, a new President will be taking over. Buy in will probably be the same, restaurant dues could be higher. When build is completed in 2 plus years.

All ball marks are repaired, and every trap is raked, of course that’s what the caddy does for you. Maybe TV could hire someone to rake and fix ball-marks, fee added to each tee time. That might wake up some.:popcorn:

I live on a championship golf course and have grown to hate golfers, which is sad. The bad ones set the tone, breaking my windows, golfing off my lawn, coming on my property to get their ball, digging through my shrubs, being obnoxious. You can contact the golf course but I do not see anything changing. People simply do not care. There is no more rule of law in our culture and no morality in our way of life. I am seeing people taking things into their own hands which is disastrous.

the only comment is the “raggedy” cups. that is not always caused by the retrieval of a ball… In FL, the old style Bermuda grass has lots of grain and when the grass is cut, the down grain side of the cup is pulled ever so slightly and you see ragged edges. Use this to your advantage as the ball will break more towards that ragged edge. the new greens like at RG and LV will not show that ragged edge.

I learned this from a YouTube video Bryson D put out on putting… watch at 5 min mark

https://youtu.be/uiR3KVG0SQU?si=Gaf-8LeOX82plAkn

Easy to handle that. PGA players can be exempt and as for guests they would be playing with a member that'd keep them educated on course etiquette so they didn't lose privileges.

I would also hazard a guess that at least 50% of golfers do not know how to repair a pitch mark correctly.
Judging by some of the 'excavations' perpetrated in the name of repair I have witnessed, leaving the marks is a better option, and causes less damage.

An observation from today on Laurel Valley. Have watched quite a few locals come by this morning- not rented carts- come through. And while they aren’t really doing anything wrong it just shows the mentality. The T box is literally 5 to 10 feet from the concrete cart path. Do they park their carts on the path? No. They park right next to the T box on the grass so they can walk 2 feet instead. Again it doesn’t really affect the play but it shows the mentality of taking every short cut possible which probably includes not fixing divots or sand traps. Oh well. So sad. Respect the course It is so simple 😢😢😢

Totally agree! The folks who don’t take responsibility for proper golf etiquette will be the first to criticize the condition of the courses! They always have and always will.

Remember, these are public golf courses. Anyone from the outside can play our courses. Therefore, how do you monitor their golf behavior on a course. Should outsiders be required to go to a golf school?

The tiered pricing and golfing conditions makes the value of golfing in the Villages a poor relative value for non guest outsiders given the alternatives. The majority of the golfing in the Villages is done by residents, who get less expensive green fees and enjoy the benefit of loading up their own golf cart in their garage and taking it to/from the course. Outsiders are not the root cause of the problem being discussed in this thread, it’s lazy and inconsiderate Villagers.

Outsiders ain't the problem.

:oops:

(nice first post on second sign-on)

About 250 rounds on TV Championship Courses in the last 2.5 years. Almost all, booked as a single.

I've yet to play with an "outsider". All residents, guests of residents or long-term renters.

I think you mistakenly posted this on TOTV. Didn't you know that everyone on this board rakes, fills and repairs? They also drive perfectly in a roundabout, never let their dog pee on someone else's lawn, stop at every stop sign, never drink and drive and tip everyone they run across $50 at Christmas. Did I miss anything?

Yes.

They don't let their dog poop on someone else's grass.

Rickey Craig
 

Does anyone know the telephone number or email of Rickey Craig, the guy in charge of all our golf courses?

Pleasantly surprised what great shape Glenview green are this week.

:BigApplause:

During Covid there were devices to raise the ball from the bottom of the cup which reduced cup damage. At my Summer course there are plastic baskets attached to the poles which take the ball out when the pole is lifted.
My girlfriend gets annoyed at me when I stop to repair too many ball marks on the greens because there are so many it really slows me down. Many of the marks are in locations that only proficient golfers would make so it is not just the learners doing the damage.