[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by Tomptomp

Gee wiz. I played Palmer yesterday and the course was in great condition. I teed off at 8:50 and I didn’t see any of the issues to which you refer. The greens, aprons, fairways, and bunkers were perfect.

Very few golfers in front of you. Played in the PM at Glenview on 11-9 and saw 5-6 un repaired ball marks on every hole.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by mpcolonel

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.

Un repaired ball marks, un raked traps do not only occur in the cooler months. They exist year round. In fact see less ball marks on the greens during the cool months since the greens are harder.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by rustyp

A real country club membership costs mega dollars per year. Live life like a millionaire on a retirement budget. What class of golfer did you expect to be playing here ?

Originally Posted by kkingston57

Even at real country clubs, 99% of the people fix ball marks, repair divots and rake traps. Was member of 3 before moving to TV. All 3 most members used the clubs carts and all had signs in them reminding people to rake traps, fix ball marks etc.

Looks like we are on the same wavelength here. If you belonged to a real CC you probably had $10K-$30K initiation investment and a requirement of $5K/year bar tab plus dues. I.E. substantial skin in the game. Not much skin in the game here in TV. Raise the rates - the courses will get less play, more recuperation time, affords higher quality of maintenance and more respect by those who do pay to play.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Tomptomp

Gee wiz. I played Palmer yesterday and the course was in great condition. I teed off at 8:50 and I didn’t see any of the issues to which you refer. The greens, aprons, fairways, and bunkers were perfect.

I guess it's all a question of expectations.

On a scale of 1-10, "10" being Augusta National, I'd give Palmer about a 5.5-6.0 yesterday. Mallory is a 5 this week. Glenview and TDS about 7 for the playing areas.

IMO, TV Courses are generally in the condition of a decent Muni course in the real world.

[Dilligas]

Originally Posted by Dusty_Star

Agree, I have always respected the courses I played on & so did the other golfers I played with & we were certainly not highly skilled. Do you think using the putter to retrieve the ball or trying to pop it out with the flag are due to arthritic knees? It is not something I had seen before. As to not raking a trap & so on, is that laziness? Ignorance? Entitlement seems a stretch, but maybe it is one of those three, depending on the golfer.

Don’t try to put lipstick on this pig! If you play golf, LEARN the rules, LEARN golf etiquette, leave the course, bunkers, and greens BETTER than what you found them. Not tough. If your knees or back prevent you from bending, get a suction cup or ball picker for the handle of your putter.

[Taltarzac725]

Why Are Golf Club Memberships So Expensive? (Top 10 Reasons)

Maybe they should hire some people to keep the greens looking good. And put them in some kind of armor so they do not get hit with balls while cleaning up after inconsiderate golfers.

They could advertise on the armor for local businesses.

[Lancer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

Food for thought.

[edtherock]

As a homeowner whose backyard sits on the LV course I watched the past 8 months the hard work, and listened to all the dump trucks and heavy machinery and energy the renovation team performed to rip this course totally apart and put it back together better than before. Months before it opened they were already aerating fairways and greens and leveling greens. They were getting into the maintenance mode. It was eye awakening and interesting to watch and record the processes. I got to say hi to an ambassador group on day 1. On day 2 I went to say hello to a group of folks that had rental carts so I could tell they weren’t villagers. They had no idea it was the first real day the course was opened. They would have no skin in the game of taking care of a course they would not play again probably anytime soon. As one person said- it is about respect and of course maybe some forgetfulness. I won’t complain. I for one fix any divots that I see when on the greens and any other issues that I have time to fix. I don’t mind helping out where others fail. There are many ideas on how to fix this but it is probably not fixable because some people just don’t care. I see it when they drive on our property. Walk around the yard looking for their ball etc. trash in our yard etc. it would be nice if there were signs at the start, at every tee area etc. that’s simply say: leave the course the way you found it! Don’t leave any trace behind that you played this course. Fix yours and any other divots. Did you repair your divots? The sand does not rake itself- leave the course better than you found it. Etc. so put these signs at different places around the course. It is not expensive.. But maybe it makes people more aware and mindful. Maybe not. But if it gets 1 or 2 people to fix their behavior, then it was worth it.

- I would like to say the folks who do the maintenance on LV are the best. Hard working. Up early! Paying attention to detail cutting the t boxes cutting the greens , drying the t boxes and greens, and keeping the cart paths clear and clean. Chemical application etc. Keep up the great job!

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by mpcolonel

It’s the snow birds that come here and don’t care because they’ll leave in 4/6 months and won’t come back until they have the courses back in good shape. We that live here have to play thru there mess.

Horsehockey...

I fix as many ball marks and see just as many un-raked traps in the summer as I do in the winter...

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by edtherock

It would be nice if there were signs at the start, at every tee area etc. that’s simply say: leave the course the way you found it! Don’t leave any trace behind that you played this course.

That would be great, but the signs shouldn’t be necessary. Simple common courtesy and respect shouldn’t need to be requested through signage. As my wonderful scuba instructor said, leave only bubbles and take only pictures.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by rustyp

Looks like we are on the same wavelength here. If you belonged to a real CC you probably had $10K-$30K initiation investment and a requirement of $5K/year bar tab plus dues. I.E. substantial skin in the game. Not much skin in the game here in TV. Raise the rates - the courses will get less play, more recuperation time, affords higher quality of maintenance and more respect by those who do pay to play.

Buy in at Oakland Hills was $250,000 with a 3 year wait list. Mandatory restaurant monthly dues $500, plus golf guest were $150 for 18, plus caddy fees. Females only allowed to play certain days.

Then the club house burned down, a new President will be taking over. Buy in will probably be the same, restaurant dues could be higher. When build is completed in 2 plus years.

All ball marks are repaired, and every trap is raked, of course that’s what the caddy does for you. Maybe TV could hire someone to rake and fix ball-marks, fee added to each tee time. That might wake up some.

[merrymini]

I live on a championship golf course and have grown to hate golfers, which is sad. The bad ones set the tone, breaking my windows, golfing off my lawn, coming on my property to get their ball, digging through my shrubs, being obnoxious. You can contact the golf course but I do not see anything changing. People simply do not care. There is no more rule of law in our culture and no morality in our way of life. I am seeing people taking things into their own hands which is disastrous.

[Janie123]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Played Palmer Cherry to Laurel yesterday, the first day LV was open after months of renovation. Conditions were great, fairways had decent grass, greens were running about 10-10 1/2, bunkers were great. However, turned to LV at 11:20 and noticed the following:

15+ unrepaired ball marks on each green
Dozens of divots not filled in
Half the bunkers with unraked footprints
The edges of the cups were raggedy.

At most 22 foursomes came before us

So, unfortunately, I'll give it 3 weeks, maybe less, before the conditions deteriorate to the level of the rest of our courses.

So the question is: When will our golfers learn that taking care of the course is everyone's responsibility, that there is no "entitled" superclass that need not rake, fill or repair. And stop sticking your putter in the hole to retrieve the ball or yanking the flagstick out with the ball in the cup. I wish we had cameras on every hole and institute a system of fines or revocation of golfing privileges for the offenders.

the only comment is the “raggedy” cups. that is not always caused by the retrieval of a ball… In FL, the old style Bermuda grass has lots of grain and when the grass is cut, the down grain side of the cup is pulled ever so slightly and you see ragged edges. Use this to your advantage as the ball will break more towards that ragged edge. the new greens like at RG and LV will not show that ragged edge.

I learned this from a YouTube video Bryson D put out on putting… watch at 5 min mark

https://youtu.be/uiR3KVG0SQU?si=Gaf-8LeOX82plAkn

[Eclas]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Wouldn't object to that either. It just seemed it might be difficult to tell Rory Mcilroy he can't play here with John Rahm, Scottie Sheffler and Victor Hovland until they all attend Good Golf School. And would Patrick Reed have held the course record at Havana if he had to go to school first? (Well, in his case, maybe golf rules school )

Then you get into the problem of guests---how do they qualify to play? My ex brother in law is head pro at a club in Mass.---he came down several times to play--did he need to go to school? And here's another Villages quirk----they only "comp" a visiting PGA pro once a year, after that, full price. I sure hope if Tiger decides he wants to come here often that he brings his wallet. Talk about cheaping out!

So it is a complicated issue. Like my father always aid, "You can't legislate morality"--or in this case golf etiquette.

Easy to handle that. PGA players can be exempt and as for guests they would be playing with a member that'd keep them educated on course etiquette so they didn't lose privileges.

[Two Bills]

I would also hazard a guess that at least 50% of golfers do not know how to repair a pitch mark correctly.
Judging by some of the 'excavations' perpetrated in the name of repair I have witnessed, leaving the marks is a better option, and causes less damage.