MIDI, Logic Pro, Swam Cello, MacOS question

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  #1  
Old 07-19-2021, 08:49 AM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Default MIDI, Logic Pro, Swam Cello, MacOS question

I am new to Logic Pro and MIDI.

I want to bounce (export?) a song I am working on to get an MP3 I can share online.

I created the score in Musescore, I then exported it as MIDI. I then loaded it into a track in Logic Pro.

I am then able to select my SWAM Cello v3.0 voice and adjust it the way I want it to sound with Vibrato.

However, if I play the song from the beginning (or bounce it) Logic Pro resets the Vibrato. If I set the vibrato and then start it playing in the second measure, the vibrato is not reset and it sounds good.

So, where do I look to find out WHY the vibrato is being reset when I play from the start. I don't want to put a bug report on Audio Modeling (Swam) until I am sure it is not something stupid I am doing

TIA.

Frank
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:42 AM
ctmurray ctmurray is offline
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I would check Reddit.com. There are lots of support subreddits for various software and hardware. There is an r/applehelp group that might know. And I suspect there are subreddits for the software you use.
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Old 07-19-2021, 12:47 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by ctmurray View Post
I would check Reddit.com. There are lots of support subreddits for various software and hardware. There is an r/applehelp group that might know. And I suspect there are subreddits for the software you use.
Thank you.

I found a convoluted work around, but still looking for a real solution.

Here is a screen recording with the audio looped back around to QuickTime

Sound of Silence Disturbed - YouTube
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Old 07-19-2021, 12:56 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Originally Posted by ctmurray View Post
I would check Reddit.com. There are lots of support subreddits for various software and hardware. There is an r/applehelp group that might know. And I suspect there are subreddits for the software you use.
Thank you.

I found a convoluted work around, but still looking for a real solution.

Here is a screen recording with the audio looped back around to QuickTime

Sound of Silence Disturbed - YouTube
  #5  
Old 07-19-2021, 01:37 PM
Tunesmith Tunesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
I am new to Logic Pro and MIDI.

I want to bounce (export?) a song I am working on to get an MP3 I can share online.

I created the score in Musescore, I then exported it as MIDI. I then loaded it into a track in Logic Pro.

I am then able to select my SWAM Cello v3.0 voice and adjust it the way I want it to sound with Vibrato.

However, if I play the song from the beginning (or bounce it) Logic Pro resets the Vibrato. If I set the vibrato and then start it playing in the second measure, the vibrato is not reset and it sounds good.

So, where do I look to find out WHY the vibrato is being reset when I play from the start. I don't want to put a bug report on Audio Modeling (Swam) until I am sure it is not something stupid I am doing

TIA.

Frank
Hi Frank,
It's been MANY years since I played around with MIDI, so my thoughts might be totally obsolete for the current state of MIDI equipment and software!
Maybe first, you could explain what your equipment and software are?

Musescore: Is this the digital music authoring software, for writing traditional music scores?

Logic Pro: Is this the digital recording software, consisting of multiple tracks that contain MIDI data, recorded sound files, samples, etc.? You would use this to mix and edit all the tracks into the desired format and sound?

SWAM Cello v3.0 voice: Sorry, totally unfamiliar with this, but I'm guessing it's a MIDI sound module?

You mentioned that you could set up the SWAM to provide vibrato, but when starting the track from the beginning, the vibrato would disappear, right? If this is the case, I'm thinking that there needs to be a MIDI command that is 'programmed' into a track in Logic Pro that will tell the SWAM to add vibrato to the voice. I may be blowing smoke here, since my MIDI days were long ago. But if I'm even close to understanding your situation, let me know and maybe we can puzzle this one out together. Of course, as someone previously suggested, you could get onto a User Group forum for Logic Pro and pick their brains. That might be a quicker solution than waiting for me to sweep out the cobwebs...
Good Luck either way!
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Last edited by Tunesmith; 07-19-2021 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Removed extra text.
  #6  
Old 07-19-2021, 02:09 PM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunesmith View Post
Hi Frank,
It's been MANY years since I played around with MIDI, so my thoughts might be totally obsolete for the current state of MIDI equipment and software!
Maybe first, you could explain what your equipment and software are?

Musescore: Is this the digital music authoring software, for writing traditional music scores?

Logic Pro: Is this the digital recording software, consisting of multiple tracks that contain MIDI data, recorded sound files, samples, etc.? You would use this to mix and edit all the tracks into the desired format and sound?

SWAM Cello v3.0 voice: Sorry, totally unfamiliar with this, but I'm guessing it's a MIDI sound module?

You mentioned that you could set up the SWAM to provide vibrato, but when starting the track from the beginning, the vibrato would disappear, right? If this is the case, I'm thinking that there needs to be a MIDI command that is 'programmed' into a track in Logic Pro that will tell the SWAM to add vibrato to the voice. I may be blowing smoke here, since my MIDI days were long ago. But if I'm even close to understanding your situation, let me know and maybe we can puzzle this one out together. Of course, as someone previously suggested, you could get onto a User Group forum for Logic Pro and pick their brains. That might be a quicker solution than waiting for me to sweep out the cobwebs...
Good Luck either way!
That’s, yes, Musescore is a program that lets you author scores. It has a built in synth so you can listen as you write your score. It is as good or better than many professional programs, but is free.

Logic Pro is Apple DAW (digital audio workstation). It also lets you author score, but much more. It is expensive and very complex, I normally use Musescore to create the score, an Logic Pro to play the midi, since Logic Pro has more options and the synth sounds so much better.

Swam is a line of digital software instruments that work in most DAWs, you can assign a “audio unit” as they are called, to any track, then the track is played using that instrument instead of the default built in instrument.

I think in the case of the AUs the settings are handled locally to the AU and don’t need to be triggered by the MIDI engine. The are a lot of things Swam is doing on its own, if you look at the video and listen, you can see in the swam control panel there is a visual indication of the vibrato on the cellos string. You will notice the vibrato starts only if a note is sustained. So Swam is deciding if vibrato is to be added dynamically. The setting, shown on that control panel, sets that magnitude of the vibrato, but the AU decides when to apply it.

Does that help? I think you are right, I think that Logic Pro is sending a CC (MIDI message) to the instrument, Swam, telling it to reset, and never telling it to turn the vibrato back on. I would like to either tell it to not reset it, or to figure out how to tell it to turn it back on at the appropriate setting.
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:34 AM
maggie1 maggie1 is offline
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Default Sound of Silence

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
Thank you.

I found a convoluted work around, but still looking for a real solution.

Here is a screen recording with the audio looped back around to QuickTime

Sound of Silence Disturbed - YouTube
A very pretty version of the song.
  #8  
Old 07-20-2021, 07:38 AM
Tunesmith Tunesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
That’s, yes, Musescore is a program that lets you author scores. It has a built in synth so you can listen as you write your score. It is as good or better than many professional programs, but is free.

Logic Pro is Apple DAW (digital audio workstation). It also lets you author score, but much more. It is expensive and very complex, I normally use Musescore to create the score, an Logic Pro to play the midi, since Logic Pro has more options and the synth sounds so much better.

Swam is a line of digital software instruments that work in most DAWs, you can assign a “audio unit” as they are called, to any track, then the track is played using that instrument instead of the default built in instrument.

I think in the case of the AUs the settings are handled locally to the AU and don’t need to be triggered by the MIDI engine. The are a lot of things Swam is doing on its own, if you look at the video and listen, you can see in the swam control panel there is a visual indication of the vibrato on the cellos string. You will notice the vibrato starts only if a note is sustained. So Swam is deciding if vibrato is to be added dynamically. The setting, shown on that control panel, sets that magnitude of the vibrato, but the AU decides when to apply it.

Does that help? I think you are right, I think that Logic Pro is sending a CC (MIDI message) to the instrument, Swam, telling it to reset, and never telling it to turn the vibrato back on. I would like to either tell it to not reset it, or to figure out how to tell it to turn it back on at the appropriate setting.
I think there might be 2 approaches to solving this issue:
1. This is the one we initially agreed upon, which is that we have to figure out how to send a MIDI Control Command (CC?) to the SWAM sound module to 'tell' it to turn on the vibrato.

OR

2. Set up the SWAM module so that whenever the Cello voice is selected via MIDI, the Vibrato is already enabled by default.

Would approach #2 be possible?
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2021, 09:12 AM
GrumpyOldMan GrumpyOldMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunesmith View Post
I think there might be 2 approaches to solving this issue:
1. This is the one we initially agreed upon, which is that we have to figure out how to send a MIDI Control Command (CC?) to the SWAM sound module to 'tell' it to turn on the vibrato.

OR

2. Set up the SWAM module so that whenever the Cello voice is selected via MIDI, the Vibrato is already enabled by default.

Would approach #2 be possible?
I have set up Swam's defaults to having the vibrato set where I want it, and that doesn't help.

I am fairly certain the issue is Logic Pro is sending a "default" setup to AU's when it starts (as opposed to continuing, which makes sense). And one of those initial parameters is a modulation message (which is what Swam says controls the vibrato).

So, I THINK the solution is going to be to set up what Logic Pro calls "automation" which is a kind of sequence? of messages sent to the MIDI (Swam) while playing.

I have an Air Synth (Roland AE-10) which if connected to my Mac allows me to play in real-time via the Swam AU and sound like a cello. The AE-10 has options to control the vibrato with lip pressure. This tells me that Swam can be told to turn on and off the vibrato by external messages.

SO, I am learning about "automation" and going to try that. Another advantage of automation appears to be that it can control all of the parameters of the Swam AU.

I was kind of hoping that I could just set up defaults in Swam and dump MIDI scores into Logic Pro and have it all just work, so I could quickly set up pieces I am learning.

If I have to set up automation on each piece it is not the end of the world, and it will result in better-sounding playback.

Here is an example of how Swam sounds when properly tweaked (compared to my default demo).

This is NOT Yo-Yo playing this is a MIDI version of audio over his video. It is freaking amazing.

Camille Saint-Saëns
  #10  
Old 07-20-2021, 10:48 AM
Dan9871 Dan9871 is offline
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Automation is just a kind of programming. Typically it is used to control other programs.

BTW Stream Deck is a popular, specialized, keyboard add-on for running automation from buttons, sort of like making a custom keyboard . Notation Central has Stream Deck presets for Musescore. I haven't used them but the ones they have for Sibelius are really good.

You can use Stream Deck automations for MIDI too. It sounds like you are pretty familiar with MIDI so you might find that helpful too. There are a bunch of articles on how to do this but there is a link to one below.

Notation Express Stream Deck Profile for Musescore - Notation Central

Amazon.com

Make your own Elgato Stream Deck. This post outlines how to make a… | by InternetJohnny | Medium
  #11  
Old 07-20-2021, 09:52 PM
Tunesmith Tunesmith is offline
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Hi Frank,
I just did a quick internet search on "how to set up a midi sound module with logic pro".
Right away there were several hits that explained how to use logic pro to set up the MIDI devices. Maybe try checking one or more of those links out?
Good Luck, and let us know your results.
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